Choosing a Kayak Understanding Rocker

[@ms.kayak7seas]

Hi and thanks, Adventure Otaku for sharing. As always, very informative, especially the comparison between your new and old kayaks. Very helpful when I purchase a sea kayak. Thank you again. 🙋‍♀🙋‍♀🛶🛶

[@AdventureOtaku]

You’re welcome!

[@jayspot4]

Excellent explanation of different style of kayaks - you make it easier for newbies to understand and showing the videos is an added plus! Thank you so much - would be an honour to paddle with you!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching. And depending on where you are located, paddling is possible.

[@jayspot4]

@@AdventureOtaku I’m located in Vancouver BC - if you’re ever up this way I’d be more than happy to show you our waterways!

[@AdventureOtaku]

I’ve paddled there, you are very lucky! I have a friend who lives near whistler. When I am in the area next Ill let you know.

[@jayspot4]

@@AdventureOtaku looking forward to it sir!

[@josephshaff5194]

Awesome thanks. I really enjoy hearing about the design side. Completing a Sea Kayaking course in 'Stability' online "Dancing with the Sea". I'm hoping to move into a Riot 16 for next boat in a couple years. Got out yesterday trying to work on things toward ACA Basic and Intermediate. Looking forward to your next vid! Yes thanks again so much for sharing!

[@AdventureOtaku]

thanks for watching!

[@tommycheshire5508]

I would loved to have purchased your old boat. It would be like having a piece of history!

[@AdventureOtaku]

It pained me to sell it. But I couldn’t justify having two, and couldn’t store both. And I was starting to signs of aging that made me concerned to use it on big trips. She went to a good home.

[@waynefatguyinakayak7408]

@@AdventureOtaku Easy way to justify having two boats, one for distance, one for play! The more rocker a boat has, the more agile it is for surfing waves. The real trick is justifying additional boats from then on, unless you start doing even more paddling based activities, like whitewater, fishing, racing, greenland rolling, etc.

[@RemyDarke]

Good info. You could probably create a whole series expanding on hull and deck forms. Fish form can usually be turned while on edge quicker than Swede and symmetrical tend to be neutral when having the same amount of rocker and secondary stability. Stellar touring and racing kayaks are close to no rocker and P&H's new Valkyrie is almost truly rockerless. If you paddle those types of boats in any type of wave it's a very wet ride as they plow through. Extended bows were used to help combat that but I don't really think it helped over plumb or near plumb bows. I've always preferred boats with a higher secondary stability but then you end up with a "tippy" boat only an experienced kayaker will tend to buy. Not exactly a big seller. So everything is compromise unless you build or order a custom boat. Oh and I found some Grillo's pickles in my area finally. Damn good pickle.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I could create a whole series, except I am probably at the limit of my knowledge on the topics. Thanks for such an in depth comment though. And yes, Grillos are amazing. If only they would sponsor me.

[@RemyDarke]

@@AdventureOtaku You covered most of the important parts for people looking for a touring or daytripper. I did hear back from P&H too. The Cetus LV-X was one of their experimental designs. It's a LV hull with a MV deck. They said it wasn't well received because it was too tippy. They think it's the only one brought to the US and it may be the only one built in full expedition layup. Less than 10 were built.

[@lisaklepp5167]

I am really loving your channel and videos! I have a Wilderness Systems Epic and it has become a beast to lift after 20 years of ownership. I can’t even lift it up to the hullavator. Need a lighter more manageable boat but still want the performance. I am 6 ft 155. Looking at the Delta 15.5 or 16 with rudder. Opinions? I really want to get back on the water and paddle more but need to be independent with loading! Thanks!!!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Hey Lisa, I think either of those will work, but why don’t you email me BrettATadventureotaku.com so I can get some more details. For starters where are you paddling?

[@kevincasey2947]

Whenever I lend out one of my boats I tell people; "If you pee in my boat, I keel you!" 🤣

[@AdventureOtaku]

Stolen! Though I n fairness on long trips people usually pee in the boats… well in a bottle in the boats.

[@kevincasey2947]

@@AdventureOtaku 😫 Not to steel your thread but being able to pee successfully in a kayak isn't a given! Paddlers are all scrunched up in a non pee position in restrictive clothing! I was with a group once and one of the guys yelped in pain because he popped his penis while trying to pee. He said later when we made camp he was bleeding and unable to pee. I was beside myself for a first aid solution for this. Eventually he did but he was in considerable pain and he said he passed a sizable blood clot. I don't really know what we would, or could have done if he simply couldn't pee. It was actually kind of scary!

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yikes that is some story. and will also get stolen. On NOLS courses it is a topic that is covered. It is definitely a skill that requires practice. When I know I am going to be doing a long day there is a pee bottle in the cockpit with me. However, this is a video I will NOT be making in the future.

[@markpearman2631]

The height of the deck makes a difference with weather cocking not just the Hull shape.

[@AdventureOtaku]

It absolutely can, but far less. As can what you put on your deck! I really like to keep my deck pretty clean. Also keep in mind 2 things - 1 this is a video aimed at people who are just starting out. and 2 it is talking about rocker specifically. not specifically what causes weather cocking. But you're right. deck height, and shape can effect how a boat weather cocks, or lee cocks...

[@bobrein8093]

Excellent explanation. Do you know what type of rocker the 16 has? Mine is still in the shop so I can't check it myself.

[@AdventureOtaku]

I recall the rocker on the 16 I had as pretty flat… but that boat was like a 2014….it may have changed.

[@kimmokonttinen5101]

Hi! Like your insightful videos around kayaking. Many with good information to beginners too. There is couple of things I hope you can share your thoughts about in later videos. I have a Boreal Design Baffin P3 sea kayak. And the back rest is relatively low to make it easy to roll and lean back. But as a relatively new paddler with not enough core strength, I'm still struggling to hold an upright position without beginning to lean backwards after a while. I have seen your video about kayak seats. But are there solutions to temporarily improve the backrest support while improving the core strength and sitting position? Have you as an instructor any thoughts around sea kayaking and people struggling with weight, disabilities, knee problems? An ordinary sea kayak cockpit can often be a challenge for people not so flexible or large people. I see relatively thin women can struggle to fit in a normal sized cockpit since they can have more of the extra weight around the lower parts, and normal cockpits are not very wide. I myself struggle with bending knees enough to enter gracefully into my kayak, and the exit often is fastest and easiest with a wet exit after 1/4 - 1/3 roll. You can consider sit-on-top kayaks, but the often much lower speed make you fall behind other sea kayakers, and SOT kayaks is not always as good for longer trips with rougher sea. Have you experience or advice on using sea kayaks for these kind of people, or is this a real limitation for these people? There is more and more work done to get new categories of paddlers on the water, but feel these things is not often mentioned as important considerations when considering to begin kayaking?

[@AdventureOtaku]

These are legitimate problems, and I am going to do a video specifically about them, so thank you for bringing it up. A number of things to respond to here. 1) you chose a pretty high performance kayak. The Baffin p3 is a composite layup boat designed for high performance. By the very nature of a boat like that it is going to have a tight cockpit and a small seat back. It illustrates the importance of test paddling (or at least sitting in) a kayak before you buy it. I would have recommended a boat like the Tsunami 145 first, and then upgrade to the Baffin. If you can’t get you legs into the boat, try sitting on the back deck, putting your legs in, and then slide down into the kayak. Practice this on the grass before trying it for real. Getting out is the reverse. Paddle the boat right onto sand so it is stable, and then slide onto the back deck, then pull your legs out and stand up. The core strength issue is a double edged sword. If you add something to the seat to give more support, you wont add strength. When I have students with this issue i hand them off a personal trainer I work with to get their core strength up, before they start doing longer days in the boat. In the meantime try this. If you watch TV at night, do so sitting on the floor the way you would sit in the boat. Legs out in front of you, back straight and head upright. We need to build that core strength. I do a ridiculous amount of core exercises to keep my core strength up as I get older. I hope this helps, be looking for a video in the next month or so. Thanks for the comment.

[@kimmokonttinen5101]

@@AdventureOtaku Thanks for good advice and ideas on building core strength at home! Agree on your views. I contacted a personal trainer a while ago, to work up the strength, as I too had the double edged sword thoughts on adding at least more permanent back rest solutions. I think your suggestion on the Tsunami 145 was very good when looking at the spec's. But I wonder if many here in our part of the world. At least in Norway still thinks that kayaking is something just thin and fit persons do. In my search for suitable kayaks, the larger dealers had no other advice than a Baffin P3 or Prijon Grizzly with both having little large cockpit openings and right weight capacity. If I had found more suitable kayaks like the Tsunami I would certainly tried them out if possible. One of the results of people thinking that kayaking is for one type of people, you relatively often come across comments in our national kayaking communities stating that SOT's and wider kayaks are only for children to play with on the beach. Changes are coming though.....

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yes, and I see the same thoughts and prejudice against people that "don't look like" they should be doing a sport, and generally they do amazingly. We come in all shapes and sizes... there should be boats to fit us. I shot a video this week that will go live in about a month that will talk about this. thanks for the comment, its important and one we have to be having more often.

[@JakkeLehtonen-Jagster]

That rounder chime (and lack or rocker, because it has some role too) - how do you feel, is keeping boat on steady edge harder now, or just same compared to old one after you learned control it in new 17?

[@AdventureOtaku]

It is definitely harder to hold this new seventeen on edge than the old one. I think it is more chine than rocker. Great question.

[@Hiillosmakkara1]

If one is heading for long distances in lakes / seas, would there be situations where you would like to have a turning capabilities rather than tracking capabilities? I really can’t imagine any? Another thing: going heavy downwind with reasonably rough waves, is rocker advantage or disadvantage? I consider a feeling of primary stability as an advantage in any conditions. I paddle Wavesport Hydra. I guess it has some rocker in it. Going at 10 m/s downwind at open lake another day. Downwind itself is fine but when the waves started to emerge, that was not comfortable at all 😬. Deploing the skeg fully open helped a lot though. It does not only help going straight but also kind of stables the kayak? Turned back straight headwind: no problems at all. Went perfectly straight through waves with comfort. Maybe it’s just my rookiness? Would less rocker help in wavy conditions? Or more length?

[@AdventureOtaku]

Okay… a lot going on here… Ill do my best. These are in reverse order as I am working my way back up your comment! Less rocker in a cross wind is better. Because the boat will track better. Which if you follow that train of thought, less rocker in downwind might make it harder for the boat to track straight (but there are other factors here too) Downwind, the skeg fully deployed will help tracking. But a fully deployed skeg in a cross wind will make the boat lee cock - turn into the wind. So be careful. Primary stability is great, until it isn’t As a new paddler it feels great, when you want to start edging it can make it more difficult. Not having rocker - so the boat tracks really well is great for king distance stuff, on lakes or other open water. It is why touring kayaks tend to have less… but then there will be a day when you need to turn quickly… and it wont. Everything is a balancing act. I hope I got it all.

[@Hiillosmakkara1]

@@AdventureOtaku Thanks! Perfect! Actually in my Wavesport Hydra there’s kind of a noticable ”flat” chine with noticable ”edges”. It’s fairly easy to edge. However, the edging is rather ”on-off”. Once you get the boat on it’s edge/chine, it stays on that ”flat chine”. Maybe that’s the reason Hydra is not that comfortable in rough waves? It’s either flat, on it’s chine or over the chine (and then one is swimming already 😂). But as said, most probably it’s due to my rookiness mostly 😇.

[@trevorsowers2202]

More rocker will also make the boat float over oncoming waves rather than dive into them like a flat keel line. With a rockered boat just deploy the rudder.

[@AdventureOtaku]

Yes it will, bow shape will also play into this. A fuller bow (regardless of rocker) will float over waves. I assume your second sentence was referring to their tendency to not track as well, yes, that is the rudders real job. To make the boat go straight, but generally in a cross wind.