Choose Your Dough Conditioner: Stave Off Staling with Common Ingredients . WTF - Ep. 336

[@alexschubert]

As hydration is usually the factor in keeping the bread fresh, maybe a calculator or something to figure out the maximum amount of liquid the bread can hold using the additives and cooked flour? cool video:)

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Interesting idea!

[@alexschubert]

@@Modernist_Pantry thanks I've been comparing tangzhong vs yudane

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Hey Alex congrats on winning this week's giveaway! Please write in to [e-mail] to claim your dough conditioners 🍞😎

[@alexschubert]

@@Modernist_Pantry awesome

[@stevealexander8010]

I'd describe it a bit differently. Hydration has a huge impact on crumb & structure. It's not critical in staling. Bread staling involve 'retrogradation' or recrystallization of the starch , specifically amylopectin, molecules. The amylopectin is a huge molecule, polymer of glucose, arranged in a tree structure with one reducing end, and hundreds to thousands of non-reducing tips. The 'straight' distance between branch points in the tree averages about 20 to 22 glucose molecules for typical grain starch. The 'tree' is crystallized into a tight granule before cooking. When heated in the the presence of water the 'tree' unfurls and a huge number of water molecules are entrapped between the branches. A fully hydrated starch will entrap about 7 times the mass of water in a mass of flour. So even a rather wet/sticky dough (70% hydration) has only enough water to fully hydrate ~10% of the starch ! When not fully hydrated, the straight branch segments align and form weak hydrogen bonds and .... stale. There is no way, in a practical bread, to include enough water to prevent all retrogradatiuon. This re-crystallization is retarded under acid conditions, and at low temperatures. In tangzhong & yudane, a small fraction of the flour is (mostly) hydrated, and this has a remarkable impact on texture. Perhaps the more hydrated starch share bonds with the less-so; I have no detailed explanation.

[@harrisonphiri2837]

Amazing stuff

[@Modernist_Pantry]

thank you!

[@nee_nyk]

Nice video with great insights. Are conditioners used in (non-yeast) breads like Tortillas? Also what preservatives are used in Tortillas which we seen on grocery shelf life of 3 months at normal temperature?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

You can still use sorbic acid, most commercial recipes use a combination of sorbic acid and calcium propionate for preservation and a variety of emulsifiers and gums to retain the texture.

[@janelmore6677]

This topic is very timely as I am currently trying to figure out how to make my whole wheat bread nicer! I use dough conditioners and some have salt and some do not. I would love to make a better whole wheat tortilla as well...like a soft wrap !!!!!

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Great idea!

[@magikdust2095]

I recently used something called "Fleischmann's Bread Booster" and it made the softest bread I've ever made, and it stayed soft for days... it also gave it a better flavour, made it rise faster, and made it rise higher...

[@SamPopkin-pq4ye]

I put my soudough in a refrigerator for 12-16 hours before baking. Will that work with Sodium alginate? You only tested with breads that rose two hours and I am not sure if using starter and/or longer time before baking would work better with a different additive.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

For your appilcation I would recommend the Amylase, that is better for a longer rise

[@pweisskirch5408]

I'm interested in the amylase even though you didn't love it. I understand why they would help with the rise, but how do they impact flavor? What about sweet doughs like challah? Also, are any of these especially good for rye bread?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Amylase is great for a long ferment, which we didn't do here. We may try again another day. They do not impact flavor. And you can use any of these in any type of bread. We used lecithin in our challah recipe. blog.modernistpantry.com/recipes/happy-challah-days/

[@vickeycobb3308]

Do these products work with the Keto Egg White bread? I use Indigo Nili's recipe with the frozen grated butter. It is great but still somewhat foam like. Would these items maybe lessen that texture? I would love to see you guys have a play around with the Egg White bread.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

You can try them, but it won't work the same way since those breads have no flour of any kind. They're really more fluffy meringues.

[@michaeljensen7896]

One of my baking problems, that I’m trying to solve, is an ultra-fast microwave cake for when last minute friends or grandkids arrive. I have the whipping siphon recipe, but would like a non-siphon recipe that is more like Devils Food. I want some nice springiness like the loaves here.

[@michaeljensen7896]

All of the recipes online for microwave cake are mug cakes and do not scale well. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Very interesting idea!

[@robertspano4468]

instead of adding lecithin why not add an egg yolk? I am curious why (assuming all breads rose for the same amount of time) the control loaf is taller. please discuss the effect the dough conditioners had on the crust texture- thank you

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Not all breads use eggs. If your bread already has eggs then it does already contain lecithin, which is great. But more dough conditioners will also help breads containing dough. I think the control loaf looking taller is an effect of the angle because in person it was not taller. We may have to cover crusts in a separate episode!

[@ChrisHowell-x6u]

Would this be effective in laminated doughs without impacting flavor ?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

This is a great question. We haven't tried it with laminated doughs. It definitely wouldn't affect the flavor, but we haven't tested if it would affect the texture. Should definitely test with a croissant.

[@magikdust2095]

I live in Canada, and I recently bought something called "Bread booster" made by "Fleischmann's" and it made the softest bread I've ever made. It's about $5 (CAD) for 100g, but you also only need a teaspoon per cup of flour (120g)... but it's so worth it. It makes your bread last longer, rise higher, and it makes it so, so soft... I used it with a tangzhong enriched dough, so I also added milk, eggs, and butter, and I made a tangzhong beforehand and added that. Then I baked the bread to an internal temperature of 180°F to 190°F, which is the temperature recommended for enriched doughs. It came out to be the softest bread I've ever made, and it stayed soft and fluffy even days later, and in my opinion, it also gave it a better flavour. I'll probably never make bread without it again. It was so worth it, even though you get such a small amount... but i don't think buying all the bread improving ingredients separately would be much better in price anyway... and now I know it works. So, if you want to make softer bread or really soft cinnamon buns, and you want them to last longer before going stale, then I highly recommend using Fleischmann's Bread Booster.

[@kinbolluck476]

I shall try this fellow Canadian

[@magikdust2095]

@kinbolluck476 I found it really helpful in making soft homemade bread that doesn't stale as fast.

[@PinkLady54]

I'm in the keto bread &/or egg white bread group; I read the comments & replies so far. So, these things are only wheat related helpers?? Sodium alginate only hold more moisture for grain based breads?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Keto breads are not traditional doughs so while the ingredients might help the recipe because they are emulsifiers and multi-functional, they will not be 'dough conditioning' in the classic sense. For example sodium alginate is a gelling agent, will gelling improve a keto bread? Maybe. That will take testing.

[@mosherubin5704]

Can you discuss the use of Na alginate and other ingredients for acid reflux?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Sorry that is not an area where we have an any expertise. We strictly deal with food applications and do not give any medical advice.

[@MuhammadAhmad-rt5nr]

Can we use ascorbic acid in nuts and fruits bars for baked ones

[@Modernist_Pantry]

You can, but it may not be as effective because bars have a lot of solids throughout.

[@TheNicklesPickles]

Freshly baked bread rarely lasts long enough in our home to worry about it going stale. 😂

[@doomo]

How do you feel about SSL. ? I was under the impression it was a very effective anti staler.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

We like SSL, it was part of our test but we ended up liking these 3 better. Also we felt it was more likely that people already had these 3 ingredients versus SSL which is more specific to baking.

[@johncrisman576]

I am in search of a Keto bread substitute recipe. My best commercial bread to date is from Aunt Millie. Anything without almond flour is preferred.

[@DavidFSloneEsq]

I know that the folks at VPN are very specific about what can actually go into Neapolitan Pizza, but are there any modernist ingredients that can be used to guarantee a crisp yet moist and airy crust?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

A lot of it comes down to the flour, we have a few pizza recipes that we like but we haven't tried putting in our additives to see if they boost the recipes. EverCrisp comes to mind immediately and would be interesting to test out. modernistpantry.com/products/evercrisp-breader-batter-boost.html

[@fruzsinapataky4172]

Which dough conditioner would be best for use in a bread machine?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

You can use any since the bread machine doesn't change the effect of dough conditioners.

[@yonashopiahawaii]

Which of these product can prolong pastry fillings shelf life

[@Modernist_Pantry]

filling is a whole different area

[@permanentwave]

Vinegar helps as well

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Yes, but potentially would have a taste impact

[@juliegrasser1996]

What kind of breads need dough conditioners

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Any bread can benefit from dough conditioners.

[@rrrrr5102006]

How much Sodium Alginate do I put in bread?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

check out our reference sheet for this article here: blog.modernistpantry.com/advice/what-is-a-dough-conditioner/

[@fruzsinapataky4172]

Which of these dough conditioners would work in a bread machine?

[@Modernist_Pantry]

All of them

[@FireEverLiving]

I don't want to win the contest, but one thing I'd be curious about is how to get that really robust yeasty flavor that some fresh breads have. I've tried some tips online, but I've only been able to achieve like 25% of the strong yeasty flavor I want. I'd also be curious to learn about DATEM, since it's a common ingredient on store-bought bread.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Using more yeast with shorter fermentation times can make the bread taste more yeasty. You can also add in deactivated yeast.

[@ssmm6811]

What is the best product for croissants to keep them fresh and crispy for more than 3 days? What are the strongest and most effective of these products, to be used to make sour and brioche bread?

[@tomharmon3710]

French bread...? Beginner bread baker here...I know nothing. Ty Tom

[@Modernist_Pantry]

works for any bread

[@Raul28153]

You can keep bread fresher longer and prevent mold using a little vinegar and a pregelatinized starch any starch Wheat, potato, Rice; pick any starch. Right now, all the cool kids are chasing the Tartine method and want a VERY UNEVEN crumb. They want huge gaping holes lots of 'em.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Interesting!

[@scooter7758]

I would love to see an episode on Cake additives that can improve moisture and crumb of your standard cakes. It's always nice to know new ways you can use the ingredients you already have in your modernist pantry.

[@Modernist_Pantry]

Stay tuned!

[@amitavaghosh525]

Why is dancing during explosions