CHP 408w Stroker Ford AFR 205cnc Cylinder Head - Cam/Intake Dyno Testing

[@ArthurSperotto]

Thanks guys, this was one hell of a video! You answered all questions I could have had while watching. Fantastic comparison.

[@brendavanorden9550]

Apples for apples is fine for one instance. Your afr and timing will change per change. Please tune for maximum performance on every combo.

[@tracyamcneal9597]

I appreciate the information fellas. I'm considering a 408 stroker motor for my 1990 Mustang.

[@319speed]

I want to build my 351w exactly like this with the Holley intake.

[@daisbestDA9]

Finally some holley intake videos !

[@Mythicstig]

Awesome video, thanks guys, trying to deliberate on a 408 combo currently.

[@brendavanorden9550]

Numbers are nice for hp. How about the cranking compression for each combo? Would be nice to see

[@dennisrobinson8008]

That and the A/F ratio. On a 408 stroker or larger i'm expecting 600 tq or more for a optimized combination.

[@I_like_turtles_67]

Over 550 tq is pretty damn good on a 408.

[@michaelnowak3570]

I'd like more info on the cams, ie, duration at .50? 110? 112 or what overlap?

[@curlracing276]

Would like to see the Holley high ram in both single and dual carb vs the Edelbrock super Vic intake carburated and compare those numbers to the efi numbers shown here.

[@TehShawns]

Thank you for making this video, its hard to find Windsor info and you guys answered a lot of questions between the three intake/TB configurations as well as cams (though I wasn't paying close enough attention to get grind info). I am a bit curious though on the edelbrock efi intake, would the 4150 pattern throttle body offer better partial throttle response than a 105mm or is that too nitpicky?

[@dufus2273]

those are really good numbers on that 408. good video thanks

[@johnnijssen8590]

The cam change tells the important story, and that is what you gain you lose. If you want 600Hp use a longer duration. If you want more Tq under 3500 RPM use a shorter one.

[@I_like_turtles_67]

The first cam with a SV was probably the best option for a street car. That extra torque down lower would make it feel faster than the bigger cams.

[@TheRdub82]

Great video guy's. Seems like the Holley HiRam isn't taller than a Victor Jr intake with carb amd air cleaner. I have a 408W with boss 351 block Vic Jr heads ported and matched to Victor Jr intake. All ARP studs hyd roller etc. Wanting to convert to Holley Dominator efi with port injection and E85. Do you think I could bump compression ratio to 11.5:1 and also add a Procharger F1a 94 if I run E85? Thanks

[@ArthurSperotto]

I know it's been 3 years and you've probably already made the move... but in case you haven't, yes, you can. I have a 12:1 compression turbo motor, on E85. I pull .75 degrees per lb of boost on the street, to be safe and maintain some resemblance of traction lol. You can be as aggressive as .5 degree/lb if you're actively monitoring knock while tuning. For the track, I use Ignite E90, and can go close to methanol timing numbers. Good luck!

[@shawnsparkman8472]

Try a bit more on the heads. Maybe 220/205cc clearances.

[@normanschwartz8506]

I TOTALLY AGREE AFTER ALL IT'S NOT A 351 IT'S A 408 MORE AIR IS A NECESSITY ESPECIALLY AT HIGHER RPM'S

[@johnnijssen8590]

You have to wonder if cam 3 had less total area under the valve. In other words did cam 2 move the valve to full open quicker. If not then the heads maybe maxed out for flow, so the extra duration could only lose Tq and not gain Hp. This is why if you don't have experience with performance engines you may want to leave building your expensive V8 engine to the pros. The additional cost can be well worth it. I read the comments below. Not everyone is an expert, but don't tell them that.

[@rdy2run332]

Thats intresting i would not have thought the 4150 style throttle body would lose power over the elbow and factory style throttle body.

[@coasthighperformance]

smaller overall area most likely.

[@eddienorrisjr]

Should have better intake or at least spacer. If the throttlebody was same cfm would have made more

[@eddienorrisjr]

If the throttlebody had a spacer or same cfm as the elbow would have made more

[@coasthighperformance]

@@eddienorrisjr 4150 TB does not flow enough, looks way better but not enough CFM

[@eddienorrisjr]

@@coasthighperformance I was refering is the throttlebody type EFI was also 100mm it will produce more that MPI

[@Scubasteve22]

Those AFR 205 's are good heads. But as the 3rd cam shows, your out of cyl head. But be mindful, impressive numbers.

[@indyrock8148]

Lol! I just was going to make the same comment!

[@jamesschwede4117]

I have a very similar combo, this just reinforces that I really NEED a set of AFR 205 heads, but man are they spendy.

[@coasthighperformance]

let us know we can order you a set when ready!

[@brettcotton3927]

I used a set of Trick Flow Rs for heads on my pump gas street car.Also have a stage 5 TFS cam.Have not made any passes yet but I am very happy with this set up.Expect to run 10s N/A.

[@timweb1510]

@@brettcotton3927 do they fit with factory pistons?

[@brettcotton3927]

@@timweb1510 No.I use DSS forged piston with 11:1 compression & pump 93 with octane booster!

[@smoa111]

Would like to see the same engine tested with the trickflow "box R" intake also?

[@coasthighperformance]

Takes a lot of time and we have customer engines to dyno but we will test the Box R vs the Hi Ram on a Big bore 427W

[@Wraith5oh]

You should also do an all in one and include the victor efi intake in that video! 😀

[@classicstangbrn8964]

Enjoyed video thanks for sharing.

[@snowsolo]

Got my CHP street fighter 408 short block dialed in finally. It's a street car not a drag car. Used 185 AFR heads. Custom grind bump stick from Ed Curtis at Flow Tech Induction. 1 7/8 long tubes Dynatech headers 3 inch x pipe and full 3 inch Magnaflow competition exhaust. Stock EEC-IV. Cheap speedmaster spyder intake with 42lb injectors. 92mm Pro-m MAF and 90mm accufab TB. It's a somewhat mild cam but has over 600 lift. Extremely fun street car with drag radials, coil overs 5 lug conversion etc. Car dynoed 533HP and 524TQ to flywheel. People said don't use the 185 heads. I say it's the best size head for a street car. Keeps the powerband right where you want it for the street. I bet I could get more outta it with a better intake. 1989 Fox Mustang tuned by Brain at Dyno tune motorsports in Galloway OH. (Columbus area) This guy knows how to tune your stock Fox EEC-IV. The stock computer on these cars are capable of supporting 1000hp if you have the right tuner and proper build.

[@snowsolo]

Maybe to an email. I don't want to disrespect Ed Curtis and post his cam build on the world wide web.

[@johnnijssen8590]

It is a tough call choosing between the cheaper 185 heads and the 195s or 205s. Under 6000 RPM I just don't think the power gain is worth the extra $500, unless you have it to spend.

[@Cobra427Veight]

@@johnnijssen8590 , I think it also depends on the weight of the car , I bought my TFS 206R heads in Y 2000, i dont know if there were any bigger then , but even with a healthy cam it will pull from 1200 in 4th , also dynos can make the torque figures look better than they actually might be , because they hold the engine back so much ,and rev much quicker in the real world , I'm running ITB's now , kzbin.info/www/bejne/ep7LgoqiZd-FnsU .Cheers

[@sean5comet]

Why are you using the afr 205 heads instead of the 220 heads? I've seen engine builds with the smaller 302 stroker motors and they actually didn't loose any power with the "oversized" afr 220 heads. Just seems like the most logical thing to do given cubic inches and power. If it were me, I would always use the 220 afr heads if they would fit.

[@coasthighperformance]

Actually, you can lose torque an power with a bigger port when not needed, AFR 195's would have been even better depending on cam and RPM, check out the 427W with 9.5:1 comp we did some months back.

[@sean5comet]

@@coasthighperformance meanwhile Stock LS3's flow over 300 cfm with slightly larger than "normal" intake ports running 2.165" intake valves. Stock ported LS3 heads can flow 360 cfm @ 0.600" intake lift. I understand that smaller ports will have a greater velocity than larger ports and will fill the cylinders better at lower rpms. Still though, have read a few articles from reputable magazines on builds showing dyno's running little heads with a "mild" cam and then going all the way to the big boy heads and the big heads only lost out about 10 or so HP way down low, but more than made up for it up top...this was on a 331 stroker too. My thoughts are that 220 cc ports aren't that big at all compared to what the factory has been doing for the past 15-20 years...basically just "under cammed" with room to grow. For me, I would run large cnc ported trick flow high ports, AFR 220's, or the big boy Cleveland style heads that Jon Kaase helped tweak with an Australian company(pricey though) and nothing else, but that's just me. Seems like the only way to show the LS crowd that Ford is still a great option versus LS everything.

[@sean5comet]

@port nut meanwhile, 4000lbs Camaro's with LS3's sporting 260cc intake ports are perfectly fine...

[@daleostrom3613]

I NEED TO KNOW - - - - - What are lobe separation on these cams ??

[@stansilver6791]

I was wondering what you guys thought about using the 102mm TB as opposed to the fairly common 90mm TB you normally see folks using on similar builds. How much do you think the larger TB is worth on this size engine? I'm doing a 427W and already have a 90mm TB, and I am wondering if I'd be much further ahead selling the 90 and going to the larger TB.

[@coasthighperformance]

not much on that HP

[@jp360ford2]

Love your website and love the video. Thank you!

[@maximusvonce1381]

Actually my 438 Windsor is 11.35:1 compression

[@harryharry3193]

Great test. thank you. future tests? similar combo......efi vs box stock holley hp 950 or 1000 cfm? stout engine!

[@Wraith5oh]

Can you take this setup and compare the Victor EFI and TFS Box to the HiRam?

[@grunfieldf8694]

How bout a 408 for a truck to make gobs of torque for pulling, boat, trailer ect. Thanks man

[@stephenhans189]

Are they still in business?

[@rdy2run332]

What was the lobe seperation angle on the 3 cams?

[@I_like_turtles_67]

I say with it being efi. You're looking between 110-114 Probably right in the middle at 112.

[@robertcarlson5485]

What size injectors were used on this?

[@RippinGearz]

Is this a Stock Block 351 or aftermarket? I have a 351w in my garage that is two bolt mains and want to build a 408 out of it... I have Trick Flow 225 High Ports to put on it just not sure if I want to buy a Dart or Boss block instead of a factory block. Not shooting for a million HP or anything but wouldn’t mind playing with a little boost down the road. Any suggestions?

[@sean5comet]

I have a a 351w out of a early 90's f250 and there is build articles showing that they got them to 1,000 hp and then the pistons cracked...this was stock internals. That block is fine

[@Demboyzrunnin1991]

So if he's not using a distributor what is he using???

[@adrianparr2427]

What pistons and all did you guys used notched?

[@turbomopie]

Have you guys done a similar setup purposely built for e85? Like 13.5:1? More duration. Leaning to having you guys build me one for my 66

[@coasthighperformance]

Yes, making 740HP, NA on a 441 on E85, hyd roller.

[@timmartin4798]

@@coasthighperformance what heads for that build

[@coasthighperformance]

@@timmartin4798 That was on a 441 LS3 stroker with our custom heads and actually made 760HP

[@adammidcal2425]

Nice comparisons. Would that 2nd cam be considered street friendly still?

[@coasthighperformance]

Everyone has their own idea of what is street friendly, we focus on powerband/RPM range to focus on where it will live most of the time.

[@adammidcal2425]

Coast High Performance I ended up emailing with Tobias. He kicked down some good knowledge. I’ll be ordering my kit from you guys as the rough bore is done. Thanks guys

[@invisiablebadass]

@@coasthighperformance what size injectors were used here?

[@brapperdan]

Awesome videos but you dont have to have both of you say the same thing before every pull. We get it

[@coasthighperformance]

Thank you for the feedback, we will work on that.

[@randallmason9687]

Will E-85 have the same cooling as methanol?

[@curlracing276]

No

[@dufus2273]

that cam lift seams short. my lift is '576/.600 on my 398 Windsor.. extreme energy comp cam. i'm using 185cc brodix cnc ported heads . produced 500hp on dyno

[@coasthighperformance]

doesnt need much to make power right!!

[@CLEEPER1]

Do you use short travel lifters turn to 7000 rpm or standard travel?

[@franciscoanaya5063]

Is there a set up like this with the 418w ?

[@foxbodyjunkies665]

Have you guys ever tested Flotek 205 sbf heads "the hammer"

[@jcc369]

Hey Tobias, what was that you have instead of a distributor? Brand?

[@coasthighperformance]

MSD Cam sync

[@jcc369]

Coast High Performance what lifters are you running in that build?

[@rodpalm6398]

The first cam with a dual plane would have done better than the single plane.

[@socleanmx6]

What were the specs of the first cam?

[@DBLDREW]

what 4150 TB did you use? do you know the CFM of it?

[@xXBoo56Xx]

I love how the captions read "[Music]" during the dyno pulls haha.

[@tomfowler9577]

Music to my ears!!

[@Lilmac3022]

Were the cam specs durations at .050?

[@jonathanlapointe5503]

Do you have a cam serial number for the second (252) cam? Thanks.

[@edwardmtl]

can you guys explain the differences between this coil on plug vs the pro-m racing racing coil on plug system

[@coasthighperformance]

this is the AEM efi system, will allow you as the user to define spark and fuel tables with a user friendly laptop experience. You can use any smart coil and will allow for individual cylinder timing as well as fully sequential timing and fueling. check them out! AEMelectronics

[@coasthighperformance]

Not sure who Pro M is but our AEM system is similar to Holleys. We will be testing it out on a street/strip 427W Solid roller engine in the next few weeks.

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@coasthighperformance How much power did 427w solid roller make

[@maximusvonce1381]

You need the 220 heads and you would of made 650hp with larger duration cam

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@bigboreracing356 My 438w isnt small

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@bigboreracing356 Nitrous hard on motor

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@bigboreracing356 Runs fantastic and spins to 7200rpm like a swiss watch. 220 heads only way to go uo to 700hp

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@bigboreracing356 I was told nitrous wears engine out way way faster than blower or turbo. Is that false?

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@bigboreracing356 It has a comp cams solid street roller, not a drag cam. Easier on valvetrain.

[@Innovaspeed]

Are you guys running any knock sensors? I'm wanting to do e85 on my identical build, but I'm worried about going too far with timing.

[@coasthighperformance]

No knock sensors, that is why we did not get aggressive with E85

[@WickedOzz]

Are you quoting the various cam durations at .050" camlift?

[@coasthighperformance]

Yes!

[@kawasakimustang]

Good job, can’t wait to see what will work better with mine 👍🏻👍🏻

[@yjcowboy]

what size throttle body did you use with the hi ram?

[@johngregory4801]

102mm

[@toms5oh]

What was the second cam you used? I'd like to get one.

[@coasthighperformance]

Sure, 252 duration cam cost is 425 shipped for custom cams, ETA is about 10 days when order is placed.

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@coasthighperformance Where these solid street roller cams

[@brianvalentine4716]

I would like to order the second cam also

[@brianvalentine4716]

@@coasthighperformance do you have a number I can call to order the second cam you tested?

[@shinobucoco6379]

How much would a build like this cost?

[@mcdirt6455]

like they say, if you have to ask, it's because you can't afford it! 😉

[@racerd3801]

The engine has a very narrow power band from 5500 to 6500 with the big cams and 5200 to 6400 with the small cam. The engine really needs 11.5 to static. What you should have done was put some 87 octane fuel in it and see if the power would come up. Did you ever check the cranking compression? My guess it's not much over 180psi

[@jeremiahzanin573]

What size are the header primaries?

[@coasthighperformance]

1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8

[@angry408w7]

How did you attach the ls coils?

[@coasthighperformance]

We use an AEM Infinity ECU for our Dyno testing

[@angry408w7]

@@coasthighperformance I understand that. I'm using the pro m Efi with ls coils. I noticed you were using stock ls coil brackets. I was wondering how you attached them to the engine.

[@coasthighperformance]

@@angry408w7 Coils are hanging from the ceiling ;)

[@angry408w7]

@@coasthighperformance lol didn't see the wires LMFAO

[@hotdog9262]

peak tq at 5200.. too many build for high performance/race and not daily/truck which most(?) probably need

[@AZCobraman]

Yeeha!

[@PANTYEATR1]

I'm a little disappointed...i have nearly exactly the same engine combination except my engine is a 427 with a .600 cam, 10.8:1 compression, 60lb injectors, billet distributor, MSD digital box and the Trick Flow 351W-R manifolds. it made a mathematical 511hp at the crank (467whp)😔

[@rayman1230]

… but what’s the torque? Simple Mathematical formula for HP is Torque X RPM Divided by 5252. Did you factor in Frictional horsepower loss due to longer rods or larger pistons?

[@PANTYEATR1]

@@rayman1230 I'll get the torque numbers for you when i get to the house. I keep the graph in the car.

[@PANTYEATR1]

@@rayman1230 i made a mistake with the numbers. My car made 435.83 whp and 474.57 wtq. I think when you divide those numbers by .85 you get 511hp flywheel and 558 flywheel tq.

[@maximusvonce1381]

Stroke is 4.1 and bore is 4.125

[@sean5comet]

438...

[@maximusvonce1381]

@@sean5comet Yea

[@barakelium]

I just got off the phone with you guys. FANTASTIC customer service. set me up with everything I needed to stroke the 351 miata to 408. All forged and internally balanced as well as a dampener. My old setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/nF7YcnSwfs6GoK8 . Hot rod red with titanium gold pearl paint. THANKS AGAIN GUYS! Fantastic customer service

[@brandonschnepf5514]

No air! Can't breath!

[@markmccarty9793]

All this high dollar stuff! Let's face it, a cheap 393 on gas dollar for dollar? If you just wanna put a grin on ur face, all that high dollar crap is for the guys that wanna brag about the money they spent! Put the money in the heads and cam! If it pukes, screw it, have spare blocks!

[@johnnijssen8590]

This is what a 215 @ .050 cam looks like in a 427 on this same dyno kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6SugYSngKiknck

[@johnnijssen8590]

The 240 cam made 436Tq @ 3500 and the 252 411. So you choose Tq or Hp. My 427 made 546Tq 2 3500, and 517 @ 2800. We learn from dyno testing and CHP are great to work with, best in town.

[@genemounce8302]

600hp LS cost 5k, 600hp Windsor cost 10k.... Thats a hard pass.

[@coasthighperformance]

LSX is 40-50 years newer and has replaced the small block Chevy. While it may cost more to make more power with the Windsor it is still a valid powerplant with the right components. We build LS engines as well but let's not compare apples to oranges ;)

[@sean5comet]

Show me a new ls build that makes 600hp for 5k. I need full parts list, machining, I want to see the whole cost...because I bet you can't produce said list.

[@sean5comet]

Also, this is new quality parts, not junkyard repurposing spending the bare minimum to produce that power level. I am getting sick of people pulling articles out of context and just blasting the internet with numbers. I personally just bought an 6.0 LQ4 longblock out of an chevy 2500 on ebay for $825 shipped. I am going to get the heads sent out to get fully machined and ported at TEA or Texas Speed...$1,400. Cam and pushrods, $400. 4.060 forged pistons and rings $700 bringing it to 375 cubic inch. Stock crank and rods will be used. ARP bolts for the rods and mains are about $300 and another $300 for the head studs. What about all the other bolts? Balancing and machining estimated at $1,000. Gaskets, bearings...this shit adds up fast... my goals are to have a reliable high 400 hp to almost 500hp, daily driver NA on a stock computer, stock converter, pass emissions and have fun in an older 2005 chevy tahoe. The engine longblock budget is $5,500, but this is only attainable because the block, heads, crank, and rods are going to be reused. My heads ported are $1,400, if I wanted to use AFR LS heads those are over $2k. If I wanted an aluminum LS3 block, that would be another $2k

[@genemounce8302]

@@sean5comet ...Learn to do more than spend money and run your mouth... pretty much all I can tell ya. Proof is in the pudding sweetheart.

[@sean5comet]

@@genemounce8302 go to my page, I built a 408 LQ4 stroker, small cam using a single plane intake and carb made 555hp and 527tq. Big cam going in it and fast lsxrt intake being used. Install is mid next month. Soooooo...what the fuck have you done? Running your lips, you sound poor and miserable...boo hoo, tell someone who cares

[@carrythezero]

Dunno why but reintroducing yourselves before every pull is a bit annoying. Great work though

[@edwinstorz2776]

Young Man Mistakes.....thinking BIG CAM more Power, been there and done it, a Big Cam might sound Tuff or Cool, but you will loose the Race, know your Math and take home the Bucks...... for me, forget the Money, its all BRAGGING RIGHTS FOREVER, LMAO!!!

[@dufus2273]

watch those milodon pans. bottom came out of mine. like the metal crystilized and shattered. inferior metal the machine shop said. trash can item. cost me a rebuild.

[@maximusvonce1381]

Milodon is crap. Kevco racing pans best bang for buck. They all leak at rear of pain unless you get custom built 351w oil pan

[@petejoseph8257]

205cc heads on a 408ci?......joke. Put some real heads on it, not heads off your mom’s station wagon.

[@coasthighperformance]

riiiiiight, put the biggest heads on it, that will always make more power, just like having the biggest cam, yes, that is sarcasm ;)

[@petejoseph8257]

Re read please. I said real heads, not biggest, 205s are small for a 408. Never mentioned cam selection either. Thin skin much?

[@coasthighperformance]

@@petejoseph8257 not at all, never heard of "real heads", application is everything and we were given parts to test them on a 408W with 10.5:1 compression on pump gas so that is what we did.

[@YippeeKiYayMrFalcon]

@@petejoseph8257 Your mom has AFR 205 heads on her station wagon!? Badass.

[@anonymousplanetfambly4598]

@@petejoseph8257 Making abrasive comments and then complaining when someone replies to them implies you're the one with thin skin. Get over yourself.