Chinese Concert Grand vs German Handmade Parlor Grand | The Soul of a Piano

[@rikspector]

James, Not just pianos, Stringed instruments, wood instruments etc. I watched a you tube video of a guitarist playing 5 nylon string Martin guitars and every one has it's own "Soul". My Bflat clarinet from the late 1950's has a rich core to it's sound partially based on the quality of the wood from that time. I tried a number of instruments before picking that one. With clarinets, there are many other factors, controlled by the musician which combine to create a beautiful sound including the shape of ones mouth and how one breathes, the reed, the mouthpiece etc. Fine string instruments are slightly removed from the wood winds but can still be tweaked by the performer. As you said , every high end piano even the same model by the same manufacturer will have it's own voice or soul, But no matter how fine the instrument, even the piano which has less personal tweaking, is subject to the mind and soul of the performer. It is that personal signature created through years of practice and timing and listening which creates the identity. I would bet that if you were blindfolded and listened to the performances of ten different great pianists, you could probably identify each one, that is the true soul, becoming one with your instrument. The soul of a piano isn't just it's construction but the "marriage" so to speak of the piano and the performer. Cheers, Rik Spector

[@michaelnancyamsden7410]

Very interesting and informative. My feeilng about the B. was warm breezy bright sunny day. The other R. was thin grey cool mist over grey landscape

[@mahdihonarmandrad8301]

Bechstein does a really fantastic job in making pianos that sound like considerably larger pianos. A Few years ago I watched a review video of a Bechstein-Zimmerman piano, the piano was just a 4' 8" baby grand but the sound was like a 7' piano!

[@albertopena7344]

The C. Bechstein is amazing!!! the tone is just sweet! you are an awesome pianist!!

[@pranavjayaprakasanut]

That c bechstein piano had the best tone I have ever heard 😃

[@The_Smith]

Do you find the 'soul' of a piano changes the more it is played? (and it's vids like this one which is why I usually run the sound through my house stereo . . .)

[@judsonmusick3177]

When you were playing the Ritmuller, the recorded sound was quite dry and "dead", especially the "Moonlight Sonata". In comparison, the Bechstein recording sounded much fuller. You played "Clair de Lune" and your own composition on both pianos, and the "bloom" of the Bechstein recording came through clearly.

[@ThePianoforever]

The Bechstein was easily one of my favorite pianos at the show this year.

[@disienna]

It’s interesting that you use the word “bloom”. I’ve played a number of Bechstein and Hoffman pianos and they all seem to have it. The Bechstein sound a little better in general but the Hoffman do not cost a whole lot more than the Ritmuller. Oh, and when you get into Bechstein that cost nearly the same as a Hoffman, I actually prefer the Hoffman. Anyway, in case you can’t tell, I,m a huge fan of the Hoffman pianos.

[@pranavjayaprakasanut]

Whenever I am playing the keyboard the end joint of the pinky finger kinda bents outwards . I don't know what caused this issue to occur . I am using non weighted keys in a keyboard. Is this a physical condition or can I train to overcome this problem??

[@ThePianoforever]

This is a difficult question to answer. While I don't personally know you, it's likely it's something you can overcome. If you want, you can make a video of it on your KZbin channel so I can see. It's probably just a posture issue that's easily corrected.

[@NicoleRetuta]

:) You deserve more subscribers! Looking forward to that day when you reach 100k! :D

[@ThePianoforever]

Thanks! I am, too, it will be super exciting! :D

[@JohannnesBrahms]

Someone finally says what I have known all my life. Pianists do have the worst seat in the house.

[@AL-ns1jm]

Like organists ;)

[@g10118]

Yeah usually not even a padded bench.

[@carlbowles1808]

I immediately noticed that the rittemour piano had a less Rich tone than The hand built piano. Soul as you described was the difference. The Chinese piano wasn't bad just not as good.

[@JoseVGavila]

Not yet there, I am afraid... BTW, my humble Yamaha U3H has also its lovely soul ❤️

[@cannedmusic]

The size of the room and whether it has acoustical paneling on the walls and ceiling. The Bechstein looked to be in a more open area, the Ritmuller was in a more office-like setting, which, if anything, should have added a bit of warmth to the Ritmuller. I noticed that the Ritmuller grand was by itself, whereas the C. Bechstein was sitting next to one of its brothers which could have added a bit of sympathetic resonance, which could be considered cheating by the persons selling the Bechstein. But, yeah, the midrange of the Ritmuller did seem a bit thin.

[@ThePianoforever]

At the NAMM show, I don't think the sympathetic resonance of the other piano would be heard, and it would be very subtle anyways. Yes, it was strange how cold the Ritmuller sounded, but the Bechstein sounded incredible.

[@cannedmusic]

@@ThePianoforever yes, it truly did. I wish I could have heard you play Moonlight Sonata, Third Movement , on it, also.

[@gbantock]

Even uprights, even studio uprights, can have the "soul" that you refer to. I remember that when, in the mid-1980s I found my then new Knabe (made the last year of production in Rochester, N.Y.), it sounded wonderfully sweet and warm, with a "lyrical soul" to the sound. There was another Knabe like it right next to it in the store and it sounded ordinary and constricted in sound. I made sure to copy the plate humber, to be sure that I would receive the one that I had chosen in the store. It was the one that I had noted thus, and the piano has been a sweetheart (one that all of my technicians love to handle when they come by). Both of the Knabe studio uprights were the same model, from the same store, made the same year, etc., yet one had so much more life and soul in the sound than the other one did.

[@MarlonTangHoww]

🔥🔥🔥

[@RModillo]

You are not clear-- is this a Concert Series C Bechstein, or from the Academy line? If the latter, that is a great bargain. (Bechstein's use of "A" is a little confusing.)

[@ThePianoforever]

The C. Bechstein in this video was from the Concert Series and was to die for.

[@RModillo]

@@ThePianoforever Thanks! Nice to hear. When lockdown abates, I hope to be shopping for an upright, and the Concert 8 is very likely on the list of things to look at. This raises my expectations!

[@ThePianoforever]

I reviewed two fantastic uprights at NAMM this spring and will be uploading them soon. They were the two of best uprights I have ever heard, The Concert 8 and also Steingraeber 130. I played the 130 first and said it was the best upright I had ever played and then a few minutes later found the concert 8 that was it's equal.

[@RModillo]

@@ThePianoforever I tried the Steingraeber uprights all together. Very impressive, although maybe more as training for a virtuoso performer. They sounded excellent across the room, but were very assertive in front of the keyboard. Maybe more than I would need. The same shop had the 2 Grotrians below their top model, and they were more to my taste. Clear but warm, and a fascinating range of sounds across registers. Like NY Steinways but more exaggerated, perhaps. I had to try the Concert 8 across town, and perhaps it wasn't so well prepped. No flaws, but I wasn't getting dazzled. And like a Strad violin (vs a Guarneri), Bechstein doesn't try too hard to seduce you up front. All has to be in place for that to work, I think. Anyway, looking forward to your reviews! Based on what I have heard to date, Bechstein and Grotrian are top of the tree. Have you tried the Feurich Vienna 123? A shop in Chicago has those, and the action is said to be out of this world.

[@RModillo]

Also, have you tried Sauter uprights? Pianoworld seems to have a bunch of partisans for that brand.

[@judsonmusick3177]

James, I was wondering if you have played and/or recorded any pianos made by another Chinese company - Hailun. Hailun is highly-regarded in the piano industry.

[@ThePianoforever]

From what I've played, they seem to be quite alright for a Chinese piano. I wasn't too impressed, but not too disappointed either. Some of them have a rather premium appearance, with the burl wood inside the rim.

[@pranavjayaprakasanut]

Is the piece at 4:41 your original composition??

[@ThePianoforever]

Yes.

[@techpoint9540]

ThePianoforever do you have sheet music for it

[@briansun6336]

Chinese piano manufacturers are at a quite bad position to prove they are capable I guess. The reputation of Chinese pianos is pretty much tarnished by Pearl River in the early years. I haven’t played many acoustic pianos but there are two brands gave me some good impression. I think Hailun sounds quite European. Yangtze River pianos sold in China are kinda like kawai, especially the action. Don’t know what you think about Chinese pianos.

[@ThePianoforever]

Yes, I agree. It's hard for them to escape the stereotype of "cheap, poorly-made pianos" because that's what many of them have been for a long time. Even today, as you can hear, they are struggling to create something truly great (although the Ritmuller was the best Chinese piano I've ever seen.) I haven't had a chance to play a Yangtze River piano yet, there aren't many here in the States from my experience.

[@julianmatthews5785]

To me any piano is great if it’s not an upright.

[@frazzledude]

Hailun is a privately owned -- as privately as possible in communist China -- by a man named Hailun. He brought technicians, piano designers and builders from established, well known European piano factories to his factory in China. So the Hailun grand pianos are essentially a European design built by European crafts people in a Chinese factory. They sound quite good for a Chinese piano, but they are a second tier piano compared to the top of the line grand pianos made in Europe and the USA. I believe the Chinese pianos of today are comparable to the Japanese pianos of the early 1970s. The Yamaha pianos of the early 1970s were overly bright and harsh sounding, and the build quality was not great. But today the top tier Japanese grand pianos are very good, and the Yamaha CFX is an outstanding concert grand piano. Chinese pianos are steadily improving. Maybe in 40 or 50 years time they will be topnotch acoustic pianos.

[@benjaminsmith2287]

They will get better. I have no doubt. I've watched Japanese products go from bad to ok to good to mostly magnificent. Same thing happened with Korean products and Korean pianos are getting better. China will get there too as well. The government isn't pleasant at all there but there is a quality of improvement culture that will get them to at least a high standard. They'll make very good pianos and will develop their own type of sound. Right now, they're still emulating the European or one of the great 2 Japanese manufacturer's sounds.

[@jutubjestzlem]

@@ThePianoforever The interesteing test would be taking one of the Essex pianos (you know, those designed by Steinway) and comparing them to Rittmuller. I've heard that Essex pianos are built by none other than Pearl River, the comany behind Rittmuller.

[@markkens9]

The Chinese sounded like once a note was played, the piano was simply done with it. No audible string or body resonance, hard to tell you were pedaling sustain even when you were visibly doing so.

[@Clavichordist]

The C. Bechstein wins hands down. There's a warmth and clarity in that instrument that's missing from the Chinese instrument. The Ritmueller sounds okay, but it's very distant and lacks the depth and warmth that the Bechstein has, and the piano sounded more like a digital piano than a real grand. The soul is how the soundboard and everything interacts with everything else. This varies between production even within the same company, although modern builders make very plain sounding instruments compared to those from the past.

[@frankcasatelli4078]

It sure looks like the Faziolli

[@Thiago-px9ev]

For me, that Ritmuller is a bit dry... it doesnt have a singing tone like the Bechstein, the sound doesnt seem well-connected between the different registers. After all, I would pick the smaller Bechstein over this concert Ritmüller anytime.

[@ThePianoforever]

There was something magical about the Bechstein, I loved it.

[@Thiago-px9ev]

@@ThePianoforever Do you think they still are a top tier brand next to Steinway, Bösendorfer, Fazioli, Blüthner etc? In a scale of 1 to 5, they all would be 5?

[@Thiago-px9ev]

@@ThePianoforever Also I would like to ask you why these other brands arent as popular as Steinway, Fazioli and Bösendorfer anymore? Why its so hard to find a Bechstein D282 in a concert hall nowadays, in your opinion? I think that would be a nice theme for another video.

[@ThePianoforever]

Absolutely! All the brands you mentioned wouldn't get the same score of course;. Depending on personal preference/needs, one person might find a Bösendorfer more desirable than a person who prefers the tone of a Fazioli. But Bechstein definitely is a top tier piano. Steinway would be near the bottom of the top 5 for me, many of their modern pianos just aren't as good as the instruments from other brands, in my opinion.

[@Thiago-px9ev]

@@ThePianoforever Thats cool! Personally, I like the Yamaha CFX better than most Steinways I've heard, I would say its my favorite piano but never played one. What really intrigues me is how Steinway monopolized almost every concert hall across the world. Is that because they have the biggest productive capacity among these big companies? Or because of legacy? I would love to see a video about it!

[@robertdublowski5544]

Bechstein is an opera singer, and Ritmuller mutters something under his breath...

[@88pianissimo90]

I didn't like Chinese piano.. kind of dead sound