Christian Nationalism - James Coates, Tim Stephens & Jacob Reaume (The King and His Kingdom)

[@rinihogewoning6528]

While I lean more towards Pastor Coates' understanding on the debate, I found this discussion to be very insightful. In the end, I love that all three of these men desire to exalt Christ and proclaim him as Lord.

[@nathanhimbeault8433]

Interesting. I was at this conference and the feeling there was that Coates was arguing against his own position… the way the audience was reacting to some of his comments 😅 I pray he realizes the contradictions in some of his beliefs and comes to a fuller understanding of some of these important theological issues.

[@davisgeorgemoye9689]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your perspectives on these matters. As a member of the Church in Florida, I need to hear leaders, who have suffered for [His] name's sake, Biblically answer these questions.

[@thesistahhhzzz]

Coates explanation biblically rung as solid, strong and accurate to me. 💥 and his statement was so profound - God gave the sword to the government not the church!

[@piercenesteby4879]

The sword most certainly does belong to the government. CN does not argue that the Church ought to be the one bearing the sword. It argues that the government needs a standard by which to bear the sword, and that standard cannot be an arbitrary one. It is either God's standard or man's standard. In addition, there are a plethora of verses instructing the government to submit to the Lord. I hope this was helpful, friend.

[@thesistahhhzzz]

I think there was some bad CN hermeneutics, red herrings and no solid OT mastery… ie) book of Zechariah. BUT I applaud all of them for their stance during Covid! 👏 👏 👏 - Unity in the essentials, diversity of the non-essentials, and charity in all things! (Augustine)

[@torcoffee2747]

C'mon Pastor Coates! Great conversation

[@darylherlick2344]

Not a pre mill ?

[@torcoffee2747]

@@darylherlick2344 I am premill, that's meant to be an encouraging c'mon

[@shannontederoff246]

One of the things that would have been helpful with this panel would have been a definition of CN at the outset. I would encourage everyone to take a listen to Pastor Tim's series as linked above. He does a great job of articulating what most Christians are advocating when they talk about CN.

[@bchrspctr]

Interesting convo, would’ve liked to hear more from Tim Stevens. Glad you can consider these things together. I think Coates is a bit naive and needs to study more outside the Masters Sem. training

[@shannontederoff246]

Tim has spoken more on CN on the link above. I thought this was helpful.

[@tm510a]

This is what I believe ............"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,"

[@darylherlick2344]

Tim at 37.5min to the end ...Perfection buy all.

[@spartakos3178]

We should resist, with all available means that God has granted us, Reason, Law, etc. The neo-paganism of our times. We should not simply be peacefully marched into the ghettos.... to do so is unloving, not just to those who will live under Tyranny... but to the Tyrant who will never be confronted by the Truth of the Gospel. Christian Nationalism is speaking Truth to power. Eventually every knee will bow... it will go better for everyone if more knees bow sooner.

[@darylherlick2344]

Just can't do the pre mill....I know so many "believers" who sit on there hands weighting for christ to show to do the work!!!

[@2timothy23]

Equating pre-mil with Christians sitting on their hands is a ridiculous straw man argument. There are plenty of Christians that believe and love out Romans 10:8-17 no matter their eschatology. This accusation is not argument for CN, just a distraction. We're to go to the God-breathed Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17) for our theology concerning this matter, not assume the motives and walk of other believers.

[@thesistahhhzzz]

AMEN!@@2timothy23

[@michaelart4878]

with... 💘

[@jenninscory]

There will ALWAYS be; Families, Churches, Government until the return of Christ. We are called to minister to our Families (Agreed), We are called to minister in the Church (Agreed), But we are not called to minister to the entity that wields the physical Sword??? Because the government has the actual sword is all the more reason to have this conversation. Remember though, I am not UNDER the law of God, I get to serve and love him by following his Commandments. Our view of law is greatly distorted.

[@roxanasalazar1234]

Very broad points on the subject

[@lukasmiller486]

It’s a broad subject. That’s the point.

[@justintrammell7839]

I agree, probably should have defined the term. Eschatological positioning plays a big role in Christians view of the term. (Again they didn’t really define the term)

[@marjoriefortney1136]

The Bible says that when Jesus comes we will be caught up to Him in the air. He will not touch down. It is really important that we get this right because before Jesus comes, Satan will appear as Christ and deceive many. He will look like Christ etc. Satan will not come in the clouds and the dead will not be raised up as the Bible says will happen when Jesus does come. Be careful not to set people up for this great deception by Satan.

[@michaelart4878]

💘

[@thesistahhhzzz]

Amen! This bad CN theology ties right into the Antichrist agenda (The Great Awakening)…

[@thesistahhhzzz]

I also noticed that post millennialism was downplayed… why? Isn’t Christian Nationalism and Post millennialism inextricably linked?

[@robyncampbell1838]

No, it's not. Those are different issues. Lots of Christian nationalists aren't postmillenial and lots of postmillenials aren't Christian nationalist. All three major end times views were represented by these pastors, but that wasn't the topic at hand.

[@lukasmiller486]

29:00-29:47 Did he just say what I thought he said? What happened to Freedom of religion? You sure wouldn’t be saying that if it were laws against churches of your religion.

[@theoppositionpodcast]

Which verse talks about freedom of religion? Is it the one about tearing down the high places, or was it perhaps the view of Jehu?

[@lloydmckay3241]

Any civilized country does not reject others religious practices and beliefs if they are for the upliftment of the human spirit. There is a great difference between real followers and the lip service cheaters in any bona fide religion. After all there is one Supreme God for all the people of the world although the presentation maybe different according to time and place and people. There are three modes in material existence. Goodness, Passion and Ignorance . And according to these modes people have their own various attractions to aspects of the Supreme Absolute. The mode of Goodness is liberating. The mode of Passion is binding and the mode of ignorance is degrading. Mostly these modes are mixed and come and go. Regulation of all manner of people is for their eventually elevation to ultimately transcending even the mode of goodness to pure love of God.

[@holdthewinds]

Do you keep God's 7th day Sabbath holy? Or do you observe the non-Sabbath, Sunday?

[@theoppositionpodcast]

Sunday is the new Sabbath. Scripture mentions the first day of the week as the day they gathered

[@theoppositionpodcast]

@ray15633 So there's only 9 commandments now? Jesus scribbled one of the commandments out that was written in stone? Or, how does that work exactly? Do you think Christians ought to meet for worship every week?

[@theoppositionpodcast]

@ray15633 I'm not sure I'm following your argument. You're saying keeping the Sabbath holy in the OT was a way to earn salvation, but not anymore because of Jesus? You're saying we should meet everyday for worship like in Christ's day?

[@Cheeseisparkerish]

A nation does well to make its foundation the bible. A nation does not do well to take over the position of pastor or teacher. Can the government be biblically overseen by elders? Can the people who are not believers leave the church, without leaving the borders of this hypothetical Christian nationalist state? Here's my guess of the best that Christians can do, with regard to nation building: Found a nation on wisely prioritized Christian principles. Maintain the separation of church and state, for the church is ordained by God, and the government is a reflection of the sinful flesh. Understand that the church is called to love unconditionally and be generous with finances, but the government is not. Understand that if God allows the destruction of a Christianity-rooted nation, that is His will. Understand that any nation can be impacted by faithful prayer.

[@TwentyTwoThirtyThree]

Why would we care about anyone leaving the church? If you are in Canada, we are currently living in a Christian state. Our founders were Christian nationalists....we now live in a society that has rejected Christ, but still wants the fruits of a Christian nation.

[@TwentyTwoThirtyThree]

And the government doesn't need to be overseen by elders, where does that idea come from?

[@roxanasalazar1234]

Did any of the tree said that or it is a comment?

[@makeitcount179]

Is Christian Nationalism like a theocracy? Does anyone think that can be practically achieved without the return of Christ Himself?

[@thesistahhhzzz]

In China 🇨🇳 there is only one eschatology and that’s premillennialism. Why? Because with the plain literal reading of Scripture you’ll end up with premillennialism.

[@robyncampbell1838]

That is not true. All the end times views found here (except some very fringe ones) are found there too.

[@bugsocsollie1694]

​@robyncampbell1838 Actually, they're not. Without viewing Scripture Dispensationally, you must omit, ignore, privately interpret, or be completely ignorant of sound doctrine. We are in a Dispensation of Grace that was given to Paul for the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1-2), and it was given to him because Israel fell in unbelief. Romans 11:25. Israel is blinded until this Dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles is over. Romans 11:25.

[@theoppositionpodcast]

Hi. I think you got the wrong KZbin video for that comment. This is about Christian Nationalism

[@bugsocsollie1694]

@@theoppositionpodcast ...Christian nationalism" is also not a Biblical doctrine.

[@theoppositionpodcast]

Define Christian Nationalism@@bugsocsollie1694

[@thesistahhhzzz]

Oaths? Is that more of an eisegesis than exegesis? I understood it as how the world will totally blaspheme God’s holy name through everyday convo and media.. how would you punish them? Let’s say I’m at work, and I hear my colleague blaspheme Jesus’ name… She or he has to be punished under CN? Biblically … you should show that person their need for a Savior because of their breaking of the 3rd commandment. -CN doesn’t make sense to me. - and I’ve got other questions too… - like blessed are the meek but I think men today want to be “masculine” without the meekness. Jesus said that to actually inherit the earth, meekness is the key! - how does CNers take in the perilous times we’re living in? Or the Romans 8 wrath on a nation? How can CN reconcile this? By ignoring those scriptures?

[@shannontederoff246]

It is good discussion :)

[@bugsocsollie1694]

The Body of Christ Church doesn't inherit the earth. Israel does. That's who Jesus came for, and that's who He was talking to when He said that. Israel will be kings and Priests on earth. Israel will be the light unto the Gentiles. Without rightly dividing the Word of Truth between what is meant for Israel and what is meant for the Body of Christ Church, confusion is the only possible outcome.

[@holdthewinds]

It is Jesus' church. The church has no authority.

[@rinihogewoning6528]

I agree with your first sentence. However the church's authority is the very word of God (sola scriptura) as given to ministers and elders to preach and steward by the very mercy of God. 1 Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:1-6, ESV)