The end of the touring segment...?

[@Fractal379]

Thank you.

[@fuzzy883]

I live in Saskatchewan Canada where we have wide open spaces and lots of wind. I used to ride a Harley with only a windshield and although I did enjoy it and rode it all over Western Canada right to the ocean several times, the open prairie really beat you up. Back in the early 2000s I used to admire the look of the ST1300 but never owned one. A couple years ago I purchased a 2003 ST1300 with 150,000 km on it .... and man was I amazed. I was concerned about the high mileage but several people I know who are over 300,000 km on their STs allayed my concerns. The bike is an absolute gem for the long rides in rough conditions. For an old school bike I find it a dream to drive .... power range is shockingly broad throughout the full range of gears, it's silk smooth at high speeds and bucks the wind like nothing I have experienced and it makes 200 km non-stop runs easy. It's a heavy bike, but you would never know it and it corners amazingly well. To appreciate this you have watch some of the videos of ST1300s on track days. Myt biggest complaint is that I am constantly in danger of speeding tickets as this bike loves 120 to 130 km/hr. I hope that the touring segment comes back again one day when riders get over themselves and don't need to play the tough guy getting the hell beat out of them in the wind. At 64 I last much longer on rides than my much younger friends on their adventure/sport tour bikes. Thanks for the great review.

[@ireneuszpyc6684]

American brands sell EXPENSIVE baggers, with proper wind protection, but your 150k kilometres Honda is much cheaper; no need to bash Harley; rich guys will continue buying EXPENSIVE American baggers, while you & me will search for bargains like Honda & Triumph

[@bobbaker9395]

I own one bought new in 2004. I love it! Windscreen up, helmet visor open and a nice quiet ride is yours…..fantastic!

[@a.r.t.4611]

I concur. I've in New Zealand and hVe owned A Pan 1300 since 2010. Now has 126,000k on the clock. Not much matches it either on shortish rides or touring. I say the ST stands for Super Tourer. Earlier this year, I toured the South Island for 3 weeks. The bike was a faultless mile muncher. 😁

[@Johnclark300]

Anything is better than a Harley, Honda build the best motorcycles on the planet, Harley Davidson are famous for building a junkyard dog that always break down and overheat. HONDA build their machine with precision mathematics. I have never owned a Harley and never will, I have a HONDA ST1300 and I don't need anything else.

[@thedownwardmachine]

My C14 is rock solid in the wind. I can ride lighter bikes in the wind, but high speeds and gusty winds with tight traffic can get hairy. The Connie just powers right through it.

[@roberthampton8682]

Thanks for the video and your thoughts on the ST1300. I've seen many of the folks @ ST-Owners leaving their ST1300s/ST1100s for Adventure bikes, some of them have come back. I myself, bought my first ST1300 in November 2005, and sold my V45 & V65 Sabres because the ST1300 was what I had been looking for since I started riding back in 1971. Because of commuting in SoCal for so many years, I found that the ST1300 was not only a good bike to tour on, but a great bike for doing (for last 12 years before retiring) my 125 mile a day commute. After putting 174.3K miles on my first, I bought 4 other ST1300s, three that had been wrecked and I got them road worthy and then put miles on them. I just couldn't see having a need for any other bike. This last year I did a couple of long distance trips, and doing 500 miles in one day is not that hard to do. I currently still own three of my ST1300s, a 2012, 2010 and a 2004 (that I've been slowly working on to get it back on the road). All in all, I have over 396,000 miles on these five ST1300s, and to this day, I doubt if I'll ever bother spending money on a different bike. (As long as I can manage them, that is, after all, I'm 70, so who knows how many more years I can do this. ;) ) Again, thanks for this video! (And your others!)

[@kevinroberts2395]

I agree with you 100%. I owned an ST1300 for 15 years, so I obviously loved it. Now in my mid 60's, I found the static weight was becoming a challenge. I am very disappointed that NO manufacturer now makes a mid-weight proper touring motorcycle. I would have loved a 900cc proper touring machine. I don't like the look of the Adventure Tourer styling. I'm not interested in any off-road capabilities. I wish that Kawasaki would put the Z900rs motor into a touring frame. At my age I want comfort and good weather protection in a mid size machine. The BMW RT is still too large for my needs.

[@SusanWillan]

That's what happens to a lot of us baby boomers I'm 65 in August and own an 06 FJR I'm worried about the day when the weight becomes an issue it would be great if they made a sports tourer in an 800 or 900cc

[@prepper_nation_h]

What about the Yamaha Tracer 900 GT? It is very well reviewed and that 900cc triple is reported to be a gem of an engine. Although it doesn't fill the exact same niche as these old school touring bikes, people seem to think it will tour quite nicely. And it's very lightweight, if being able to manage the weight is a primary concern. Also not mentioned here is Honda's NC750X. Although it was born from the adventure touring trend, most everyone I know says it's most definitely not a true adventure tourer but is a very comfy basic touring bike for the street. It has a few of those quirky Honda features that they love to experiment with, like a storage compartment in the place where most bikes keep their fuel tank, right in front of you.

[@mattthomson1689]

Very generous compilation with pictures! Many of the bikes you show remain available at reasonable prices, provided one allows for DIY and professional labor to ensure reliably safe riding. Would love to ride those Euro roads, after I get my fill of the American highways and byways.

[@chiefpepdesign]

True. You mean available in the used market right? I focused on the fact that the brands stopped producing them though. But offcourse, you will find lots of them used or with very few milage in the showroom.

[@sparkypdx]

@@chiefpepdesign in USA I believe that Yamaha is still making the FJR 1300. More rounded on the nose now. $18,000 USD

[@jwagner1993]

That's why I'll never sell my ST1100. My next purchase will be a Triumph Trophy, and that's it.

[@SusanWillan]

IV seen triumph trophy's 1200 with over 350 thousand kilometres

[@tonysargent1699]

very much appreciated, your opinions help us with our own choices. thankyou for sharing.

[@spila123]

2y ago your video convinced me to get my license and I bought an st1100 as a first bike. 25k (km's) later, I don't regret it one bit. She's getting old now, and share your struggles in finding a suitable successor.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Great to hear! 🙏

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Buy a used ST1300.

[@alexsandovallapostol9998]

Congratulations on another brilliant analyses ! Great presentation !

[@bobnelson2499]

I just bought a ST1300 2007 model with only 5000 miles, and love it. I sold a 2020 Harley Electra Glide to make this move.

[@normandduval8472]

Thanks for this video. I guess I will keep my RT for another 12 years...Only had to change the oil and one break pads kit in 12 seasons...Looking forward for your video about BMW.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Here’s what happened. Everyone wanted a sports tourer. Companies made lots of excellent sports tourers. Customers bought them. The market crapped out because the bikes were so good and last 150k+ miles. Basically the bikes weren’t going obsolete where they could sell more!! Limited customer base too. Market saturation….

[@im_crusty_two]

The new Goldwing should be up for consideration. It's not that far off the ST1300. It has a shaft drive and full fairing which the NT doesn't.

[@chiefpepdesign]

I know... I like them to. But, they are a different league...

[@tonkool4736]

Ik dénkkk...dat je gelijk hebt en dat het erop lijkt dat het tijdperk van de grote toerreuzen ten einde lijkt. (Hopelijk níet!!). Ik ben dól op die grote toerjongens. Heb zelf o.a. een Honda ST100 en twee Yamaha FJR1300's gehad. Ik vond de Yamaha's persoonlijk superieur. Helaas werkt het fysiek niet langer mee, dus ben ik na 25 seizoenen nu ex-biker. Snif... 😞 Eén troost rest: gelúkkig hebben we nog B.M.W. 🙂

[@fredkriek539]

Happy new year! Great video 👍

[@a.r.t.4611]

I've ridden the NT1100. After owning my Pan, I'm not impressed. The NT has a rough engine compared with the Pan. Panniers can't take a full face helmet. You have to get off the bike to alter the screen. It's chain drive; the front mudgaurd is useless; and the seat height is to high for my 30" leg. Also the colours are bland. ☹️

[@a.r.t.4611]

Love the exhaust note of the Pan. Sounds like a food blender on steroids😜

[@thedownwardmachine]

I rode only adventure bikes before getting a C14 a few years back. What a bike! If you don't go off road, it does everything else awesomely. I still have a smaller adv bike for highway-to-dirt, and if I could only have one bike maybe I would not have both, but I can. I think once many adv riders realize they never ride dirt, they'll get back into the sport tourers, just like how Harleys were uncool until they got rediscovered.

[@kihestad]

I guess adventure bikes / dual sport bikes are the big thing nowadays (disclaimer: I might be biased 😁). They are more versatile than the 'big bulky' touring bikes. It would however not surprise me if the touring segment gets a comeback some time in the future. Interesting video well put together 👍

[@chiefpepdesign]

I think exactly the same! My feeling is there could be a 'counter trend'. Let's just sit and wait...

[@ireneuszpyc6684]

@@chiefpepdesign not only BMW GS & other ADV selling now: there's also the hipster trend - scrambler, cafe & bobber (this is what Triumph is betting on); the hipster bikes replaced big cruiser bikes

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@ireneuszpyc6684 These 'hipster bikes' were there for a little while but didn't really settle in. Think of the Kawasaki W800 and Ducati Scrambler. Triumph always had those bikes in their line-up and if you ask me are the true originals. If they will replace heavy touringbikes...? I don't think so. And as you allready mentioned, they are more like fashion statements rather than serious long distance tourers...

[@ireneuszpyc6684]

@@chiefpepdesign hipster bikes replaced big CRUISERS (not big touring); big cruisers declined in Europe just before the hipster craze

[@froglaps40]

I picked up a kawasaki versys 1000 with the full set of bags. I think it's dang near perfect tourer.. very comfy, with the upright seating. I added a bar riser, lowering kit (damn shirt legs), an engine gaurd with highway pegs.

[@DavidR8]

For me, the biggest issues with the current crop of bikes is that almost none of them have decent weather protection like and ST1300 or an R1200RT and none of them have decent pillion seats. My partner can fall asleep on the back of our ST1300 or an RT. Good luck finding a decent bike like the ST1300 today. If the NT1100 was brought to North America it would have sold I think. The Versys1000 is a close fit to the NT1100.

[@Papawcanner]

I’m 77 and think ST 1300 is the best touring bike ever produced . I would love to see a smaller version of the 1300 . At 77 it’s getting a little heavy .

[@kencarrcarr3751]

Hi I own a 2015 ST1300 and a 2020 HD Street Glide 114ci Special and I love both bike's however the ST1300 is a keeper it's the ultimate can do anything anywhere tool.The engineering quality of the ST1300 is simply astonishing I think Honda stopped making them because they were just to expensive to make.

[@michelod.i.y.5202]

Enjoyed watching 👍

[@bartman49]

Honda actually had a couple of "baby touring" bikes that you didn't mention. The first was the PC800, or Pacific Coast 800 as it was known in N. America. It existed parallel to the ST1100, and I feel it was killed off by the ST. I had one, by the way and really liked it a lot, but the tupperware fairing started to self destruct. Another was the "Deauville 700" which you briefly mentioned in passing. I agree that the loss of the touring bike is unfortunate. I also owned a Beemer RT1150 and a K1200LT for awhile. The 1150 was nice but it developed mechanical issues that were just too expensive to fix for an older, depreciated bike. The K1200 was a "heavy tourer" like the Goldwing, and has of course been replaced by the K1600LT. Once at speed, it felt like a ST1100, but it was a pig at very low, parking lot speeds. In a couple of years, I managed to drop it six times at 0 mph. Never any damage but embarrassing to my ego.

[@chiefpepdesign]

I love the PC800. Really had an image problem. They called it a 'rolling chemical toilet' here in Holland... It never was sold officially in Holland. Don't know in Europe. I think it especially was produced for the American Market. The Deaville had the PC800 engine I believe (not a 700cc). That was a big succes here in Europe.

[@bartman49]

I looked it up on Wikipedia. While the Deauville was powered by a liquid-cooled V-twin, like the PC800, the first model NT650V was 650cc and the second model NT700 was a 680 cc motor. They had more traditional side panniers that had a unique pass-through from one side to the other for longer items. The PC800 had a single trunk lid that opened like the boot of a car. It was actually very useful, but also non-removable. I went to the darkside with my PC800 and put 10,000 miles on a car tire with barely perceptible wear before I sold it. I would do it with my ST1100 in a heartbeat if the conversion were easier. Unfortunately it's hard to find a car tire that fits inside the swing arm and it requires some machining to make the wheel fit with the bigger tire. It may be easier with an ST1300.

[@moastreet]

Hi from Spain. I love ST1300 Pan-euro but is heavy for me and my size. NT700 Deauville is lovely but itsn't a full fared. The Kawasaki or Yamaha Touring bikes I feel are closer to sport Touring than Touring but are ok. I feel we need a new Pan-European but lighter on weight for small size people😅. I found a CFMoto 650TK and is a pretty interesting alternative but has a 650cc engine with not too much power so..😢 but is sweet to look at because remember a ST1300 at the front. Thanks for your vídeo and I really agree with you.

[@andrewwebb4512]

Fantastic video, the first BMW adventure bike was the R80GS

[@chiefpepdesign]

I know. But that bike had a typical off road front wheel size of 21" like other 'paris Dakar' off road bikes. The bike change and 'segmemt shake up' came from the GS with the 19" front wheel. That was the chance I was talking about.

[@Jagshemasher]

I live in Canada and the North Americans basically split touring motorcycles into two categories - sports touring bike and cruiser touring bikes. Sports-Tourers are basically Honda ST, Yamaha FJR, Kawasaki Concors and the BMW RT and K series bikes. Cruiser-Tourers are basically the 45 degree V twin tourers, Indians, Harleys and the Japanese V-Twin equivalents. The Honda Goldwing doesn't really fit neatly into either of these although it is probably more cruiser than sport. I think you are spot on with the current crop of ADV bikes - I think people like the idea that they can go off-road but who really wants to ride a 200-250 kg bike off-road. BMW . . .I have owed their cars and still have one and completely identify with love hate relationship. They are fun cars to drive but they are over-engineered and expensive to fix when things break which occurs a lot more frequently than with Japanese products. Enough to say that my experience with BMW cars is enough to keep me away from their motorcycles.

[@chiefpepdesign]

And what is the difference in your region segment wise between a GSX-R 1000 and a Hayabusa or ZX-10 and ZZR 1400?

[@Jagshemasher]

@@chiefpepdesign - those are bikes that don't really fall neatly into any one category. If I had to define them I would classify them as "bragging rights" street sports bikes from an era were the objective was to get as much acceleration and/or speed as possible in a straight line. I think these types of bikes are losing their relevance these days (hence being dropped from line-ups) as they are not as good on a track or twisty roads as slightly less powerful but significantly more agile true sports bikes (BMW S1000RR, Yamaha R1 Ducati, Aprillia) and they are not as good for touring as the more purpose built touring bikes. All these types of bikes require a decent amount of disposable income to purchase especially the Harley's, Indian's BMW touring bikes and the Honda Goldwing and for that reason tend to be bought mostly by older people such as myself but in North America speed limits are typically 55 - 70 mph so exceeding that for any length of time risks a significant fine or worse. If you exceed 150 kph in Canada the police can and will impound your vehicle on the spot and charge you with stunt driving. Get convicted of that and its a 1 year driving ban plus $$$$ insurance once you get your licence back. I am at an age (61) where quite honestly I don't care about having a bike with 200 HP that can do 180-200 mph because riding (or driving) fast for long periods (especially the way people drive in North America) can be very tiring and stressful. I would rather set cruise control at 80 - 120 kph (depending on the speed limit), enjoy the view and the ride itself. Any bike with 80-100 HP fits the bill so provided the bike is relaxing to ride I don't care how much extra it has. I ride an FJR1300 which has more than enough power for me but I bought it because it can cruise absolutely effortlessly all day two up with gear (plus proven reliability). I like Harleys and Goldwings but only for long distances - a bit large for around town. I would say that bikes like the Haybusa etc. are now being replaced by a new generation of "hooligan bikes" . . . various streetfighter type naked bikes.

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@Jagshemasher Ok. But do you agree that the touring (ST), Sport Touring (ZZR), Super Sport (ZX) is therefore not that strange of a segmentation? Clip ons means Sport, straight up seat means pure touring. BTW I worked for many wholesalers/importers and this is what we also received for our communication from the brands (plus if we received the sales figures per segment).

[@Jagshemasher]

@@chiefpepdesign - for sure I would say seating position, handlebar height and foot peg position define the bike's intended purpose . . . usually upright seating + full fairings = touring oriented. The issue is none of these things are clearly defined . . how much fairing is a "full fairing" I own both an FJR1300 and a Ninja 400 right now. Both have fairings and a windscreen but they are very different machines. I would rather tour on the FJR any day of the week but for ripping it up on a racetrack the Ninja 400 is a way better bike. Not all bikes fit neatly into a given category. When I was 18 I had an RD400 Yamaha that was classed as a "sport bike" by virtue of its light weight, manic acceleration/powerband and nimble handling even though as stock it had a very upright seating position. Back in those days (late 70's early 80's) pretty well all bikes were a more "traditional" design (e.g. Triumph Bonneville T100) and we modified our bikes ourselves to suit our particular needs rather than buying a "factory ready purpose built" so if we wanted to make them more sporting oriented we fitted clip/ons (or drop style handlebars), rear sets and expansion chambers. If we wanted more "touring/long distance orientated we fitted either a windscreen or a full fairing (Vetter were a big name), added a rack and panniers/top box. On my RD400 I tried dropped handlebars but for 95% of my riding I was leaned too far forward which hurt wrists and neck so I went back to normal. I had a rack and some throw over panniers so I could "tour" on it. Bikes like the Haybusa and ZZR1400 were built primarily as speed missiles. This doesn't mean they cannot be used as sport-tourers if kitted out appropriately but for anyone who's primary objective is touring there are probably better bikes out there - although if you can pick up a used on for $6000 and add your own panniers and make other small modifications as required you can have a very effective touring bike for the fraction of what a Gold Wing costs. At the end of the day it boils down to personal choice and priorities and those change over time. In North America there are a lot of people who drive large pick-up trucks (or at one point Hummers) who do not need large pick-up trucks or a military style vehicle because they simply want one but trends change over time. Nowadays station wagons (estate cars) no longer sell well and have effectively been replaced by SUV's (in every size and style from Compact to Humungous). This has been quite a missive but to summarize there are some bikes that clearly fit a specific category and there are others that don't - they lie somewhere between two categories . . .manufacturer's will build them as long as they continue to sell in enough numbers and once they don't they are gone. Even the venerable VW Golf is no longer sold in Canada (except the GTI and the R)

[@GarysnewYT]

@@Jagshemasher I believe both of you left out a lot of details in your conversation.

[@Bikerguy5845]

Just watched your video yesterday on bare bones wiring!!

[@MrCrazeDawg]

I have 1190 Adventure currently and have to be fair now after 3 years I am looking into touring bikes, as 1190 for long ditances is not as great as it should be. I tour 600km a day alot from NL to Belgian Ardennen or German Eifel and back, 300 of wich are on highway, and 1190 just plain sucks on highway speeds over 100km/h (read buffeting, noise etc). Great in twisties, but before you arrive there you will already dont like to go for another ride :') plus chain maintenance is meh. So for me next bike I want to go for is full on touring bike: big screen/shaftdrive/low&cheap maintenance.

[@MrHans1963]

ik probeer de wegen te herkennen.... Bekend terrein. 😀 Je hebt helemaal gelijk over het tour segment de X modellen verkopen als een malle. Das jammer

[@bezpredelas]

Great video !

[@milolabrett6549]

The way I’m reading into things regarding Touring segment of the European motorcycle market. Is that it boils down to Euro 5 and future Euro 6 emission regulations V4 and Inline 4 exceed these rigid standards. European market is so large that manufacturers are building global models and they will follow European Market. Now as you illustrated Honda has been dancing and dabbling around since they discontinued ST1300 and in a lot of cases some of the models mentioned were never available in North America or very limited. ST 1100 and 1300 had a major global franchise, as did Yamaha with FJR 1300 with very subtle cosmetics and bells and whistles. Now Honda did come out with F6B Gold Wing, stripped down version of Gold Wing in 2013 flat six bagger. The year they discontinued ST 1100 1990 to ST 1300 2013. Most of my Peeps run HD Road Glides or Road Kings and I get major respect running through High Mountain passes of The Canadian Rockies with them. Lets those who ride Honda ST 1300 to either lead or lag. It doesn’t miss a beat climbing and I rarely apply the brakes descending into corners on the way down, just let that V4 run the show with the gears. I have after market two Brothers pipes and they tell me to go up of down, they are the music that I listen to.

[@chiefpepdesign]

It's nice and interesting to read and notice how (our) cultures differ. We don't like loud pipes for instance. Especially on the ST we love the silent sound but knowing the potential that we have to in the engine if we need it. Same goes for the Harley's. We rarely see the big baggers in Europe. It's mainly German or Japanese brands we see here. But hé, that's what it all makes so interesting right?! 👍

[@milolabrett6549]

@@chiefpepdesign The aftermarket pipes aren’t loud but they do give V4 a defined growl.

[@theoracleprodigy]

Always thought the adventure bikes were ugly. Some of them are looking better now. Still not as flowing as touring bikes. I know they weigh less are more versatile. I'm getting a concours tomorrow. My roommate has the vstrom.

[@xresp1405]

I have a Triumph Tiger Sport 1050 , 2015 model , it is a great bike but I really like to buy the Honda ST 1300 , no matter if it's an older bike than mine, the other bike I'm interested is the Yamaha FJR 1300, but the ST would be my best choice.

[@mcrand7887]

Honda Gold Wing, a touring bike is still in the market since 80's. What are we currently witnessing is that the market is flooded with adventure touring bikes.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Yep

[@SusanWillan]

Are these ST 1300s have a similar engine to the VF 1000 Honda V four or the VFR 750 and 800s

[@chiefpepdesign]

All are V4 engines. But basically, that's the only thing they have in common. For the rest the engines are so different in tuning that you can't compare them.

[@JohnDoe-mh8tm]

This adventure fad is hilarious. 99% of these guys NEVER hit the dirt. Touring will come back.

[@xlv-lw2ts]

Me ha gustado tu video y estoy de acuerdo contigo, solo apuntar que Honda ha fabricado desde 1998 la Varadero xlv 1000 hasta que apareció la crostourer....y creo que es una gran moto, a medio camino entre la africa y la nt....y con un gran motor en v.....Saludos desde España.

[@chiefpepdesign]

¡Claro, estoy de acuerdo contigo! La Varadero es una moto genial, pero sigue siendo una moto de tipo todo terreno, no una verdadera máquina turística como yo lo entiendo. Sin embargo, la NT que Honda está produciendo ahora podría ser una evolución de la Varadero. ¡Gracias por tu respuesta!

[@dennism1919]

Interesting video. It's obvious you are not aware of the market in the US. You will not ride a finer touring machine than my Victory Vision. But I am getting old, and my back is pretty much done, so my 900-pound baby has been retired. I now ride a 2017 Triumph Trophy SE, and let me tell you, I will have this bike until I can no longer ride. This bike has speed, agility, velvety smoothness, amazing range, unmatched comfort and a feature set that creates an incredible riding experience. I am not sure why so many riders took the bait of the ADV bike. I totally agree with you that 99% of ADV bikes never see the dirt. And that is fine. People should ride what they want to ride. For me personally I think ADV bikes are hideous and would never own one. Sport touring bikes, or touring bikes as you call them, have always been the bikes I have been drawn too. I think this segment has morphed into something else, and the manufacturers are bringing the Tracers, GSX-GTs, Ninja-SX and so on to the market to represent it. That's fine I suppose, but I still prefer my Trophy.

[@idcraw]

Put 185K KM on my ST and sold her still running like new miss that model . Bought an FJR close but different.

[@AndyMorris-L666]

One thing your not taking into consideration, that many of us have to, is consideration for a pillion passenger, i have owned GTR'S X2, FJR'S X3, ST1300 x1, but the one i have stuck with is the Triumph Trophy, why?, because it is the one my wife likes the best on the back, she says it seems to give her the best leg room, I loved the GTR'S awsome power, and the FJR'S linear power and that great turbine like whine it has, but if you can find one, the Trophy se is the hidden gem of the pack pound for pound ..

[@chiefpepdesign]

If you ride often with a passenger, that's indeed really something to take into account.

[@sippinga.wiskey5664]

Great video. Just picked up a 2008 ST1300 ABS which is my second ST1300. I put 103k miles on the first one and mistakenly sold it. I believe Honda stopped ST1300 production due to the release of the redesigned GL1800 and did not want the competition in the touring segment. Cheers

[@chiefpepdesign]

Thanks for your comment. In Europe the GL isn't that big. A real icon for sure! But that model is only 10% of what was sold in numbers of the ST. So it really was an image thing... Nevertheless, we mis the ST...😔

[@a.r.t.4611]

They stopped production because the engine didn't meet Euro 5 regs and more riders were jumping on adventure bikes.

[@beardannyboy]

They're called sport touring to differentiate them from touring cruisers like the goldwing.

[@toineleuverink9905]

It's very true that the segment is almost vanished. And I still don't get it. This is such a logical segment if you look at the way we drive most of the time. Way back, as a motorbike mechanic, I drove the very first Pan European in the Netherlands from Ridderkerk to the dealership where I worked and it was immediately awesome. I was Impressed! Nowadays, after many many bikes I drive a BMW K1600 GTL but to be honest: I want to go back to a Goldwing, which I had a few of too. That is the real touring segment left. For now, I am struggling for a while to find a successor for my girlfriend's Honda Silverwing GL 650 D. There is literally nothing to find that can replace it. Please help me on this!😉 The low seating position, the full fairing, the luggage capacity (as we go on longer trips). There is no replacement to find on the current market. Nothing there...and yes, we tried the NT700 but it didn't work. Way to high seating position, even with the saddle professionally lowered and the boots with thicker soles and heels. And no..she is not near to being a dwarf. Anyway...thank you for addressing this problem and hopefully manufacturers will pick up the message!

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@toineleuverink9905 perhaps a Pacific Coast?

[@toineleuverink9905]

@@chiefpepdesign Thank you for thinking along. 🙏🏼 Yes...we looked at that PC too. But...hmm....just look at the GL 650 D and then at the Pacific Coast... That is no progress.

[@curtn7076]

Good observation! I love riding my St but I wouldn't want to tour long distances over 1000 mile trips because it only has 5 gears. Going over 80mph seams like the rpms are just too high. I'm considering the vstrom 1050 to go across country soon. But I'll hang onto the ST for short trips , getting groceries...

[@marktwain..1972]

Hah! Yes, there it is. Cheers.

[@RayLombardi]

Hey, found your channel by chance and I love it! But you haven't uploaded anything for a long while. Are not making videos anymore? Are you coming back soon? Thanks, Ray from UK.

[@chiefpepdesign]

I am still here ☺ There will be more video's in the near future. I want to test some more bikes and perhaps there will be a new project in the near future. Stay subsribed!

[@carsyoungtimerfreak1149]

Spot on! To me adventure bikes are the SUVs of the bike world. They are as ugly as many of the SUVs... To me the yardstick is a police force. These are true professional riders in all weather and often under difficult circumstances. They mostly use touring bikes. With good reason, for example excellent weather protection. If you ride all year, perhaps with the exception of days with snow fall, weather protection is a must. To me for everyday use adventure bikes are juist as pointless as supersport bikes.

[@stevencoop9594]

Just bought a 2024 FJR.They are still making them!

[@chiefpepdesign]

Probably built in 2020 but registered in 2024. In 2020 Yamaha announced the end of production for the FJR.

[@zyzzyx3160]

​@@chiefpepdesignNo, still being made and sold in the US.

[@miles-thesleeper-monroe8466]

Mate I followed your original cafe racer build good stuff. You ask what's happened to sports touring bikes. Head's up. None of us will be free to ride any motorbike in 10 years time. The corporate controlled powers that be, especially the EU, are already drafting legislation to make this happen. All under the climate change con while the rest of the world is building coal fired power stations at the rate of 100 per year, we'll be on geolocated pedal power. Our passion is being engineered out of existence before our very eyes. You can't grow your own food any more because cows fart, how do you think motorbikes will be justified when they move onto that? Here in the UK we broke free we thought but we are still adopting these German dictats and we know how thorough the Germans are given enough power. Wake up bikers ✊️

[@solidsnake3861]

mine fjr 2002 has 50,000 miles and could change it maybe for a newer or gtr kawa

[@garycrumrine9538]

It is unfortunate that you had problems with the GS to the point where you are absolutely against them. However if I recall the story, it was one bike, Not exactly a trend. Considering the sheer numbers produced and sold, it is logical that like all things mechanical, you are bound to have a few that have issues. Judging by the rabid enthusiasm that owners have for their bikes, it would appear they are happy. I agree that the GS has cut into the traditional Touring bike segment for the stated reasons, but disagree that they are not true offroad bikes. The results in the Pari-Dakar over the years might disagree with that. I am certain you are thinking I am a BMW owner. Yes I am. I just took delivery of a new 2023 R1250RT and absolutely love it. This was a replacement for a Yamaha FJ. I also had a police version of the Honda ST1300. The dealer made me a hell of a deal because they could not sell it. He did take the police lights off of it, and it was a good bike, but it too had systemic issues. Fork seals being one of them. Without the top box, the handling issues were resolved. I also agree that touring bikes are alive and well in the BMW dealer showrooms. I am now saving for an RS to add to my collection, and I will follow that up with a GSA.

[@thepetlamb]

GT bikes are viewed as 'Old Man' bikes and Adventure bikes are seen as more 'aggressive' looking or whatever.. But personally I think adventure bikes are almost universally ugly, and would never buy one. They are also much more of a compromise than a 'built for purpose' touring bike. Like the urban SUV cars, they appeal to people who want to look far more adventurous than they ever end up being! As a VFR800 rider, my eyes are on the Triumph ST1050 for my next bike..🤘

[@EshanAnjanaLiyanaarachchi]

Never heard you mention about the Goldwing though.....

[@chiefpepdesign]

I do mention it in this video. Can't remember where. That's also a different type within the touring segment. That's more of a ultra luxery tourer... I try to point out that these bikes (which I point out in this video) all are ending...

[@Mickey_Bauer]

Honda Gold Wing and BMW K1600 would be touring bikes IMO and ST, FJR and Concours would still be sport touring but i get your point.

[@chiefpepdesign]

I know names are different in America vs the rest of the world. I always wonder if a FJR is called Sports touring: then what is a Kawasaki ZZR 1300 called opposed to a Kawasaki ZX-10?

[@kleuverj]

I would put the goldwing and the BMW in a different class, the luxury touring segment. Yes, they are about smooth gobbling of kilometers, but they are so heavy and luxury, that they do not appeal to the 'daily' tourer. One element of a true tourer is, btw, a cardandrive.

[@didiernoltincx7027]

J’ai aussi un ST 1300. Très chouette moto ! Pour moi sa seule remplaçante pourrait être la nouvelle Honda Goldwing. Hélas, cette Goldwing est beaucoup trop chère pour la grande majorité des motards. Donc, acheter un ST 1300 en occasion est une excellente idée. Bonne route à tous 🎉

[@Jonasegway]

Well call them "Sport tourers" because they are sport bike based but setup for touring. Alternatively, they can be ridden like a sport bike but also ridden like a touring bike. Which is why although not common but not super rare, sporty style riders who enjoy both styles of riding will take their "sport tourer" to the track for track days. I don't see me doing it, but there is a group of people who do. A "touring" bike cannot handle like a "sport tourer" which is why they are simply called "Touring" bikes. They are typically more comfy then sport tourers because they are dedicated designed touring bikes and not some "hybrid" setup like a sport tourer is. What I love about sport tourers is they typically have more range and arent tiresome to ride long distance. I wouldn't even mind an ADV bike for "Grand touring" style riding but they simple don't have enough range. I truly Honda just kept the ST's formula and continued to build on that long kawa and Yamaha did. With my riding style at 1000-1100ft, I typically stop for fuel around 340-360miles and usually only add 6.4-6.6gallons targeting 65-75mph cruising speed depending on the speed limit on the open road. I am sure it would be hard finding a bike this reliable that would give me this kind of range. Not to mention, for $2300 @33kmiles on the odometer (after trading in my 09' burgman 650 for it). Taking long distance tripa with this ST is a breeze and I truly enjoy not having to stop every 200-250miles for fuel during those looooong stretches of boring interstate (Kansas/Nebraska).... I also enjoy not having to worry about fuel when I am out on those beautiful 100-300mil3 scenic loops. I can truly just enjoy the ride and not worry about fuel or needing to dedicate a stop because my bike is thirsty. I just wish Honda kept up with that ST. I'd love to see what a 2023 ST would look like.

[@chiefpepdesign]

And how do you can a ZZR 1300 or a Blackbird?

[@Jonasegway]

@@chiefpepdesign those two bikes aren't sport touring bikes at all. Those are just sport bikes with speed in mind more specifically. A sport touring bike would be a bike that is a sport bike designed specifically as a touring bike. So like my ST1300 for example. It has a full fairing, adjustable windscreen (a typical sport touring bike feature), shaft drive, upright seating position and a few other things that aren't on the ST1300 but are on other specifically made sport tourers like..... Cruise control, heated grips and seats. Sport touring bikes also come with side bags. They aren't bagless bikes that you can buy a kit for to add bags to. The Kawasaki GTR and CONNIE 1400 are sport tourers. It's like saying a sport bike and a touring bike had sex and made a baby. There are different segments of sport touring bikes also like the vfr 800 is like a mid tier sport touring bike. You also have naked touring bikes. There are also different segments.

[@carbservice666]

Awesome vid!!

[@harmaanrajmadon7010]

The reason Americans call these "sport touring" vibes is because you can corner them. Americans don't expect their touring bikes to corner.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Aha... Wow. That's interesting yet strange to hear. But I can imagine of most of the roads are straight instead of corners.

[@Jp1970-pw1ld]

Old man bike whatever…I’m getting a fjr.

[@Jodyrides]

personally speaking. I’ll tell you what happened to the big touring bikes. I tried three of them. They are rolling ovens. I couldn’t ride one of them.. I know what would happen if I bought one. I would end up not riding it unless the temperature was below 60°.. I love the concept, and I love the bikes. Hate the unbearable heat. funny thing, Moto Guzzi Norge is in this category of sport touring, single-sided swingarm, heated grips, electric windshield, fantastic brakes, light, and great handling, motor as reliable as a sledgehammer, but, it is air cooled. In spite of the air cooled engine, the heat coming off of that is not a problem unless you are sitting in stop and go traffic on 85° day.. I had a Norge for 14 years. Just sold it in 2021. The heat was never an issue. It’s them big radiators on those high horsepower four-cylinder bikes that is the problem..

[@chiefpepdesign]

Norge is a great bike! To bad the ground clearance never was really good...

[@MALBACHinc]

I believe the trend of sport touring will come back. The tall touring proportion will evolve to the lowered proportion again in years. Just a matter of time before the china brand build these segment. The kawasaki gtr maintained the same for years as it is the ultimate sport touring with no contenders from other brand. Bmw rt keeps getting better and better. As for me, the was a time when i thought this segment wasnt cool. But now im keen towards soort touring as it sits between the big k16 and goldwing, with the gs confort and the soorty super looks.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Which China brand do you mean? 🤔

[@MALBACHinc]

@@chiefpepdesign zontes, qj

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@MALBACHinc interesting. Never heard of that brand.

[@MALBACHinc]

@@chiefpepdesign yeah, some got er6 650cc parallel enjin with bmw rt looks and proportion. It does open a new door of cheaper more affordable bike, with good quality. These brands mentioned are (some assebled) sold in malaysia. 😄

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@MALBACHinc I rather pay some extra for a well known brand with a good track record in quality... But I guess that's personal.

[@Tiesemans_one_in_ten]

Honda Germany ... Are you paying attention?! Put together a worthy ST1100 successor ASAP! You guys created the ST icon .. Honda Japan (from 2002 onwards) didn't even come close ... So I call upon you to do the right thing. Police forces around the world are waiting for your ultimate (and reliable) Beemer police bike killer. Honest motorcycle cops dislike the Beemer R1250 RT enough to want to switch asap and especially the ones that actually drove the ST1100 policebikes are heartbroken up this very day. Sure Sure the ST1300 is a wonderful more modern bike and many ST1100 owners are happy to have switched to the ST1300 (better cornering), but I dare claim there are still more active and happy ST1100 owners/riders then there are ST1300 owners/riders. So no the Goldwing (Bagger) is not the answer, and the NT1100? Common guys what a joke, what an insult it is. The demand for a(nother) legendary ST is there, the money is there (trust me on that). You guys worked miracles 32 years ago and with modern day metals/design techniques and R&D capacity it should be a walk in the park. If and when police forces worldwide embrace it, you have your cash(cow) homerun. One side note .... ST bikes such as the ST1100/ST1300/1400GTR/1300FJR/Triumph Trophy SE need to be made sexy again through and by the community. People who bought the Honda ST1100 when it was first released were mostly motorcyclists age 35 and upwards. Skilled, experienced riders with cash and (enough) knowledge of what money could buy. Nowadays the (mostly ignorant) 35+ year old (and upwards) who buy a new bike rather buy a fancy adventure Beemer (brand sensitivity) or a Tesla car (again brand sensitivity). :S And new bike buying youngsters nowadays mostly love to buy a fancy naked or racer and ride it short distances ... and they believe a ST bike and it's atmosphere isn't sexy at all. To me that kind of biased mindset is mind-blowing because their kind of sexy (to me) is not relevant (enough) to deter me from buying a ST(1100).. To me it's all about the (conformable & safe) journey and reliability ... I would be surprised to find a new 1300cc Pan-European introduced based on a upgraded VFR1200F/X which has a shaft and will be updated for Euro5 and slot in between the NT and the Goldwing. Fingers crossed.

[@Babybugex]

I subbed.. I do own a st and a k1200lt.. The BMW is nice but I am the one that works on it..Little known fact BMW stands for.. Bulds Motorcycles Weird.. LOLZ

[@bobbaker9395]

I think adventure bikes to a certain extent have filled in this segment

[@chiefpepdesign]

Indeed

[@bcbragg705]

Kawasaki made the GTR until this year. Latest model is 2022 in north and south americas.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Not in Europe...

[@OzBloke]

Expensive to buy and maintain, therefore too small a market.

[@vinjofin1972]

Tja het tour segment lijkt te zijn doodgebloed. Helaas. Na een hoop crossovers te hebben gereden en nooit een korrel zand offroad gereden te hebben, rijd ik inmiddels alweer 2 jaar op een BMW r1100rt uit 2000. Dat ding is bijna bullitproof en ontzettend betrouwbaar en gemakkelijk te onderhouden. En natuurlijk zijn er wel eens dingetjes maar dat had ik ook met mijn Kawasaki gtr1400 en diverse Vstrom motoren. Zolang het kosten technisch binnen de perken blijft is het prima te doen. Ik rijd plm 25k per jaar op de motor en moet zeggen dat mijn oudje dit goed volhoud. Ook ik vind het jammer dat er niet echt meer een keuze is in dit segment. Jouw Honda is een dijk van een motor en zal je nog ver brengen. BMW zal altijd wel een tour motor houden omdat vele overheidsdiensten in de wereld deze motoren gebruiken. De KMAR is ook op BMW overgestapt omdat Yamaha de fjr niet wilde doorontwikkelen naar Euro 5 en 5+. Er is nog genoeg keuze op de 2e handsmarkt, nu nog. Ik zit wel te kijken naar een andere motor en die van jou maakt een kans, maar zit ook naar een hogere te kijken, dit ivm mijn knieën (relaxter zitten Yamaha SuperTen).

[@chiefpepdesign]

Inmiddels al weer overgestapt 🙈 kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3mnpZ6Vab-NiNUsi=XKJRtAxBNVEdTdTV

[@vinjofin1972]

@@chiefpepdesign Heb het filmpje al gezien. Hoe bevalt deze vwb zithouding ten opzichte van de Pan? En dan met name de kniehoek.

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@vinjofin1972 Beter. Je knieën zitten eerder 'in de weg' bij de Pan dan bij de RT.

[@joelbatistazq]

Sorry but theres something I don't understood here, When you talk about the Tracer and Versys you have doubts about the segment of this bikes, then when you talk about the NT1100 you said this model its a good alternative for touring bikes. Well, the NT1100 (who came very late to the market) its a "copy" of the Tracer and Versys.

[@chiefpepdesign]

It's in line with the trend but has way more fairing, a bigger front and is more touring oriented. The tracer and Versys are more of a very modern 'SUV' if you ask me... It's just my opinion. Not the obvious truth or something.

[@gsoni79]

Now it's adv culture and everyone is emulating their design.... Doesn't make sense to me

[@sefikx1453]

Hello From Sakarya Türkiye. İ like video and i like you. Thank you for your all information. Thank you! İ want to ask you ihave a st 1300 and i want to protection bars around. Do you know about anything? Thank you

[@chiefpepdesign]

I don't know what protection bars are...?

[@filibertkraxner305]

Prima video. Maarree.... ben je de Honda Goldwing niet vergeten? Ok, erg duur, maar nog steeds in productie hoor 😉

[@chiefpepdesign]

Dat is geen Touring Bike zoals ik beschrijf. Dat is een 'league of it's own'. Dat vertel ik ook in de video meen ik.

[@filibertkraxner305]

@@chiefpepdesign Heb ik gemist dan. Sorry. Je hebt wel een punt.

[@fredkriek539]

Still have your ST1300?

[@chiefpepdesign]

No sold it for the Moto Guzzi V85. See my other video on this bike on my channel!

[@fredkriek539]

@@chiefpepdesign ok No disappointment with your ST1300 experience ?

[@chiefpepdesign]

@@fredkriek539 Well, I had an electrical issue which was very strange. The fuelpump quit working. Since I am pretty ok with wiring I could make a bypass and solved the issue. But if there is one thing I hate is problems with these kind of bikes. They just need to work 😊. But, other than that, the bike is one of the best I ever had.

[@mowtoll]

adventure bikes is not for me, touring or sport touring is what i are intresded of. i think the touring segment will come back soon

[@-Primer-]

You can buy a 2023 or 2024 FJR today. Still make and sell them.

[@chiefpepdesign]

No. These are 'overstock'. They don't produce them anymore.

[@rabbidbabies4094]

BMWs are too expensive and I dont want to have to climb a bike every time I want to to ride. I wish the full faired tourers would come back.

[@omit7989]

Volgens mij is het vooral het styling aspect. Sexy lines sell better.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Klopt zeker ook. Een modeverschijnsel.

[@BluesShed]

The FJR1300 is still in production now 2024 not all is lost

[@chiefpepdesign]

As far as I know in 2021 Yamaha stopt production of the FJR... If there are still bikes available, those are left overs of around the world...

[@BluesShed]

@@chiefpepdesign Mate they are Yamaha are still advertising brand new 2023 FJR1300s in Australia on their website MY23 Ride away price $33,999.00 which means they must have data plates indicating manufacture of 2023 Does my head in I bought the first 6 speed version that was registered in NSW in 2016 still have it waiting to see if a new model in on the horizon or buy a new moto guzzi 100s Thanks for your video I enjoyed it Cheers

[@michaeldobson8859]

How can you hate the BMW R1250RT? They have done it longer and better than anyone and Honda just cant compete because they have become inept. Instead of improving the ST1300, fixing a few simple flaws in the bike to make it better Honda just dumps the bike, like they always do. BMW engineering is proving itself to be the best in the business. Since the R1200 engine they have been killing competition. Only Ducati and Triumph have been able to step up and compete. Honda misses the mark every time.

[@chiefpepdesign]

I love the RT! Almost bought one myself. Why do you think I hate them?

[@Jp1970-pw1ld]

Fjr is still here

[@chiefpepdesign]

Great!

[@andrzejszary1193]

ST 1300 1000000km

[@hlpang1075]

Too big, too heavy, takes extra effort to corner and too expensive. I went back to something light, fast and nimble.

[@chiefpepdesign]

Light, fast, nimble and no fairing 😉

[@gsoni79]

Best things never last, silly marketing gimmic

[@marktwain..1972]

Honda NT1000

[@chiefpepdesign]

NT 1100...

[@marktwain..1972]

@@chiefpepdesign I was not in the part of the video when you mentioned the NT1100. LoL!

[@middlehot]

St 1300 discontinued because too much people die bad wobble at high speed fjr and concours 14 are better

[@chiefpepdesign]

I mentioned that topic.

[@billfrater1948]

Correct is Sport Tourer...ST

[@igorodicki2991]

SUV-limuzin same