Choosing a kayak paddle!

[@maze400]

Great job as always. I have a Warner Ikelos, Kalliste and an older non carbon fiber model but to be honest, now, I only paddle with my GP made by Lars Gram. It is the best, lightest and strongest paddle I've ever used. Warner is an awesome company and they stand behind their awesome products. I have nothing but praise for them!

[@AdventureOtaku]

yeah, I am just not a Greenland paddler. I am considering doing a lesson with a local instructor who teaches Greenland. People love them, but to be honest a lot of people - I need to stress, not you! - come across as a little "culty" which for me is a turn off.

[@The_Mister]

This is true. When I got my first kayak, it wasn’t super well thought out. I just wanted something to get me out on the water, and when I thought of “good paddles” I thought strong - meaning aluminum. It was fun enough to get hooked but I couldn’t paddle too far. I’d get tired and just enjoyed relaxing in the boat on the lake. But then I got a good deal on a used Dagger that came with a Bending Branches fiberglass shaft paddle - it was old, but holy cow even this old set up allowed me to quadruple how far I could paddle and how long I could paddle without becoming fatigued. Then I bought a carbon fiber paddle and oh my goodness what a difference. All I can say is that if you’re just getting into this and you want something better than the crappy plastic paddle that comes with your Lifetime kayak but don’t want to spend much money, get the fiberglass paddle that Walmart sells as your paddle upgrade. It’s super cheap and you won’t be out a ton of dough when you decide to really upgrade.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Absolutely. I frequent tell people (and I may have said this more than once lately) before you upgrade your boat, upgrade your paddle. It will change your life.

[@nativewatersports2746]

You are right on. Opened an account with Werner in 2006ish Got myself a Kalliste. Still selling Werner and still paddling Kallistes.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, I wont paddle anything else! Thanks for stopping by.

[@paulmartin5889]

Most high angle paddlers chose the ‘odd-ball’ (your word) 205 cm length of paddle. Personally, I paddle with a Lendal Storm and Werner Cyprus at 205cm. Both are great paddles.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I meant no offense by using odd-ball, most paddle sizes are even numbered. Most of the paddlers in my world are low angle paddlers and live in the 220/230 zone. . shhhh… rumor has it I may be testing out a Lendal Storm in the coming weeks. But don’t tell anyone.

[@ashvanes484]

All I know is I LOVE my Werner full carbon (circa 2003, I would love to know what model it is, I don't know any name for it). If memory serves, the feathering selector was fairly new around then (not all the paddles had them, I think they all use it now). Like you say, after the huge outlay for the boat it seemed way expensive, so it wasn't part of that initial purchase, but I knew I wanted one. When I first got it, I worried I'd break it on rocks. If I could go back in time and tell my 20 years younger self to chill about it because I'd still have both my boat and and my paddle decades later in great condition, I would... well one small gripe is the angle guide is wearing off so I kinda have to guess, the sticker ones fell off a gazillion years ago tho.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yeah, I went through I think 3 sets of the the feather stickers on one paddle.

[@Ryanstuff]

Just got into kayaking and learning a bit more about upgrading a paddle. It was very interesting how you went over the weight of a paddle and how much weight you would save over a long distance. My only question is doesn't that all fall to the wayside when the paddle actually contacts the water and you're propelling yourself forward? I feel like I understand what you mean as far as a weight savings in the paddle while holding it and swinging it left and right but I feel like regardless of the style paddle you have you have to apply essentially a similar amount of force into the water to actually propel yourself. I would think it would have a lot more to do with the weight of your kayak and gear and less to do with the paddle at that point.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Great question, and I will say, my knowledge of physics (or lack thereof) will limit my ability to explain this. Yes, I am using a similar amount of force to move the paddle through the water. And yes I have to use more force to get a loaded boat going - though once its going it is just a little more force than a unloaded boat due to momentum. But regardless of the amount of force applied to the paddle for forward movement, I still have to hold the paddle in the air, and that is where you feel the difference between a light paddle and a heavy paddle. If you are going to hold something for 6 hours would you rather it be light or heavy? There is one more thing. A lighter paddle “flows” better. It takes less effort to transition from stroke to stroke, to blend a forward stroke into sweep stroke. Light paddles just feel better, particularly on long days. This concept may become a video, thanks for asking about it.

[@onemondaynight]

I have a question for you: I'm an intermediate paddler. I currently paddle a Dagger Stratos 14.5L and I use a high-angle Werner paddle (Cyprus, I think). However, many of my goals involve building my ability to travel long distances for multi-day kayak touring. Should I change to a lower angle paddle and paddling style to make it less fatiguing on my body on longer trips? Thanks in advance!

[@AdventureOtaku]

So my question is how did you end up a high angle paddler? Were you taught that way? Did you come from Whitewater (which is primarily high angle.) Low angle is better suited to long distance stuff, but if you are managing distance without pain or fatigue maybe you don't have to change.

[@onemondaynight]

I ended up high-angle padding because the dude who sold me the kayak also sold me his Werner Corryvrecken bent-shaft paddle at a really good price. Also, when I would read guides on high versus low angle, many of them were worded in such a way that it sounded as if low-angle was only for people who don't care about performance. But I found that I did get fatigued on longer paddles and felt more strain on my shoulder. I've purchased a low-angle paddle since I first posted, but now I'm wondering about blade shape. I bought an Aquabound Stingray Carbon (though I kept thinking I should spend the extra hundred bucks for the Werner Camano). So my next question is if I need a larger, wider paddle blade for maneuvering.

[@AdventureOtaku]

The short answer is no. Here is the longer answer. While paddle angle decisions and maneuvering maybe suited better by certain paddles and blade shapes. It doesn’t mean you can’t mix and match. I use the Werner Camano because it is a great low angle paddle, but that doesn’t mean I can’t slide into a high angle style for a dozen stroke sprint. It is a fairly small blade but it does a fine job turning and bracing my boat. A larger blade would accomplish those things quicker, so may be more vital in surf, or whitewater but it is fine for what I do. Yes, if you are getting fatigued, maybe switch to a low angle style, and if that is what you are going to do all day long I would choose a paddle that suits it. Maybe if you plan on spending a lot of time in surf you will want a larger blade, but keep in mind people paddle in surf with Greenland paddles and do just fine.

[@paulchevrier9961]

I recently came across your channel, very good and informative videos. Thank you for posting and sharing your knowledge and experience with us. My question, have you ever tried a Greenland Paddle? There are companies that make carbon fiber Greenland paddles and small independent paddle makers that sell Greenland paddles. Or you can carve your own yourself.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Hey thanks for stopping by and taking the time to watch AND leave a comment. I have tried Greenland paddles… I actually used one for a bit on my last Alaska trip. I don’t love the slightly higher cadence you need with them, and I prefer a little more bite that I get from a euro blade… But I think a lot of people like them, and if they work well for those folks, that’s great.

[@documetricsinc.6135]

I'm with you on full carbon paddles, I have 4 of them myself (2 Werner high/low angle, 2 Epic wings), I love them, but I have to call you out on your reasoning about the "well over 2 tons" that you have to lift". You are putting a lot more than 2 oz per stroke into propelling yourself forward with each stroke so what difference does 2 oz really make? 15,000 strokes exerting the force of pulling against the water (let's say just 10+ pounds x 15,000 strokes) will tire you much more than an insignificant extra 2 oz of paddle weight. Don't you agree? Think about an ergo paddling machine, no paddle, just a shaft with resistance, but you can get tired in much less than 4 hours.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Well, im not gonna argue your math - I would point out that you should be pushing the paddle, not pulling it... - I use the concept of 2 ounces as an example that lighter is better. So I would say, if that 2 ounces doesn't matter, then go save yourself a bunch of money and paddle with aluminum shafted paddles. When I put a carbon paddle in the hands of a student and you see how much they prefer the lighter paddle.. So yes, I agree that you are exerting more force propelling the boat, but if you can save a few ounces, isn't that better?

[@gabegm]

Hello. I just noticed that you have your delta seat mod. Is that for better fit for rolling? I’m currently attempting to find best way to modify my seat for more comfort when rolling my Delta 16”. I find it very uncomfortable when bringing by back up to the boat right behind the seat. I have the contour seat with some foam behind seat. What kind of foam do you have on yours.

[@AdventureOtaku]

That’s an older video. I used closed cell foam for the seat back a) because the old seat back broke and b) because I wanted less back there during self rescues. I am currently in a newer D17 with the standard contour seat, but I have it lowered as far as it will go and reclined as far as it will go, so I barely feel it and it doesn’t get in the way. I did a video on seat backs and it comes up again in the D17 long term review.

[@gabegm]

I will check those out. Lots of great info on your channel, thank you!! Getting my first Werner paddle this week a Cyprus Carbon paddle.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Thanks for watching! Enjoy that paddle!

[@ChristopherMarshburn]

I’m guessing your not in sit-on-top world but we generally need longer paddles. Werner makes paddles up to 260 cm in length, and some very good adjustable length paddles, like the Camano Fiberglass Adjustable for $315.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I have certainly paddled sit on tops, but you are right, I don’t own one. 260 is a lot of paddle!

[@ChristopherMarshburn]

@@AdventureOtaku 260 might work for someone over 6’ with a seat riser. My kayak is 34” wide and I’m 5’9” do 250 is about right. I’m in the South and both recreational kayaking and kayak fishing have exploded down here.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I’m in the south, and teach kayaking! I am living with the explosion! I wish I could convince fisherman that they need to actually know how to paddle! They could control the boat better, and get more fish.

[@Ryanstuff]

@@ChristopherMarshburn Exactly. I just purchased a pontoon style kayak, basically more of a small raft really. It's 36 in in width with a very high seat and I'm 6'1. It came with an adjustable paddle and it seems as though 260 cm is perfect based on my seating position, clearing the pontoons, and making good contact with the water. The paddle it came with is actually pretty good but I'll be looking to buy a second paddle for when I go tandem and that second paddle will definitely be a nicer one.

[@Obliticus]

Aqua Bound makes some really nice, American made, carbon fiber paddles for half the cost of a Werner. For 99.9% of us, the only difference we would notice is walking out of the store with a fatter wallet.

[@helenwilliamson1420]

Hi I’ve just found your channel and love it. Really found this film interesting and very helpful but would love to know your thoughts on straight shaft vs bent shaft? I’m in the process of seeking a paddle for coastal touring around the Scotland. 😊

[@AdventureOtaku]

Scotland sounds like fun. Check out my video on flat vs feathered ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGSVqneFmb6tZ5I )for my thoughts on bent shaft. But regardless of my opinion, I would try one out and see what you think.

[@Trapster99]

My two cents worth: Yes, Werner brand makes a very good kayak paddle. They come in all types of configurations, all are quality. On the other hand, in order to get a good sense of what Your Paddle should be, you will have to try out many different ones. Some are bent, some can be feathered, some have very small paddle surfaces, some have highly curved surfaces. Try them out, the one that feels 'right' for you, that's you paddle. Just like your kayak, you have to become One with your paddle.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Totally agree, and I never recommend people start with an amazing paddle, be it Werner or someone else. But I never recommend starting with a really lousy paddle. That just isn’t good for anyone.

[@burr130]

Where are you paddling at in the first half of the video? The water looks so calm!

[@AdventureOtaku]

This was shot at a lake in the center of North Carolina. Lake Brandt is where I shot a lot of my NC videos.

[@fierceblossoming]

Ah! Perfect timing on this video!!! I am actively shopping for a new paddle, which has been difficult because of covid stuff and because everything seems to be sold out everywhere. Any advice would be super helpful... I’ve been using an Accent Energy Carbon 230cm - I like that it’s light weight but I feather the paddle at about 30° and the grips on it are causing me issues. I’m also not sure the length is appropriate - it feels a little long to me (I’m 5’8”) but I have no actual evidence for that opinion... it’s just a hunch. I have a light grip but I’m still ending up with blisters and sometimes even wrist pain. I’ve been super mindful of trying to use proper form on my forward stroke and while I’m sure it can still use improvement, I want to upgrade my paddle and see if that makes a difference. I think part of the problem is my current paddle has these built in bulky grips made of some kind of weird rubber material that doesn’t feel ergonomic and just feels weird. I paddle flat water lakes and usually go for distance - about 5-8 miles a day over about 1-2 hours, three times a week minimum. I’m considering a Werner Athena or Kalliste. Any opinions? Also, what’s your opinion on feathering? What about bent shaft vs straight? Also (again haha) do you ever lead group expeditions on the west coast or Alaska?

[@AdventureOtaku]

fierceblossoming Okay, a lot to unpack here, but happy to do it. Part of the equation for paddle length (besides height) is boat width, and to a degree paddling style. Check out the Werner fit guide on their website. But it does sound like 230 is long. I’m 5’7” and paddle a 220 and that is almost a little long for me. Blisters are generally an indicator of gripping the paddle too tightly, you say you have a light grip, so I would have to see video. Paddle weight or length shouldn’t cause blisters. Wrist pain sounds like its over use, or repetitive stress. Is the wrist pain on the wrist you control the paddle with? Yes, bulky grips are a waste. They add weight, and determine where your hands should be. There is no way (well, very slim chance) they are in the right place, and they add weight, and it sounds like they aren’t comfortable. I’m not familiar with the accent energy, but from the sound of it I don’t think its a great choice. I used the Kalliste for two different Alaska trips before I downgraded to the Camano carbon. Primarily because it weighs less, over time I decided I didn’t like the added buoyancy of the foam core on the kalliste. It forces you to hold the paddle a little tighter or it wiggles in the water. I love the Werner carbon camano. Great paddle, light weight, only breaks the bank a little..... I haven’t paddled the Athena, but if I recall correctly, its a bigger blade, which means slower stroke rate.... a little harder to move through the water... I ONLY feather when I am paddling into the wind. Otherwise I paddle flat. As a paddler with decades of paddling, I work hard to minimize the impacts on my body so I can keep doing it for a long time. So removing that wrist flick with the feathered paddle was a no brainer for me. Keep in mind your two hour paddle, three times a week, you are doing about 10,000 wrist flicks per session. That’s 30K wrist flicks a week. That makes my wrists hurt just thinking about it. I don’t want that added wear and tear on my wrists. Admittedly some instructors say to pick one, flat or feathered and stick with it, I break that rule. It works well for me. I don’t do bent shaft. Ive paddled it a few times.... I don’t think it makes sense (unless you have underlying wrist or elbow issues). It makes the paddle heavier, and we spend a lot of money to make them lighter. It dictates where my hands are supposed to be, which I don’t like. I don’t think there is one size fits all for anything! Most of all paddles. Also keep in mind, bent shaft, and feathering comes from competitive white water paddling, not sure it has a place in kayak touring. That said, if it works for you.... The theme here, for me is simplicity. My first book combined martial arts, buddhism, and kayaking (Enlightened Kayaking) and I borrowed a lot from Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do. Break things down to their simplest. Minimize movement. Everything will happen easier, smoother, more fluidly. It’s all about being fluid with the boat, being one with the boat and paddle.... I don’t have any plans to lead anything in Alaska, though I am starting to get people asking me to do that - admittedly they are mostly paddling instructors I know. I had plans to run a pair of “Expedition skills camps” on the east coast. Which teaches all the skills for long distance touring... But I have to wait until it can be done COVID safe. Follow me here and instagram and you will see when I am doing those. If you come east Ill get you a boat for the weekend. Thanks for the comment. You can always reach out to me via instagram with more questions. At the end of the day I want people out there paddling efficiently, smoothly. Safely.

[@fierceblossoming]

Adventure Otaku this is super helpful. Thank you!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Glad to be able to help.

[@QPONPOWER1]

What is the curve in the center of your paddle?

[@AdventureOtaku]

I suspect it is a distortion from the 360 camera. I paddle a straight shaft.

[@Obliticus]

@@AdventureOtaku I am sure he is talking about the paddle blade, not the shaft...

[@Obliticus]

Werner is like GoreTex... over priced for the elites. 99.9% of us will get everything we could ask of a Werner, at half the cost, by going with a more reasonably priced brand.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I disagree. I’ve paddled with a lot of paddles and havent found anything close, certainly not at half the price. Give me an example, what should I try? The closest I have found is the aquabounds, but I don’t like the joint mechanism. I will confess I did just notice that there was a price increase which I wasn’t too happy about, but I feel like everything has gotten a price increase lately.

[@AdventureOtaku]

You’ve fired me up! I leave for Europe tomorrow… When I get back I am going to try and locate paddles to do some testing and make a video. You say 99.9% of “us” I guess you mean paddlers, will get everything we could ask with something else… My question for you is “what do you ask of a paddle?” That’s a serious question because it might be very different than what I ask of a paddle. What kind of paddling do you do? What do you look for in a paddle. I am being serious, this is going to be a video - if I can find the paddles and afford to buy them! You can email me if you want, [e-mail].

[@Obliticus]

@@AdventureOtaku I just picked up an all carbon Aqua Bound Manta Ray for $157... less than half the price of an equivalent Werner. And Aqua Bound has 3 different joint mechanisms, have you tried all 3?

[@Obliticus]

@@AdventureOtaku Honestly, just look at Aqua Bound. It's like comparing a Lamborghini (Werner) to a Corvette (Aqua Bound). 99% of us will not have the skill to drive the Lamborghini any better than we can drive the Corvette. But we will save a boat load of money buying the Corvette.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Interesting comparison. I’ve paddled some aquabounds but I’ll give ‘em another look