Christian Life and Symbolic Living | Chicago talk

[@lisaonthemargins]

As Jordan Peterson has said: "I think he's touched with more than a little bit of genius"

[@jarlnicholl1478]

Better than being touched by a genius.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@@jarlnicholl1478 Depends, is the genius a hot chick?

[@johannakunze3300]

Lisa do you have a source for that quote?

[@lisaonthemargins]

@@johannakunze3300 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2HFZqCkqrCErNU Within the first few seconds of the vid

[@ImNotJoshPotter]

Do people still listen to Jordan Peterson? That guy needs to clean his room.

[@UnathiGX]

This man is one of the most important people in the world.

[@oambitiousone7100]

He is in mine.

[@maelstrom2313]

I agree, especially for the flood that's coming

[@jenesaisvraimentpasquoimet8473]

I don't exactly get who he is... could someone explain? 😅😅

[@UnathiGX]

@@jenesaisvraimentpasquoimet8473 He interprets symbols and relate them to our real world...and demonstrate how those symbols mean to our lives.

[@naikhanomtom7552]

I'm from a working class background working a manual job for low pay. On Sunday at liturgy I mix with orthopedic surgeons, university lecturers, drug addicts in assisted living accomodation, Syrian immigrants...nowhere else would we all be together as a community sharing food and coffee like we do after worship. It's truly beautiful.

[@JAMESKOURTIDES]

My street in my neighborhood has come together and about 7 families have become really close. Some of us were close before, but it was Hurricane Irma here in Florida that brought us all together. We had to all install shutters on our homes as a Cat 5 storm was projected to hit us directly, and we all went around helping and supporting each other. We now celebrate that storm every years as it's given us all an amazing tightnit community to help each other and even assist in raising each others kids.

[@RogerTheil]

This is EXACTLY what needs to happen. I remember watching a movie in school, and it was obviously some 70s-era propaganda film, but it had a pretty touching lesson, based on a historical event. It was about a post-Civil War Southern farming town that had known nothing but strife since the war as the black and white communities could no longer get along, and blamed each other for it. Tensions wound up to a very very high point, until one of the black family's farms caught on fire during the middle of the night. Thing was, this field was connected to everyone else's field, so in the middle of the night, the whole community dropped their differences, woke each other up, and all banded together to stop the fire and the community was saved. Despite how overly simplistic this movie portrayed this whole scenario, it shows how potential disaster is a great and virtually immediate way to connect communities, despite whatever separations or divisions might already exist. Hopefully it doesn't take shit to already hit the fan for our local communities to do this, but this way of thinking will help many many of them survive and thrive into the uncertain future.

[@emilytaege]

Oh, nothing to see here but JONATHAN EXPLAINING ALL OF HUMANITY.

[@VACatholic]

It breaks my heart that all people see when they hear you talk about the masculine and feminine is that you want a "return to the patriarchy". Our society truly is sick. Thank you Jonathan for providing some medicine. It is sorely needed, and we are privileged to have you speaking during this trying time.

[@VACatholic]

@Andrew Christopher Feminism is really creepy when you look into its origins. files.catbox.moe/9xe5gj.png

[@VACatholic]

@Neon Rogue check the picture. It's not a coincidence that this is happening. Learn about the movements. Read up on the players. Don't take my word for it.

[@VACatholic]

@@cnote3598 Feminism is pushed by the media, large corporations, and academia. Look into who owns the media, and large corporations, and who dominates academia. Then look into the Kalergi plan, and the UN's plan of Replacement Migration. It's not a coincidence

[@KillerKabel]

The Feminine. What an interesting concept, and what a way to describe it. The masculine being manifested as hierarchy and the feminine as the.. Almost mysterious place that exists around the hierarchy. Such a shame to not see it explored more in contemporary culture.

[@TheMeaningCode]

At 44:00, “Without the top part, everything starts to fragment.” That reminds me of the time I had an arborist working on my yard and he told me that one must never cut the head off of a tree, because it is the head of the tree that tells the tree how to grow. I have since seen the truth of that because the power company cut the head off of our tree when it got too close to the powerlines. It is still alive, but the branches have grown in strange and awkward ways and the tree is unbalanced and a good wind storm will probably finish it off. “For Christ is the Head of the church...”

[@thestraightroad305]

As a lover of trees, this illustration means a lot to me. Your arborist said a profound thing and you got it. Thanks for sharing.

[@MHAFOOTBALL]

So much of St. Maximus the Confessor in this talk. Boss

[@oambitiousone7100]

"We need the hierarchy and we need the space"(47:10): much ❤ for this distinction. Argued with some friends about women not being in power -- to which I replied that, in the home, the woman rules. My grandmother never held a job, but if there was money spent or decisions made, she was at the head of it. She was queen of the hearth. This idea that all influence and import is being brashly masculine (scoff).

[@megalith2436]

Andrew Christopher - women have done nothing of the sort, feminists have.

[@zezozio]

@@megalith2436 Women, by not standing up to their crazy sisters are accomplice of this folly.

[@Jacob011]

Brilliant talk! Really concise exposition of the way you think.

[@dawnmuir5052]

BRILLIANT!! Amazing how he is able to immediately answer every question so profoundly, in all of his many interviews an Q & A that I've seen.

[@benigardqkzu8819]

Please write a book Jonathan. 🙏

[@Vesuya]

His brother Mathieu does. Check em out!

[@rhb30001]

Vesuvias what are the titles to them?

[@P3rformula]

rhb30001 - search “language of creation Matthieu Pageau” on Amazon

[@ChibiBoxing]

Its always good to see you having a deep exposition within the church!

[@sealevelbear]

Love the format here, wonderful talk, and very good Q&A, thank you!

[@betterdaysahead3746]

Your commentary near the end about the masculine and feminine is superb. Thank you. Please keep up the great work. God bless.

[@DaveDude571]

Great talk! These videos and Matthieu's book on the Language of Creation are rejuvenating in these lost modern times. This "remembering" has helped my excitement to actively participate in Christ's story in church and in daily life. The intellectual discussion is just one aspect!

[@ThatJetstream]

Jesus is King

[@nbip2845]

+ + + JESUS IS GOD + + + kanye is a worthless clown

[@tessysingh1327]

Jonathan Pageau at his best! Another person who has hit upon the break down of Catholic parish life is E Michael Jones in his book The Slaughter of Cities: Urban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing.

[@Szpongiel007]

Looking forward to hearing to your next lecture! Thanks a lot.

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@bookclubarcadia3477]

Good speeche. Greetings from Greece.

[@melaniereeder2349]

When he’s walking about “the suburbs” and how detached we are from each other reminds me of the houses in Hell/Purgatory in The Great Divorce by C S Lewis

[@michaeldavidnvitales]

This is so good. Thank you for sharing Jonathan. 🙏🏻

[@paulet990]

Amazing As always. Thank you, Jonathan.

[@de0den]

This is an enthralling talk, especially toward the end. Especially the answer to the last question: 44:10 ... To say that in today's world. You say that "...the modern world is actually hyper-masculine." I have seen things differently. Twenty years ago I concluded that we are living in "The Age of the Feminine". That feminine sensibilities predominate. That because of that western culture is collapsing.

[@ellefanaten]

Great stuff 👍😁🙏☝️

[@JordonHill]

Gotta mention that Jonathan’s talk is biblical as in the story of Abraham asking God how many righteous ppl will it take in Sodom and Gomorrah for it to be saved. This is not a petition from Abraham it is a discussion about the metaphysical law that binds a community together. Basically if you have a community without a church, it will fragment and be destroyed. That’s the law!

[@kaufmanat1]

When he discusses cities I noticed he talks about the need for human protection. We initially developed clothing as protection from the elements then man kills man and we start to build cities as a means of protection from other men. One of the tragedies of World War 1 was we finally were witnessing the use of the nation in order to destroy the city-state. The devastation of World War I resulted from the endless amount of people that a nation could draw from to fuel its military machine. For the first time ever in human history is military Powers had seemingly endless human. Capital. It is allowed for Warfare to be carried on at what historically would have been considered impossible levels. With nuclear weaponry we had finally created a weapon that men were not able to defend themselves against by any means. It is interesting to see where we will go next

[@sac78008]

22:50 "And let's be honest, if there is a crisis, what do you think is going to happen in a world that's completely fragmented? Right? If there's a major crisis in a our suburbs where you barely even know your neighbor two houses down. what do you think is going to happen? It might not be pretty. It might be an opportunity, though, for people to actually come together, but could also become an opportunity for everybody to rip each other's hair out because we don't know each other. We don't trust each other." That comment aged well...

[@illegitimategame]

Great talk

[@dandimit5104]

I had to resubscribe to your channel today.

[@cuthbertsboots5733]

First

[@stefangernert3499]

🤣🤣🤣 hahahahaha

[@lisaonthemargins]

Beat me to it! 😂😉

[@cuthbertsboots5733]

@@lisaonthemargins That's okay, it's not a competition.

[@oambitiousone7100]

@@cuthbertsboots5733 It's not a competition: it's a hierarchy!

[@hermeticdragon2643]

Society has become less social and neighbours don't know each other. Why would you want a community? So people can use social pressure with the threat of exile or violence if you don't think like them and act like them? I doubt the medieval community was little different from a soviet community when it comes to the mandatory nature of belief and the punishments were much the same. The new Jerusalem and the new heaven and earth is the fixed community to come. The loss of community that we lament is the regret of a loss of a lesser evil. Loved the video. You sir, are a gem and I believe you are doing Gods work. God bless.

[@itsokaytobeclownpilled5937]

Hermetic Dragon You must be young. The America you see right now didn’t exist 30 years ago. And, no. They were nothing like a Soviet commune. People were self sufficient and helped out their neighbor on the rare occasion the neighbor needed help.

[@hermeticdragon2643]

@@itsokaytobeclownpilled5937 I'm in my mid 30's so kinda young but not really and I'm from Britain, not America. The picture you paint reminds me of the idea of the American frontier. A self sufficient family, living in a dispersed community. That's probably just my imported notion of an American life in the past. It really matters where someone lives. The city, a town or in the countryside. I suppose in America you have the suburbs, but that doesn't really exist in the U.K. Everything here is smaller because of the history. The roads were designed for horse and carriage and the houses have small rooms because they are easier to heat by fireplace before the invention of central heating. My point about a community is this. I don't even know what a community is and I'm not sure I want one. I mean, if I had grown up in town where people actually lived, worked and socialised with their neighbours I may feel different but put me in that environment now and I would resent the threat of the crowd. This exists in all groups, gangs and crowds. We have laws. Friends have rules. Break the rules, lose your friends. A Christian community may demand going to Church. A Muslims community, the Koran. A communist community, belief in communist ideals. There is an old story, I believe from America during the frontier days. A community Christian community where people were expected to go to church. This man had two sons who refused to go to church so the town killed them after they missed two Sundays in a row because they convinced themselves they were evil and they all ganged up on them. The father then burnt down the entire town in the night and ran away. My point is, it's all well and good to have a medieval model of a community but God help anyone who doesn't obey the crowd. Now, I know I am wrong in my resentment of a community. I know community is better. I know the ideal is a good community. I just have never known one to exist...but perhaps I shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[@itsokaytobeclownpilled5937]

Hermetic Dragon People in America won’t shoot you for not going to church. People leave you alone. They will stop in if you look like you’re having troubles though. We are very very nice people. (When I say “we” I mean the descendants of the British empire”. Europeans from Ireland, Italy, or Eastern Europe I can’t speak for)

[@nergethic7759]

Great talk! I'm struggling with the idea of women taming men, it's present in tales (like Beauty and the Beast) and doesn't seem unnatural but in terms of women representing earthly part/potential and men hierarchy, it seems reversed to me in that case. Any ideas?

[@JonathanPageau]

Think of it not as taming like we tame a horse, but housing, civilizing and helping a wild man learn to care and live with others.

[@DbolOnlyGangster]

16:05 is me when I get my mind blown.

[@kaufmanat1]

That's an interesting idea. If humans didn't exist to organize and "name" the universe, what would exist above the fundemental particles of the universe interacting in various ways? There are protons in stars, there are protons in lions. Lions and stars are made of identical particles. In that way, they are the same. What higher order of understanding would exist?

[@Kyle-4g343]

I greatly anticipate the day Jonathan Pageau and this skillful insights into our spiritual and cultural history as a people appear on JRE. Would even love to see him joined by someone like Bret Weinstein or Sam Harris.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Kyle him on jre would be great, but those grabblers would distract

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Also joe rogan shills for Zion so why would he promote Christianity in any way?

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Kyle you gotta snap out of it Kyle

[@riggel8804]

Good performance

[@MadFrenzy582]

31:52 well said

[@ElizabethPD24]

As a Protestant, I would never have in the Mail communion nor have I ever heard of that ! It is a sacrament, I would not feel comfortable cheapening it like that... I think we call all agree Catholics , Orthodox and Protestants we should not partake of communion like that... so sad

[@davidbushhouse1730]

www.amazon.com/s?k=communion+cups+and+wafer+set&crid=1CF9NQS45PLOT&sprefix=communion%2Caps%2C237&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_9

[@ElizabethPD24]

David Bushhouse oh I believe he is telling the truth but I just had never heard of it till now, and totally agree with his negative opinion of it...

[@itsokaytobeclownpilled5937]

Rachel Parra DeLong You must have never been sick or laid up.

[@guimochet]

40:06 the metaverse 😂

[@HappyLittleBoozer]

Regarding the thing about school shooters in medieval towns - I'm absolutely certain there would be school shooters in the circumstances you describes. The thing is there would be far, far fewer of them created. There's a saying that perfectly summarizes the point you were making: "It takes a village..."

[@bmc8871]

Hi Jonathan. What’s the symbolism of contemporary circumcision? Thanks.

[@thebluedan]

I have a question. Who invented the sign of the cross? Is it even biblical? I see it done in catholic and orthodox...even Lutheran churches.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Are you talking about the crucifix itself or the hand waving crucifix commonly associated with priests?

[@thebluedan]

Jeggson Vohees the hand jesters.

[@Bakarost]

@@thebluedan from Wikipedia The sign of the cross was originally made in some parts of the Christian world with the right-hand thumb across the forehead only.[3] In other parts of the early Christian world it was done with the whole hand or with two fingers.[4] Around the year 200 in Carthage (modern Tunisia, Africa), Tertullian wrote: "We Christians wear out our foreheads with the sign of the cross".[5] Vestiges of this early variant of the practice remain: in the Roman Rite of the Mass in the Catholic Church, the faithful make this gesture on the forehead, on the lips, and on the heart at the proclamation of the Gospel;[3] on Ash Wednesday a cross is traced in ashes on the forehead; holy oil (called chrism) is applied on the forehead for the sacrament of Confirmation (called the Holy Mystery of Chrismation in the Eastern Orthodox Church, as Orthodox call the Sacraments by the name "Holy Mystery"). By the 4th century, the sign of the cross involved other parts of the body beyond the forehead.[3]

[@Bakarost]

@@thebluedan hope that answers ur question God bless

[@artemiostriantafyllou7986]

@Desire Of All Nations I'm sorry, but whatever was Christ crucified on again? I forgot the exact shape, but, for some strange reason, I think it had 4 right angles at a single point. Well, I could also just be imaginining things...

[@David_A._Ream]

♥️✝️♥️

[@kaufmanat1]

The answer at 43:00 is spot on. Pageau says some weird stuff... The problem is he keeps getting stuff right lol 😂 Atheists start with very reasonable premises, but they're conclusions and predictions are absurd. Pageau, and even Christianity in general, starts with very odd sounding premises, but the conclusions and predictions and the results really are hard to argue with. Look at Christian nations. Look at the US in particular, arguably the most Christian country in the world... It's the most diverse, 3rd largest population, top 5 largest land mass, second largest economy in the world (only recently overtaken by the behemoth of China), international police force, military force the world has never seen... I mean, it's a pretty successful country. Compare it to atheist and Muslim countries... They're coming here... We aren't really flocking to them lol.

[@06rtm]

Just include Kanye West in every title to get more views. Christian life, symbolic living, and Kanye West

[@johnbuckner2828]

my opinion on hierarchy and femininity. those in authority need to be hired or elected to the positions as competent coordinators. when they lose perspective of their place as a public servant meant to protect, organized and maintain a healthy balance between the loyalty & needs of the individual and the whole, the position needs to be filled with somebody who can or will. when they keep nism and passion of the self outweighs their virtue and concern of the others, it's time to step down to a different position in the hierarchy. we don't see much of this today in the corporate, political and many times in the religious institutions. this is much of the problem. the piggish, hedonistic and manipulative attitude of the masculine toward the feminine is coming to light and women are pissed off. there don't seem to be enough masculine protectors of the beauty & sacredness of the feminine and many women are filling the position. sometimes they themselves become piggish, hedonistic manipulators.

[@AugustasKunc]

+

[@lisaonthemargins]

Is it just me or is he speaking in a tone that's more dramatic than usual? 🤔😅

[@juicerino]

sounds like Jonah in Nineveh...

[@LoremLorem]

With respect, I think you are under valuing the care of a group that has been evolved in internet and connects mainly through it. Were you not helped when the flood struck?

[@preslim84]

What the hell is going on in the background? Have some respect for the speaker.

[@sealevelbear]

“Let the children come.....”

[@NothingHumanisAlientoMe]

Clout gang

[@MahaSattva]

I am pretty sure he ripped off a large part of this speech from Jordan Peterson. I saw one of Jordan's class lectures that sounds extremely similar to parts of this.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Maha Sattva pretty sure you can gofy

[@himl994]

Maha Sattva pretty sure JP is heavily influenced by Jonathan

[@MahaSattva]

@@stephenpaccone8120 That seems like an appropriate response to someone calling out a copycat. Good Job!

[@MahaSattva]

@@himl994 Pretty sure that's completely backwards and regardless of that point, that wouldn't justify stealing someone else's lecture points without credit. lol.

[@KillerKabel]

@@MahaSattva Peterson and Pageau are good friends and have talked many times. They've got many things in common and help each other in figuring these things out. The way I understood it was that they both had similar ideas and that's kinda how they came to meet. Pageau understands symbolism and Christianity deeply. Peterson understands psychology and meaningful narrative deeply. No need to choose sides between these two fellas they're on the same side if anything.