Chris Molyneux & Mick Cooper Dialogue - The Person-centred Approach and Pluralism - Part 2

It's been a long time coming, but here is the second dialogue around the Person-centred Approach & Pluralism.
We explore Mick's therapy journey, his relationship with the person-centred approach and how Pluralism came about, as well as if it needs to be paired with the PCA and if they are even compatible.
We would love to know your thoughts on the dialogue and any opinions or questions, to help make part 3 :)
Here is the Barry Grant article on Principled and Instrumental Non-directivity that I referred to - christhecounse...
And here is part 1 of the dialogue - • Chris Molyneux & Mick ...
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[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Part 3 will be recorded and posted on Wednesday 16th October, so please get your comments or emails in by then if you would like to see something discussed. Thanks for the engagement and input this far :)

[@sheilahaugh9825]

Hi Chris. Really appreciate you putting this together. Wasnt sure I would make it thru 1.5 hours but i did. I was wondering about some exploration of the 'hows' of empathy, congruence (and by congruence I mean the internal experiencing of the therapist) and love (aka UPR) ie that these 3 conditions are communicated in many ways ...as someone mentioned for example - idiosyncratically. Maybe there are times when offering relxation techniques is a deeply empathic response. Having a young person (30% was it?) sitting in silence and hating it speaks to me lack of empathy towards a client in that moment or, not being able to communicate the empathy (and upr) - the other 2 necessary therapist conditions. Long way round to say: as well as looking at differences and similarities theoretically.... maybe exploring some more how empathy and congruence or what Mick and colleagues have called active congruence and active upr look like in the moment between the 2 of you. Thanks again. Sheila

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Hi Shiela! Lovely to see you pop up and thanks for giving the video and your comments time. I would like to make sure I have fully captured what you are saying so I can try and represent it as best as possible - could you say a bit more about the hope of looking at these things or "with a view to....." - Is it something like seeing how we might both offer these conditions in our different ways/intentions with clients?

[@righteousshift482]

Really enjoyed the different points of view put forward in this discussion. Felt a bit like Mick's approach was how to achieve pragmatic healing and Chris' approach was a broader holistic understanding of underlying conflicts and motivations. Think both approaches have their place. We're such complicated creatures. Look forward to part three!

[@JessicaAustin-z2o]

I really enjoyed watching this and found it to be really interesting, for part 3 I think I would find it useful to understand both of your takes on what being helpful to the client means to you both, i really heard what Mick was saying in terms of wanting to find what is going to help the client, but from whos frame of reference, the therapist or the client, that I was a bit lost on

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Hi Jess - thanks a lot for your comment and I couldn't agree more. I think that's what I was trying to get to towards the end in terms of how do we define helpful, who is the expert and how do we work with this, as Therapists, particularly in line with a certain approach. Really great point that I appreciate you sharing and will definitely come back to this in part 3 :)

[@worldisbig]

I personally resonated with the part on power hence the risk of bullying and manipulating in education and training settings. It is indeed important to constantly have the awareness to respect each other's differences (in this case, therapeutic approach) in education settings, so it doesn't hinder or drive the students towards one particular approach due to educators' preferences. And the part on non-directivity really makes one reflect. Thanks for sharing ❤

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Really good point - thank you! I really agree with you, particularly around the Tutors commitments and self-awareness. I was also thinking about the idea of driving "students towards one particular approach due to the educators preference", which I do agree with, but then there are also situations where educators offer courses in one particular approach (as we do with PCA) and that students are signing up to learn that particularly, so that can make the training one approach specific. I hope that makes some sense, because I really agree with your comment, but there are times this can be difficult too, particularly when the course is about one approach in particular. As you say, maybe ultimately, it's about holding respect and awareness of other approaches, even if the training is in one specific approach. Thanks again for your comment, really appreciate your thoughts.

[@worldisbig]

@@ChrisTheCounsellor hi Chris, I should have been clearer in my comment. The statement I made was applicable for those general counseling courses, not the specific kind of training course (like PCA). I do believe if the students signed up for courses with a specific approach, they actually made their own choice, not being driven by the educators👍. Looking forward seeing more of your videos. Part three please!!! ❤️

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

@@worldisbig Ah okay, I understand more now, thank you for the clarification and yes, I agree with you and also that there is also merit in being aware of how these things are also held on specific approaches training too. Looking forward to future videos too and thanks for your comments and support.

[@martinlofty1499]

Valuable, thank you. It would be good to discuss other Person Centred practitoners and their contributions and developments of Rogers work, like Bozarth's idiosyncratic Empathy came to mind.. many people extended and explored Rogers work.. I felt alot of history was missing/ unacknowledged in the characterisation/ opposition of Rogers 1957, 1959 vs Pluralistic..

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Hi Martin, thanks a lot for taking the time to watch the video and leave a comment. Could you possible just say a bit more about the last section - “I felt a lot of history was missing…”

[@martinlofty1499]

@@ChrisTheCounsellor I feel that I have discovered many examples of people working with, for example, ‘the core conditions’ exploring and extending the understanding of them and their implications when working with different clients in a way that creates a much richer and more vibrant community of understanding of the PCA, which for me has meant that it feels like it has contemporary relevance and potential in a way that I felt was not represented in what felt like a critique of a ‘classical client centred’ approach stuck in the past. Surely its possible that Rogers defined a framework for a coherent methodology and that also within that there is scope for new understandings and contemporary aliveness. When I read someone like, for example, Peter F. Schmid I get excited about the exploration of encounter and dialogue that feels like it adds richness to the PCA whilst remaining coherent with the principles and values within it. I also feel similarly about Relational Depth and Existential Touchstones. Rogers himself was always evolving and refining his conceptual framework. When I read Person-Centred Therapy: A Pluralistic Perspective I felt a more nuanced understanding of the history of the PCA was acknowledged but I felt confused by what felt like a jump to Pluralism and re-appropriation of ‘person centred’ at the end; changing it from a term referring to a history of values and methodological research and approaches into, different people will like and benefit from different things (which I agree with btw). Toward the end of the conversation, I felt like what’s at stake did begin to get drawn out which seemed to be the relevance of a Person-Centred therapeutic modality in the present, what that means and who has the power to define it.

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

@@martinlofty1499 Thanks so much for expanding on that. There is little I can add to that because I feel you have really captured a lot of what I was feeling and feels a wonderful response to the idea of PCA not evolving and also how a misrepresentation or understanding of the approach can lead to some of these (in my opinion) misfitting identifications of "person-centred". Reappropriation also feels like a great word to capture something of that process and what can often go on. Thanks so much for your time with this, your thoughts around it and how you have managed to capture it.

[@DHansenPersonCentredTherapist]

@@martinlofty1499 I just want to echo Chris' comments here, and thank you for sharing your thoughts which I've found really helpful as I try and navigate all this stuff!

[@Becky-be3jb]

@@ChrisTheCounsellor Thanks Chris for holding your own in supporting the person-centred approach. It felt to me there was a subtle power dynamic going on….or perhaps Mick was just playing devil’s advocate?! I am surprised that many counsellors believe PC practice is just about the core conditions when the reality is a fundamentally deeper theory in supporting our client’s phenomenological experience and much more!😊

[@tomcowancounselling]

I've watched the first 16 minutes which interested me as a PC therapist. However I'm going to have to stop because the adverts that are running every 4 or 5 minutes. They are very distracting. It may just be because of my neuro difference. Is there any way you can turn them off so it's a more focused viewing experience? Warmest, tom

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

Oh gosh, sorry Tom - it is set up that KZbin just puts them in automatically at (supposedly) appropriate times but I had no idea it was that frequent! Let me see what I can do to reduce or turn them off - apologies

[@JayBeichman]

@@ChrisTheCounsellor also if people don't want adverts they can subscribe to KZbin -- I just press the 'skip' button asap! :-)

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

@@JayBeichmanAh Jay! Lovely to see your name pop up :) 👋🏻

[@JayBeichman]

@@ChrisTheCounsellor Good to see you still talking about therapy etc! Maybe see you around Brighton sometime. I hear rumours through the grapevine of some 'in real life' Brighton meetings for therapists about the politics/therapy interface...

[@russellbyrne376]

Chris can you please provide the link for part one

[@ChrisTheCounsellor]

That's a very good point, Russell, and not sure how I missed that - thank you! Here it is - kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXyQhn2iodNres0 - and I have added it to the video description too