Choosing The Perfect Bullet For Deer

[@keithlambert6217]

I learned more from this video than any I’ve watched before. Thanks for putting it together.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I love the avatar!

[@Eleazarsc]

I completely agree. I'm pretty green, but eager to learn. This video will be saved and watched multiple time. Thank you, Mr. River!

[@jumpninthedarkalley]

Was reluctant to watch a 40 minute video. Glad I did! Getting back into hunting at 27 years old and haven't shot a deer or an animal in 10 years since I was 17. Trying to pick a rifle calibre. Thanks a ton! Really helps me make my mind up. It's tough because I have a neck injury that restricts me to lower recoil rifle rounds. Appreciate the info for my search for the perfect round! Take care.

[@jumpninthedarkalley]

So far I'm looking at the .357 and the 243. ....... Thinking the 243 is a good option, but that the .357 would be fine for shots under 150 yards. I don't plan to take far shots. Also the 357 has a bigger diameter bullet then a 243 correct? So in theory it has better mushrooming and a lower chance of penciling using say 160-180 grain load under 150 yards correct? I feel like bigger handgun loads under 150 yard shots are excellent, no? Because they have a bigger bullet like the 30-30. Thanks so much @

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I would actually go with the .243. The .357 is an outstanding cartridge for deer but I think out to 150 yards would really be pushing the limits of it. That's starting to get out there for even a 30-30 and the 30-30 has more range the .357. So just based on that distance out to 150 yards I would choose the .243. For under 100 yards and especially under 80 yards I would pick the .357 over the .243 every time. And the old 30-30 might be a good option? It can reach out to 150 and it's still light on recoil compared to other offerings. And I have another video that might help, Choosing the perfect caliber for deer. I get more into thinking about cartridges in terms of distances where they're at their best in that video. I hope that helped?

[@elizabethnybeck9935]

243 for sure I have a 357 100yd or less

[@jamesmooney5348]

You set your 30-30 up for 300 yd PBR? Or you meant .270?

[@charleshuyck6641]

New boattails can be really tough like Hornady sst, Barnes all copppers, even Ballistic tips. most are soft point or hollow but do have fast yet controlled expansion over traditional bullet technology. Even Nosler is adding harder alloy to core and jacket and tapering.

[@Yelladog78]

SST ... tough , not in my experience

[@charleshuyck6641]

SST I use long range I use Barnes TTSX CLOSE

[@leonharris1329]

I like and expect my bullets to expand and penitrate completely while retaining some shank. I shoot my deer thru the lungs with arrow or bullet. 600 gr arrow .nosler partition barns ttx remington corlok

[@gjordininscore3968]

I could sit and listen to him talk all day

[@jamesmooney5348]

The years they cam out: Weatherby 1944 Partion 1948 Hornady 1944 Remington Core-Lokt 1939 So maybe Mr. Roy used Hornady n Rem Core-Lokts in the beginning???

[@Yelladog78]

I like fragmenting bullets over hard bullets, whitetail are pretty easy to kill.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I would definitely take a fragmenting bullet over one that's to hard. But I'm going to be a little more particular with that fragmenting bullet and avoid raking angles from behind because of penetration. And you're right, they are pretty easy to kill.

[@Jeff_Seely]

In 1948, John Nosler came back from a moose hunting trip and developed the Partition. I bought my first 270 35 years ago, have used the partition every year with many different 270s and I have always found my dear within 50 yards of the impact. My point is that great hunting bullets have been available for many decades and the 270 cartridge is plenty for any deer if you've got a good hunting bullet. And the partition A-frame bullet is all I have ever needed. But I am not going to take a shot on a deer past 250 yd. I'm going to close the gap and I have never shot one past 200. I am very happy within those applications. Thanks, Tom!

[@derekheuring2984]

I completely agree with the comment regarding Nosler partitions which have been my go-to bullet for reloading my hunting cartridges with only two exceptions. Early season Mule Deer hunting in the mountains above the Yalakom River in British Columbia means you're hunting above the tree line making it very difficult to get to close to them so I worked up a n extremely accurate long range load in my Husqvarna Sporting Rifle chambered in .270 Winchester using 140 gr. Hornady boat-tail bullets. The bullet usually anchored them on the spot with only a few taking more than a couple of steps. The other bullet was 250 gr. Barnes bullets I used in my .358 Winchester BLR bear gun which I handloaded the snot out of to make a devastating short range bush gun with which I took several bears.

[@johnbuck6685]

Not much to discus here go get a 270 with 130 grain bullets and kill deer bear elk gophers rock chucks anything in the us

[@charlesbullee7215]

Like your videos and all. But man the 270 deal and losing deer is bugging me. Do u think maybe it had more to do with bullet and placement kinda what your video was all about. With the right bullet 270 is a good deer cartridge. Definitely has its limits tho.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The .270 is an outstanding cartridge but the problems were exactly what you suggested, bullet and placement. And those problems aren't just limited to a .270. I shot a buck once on a power line behind the shoulder at 100 yards with a 164gr 30/06 and that deer ran off. I knew it was a good shot and he would be laying on the ground a few yards away. A few minutes later another buck stepped out in the same spot and I shot it and dropped it right there. When I walked up to the one that I dropped right there it had 2 entrance holes in it less than an inch apart. It was the same deer. It had circled back around in a low spot where I couldn't see it and walked back out in the same spot to see what that was. That bullet was too tough and moving to fast for a behind the shoulder shot and it penciled the deer. It's tough getting the balance just right on a bullet for rapid expansion in soft areas like behind the shoulder broadside shots but tough enough to stay together for quartering and through the shoulder shots, plus at different velocities at different ranges. The problems with the .270 were just more pronounced because it's an even higher velocity than the '06 and smaller diameter. And ironically I just finished a book written in 1970 by Jack O;Connor where he talked about this exact issue. His ideal shot and bullet with the .270 was behind the shoulder with a hollow point. This is a topic that I'm going to come back to one day when I figure out how to better explain it better.

[@jdonnelly46]

Great video and this guy seems to know his stuff. You get information from him from his experience. I am a former gun shop owner and hunter and I have shared the same type of information with my customers.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks, I appreciate your comment.

[@saskcop416]

Yes, Accubonds are boat-tails. I think they are one of the best all around, various range bullets. Bonded is the way to prevent failures. Good video.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks. I had read years ago that they weren't a true boat tail even though they have an angle on the base. From what I know now I still wouldn't say they are are a true boat tail? They're sort of in between a boat tail and a flat base and that's why Nosler came out with the Accubond long range. They made it a full boat tail to raise the B.C. and I'm sure they made it a little softer for long range impacts at slower velocities as well? At least that's my understanding of it.

[@jamesmooney5348]

Heavy, and I mean heavy, for caliber bullets that shoot slow but are soft-👍

[@finniganshomestead2956]

I don't have the brain to think about all those variables and hunt at the same time. SOOOO the good old 30-06 and a 150 grain Nosler partition is as good of an all around cartridge I was able to come up with in my situation here in east Tennessee

[@jamesmooney5348]

You talk about an ol' grandpa truck. My favorite engine is the Ford 300 straight six. Clifford Performance had or may still have some great parts for inline motors. Turbos on these motors really live'n them up as well! But parts are not only hard to find for the 4.9, but expensive.

[@JohnProph]

I think it would be beneficial if you did a video explaining how to set up a rifle/bullet combo for different shooting scenarios. for instance a 308 shot from a stand or where the max distance might be 50ish yards, versus a 308 where the shot might be 100-150 yds. Bullet selection, barrel length etc. that would be a nice part 2 to this discussion

[@jamesmooney5348]

I wonder what bullets Roy Weatherby first used? I would think he had fragmentation Issues with the higher speeds. Weatherby n Nosler = Peanut Butter n Jelly or Hammer n Nails

[@jamesmooney5348]

Wonder what Roy thought when he first heard of the Partion?

[@terrymcclendon2277]

I have been a bow hunter for 30 years and never hunt a certain stand unless the wind is right , so 30 30 within 50 yards is my choice and with standard cup and core bullets is deadli , god bless thank you!!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

My hat's off to any bow hunter. It requires some serious skills to take deer with a sharp pointed stick!

[@485Baron]

Perhaps the reason 30 06, 308 and 303 British work well because they were the result of a lot of trials over time (tried and true) so this makes them an easy choice.

[@dimebag6982]

I have found that the 140gr nosler accubond is one of the best bullets for the .270. Try it out, I promise you won’t be disappointed.

[@briansupermag3918]

ELDM OR SIERRA TMK. done

[@russellkeeling9712]

The 47th Lyman reloading manual has what they call the Optimum Game Weight table. This advises what the maximum weight of a target animal should be according to the firearm, bullet weight, velocity and distance. When reading their table it will surprise most people at how under gunned they are when they shoot at long distance. For instance looking at a 7mm mag. using a 140 gr. bullet at 3175 fps shouldn't be used for any game weighing more than 332 lbs. at 400 yards or more according to the Lyman Optimum Game Weight.

[@mbw65]

Been using .270 since late 60's, never lost an animal. Reloaded from the beginning so used best bullets of the day, Speer and Sierra, which weren't as good as now

[@martincorbitt1979]

I can take a 150 grain soft point ,& have fun ,you hear me,drop ever thing around me ,with my 270

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The .270 is an outstanding cartridge with the right bullet and shot placement, but get either of those 2 wrong and bad things happen. But that's the case with every cartridge. And at the moment I'm .270 poor so I really do think it is a great cartridge!

[@grizzlytabaccy]

It's all in where you put that bullet..I love the vids and it is fun to debate on cartridges..when you're a handloader you really appreciate how much time and effort that goes into that spit second BANG! I'm a 168 grain boat tail hollow point 30-06 man and gonna give my 300RUM a try this year keep up the good vids man.

[@shermanwright6382]

I learned that long ago the 150 grain is the best for 270 win

[@raymondjohnson1840]

I shot a 6 point with a243 100 grain btsp. 165 yards thru the lungs. He swaped ends took off. Thought i missed. Ok ill walk a circle make sure i missed. Found the buck . He ran 250 yards.

[@jaybailleaux630]

I did not learn anything because I am a smartelic know it all but I like to hear Tom talk.

[@bearmeat898]

Tom talks so slow. BUT...he doesn't skip vital aspects of issues other people do in trade of trying to move on. All of these considerations matter.

[@joesabedra8792]

I have found that if I am running (let’s say a 6.5Cre) at 200+ Ganges I can run a Hornady ELD-X bullet for good controlled expansion. But at 100 yards I use a ELD-M for faster expansion because the X hunting bullet won’t expand at shorter ranges in the animal.

[@davep5227]

I'm a Salty 30-06 Fan 😁

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Then you should really enjoy the rifles I'm working on this summer. A 1903A3 Springfield and an FN M98 Commercial Mauser both in 30/06.

[@russellk6415]

I know where you are coming from on the 270. Back in the 70's the name I gave the 270 was track um down. I have tracked so many deer shot with this caliber then all other calibers combined. Funny, because now I have one and it's my go to deer rifle. It literally smokes them. The bullet technology has come a long way since then. I'm also a big fan of the 243. This caliber is a little different. I'm very selective on the bullets I use and of my shot placement. Of course I apply the same theory to the 270. I've learned over time that it is not the caliber that matters. It's bullets and shot placement. Tom, keep the videos coming. Even us old guys can still learn. Be blessed!!!

[@rtrapper4life]

This is an old video now, but it just made me think about how certain bullets are made softer than others to shine in certain cartridges over others. I find it funny that most 130 grainers seem to be too soft for the 270 win velocities, yet the 270 win was the reason most of these 130 gr bullets were originally made. Seems to me like the 130s should have been made a little more stout right from the get go.

[@joesabedra8792]

Man I Geek out on of it. Bullets, powders, BC all of it. Always tweaking. Cartridge length, I get closer to the lands on some bullets. This is a great video. Geek Mode.

[@joelodjick230]

Hello Tom, Great video! And a very easy to follow talk on a complicated subject. I ain't the fastest thinker so make things as simple as I can, I just load the 30-06 and 308 with a 150 gr Partition and shoot just about anything with it haha. Your 270 with the Accubond is a very elegant solution to just about any problem too.

[@lukeraven1799]

I've had good luck with Federal premium 150 grain Nosler Partion in the 270

[@ianmccutcheon6319]

This video is extremely informative. I really like the way you deliver your points in a very easy to understand method. 5 Stars !

[@johnl5974]

Very interesting presentation. Stuff I hadn't thought about. Like a lot of hand loaders, I get hung up on B.C. since I shoot paper at 300 yds more often than deer.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I think we all share that tendency?

[@johnl5974]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I haven't watched all the videos yet...but a suggestion. a video illustrating how complicated scope reticles can cause confusion under stress. Mine has a 200 yard zero, not my usual 100 yard. And it is only good at 8X. I'm learning the real meaning of KISS principle. Interesting reticles are fun target shooting but mess me up when deer hunting.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

@@johnl5974 That's a great suggestion. That's also why I prefer using maximum point blank range and if I'm going to shoot a long distance use a cartridge with a long maximum point blank range. Just put the cross hairs on him and shoot. And I've also experienced how magnification can really mess you up at close range. I was 16 and I still have nightmares about that buck getting by me.

[@russellkeeling9712]

I think you might find that if you shoot mostly paper and you are shooting at 300 yards you will find the flat based bullet is more accurate than a boat tail bullet. As explained to me the reason is in the crown of the barrel. If there is even the slightest imperfection, such as a small scratch, in the crown the boat tail bullet allows gas to escape earlier at that flaw than the rest of the bullet causing the bullet to yaw. The flat base doesn't do it quite as bad. It might be worth a try. I use both but my paper shooting is in preparation for hunting.

[@maxcontax]

Got caught up in the 6.5 excitement but after using it with 140’s for a few years I am back at 140’s in my Remington 700BDL 270Win…it just works.

[@mcgavin098]

I've used 30-06 for 3 decades and I only had one deer run away and I couldn't find him. It always happens at least once to every hunter.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

It is a great cartridge, but I normally try to make people aware that there are other options out there for them besides a 30/06. And that's not because I don't think it's a great cartridge but because I've seen so many smaller stature people get the snot beat out of them with a 30/06, especially with lighter rifles. But for people that can handle it it's a great cartridge and I've taken my share of deer with it. All though I did have to learn a few things about shot placement and bullet selection with it. I'll have to talk about that sometime in the future? And I'll have quite a few videos coming up later this year about the 30/06 because I have a couple of them to setup!

[@russellnilson1551]

I am unable to "read more"?

[@craigleibbrand7761]

The mono copper type of bullets will not fail so now you can use a smaller caliber at higher velocity flattening the trajectory delivering higher shock and still get adequate killing power.

[@lyleswavel320]

I've never lost a deer or hog with my 243 and 7mag, I shoot 100 grain Winchester Ballistic Tips and 140 grain Winchester Ballistic Tips

[@brob-zy8zi]

I now hunt with a .270. I shoot factory ammo. 130gr Accubond Nosler Trophy Grade. My shots could stretch out to 200 to 300 yards possibly in some situations. I shot my first deer with it this year at 50 yards off a ledge at a downward angle. I shot high shoulder and that buck didn't move an inch. It was like lightning hit it. The bullet itself passed through completely. The lungs were destroyed. The exit wound was not large but it did the job well. At around 3,000fps I was impressed that this bullet could hold together so well at that short distance. High velocity rifles are a new thing for me as I've hunted mostly with .30-30 and 12ga slug guns. I have done a lot of reading on bullet design etc recently and I think for high velocity rifles, as you said, bonded bullets are a must. I've not tried any other bonded bullets from my rifle but that accubond really did very very well for me and the controlled expansion meant nowhere near as much meat damage as a soft point as well. Thank you for the great video. You have an extensive knowledge and I think it will help many new hunters more easily sort through the many rifles we have avaliable for hunting.

[@lyleswavel320]

How can a bullet fragments be caused by the deers skin, doesn't it have to hit a rib and blow up into lungs and heart

[@ShakeyNelg]

Correct, the skin insnt going to break up a bullet unless it’s a varnint round. I love Hornady sst in 25-06. Shoulder hit, down. Behind the shoulder looks like a grenade went off inside and good pass through. Dead right there or 30-40 yard sprint and flop.

[@mikeh5908]

@@ShakeyNelg i love my 2506..it would be sleeping with me if the wife would allow it lol

[@TheGingerKing1994]

The only bullets I haven’t had problems with are plain Jane soft points. When hornady came out with the lever revolution I was a young man just getting into ballistics. I assumed (yes I know) the external ballistics would carry over terminally. I was probably around 16 and all of a sudden I started experiencing a wounded deer problem. This was after me and my marlin 336 had shot 4 or 5 deer so I was mortified. Years later I read all the articles about the inefficiency of those rounds and I can tell you first hand it’s true. There’s three or four deer that had those rounds blow up on their shoulders requiring tracking and/or follow up shots. I returned to regular old soft point ammo of various manufacturers and sure enough she started dropping deer. That’s my horror story! Thanks so much for the content.

[@fedup3582]

I have used the hornady leverevolution 30-30 with the 160 gr FTX bullet on multiple deer and multiple antelope and have had nothing but fantastic performance with full penetration. Only once did I retrieve a bullet. The antelope was steeply quartering away and I tried to sneak a bullet in behind the ribs on the right side to angle up through the vitals. I was a little off and the bullet went through the hip, angled up through the vitals and just punctured the hide ahead of the left shoulder. It had penetrated full length of the antelope and I found a perfect mushroom hung up in the hair, just ahead of the left shoulder, after penetrating the hide on exit. My 30-30 has a 24 inch barrel and is getting full ballistics out of the cartridge. All broadside shots have blown through the deer and antelope, usually dropping them in their tracks. If you are having problems with the hornady FTX 30-30, I can't imagine what you are doing with them.

[@MariusNortje-w3g]

I only have one rifle. I bought it (used) from someone during 1995. I've loaded it with all kinds of makes and grains of 30 cal bullets over the years and also wasted alot of money doing so. I now shoot 150gr. Accubonds loaded to a mild 2750 at the muzzle of my Aught Six. Close range up to 300m, I bring em all home. Springbuck, Impala, Kudu, Eland, they all come home with a shot (anywhere) on or around the shoulder, bone or not bone, this load works for me. I've taken a Springbuck, in the eye, during a Karoo hunt at a distance of 230m during typical windy Karoo conditions. Soft on my shoulder, clover leafs at 100m. This load is awesome!

[@ebbebystrom1010]

I used to look at BCS and velocity, balancing both with recoil. Then I switched to 3006 with a round nose and it just plain works.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've taken an awful lot of deer with a round nose myself and never even came close to losing one with a round nose.

[@Dale37]

All of my deer have been taken with either a 30-30 or .308. I have bought other calibers but I haven't taken a deer with them yet.

[@robertsanders7061]

I’ve been hunting with a 257 Roberts for 30 years. It never let me down

[@ronws2007]

25:40 "Son, you are gonna drive me to drinkin if you don't quit drivin' that hot rod Lincoln..." Loved that song as a kid. I have fished since 1970. But I was not able to hunt until recently and now I am all et up with it. But I came to choosing the .308 Win from a different line of reasoning. During the 70's it was SOP to train Marine Scout Snipers and even Army DM and Ranger snipers on a version of the Remington 700 short action .308 Win. The Army was the M24 and the Marines was the M40. The reasoning was that a short action and barrel length of 22 inches or less was a light rifle with a weight around 175 gr that would knock down a 200 pound target at 600 yards. Why is that? Well, even today, most snipers are engaging at 800 yards and less. In urban settings, much less, more like police SWAT distances of 100 yards. So, I surmised, that it might be slight overkill but a definite solid hit to choose this round because in my use for deer hunting, I would be hitting a 140 pound buck at about 100 yards or less. So, I am thinking, besides energy, trajectory performance might be a key issue. Is the trajectory flat? Flat trajectories work well for changing fields of fire at unknown distances. So, a varmint hunter does with with a .22-250 and a tactical scope. There is a youtube channel called woodchuckin and that is what he does, rid farm fields of the pests known as woodchucks. He posts on a slightly raised spot, dials for distance and holds over in the reticle for windage. There is some arc you can see in the bullet trace but it allows him to dial with confidence because he knows the bullet is only rising a few inches. If he aims at the main part of the body, he will hit. My Mossberg MVP Long Range 308 Thunder Ranch is 1/3 MOA at 100 yards with Federal Nontypical Whitetail .308 Win 180 grain. At 2570 fps. A slow fat bullet that will go right through heart and longs expanding on impact (it has the "ballistic tip.") I have known others to hunt deer with .270 Win. Even elk. I would think that you should hunt elk with no less than a .308 Win 180 grain. Maybe a .300 Win Mag. Now there is a useful round. Back to the sniper training thing. Often, a military sniper will change to a .300 Win Mag because it has a higher BC. You can dial elevation for distance and if the wind is 4 mph or less, you can hold left or right edge of target into the wind and you will make a hit. Back to accuracy. To many movies show a sniper piercing someone's earlobe. It does not work that way. The intention of a sniper is to put somewhere between 175 grains and 220 grains into center of mass of a target at distance. That is considered a successful hit. So, as much as accuracy is a worthy pursuit, our intention should be to put somewhere between 147 and 220 grain within an 8 inch area at medium distance (I think long range starts past 300 yards.)

[@stephenkennedy3145]

600 nitro

[@mikekeretzman4757]

Speer Hot-Cor flat base or Sierra Pro-hunter for deer out to 300-yds.

[@jeffreyharmon7543]

Just found your page. I love your videos. Keep up the good work!

[@jetb]

Thanks from New Zealand

[@garywoodlief1976]

If you have not lost a deer hunting it is because you have not shot enough deer yet

[@craigleibbrand7761]

The Nosler Partition was and is the standard all around bullet.

[@bobbyboothe8964]

Tom. I have saved yr videos. And I can watch them over and over again. I'll agree with you 💯. Yr Information is point on. Thanks again

[@jasoncombs664]

This is a amazing video, you can see his experience is immense. The only thing to me is if you are hunting game that is known for long range shots such as big horn sheep and you anticipate shooting the animal at a long range, you would probably have a boat tail bullet. But, what if your hunting and one runs up to you at close range. There is another old saying “ it’s better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it” so with that being said you never know at what range you might see your trophy. So I guess just carry the long range bullet and focus on perfect shot placement if a close shot is available.

[@bobkat1663]

Home run again.... If you will try and rem. the distance you hit the deer/deer sized, you ideally want the bullet moving 2800 fps. or slower, when hitting the animal, Anything above that, and the terminal velocity, is too great and you will get extreme tissue damage/or penciling and you lose the deer entirely. So find a gun that shoots 2800 fps. or slower at the muzzle and you can not go wrong. 30-30, 7mm/8mm mauser, Brit. 303, 6.5 x55 , 257 Roberts, 12 gauge slug gun, for deer at 0-50-100 yards. Now for your 270, just take a Nosler Partition in any weight, and load it at 2800fps or slower, you will be fine at 0-100 yards, but why bother when you have such a sweet shooter in the 7mmx57 ? 243/6mm are also good deer rounds at 0-100 yards but for opposite that rule. In this case the bullet is so small and light weight, the extreme velocity is welcome to make up for little damage caused by such a small bullet. So for example a 7mm Rem Mag. would be a good deer round at 300+ yards, but nothing closer. Also if your hunting 0-500 yards, here is another rule to live by, B.C. is B.S. Nosler Partition is the best of both worlds can not go wrong with them. The Federal TLR Edge looks to be another supper bullet. I hope this helps, Great video.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I can't argue on the Partition. After all of these years I still don't think there is a better bullet out there.

[@donaldanderson3249]

Ive lost only one deer in my life and that was because it was only 15 feet away and my bullet went straight through without mushrooming and hit the tree right behind it . I tracked it for 3 days and never found it . The bullet was just going to fast to mushroom through both lungs .

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've helped a lot of other people track deer from that. That's a bad feeling when you make a great shot and end up tracking a deer for days and never find it. Those are the ones we never forget.

[@donaldanderson3249]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yeah that was 3 years ago and I still can't get over it . To close and the bullet was to fast , that's all I can come up with.

[@fedup3582]

How do you know what the bullet did to the deer when you were never able to retrieve the deer?

[@pim1234]

Learning so much from your channel ! Tnx !

[@James-hd4ms]

A 308 20"barrel should do right around 2500fps with 180gr bullets. Factory and handloads. How is that very slow? Boat tail bullets are perfect for rifles that like them best. Some don't. Beautiful Ruger. How many cartriges did it take to find your load?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I got luck on the Ruger and found the load really quick. Honestly I think that was the smoothest load development and testing I've ever done on a rifle? I tried 130gr Speer Hotcores for a flat base and 130gr Accubonds for a semi boat tail to which one it likes and it loved the Accubond. I did try some 140gr Accubonds also just out of curiosity but it real really liked the 130's. And for me 2500 fps is slow but only as it relates to maximum point blank range. In terms of energy with that 180gr bullet that's a serious deer slayer, or any other big game.

[@mikeTyson329]

Fantastic video great content

[@repairfreak]

Thanks for sharing your wisdom Tom, I find it very interesting all the different types of bullets and how they work as you explain it. I draw from your video as one that is not going to shoot game and therefore not concerned with bullet expansion, but rather long range target shooting, if I learned correctly I would want to choose a hard, sharp tipped boat-tail solid bullet with a great B.C. and traveling at high velocity for the .270 Win at say 300 yards max. What type of .270 Win commercial cartridge would you grab 1st if limited to factory loads for my mentioned application? Thanks again Tom for another great video. God bless my friend 😎👍

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

That's a tough question to answer right now and for the .270 Win. My first choice would be Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. It uses Sierra Match King bullets which are specifically made for precision target shooting (it's actually a boat tail hollow point) but I just checked and I didn't see it offered in .270. I didn't see Nosler match ammo in .270 either? And with the ammo shortages right now I'm not sure what's even available? Plus I'm not sure what your budget is? Match ammo can get pricey even when ammo is plentiful, So for the moment I would say anything you can get would be a good choice even if it's just hunting ammo. As for the high B.C. I wouldn't worry too much about that. The big advantage of having a high B.C. for target shooting isn't that it helps with bullet drop but that it helps with wind deflection. Those sudden gusts of wind don't affect a bullet with a high B.C. as much which means smaller groups. But a high B.C. doesn't really start making a difference until you get past 300 yards. If you're staying within 300 yards then even a standard flat base hunting bullet can produce small groups. So for the moment I would suggest you try whatever types of ammo you can get and just see what shoots well in your rifle. Try to figure out what bullet weight it likes and brand and then use that to work on your fundamentals. Then as ammo becomes more readily available you can experiment more with different types of precision ammo. I hope that helps.

[@russellkeeling9712]

One hard part of the .270 is they are usually a 1 in ten twist rate so they don't stabilize the long high BC bullets well. At 300 yards you shouldn't really need such a high BC bullet though.

[@repairfreak]

@@russellkeeling9712 Thanks for the reply, I two different brands of factory hunting type ammo to try out at this point. I have some Winchester Deer & Antelope 130 grain power point & Norma Whitetail 130 grain. Both are flat base type bullets. It will be interesting to see which my rifle likes better. Have a great day ✌️😎👍

[@markhansen8078]

Great video. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for sharing. Not enough emphasis is placed upon bullet selection. It seems to me somebody could put together a program or app that would be a huge aid for bullet selection. for various calibers, velocities, distances, ect. Thanks again. MH

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Mark. I don't have an app to recommend but if you get a chance check out Ballistics research.com. They have some outstanding cartridge specific information on there.

[@danclermont7586]

I am a 308 guy.I believe it's the perfect combination.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

It's a tough cartridge to beat!

[@ronws2007]

Same here.

[@nathanmatzen2452]

.308 is rubbish Made by 30-06 gang

[@TheBamayaker]

A .308 with 150 gr Remington core lokt has killed millions of deer dead.

[@ronws2007]

@@TheBamayaker Quite true. And many is the deer taken with moderately priced equipment.

[@charleshuyck6641]

Lots of exceptions.

[@wellohello-p5d]

In my 30s i have always been told u want spitzer flat base soft points. Remington, hornady interlock, sierra spitzer pro hunter, ect. My dad preffers sierra pro hunter for most but used flat based interlocksfor 270!

[@bryanshull372]

You must have never shot Spitzer style bullets through balistic jell. They always, Always, ALWAYS TUMBLE!!! Creating wound channels similar to hollow points or they fragment. They do not pencil unless they are short and fat like pistol bullets. I have killed many deer with FMJs from .22lr to .308. The best expanding bullet is monolithic like Barnes, second is bounded and the boat tail makes them easier to reload. If a flat base bullet isn't some what rounded you have to expand the case mouth to start the bullet with out crushing the neck. This over works the case mouth which leads to premature neck splitting.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Bryan, now you've got me curious. I can see some bullets tumbling but I also saw a lot of deer way back when shot with poor loadings in 270 that had almost no damage to them. I wonder if the lower velocity in those loadings made a difference or perhaps it being a short distance through the deer before the bullet exited that prevented the bullets from tumbling?

[@bryanshull372]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving if they have incomplete expansion sometimes they will just pencil. The expansion although small prevents the tumbling. There are several KZbin sights that show this in balistic jell. This is why the M16 got a reputation of Haveing a "magic bullet." With its original 1 in 12" twist the tumbled quickly upon impact and would travel at odd angles through a body causing terrible wounds. Going through the rib cage and lungs of a deer they usually tumble relatively straight through but if they hit heavy bone they will deflect.

[@bryanshull372]

Every expanding bullet type has a velocity threshold below which it will not function properly. The manufacturer can tell you what tha is. The Spitzer style bullets always tumble. There is a company called Fort Scott Munitions that advertise "tumble on contact bullets." Because of the weight distribution in a spitzer bullet the base is always heaver than the tip. That's why they have to spin to stabilize. Once they slow down enough to destabilize, whether in a deer or air, they tumble.

[@robertwainright1361]

alittle boring but GREAT info. I hunt with mostly 3 rifle, Winchester 94AE30/30), Savage 10(308 Win) and a custom Armalite AR-10B in 308 Win. The 30/30, I use 170gr. SP Core-lock within 100 yds, The Savage 10, I use a 150 gr. SP Core-Lock between 75 to 300 yds, and for the custom Armalite AR-10B 308, I use 168gr. polymer tip rounds between 250 to 500 yds. I have other rifles but these are my go to trusted rifles. Alot of good info here.

[@craigleibbrand7761]

You need a real deer cartridge the 270 WEATHERBY MAGNUM with the 150 grain Nosler partition bullet or the new accubond deadly performance

[@craigleibbrand7761]

Love your videos you're the real deal

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Craig!

[@jmartin9059]

*The BEST THING about a rifle chambered for 270 Winchester is... 8x57 IS Mauser, 35 Whelen , .338-06 or 9,3x62mm will all fit in that same action.*

[@mitchellskaterjanes808]

So when I got from this video is do not hunt with Full Metal Jacket you will penetrate straight through instead of destroying the innards

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

And don't hit a shoulder with a soft bullet or you might not ever make it to the innards.

[@mitchellskaterjanes808]

Thank you

[@duaneholcomb8408]

I don't care what cartridge it is Or the bullet grain. Placement is the key. Ok. I say that because I bow hunt. A recurve bow doesn't have any of the power or mushrooming. Or tumbling. But if you hit the deer in,the heart and lung. You'll bring him home. Most of the time,,,,,same with a gun. , so. Other than distance or shooting thru brush it really doesn't make much difference.,

[@michaelwilson9986]

Excellent... Well said.. Personally The things mentioned here is why I normally go with Nosler Partition n now there Accubonds.. 270 I wouldn't use any 130 in them even the above..Seen 1st hand Deer lost to them.. 140gr Non issue same for. 150.

[@christinehart5724]

Great information- this is needed for setting up for a great outcome when shooting or hunting. I most say that the 270 Winchester is the only one that I have done my best not to have anything to do with! The long range insiders of my time could not explain why, but when you looked at bench rest rifles they were 6mm, 6.5 mm, 7mm and .308”s they felt that it had to do with the bore of the 270 Of course that was back in the 80’s

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

That is interesting. I had never even thought about it but you're right. I can think of several reasons the .270 wouldn't be great for bench rest or long range shooting but I can't think of any one in particular. Maybe it was just a combination of factors? But I can say from the hunting side I have gained a new found respect for the .270 since I started experimenting with it. It isn't very versatile in terms of bullet weight choices but the few you have are just about all you could want for hunting.

[@christinehart5724]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thanks again... bullet choice is a big factor in why a rifle in 280 Remington is the better choice...7mm Remington Mag maybe close to all around...but if I were doing it today... 35 whelen or 350 Remington Mag! After all, you never know what you might bump into in the woods.

[@fedup3582]

@@christinehart5724 maybe what you need is the 280 AI. Better than the 280 in my opinion, and has aspects that I feel give some advantages over the 7mm rem mag. Myself, I wouldn't pick the 280 over the 270, my preference goes to the 270, though I know the 280 has certain aspects going for it. It all depends on what you want to do with the cartridge and then you need to find the right bullet for the cartridge, for the use you want to use it for.

[@fedup3582]

@@christinehart5724 i hope you also try either the 35 whelen or 350 rem mag. Probably not the best if you are wanting to shoot in excess of 300 yds, but in my opinion, 300 yds is getting out there for the vast majority of hunters. Just my opinion, but i really liked my 35 whelen and 350 mag, especially the Remington model 7 CDL I had in 350 mag. After I had it glass bedded, it was a solid moa rifle. It was light, handy, good looking, fit me beautifully, and really put the smack down on the game I took with it.

[@christinehart5724]

@@fedup3582 the 280 AI is a great cartridge. Better bullet choice Over the 270. How ever, I’m getting older and have seen a lot of rifles and cartridges. I no longer set up for shots over400 yards. So my to go to is now a 308 Winchester backed up by a 350 Remington Mag. In time you find what works best for you. Good luck

[@michaelwilson9986]

Most bullet manufacturers have either on there website or loading manual.Recomended Use ,Type of game, IMPACT Velocity Range. Its important to check that out for the Game your hunting,Velocity range of the bullet at Impact ,n see what suits your rifle n use.

[@davidstuck2866]

I have been pretty fortunate over the years. I never lost a deer that I shot. My first rifle was a 'boring old"30-30. I later "upgraded" to a 300 win mag. and I finished out my deer hunting "career" with a 45-70. Yes, I KNOW that the only one of those rifles that were strictly adequet for deer, was the 30-30. but i NEVER had to track a deer after upgrading to a more powerful rifle either. they all dropped in their tracks.

[@ziruk-king4466]

Barnes

[@russellnilson1551]

My thought on your .308 friend when he had his rifle. If with shooting his short 20" barreled rifle, if he had used a 150gr. bullet to increase speed, he may not have experienced the near penciling effect of the slower non-expanding pushed 180gr. bullet.

[@michaelgarner4229]

I wish the ammo manufactures would publish recomended impact velocities on the ammo box.

[@darrellhowcroft6941]

I thank you . Your info was as if i was talking to older seasoned uncle or grandfather talking about ....back in the day... thank you again sir........ god bless......

[@cornbreadburgess1950]

Thank you Tom for sharing ,I did learn much and have been using flat base for our 308 .but target boat tail and am working on what you have brought up,I have much to evaluate ,thanks for the heads up GODBLESS.

[@craigleibbrand7761]

Back in the day I shot 150 gr. Speer bullets out of my 270 Weatherby Magnum. Never had a failure.

[@JamesJones-cx5pk]

I like SST's. They blow up quick and jelly the entrails. They don't always exit but they don't need to.

[@lukethibodaux790]

Fragmentation can be a very good thing or a very bad thing depending on how it is done, my first Alabama buck I shot with a 120gr ballistic tip out of my 6.5x55 that caused massive fragmentation damage to the heart and lungs, I mean chunky soup level damage yet the heel of the bullet remained intact enough to leave a nice 3/4" exit wound not that I had to track him, jumped once and hit the ground limp as a dish rag. It did not ruin a bunch of meat as the fragments stopped at the rib cage and I could not imagine a more ethical kill so I have to question weather or not that was a perfect bullet performance even with all the bullet fragments lodged on the far side rib cage.

[@thecheapshot1065]

He’s spot on about expectations. When it comes to quality factory rifles even our budget stuff is coming sub MOMA guaranteed for the most part. When people are sport arising those World War One and two surplus rifles they were always getting the consistent CNC craftsmanship we have these days

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks!

[@thecheapshot1065]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving You’re welcome sir. sorry to be so bold having asked that you subscribe to my channel as well I’m just really trying to put myself out there to grow my subscription base. I’m learning video editing right now it’s quite the learning curve in the meantime I’m trying to just post a little snippet of contact here and there. If I can get enough subscribers to apply for monetization my wife will encourage me Do you cut out more time to shooting at the range and filming and making videos LOL. Right now with what little I am bringing in from rifle scope referrals with Blackhound Optics she’s allowing me to reinvest into the channel. Picked up a second camera some better parts for my computer and a new gun that’s about it. Joe Rhea has been really helpful but he edits all his videos using Apple devices that use apps. And SCOG has been helpful with rifle collecting advice. Lotta great KZbinrs out there. Good community

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

It's tough squeezing it all in and I have definitely had to cut back on a lot of things. Doing this channel has turned into a 2nd job. But I really enjoy doing it and my favorite part is all of the conversations I've had with others. And I think making it about others is the key to being able to do it long term because if you just do this to make money for yourself you will quickly realize it's not worth it. There are a lot of easier ways to make money and to make a lot more of it. But for me personally it has been well worth all of the effort because of how many people that have said they appreciated what I'm doing. That is what makes it worth it. And have you tried Divinci Resolve for editing? It works on a PC and it's free but you will need a good graphics card. As for growing your channel, just be patient. It really does take time. And it takes time to learn how to make a good video and with any luck I'll figure out how to do that myself in another couple of years! LOL Good luck.

[@stephenland9361]

I have never been overly impressed with boat tail bullets. I read somewhere that they were introduced towards the end of the 1800's, particularly for machine guns. The idea was to give the bullet a lower drag coefficient to increase retained velocity (thus energy) at extended range. In WWI, that range was often up to 3500-4000 yards. Accuracy was essentially ignored. All that mattered was harassing the enemy at extreme distance (indirect, plunging fire). (Note; drag coefficient is not the same as ballistic coefficient.) However, modern analysis using (for example) the Schlieren photography system to see what actually happens at the muzzle of a modern rifle, boat tails become problematic. Gas from burned propellant escapes ahead of the boat tail and exits before the bullet. This can actually deform boat tails and cut into the jacket by flame-cutting. Boat tails simply don't seal in the bore as well as flat based bullets. The muzzle blast after the bullet leaves travels much faster than the bullet. This blast hitting a boat tail (reverse flow) can cause an uplift to the boat-tail, causing yaw and thus wobble. This happens only for an extremely short time but it's not insignificant on resulting accuracy. An ex-military friend once told me that boat tails also cause greater barrel erosion, although the average hunting rifle will never shoot the number of rounds needed to erode a barrel. (You're more likely to do that with a cleaning rod.) For hunting, you don't need ultra low drag and ultra high ballistic coefficient. You need accuracy. I have yet to find a good, dependable properly made hunting bullet that consistently gives better results than a simple, inexpensive Hornady InterLock flat base spire point. And they have a decent ballistic coefficient. For example, my go to .270 Win bullet, the Hornady Interlock flat base spire point, 150 Gr. bullet has a B.C. of .462 (G1). Compare that to a Nosler Accubond .270 150 Gr at a B.C. (G1) of .496. Out to 500 yards, the difference in velocity and energy is trivial. If you're unhappy with the groups you're getting with hand loaded boat-tails, try a few flat based bullets. You just might be pleasantly surprised. Full disclosure; I cribbed a lot of this from www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/boattail-vs-flat-base-projectiles/375628

[@craigleibbrand7761]

The best bullet that the old timers have used for decades is the Remington Core Lock. Not quite as accurate as other bullets because it's a meat bullet. Minute of deer.

[@mr.mr.3301]

The solution is a bonded or monolithic bullet. Most on the east don’t shoot beyond 200-300 yards. Or I don’t lol

[@AcousticHunter]

That's what I call a quality video

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks!

[@toddjohnson271]

For me....at my distances......35 Remington in 336. Down, no tracking.

[@lyleswavel320]

I once heard a guide in West Texas said the only bullet they didn't have to track was the Weatherby 300 Magnum, but that's a massive cartridge

[@tonydevich7937]

Me too,I just bought a savage axis in .270 just to play with

[@russellkeeling9712]

This video would be a good one for the new shooters that have gotten in to long range shooting. The small calibers they use in an attempt to get a high BC might not have enough speed left at long distance for their bullet to expand. I do know the .308 has had problems with this.

[@wolverinekut]

👍👍

[@tylarhaugan7908]

I dont use thin jacket bullets on game i eat they tend to fragment.

[@Lure-Benson]

So you are telling viewers if bullets don't expand they don't kill ! the animals just goes on living . So how do you explain solids for dangerous game loads that kill the most dangerous game and any animal hit my these solid bullets all die . I have 7mm 165 grain Barns solids I load for a 7 mm Rem mag that I have killed deer - Elk to moose with but by the thinking you have these bullets just go through animals then won't kill ! I even have these Barns solid bullets in 224 " I killed 2 black bear with fired from a AR 15 with 20 inch barrel and the bullet was 50 grains. Barns stopped making these solids in caliber under 9.3 so what I have in these Barns solid bullets I am hoarding . The Barns 165 solid in 7 mm fired from my 7 mm Rem mag is instant death to deer - Elk - Moose . Got to love KZbin armchair 24 cold pack gun experts .

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Not at all. If you hit a deer with the main guns of the USS Missouri it will take said deer out with no problem even if using a solid. LOL But in all seriousness if you're shooting a deer with a fast moving small bore rifle and the bullet doesn't expand, fragment, or tumble you're likely never going to find that deer. I have no doubt it will eventually die and how long just depends on what you hit. But killing a deer and killing a deer and recovering it are two very different things. In your case if those Barnes solids are working for you then great but I suspect they are doing more than just going straight through? The bullet is tumbling, fragmenting, or mushrooming if it's working unless you're going for head shots.