Children of the Guru - Loss of Identity within the Rajneesh Cult ~ with SAM JAHARA

[@RaptorSeer]

Children treated as adults, work as worship, control over sexual practices of the followers - so many similarities with other cults and high control religious groups. I'm glad to hear she's a therapist now, because we need more like her. This shows that any belief framework that allows for a power hierarchy can be prone to cultism, including the Eastern meditative traditions. Thank you for your work in exposing the harm in these groups.

[@Rolando_Cueva]

Even traditional religions are hierarchical. The Catholic church for example has the Pope on top, then the bishops, and finally regular priests.

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

@@RaptorSeer big cults to are hidding sexual abuse Buddhism is very popular but is a dangerous cover for this sickness This is well known to people in my line of work who are cleaning up a tiny speck of this problem

[@KunjanChauhan]

i would suggest that excessive sexual activity was not controlled. People were not forced into orgies. They enjoyed them...!!!

[@Sigi-456]

I was a sannyas kid and grew up in predominantly sannyas share houses. For me It was a wonderful loveing environment. My experience was not of neglect but quite the opposite. We had lots of freedom and attention too, there was always an adult arround if my parents were busy. Like an extended family. There were regular dance parties, dinner get together, trips to swimming holes and it was generally a really happy social environment. There was also a lot less alcohol than amongst the general population which was nice as a kid. The meditations were a drag because us kids thought it was borring when all the adults went and sat quietly for an hour but that was the worst part so thats a pretty good childhood in my opinion.

[@Ippogrifus]

❤

[@Merlina7]

Interesting how her description of "gurus", which she professes to know all about, bears a similarity to exactly what psychotherapists claim to be able to do - trust them and hand over your money and they will solve your problems and change your life... Osho mentions in one of his discourses about how psychotherapists are now becoming the new priesthood, and I think that's about right And also, I notice there are ads underneath her video for some Christian group - maybe that's who's sponsoring her videos, or at the very least they're getting to advertise via this content.

[@sheilaoreilly6826]

A bit of a reach... It's about the Influence Continuum. Are they a force for good or bad in that person's life? As outlined by Stephen Hassan. What's the cult organised by psychologists? I've heard others argue that they are getting children and teenagers involved in transgenderism by affirming them in their gender identity. As if children aren't able to make decisions for themselves and their own identity. They sign off on gender surgery for those teenagers to save them! That's not being a guru with a saviour complex, that's called life saving affirmation!

[@Merlina7]

@@sheilaoreilly6826 Actually I agree. The elephant in the room here is that not only do "children" who are transitioning into adulthood make choices, they can also be rebellious and headstrong! Psychology and psychotherapy is not considered a cult because it is accepted by the establishment. However if members of a so called cult with the necessary medical expertise carried out gender transitions, for the same reason, the WHOLE movement would then undoubtedly be branded as a cult of "transgenderism" abusing kids by forcing them to change gender to fit with some kind of religious doctrine. And in fact psychology and psychiatry is shaped and underpinned by certain belief systems, particularly around what is considered normal and what is considered a mental illness. At one time a woman who had sex before marriage was considered to be mentally ill. And being gay was also treated for a long time as a psychiatric illness. One of the major influences in sociology was Michel Foucault, whose experiences were shaped by being a gay man at the time when being gay was considered a mental illness. He came up with a classic sociological theory based on what he defines as being the 'dominant discourse' within any culture or Society. It's what is considered normal and what becomes do-able and say-able. What is and isn't considered a cult certainly has major implications.

[@gemmalogan8649]

WELL SAID........Couldn't AGREE MORE......more people in the World today have woken up to, as Osho stated "The whole HISTORY of RELIGION stinks........" followed by....... "man exploiting man in the name of GOD..."....In EVERY SENSE of the word, NETANYAHU has committed GENOCIDE with the U.S. GOVT's FULL SUPPORT..............all of the WEST actually.....& to hear Netanyahu come out with what he has, all based on RELIGION........HE HAS CREATED HIS OWN CULT !!!!!

[@spiritof6663]

​@@sheilaoreilly6826 If you really believed that children (we're talking sometimes as young as 5 years old here, but even with young teens it's highly problematic) were truly able to make decisions for themselves and their own identity then you wouldn't be against a 12-year old girl willingly sleeping with a 35-year old sannyasin in one of Osho's communes, would you? But of course that's not OK, and if that's not OK, then neither is letting a child decide if something as huge and potentially dangerous (just ask those who detransition) as transgender surgery is right for them. There are even those who are advocating gender transitions for 5-year old boys who impulsively blurt out that they want to be girls! I'm not against some older teens (17-19) and full-grown adults deciding to have such surgeries, but to force them on young children is horrendous abuse IMV.

[@spiritof6663]

I find it fascinating that about half the comments here are from people who also grew up as children in the movement yet had very different experiences, ones far more positive, and defend Osho/Bhagwan here. Count me as another one--my mother was a sannyasin who spent time in the Pune ashram in the 70s yet she was a completely responsible parent who came back to the US and raised me and my sister in the most loving and attentive way possible, all while revering Osho. In my extensive research I find that there is no one common "Osho experience"; it encompassed thousands of people who all had wildly different experiences on all places in the spectrum. I do feel really sorry for the children who experienced any kind of pain or abuse at the communes but (and forgive me) but I feel like that's the personal responsibility of their parents or of the predators who were there at the time, not Osho himself who certainly never indicated implicitly or explicitly the abuse of children, nor do I think had any knowledge of 35-year olds sleeping with 14-year old girls at his communes. I also find this lady's complete dismissal of his teachings really insulting. I'll bet if you asked her to go into more detail, she wouldn't be able to tell you one thing about his teaching; she simply places her personal bad experience as some kind of evidence that the teaching itself must be garbage. In doing so, she completely invalidates the positive impact thousands of people have received from his discourses and (very powerful) meditations, which is probably why you're seeing so much push back from those people in these comment sections. You can't simply tell someone who was made happy and whole by Osho's teachings that they've only been duped and brainwashed by a charlatan. She must be a terrible psychologist!

[@gilbertobarrantes9672]

Completely agree. The feeling of abandonment must be terrible, but the way of the victim is far more painful in the long run, I sense the deep pain. It is hard to place the responsability in oneself, but when done it is so gratifying, in my experience so far, doesnt matter the pain, always gratifying.

[@anakelyc.5814]

Exatamente isso!! ela foi abandonada... e coloca culpa em Osho.

[@Sundarpushpaji]

Gurus in India are not considered cults and Osho’s message is about finding your own internal freedom through meditation anyways. She thinks dad had a crisis to go to Osho as if he had no freedom of choice as an adult. Lastly if she listened to the hundreds of Osho discourses and practiced some of Osho’s meditation she may not be stuck on this childhood issue anymore. She seems quite stuck and unhappy, so opposite from us Osho sannyasins. Vamos meditar juntas!!😊

[@Merlina7]

I was and still am an Osho Sannyasin, and spent time staying and participating at Medina, the commune in the UK that Sam mentions. I can see that it was difficult for the kids whose parents chose to join the communes at that time, as it meant they were there not by choice. It also means they simply don't have any experience of the toxicity of growing up in the 'normal' world. As I recall, lot of the "self absorbtion" of the adults was an attempt to de-program the conditioning their parents and education had imposed on them. I think leaving the commune kids to their own devices wasn't necessarily lack of care, but a naive belief that it was best to give them freedom and not impose anything on them. In a way it was just a variation of what happens with each generation: where the parents try to compensate and not do to their own kids what was done to them, - which can sometimes mean going to the other extreme. And Sam loses me completely once she starts making a whole load of statements about the movement, and about Osho, that are clearly just repeating what she's heard second from other people, rather than speaking from her own experience. I was present when Osho was speaking at Rajneeshpuram, and was stood just a few feet away from him at one point during 'drive by' when he stopped to give a gift to a kid. It was very clear to me that he had no attachment to the material wealth that surrounded him, nor was he interested any kind of self aggrandisement. I saw someone totally living and responding in the present moment, whose whole energy was just a continuous outpouring of love, and whose only concern was in sharing his insights. And this wasn't based on any kind of worshipping or putting him on a pedestal or seeing him as a god. For me it was seeing what the absence of any ego looks like: what impressed me the most was how ordinary he was, even in a situation of being surrounded by so much material wealth, and so many followers.

[@Hellomyfriend87]

Leaving the commune kids to their own devices unfortunately was an act of pure selfishness and no over-compensation. I have alot of love for the community (which I am still intouch with), Osho's Teachings and had a great time in India, but letting a three year old child run around on their own in India is alittle over the top. Just a couple of weeks ago I said to my mother in a slightly accusatory voice: "You let me run around in India on my own at three years old!" She said: "Thats not true!! You were two years old!" I dont agree what is said in the video, but we all should look at every perspective - even if it hurts.

[@spiritof6663]

I really disliked Sam's description of the adults in the commune as being "self-absorbed" simply because they worked all day. Work isn't "self-absorption". Work is dedication, hard labor, and only gratifying in the sense that you accomplish something good as a result, not because it's super-fun and indulgent to do. If the sannyasins were ignoring their kids by laying around the couch on heroin all day long, sure, that's self-absorption. Working 12 hours a day is not. Should they have paid attention to their kids more? Yes. But the lack of attention was clearly not a product of self-absorption, it was something else.

[@Hellomyfriend87]

@@spiritof6663 from your comments I feel like we are pretty much on the same page. My point was not about the work though. I feel like many parents left their children run around on their own because they wanted to experience their guru. While it might be understandable to a certain degree, it still is selfish - no matter what they were doing with their time.

[@spiritof6663]

​@@Hellomyfriend87 Oh, there's no question that the parents should have spent more time with their kids, no matter what else they were doing. I was simply taking exemption to Sam's saying their hard work was "self-absorption". As for the sannyasins wanting to experience their guru, that was absolutely certain--and that's because Osho seemed to give off very powerful spiritual energies and vibes that no-one could explain, feelings of eternal bliss or ecstatic energy (ie. like during the energy darshans) that they found addicting. The only problem was, they were supposed to take that kind of energy and then start developing it on their own, rather than constantly relying on it to come from Osho like some kind of drug. My mother actually did, she was able to give a very powerful shaktipat after a while.

[@Hellomyfriend87]

@@spiritof6663 working hard for a community contradicts self-absorption in itself. As long as the intentions are selfless and not for a higher grace from the master. My father told me stories from Oshos apartment in Bombay, where he had a room and how Osho came to him and did Shaktipata sessions with him. He actually said the amount of positive Energy and bliss he felt scared him. His story sounded very impressive.

[@bonnycoombe4685]

Thank you so much for this perceptive, level headed and helpfully informative conversation. I'm a child of a former sanyassin, although my mother left the cult before having children, and I have an enduring fascination with the legacy of the sanyassin experience on its followers and their relationships. Very grateful to you for making and sharing this video.

[@robertlyons2731]

Osho was a spiritual genius who offered a unique multi-dimensional vision to the world. You have defamed a beautiful man and completely misstated and mischaracterized his approach to life. He attracted hundreds of thousands of people to drink from his cup of wisdom. He lived 95% of his life in quiet solitude and certainly never abused any of his followers in the way you suggest. There is no doubt that many of his followers made mistakes just like so many unconscious people do. You could substitute the name of any spiritual master (Jesus, Buddha, etc.) and mistakenly attribute to them the sins of their human followers. It's a sad fact of the human condition that people prefer to blame others for their own failure to take responsibility for the circumstances they find themselves in. It's unfortunate that people like yourself offer "help" which only perpetuates a "blame game" Physician heal thyself

[@BITTER-TRUTH-H]

U want a 6 old yr child to defend herself.....I think u too are from those who sells rajneesh shit and eat too

[@spiritof6663]

I agree with what you say here. Osho did have sexual relations with some of his female disciples but they were completely consensual, and anyone bringing up the "power differential" argument is being disingenuous. He really did spend most of his time in solitude and in later years was far too ill to be fooling around. I also feel like some of these people, like the person here, love to blame Osho for things other people did to them, just because it happened in his communes. Any large movement of tens of thousands of people, especially one with a 'free love' tag, is going to unfortunately attract predators. The Catholic church has systemic child abuse on an order of a hundred times more prevalent and systemic than the Osho movement yet I'm sure the so-called psychologist in this clip isn't ready to tear down the entire church--but she IS ready to trash Osho, even though most of his followers claim great benefits from his teachings/meditations and certainly have never gone near a child.

[@kennedyseamus]

Guaranteed: there was much you didn’t see. Rajneesh was the source of this entire teaching and organization. As such, even if it cannot be legally proven that he abused children, there is too much sexual abuse testimony to declare Osho and his worshippers blameless. To dare to position yourself as a representative of the Most High, and to create an abusive organization is a pretty harsh crime in and of itself.

[@gilbertobarrantes9672]

beautiful expression

[@ZooZ-q9q]

​@@spiritof6663 lol never had sexual relationship with other woman you should ask the woman first than comment

[@kaes7041]

I don´t think children should be brought into any kind of "full time" spiritual community. You should join such a group only in a state of intellectual maturity after a profound spiritual exploration of your mind and soul and in full consciousness of what you want to accomplish there. Osho himself did not advertise for children being in the Ashrams, he even advised the sannyasins not to have children. As for parents to join the movement he kind of left it to their own responsibility, maybe because he considered it cruel to deny them admission altogether. I know some people who are part of the OSHO movement and almost all of them are very warm, insightful, kind and tender souls, so I have problems seeing sannyas communities as a vivious and destructive cult. There were grave mistakes being made (Oregon, the way people were made to hand over their entire fortunes, the way critics were dealt with, the way homosexuals and HIV infected people were dealt with and others). But when I meet people who came into contact contact with Osho/Baghwan now, they generally appear to be spiritually advanced and insightful people so there must be some benefits in taking sannyas that can not be denied.

[@spiritof6663]

Most of the really 'wrong' things that happened in the Osho movement happened in the early-mid 80s in Oregon and in communes like Medina. In other words, while Sheela was in charge. The minute she left, the movement stopped doing crazy criminal stuff and has been scandal-free to this day. I mean, not a single charge since 1985. And yes, every sannyasin I've ever met has been nothing but warm, kind, and empathetic toward me. The sannyasins who run an online Osho store would even send me free books I never ordered, that they thought I might like.

[@anahatamyst]

She is obviously still feeling quite bitter and resentful about her childhood upbringing. And it is possible that she experienced a sense of being deprived and neglected by her parents. But to put the blame for this onto Osho is quite ridiculous. Osho had nothing to do with her upbringing. He was teaching enlightenment, in his own unique way. Just because her parents were perhaps not very successful in balancing their spiritual aspirations with their parenting duties, doesn’t mean that Osho was a fake guru or a charlatan. These are completely separate issues. I was also a sannyasin of Osho. It is obvious to me (and many others) that he had attained a state of spiritual awakening. That’s the main reason we were attracted to him. It was not a cult. There was no brain washing. We were there voluntarily, because we wanted to be. And most of us gained an immense amount of very valuable guidance and insights from him. And continue to be grateful to him…

[@Hellomyfriend87]

Children were not welcome in the sannyas community. I grew up in india and us kids were only allowed into the ashram for 1 hour per day. Thankfully i had Great friends and nannys which spent the rest of the day with me and I have very positive memories of that time. We snuck into the ashram whenever we could and Even osho talked about us as Little Rebels. My father was one of his First Western folIowers in his small apartment in Bombay. I agree that he was a master with valuable wisdom and teachings. But it was only partly the parents fault that many children were neglected. He himself stated that Children stood in the path of enlightenment. Hence we had very little time with our parents and that aligns directly with his teachings. He gave the parents guidance and the children were left to themselves, because of him.

[@spiritof6663]

@@Hellomyfriend87 Kids weren't welcome in the sannyas community precisely because Osho no doubt foresaw that what he was setting up for was best only for adults, and he wanted to avoid the very scandal of children being exposed to adult behaviors. There really weren't many children at Rajneeshpuram, a *very* small percentage of the overall population compared to any other town.

[@Hellomyfriend87]

@@spiritof6663 I completely agree. But those who wanted children and the „Osho experience“ pretty much had to neglect them to a certain degree.

[@gavinscott1512]

You weren't there you idiot

[@gavinscott1512]

Brainwashed fools

[@lenahamster1525]

Thank you. Very informative.

[@dhyanishvara]

Ya gotta love the story of how miserable she says she was.. Then photos of kids playing, laughing, smiling and enjoying life

[@linisleo]

And is that meant to mean something? It was an awful experience for the kids.

[@johnmaynard3989]

Lots of dream here along with a sprinkling of truth. Rajneesh was no 'ordinary' man but quite extraordinary abd capable of upliftment of these open to him and his teachings. Medina was entirely separate from Rajneesh and definitely not under his control. It is shocking what happened to some of the children, absolutely no doubt on that facet, but this popular drama currently is missing most of the point, insude this facile 'journalisn'.

[@majorkade]

Many liberals laugh at evangelicals, but then fall for such ridiculousness. Critical thinking and humility are needed. And even then, we're all capable of being fooled.

[@peterneal6492]

im looking forward to the look into the cult of christianity islam and the many others and also the cult called society goverments and multi corparations

[@Ippogrifus]

Same haha ❤

[@john-r-edge]

Another excellent talk. Question for Mark. In terms of arranging interviews, what is the ratio of those interviewees who you approach vs those who seek you out.? Anyway keep up the good work.

[@TalkBeliefs]

It seems to be almost 50/50. :-)

[@ivarhakuse8572]

An eye opener of a presentation. It makes me wonder how this is possible in our age, the age of information. And how these kinds of cults are so easily set up in our age, how if much easier it would have been around 1500 years back when mohammad was around or when Christianity was invented. If truth be told, and im not gonna lie, but rajneesh spread his ideas through his talks and books. Whereas both christianity and islam were state sanctioned ideologies with political motives for control and subjugation which were spread through violence and deception. It's only because they've established themselves for so long that we need to tolerate and put up with them in our lives so much.

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

Absolutely...well said...buddhism is the same you know. Currently having been sold and soked up by the gullible westerners also...The problem is 'information" is only thought based/intellectual lacking our own lived sensory experience. Repeated heard or used over and over to induce thought based experiences such as meditation TECHNIQUES do, it causes the feeling of knowing, predominately due to familiarity built up through repetition. ...hypnosis or brainwashing. So information is still influence where as our own lived sensations at leats drive our own thoughts

[@mukeshadwani4695]

❤

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

@@ivarhakuse8572 dont forget to include buddhism in this list You can how gullible people are still soaking up this garbage

[@madhushreeghosh3900]

Osho was a parasite to the Indian culture hence driven out of India and ruined the westerners who were naive to spirituality! I feel very sorry for the victims🙏🏻 and all this should come out in media.

[@Ippogrifus]

I dont feel ruined 😅😂 If anything he introduced many many westerners to the spiritual wisdom of the east. I do feel very grateful for this :)

[@sachinmonty]

very interesting perspective . this womem has . respect her views . what she had to go thru . but osho is a genius , pointing to undescribable truth .. . feel sorry that she had to defame the man .. hopefully she will feel better from her issues and find her way

[@kennedyseamus]

For those who had wonderful experiences: Guaranteed: there was much you didn’t see. Rajneesh was the source of this entire teaching and organization. As such, even if it cannot be proven that he abused children, there is too much testimony that child sexual abuse occurred under his nose by his own devotees, to declare Rajneesh blameless. When one dares to declare oneself as a representative of the Most High, and to create an abusive organization is a pretty harsh crime in and of itself. Ethics first, enlightenment can wait.

[@Ippogrifus]

Possibly you also missed put on something

[@christopherallan619]

This just came into my feed I know it is 2 years ago that you did this but for me it's a funny coincidence just saying it now. I was sitting down with a couple that I've been friends with and I haven't seen them for some time I know thay have been into Indian practises and I see this little shrine on the table and a book of the guru displayed there and as I stopped to look and touch the book his wife sides up to me and said this is a great man. I was stunned when I heard this and I asked her did you ever hear of the orange cult and this character referred to as sex guru in which she got quite hostile so for me this is great seeing this now because as a child of the 80s this was the view we had of him at this time. What annoyed me the most is she's a school teacher of approximately 18 years so I thought she would know better.

[@amberismaela]

This is all very old Why are jou relating on this? Dont go there I feel there is a sort of faking a new realety here chainsawmonk. Let go of persectivs?

[@gilbertobarrantes9672]

I feel sorry for your environment as a kid, and for not having the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of a meditative life. Forgiveness.

[@NinaN845]

How weird ! This is obviously’her’ experience as a child who wanted more stability and not a life in the commune. I lived in Poona as well , my son was there from 5 to 11 years old. Now looking back he remembers being surrounded by love, freedom and adventures. This therapist seem not to have any interest in spirituality, and unfortunately it was not what she needed and is very bitter for not getting her needs met as a child. He father probably still appreciates his experience. My experience with Osho was more than appreciated. It was just a beginning of my spiritual path,

[@gavinscott1512]

Path to hell

[@jimmizkewitsch340]

Sad to see a disappointed victim of circumstance. Life is challenging and only those with courage to explore, experiment, observe and discover will live joyfully, in gratitude and clarity; moment to moment, here and now.

[@ZooZ-q9q]

So she is blaming his followers fault as fault of osho lol she never read osho book she just a hater who believe in religion osho talk so much about woman wmpowermen

[@regorohan]

Osho was a total failure as a guru. but his books have a great deal of truth, dangerous if not read with the light of reason. . .every saint will sometimes be a sinner, and every sinner . sometimes a saint. I suggest you read a book(from his 600 odd books). you will understand exactly why your parents fell for him.( his followers were some of the most intelligent people of those times) Osho's was a disaster but his words were brilliant.

[@brightonandhovepsychothera6674]

Osho was well-educated and well-read. He knew how to use words to manipulate people. This is what he was brilliant at. If you listen to his words closely, you will also find that a lot of stuff was simply made up and that he didn't know much about what he was saying. Raising children was one of the topics on which he said a lot, but knew nothing.

[@SebastianTaeggi]

"Osho was a disaster but his words were brilliant" I would rather read it the other way round: his words were (sometimes) brilliant, but he was a disaster.

[@Hellomyfriend87]

@jenaya_laila2442 I find your one-sided and negative way of looking at this movement (or 'cult' in your words) unfortunate. As stated above I also grew up in India as a child-sannyasin and have many positive memories. While I am very critical about many aspects I always try to look from all perspectives. You should do that as well, while writing your book - setting your ego aside and looking at the good and the bad adds alot more depth to your story.

[@ZooZ-q9q]

All he said was true

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

You say osho sexually abused women. Are you saying personally or your freinds were raped by him or that they felt abliged to have sex with him In what manner was he sexually abusive to the women? If thats what you are saying It is important that you express this very clearly. You allure to it being so but was it so. ? Please be clear

[@GregoryVe]

many former members of the cult have spoken about how the children were abused in the cult. Women were raped when refused to take part in orgy, were labelled as selfish. Ever wondered why he didn't allow Indians in his pune ashram?

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

@ thankyou very much for your reply Thats very disapointing to hear that truth of it No i never wondered about puna and no Indians I wasnt that close to what your people were doing Thanks again

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

Do you know if osho sexually abused woman I realise this is a difficult subject My interest to know the truth of this is not for a petty gossip Nor am i going to judge as i have worked with sexually abused people for many decades I am an older man now and just interested in the truths about osho here If you know the facts i appreciate any willingness to share with me Thankyou

[@GregoryVe]

@@user-hb5qs7sy2v I don't think there has ever been an incident of Osho himself sexually abusing women. He talked openly about sex and admitted to having sex with many of his followers. But there were incidents of rape in his ashram at puna and many of the former cult members from Oregon talked about the sexual exploitation of children and women at the ranch. You can find many news articles online about this, many written by former followers of Osho

[@GregoryVe]

@@user-hb5qs7sy2v There have been no incidents of osho himself sexually abusing women. He was very transparent of his philosphy about open sex with multiple partners and admitted to having sex with many of his followers. The problem is that the cult believed exposure of children to sexual activities helped in their development. Children were viewed as obstacles to parents' sexual freedom. There were also many incidents when women were raped, as many former followers of cult admitted. Ever Osho's secretary has admitted that there were incidents of sexual abuse in the community but claimed that it had nothing to do with the teachings and culture of Osho.