Christian Nationalism | Voddie Baucham

This sermon was given by Dr. Voddie Baucam on January 18, 2023 at the IOPT Pre-conference on Christian Nationalism, preceding the 2023 National Founders Conference in Southwest Florida.
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[@richard-fy2mu]

We are citizens of the Kingdoms of God living in the city of men. I am not here to build a man-made Kingdom, but I am a citizen living in America and unless the loyalty to America violates loyalty to Christ, I will defend my nation from all enemies foreign or domestic. It does not make me anything other than a Christian living in America. God first, family second, country third, all else forth.

[@PhilLarson1956]

This is a complete misunderstanding of Augustine's City of God. For him, the two cities are the seed of Cain vs. the seed of Seth. The two are nowhere mixed. Read Augustine for yourself. Sadly, some "scholars" from significant seminaries make the same error. Just read Augustine for yourself if you want to use this language.

[@caitlin6151]

The Christians who really need to listen to this message and let it settle down in their hearts, will not do it. Some of them have forgotten that Jesus said I will build MY Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He did not say America will build my church.

[@KARMICHAEL11]

But no one can argue He hasn’t been using America to do it. As long as the tool submits to use, it will remain in use, and that is a blessed position to be in!

[@isaacscott1063]

@@KARMICHAEL11 you’re the type person she’s talking. There are nations more godly than America.

[@irksomebenji4543]

@@KARMICHAEL11 well said, America is definitely being used by god.

[@josiahvega671]

@@KARMICHAEL11 and he’s used China, and India and others. What’s your point?

[@KARMICHAEL11]

@@josiahvega671 to respond to the false dichotomy of the original comment.

[@MP15aug]

We are members of the kingdom of God. That is the nation we should see ourselves as being part of. After all who's army are you apart of, Christ or the nations.

[@heartofalegend]

I'm sorry, but did you even LISTEN to this message? If you say yes, I don't believe you. Your false binary is precisely what Voddie dealt with and thoroughly debunked as just that. Deal with his treatment of this topic and explain where his reasoning was off, and then you'll have credibility. Anyone can just sit back with their arms folded, choose to ignore an argument, and just keep asserting their opinion. Atheists do it all the time. Do better, please.

[@Blue_Dun]

@@MP15aug I know your comment is old, but I just had to reply with...you NAILED IT. The policy objectives of the current politicians in the US who are so-called "Christian Nationalists" are dangerous to a multi-cultural democracy for both Chistians and non-Christians. I can see that...even as someone who has been a Christian my whole life.

[@Symone77]

Many people speaking on Christian nationalism who doesn’t really understand what it is. Too much intellectualism. I agree with your comment. If God doesn’t give a revelation, people won’t understand your comment. On the day of Pentecost, a nation was born in a day. That nation is all people truly in Christ. It is not defined by borders, witty inventions of man, or carnal motives of men. I don’t need to add nationalist to anything. Just acknowledging me as a Christian wanting to hear well done my good & faithful servant one day, is good enough for me. Now I want out of my belly to flow rivers of living water, that might bring others to Christ, regardless of their current religion, color, or country. I’m not wanting to control or oppress anyone. Only to lead them to Christ and let the Lord raise them up.

[@jfkbrigade1650]

I just found out about this man. & it happened for a reason in this moment of my life.

[@stuffipost137]

He's a treasure to the church of Christ.

[@Hakeem597]

"Christianity is not ethnic in nature. Christianity is rooted and grounded in the Gospel that calls ALL men everywhere to repent. Christianity does not force men to worship. Christianity recognizes that men are called BY FAITH to worship God!" -Voddie Baucham

[@kevinskinner4986]

"Christianity does not force men to worship." Then he's going to hell for lying, because the only reason you are a world power is because you spent centuries forcing people to worship with a sword pressed against their throats.

[@LindaHarris-q5w]

Christianity can't call anyone to JESUS only GOD ALMIGHTY ! can do that ,Christianity it was meant to identify you as a follower of JESUS CHRIST only , but then they turn it into a religious that you don't have to repent , and you can choose your own idols and believeth. GOD call His children saints and not Christians , that got started by the enemy of JESUS CHRIST .

[@IAmNotAshamedOfTheGospel]

@@LindaHarris-q5w so your saying just sit back! Jesus calls us to preach the cross!

[@allwillberevealed777]

Repent from what? The Law was only given to Israel.

[@kathygallegos2502]

​@@IAmNotAshamedOfTheGospelno you cannot just sit back. You have to share your faith.

[@nammoses7800]

I've learned so much from Voddie. God bless him..

[@Davidferrell1964]

Amen!

[@lukecarrion1694]

You only learned lies

[@nammoses7800]

@@lukecarrion1694 well I guess you came here to learn them as well?

[@bipslone8880]

​@@Davidferrell1964 Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

[@barbarasmith5353]

In Timothy when we are told to pray for all in authority, HE tells us what to pray, "that we all may live Godly and honest lives"

[@heartofalegend]

No argument. I assume you felt the need to punctuate this for a reason. What is it?

[@themotivator2587]

I'm absolutely on board with what is taught in this lesson! God bless you, and thank you for your wisdom and prudence!

[@ldebrobander]

I am a Christian. Not everyone who names the name of Christ is a Christan. And not every church, organization, movement and individual who calls themselves Christian is. This is not a movement of Christ. The greatest hallmark of a Christian is love, as it is defined in 1 Corinthians 13. Another is humility. Christian Nationalism is a political movement veiled in the cloak of Christianity that wreaks of pride and hypocracy. It directly opposes the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. Christian Nationalists appear to be more interested in fueling their own agenda rather than Christ's agenda -- the Great Commission. When Jesus returns, He will then set up His Kingdom on earth. A holy nation. Christ will accomplish this Himself.

[@ccbewell3304]

Please hear what Voddie has to say. He says, Don’t buy into that argument. It’s a power play and part of Critical Race Theory, which is Marxism. White Christian Nationalism is a triple word play he said to advocate for critical race theory.

[@hiberno-germanic]

Spot on. This movement reeks of pride and is self-serving.

[@joshhall1468]

Current active duty marine, fascinating perspective on American military and God. God bless, love your ministry sir

[@denisekremer3611]

Thank you for your service, sir.

[@MommaBear_316]

Sending thoughts and prayers Brother in Christ thank you and God Bless

[@jackmote2781]

Thank you for your service. I was Navy 1990-96, my son served in the USMC until 2017. I cannot imagine being in the service today. God bless you, and may He watch your 6!

[@lukecarrion1694]

You’re a disgrace to the service

[@merg-vh5sx]

Serious question: do you support Palestine? It's 2024 now and military people seem to be going a little funny.

[@sethmatherne7012]

Love the dedication to praying for those in authority over us. May God make us both a hearing and a doing people of faith.

[@bipslone8880]

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

[@USMC-cv5sd]

​@@bipslone8880 Amen

[@josehirizarry6832]

Preach Dr. Baucham, Preach !! May the Lord continue blessings you with His Words.

[@ritakelley7166]

I love it! Thank you for bringing the word of God.

[@Pastor-Brettbyfaith]

Christian Nationalism is the belief that Biblical Christianity should be ruling the (worldly) government. The role of the Christian is to preach, teach, and disciple souls that hear and receive the gospel of Christ. We are not called to collectively rule this world in which we live, but to point people to Jesus and trust in the guidance of his Holy Word. This world must run its course. There is a prophetic time table that will be followed. We do not rule until the millenial kingdom of Christ begins. It stands to reason then that to believe in Christian Nationalism, one must believe in the false doctrines of theonomy and post millenialism. I would call Voddie to remember his message on Gospel Clarity. Stop feeding the church fruit flavored slushies and give us the real fruit/food that satisfies. Just preach the Gospel brother. 2 Tim 4:2

[@DK-nq9wv]

The Democrat Party / Communist are using propaganda to shame a group of Christians and to divide the Christian vote. Same way they have done with every group. Dont fall for their Marxist propaganda.

[@WTG194]

True! But will Voddie ever do that though? I'm beginning to wonder if he somewhere deep within the epicenter of this epidemic in the church.

[@Pastor-Brettbyfaith]

@WTG194 Much prayer my brother.

[@WTG194]

@@Pastor-Brettbyfaith true! for repentance and a change of heart

[@ragnarjenkins4120]

Amen, beautifully said brother

[@CSWRB]

Voddie won’t give one inch when it come to letting secularists define Christianity. Praise God for how He’s working in Voddie’s life!

[@wearbear]

It's christofascist nationalism for gullible idiots

[@HMFOG]

Definitely !!!☦️

[@johnwoodruff1878]

I am a Christian and I am for my nation. I want this country as a whole repent and to turn to the Lord Christ Jesus savoir only.

[@gfujigo]

What does that even mean? If folks want to repent then they can do that now. There is nothing stopping people now from turning to Christ.

[@johnwoodruff1878]

@@gfujigo because there are so many definitions. And I don't believe a lot of them are thought out very well. Like the one that I saw that said Jesus and Trump and they called it Christian nationalism. That is complete nonsense. Number one Trump is not a Christian. Trump along with all our leaders need to be saved. What I understand what personal nationalism is supposed to be, as far as I'm concerned. Turning the nation back toward Christ. Telling all men that they must be, they must repent of their sins and trust wholeheartedly in a person in the work of Christ. The whole nation must turn to Christ. Our nation is a pagan nation, and what we're facing is chaos. It is going to be either chaos or Christ. The word national Christian has been very widely abused and it is meant to be abused now in a way that they mean it, especially white national Christians. Which is truly a communist idea just as much as critical race theory. This nation must be pointed back to Christ. The church has not obeyed the word of God. We too were suffer God's judgment because of that. Judgment begins at the house of God.

[@tobiasgriffin]

I'm not being rude, but the USA Australia new Zealand you are not a ethnicity you all came from everywhere and mix so it funny to me to here american say nationalism and race

[@Psalm144.1]

@@gfujigo It means that he is a Christian and loves his country. Voddie says as much in his book Fault lines.

[@Kingjamesbible161]

@@gfujigo Facts

[@streetsmartswing]

Thank you for shedding light on this subject with boldness.

[@bipslone8880]

I bet you can't define "Woke" .......and demonstrate an example and how it's wrong.

[@applemac100100]

As a citizen of 🇬🇧 who lives on the island of Ireland this is a powerful message. It is God who sets up nations and not men. When a nation has a Christian ethos it is God who has ordained it and not men. It I’ll betides any nation has a Christian ethos for its citizens to attempt to secularise it. The history of the nation of Israel is testament to what happened to them when secularisation and plurality of religion occurred. God punished them with seventy years of captivity. Western nations should learn this lesson well.

[@kingsfan2099]

You're in a cult.

[@VicGeorge2K6]

That's because Israel was SUPPOSED TO BE God's special nation BY DESIGN.

[@manthetower5894]

It was definitely men who set up nations. No evidence of divine intervention or a guiding hand.

[@hughmarcus1]

@@VicGeorge2K6Yes but not modern secular Israel.

[@epifunny1]

God's been good to us!

[@philkim2328]

As usual, Pastor Voddie is an excellent speaker. I really enjoyed this message.

[@bipslone8880]

I bet you can't define "Woke" .......and demonstrate an example and how it's wrong.

[@TimWolfe3760]

I too have been born and raised in America. My grandfather served in world war II. His son my uncle served in Vietnam, so there is a patriotic theme running through our family. I will make this clear I am not an America basher. In 1995 I started to read the bible. At that time I had entered in Fellowship with the Father and His Son. God's spirit was sent from the Father to me. I was Born Again that moment. The bible has washed me clean and renewed my mind, I became a new creation. All things are passed, behold all things became new. At that moment I knew I was on enemy territory, and Satan being the god of this world, is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. Jesus tells me that to watch out for this evil one, and also that I will be hated by ALL Nations for His namesake. This is what has been handed down to me traditionally, not only me but millions here as well. Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are God's building, temple. And to place my hand over my soul and pledge or swear an oath to a peace of material with some red and white stripes and has some stars on it. I had to repent to the Lord and say, My allegiance is to you Jesus, I trust in you that you have gone to prepare a place for me and one day will receive me unto yourself that where you are I will be also. Until he returns for me, he has assigned a task for me to do down here. If I complete this task, I will here those glorious words... "Well done my good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of thy salvation. I am a sojourner just passing through, this world is not my home. I am a Christian residing in a place called America, I am a monarchist, I serve the King of kings, Jesus. I'm not an Republican nor a Democrat. My foundation is the Lord Jesus Christ and His word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. I do not stand on the sinking sand of the Constitution, nor do I place my trust in the Bill of Rights nor the Amendments. Those documents are not written in the Lambs book of life. I will trust in Him alone. I hope and pray that any who read this will truly come to God and reason with Him by His word. God bless you all. I love each and everyone of you !!!

[@juliefincham4636]

Bravo Malachi Well said!!! 😊

[@TimWolfe3760]

Thanks Julie, you know these words I spoke are not my own, no one can speak these words unless God's spirit dwells within him/her. This country is not prepared for what is coming up on her, especially the church goers. God bless and as always... Malachi 3:16-18

[@TheJpep2424]

I am a born again christian and follower of Christ. I vote against parties that celebrate the murder of babies and sexual immorality, gay marriage, transgenderism etc. Which means I vote republican. To say you are neither means you're silent of moral issue and destroy people. I will vote for pro-life candidates and against pro-abortion candidates as a result of my faith.

[@wingedinfinity6715]

@wolfeyism .... Do you pay your taxes ?

[@nitedriver5629]

This is absolutely beautiful!

[@MBP210]

May God continue to bless and protect you brother!

[@bipslone8880]

Jesus was woke and a social justice warrior

[@xavind]

God bless Voddie. He preaches and teaches the Truth of God.

[@lukecarrion1694]

He’s literally a terrible person with objectively horrible beliefs. He’s extremely bigoted

[@manthetower5894]

Truth and God is an oxymoron

[@summertime87]

I always thought that God's kingdom is in Heaven, not in a country

[@skipmars7979]

This is my favorite pastor today. He understands and teaches correct Christian doctrine IMHO. God Bless Him.

[@emf49]

I really appreciate Voddie Baucham. He teaches a lot of truth ‘except’ for his reform views of salvation, God and the nature of original sin. That doctrine contradicts scripture.

[@mytuber81]

Voddie is a national treasure.

[@mrcmusic1]

Wow beautiful statement

[@aubreyleonae4108]

The biggest ..... certainly an idiot

[@lukecarrion1694]

lol no he isn’t

[@dited358]

@@lukecarrion1694 lol yes he is

[@lukecarrion1694]

@@dited358 no he isn’t. He’s a bad person. He’s a professional liar

[@harlanbarnhart4656]

As an Anabaptist, I have a lot in common with bro. Bacham but also truckload of difference. We Anabaptists have been objecting too, speaking back too and fleeing from Christian Nationalism since 1525 so while he can't see it, I can. And I don't think that makes me a Marxist or a Liberal or "woke".

[@ccbewell3304]

I think he’s speaking of a different nationalism. Give me the nations as an inheritance! I want America to be a sheep nation. I want America to be saved. I want it to be one of God’s inheritances!

[@loganholdaway769]

Voddie is very thoughtful here. I call myself a Christian Nationalist because I think we can take ground by embracing the term when rightly defined. We've done this with the term Christian which was originally a derogatory term. Christian Nationalism rightly defined has nothing to do with America specifically. It's about a Christian people seeking God for their nation. From what I can tell, there is a small group of extremists that misrepresent the majority. God will judge them and His truth will prevail.

[@georgeluke6382]

This needs more likes. It's as though we selectively decide which terms the culture is incapable of hearing redefinitions.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

I actually think the small to large groups are the opposite.

[@KARMICHAEL11]

Amen brother; I think of when “Christian” was a pejorative in the first couple centuries AD, and then Gods people said, “well, yeah!” We need to be a people that unitedly believe in Christ’s present authority over all of life again, and should own ill-intended terms again with specific definitional accuracy like brother Voddie has been doing these past few years.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

Could you point me to the timestamp where he gives a definition for CN? I watched the whole thing and I am pretty sure he never did. If he believes Christian Nationalist simply means you want a Christian nation, he is incorrect. But if I missed where he gave a definition, I am open to be pointed to it.

[@billhobson6637]

@@michaelmannucci8585 that was dealt with in the first address. There are many definitions, most by opponents that are using it as a pejorative.

[@user-cg4ll6it8o]

We are to be CHRIST-LIKE first. Then whatever we choose to be distracted by. But JESUS 1st.

[@USMC-cv5sd]

Like porn ? Lol

[@HotWheelsChaplain]

When the identity of anything- the individual, the ethnicity, the government, or the nation- is viewed as superior or more important than the standard of God's revelation, sin is rampant and through that sin under the judgment of God. Salvation through faith in Christ should be the only focus of identity that matters. Are you His sheep listening for His voice or a goat awaiting His judgement?

[@honaybear5286]

Yes I like your comment Thank you Jesus!☝️🙏🏼

[@dennisdrew7470]

Amen brother in Christ

[@paveli1181]

Everything has a place in the right order. We should be critical of government to stay away from religion, ideology and bullying other nations. We should have one political party and can decide competent or incompetent.

[@lynnmcintosh]

Thank you Shepherd’s. We need you.

[@bobbabai]

All of those other things can be easily demonstrated to exist. The god doesn't deserve any recognition or respect if he doesn't show up, ever! And if getting him to show up requires full-force faith to the point where you're certain he's showing up without anyone else being able to see him when he does, then his showing up is useless.

[@johngribbin7574]

Ohh Rah brother Voddie. May the Lord keep you and bless you.

[@altonbrek]

I have been listening to Voddie for more than 10 years and I have learned things from him that I did not think was possible. Blessings to the man. 🙏

[@leonardmcdonald4549]

I love the way he exposes the postmodern philosophical worldview of those who are seeking to distort and/or suppress the truth of America's founding.

[@manthetower5894]

It is under the first amendment. The separation of Church and state. The founding fathers, learned men who were in opposition to tyranny of any kind including those forced upon a population by religious doctrine. The only thing this man of the cloth is spreading is misinformation and furthering the indoctrination of a gullible audience.

[@kimmurphy72]

This needs to be listened to by many Christians!

[@bipslone8880]

America doesn't need a Christian version of Iran. Separation of church and states.

[@bipslone8880]

Jesus was woke and a social justice warrior

[@LordFarkwad-qp1yb]

Modern Christianity is the Apostasy, and Trump is the Antichrist. Christian Nationalism is the Beast System. Repent.

[@mothornton9127]

Nationalism is an ideology that emphasizes loyalty, devotion, or allegiance to a nation or nation-state and holds that such obligations outweigh other individual or group interests.

[@aspirated777]

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America….” Is it wrong for a Christian to pledge allegiance to the country of their citizenship?

[@mothornton9127]

@@aspirated777 no I don’t think so

[@terry4137]

@@mothornton9127no one asked you

[@mothornton9127]

@@terry4137 no one asked for a turd but you showed up anyway

[@belindaharney8997]

@@terry4137not true. The comment was a response to the question posted.

[@aisforamerica2185]

Voddie Baucham: the Antidote to the purgatory of Political Podcasts. His podcast has a hope at the end. His message has a point!

[@theliberatedplanet]

The social construction of Reality - a Treatise in the sociology of knowledge by Berger and Luckmann; thank you for bringing this wisdom and teaching to the people, Dr. Baucham.

[@MrBowser2012]

Voddie is such a blessing. I highly recommend his book Fault Lines!

[@thembamaselane5885]

Listening to David Barton's talks on the history of America gives one perspective that is balanced when navigating these issues and Dr Baucham hear does that in a condensed yet vivid way.

[@danielmark6779]

David Barton is a faux historian even among many Christian scholars who are real historians. He grossly distorts history with claims that couldn't pass the least rigorous scrutiny of scholarship.

[@JrscottyIRL]

Go Dr. Baucham Go !

[@fredderf3152]

I believe in the separation of church and state.

[@angelaevans4362]

You are aware that is not I. The constitution, right? It was in a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Assn. It meant that the govt should not control the church.

[@gershamwehner4344]

And you realize that separation between church and state is a key Baptist distinctive from the 17th century before the USA existed, right?

[@jan-matthisweng4437]

I do, too! But I don't believe in the separation of religion and politics

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

Throw away the CONSTITUTION. Those LAWS comes from THE BIBLE. Secularism has man made laws.

[@djduane07]

Not one Black head in the congregation. Interesting.

[@faridhanov7655]

Is that all that you care about?

[@ccbewell3304]

Such sound reason! Thanks for this very balanced message about a hot topic right now!

[@robinsonelec]

Isn’t it interesting that our country started so religious in the northeast and now it’s more so secular.

[@honaybear5286]

Yes the strategy of satan! Always has to attack and deceive what God/Jesus does. God told Adam and Eve not to eat off of the tree and what did the enemy tell them so if you eat of the tree you would not die, Lies! He always has to infiltrate, and pervert and usurp what God has done. Just like Constantine and the Romans how they infiltrated true Biblical Christianity with paganism! You know the enemy always has to counterfeit what God does!

[@TesterBoy]

Unfortunately it shows how much the country has backslidden!

[@flavioferr]

In Brazil it is happening the same problem. I think that's a global issue. Western world is collapsing with progressism

[@robinsonelec]

@@flavioferr yes, I always say progressive like cancer.

[@flavioferr]

@Larry Robinson maybe De Santis or Trump can stop this madness in 2024. Let's pray for the lord bring back conservatism to west world. Before 60s we had normal people today we have crazy people.

[@shaemousegenx]

Voddie is a TRUTH PILL for this country.

[@applemac100100]

And the western world.

[@roboparks]

He said there was no Truth at the beginning of the video.

[@therainbowtherainbow4820]

Let's listen and learn here. Teach Mr. Voddie Baucham

[@bigpappahemi4263]

I'm a white Christian who believes we need to get back to following the constitution. I'm not sure what that makes me and I'm not sure I care what others want to label me. I have no desire to oppress anyone and I want all people to be saved by Jesus.

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

Amen:)

[@sandraloutsenhizer1558]

Oh I’m disappointed with Voddie this time. Yes, England had a national religion which is why they persecuted the Puritans and they fled here. Then the Puritans and other colonies also established state religions and persecuted other faiths. This is why Jefferson, Washington and others fought for religious freedom and a secular government with no religious test. Washington was especially avocating for the rights to of Muslims. Many documents have been preserved. You can read what they wrote on the subject

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

If we are under SECULAR government, That means our LAWS are from MAN. Read the Constitution. Those LAWS are from THE BIBLE FROM GOD.

[@CBess]

Much appreciated lecture! Soli Deo Gloria

[@mothornton9127]

It’s a shame that he has no problem using word “woke.” When it’s a word us as a term to meaning “that we don’t care about what you black people are going through. Period!

[@HomesteadAppalachia]

Voddie - four deployments in Special Operations w/ US ARMY RANGER and a decade in the modern Army - The US Flag is a Golden Calf, God bless you, sir.

[@sanders194539]

Yes, Yes indeed, and the older generations worshipped that calf in great numbers. Propaganda is a powerful tool, and the spirit of the age always creeps into the chirch. We have to be vigilant against anu attempts to distract the Church from the Cross.

[@denisekremer3611]

Thank you for your service, sir.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

Just say no to foreign wars

[@larryb7047]

Ol' Glory a "golden calf"? Where in this sermon do you equate such a comparison? Every Christian who holds a Biblical Worldview understands that this world is not our home. However, to not understand the BLESSING of being born in this great Republic is tantamount to ungratefulness. Tell me where you're right and where I'm wrong. I too served - 23 years. My US Flag is currently flying upside down & underneath my Christian flag. But I do NOT consider Ol' Glory an idol.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

I’m a combat veteran myself. I had a strong attachment to what the flag represented many decades ago, but no longer. It’s a difficult mind shift, but I must make Christ and His church the center of my allegiance and identity.

[@roxannelain7138]

Nationalism stands apart from globalism and tribalism. And I see nations supported through the Bible. Then the only choice under each of those is Christian or pagan. So, fleshing it out. I am a Christian who belongs to a nation that would like to glorify the true God along with my nations and other godly nations. Let the nations be glad!

[@heartofalegend]

Exactly. This is the most intentionally misrepresented concept, right now, and the church, as Voddie put it, has "fallen for" the straw man. I'm embarrassed at how naive and ignorant the church is, sometimes.

[@manthetower5894]

A most dangerous and poisonous idea.

[@logosnomos3794]

Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords.

[@molitorsk]

Voddie - Thank God for your teachings, a long with John MacArthur's, Steven Lawson's and Jeff Durbin's - the truth of the Gospel taught with expositional study and many hours of pray. Praise God for these dedicated Shepard's 😊

[@aubreyleonae4108]

golffoxtrotyankee 1979

[@brendacarabba2752]

My thoughts are people need to look to the Most High and pray for politicians to lead our country whatever party is in office however we do need to discern who we are voting for

[@wegder]

I have a healthy fear of Christians, I remembered decades ago they used to talk about love you don't hear that much anymore

[@HMFOG]

Listen to the gospel ☦️☺️

[@ccbewell3304]

I’m sorry you feel that way! Love ya!

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

If you live in THE STATES, under the CONSTITUTION, the GOD of THE BIBLE is where those LAWS came from. Do you fear those LAWS?

[@adenjones1802]

I love how this guy literally reads the verses saying that the Lord holds the nations in derision and will dash them to peices and he goes "see this is why we should be christian nationalists

[@ReformingApologetics]

We were commanded to make disciples, not elect them. Our preoccupation with the latter and neglect of the former is in large part what has led to the wheels falling off. When ancient Rome became "Christian" similar things happened.

[@aaronhammons6065]

I don't think I agree with this take. Christ is King of all. We should apply the Word to every area of life. Ignoring the ramifications of Christ as King of the physical realm is a primary cause of the rampant sin throughout our culture.

[@ReformingApologetics]

@@aaronhammons6065 that approach has been tried in the late medieval papacy. Focusing on the Gospel isn't ignoring Christ as King, over all, it's honoring that. Show me where any of the Apostles lobbied for new rulers.

[@aaronhammons6065]

@@ReformingApologetics They refused to bow to Caesar as king, which was an act of treason against the current political authority and was enough to get them killed. The inheritance you enjoy today is the fruit of men who acknowledged Christ as King of heaven and earth, which of course Christ claimed to be His own. Your approach is being applied currently to destroy our inheritance. It is known as secularism, and it has gotten us drag queen story hour and transgenderism.

[@ReformingApologetics]

@@aaronhammons6065 Just where in Scripture do you see the apostles refusing to honor Caesar in civil matters?

[@aaronhammons6065]

@@ReformingApologetics Paul was literally executed for his disobedience, for proclaiming Christ as LORD. Caesar didn't care if someone "accepted Jesus into his heart." Caesar cared about his absolute authority, which Paul and the Christian faith have explicitly denied by proclaiming Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All of the apostles suffered the same fate save John.

[@ericmccarty2369]

I believe Jesus is going to return very soon!

[@robertlong4833]

Who's calling Christian nationalism bad who's calling Christian nationalism bad the Communists

[@Psalm144.1]

“Never forget that the principles of the Protestant Reformation made this country what she is, and let nothing ever tempt you to forsake them.” JC Ryle - 1900 Last publish written words

[@Project1643.]

The Protestant Reformation gave Great Britain the Solemn League and Covenant in 1643. Ryle both rejected and dispised this covenant and therefore forsook Reformation principles.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@Project1643. I don’t know what you’re talking about. He stood up for the 39 Articles and the prayer book. That is the Protestant Reformation in England.

[@Project1643.]

@Psalm144.1 Exactly, he rejected the Solemn League and Covenant, which became the national constitution in 1643, and the Westminster Standards, which replaced the 39 Articles in 1648. One needs to understand history to know who is in the true church and those who are schismatic.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@Project1643. That’s post Reformation about 125 years after. 1648 was illegally instituted. It was null and void after the Restoration. You are surprised that ab Anglican Bishop defends the formularies of the Protestant Reformation. Most of the great hymns like Amazing Grace or Rock of Ages are written by Church of England men. They all defended the Anglican formularies of the Protestant Reformation.

[@Sonya19781]

“Not in the Lord’s house…”. Yes!

[@rrtcad]

I just heard public radio using this pejorative.

[@dblev2019]

Great message! It’s interesting how he speaks about a secular government being a new concept. Six months ago the Chilean people soundly rejected a new constitution which Nature magazine referred to as the first constitution based on Science. As I listened to Brett Weinstein’s Dark Horse podcast he and his wife read through parts of it. Brett Weinstein is an atheist, and I remember how appalled he was, not just by the lack of science, but by the lack of a moral framework. Brett’s moral foundation came from somewhere and it doesn’t appear to be science.

[@MichaelAndrews-uy1gl]

Isn't it defined in our Pledge of Allegiance? "...a nation under God?

[@fredderf3152]

One nation under God….. Muslim believes in God as well.

[@robbberry7457]

Remember him teaching back in Houston area . . . . great man of faith

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

Morality comes from GOD. If it doesn't, then it is man's morality. Every NATION has rules and regulations from a GOD. Which GOD should rule? I'm just asking. I love you Voddie:)

[@robertlong4833]

Let's make it simple it's a devil trying to divide us. That's it

[@franciscouderq1100]

Keep religions away from politics and power. Keep religious faith personal and never to be imposed upon others.

[@peterrizek8774]

I'm sorry, that's not correct, If you keep God away from politics that means satan controls the politics and the power, that's so negative. if you are anti-abortion the question is, Why are you anti-abortion, because that's not moral, simply that's not separate religion from Politics

[@noah.s95]

Atheism and secularism are religions.

[@jan-matthisweng4437]

Impossible, because religion informs ethics and ethics (hopefully) inform politics. Making laws is oftentimes about gathering empirical data, discussing them in a sober and rational manner, trying to implement sound sustainable solutions. But there are also those laws and politics which have to do with right and wrong and when people take out their religious convictions which tell them what IS right and wrong in a goven situation, how are they supposed to decide? Should religious people always and aas a matter of principle abstain from voting and legislating if and when moral issues are on the table?

[@debrademuth]

The Church is the conscience of the nation.

[@Project1643.]

You must repent and believe upon the Lord Jesus for his kingdom is at hand.

[@wanderingthewilderness]

I love this message and greatly appreciated your historical and correct word use by definition. Words matter. With that said, I did disagree with a couple of phrases and ideas at the beginning. 1 Cor 6 teachs us that we are the temple of the Lord, not a building that we gather to on Sundays and so the idea of "out their do this but not here" I would disagree with. We are also commanded in Roman's 13 to give honor where it is due. So if a body if believers want to take a moment to show honor to those in their gathering who have fought for the American idea and to protect or free other nations. I think script supports doing this and the people.a definitely deserving of honor. My self, I'm an Iraq War Vet and I know what I have done for our Nation and for the people of Iraq. I DO NOT EXPECT HONOR thou I have earned it. More men need to work to try and say the same. IMHO. Thank you brother. I greatly appreciate your gifting and communication of truth.

[@christophertaylor9100]

"I think I'm gonna get fired again" I know that feeling.

[@lloydmckay3241]

“As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion" ~ Treaty of Tripoli; initiated under President George Washington, 1796, signed into law by President John Adams, 1797, ratified unanimously by the Senate, 1797, published in full in all 13 states, with no record of complaint or dissent.

[@TheNephilim101]

Nonetheless, Judeo-Christian morals, ethics and/or guidelines were inserted and implemented in one way or the other by the Founding Fathers and those Judeo-Christian morals, ethics and/or guidelines have built this great nation that everyone in the world wants to come to or flee to and has allowed you the freedom and liberties to say, speak or write whatever you want. Try that in a Islamic country or a communist / socialist country. 🤨

[@wbdill]

Voddie says that Christianity doesn't force anyone to worship which is true bit minutes earlier he rattled off several colonies that required a (Christian) religious test to hold public office. Those tests are Christian nationalism (though a slight misnomer because we were only colonies and not a nation).

[@Psalm144.1]

Those rules still continued for a long time. Many states had state religions too.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and PREFER CHRISTIANS for their rulers. National prosperity can neither be obtained nor preserved without the favor of Providence.” ~ John Jay 1816

[@marksisto900]

In the 30s Nationalism was centralism..it took power from provincial government..To be Anti Nationalist was "decentralism": Today there is a movement towards Globalism.. So today, Nationalism is decentralism....I am a decentralist.., yes a Nationalist..

[@Triay314]

My question is , does the majority of Christians or “Christian nationalist” feel the same way Voddie does? I don’t think so

[@kevinwilliams8051]

I am a committed follower of Jesus, THE Christ. I make no apologies for my closely held beliefs and try to live a life pleasing to GOD. I must say in response to this video post. I am utterly disgusted. This man, like so many others, is so cloaked in the verbiage of faith, and so many "believers" online follow and trust him. I, however, to this point have withheld judgement, even after having heard him and others make statements from time to time that I cannot harmonize with the spirit of the gospel. We, specifically in this country, are in such a perilous moment so fraught with confusion and uncertainty. And I have waited for those leaders in the church to push back against these false teachings that are merely rooted in political power instead of Christ-likeness. As I do not know the heart of any man, I cannot and would not accuse anyone of deliberate misleadings, but there is a strong wave of tribalism that has emerged and is being paraded around and explicitly pushed to well-meaning followers of Jesus. "christian" nationalism, at its root, is not christian. It is about political power, dressed up in all of the iconography and voiced in all of the very familiar verbiage of faith. This idea of a god of war, is not of GOD. And certainly, America is not HIS kingdom, as referred to in scripture. Yet, so many are being lulled into this distorted belief, most often by trusted "leaders". How can anyone who follows the Word of GOD see someone carrying a sign saying, "JESUS Saves", while that same person is simultaneously pummeling a police officer, actually believe that any of this is of GOD? How can our leaders explain and make excuses for these clear contradictions? Jesus IS the Prince of peace who denounced violence in the gospels. "christian" nationalism is not about following CHRIST, it is about following power. GOD's word warns that many in the faith will be led away by false prophets. Their allegiance to the CHRIST clearly seems to have been replace by their allegiance to political power, and thus losing our commitment to being peacemakers. This so-called "christian" nationalism is neither patriotic nor Christian. What is this violence? What is this perpetual rage? I'm not blind to all of the secular extremes in this corrupt world. Be NOT like this world. I'm afraid that many of us have allowed ourselves to be lied to and fooled with our eyes wide open, to the point of willfully supporting the most godless individual because he skillfully cloaks himself in just enough of the familiar rhetoric, and our leaders find him to be a useful tool. This will prove to be woefully misguided, as this man has NO allegiance to anything or anyone other than himself, and certainly not the GOD of the bible. But he has opened the door and we have walked through it. I continue to be prayerful that people of true faith will awaken from this worldly power seeking-induced stupor and once again return to actually seeking Christ-likeness. We cannot defeat the ugliness of this world by becoming like it. I am truly sorry, but this is wrong. Blessings.

[@IveSeenItAll-rz4ot]

Absolutely. Truth. Thank you.

[@kwilliams4878]

How have so many people accepted this? Where ARE the faith leaders?

[@kevinwilliams8051]

That's the question. Why was this ever thought to be patriotic? GOD's kingdom is not on this Earth. We are supposed to be in it, but NOT of it.

[@IveSeenItAll-rz4ot]

Politics have been given primacy over and above the pursuit and life of faith it seems.

[@kevinwilliams8051]

I don't want to paint them all with the same brush, I just don't understand the silence around these issues. These teachings lose sight of the biblical principles and make every questionable behavior (rage, and hatred of nonbelievers) somehow acceptable though it truly is not. @@IveSeenItAll-rz4ot

[@glenntubbs7089]

A wise man in Christ.

[@5150cappie]

I think any entity that doesn’t have enough room for every human isn’t a real entity but a human power projection. Live and let live.

[@MBB563]

Im a christian nationalist, love my country, i want my neighbors, my fellow Americans and govt officials to discover and know Jesus Christ, and see the blessings and grace bestowed upon our nation thru Gods word. If that makes me a threat or an enemy of the state. So be it. And if that offends someone, so be it... Glory to Jesus Christ. Greater is He who is in me than He who is in the world.

[@Necroman98]

If Christian nationalism takes over the country then people won't have a choice and they won't truly accept Jesus as their Lord because it was forced on them. They will lie to avoid being beaten and killed but they truly believe. You can't force this, it'll destroy Christianity in America down the line if it is forced by the gun. People will remember it as an ideology that robbed them of their loved ones and forced them to toe the line. People should have a choice how they love and live regardless of what is cause your faith could very well be wrong.

[@jan-matthisweng4437]

@@Necroman98 Well, any political ideology could be wrong. Does that mean that no one should be allowed to implement laws based on a libertarian, liberal, conservative, progressive, centrist, socialist, moderate, green, feminist, or any other view? (Also, I don't know what makes you think CN would beat or kill people to force them to formally convert.)

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

@@jan-matthisweng4437 I would say NO. As soon as you add laws from MAN and not GOD, anything goes:) DEGENERACY

[@jan-matthisweng4437]

@@user-hy1mh8bu2u True, with the caveat that you cannot simply declare e.g. OT law as the legal code of a modern Western country, as there are practical legal demands OT law has no direct tangible solution to, which will lead to rules for implementation, meaning governmental orders and regulations, which are "law" in all but name, thus "adding" to God's Law-word.

[@AkonFenty1992]

I am a Christian Nationalist because I want this country to be a Christian Nation which it is.

[@brian0547]

You want a religious country. You should let Jesus guide you to convert non-Christians. Laws won’t do it

[@jan-matthisweng4437]

@@brian0547 Christian or libertarian or progressive laws are not there to make anyone a Christian or a libertarian or a progressive, but to implement Christian or libertarian or progressive ethics via the political process as common rules of conduct.

[@manthetower5894]

​@@brian0547what a vile and evil thought

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

@@brian0547 Degeneracy would be worse if we didn't have Christian LAWS here in the US. Why do you think secularists want to change LAWS?

[@jamesshoemaker3842]

I wonder how he feels about Dr. Martin Luther King? You should only have to identify as a Christian, and that should tell people enough if you say a christian nationalist that is something else completely. Jesus said not to concern yourselves with matters of the world, and once you declare yourself a christian nationalist you are concerning yourselves with matters of the world and not of the spirit.

[@charliehuman-zp6ie]

Correction - when the Bible says that God has ordained rulers and authorities? In the usa, that would be the voters. The founders put sovereign voters as the ruler. With that in mind, the Christian has a duty to vote wisely and thoughtfully.

[@Av1on1cs]

And the result of all that spiritual insight brings you to vote for Trump! Well done.

[@Kra-ri6fd]

I can't see a way to vote this time. Either I vote for murder of innocent children or I vote for a political idol for those brothers and sisters of mine who have come to idolize America. I refuse to vote and I am a veteran!

[@michaelangelo9119]

What do you think of psalm 72:17 where nations will bless and be blessed by Jesus the Messiah

[@marshallalbritton9521]

Fantastic!

[@kb27787]

While the Gospel Church is indeed to transcend any national or ethnical border lines, the fact however still remains that God still looks upon nations as nations, and that He still judges nations as entities with national judgments. Hence, it is in the interest of every local church to preach the Gospel to its leaders and urge them, in as much as is lawful, to submit and conform their laws to the laws of Christ. Aside from Psalm 2, there is also this: And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech 14:17-20) Rain here denotes Gospel blessing (for literal rain, it is clear elsewhere that God is pleased to send it both on the just and unjust and so cannot be what is referred to here) and the Feast of Tabernacles of course refers to Christ, who is the Word that tabernacled with us. The plague here that is threatened (see Zech 14:12) is the rotting of the flesh, eyes and tongue, and who else could fail to see this judgment even now in action on the societies (including those that in the past had received rain, so to speak, but now have fallen far) whose language is filthy, whose eyes desire to look upon lewd and violent things and who defile their bodies with the most grotesque sexual perversions possible?

[@toddstevens9667]

I don’t think so. I notice that you don’t have any NT scriptures. OT is about the nation of Israel. NT is about Christian Internationalism, not Christian Nationalism. Read the Great Commission. The Gospel isn’t about politics.

[@charliehuman-zp6ie]

Your lens is wrong. In the Old Testament, yes your statement would be true. Christ makes it clear that in the church age, each man is judged individually. Revelation teaches that someday Christ will return, and judge them again as nations. Keep reading your bible

[@kb27787]

@@charliehuman-zp6ie I must say, did you believe the last chapters of Zechariah (which is clearly talking about an age that is neither day nor night and living waters flowing from Jerusalem... quite clearly the church age) is somehow talking about something that is irrelevant to us today? Dispensationalism is indeed quite a plague on the Church.

[@johnheart6890]

Excellent in all ways!

[@bipslone8880]

I bet you can't define "Woke" .......and demonstrate an example and how it's wrong.

[@johnheart6890]

@@bipslone8880 the definition of woke: the extreme dogma of the left, which cannot be questioned, debated, or challenged. I the supposition of this ideology is that the only thing that is meaningful in human existence is identity. All right, now to give an example. Letting grown men who have lived their entire lives as men, and spent their entire athletic lives as men, letting these male athletes suddenly “transition” to women and compete in women’s athletics is wrong. this Wolk, practice of leading male athletes compete as women is unfair, because of the physical differences between men and women. It is also immoral to make a lie, claiming that a man can transition into a woman’s body, and literally become a woman. That wasn’t much of a challenge. Try harder next time.

[@aminparker01]

以前、別のユーザーが英語で非常に深く述べていたように、「ナショナリズムとは、国や国民国家に対する忠誠心、献身、または忠誠を強調し、そのような義務を他の個人やグループの利益よりも重要だと考えるイデオロギーである」。私は実際にこの意見に同意します。

[@robertlong4833]

We can't have you can't have knowledge you can't have knowledge when you're in the Darkness

[@darthbigred22]

It should have been and was...but liberalism from it's inception always held a spark of evil in it.

[@scotthill9648]

Voddie is the Paul of our day … Minus the scourgings 😊

[@WTG194]

Paul worked for establishing the kingdom of God for him Jesus was sovereign, Voddie is more interested in politics and power in the US

[@mrgaksi]

God Consciousness is The Science of Self Realization that we are spirit souls part and parcel of God like drops in the Ocean and sparks in The Fire. It is a non sectarian lifestyle thriugh faith and love in service to God and His Energy of which all living things are a part, by Glorifying His Holy Names and Glories, no matter how we kinow Him.

[@IAmNotAshamedOfTheGospel]

Christianity is rooted in blood! Period! It’s rooted in the resurrection period! The cross!!!!

[@JudgeproperlySon-pw8kb]

Do you mean rooted in the spilling of blood ( usually innocent blood), if so you are correct!

[@shimminykricket5470]

Both "nationalism" and "Christianity" should be viewed with suspicion separately in the US. "Christian nationalism" should *really* be viewed with suspicion.

[@terry4137]

Why? It’s looking after your own country and one who believes in God

[@shimminykricket5470]

@@terry4137 That's not what it's about at all. It's bullshit, really.

[@user-pr7oy3zg5g]

No it's fascism.101

[@JonahPleatherbooth]

​@@terry4137 It is Bowing before the god of this world in the wilderness

[@wbdill]

It's not the "Christian west" where people have liberty but rather the secular west. Ask Gallileo how much liberty he had. Vodde is smart enough to know about the crusades, the Spanish inquisition, etc. When the Christian church and government were intertwined. It is precisely the very secular first amendment which grants it's citizens complete religious liberty.

[@Psalm144.1]

Is the following the equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades? America didn’t start out as a secular nation. The people who wrote the 1st Amendment did not envision a secular nation run amok. They would have hung those doing transgender book readings in the name of God Almighty. They would have hung them proclaiming the Triune God would expect it their Christian duty according to Romans 13.

[@wbdill]

@@Psalm144.1 "America didn't start out as a secular nation" LOL! the US Constitution is the first ever secular constitution! Deriving its powers from the consent of the governed and NOT from some divine right. So yeah, America started out and continues to be a secular nation. The would have done no such thing. To do so is antithetical to the separation of church and state.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@wbdill United States (1892) Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S.457 (1892), involving the application of a federal law forbidding the importation of foreign contract laborers, is notable for Justice David J. Brewer declaring that the United States is a “Christian nation.”

[@Psalm144.1]

Did you listen to the part of Voddie’s speech around 28 minutes in where he talks about whether or not America was set up to be a secular state and provides evidence against that, then says around 33:40, you decide which makes more sense.

[@wbdill]

@@Psalm144.1 yes I did hear that. A state is not a nation. The pre-Constitution states/colonies may have had an official religion (which varied BTW) the moment the First Amendment was ratified that effectively ended any official religion except in name only. The 1A guaranteed citizens the freedom to worship any god(s) they wished or not worship at all. The 1A is antithetical to the first commandment (worship no other gods before me).

[@brendacarabba2752]

I belong to an Eastern Catholic Church politics are never discussed in are divine liturgy its not discussed when we share our meal after church we are at Church to worship Are Lord God and the Holy Trinity

[@Jedimo]

I'm with James Lindsey on the use of this term. Things are hard enough without us willingly stepping into an unnecessary landmine. Just call yourself a Christian patriot or something.

[@interestedmeow]

Until someone can fully engage with the BIBLICAL definition, understanding and implications of the concept of ‘nation’, one should consider any attempt at a Christian Nationalism to be problematic.

[@Zaloomination]

what is the biblical definition? And do you have problems with how nation is described by Voddie here?

[@interestedmeow]

@@Zaloomination yep. He’s appealing to the Oxford dictionary along with just about everyone else talking on the subject these days. The definition and purpose of nations in Scripture is at odds with what these brothers are positing as a bulwark against persecution and decay. The concept of nations, their inception, their place in the minds of the audiences of the prophets and psalmists is so foreign to our secular formulation of the modern nation-state that I’m genuinely surprised some of the wilder types haven’t picked up on the fact that the foundation these men are building on is made of the same rotting material they are trying to replace. I’d suggest you spend some time in Deut 32/Gen 6, 10-11/Psa 82/Acts 2 and then read Unseen Realm. I’ll put it as simply as I can here: the nations are fully ethnic and linguistic constructs in the minds of the authors. Yahweh divided humanity up into them as discipline for Babel, chose Israel for himself and gave the spiritual governance of these nations over to spiritual beings. These beings rebelled and turned these nations to their own worship rather than that of Yahweh. His choosing of one family, through Abraham, was the small beginning of a vast family made of chosen individuals from all the other nations to be his own. History ends with this family completed and resurrected, but only after a bitter war in both heaven and earth where all of humanity and the spiritual enemies throw off the shackles of nation-hood, uniting under one leader once again to crush Yahweh’s regenerate family beneath their boot heel. Yet Yahweh thunders from heaven and casts them all away, consummating a marriage with His Bride and creating a new heavens and new earth to rule over with her for eternity. The intention and purpose from the beginning. There is no room here for a modern nation state that coerces Torah observance from the unbeliever. There is no path toward a persecution-less safe space from which Christians take dominion over the 7 mountains of culture. It will either rot from the inside (as America has done; just like every other Christendom before her) or will be infected by a viral tyranny which quickly makes it twice the oppressor of the Bride as China or the USSR ever was. Focus on the mission of expanding the family by finding the chosen in every ethnic group and stop chasing over-realization of a glorious future hope in the next century. You just might accidentally build the Beast that John clearly saw uniting humanity against the one you call King.

[@Zaloomination]

@@interestedmeow I'm not sure I agree with you, because i don't think an ethnic nation is needed to be a christian nation, (after all heaven will have a mix of people from different nations worshipping the same God) but thank you for explaining your position so thoroughly

[@interestedmeow]

@@Zaloomination indeed. Rev 5:9 is extremely clear about his family being made up of all the nations. That is essential to understanding the clear and tight ties between Babel and Pentecost that Luke makes. All nations will be a part of the kingdom, through the persons of every nation that are saved. What I am arguing is that these brothers are using an unbiblical definition of nation to twist Christ’s commission into permitting, nay commanding, Christians to take dominion over the modern nation state they live in. They believe this to be a pleasing aroma to God and are essentially attempting to realize Christ’s kingdom for him before he returns. They envision an end to all things where Christ is welcomed on a red carpet to the earth because they and their direct bloodline descendants (not spiritual siblings) were successful in eliminating evil through coerced Torah observance in unbelievers. Christ doesn’t care to have his children give him a nation’s load of worthless good deeds done by the power of human will. He desires that every tribe, tongue and ethnicity be represented in his family through a genuine conversion and faith.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@interestedmeow “Coerced Torah observance?” You sure would have hated growing up in America in the 1790s where every state had a state religion, all religions were legal but only Trinitarianism was publicly ok, and there were Christian Sabbath laws against conducting business on Sunday. Eventually when public school opened up in America, Protestant Christianity and the Bible was taught as curriculum. It was taught so much that Catholics began to start their own parochial schools.

[@saulgoo2334]

Christians who seek power, aren’t seeking Christ.

[@user-hy1mh8bu2u]

Christians that allow secularists to grape children are not seeking CHRIST:) Do you not understand that we are at war with secularists?

[@m.scottjohnson4788]

How blessed to have the adulation of Toubob....may your ancestors haunt your dreams

[@zackallen3676]

The only problem is, they steven Miller, Marjorie green, call themselves wcn!

[@wbdill]

The idea of a secular nation is a recent idea. One that started with the US Constitution in 1787.

[@aspirated777]

“… endowed by their Creator…”- Declaration of Independence.

[@wbdill]

@@aspirated777 the Dec. Of Ind. isn't the Constitution.

[@aspirated777]

@wbdill the American Constitution does not exist without the Declaration of Independence and is given legitimacy through it. They are our founding documents, along with the documents of the original states, many of which acknowledge God, such as the Virginia Charter for example.

[@wbdill]

@@aspirated777 That is a bald (and false) assertion. The DoI has zero to do with the nation's laws. The Constitution does not rely on the DoI nor is it "given legitimacy" through it. Whether or not any state "documents" acknowledge God or not is moot to the claim that the US Constitution is the first ever SECULAR Constitution on the planet. It explicitly forbids religious tests for office and forbids Congress from favoring any religion over any other (or non-religion)

[@aspirated777]

@wbdill the Constitution is a procedural document. Procedural documents aren’t inherently religious or secular, they’re just rule books. The facts remain though that the circumstances and documents surrounding the creation of the Constitution were for religious freedom and an acknowledgement of God-given rights. You want it to be secular so bad.