Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche SPIRITUAL MATERIALISM

First part of the Teaching.

[@ivy1998]

I love this book. I admire Trungpa Rinpoche. This is one of the books that opens our mind and teachs us to confront/witness/accept reality with courage and wisdom, and to let go of self-deception, recognize the true nature of our naked mind.

[@aterseraph]

What made Chogyam Trungpa so important, is that he was the first Master to be steeped in western thought and ideas. He understood what the every day man and woman was going through in the West, especially the US. Its one thing to sit and chant in a cave somewhere in Tibet, and quite another to a person living in the modern West, having a job, a family, having to pay bills etc. This is what he understood, and what his teachings were geared towards...You and me, everyday man and woman. Cheers.

[@WindMountain]

He was my teacher. Entering his world, being permeated by it, was clear, crisp and sometimes sharply frightening to my murkey muddled lazy mind. Hearing his voice again, is sweet/sad and wakes me up! Thanks for this video!

[@Beaverhound]

16 years ago! Wow!

[@Johnnyhumbkr]

I remember reading that book “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” , and thinking this guy must be God. I ,personally, have never come across these concepts in western spirituality. They might be there in different wording, but I’ve never seen them. Sure, Chogyam Trungpa had some problems, most humans do, myself included. But, those of us that have treaded this path,know he had to experience this before writing this sublime book. Sadly I never met him,but I was 5 minutes behind him once! What was the first thing the Buddha taught us? “Each Prince, to his Kingdom, must labor to go.” That means we can’t just read a book, and “poof”, we are enlightened. It’s a long slow struggle. Practice well, people, and be thankful for people like Chogyam Trungpa!

[@calebvallevand]

He was a profoundly gentle and straightforward individual. His teachings are relevant to those who study Buddhism, and to those who do not. He set up a university and sanga's all over North America and Europe, in other words he busted his rump attempting to offer a practice that would alleviate the suffering of other beings. To me the drinking is a minor detail amongst how many individuals he has deeply touched and inspired to see their own and other's basic goodness.

[@michelleyamamotoart]

Hello Janchup, Just because he calls his disciples on their shit, does not make him a dictator. One's ego has to be open to seeing their faults in order for any inner evolution to occur and while some teachers "paint it pretty" making a seeker feel good about themselves, that won't penetrate the armours of modern day society and seekers. Blessings to you on your journey.

[@mitesser80]

One should be mindful of the messenger. Nothing pure comes from the unpure.

[@BuddhaBlurbs]

Trungpa Rinpoche was a great teacher in the vein of the Mahasiddhas. But people nowadays can't handle that type of teacher . They tend to freak out. But all of his teachings are pure Dharma.

[@Beaverhound]

There are so many decade old comments here Feels like I just uncovered an ancient lost library

[@utubemusic7890]

As the third Jamgön Kongtrül explained in a teaching given to students of Chögyam Trungpa, "You shouldn't imitate or judge the behavior of your teacher, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, unless you can imitate his mind

[@jerry-mind-sky]

Thanks for Third Kongtrul Rinpoche advice.

[@bostonpaul123]

@Paahau Thanks for commenting. So many on here have no idea what he was like and it is swept under the carpet by the Vajradhatu and Shambhala communities. It just makes me wonder.. if you do not draw the line at cirrosis (sp?) of the liver, alcohol-induced psychosis, drug abuse, sleeping with hundreds of students, or appointing senior people who similarly abuse power and are so self-deluded that they think they can sleep with students while HIV positive and not affect them...then where do you ?

[@guyglowmore1]

the fastronauts multiply consuming everything imaginable. the quickening accellerates while we try to get " spiritual "

[@utubemusic7890]

Chögyam Trungpa also received support from one of his own main teachers, Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, head of the Nyingma lineage. In addition to numerous sadhanas and poems dedicated to Trungpa, Khyentse Rinpoche wrote a supplication after Trungpa's death specifically naming him a mahasiddha.[31][32][33] Among other Tibetan lamas to name Trungpa as a mahasiddha are the Sixteenth Karmapa, Thrangu Rinpoche, Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche and Tai Situpa.[34]

[@edeltm]

great great wonderful dancer ... love his teachings, his poem, .... !!!

[@dylanesc]

how can you not love this guy, lulz

[@longde]

@CT2507 Finally, and to answer your question, Buddhism (at least Vajrayana buddhism) is not about refraining from drinking or having a spiritual name or taking chastity votes; it is about having a profound understanding of the mind and its workings to cut through all the neurosis and have a honest relationship with reality and with other people. And in this respect CTR was one of the best teachers ever. You should read "Cutting through spiritual materialism", my friend.

[@Jayskiallthewayski]

@JoshRom What a great insight, thank you for proving them right, if I had any doubts or anyone coming here you give the right push as to other options.

[@BOHEMIANWAVE]

WoW! Thank You very much for making this available! I've often felt sad that I never got to hear Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when he was alive. Thank You!!

[@druidia9]

It is indeed difficult to reconcile Trungpa's private life and his teachings, even if one calls upon the premise of his "Crazy Wisdom." All I know is that "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" is perhaps the most brilliant exposition of how the ego can co-opt the spiritual path, with horrific results for both teacher and devotee. Should be standard reading for either party.

[@aterseraph]

@TheMoonHeron Just a note, 'Rinpoche' is not a name, it's a title...his name was Chogyam Trungpa. Cheers.

[@bleupeony2]

Please check out two of his very best: Meditation in Action and Myth of Freedom

[@utubemusic7890]

The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche said, "As taught in the Buddhist scriptures, there are nine qualities of a perfect master of buddhadharma. The eleventh Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche possessed all nine of these." [35]

[@wvreeland]

I'm LOVIN' this stream of conversation about Chogyam Trungpa.... GO for it everybody! Fight! Fight! Fight! LOL!!!

[@fsujag54]

Let me know if you find it. I got on here to find the same thing.

[@BopjoWebDesign]

Thanks you for posting this. What a coincidence that I came to KZbin tonight looking for Chogyam Trungpa videos and you just posted this yesterday. I love Chogyam Trungpa's books. It's great to hear the voice behind the words. Namaste.

[@anonymousprivate116]

I like Zen and places in America like Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery. Great place for deep Zazen practice :)

[@janchup]

He was my friend. I rejected his offer of spiritual dictatorship which was presented as exactly that at the Dixville Notch Vajradhatu Seminary. I did the right thing.

[@hornybodhisattva]

you listen to Pema chodron?> she talks about this is not that enlightment can be owned we are already enlightened it is just that when that we FORGET THAT WE ARE when difficulty hits us.... so its something that we can never ever loose but rather something we forget when you are suffering!

[@pd4887]

agreed, also i asked one buddhist lama about his drinking,and she said that during that time, in the 70s there were a lot of drinking and drug use, and maybe he was taking on himself some of it, by drinking himself. I dont know whether she is right or wrong, but i saw that i was concentrating on wrong thing, i should concentrate on his teachings and my practice.

[@utubemusic7890]

Suzuki Roshi says: You may criticize him because he drinks alcohol like I drink water, but that is a minor problem. He trusts you completely. He knows that if he is always supporting you in a true sense you will not criticize him, whatever he does. And he doesn't mind whatever you say. That is not the point, you know. This kind of big spirit, without clinging to some special religion or form of practice, is necessary for human beings.[36]

[@rickbangkok]

Alcoholism is a disease not a character weakness on his part or any alcoholic's part. Womanizing, well who knows, but men do treat women differently in Asia than in the West. Monogamy is at the top level, with mistresses at the discreet private level in many Asian cultures.

[@RatatRatR]

I know about his behavior. But I wouldn't say that, by doing those things, he wasn't practicing what he preached. His Dharma talks and books weren't about drinking or smoking or any other moral prescriptions; they were about waking up to the nature of mind. And he helped a lot of people do that. Our judgments of his behavior aside, he was a brilliant teacher. PS - that isn't a Zen quotation (and Trungpa wasn't of the Zen tradition anyway); it's from the Tao Te Ching. (It's still a great line.)

[@vajrapiper]

you all have a lot of thoughts that you cling to.

[@ShunyaYoga]

Why is it that you have assumed that you are in samsara ? Is it because you have heard such a story from elsewhere ? Or is it because you have had so called "past life experiences" ? Regarding "past life experiences", it is a very delicate phenomenon. You may regain certain memories, not necessarily because you have been that or done that before. You may be accessing an area of consciousness which is collective to the species. Why have you already assumed that you are not enlightened ?

[@vik238]

@TheMoonHeron When you say that someone may act as 'good' for the sake of merit, there is definitive moral hazard in reaching a verdict about the person and his\her actions as being 'good' or 'bad'. That is, how you define 'good' has an impact on whether you define that 'good' to be materialist or not. The essence of Buddhist non-theism is not to judge someone as being 'good' or 'bad', but to reach within one's own self to become the 'good' that you think is 'good'.

[@gerundino98]

I'm not so sure, he was always waiting for Celtic to give him the call. But he was a bit too short even for Scottish soccer.

[@downpeninsula]

Wow. I had no idea.

[@RatatRatR]

@JPABLOification What did he talk about that he didn't practice?

[@jlp58mjp]

true

[@utubemusic7890]

He is reported to have remained in a state of samādhi for five days after his death, his body not immediately decaying and his heart remaining warm.[ A number of observers have reported that his cremation there on May 26, 1987 was accompanied by various atmospheric effects and other signs traditionally viewed as marks of enlightenment. These included the appearance of rainbows, of eagles circling,[and of a cloud in the shape of an Ashe

[@longde]

@CT2507 "Watch the video with Krishnamurti and Chogyam"... Are you kidding? I like Jiddu Krishnamurti a lot, but in this video he seemed to be all about blowing his own trumpet while CTR just watched him talk and talk and talk. But this is off topic.

[@funkeemon]

Because he want face to face the with the ego (devil) in him. He would challenge all the worst thing the body desires to be and he was still awake.

[@bostonpaul123]

Trungpa Rinpoche died of acute alcoholism and drug addiction. While alive, he had students waiting on him, hand and foot, and slept with hundreds of students. Before he died, he appointed a successor and named him the “Regent”. The Regent slept with many students also. He contracted AIDs and died of Aids. But, after he was diagnosed as HIV positive, he continued to sleep with students and infected at least one who later died of AIDS. So, think of all this when you emulate these people.

[@gururay]

how do you know,have you been to the well yourself. Do you speak from experience or from just what you've been told...

[@CT2507]

@longde aahh...so becoming an alcoholic is alright then, as long as u are honest about it right?! :) what about control over the mind, detachment from the obsessions of the bodily pleasures...and so on. all alcoholics know very well, that they dont control the alcohol, IT controls them!! what is even the point for a being who is concerned about reaching enlightenment to give in to alcoholism? why seek the bliss in a bottle?

[@runningturtle871]

PIN, thanks for posting this....

[@CT2507]

@TheFragmentedSoul sounds reasonable to me. i believe the enlightenment people saw in Trungpa was more an intellectualised idea rather than a true and genuine case with a practical value.

[@CT2507]

@longde of what use where then this uncorrupted teaching of his if he became an alcoholic!? and what kind of an example was he for others as an alcoholic?

[@go0ot]

He didn't do drugs but drank. He did not die of alcohol related diseases either. As for sleeping with others, in Tibet often men sleep with more than one and even many women have several husbands. Exceptions to monogamy are also not unheard of in other societies but we get semitic religions' closed minded hypocritical prudes even when atheist 'apparently'. Frankly whoever he met he benefited. He was a mahasidda, prodigy in learning & his books are miracles & no I don't even follow his school.

[@longde]

@CT2507 Your reaction is understandable. But first and foremost CTR never used alcohol as an excuse for misbehaving, as the typical person would do. Second, even when drunk he gave incredibly lucid lectures in public, so we couldn't say it impaired his judgement. Third, he never hid any of his behavior to others. He publicly acknowledged having sex with his students, more than once. And drinking, etc.

[@utubemusic7890]

I think its dangerous to judge from a mind that is full of delusion such as ours. Thing are not what they appear to be. Taking on traits, using your body as a teaching, (even if you conciously destroy it, to prove a prove a point to others) whilst keeping your mind totally pure is the art of a true Master. It's always the motivation behind every action that counts even the action appears to be negative., who on here can claim to know Trungpa's mind or motivation?

[@Paahau]

@bostonpaul123 Thanks for saying this. I have been very impressed with Trungpa's writings but found that his life did not match his teachings. He was destructive to himself and other people through abuse of drugs and sex. That's not the spriitual walk or enlightenment he speaks of in his writings. I wonder what happened to this guy? As far as the near worship others grant him claiming that to hold the man responsible for his life is a trick of the ego is ridiculous. Yet, I read his books.

[@bostonpaul123]

@smilingbuddhist This Tibetan lineage has a guru yoga practice, where one envisions one's guru (in this casde trungpa) as a divinity and everything they do as a teaching. WHat is more sad, tragic, and pathetic than being bent over by your drunken guru while trying to tell yourself that if only you were as enlightened as him, you would see that this is right behavior. They also have this "crazy wisdom" tradition which just allows further rationalization and self-delusion. People, please be aware.

[@bostonpaul123]

@smilingbuddhist and finally, this is a further problem because, in my experience, his whole organization (name now changed to Shambhala) while having many cool things to offer, has had a pattern of such abuse of power amongst its staff. So, even with trungpa gone, those with no amazing prose or wisdom forged in the hills of Tibet are taking wide-eyed students to bed and abusing chemicals. Of course judgementalism is a problem, but I make no aplogies for warning and educating prospective student

[@longde]

@dustofsoul If you really grasped the teachings in "cutting through" then you wouldn't say CTR "was into materialistic life". He wasn't. Everything he did, he did it for the benefit of his students. The disciple has to have the most connection with the guru and for that, he dressed like a westerner and did exactly what the typical hippies of his time did. In that way, the students could relate to him. He did no harm to anyone. Alcohol, sex, are bad when you hurt others.He only hurt his health!!

[@CT2507]

@longde so u are saying that Karmapa also approved of his drinking?! :)) i dont think so. but if that is true, then there is something wrong with the karmapa also!

[@longde]

No. Trungpa was indeed alcoholic and womanizer, but his teachings (the buddhism he taught) was 100% pure, uncorrupted Tibetan Buddhism of the Kagyu school, publicicly declared as such by no other than the 14º Karmapa, Rangjung Dorje... His books, particularly "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism", are highly regarded by Tibetan Buddhists, regardless of their opinion on Trungpa's life.

[@saltwindful]

How does anyone really know why he drank? Pema Chodron didn't know. His wife didn't. Noone knew, and he didnt explain himself. There is the possibility that it was selfish, and he was a charlatan, or that he did it for long ranging reasons.. such as the fact that we are STILL talking about him today, and his close students, many now teachers, are forced to examine this question every day. I don't know anyone's mind.. my own, yours or Trungpa's. Look at his whole life. He was a Teacher.

[@WrabbitWriter]

Judging others is the #1 thing you can do to keep youself from evolving. Judging why someone did this or that, lived this way or that, will not help you move forward. All teachings do not appear as good. Wrathful teachings will teach you more. Work on cleaning up your own dirty mind and look upon everything you see as your own teaching, good or bad. Meditate on these to clean up your own life.

[@CT2507]

i never said that he used alcohol as an excuse for misbehaving, so dont add that to the discussion. neither is this about what the typical person does or doesnt. im simply pointing out the selfdestructiveness at work within the life of an alcoholic and a drug adict. the ADDICTIVENESS is the main problem and the fact that he could not rid himself of it, shows failure on his spiritual path. such a person should seek help for his addiction first, and then preach. not the other way around!!!

[@CT2507]

but he does sound like a drunken ranting fool in his talk with Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti is clearly controling the entire conversation, and whenever Chogyam tries to say something he sounds like a sory excuse of a man who is drunk out of his mind. what u dont understand is that not only his words but his entire being IS his teaching! by your sense of logic u could also argue that AIDS has never affected me directly so therefor i should have a positive or passive attitude towards it!

[@longde]

@CT2507 Seems you are missing the point. If you had read any of his books, you'd know that CTR never asks you to follow him, his persona, or to behave like him. He never tells you to drink alcohol. He gives teachings which are 100.00% orthodox tibetan buddhist teachings, recognized and approved of by no other than the XVI Karmapa (google him). You are supposed to follow the teachings themselves and you certainly should have no special adoration for trungpa. There's no need for it.

[@pd4887]

you are talking just like K. Just conceptualizing, attacking the opposition just for the sake of making an argument : ) We dont have to agree, you resonate better with K. And I think TR made more sense than many other teachers... Till this day he is one the greatest teachers. Abt the drinking, my dad drinks every weekend, that doesnt make him any worse of a person : ) it's affects his liver. it is a bad habit, but it doesnt change the person fundamentally : ) you should know that too : )

[@pd4887]

instead of trying to figure out why he drank, which doesnt directly affect you, why not listen to his teachings and if those make sense to you and doesnt sound like drunken rant, try to apply them in your daily life. Otherwise it's just another needless discussion.

[@bostonpaul123]

@smilingbuddhist Well, it's fine to say not to judgte others, but this is unrealistic. Westerners have encountered a greal deal of pain and abuse of power at the hands of "easten" gurus and teachers just because they believe comments like that "don't judge others". If you go to india, they are far more discriminating because they dont idealize teachers as much. THey know that they sure as heck better make very astute judgements about who they consider a guru.

[@CT2507]

@longde haha... everything he did he did for his students!!... what about drinking. did he do that for his students too?! dont make him sound so altruistic. he was a sorry victim of drinking. something he didnt have control over. actualy he was "doing" the drinking... the drinking was "doing" him. he did plenty of harm to tibetan budhism everywhere.. there are other lamas who turn to drinking cause of him, and their students as well. because they think its ok and without consequences.

[@SereneEagle]

if i point to the moon, do not confuse my finger, for the moon.....LOL READ: :ULTIMATE HEALING

[@CT2507]

@longde i comment because blind faith in spiritual authrities often lead to stupidity. we are suppose to use our comon sense also. if vajrayana leads to and protects alcoholism it is surely worthless. although im not so sure it does. i think it is your interpretation that is limited.... just like CTR's was. im no troll... i take this quite seriously. and good luck in looking up to drunks. perhaps u should reconsider who your spiritual idols are.

[@gerundino98]

OK he might have been good at the buddhism stuff. but he'd 2 left feet when playing soccer.

[@CT2507]

its about nothing of that. Buddhism is about liberation. and that is not possible with an imbalanced alcoholic mind. period!

[@CT2507]

@longde also u are under the impression that to be a great teacher it is enough to know great heory and be good at holding discourses. but a true teacher teaches by his own example in life! what if thousands of budhist followers start drinking their brains to pieces, because this Chogyam was doing it!? watch the video with Krishnamurti and Chogyam. Krishnamurti dances around Chogyam and Chogyam cant seem to put 3 words into a sentence cause of his alcoholic brain! how is that great teaching?!?

[@CT2507]

@longde it is u who is missing the point that is more than obvious and screaming u in the face! the teachings are worthless, if they lead to alcoholism! either u control the alcohol, or the alcohol controls u. there is no middle path here. perhaps its time to get real and throw those teachings to the garbage!

[@metronomic1]

@TheMoonHeron He was a failure

[@janchup]

He was my friend. I rejected his offer of spiritual dictatorship which was presented as exactly that at the Dixville Notch Vajradhatu Seminary. I did the right thing.