Chinese Communist Party now derives legitimacy from ultra-nationalism: Shivshankar Menon

[@shyamchabra5355]

I remember India in the 1960s. There was ample evidence that nationalism/populism was already on the way. China has a far greater focus than dwelling on the Indian issue. India is just not that important to China. India's best strategy is to improve the future of 'all' Indians. Failing this, will leave the nation without a voice internationally.

[@zhoubaidinh403]

Bingo!

[@pedastrianc3185]

Just note Muslims and dalit are not Indians.

[@heinzreudigiger9485]

Don't fall prey the gaslighting by the Western media. Focus on India growth/development and the West will eventually even know to India.

[@sachindrasinha864]

India is very important for China. Strategically and politically. In the minds of Chinese think tank India is the only country that holds the key triggers to restrict Chinese expansion designs. Also there are key impetus that China will acquire, if they are able to dominate over eastern part of India. In defense strategic planning and in economic policy design they will use this as a tool to subjugate India strategically and ensure that Asia is under their thumb. No other nation in Asia can challenge China. Mr. Menon is far far away that what is happening in contemporary geopolitics world. But I am not disrespecting him. He will never know what China is up to. He doesn’t have access and lacks that kind of network that can provide him the glimpse of the real chess move. The grand show has been initiated and the first part is being played out. 2nd and third part will come into play if all moves falls in right socket. So never think strategically India is not important to Chinese defense planner. The whiz kid Mr. Modi has made every possible checkmate against Chinese. Is this sharp enough to hold them. Only time will say. But definitely Indians should be thankful of this guy.

[@slashterry5195]

@@heinzreudigiger9485 All of them look such give up and fed up also lose hoping after what will happen past and now.really not UNDERSTAND why a name of country leader do now and where they trust also faith to the religion.

[@jayaramanganapathi9385]

Outstanding session, now this is how experts present themselves. I am not worthy enough to appreciate Mr. Menon, but The Print should be appreciated for providing a simple talk-through session without interruptions for an expert to just present his thoughts.

[@TooBadToBeAway1]

India certainly has the brains to stand up to China, as shown by this wonderful talk.

[@hanfucolorful9656]

@@soheil527 You should continue your list, the phone is from China, and the ball pens are also from China. Yes, until today India cannot make ball pens, they can only make chips, I mean, the potato chips.

[@ashishmaharana5865]

It will be quite nice if Mr menon can put his expertise in China in a book format.

[@mutualrespect4411]

agreed

[@libshastra]

Shivshankar Menon did publish a book earlier this year (May '21) called "India and Asian Geopolitics". This talk is a partially rehashed version of his book.

[@kaustubhshukla6462]

India needs a constant and committed foreign policy doctrine. The lack of stable and committed Indian skin in the geopolitical game makes India an unreliable partner and this hamper trade , particularly with the west. Stable and committed foreign policy with the UAE should be seen as a model example.

[@nigelwiseman8644]

Great thoughts! Great Chinese pronunciation! Wonderful command of English! Great respect for this man.

[@kallachi729]

A good diplomat, experienced and a well nuanced take on China. I wish, for the sake of India and Indians, he had taken a minute to explain the difference between National pride and Nationalism. The narrative of National pride is getting increasingly eclipsed by the agenda based discourses on Nationalism. Tailpiece: National pride is essential to safeguard sovereignty, more so in a vibrant and diverse democracy. Make no mistake here.

[@globalnationalismyoutube]

National pride is a part of Nationalism. Both are beneficial to countries. What China is doing is imperialism not nationalism.

[@hanfucolorful9656]

National pride = the feeling of what you have accomplished. For example, if your rover crashed on the Moon, but you claim the mission is 99% success, instead of accepting the failure, that's Nationalism, if you land your rover on Mars in the first mission, that's National pride.

[@kallachi729]

@@hanfucolorful9656 Thank you for recognising that National Pride is different from Nationalism. In regard to Rover ( I wonder whether you are a cricket fan/follower - but with your intelligence you will understand what I say). The NZ cricket team lost to Australian cricket team in the final of the T20 World Cup cricket tournamnet. It does not necessarily mean that the NZ cricket team and the NZ Nation can't take pride in the performance of the team and declare the campaign (performance in the tournament) as a whole, a success just because they lost a nail biting final match.

[@Ahsan8472]

Brilliant analyses. Insightful and educational. Thank you

[@srinusuperwiz9507]

Excellent👏👏👏.. Thanks for sharing your valuable thoughts Sir.. Also thank the print for bringing this to us 🙏

[@-Harambe]

Mr. Menon is amazing, and I learnt a lot; very enlightening. Well, most of us are not interested in learning any historic or political context of our neighboring countries. Whether it is China, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka. We are more interested in learning on white histories and values. We look up to whites. Rest, we antagonize.

[@vprakash2433]

International community has to sit up and decide the legitimacy or otherwise of Chinese actions at borders with India. It impacts the world not india alone. India has no choice but to defend its land and be ready for sacrifices.

[@pikachus5m166]

Given that PM Modi himself admitted that no PLA crossed over the LAC, and that Indias top general VK Singh stated that India over the years has transgressed 5 to 1 over the border, just who is driving up tensions at the border ?

[@rajx7120]

@@pikachus5m166 Modi meant nobody was allowed to cross the border. China had build illegal camps close to LAC, violating past agreements, to continue their salami slicing. That's why the dispute happened.

[@rajx7120]

@Xhzlzhx Olo Do you even know what happened? PLA had agreed to dismantle their illegal tents close to the LAC, after the talks between commanders. Indian border troops obviously wanted to check if Chinese were indeed honoring the withdrawal, and true to their suspicion, the Chinese had not dismantled anything. As usual Chinese were lying. That's why the scuffle happened. Instead of a withdrawal, the treacherous Chinese had brought reinforcements with clubs containing nails. 45 of your PLA, sufferred for their lies.

[@k.k.c8670]

@@rajx7120 go back further and look at the map after the 1962 war. It is India that has been encroaching since that time when China wasn't looking. 45 PLa soldiers ? You got that from India media? Why not say 500 or 2000.. Lol

[@badbad-cat]

The border issue is created by British. British entered into conflicting border agreements with China and India. Nobody is discussing this history. I don't know why

[@vishnaik1624]

I whole heartedly support Mr Menon

[@chamankhan7396]

Love you china from USA Ny Long Island

[@ma5839]

You agree with forced organ harvesting from religious prisoners?

[@badbad-cat]

@@ma5839 too much WION huh?

[@ma5839]

@@badbad-cat Actually, I was considering making a medical tour to a Chinese hospital years ago. I know people who had transplants there. It was only when the brutal crimes and ethnic cleansing of Uyghurs occurred did I find out organ harvesting, but they have doing it for years with prisoners. Medical tourism to China is a booming industry anf organ harvesting is like shark fins and grounding aborted fetuses into vitality pills to them-no moral or ethical boundary inhibits them. American news sources have reported these stories

[@speedbird109]

There are no Chinese villains in movies… well one is enough.

[@ma5839]

South Park would disagree

[@GirishVenkatachalam]

What a top quality genius? Omg hats off

[@josephwallis8965]

I'm glad someone who was ex FM now out of the central platform dares to speak up, if people like him always hide away, India has no hopes, the world has no hopes. I admire his audacity & integrity. He surely will be punished by China hugging Indian politicians who will sanction him & punish him

[@vyasakaveendra7510]

Time to take Tibet, Taiwan, HK and SCS matters to UNO where China is a permanent SC member. Time to hit. 🙏

[@k.k.c8670]

Empty talk again.. Hit with what? India?

[@VicharB]

Thank you for the analyst, it was definitely interesting to listen to.

[@thomasperera3107]

Like the Golan heights are strategic to Israel so the Himalayas. Heights are strategic in warfare. Ballistics on the Himalayas will have all the Chinese cities within range and missiles fired, China won’t have the time to intercept with satellite tracking . China will have the time to intercept Ground launch as it has to go up and come down. China don’t have the Heights advantage and China is going for the heights. If China take the heights there is no stopping them. They will go for global dominion. Only way to deter China is to fortify and defend the Himalayas with an international coalition. Better than ships and submarines in the Pacific

[@akirasean4080]

Himalayas doesn't protect Japan, Taiwan, & US, Navy is still the best deterrent against China. Stop being selfish, it's not about India alone, but all democratic country in the world

[@sublimefermion2205]

In mountain warfare the only factors that matter are mobility, logistics and airpower.

[@hokz7283]

In this age of high tech warfare the Himalayan heights is but a small obstacle and there is very less chance of soldiers actually fighting face to face other then to occupy and hold claim lines. If war breaks out technologies are going to do real battles. The new age war is going to be something the world has never seen before. We just hope that our leaders will be able to tactfully deal with our adversaries by keeping things not beneficial for them to be adventurous. The Himalayas are our defence but they are already sitting there. The PLA deployments at the LAC are just a few hundred kilometres as a crow flies from Delhi. While Beijing is 5000km away.

[@rajx7120]

The world is moving towards fifth generation warfare, with stealth fighters and Beyond Visual range missiles.

[@ma5839]

@@rajx7120 are you saying by having the high ground, your adversary must give up and not counteract being the chosen one?

[@maheshmanian]

Excellent analysis

[@beastbison7626]

Finally Some where China 🇨🇳 is learning from India 🇮🇳 ‘Ultra nationalism’

[@sriramprasannaarikapalli472]

Very informative

[@abhi.c137]

Excellent and incisive analysis.

[@JS-zc2jr]

🙏 #theprint #cuttheclutter #shekhargupta #shivshankarmenon 🙏

[@henli-rw5dw]

All superpower expand. Each create empires. All eventually trusted using media tools. Isn't this normal by historical standard?

[@ma5839]

China exists as a subject of the America world order. It has only acted within that order. It has neither seriously designed to replace that order, or to destroy it. Nor has China fought an armed conflict with a lesser power since 1979, an equal, or a greater power. Perhaps Taiwan will be Xi's moment where he puts everything on a military conquest of Taiwan and the will have to respond or not.

[@henli-rw5dw]

@@ma5839 Why should it listen to US if it grows bigger than US both economically and militarily as it is projected to do soon? If it knows it can win what's to stop it from conflict?

[@punnavanamsubbiah7434]

In simple total confusion. Because of greed mankind is in restlessness mood for which EX EAM no words of policy but consoling words to fear in citizens of world

[@prakharsharma3070]

7:45

[@mahdiali2695]

We need action to counter Chinese aggression 8n the Ocean

[@rodgerhempfing2921]

So, it needs external threats to maintain legitimacy.

[@Organic.Mechanic]

What a great mind.

[@ujwalmokashi6702]

It's seems easy to break China, compared to Pakistan. India should focus on breaking it like soviet union rather than guarding itself from PLA. There are many faultlines. Don't be defensive against this bully.

[@k.k.c8670]

Delusional you are. Look at your own strengths.. Uh, weaknesses. You are in no position to do squat.

[@FullHD-ng2mg]

China has only one important addenda in their foreign policy. That is to retard / delay India’s progress and economical growth and if possible humiliate Modi Government There is good chance that China will go for war with India as huge Indian resources will be diverted and drained, this will also help China to affect Foreign Investment in India. This will also destabilise India and create anxiety in Western companies planning to move in to India from China

[@Ms7272727]

Let China think whatever it wants and what is important is what we think and do for ourselves and not others do. It is important to remember that might is only value added commodity in the world and as we failed to recognize this basic truth all these years the present predicament has arisen. Time to change our dreaming and endless talking and lecturing ways. Krish

[@bijoylaha7245]

Former Chief Minister Buddha Bhattacharya full involve

[@bijoylaha7245]

Ready now big trouble for u Mr meno

[@bijoylaha7245]

He is master roll my DNA and fingerprint adding Central

[@tameduck7563]

Cambodia is not a neighbor of China. Not sure if I want to listen any further

[@Jagan-lp8gu]

Cambodia as a member of ASEAN

[@dineshkumarsnair7964]

How can someone jump to conclusion just like that... A scholastic discourse based on experience / statesmanship has to be listned to in full and then ofcourse you make up your mind.. This kind of an approach do not augur well at all..

[@Milton1963]

To India, China does matter, and to China, India, well India should matter, well it's up to them. But to the world at large a weak India would give China a cakewalk in much of its dealing with it, or at least in the immediate neighbourhood in the immediate future. A strong India would be a checkmate China indeed and in the context of the world at large a counterweight to the hot-headed west who think that their culture is the best of everything. Yes, their (the west) culture could be termed very good, but it was made on the loot, grime and dirt of the subcontinent for nearly 150 years (and of course we are to blame for our fall from glory -which started from AD 1300 right to the moment when we gained independence from the British- Now we have started to stand own our legs, it will be a while when we can really be felt across the world just like we were in the past just before our fall to the west. Then the west will really get a good competitor for its culture, technology, philosophy and above all the thinking minds. So, China, you need India to matter to you, there is no choice for you...so put out your hand in cooperation, every Indian will be ready to take it...after all your very ethos went from my country - Buddhism, so it's time to give back in kind. Jai Hind, Jai Bharat

[@noahclark4097]

The same words to India.

[@surendrabarsode8959]

While intellectual and academic pursuit on Chinese history and vision, strategy and policies under Xi can go on, operationally India has to protect areas it considers as its own and holds now and be ready to give China a bloody nose if there is any misadventure in IOR. In addition, eventually we have to settle the border issue in Himalayas and relating to McMohan Line. As regards China encircling us via Pakistan and others in South Asia, we need to devise strategies to break Pakistan into 4 pieces (if it does not happen on its own!) and having counter strategies in other countries starting with laying down firm red lines not to be crossed by them. The US and Europe in general will handle China on other issues like Taiwan, Japan and South China sea etc. We are anyway part of Quad and should actively pursue it. China may have any dreams and may become the sole Super Power in the world, India cannot meekly submit to it and be its client state. India will have to develop its national power at a much faster rate than now. India can play a role which Pak played for US China relations in 70s- India can bring together Russia and US against China. Rise of China is not in Russia's interest either and soon, Russia can be expected to get worried about rising Chinese ambitions. This is a strategy that India must work on in future. Hopefully, Menon will also find time to think over how to counter the Chinese, having well understood how and what they think!

[@RaviSingh-iv2nw]

Well, an excellent talk. But let's not forget, Jhin Jhinping is just an old man, he may have a heart attack any day 😜.

[@bijoylaha7245]

West bengal some ias offers involving

[@kabeerharrythakur8288]

So Modi's India doesn't do nationalism ??

[@nishantmishra3269]

By when she will goto war with taiwan

[@ESMA-Netaji]

Why so serious?

[@mahdiali2695]

India can host indian ocean trade and security partnership..

[@zeher0015]

Dog barking in the background was not warranted :) You could have always edited the footage lolzzz....

[@ceychungyu7462]

This is more a opinion with out relative facts. To say that the CCP has a rise in dissatisfaction among her citizens ia actually wrong, to quote a fact, when the Harvard Kennedy School of USA did a survey of the satisfaction by the people of China of the CCP it was 93 % , now that's a factual statement. You are perfectly correct that it has a fear of external threats, with the USA, that's a fact, with the formation of QUAD, AUKUS, and interference in the South China Sea, instigating the breakaway of Taiwan, incitement in Hong Kong. Surely if India can surrender the Kashmir as desired by majority of citizens in Kashmir to a self governing country or a part of Pakistan, it would be justifiably correct to call China to take the same action. The present attrition and propaganda by the west and so called experts are all opinions to dissuaded the viewers of China's success. China now consumes 60 to 70% of all natural minerals which are exportable in the world. What it indicates is that her industries are manufacturing in full capacity. It send space rockets as frequent as children flying kites. It has utilised more concrete in 2 years to the equivalent of what USA has used in its life time. To hear baseless narratives by outsiders of China, is maybe to satisfy the ego of the natives in their country. Have you ever heard a Chinese geopolitics narrator giving a opinion in the youtube about India. Most Chinese are just not interested.

[@Milton1963]

We actually did not take over Kashmir akin to the Chinese takeover of Tibet or the threats of other nations in its vicinity, to know read history - O! by the way you are least bothered about India, so be it, its better for us that you are sleeping, (yes, I know your country's managers are not, but the people are not interested as you say, good for us Indians). It does not make sense that 93% of the simple Chinese people - minding their own business as all people of the world - would love iron (read Bamboo) chains on their feet...you say that whatever school of USA would compel our belief to be changed? Try again

[@ceychungyu7462]

@@Milton1963 correct me if I am wrong, was there a Indian nation before 1947. There was a Indian sub continent, but the maharajahs had their own countries, and were the rulers with defacto subservient powers to the British East Indian Co., the border line were drawn by British East Indian Co., to which China was not a participant, neither did the British East India ever contest possession. Its was first contested by the Indians in 1962. As to your bamboo chains, keep being blind. The Chinese love the bamboo chains, while travelling 40 000 kms of high speed trains, while leading the world in IT, space technology , with rockets being sent as frequent as small children lighting fire crackers, All the while being shackeled in bamboo chains. What a coversation. How can the Chinese even be remotely interested in what India does.

[@Milton1963]

​@@ceychungyu7462 Yes, I am correcting you. India existed as BHARATA VARSHA and our existence as a Nation was long before anyone came to rule here. Geography just made us into the nation we are today and not any nation. our entire nation i.e. from the Kashmir to Kanykumari and from Arunachal Pradesh to Rann of Kutch we have a common thread that binds us as one, even though outwardly we seem so distinct. Proximity of being bundled into a single land mass got sheltered under the Himalayas from outside forces for long weaved a thread of common identity in our culture that can be seen by any outsider than a forced distinction by people like you ​ @ceychung yu who for the time being can loathe us for a crime that we seem a 'softy', a weakling to you!!! Indeed, I tell you that will not be for long, since it is just about 70 odd years now, since we shook off our shackles and yet we are at the moment competing with the best in the world in some fields (I don't want to give you any names of fields here, since you will start another conversation). For you a common identity would be a flat nose and barely opening eyelids (no sarcasm intended here, for you its a reality) to spot a Chinese version (read Mongoloid). And it is humans who need freedom and are to be walking the earth unbound and not a DRAGON. A dragon needs to be bound in iron chains; bamboo would be NOT strong enough. And again, there are many Chinese people who are not dragons but as you said are in chains and do not like it that way, it is of them that I was speaking of and not those CCP mongering members. You are leaders at copying and have no qualms when you reverse engineer since you do it without asking for authorization and you own as your creation to it top it, that is outright cheating. I don't blame the people who do it, since they have a gun pointed at their temple to achieve, so they go out and do it the way they can. I did not mean to hurt you, but if the reality hurts you, I may not be faulted at.

[@ceychungyu7462]

@@Milton1963 I thought all the people in Arunachal pradesh are mongoloid, and part of the assam, manipur, nagaland who reside are also called " chota china" , are you from India. As said earlier, bharatha is a figment of imagination,romanticising a nation of India, even the great Asoka rule did not move to the South. The Indian land mass extended from Afganistan Sind in Pakistan to Chennai South, India then was 565 princely states. India had the dravidian chola empires, in the South and the mughal empires from the north who were decendance of the Mongols, who had converted to Islam. Either the history of India is being rewritten by you or you have no clue of India, once more are you indian. I forget, when you went into Goa, annexed it, what about Pondicherry, weren't they separately ruled countries of the Portuguese and the French. Its very interesting, when comments of racial nature are made during a debate it means as Socrates said :When a debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser. In case you like to exchange views of our ethnicity, let me know whether, you are from the South or North and what caste, I can give you good account of which rung of the caste system you stand. A analysis of you name says that your family embraced Christianity quite some time back, maybe as Anglo Asian, Milton is the Christian name and Mathews a Catholic acceptance. There are two reasons to have changed from historical Hinduism is 1. Lower rung of the caste or 2. To enrich the family coffers, by worshipping the Anglo saxon. I maybe wrong, this is a configuration from the little facts I obtained from your name.

[@Milton1963]

​@@ceychungyu7462 Look at your own map for the last 3000 years, it never had Tibet and the vast Northwestern region above Tibet. You, just annexed it one by one through the centuries and in the near past Tibet too. India on the other hand went out to war with any in the world in its history. And I tell you, we will be forced to make history by breaking this line of passiveness in the coming future in which the world will be with us. We the country of India is multicultural, multi-ethnic, and varied gene pool to boot. We represent the microcosm of the world outside. Arunachal Pradesh is not yours (China) you can come to war on it. In fact you are going to come to war on it and you will realise there that Tibet is not for your keeping. FYI, I write under my name and don't hide. You are probably from (Cey)lone born outside China. I have given some facts about you and your self in my previous reply, why do you take that as personal offense since you are trying to deviate from the fact of your personality that is common fact of your country's demography. And, who told you I am a worshipper of an Anglo Saxon!!! And an Atheist like you should know anything about worship...I dare say it

[@hsoepangkat2007]

I would like to remind Menon that when Modi went to Wuhan for a nice visit with President Xi, Xi addressed Modi: " Brother Modi, we are neighbours and we are equal in every respect!" but when India joined US in QUAD as the lap dog of the US, then Xi would say: " Bro Modi, can't you see that China is 5 times bigger than you?". So if India doesn't come as she is but comes as a supporting member in a hostile group, India loses her status as an independent country and the respect from China. This February Jaishankar went to London during the 7G Minister of Foreign Affair meeting, he was heard begging Blinken for the permit of export for the vaccine raw materials to India. Real shame as an US lap dog.

[@joydevsarkar4474]

India was never dog of USA and never will be our resolve to buy s400 is example , yes galwan conflict made us to move towards USA as it should.So what you want to say our soldiers died and we will be kissing chinese? Chinese bot?

[@hsoepangkat2007]

@@joydevsarkar4474 oh it looks like you didn't know that Col Babu the commander who arrived just 2 days on the job in Galwan valley decided to create some big hot news for his top gear in New Delhi, went to the Chinese side at night and was clobbered by the PLA. He and 2 Indian soldiers died in the physical fight but 17 soldiers refused to surrender and jumped into the freezing river. They later died due to the lack of medical facilities at the Indian side. Those Indian soldiers who surrendered to the PLA were fed well and sent back to the Indian camp the next day. Col. Babu's wife was rewarded with an expensive house in New Delhi even though Babu's command was completely mediocre. The other 19 dead soldiers' families didn't even get a hut in their villages. Indian media immediately created the hoax news that PLA lost over 40 men just to save Hindu face. From the video PLA released one year later, the PLA lost only 4 men. In 1962, with 40,000 men PLA clobbered Indian Army's 300,000 men force and won 40 year truce at the border. The Hindus will never forgive the Chinese for that 1962 defeat and will remember it for the next 1000 yrs until the great hero Mahatma Gandhi is reincarnated. It is then possible for India and China to sit down and settle the border issues.

[@prastagus3]

"derives legitimacy from ultra-nationalism" - so its populism quite similar to how India ultra-nationalism works? Surprisingly good analysis from an Indian scholar, with a few inaccuracies but still very well done and quite rare.

[@sukai3582]

There ase so many chinese social credit farmers in the comments. Like dude just get out🤮

[@bijoylaha7245]

Rahul main conspirator

[@rinzinnamgyal9]

Sovereignty how.? Tibet is not their land.

[@k.k.c8670]

Really? What's your interest in Tibet?

[@joydevsarkar4474]

As a TIBETAN it is his birth right.

[@k.k.c8670]

@@joydevsarkar4474 right... How are the birth rights of the citizens of Assam, Jammu and Kashmir?

[@bijoylaha7245]

Gandhi main advisor?

[@bijoylaha7245]

Send to America me

[@Timetraveler737]

Dear Sir, Your talk was both educational and thought-provoking. However I am gravitated towards bringing up the fact that India moved way beyond any possible political parlè with Pakistan when it unilaterally decided to revoke article 370 and pushed Kashmiris into a dark corner. Pride hath a fall fits perfectly for the India of Modi which is the only India for the foreseeable future. Do not expect your neighbours to bend over backwards to please Hindutva extremist Ideology which is brewing hatred from the grass roots level up in the society now manifesting itself in the life of everyday Indians. Need I name some recent incidents? Therefore realistically speaking forget the fictitiously created India of Raj Kapoor’s movies where Truth always won at the end.., RSS’s India chooses Godse over Ghandi, Savarkar over Nehru and apparently no amount of fact checking them will change their opinion. Fast forward 3 decades of the same and imagine what would be waiting for us at the end? A very divided India with Corporations controlling everything… ? 😵‍💫

[@mikeliu5201]

This guy doesn’t have much knowledge.

[@alanthecat59]

gg

[@chamankhan7396]

Fake guy