Christians: what is this atheist doing wrong?

[@RighteousBurn]

Every street preacher I've ever met found Jesus after a long battle with addiction. So.....have you tried heroin?

[@JeffreyIsbell]

😀

[@universecreator988]

Oh shit, then I must've also met god after snorting in some powder from my local candy seller

[@casparcubitt1117]

underrated comment this

[@Sajadela]

Yes, as a teenager in church we had so many visiting evangelists tell us their stories of being saved from lives of absolute hell with drugs and porn that it's a fair conclusion one needs to go that way to have a convincing religious experience. It's best to be very close to death, then Jesus will definitely turn up and save you.

[@Kanzu999]

@@Sajadela What do you think about people who experienced Allah saving them when they were close to death?

[@ag-bf3ty]

Have you tried searching for Him in a piece of unevenly cooked toast?

[@justaguy6216]

Or a dog's asshole

[@garymiles484]

Jesus appears more on the bottom of dogs when you lift the tail up.

[@neverlookback6886]

🤣🤣🤣

[@davef6256]

But that isn't how the interlocutor responded.

[@davef6256]

Oops. Sorry. that response was for another comment. My bad.

[@loudamir7390]

Christians be like: you actively looking for him and not getting a response is just one of his many tests

[@emmadye6782]

No stop that’s so true

[@drrockkso8882]

​@@apsoypike1956There are children dying of cancer all over the world who need God and he doesn't appear to them.

[@drrockkso8882]

You're the one who said God appears when you need him. I'm saying for millions and millions of people that claim is untrue.

[@spicedmemes1472]

​@@apsoypike1956in that case you will never need god no matter what happens, why would you need god if no matter what happens you're going to the afterlife

[@Firegen1]

​@Apsoy Pike Then why need him at all? At that point "he" is little more than a comfort blanket. Maybe that's all the concept of theism ever was

[@abseiduk]

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[@trouble820]

In that case I'll have a baked potato and a vanilla frosty.

[@kylethefraggle30]

I'll have a 4 for 4

[@Connection-Lost]

In that case I'll have a vanilla science

[@trouble820]

@@Connection-Lost I think you mean a vanilla scientism.

[@typhoonzebra]

We don't have Wendy's in the UK.

[@erikstephens6370]

Have you tried restarting your computer and logging back in? That sometimes fixes it.

[@PInk77W1]

Nice.

[@surfk9836]

Bravo!

[@royanque8374]

Is this a metaphor?

[@jeremias-serus]

@@royanque8374 are you that dense?

[@fynkozari9271]

He wasted his teenage years looking for God and failed. So sad.

[@Psydefex]

Was waiting for him to say "ive consumed ayahuasca in a peruvian rainforest"

[@evanpferguson]

Lol

[@justsomeguy3565]

Not a bad idea.

[@klaus2913]

Yeah, or consumed some mushrooms. He would understand the phenomenon better. 😂

[@Psydefex]

@@klaus2913 "ive tripped absolute balls with the crustiest of wooks"

[@joshuamatiasrecalde5157]

LOL

[@sebbysanity]

Have you looked under the sofa?

[@jontyhugh1080]

He'd fallen down the side of the pillow cases this whole time smh

[@executeorder6613]

I think he just needs to retrace his steps.

[@lori1760]

Found him!!!!! Thanks for the suggestion

[@jasonports8517]

have you checked your pockets? 9 times out of 10 you left it there and just forgot.

[@donsample1002]

Well, obviously you didn’t visit the right particular church in a particular spot with a particular version of a particular god.

[@MrLightningbob]

Good reference!

[@colinriches1519]

Great minds...

[@nicholasbutler2365]

Nice! Haha

[@bentaylor809]

And if you get that right, he just might...

[@BillyGamerz]

@@bentaylor809 .... take a break from giving babies malaria.

[@ralphpetrie7394]

Have you tried childhood indoctrination from parents and other adults in authority? Works for most religious folks.

[@808Castro]

Cope

[@Pandemomium4Life]

This one’s not that funny

[@justforyoutube3461]

Underrated comment!

[@cros2069]

@@Pandemomium4Life As someone raised with that, I find it very funny thank you very much.

[@theagnosticdeist3373]

@@Pandemomium4Life as someone who was raised with that, I find it very relatable.

[@Jacqueline_Thijsen]

He has actually thought about it. Biggest mistake you can make.

[@PesKneeus91]

Questioning things is a huge mistake!? 😐 Are you for real? I've heard some dumb shit in my time but that's gotta be right up there. Imagine where the human race would be if everyone had your attitude. Shame on you. Your statement is an insult to human intelligence

[@nkululeko_mollo]

😂it doesn't work when you apply logic it😂

[@trouble820]

​@@nkululeko_mollo it does actually. Go ahead and read Plato or Aristotle. Read Augustine or Aquinas. Read Godel and explain how logic works. Where shall wisdom be found?

[@nkululeko_mollo]

@@trouble820 lol. Are you actually implying that Christianity holds up with logic?🤣

[@trouble820]

@@nkululeko_mollo yes 100% lol.....hehe hehe hyuck.

[@BlackSun6393]

As a former atheist, not a damn thing. It's an honest position. When faced with the absurdity of religious doctrine, the only honest position is rejection. With a God whose entire thing is Truth and Honesty, being honest with yourself is the most respectable action. Not to mention, even in the Bible, God says to "seek me with all your heart." Settling for religion is not seeking.

[@doigt6590]

but you say former atheist... so you're into religion again? Or is that a typo

[@BlackSun6393]

@@doigt6590 Religion =/= God Belief is involuntary. It's why I was atheist for a few years and why I am no longer. I make no claims about God. I don't think any of the world's religions have it right. I think science is the most honest and accurate path to the discovery of what "God" is. I believe consciousness is pivotal in understanding what God is and the inquiry of the universe is the inquiry of ourselves and our connection to one another, the Universe, and the totality of God.

[@doigt6590]

@@BlackSun6393 ah ok, you meant atheist in its stricter definition of "not believing in divinity" while I thought you meant it in its broader and more informal meaning of "irreligious atheism".

[@MrCmon113]

@@BlackSun6393 You confuse discovery with using words differently.

[@CheknoEternity]

Trash logic Religion has a sly tendency to insinuate the idea that the universe is designed with 'you' in mind or, even worse, that there is a divine plan into which one fits whether one knows it or not. This kind of modesty is too arrogant for me. It seems highly unlikely that a supernatural being created the entire universe with millions of stars and planets, including one planet with millions of species of living things, then singled out one species for special treatment and eternal life. When I think of a humbling concept, it is not living in the presence of a jealous and vengeful god that feigns the idea of a loving creator. Consider the cosmos. We are all made of collapsed stars; magnificently fortunate heirs of a chance symphony of elements coming together with evolutionary complexity. We are the ultimate story of creation… living things born from the death of an object that has the energy to sustain those same life forms. To give credit to an invisible god over the wondrous celestial reality of our story is to deny a far more beautiful and complex truth. Christians assume atheist believe they come from “nothing” which is definitely not true. The Big Bang (which is high condensed energy) isn’t “nothing”. God is just energy with characteristics; given to by man. Christians believe “God” came from nothing, yet we’re not allowed to come from nothing? If the theist believes a god could exist without a creator, they already accept a creator is not needed for existence. If something so grand as a god doesn’t require a creator, anything under that god or less grand certainly wouldn’t require one. If God is real, then we are nothing more but subjects to a dream and our existence is nothing more than an illusion.

[@DodInTheSky]

"He didn't REALLY want to find god. He's just saying that to strengthen his argument" I can already smell these coming.

[@colinriches1519]

Yeah, and: "He was never a true believer..."

[@cypherpunk12]

When I was a Christian I would have said "you didn't ask God to show himself to you," I'm sure we will see these too. It's a catch 22 question here, if I truly believe in God and ask him then it's pointless because I already believe, but if I don't believe and ask them they will say "God didn't show himself because you didn't believe he would." Swap out God with any other deity and the argument will be the same.

[@bellumthirio139]

Your ability to predict an argument doesn’t invalidate it, not that that is a strong argument anyway

[@JD-wu5pf]

@Bronson It's pointless because if I believe in God, then I'm already convinced he exists. So I don't need to see him. Also, that's fine to say "well maybe God is just beyond our understanding", but realize that it's an instant debate loss and an instant discussion ender. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[@JD-wu5pf]

@Bronson Your analogy is flawed because people don't run around toting nonsense about how aliens want to make contact with everyone and have the capability to do so. If that assertion is made, then trying to contact aliens and getting silence in response is absolutely proof that aliens either can't contact everyone or they choose not to. In God's case, if he can't contact everyone, I question his status as omnipotent. If he chooses not to reveal himself to people (and they end up in Hell because of his hiddenness) then I question his benevolence. If him remaining hidden despite taking measures to find him doesn't condemn someone to hell, then what's the big deal with being an atheist?

[@alexgrimmaster1]

This guy is looking for god in more places then most Christians do xD

[@FIshfood500]

than*

[@benjaminmee3751]

He’s looked everywhere but the one place people find God.

[@ImNotaRussianBot]

Most look at literally zero. Just follow behind their parents to their church.

[@ImNotaRussianBot]

​@@benjaminmee3751 And where is that, oh wise one? His "heart"? The "Holy Spirit"? "Nature"? We atheists know all of your damn answers. Nothing, NOTHING is new about religion. It's just a regurgitation of the same crap every generation. Same thing over and over and over and over again. Same stories, same "profound" knowledge, same damn thing. No growth. No new knowledge (and no, "personal growth" isn't new knowledge).

[@FIshfood500]

God is found deep down within

[@UniversalMysteries343]

"There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking it" -Morpheus

[@outoforbit-]

Indeed.

[@TypingHazard]

Rhetorical, risible trash

[@LouiXtar]

He seek God under his own terms and own personal qualification of what God must be doing for him. Got tired and frustrated with his own failures yet not willing to surrender or not aware of his own doing then call it God's failure. He concluded there is No God. Sad.😢

[@derfliv206]

What qualifications did he mention god must have, Or are you just making assumptions? If you believe there is an all loving God, and that recieving God's love is preferable to not doing so, than you must say that God must reveal himself to anyone who is seeking his love, otherwise he would not be all loving. Since God is omniscient, he must know whatever would be needed to convince someone of his existence, or he would not be all knowing. If all this is true, you can only say that all those who seek God and cannot find him could not be ANY means be convinced of his existence. I think that is a ridiculous idea, and honestly is a failure on God's part.

[@_Jitterbug]

A heroic dose of mushrooms: "Brother, i am waiting."

[@andythomas4998]

Fly agaric, usually white spotted red mushrooms and psilocybin, in *a lot* of old religious art... Also, certain toads, unless the Mandela effect has struck again.

[@TheBushrangianOrder]

Been there. 17g, wasn't anything spiritual about it.

[@richardmetcalfe920]

​@@TheBushrangianOrder what was the experience like?

[@TheBushrangianOrder]

@@richardmetcalfe920 It was a good trip. Solved a lot of internal dilemmas I was facing.

[@Fosu_]

​@@andythomas4998fly agaric contains muscarinic acid, not psilocybin

[@weavehole]

Did you try down the back of the sofa? Or that place where the other socks go?

[@hardboiledfrog]

There never was an other sock.

[@neverlookback6886]

🤣🤣🤣

[@DonceGT]

Or the place 10 mm socket goes

[@Greyz174]

"where was the last place you remember it"

[@a.t.c.3862]

That place 'where socks go ' doesn't exist - there was only ever one sock- not two; the mind plays tricks on you. But people will insist that they saw two socks, that they had them in their imaginary "sock draw", that they actuallly wore a second sock. It's just sad, pathetic really.

[@marshatolbert154]

He’s not doing anything wrong. It’s not up to us as Christians to push our beliefs on anyone. His journey is his own.

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

Actually, it's called evangelism. Jesus supposedly advocated it.

[@marshatolbert154]

@@skyeangelofdeath7363 Jesus said go forth and spread the gospel and make disciples among all nations. He never said anything about forcing people to accept salvation. His parables are replete with examples of both folks who accept his teachings and those who don’t. He spoke of actions and consequences but never of forcing others to bend to his will.

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

@@marshatolbert154 I suppose that if you meant pushing & forcing as the same things, then you're correct.

[@fimbulInvierno]

Or maybe, just maybe, such believe is just wrong.

[@corkhead0]

1 Peter 3:15 says you absolutely should be ready to defend your faith.

[@Anglomachian]

Clearly you’re lying. Because if your experience doesn’t come out to the conclusion I want, I can just dismiss it as a lie.

[@all2jesus]

The fact that a christian could say this same thing about atheism, shows how stupid this argument is: I tried to debunk the existence of God, everywhere, I read everything, NOTHING, I just can't 🤦🏻‍♂️ 👇The comment under this is pretty dumb, because it takes the arguments of the dumbest christians to make it easy for him to debunk, instead of arguing with the arguments of christian philosophers. 👇👇

[@luxeayt6694]

@@all2jesus well, theists claim that if you open your heart god will show himself. Atheists don't claim that non-belief in god will be evident if you open your heart.

[@JohnCamacho]

@@luxeayt6694 Opening your heart to God is like making yourself susceptible to confirmation bias. Why would a good, loving God want you to use that method to find him?

[@all2jesus]

@@luxeayt6694 Ok, but who cares about what low intelligence christians say? Why would you specifically look out for the dumbest arguments of the dumbest people of the opposite side? Because you're not really trying to make a steelman. There are atheists that claim all sorts of dumb stuff.

[@badreddinedjouamaa5555]

@@luxeayt6694 Not thiests, its *Christians* that claim that god will show himself , Muslims don't , God in Islam won't show up in your dreams or in a vision or something , that just one example .

[@user-vy4dt6jg9g]

What happens when you don’t get indoctrinated as a child or addicted to hardcore substances

[@FIshfood500]

You live a fairly mundane boring life, then you die

[@anshumanagrawal346]

@@FIshfood500 As opposed to?

[@FIshfood500]

As opposed to being indoctrinated as a child or getting addicted to hardcore substances

[@xanderduffy6461]

@@FIshfood500 look at the entire school system. Children are there 7 hours a day for 12 years. And what is going on in the school system? That is indoctrination.

[@martinroner5688]

You grow up, having to listen to ridiculous stories being told as fact 🤣

[@CATCHTHERAINB0W_]

Finally, liberal Ben Shapiro

[@magma7155]

athiesm isn't reflective of your political beliefs

[@allipse8224]

Don't compare ben to alex

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

@@magma7155 Technically true, but sadly it's mostly false.

[@magma7155]

@@skyeangelofdeath7363 how so? I've met many many atheists of different political beliefs

[@bethezebra]

😂🔥

[@lmao.3661]

You gotta close your eyes man, blind faith will get you there 🙏

[@user09832]

Blind faith will lead you to abduction and rape

[@trouble820]

Put a little love in your heart...and the world...will be a better place....

[@reneoosthuizen9210]

Blind faith will certainly get you there to finding nothing at the end.

[@delan7980]

A tab of LSD: It's my time to shine

[@zkcrisyee]

Came here to find this comment. As a guy who was a staunch atheist and a scientist most of his life (still a scientist), psychedelics are some strong, strong stuff, which can make you seemingly experience or “understand” what a “spiritual experience” might feel like, in your brain.

[@sirajaxl]

@@zkcrisyee Just curious, since you said you were an atheist most of your life, what do you consider yourself now? Coming to believe in a deity, or even the Christian God, is a perfectly reasonable position. As a scientist, I certainly hope you did not become a fundamentalist Christian. The outright denial of geology, biology, cosmology, linguistics, etc. is an extremely concerning phenomenon. Closing your system in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary has toppled, great civilizations in the past, and we’ve certainly shown a great aptitude for repeating our mistakes. FYI, I teach biology at the University level.

@@sirajaxl as long as we cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that god exists, god does and doesn’t exist. It’s a paradox that only agnostics are willing to accept. He might, he might not. Uncertainty is not something to be fearful of. A lot of things in life are uncertain. (Which makes me think theism has a connection to coping mechanisms. Holding on to something because it would be unbearable without a crutch.) Deciding something is absolutely true or false without absolute certainty is imho stupid. Do whatever makes you feel great, but nah.. Both sides of the coin (atheists and theists alike) are wrong, there’s only the question. And people mistake hallucination for proof.. I ask thee, how is believing either one on the basis of your own sniffed farts not akin to shizophrenia? Aka the inability to differentiate truth from falsehoods to the point of losing touch with reality. (Besides the textbook hallucinations, I said akin not identical lol)

[@sirajaxl]

@ Why would you assume that I was not also agnostic? Mmmm. Perhaps a bit too much Hallucinogenics…

@@sirajaxl where did I make a statement saying I think you are one or the other? Perhaps hallucinogenics indeed.

[@syewilliams2372]

Yeah I’ve heard he’s pretty hard to find, that guy works in mysterious ways lol

[@andrevisser7542]

Actually He will find you but there is one condition.... For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, *to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.* Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. 2 Chronicles 16:9 KJV

[@rickkoelmel3413]

SHE

[@Nvggs]

@@andrevisser7542 actually he will find you but there is one condition.... He wont

[@magma7155]

​@@andrevisser7542 idk why anyone ever thinks quoting the bible is a good way to make people believe in god. They already don't believe the credibility of it so what makes you think reading a verse is gonna change anything?

[@andrevisser7542]

@@magma7155, the original commenter said God is hard to find, I've just quoted the manual that show the way how to find Him. I guess when someone can't figure out that nothing can't create something then the only other way is to follow the manual and find out for yourself....

[@maralynrigby9157]

The way he says "Nothing...Nothing-ing!" Gives me the impression, that he has been heavily influenced by Christopher Hitchens....

[@michaelkindley6988]

Yes, and... Rephrased, O'Connor is saying that he earned a degree in art history, then spent days walking around the Louvre, and yet he saw nothing beautiful.

[@cydrych]

Actually reading the three main Abrahamic texts is what made me an atheist.

[@dimasakbar7668]

Ditto

[@Trentstone121]

That's sad

[@cydrych]

@@Trentstone121 why? Because knowledge is power? Because realizing I’d been lied to for my entire youth and discovering the freedom of the truth was exhilarating? There is nothing sad about it.

[@Trentstone121]

@@cydrych depends on your perspective I guess.

[@cydrych]

@@Checkmate777 I believe that being a moral and decent person is a reward in itself. I don’t need some book written by men to tell me that. Especially not a book written as a means of controlling the uneducated, superstitious people of uncivilized societies. We are civilized and educated now we don’t need a fairytale character to tell us what is right or wrong. You don’t know me but you judged me based on a simple comment because you are afraid that I might be right. The freedom is like when you left your parents and became independent. It’s the freedom of making choices without fear. The Abrahamic religions thrive on fear. It’s why they call themselves “god fearing” people. It’s a sad way to live. And to be honest I don’t trust anyone who is only moral because they are afraid that their sky daddy will punish them instead of being moral because it’s the right way to be. Or someone who believes that no matter what they do they will be “forgiven” if the say their are sorry. I also am not very fond of people who worship a supposedly all knowing/all powerful god that tortures children.

[@incollectio]

"...in the Universe." Christian: "Aha! What about outside the Universe?"

[@sriramanajni3977]

Actually there is another dimension pervading the whole universe so yea god is that dimension

[@vincentlaw1415]

perfectly valid question. What's beyond the universe and how did it came into being and why?

[@unnamedchannelowouwu]

Is that a proof? With that said, have you prooved that God exists?

[@sriramanajni3977]

@@unnamedchannelowouwu yes its possible its called self realisation

[@incollectio]

@@sriramanajni3977 Oh wait, I thought you were joking and being sarcastic. Well then..

[@plyboard9]

I wonder what compels your continued tenacious search?

[@chocdesglacons]

He's been invited on telly once or twice

[@nowonder6086]

It's either 1. Childhood indoctrination and being surrounded by millions of believers or 2. God keeps making people search without also allowing them to find, like they're his toys

[@foodforthought8874]

The only thing I can think of is that we tend to assume how and when God will reveal Himself to us. God in the past has revealed Himself to those who weren’t looking for Him. Why? I don’t know, nor will I pretend to know. Keep searching for God and not religion. Not everyones experience/encounter with God looks the same. God might reveal Himself through a life changing experience that has nothing to do with book knowledge or church worship. I write this to whomever is wondering about God and may read this and benefit from it. If anyone disagrees, I respect your view, I understand completely, so please be kind if you wish to respond 🙏

[@stewiegriffin12341]

“I’m afraid the Jews were right.” - Rowan Atkinson (as Toby, the Devil)

[@skyteus]

Classic! 😂👌

[@monster762]

"I'm afraid it was the Mormons" South Park season 4 episode 9 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJOxn6afhZmFnsk

[@Practicalinvestments]

The whole time I was thinking, we’ll have you actually ever read the Torah? 😂

[@homophilosofikus8215]

That seems to be the problem with all things that do not exist. The more you look for them, the more non existing they seem. The Russians have a good expression: It`s very hard to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if it`s not there

[@nikokapanen82]

But many of us did find God, He clearly revealed Himself to us and changed our whole life fundamentally.

[@homophilosofikus8215]

@@nikokapanen82 Many found one of the hundreds of thousands of gods that have "existed" throughout history. They have all been "seen, found and been met" by someone, I guess that proves they`re all real. Which one did you find?

[@nikokapanen82]

@@homophilosofikus8215 Yes, all gods are real, but not all gods are the Ultimate Creator of everything. If you study all the thousands of gods you will find out pretty fast that almost all of them are created beings, they are part of the creation and only a few, like Allah, Brahman, and the God of Abraham are eternal uncreated Creators of everything, so your journey to find the right God is much easier than you make it seem to be.

[@homophilosofikus8215]

@@nikokapanen82 I see no evidence of a creation or creators

[@stonemaze9925]

@@nikokapanen82 Show evidence.

[@thomasg627]

The only thing this guy did wrong was wasting a huge amount of time on a question that a 13 yr old can answer in a few seconds with just a little bit of simple logic. It's a given fact that only people who get indoctrinated with religion before they reach the age of reason can be religious later in life, while people who do not get in touch with religion before their 13th bday will afterwards be immune to that nonsense.

[@tomasrocha6139]

Citation needed

[@thomasg627]

@@johndoe8655 That's called delusion or loss of reality and doesn't solve anything. These people will discover after a while that they are now on top of their trauma spending a load of time and money on a belief that doesn't give anything back, all the prayers never give them what they pray for because the god they pray to simply doesn't exist. It's a known fact that religious people when they get seriously sick have less chances of recovery than non religious people, because they believe that prayers will get them to recovery and out of that belief they will make less wordly efforts that would help their recovery. These people might for a while find comfort in the idea that they will be compensated for their misery on earth in their afterlife, but sooner or later they realize that that doesn't solve any of their worldly problems, while the promised compensation in the afterlife is nothing but an empty promise for which there is not only no guarantee, by plain logic it cannot exist.

[@TommyTombstone]

​@@tomasrocha6139Snopes says: total bullshit

[@RacingSnails64]

If I had to hazard a guess: he's not humbling himself. He's not admitting he's wrong and sinful and deeply flawed and in need of saving. Has he tried that?

[@-gemberkoekje-5547]

You dont know Alex. He did admid he was wrong. He did that when he admitted he was wrong about his Christianity. And sins? There are little "sins" Christians would claim this man commits. If he only disbeliefs because he wants to sin, maybe he would act more sinfull then he currently does. The only sin I see here, is you judging this person so hardly, this person whom you do not know at all.

[@nowonder6086]

You make Alex's life sound like a little game that God is playing with. As if he's observing this man's whole life, including this speech, withholding information until the right conditions are fulfilled. "Oh, Alex, that's not going to do. Searching for evidence is futile until you degrade and prostrate yourself -- only then will I show you the information you're asking for. Not a second before. I'm waiting,." That's a guess, alright. A real possible guess.

[@mikenash7049]

I've never experienced anything of "God" either, despite being a sincere Christian for over thirty years.

[@Zura_Lanch]

You have to wait until you die and only then you find it out. Or not )) it is a joke, live long and happy.

[@Bi0Dr01d]

God did not say that if you were "sincere" that this is all that is necessary for God to reveal himself. Sincerity is not the issue, *Doing What God Commanded* is the issue. You study the scriptures closely to learn how the supernatural works and how biblical Faith functions, and this is not the same thing as going to a university to study theology. The knowledge MUST become Spirit, because Jesus said *"The flesh profits nothing,"* and Guess what, THE FLESH is able to be sincere, THE FLESH is able to read Bible scriptures and go to universities, but being "intelligent" is only dead knowledge if a person does not receive the spirit BEHIND the words being said. You need to come to an understanding of the spiritual and how the supernatural functions, but saying "I was a sincere Christian for 30 years" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches in principle.

[@Bi0Dr01d]

This is the same problem with Alex O'Connor's/Cosmic Skeptics position. He (his flesh) is searching for (dead) knowledge, not discerning The Spirit behind what he's searching for. He's looking to become more "intelligent" WITHOUT Revelation, and from my experience is, that's not how it works. You guys are *not (fully) listening* to what God is saying... *Listen (closely)...* 1 Corinthians 1:20- 20¶Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world *BY WISDOM knew not God,* it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the *Jews require a sign,* and the *Greeks seek after wisdom:* 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews *a stumblingblock,* and unto the *Greeks foolishness;* 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because *the foolishness of God is wiser than men;* and *the weakness of God is stronger than men.* 26¶For ye see your calling, brethren, how that *not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:* 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: *29That no flesh should glory in his presence.* It is NOT through man's wisdom that you will find God, it is through humility and the crucifying of the flesh. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. Look closely at what the scripture is saying. It is saying that the unbeliever, the atheist, is *UNABLE* to find God, exactly what we see. Not only this, but it's saying the religious person also is UNABLE to find God. This means the scriptures that reference the Jewish religious people along with the Greeks represent both your former position as a Christian and your current position as an atheist. In other words, whether or not you are a former Christian is irrelevant, because holding a religious position does not make anyone anymore knowledgeable of the supernatural than an atheist, and you have held both positions, and the Bible is even saying that *BOTH positions are wrong.* *NEITHER of them understand.* That's because the knowledge of God is not what people are expecting, and it's discovered through Revelation and supernatural practice, not from merely being "smart", because the wisdom of God is greater than men, and as a result, the truth is not with the unbeliever is expecting it to be, and as a result, the unbeliever is not conditioned to be able to receive the answer, ultimately implying that the unbelievers inability to find God is due to an internal issue that will not allow him to see things as they truly are but to only be deceived by surface appearance, because *the flesh* dominates the unbeliever. 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But *the natural man receiveth not* the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: *neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.* Romans 8:5-8 *5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.* 6For to be carnally *[fleshly]* minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind *is enmity against God:* for it is not subject to the law of God, *neither indeed can be.* 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Guys, you're not finding God because the very Nature by which you're being functions and processes thought is through the flesh which is by very it's very nature opposed to God. This means that while you think that you're standing right side up, you're upside down. The way you think according to the flesh *is a stumbling block.* Romans 9: 31-32 31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Notice the use of Faith In this passage is not just referring to "trust", neither is it referring to "blind belief". This use of faith is referring to "Insight" which is the ability to understand the situation and not be deceived by surface appearance. It's the ability to understand the situation for what it truly is, rather than how it merely appears, and this precisely means the person is NOT DECEIVED, and that is the direct opposite of "blind belief". This means true biblical faith is *based on knowledge.* It's based on an awareness or a knowing of something, or an understanding of something. If only people would LISTEN to what God is saying. You guys are NOT LISTENING, even if you used to be a former Christian. Why do you think Jesus keeps saying: "He that has ears to hear, let him hear"? Because *The Bible is written in code.* The ultimate truth is encrypted, and the person truly seeking for God will be able to crack the code in time and decipher the message with revelation, because the truth is reserved for those who will seek after God. "ButI looked here", "I looked there", "I did this", "I did that", "I tried this", "I tried that". The problem is, *you're not listening *to what God is saying. You need to go back to the scriptures and seriously observe them. Need to stay there and read the scripture. After you're done reading the scripture, you need to reflect on what that scripture is trying to say. *Then you need to read the scripture AGAIN.* Then you need to pace the floor reflecting and thinking about that scripture and what it means. You need to really listen... Proverbs 2:1-5 1¶My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2So that thou *INCLINE THINE EAR* unto wisdom, and *apply thine heart to understanding;* 3Yea, if thou *criest after knowledge,* and *liftest up thy voice for understanding;* 4If thou *seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;* 5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, *and find the knowledge of God.* The context is what I'm talking about is not the same thing as what Alex O'Connor is describing. Read what I'm saying and discern the distinction. By the way, as a hint, The Matrix film that you've likely seen before answers this very issue and is part of its core message. You have enough information from this very post to discern the true meaning behind The Matrix film, but to the degree you're listening and taking this to heart is the degree in which you'll find answers. You must make the choice 🔴🔵. It's all true. Christianity has always been true and will always be true, and the message from The Matrix film is also a true message.

[@margaretbarrett6087]

@@Bi0Dr01d “doing what god commanded” , do you mean how he commanded: “Slay man and woman, INFANT and SUCKLING “ 1 Samuel 15:3 “Slay old and young, maids and LITTLE CHILDREN “ Ezekiel 9:4-7 “Kill every male among the LITTLE ONES” umbers 31

[@youknowitstrue3826]

@@Bi0Dr01d What's "biblical" faith? Who compiled and canonized your Bible? According to which authority? Why doesn't the NT line up with the Hebrew Bible? Why doesn't the NT line up internally? Why are you blind to that fact with your magical supernatural insight? Why doesn't Christian theology line up with scripture? Why doesn't your spiritual "muh Bible" Evangeliclownism like up with apostolic, historical Christianity? What's a son? Is Jesus God's son or God #2? Go on and show us that spiritual understanding now.

[@4dragons632]

I'm sure you just weren't trying hard enough, despite the fact that you tried harder than 99% of everyone.

[@davef6256]

But that isn't how the interlocutor responded.

[@Cherem777]

What qualifies as "finding" Him though? How do you define a metric like that

[@4dragons632]

@@Cherem777 that's the problem, its self reported. And to make matters even worse the only people who are allowed to judge if you've tried hard enough are the people who _also_ self report that they succeeded.

[@Cherem777]

@@4dragons632 Yes, maybe. I think it's clear that he found it compelling enough to pursue it to the extent that he did. No one continues that far without a reason I wish I could have a conversation with him and know his waypoints throughout all this

[@leleltea8921]

@@4dragons632 why is self reporting problematic?

[@stephenpappanastos7885]

This is a very nuanced conversation. Anyone that thinks it can be addressed (properly from the critics view) without hours of debate is kidding themselves. They are legitimate questions. The most reductive answer would simply be false expectations of what a relationship with God actually looks like.

[@pattube]

Hm. 🤔 At the same time, I know of people who weren't looking for God, but God found them. In short, they're the resistant non-believer who became a believer. For example: 1. The apostle Paul on the road to Damascus may fit this category. 2. Francis Thompson who penned the poem "The Hound of Heaven" seems to have been another example of the resistant non-believer who became a believer. 3. Likewise C.S. Lewis writes in his autobiography Surprised by Joy: My Adversary waived the point. It sank into utter unimportance. He would not argue about it. He only said, "I am the Lord"; "I am that I am"; "I am". People who are naturally religious find difficulty in understanding the horror of such a revelation. Amiable agnostics will talk cheerfully about "man's search for God". To me, as I then was, they might as well have talked about the mouse's search for the cat...You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. I did not then see what is now the most shining and obvious thing; the Divine humility which will accept a convert even on such terms. The Prodigal Son at least walked home on his own feet. But who can duly adore that Love which will open the high gates to a prodigal who is brought in kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance of escape? The words compelle intrare, compel them to come in, have been so abused by wicked men that we shudder at them; but, properly understood, they plumb the depth of the Divine mercy. The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation. 4. Finally, I myself was in this position before I became a Christian. I didn't need nor want God in my life. Yet I experienced a dramatic religious experience in my conversion - an experience that I had never experienced before nor since. A one-time experience which I absolutely knew was God. That was well over a decade ago. And, though I've tried many times since then to escape God, I am unable to flee from God. In this respect, Simon Peter's words in John 6:68 strike me: "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." That is, even though I often wish to flee God and return to a life without God, I can't. There's no where else for me to flee. I'm hedged in by God.

[@my1stytchannel]

He got a theology degree for us

[@ameisweirdx]

I was thinking about doing that as my degree, studied Aquinas for 6 months, got so irrationally angry at how fucking dumb his arguments are (unmoved mover my ass u moron) and decided i was literally incapable of studying this topic while staying professional and relatively unbiased, bc my pure hate towards Aquinas literally tainted the way i learned philosophy and ethics.

[@Baker.Matthew]

So you don’t have to

[@Dhwbwsoe]

A theology degree does not find or disprove the existence of God. A degree is an expensive piece of paper that prove you completed a long term project with deadlines

[@Bomber_Boi]

A theology degree is as impressive as a degree in Mother Goose😂😂

[@michaellear6904]

Employers are screaming out for theology graduates, god knows why.

[@rezopolis]

"bUt yOu hAvE to fEeL iN yOur hEaRt"

[@Namaka420]

😂😭

[@SyedMuhammadMoaz3634]

Encrypted messages are not always encrypted end to end encryption 🔚

[@Ronkyort0dox]

That's the point. You want find evidence, and he was never open to the possibility.

[@dmonschild3818]

​@@Ronkyort0dox I'm afraid that's your word against his, and logic, as he was indoctrinated as a child.

[@Sednas]

​@@Ronkyort0dox he did look for evidence, and found none. It's insulting to assume that he didn't, he very much did.

[@TrafficConeGD]

He’s read more of the bible than some preachers lol

[@ramborobsnipe]

That’s gotta be so frustrating to talk about all the things God has walked you through in your life and not be experiencing his hand in all of that.

[@joolslorien3936]

It’s too close, too simple, too obvious

[@Peace-gi9lt]

He forgot to look with his heart. He forgot to ask God to reveal Hinself. God is not found through knowledhe, but through the wisdom of faith. He forgot to feel.

[@wolfdwarf]

Are you God or a psychic to know this man's heart and mind so intimately?

[@dodonixx953]

He literally said he prayed.

[@TPRM1]

So you have to have faith in God…in order to have faith in God? Can you see where you went wrong?

[@TommyTombstone]

​@@dodonixx953you can go through the motions all you like, that doesn't mean you're actively participating in good faith. His search for God is tainted by his chosen career.

[@TotalAnalyst2]

​@@TommyTombstoneBut if he succeeded he would be doing it right yet when he fails he is doing wrong sounds like you just want to pick and choose as to what makes your religion legitment

[@matiasbascunan8051]

Did you try putting it in rice?

[@repentantrevenant9776]

I absolutely sympathize with Alex here. This is exactly how I felt: I had investigated Christianity more thoroughly than anyone I knew, and yet came to believe it was untrue. If *I* wasn’t convinced yet, what hope could there be? Strange thing is, I did end up leaving atheism, and coming back to genuine belief in Christianity. It’s like those optical illusions, where you’re looking at it, and it’s clearly a picture of a duck. But then one day you look at the same picture, and boom: it’s a rabbit. And everything you thought was part of a duck is actually part of a rabbit. The whole world is turned on its head. I honestly can’t say what causes this, or how to trigger it. My belief system would say it’s the work of the Holy Spirit (and the old cliche is true: looking back at my journey, I can see God moving all along.) The only thing I can say is that Alex is absolutely going about things the right way. Be open minded. Be skeptical. Ask questions, doubt your beliefs and doubt your doubts. Never stop wholeheartedly pursuing Truth. It could be tomorrow, it could be ten years from now, it could be at the end of your life. But maybe you’ll come across a single book that makes an argument you haven’t heard before, or express an old argument in a way that finally makes sense of it. Or maybe you’ll have an experience that allows you to see the world - to see the same evidence you’ve always been staring at - through a different lens. If someone had given me the response above during my search for God, I would have probably punched them. Nothing seemed more certain than the utter darkness surrounding me - the absence of God, the lack of evidence of God, the contradictory logic entailed in the concept of God. And yet, all of the clichés finally make sense to me: it wasn’t me who found him, but He who went looking for His lost sheep.

[@jadehart2257]

I completely relate to this comment. Yes. He isn’t doing anything wrong. Sometimes we think we understand, but we only understand a very small portion, and we come across something that amazes us and changes everything. It happens.

[@RikiTikiTaviXVX]

I think it’s about being lifted out of our ego cages. We need to be awestruck. Perhaps many times, in many ways. Often having to do with the transcendentals; the beautiful, the good, the true. The sources of real joy. Also realizing that what many of us pursue; hedonistic pleasures, status, material possessions leads us nowhere. Maybe add a bit of despair at that realization. Then the path to the living transcendental ground of being may open up a bit. Perhaps. The problem with a solely rational approach is that it may reinforce the ego cage. The risk is that you remain pridefully in charge, instead of surrendering to something that is bigger than you.

[@jadehart2257]

@@RikiTikiTaviXVX I completely agree… humility is looking at the world like a child. Life can force you to do so. Pride makes us closed off. But if you look at humanity, you can see that we all go from worse to worser when we chase our own desires. But to be connected to the sustainer of life, that is life! Unfortunately, the world itself is not connected to the sustainer of life outside of Christ, and it is very dark.

[@RikiTikiTaviXVX]

@@jadehart2257 Agreed. I might add I think we have good desires as well as bad ones. The good ones - which connects us to the sustainer of life - lead to joy. The bad ones - which I like to call the bright shiny objects - lead us to frustration and in the end addiction. I would also say that the way a person connects to the ground of being isn’t always obvious. It seems to me there are self professed atheists who relate deeply to the living ground of being (without calling it that) and there are self professed Christians - for instance priests who abuse children - who are in reality complete nihilists and have no connection at all.

[@jadehart2257]

@@RikiTikiTaviXVX wow! So true !!!!!!

[@thevoiceofscience6930]

the only way to demonstrate something if it exists or not when we refer to something that doesn't exist, is the absence of evidence for its existence. I was Christian and the reason I stopped believing in God is because I ran by some Muslims who said to me that you are going to hell because you are believing in the wrong God. When I started to lose my faith I kept praying to God to show me a sign or a dream that could lead me to believe in his existence but after many prayers I got nothing. And that proves my point that; THE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS ITSELF THE EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE OF GOD.

[@TheTaoCut]

Hey Alex, I admire your intellectual rigour, and it is clearly something you have been gifted. This gift however can be high-jacked by ego to confirm it's own illusion. All I ask is that you leave thinking (bias confirming ego patterns) aside for 5 minutes, and look at the place you haven't looked at yet, within yourself, within your own consciousness. Within the presence that is yourself, no preconceived expectations, drop into that presence and embrace whatever encounters you, do not analyze it mentally, simply embrace it inside consciousness. If this experience ignites a glimmer of bliss or peace inside of you, follow it and it will provide you with all the answers you need.

[@RoxyyFoxy]

Hi I don’t know u but I’m looking for God, and I js antes to let u know that ur comment helped a lot. It made a lot of sense w the ego thing and looking in the places i haven’t. It even helped me pray. 😊

[@TheTaoCut]

@@RoxyyFoxy 🙏

[@Cguy-bj8uc]

Divine hiddeness is truly the greatest problem I face when trying to believe in God, other arguments such "Immoral God" are not enough of good arguments to convince me that God does not exist. I want to believe in God I truly do, and I envy those who have(or claim) to experience him and his presence. I have prayed every single day of my life,I have rolled among the rain and the muds filled with tears and crying begging him to reveal himself to me, I have read the Bible more times than most people I met. The more I engage in finding him the more the thought that "maybe he does not exist" becomes stronger. Really, the only times I have felt secure in my faith is not when I pray my hardest, not when I praise him the hardest, not during church sermon and not during Bible camp. But when I do not think anymore and just...accept. Funny thing is "just accept" is actually encouraged by my mother and friends. But is it really satisfactory? how does "just accept" really makes us different from other faith that function on the same reason altogether ? The more i think about it the more religion seems like one big fake belief system to comfort the ever answer-wanting and anxious human mind that is simply too scared of not knowing the absolute unknown i.e death Yet, I do want to believe in God, so I will continue my search for him, yet if he does not reveal himself to me during my search for him, then I shall abandon my beliefs

[@TheTaoCut]

@@Cguy-bj8uc hello friend, Thanks for sharing your thoughts about your personal journey and the ups and downs along the way, I really appreciate that you opened up and spoke candidly from experience. I have a few words that may point the way. In order to find god, we need to first drop all preconceived notions of what we think God is or ought to be. Those are nothing but projections of our mind, so how can something holy, total and all encompassing be a product of our thoughts? We already know that is a dead end. We are then left with a "not knowing what God is" and a true agnosticism about existence of such a thing. We conduct our lives as an experiment where each moment has the potential seed of revealing what God is. God only reveals herself when we stop believing that we know what God is, to tell us once again that God is greater than what we can imagine her to be but still, it is within our experience that the veil is lifted for us to be in the presence of her perfume. And then, when God is, nothing else remains outside of it's grace.

[@hostedbysimples5416]

This guy puts the effort in studying and informing himself that few are willing to put. He dedicated his life to reading and studying the works of his opposition, while still being open-minded. This guy is beyond determined to find a answer.

[@Eternaldragon4]

And god either doesn’t care or doesn’t exist…

[@toast99bubbles]

For most atheists, they don't bother doing this because with all the gods claimed to have exist throughout history, it would take forever to go through this process with them all.

[@hardboiledfrog]

@@toast99bubbles yeah, but you can tackle most (if not all) gods at the same time by treating them as a class. They aren't too terribly different from one to the next.

[@toast99bubbles]

@@hardboiledfrog Yeah, but you'll get some fantasists claiming that unless you're actively searching for their imaginary beings in particular, you won't find anything because theirs have to be the only real ones.

[@hardboiledfrog]

@@toast99bubbles you're right about that. I appreciate what cosmicskeptic does, but i could never go that far with it. I have other things in life I'd like to accomplish before I die. i applaud him, but it will never end - there will always be people wanting to believe in things uncritically. At this point I think it's part of human nature. That and selfishness and violence.

[@DeadManDancing42]

Going to great lengths to find god and finding nothing - good job - and real dedication!

[@dylan3456]

Alright I hate the infinite scroll of british houmour on here but this one cracked me up

[@gixelz]

the truth isn't nothing. speaking truth to millions isn't nothing.

[@RG-br9ns]

@@gixelz sharing truths or would it be more realistic to say “lies” sit with this truth for a while, let it sink in

[@mariuscovic4797]

@@RG-br9ns What truth? You just stated your opinion, without proving it.

[@RG-br9ns]

@@mariuscovic4797 the truth is for u to find, submitting yourself to a dogma since birth without questioning isn’t seeking, whatever I tell you, it won’t mean a thing unless u do the work and figure things out urself.

[@FloridaManMatty]

I’m not a Christian myself but I DID grow up surrounded by southern Baptists so I might have an idea… While he certainly did approach his faith with incredible vigor and focus, I couldn’t help notice that he left out the one thing I was always taught made the difference: This young man never stated that accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and asked Him into his heart. According to every practicing Christian I’ve ever spoken to or listened to or read, THAT is the moment one actually becomes a Christian… Can anyone comment on that because now I’m curious.

[@justsomedude77]

See how does one do that? Accepting Christ into your heart is not an action i can physically take willingly or not. You first must convince me of an original sin of which I am being saved. Is what I would say in response.

[@jerrybeaird9292]

The gospel was preached unto us as well as unto this man, but the word preached did not profit him because he didn't mix it with faith.

[@gwenrichard7507]

Me telling my dad that I looked everywhere in the kitchen for the ketchup only for him to walk in and grab it in the fridge door.

[@seangilmore3901]

Except unlike you he called for help in his search and STILL didn't find anything. Willing to bet he did more to "find God" than you did, but he just did so with a critical eye.

[@visionaryhera]

If this is an accurate analogy it means the best Christian theologians can’t point out that god is the proverbial ketchup in the door, when it’s supposedly that obvious. Not a good look.

[@xavis_dad]

​@@visionaryheraI think it looks pretty good

[@warningreligion]

@@xavis_dad Then why are there honest atheists?

[@naferemix]

I meditate. I listen to music and feel transported to other worlds. I connect with nature. I feel emotional when I see a sunrise or a flock of birds. There is so much spirituality in my life and none of it seems designed, or bestowed upon me by an elusive creator.

[@tbirdlewis53]

That doesn’t make sense. You’re just denying at that point

[@lynxk9372]

@@tbirdlewis53 there can be spirituality without a diety who created the world

[@printgymnast368]

​​@@lynxk9372 how did the big bang start.... untill science can explain how and why a infinitely small singularly can expand infinitely creating everything we know than i will say someone or something higher than us caused it. Idk if its the abrahamic god or multiple or if it even is a god but i cant accept that everything we know and the mechanisms that power them is random. Until science can explain what causes gravity, what causes the constant expansion of the universe, how exactly evolution occurred, or what caused the big bang than i have proof of a higher power or powers

[@adamkoxxl]

​@@printgymnast368 logical output of this would be to say that we and you don't know how it came to be, we only have some clues. That doesn't mean anything tho. We just don't know. Why the alternative has to be "a god"?

[@printgymnast368]

@Adam Múdry are you being purposely dense. I never said it had to be God. I said higher power or powers. That could mean literally anything other than random chance. And as I said, until scientists can explain all these things that brought us into existence(specifically the big bang), they can't claim there isn't a higher power behind it. The Bible arguably predicted the big bang theory before anyone had the scientific knowledge to corroborate it. So im not saying the Bible is the end all be all, but when multiple religious texts have multiple examples and predictions that match actual scientific facts, then I will say their probably is something to them. Personally, I don't believe in any one religion. But I think they are different perspectives of the same creator or creators and their goals and morals while also acting as a life guide.

[@pattube]

As a Christian, here's what I might say to Alex: 1. There are reasonable arguments for Christian theism. If you find any of the arguments or the cumulative sum of several arguments more reasonable than arguments to the contrary or to alternative arguments including arguments for atheism, then shouldn't that be sufficient to establish that Christian belief is warranted for you, to borrow from Plantinga? (If you don't find them more reasonable than the alternatives, then either you can keep searching to see if you've missed anything or for more reasonable arguments or your quest can end here.) 2. If it's rational or reasonable to believe Christian theism is true, then would it not be reasonable to commit yourself to the main claims of Christianity? Indeed to the person of Jesus Christ himself? To enter into the Anselmian project of "I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but rather I believe in order that I may understand"? 3. However, it seems you're looking for a religious experience from God or something similar. Perhaps a sign or a miracle or somesuch. However, why expect God (even if he exists) to grant a religious experience or other sign or wonder to anyone and everyone who seeks him? Why isn't a reasonable faith sufficient to come to the conclusion that Christianity is true and to commit yourself to it? "For the Jews ask for signs [evidences?], and the Greeks seek wisdom [reason and rationality?], but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles." (1 Cor 1:22-23)

[@Cguy-bj8uc]

Personally, my take on the verses you metioned that Paul sent to the Conrinthians seems like an invitation to blind faith. If we are neither to expect an evidence, nor are we permitted to seek through wisdom and reason. How much other option do we have left?

[@pattube]

@@Cguy-bj8uc Paul isn't saying we should not "expect an [sic] evidence" nor is he saying we are not "permitted" to seek truth through wisdom or reason. For one thing, such a position would be contrary to other statements Paul makes elsewhere let alone other parts of the biblical text. Rather, Paul is suggesting to those Jews hostile to his message about the resurrection that there have been sufficient evidences given but they keep asking for more, whereas for the more cultured and civilized Greeks (as they were viewed in antiquity) Paul's message about a resurrected savior figure was either nonsensical or even offensive to them. Nevertheless, as Paul continues later, for those Jews and Greeks who do believe, then there is sufficient evidence and sufficient reason to justify their belief. For a philosophical introduction to Christian epistemology, you might be interested in Alvin Plantinga's Knowledge and Christian Belief.

[@pattube]

@@Cguy-bj8uc 1. First, I'm sorry to hear all this! I'll try my best to help if I can. 2. However, let me admit I don't know if I can help simply because I don't know you personally and this is the kind of situation where it would be best if the advice is, in fact, personally tailored. 3. That said, what you've said is exactly the same statement or argument that Alex has made (assuming everything he says is sincere and true). In short, you've repeated what Alex has already said. Both Alex and you are making the same argument to which I've responded above. 4. In your case, one thing I'd recommend is you find a different church. Especially if the church you're attending is your father's church. But even if not, I'd still recommend you find a different church because it doesn't sound like you're getting much out of your current church. I don't know where you live, but I'd highly recommend a Reformed Presbyterian church in your area since they're a denomination that tends to be intellectually oriented as well as biblically sound and open to the sorts of questions entailed in your post (imo). Of course, that really depends on the specific church, and it will vary from locale to locale, but since again I don't know you or where you live, I can only speaking generally. 5. Also, given you've listened to all these Christian apologists and philosophers and so forth, do you have counter-arguments against their arguments for the reasonableness of Christian faith? Do you have any undercutting or rebutting arguments or other defeaters against their arguments? If not, then it would seem it is reasonable or at least it is not unreasonable for you (minimally) to intellectually assent to Christianity. And if so, then your problem isn't intellectual, but something else. 6. When you say you want God to reveal himself to you, what are you expecting God to do? Do you expect a miraculous sign, an unmistakable divine voice, an angelic visitation, a vision, maybe something as simple as an affirming "feeling", something else? In short, what would you like God to do for you in "revealing" himself to you? And just as importantly, is your expectation a reasonable expectation assuming Christianity is true?

[@Cguy-bj8uc]

@@pattube If he does exist, I believe it would be reasonable for him to reveal himself to someone(be it one way or another)who desperately seeks him don't you think so? A burning bush, A great wind,a clear voice literally telling me, all those would do. Another alternative would be through a better clear understanding of the scriptures of course, opening my eyes I guess. To claim a supernatural being to exist, wanting a supernatural irrefutable evidence isn't too demanding I believe

[@pattube]

@@Cguy-bj8uc 1. Again, I'm very sorry to hear all this about you and your friend. I sympathize tremendously with people who are suffering as I've been there myself. It's hard to help since I don't know you personally, but this is the kind of thing a good church can help you with. But if you're at a church where uirje not getting much out of in the first place, and you can't change churches, then I'm not sure what you can do. Surely there are other churches or at least Christian groups on campus? At least in places like the USA and the UK there are. But I don't know where you are or anything else. Presumably your dad could help too if he's a decent pastor or person. 2. That said, I know Christians who have likewise suffered, and indeed suffered even worse things like the death of loved ones or even children, which is arguably the most painful kind of suffering a person can experience (which is impossible to fully appreciate unless you're a parent), yet their commitment to Christianity is stronger than ever. Suffering is often like a sword that cuts right to the heart of a person's core beliefs and values. Suffering exposes a person like nothing else. Suffering really tests what a person holds most dear in their lives, what they care most about, what's most important to them - if anything. Suffering shows a person what, if anything, they've built their lives upon. To be fair, I've also met ex-Christians who have left Christianity after suffering. But again this tells us what this person holds most dear or what they've built their lives upon. 3. The Bible itself is rife with examples of suffering. Such as Job and Ecclesiastes and Judges and so on and so forth. In a sense, the Bible is all about suffering. And in an ultimate sense it answers the problem of suffering by saying God himself came to us in the person of Jesus to identity with us and to suffer alongside us and to rescue us from suffering and death itself. You don't have to believe Christianity is true to see how the Christian story might be compelling or even captivating to many people. For it starts with creation, paradise, then people sin and fall from paradise and become exiles cast out of paradise for their rebellion, all the while accompanied by suffering, then come the promises and prophecies of One to come to make all things right again, and Jesus as the Promised One who fulfills all these promises and prophecies, to resurrection and reconciliation and restoration, and finally paradise is regained and indeed regained better than even before. Again, you don't have to believe any of it is true to see how for many people the Christian story arc is a compelling narrative. And the fact that it is so compelling is, I suspect, partly reflected in the fact that the same or similar story has been retold countless times throughout history in literature - from the Aeneid with Aeneas as the chosen one to rebuild Rome as the new Troy to Luke Skywalker to Harry Potter and even to Paul Atreides in Dune as a failed messianic figure. This kind of redemptive story captivates the imagination of many people. Obviously the main difference is that Christianity purports to be true, not fiction. 4. Regarding the expectations you have for experiencing God. Even in the Bible, most or all the examples you give happened to a handful of select people, not to people in general. Most believers in the Bible didn't have any of these experiences, yet they still believed. And the people in the Bible who did have an experience of God were typically the people God called for some purpose Iike being a prophet. Plus they lived lives of tremendous suffering. So, roughly speaking, it seems if a person is given the kind of divine experience you expect, then they are given tremendous suffering. Not sure if that's worth the trade-off, but perhaps you do think it is worth it. And again, most people in the Bible and in the history of Christianity were never given any such experiences, as best as we know from the record. Most people believed in God on the basis of other reasons, not primarily let alone solely due to divine experiences. And even people who have had experiences don't believe in God primarily due to experiences - at least not the most intellectually sophisticated believers. 5. Of course, the real question is whether the arguments for belief in the Christian God are reasonable or unreasonable or the like. If the arguments are reasonable or at least not unreasonable, then that alone can suffice for an intellectual assent to Christian belief.

[@Paulstrickland01]

I've always found it interesting and deeply ironic how the religious experience activates the same parts of the brain in the same way as it does in drug users.

[@Drunk3nMonk3y72]

He’s pretty good at hide an seek. You might need to look behind a tree.

[@calebwright288]

Underrated comment :)

[@Nvggs]

He moved out of the clouds when people caught on to him reusing that hiding spot

[@DaRoachDoggJrr]

@@Nvggs bro noclipped out of bounds that’s not fair

[@nuclear_wizard]

"Have you found Jesus?" "No, goddammit. Alright, Plan B. Everyone form a line, we'll do a nice big sweep through the neighborhood, see if we can't spot Him!"

[@Drunk3nMonk3y72]

@@nuclear_wizard don’t forget to check the morning toast. Oh and dog butts, they seem to be his favourite places to hang out these days.

[@Kenpachi_White707]

You know what you did wrong? You were honest.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I see nothing "wrong" with his honesty.

[@Kenpachi_White707]

@@johnbrzykcy3076 I don't you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying unlike most Christians he's actually honest.

[@blastphantomgames6369]

You mean unlike most atheists? if he is even honest with himself that is

[@bobopatchnosuke229]

Cringe

[@Kenpachi_White707]

@@bobopatchnosuke229 what is?

[@jakubszwed3859]

I can hear a massive Christopher Hitchens's influence in the way he speaks

[@rossvaneldik3562]

That's because he did all the things he said with the explicit intent to become the next Hitchens. He's lying about 'searching' for God.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

@@rossvaneldik3562You don’t know that. You just want to believe that because it fits your view. You cant demonstrate that and otherwise you’d just be using a no true Scotsman.

[@britblue]

difficult to think of a higher compliment you could pay this young man!!

[@ata5855]

It's really f-ing annoying

[@IAMTHEIC3MAN]

@@rossvaneldik3562He’s literally never said this. You’re just claiming he feels this way because it’s easier to think he’s lying than to think that perhaps one can be utterly devout and still leave the faith.

[@CatholicTruthOfficial]

I'm sorry to hear that. Truly I am. I have experienced God so powerfully, it could not be mistaken. He has also worked miraculously through me and through others. So, we will pray for that for you for that. I'm impressed by all your study though and your seeking. Just because you haven't experienced him, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Mother Theresa didn't experience him for 40 years and still had faith to move mountains. Love is more than feeling, and the existence of God is more than a feeling too. I will pray for you though to experience God in some way. God bless.

[@Cguy-bj8uc]

If we are to put blind faith in God, then truly, we would be nothing but hypocrites when we try to convince others of different faith. What right do we have to convince them of our belief if our reason for the validity of our belief is pretty much the same as them? Tell me, how exactly did you expereince God?

[@grail143]

Have you tried going into the desert and fasting for 40 days? Alternatively, I've heard shrooms will you get you to the same place healthier and faster.

[@silentassassins47]

It's like that guy who went to space and said "I didn't see god anywhere"

[@otakuwolfgamer9029]

which is hilarious 😂😂. Fun metaphor, it's like being color blind compared to the colors we see.

[@Bi0Dr01d]

That's a very good point, silentassassins47.

[@rynaa-nj2vn]

God did seem under the impression that the babylonians could build a tower that woud reach him.... so thinking god might be in space is supported in the bible.

[@otakuwolfgamer9029]

@@rynaa-nj2vn With all due respect.. But That's an extremely superficial simplistic interpretation of the story. That's not how the stories in the bible are supposed to be interpreted. I've never heard of a single biblical interpreter explaining that story the way you did. You can't put ideas into the text,, try to extract the idea intended from the text itself. That's the right way to interpret any ancient documentary. 🤦‍♂️

[@silentassassins47]

Maybe I was misinterpreted. My comment was referring to the hypocrisy of atheists. The quote was of the Russian communists after they visited space. God could not have been in space as He created it. You cannot create matter while being matter yourself... The guy in the video did not seek God to find him, but to prove his existence. Or to put it mildly, to feed his vanity. I read C.S Lewis and have reached a completely opposite conclusion... I read the Bible and believed that Jesus resurrected. We had the same resources and have been led to different conclusions! The difference is in the honesty of the heart and the willingness to put vanity down for the sake of truth.

[@ryleecarlisle7270]

I didn’t find God in ideas. I searched in vain for years. I was given faith by the grace of God only when life proved to me that I couldn’t save myself. In that valley of the shadow of death, I saw God’s essential light in the love others gave to me. His eternal love sustains my being.

[@Truthmatters-]

Jeremiah 29:13 “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”

[@DodInTheSky]

Another one: “you don’t find god with your mind, you find god with your heart” or “your heart is corrupted so god won’t show himself to you”

[@cardboardgundam]

I love the first one because it defeats any argument that belief in God is logical or rational. Goodbye, centuries of Christian "philosophy."

[@szilveszterforgo8776]

@@cardboardgundam And why do you think it's a problem?

[@cardboardgundam]

@@szilveszterforgo8776 I don't, personally, I just find the double standard uncanny.

[@szilveszterforgo8776]

@@cardboardgundam But how's that double standard?

[@awkwardukulele6077]

@@szilveszterforgo8776 because atheists get called irrational by theists. We get told things like “it takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian.” And “atheists are irrational, the proof of god is easily the most logical, reasonable belief.” But when moments like this happen, it shows that that’s a lie. Religion isn’t about reason mainly, it’s about feelings. That may not be bad on its own, but it’s bad when religious people always say atheism is bad for those same reasons. It’s hypocritical.

[@andreasplosky8516]

In my experience, as a 60-year old, it is very hard to find stuff that does not exist. I don't know why.....

[@mailill]

Really? I always stumble across stuff that doesn't exist, but that's me. *Antigonish* Yesterday, upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish, I wish he'd go away... When I came home last night at three The man was waiting there for me But when I looked around the hall I couldn't see him there at all! Go away, go away, don't you come back any more! Go away, go away, and please don't slam the door... (slam!) Last night I saw upon the stair A little man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today Oh, how I wish he'd go away... (by Hughes Mearns)

[@Where_is_Waldo]

When I was a child, I was told there was a god and made to feel guilty for not knowing how I would know there is a god. When I was a teenager, I sought to find god and tried to believe. I even tried to convince myself that I already did believe while, deep down, I knew I did not. As a young adult, I realized that there was no reason to pretend. I realized that if a god would punish me by sending me to hell or withholding heaven from me because I only hope there is a god but don't believe it then that god isn't even as kind, loving and forgiving as I am and isn't worth worshipping... although my concept of god was already out of line with western religion, I mean I never believed that a true god would tell us that if a man sexually violates your daughter then you should force him to buy her as his wife since he has reduced her sale value to other men.

[@chuckgaydos5387]

It's obvious what he's doing wrong. He's thinking instead of believing.

[@joolslorien3936]

Thinking instead of experiencing. Trying to know instead of being in the mystery.

[@midnight3630]

Christians: yOu WeReN’t DoInG iT rIgHt.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

Translation: You didn't suspend your skepticism and let someone else just tell you what is "true".

[@marian-gabriel9518]

​@@Where_is_Waldo I always wondered about this...how would that work?!? Would I become stupid for a brief moment then come back to my normal self?!? And if so, why would I still believe the nonsense from the being stupid period?!? A personal DarkAge...

[@kaibabun]

@@marian-gabriel9518 Where I'm at is as follows: There's an ever-present temptation to attribute things to something, like how you could probably make up a justification for something you don't really know about. If such an attribution seems harmless or appealing, (whether it comes from within or from somebody else,) it can become "your truth." If your assumptions/beliefs aren't challenged, it can color how you see things in the future (sort of like getting attached to an opinion and not wanting to change.) Just like how "if you look for a problem you will find one," if you look for meaning you will find it. You can begin to attribute good and bad things (even retroactively) based on your beliefs instead of fact or likelihood. A messy example of this aside from religion or racism might be the Rittenhouse case. I think it went on for over a year, and it seemed to be the single most divisive topic of all time within my own family. Some of us wanted him exonerated, some of us wanted him dead. Facts when disproved were abandoned for values and feeling, facts when inconvenient were looked upon as forgery and deceit. I don't know the kid or care about him on a personal level, but the absolute filth of that dialogue makes his case a sore subject.

[@marian-gabriel9518]

@@kaibabun Hey thanks for the comment. I haven't followed that case (I'm assuming it's from the US :? while I'm not from there) but heard about it in passing and I'm now curious - thanks - :P ...My comment was meant to be a bit sarcastic/ironic but yeah, on the rest of your comment, I agree with you and it's something that bothers me deeply of others and sometimes of myself even when trying to be extra careful in treating various ideas, however I can only push myself to do better and not others, as I can't tell people how to live or how to think, I can merely suggest it. Even though it gets me worked up inside...most of the time I manage to remember that some people just don't have the ability (however you want to define it) or interest, to follow along with a more complex idea or situation; or it's context dependent and they're not really invested much into that at that time...or as you say, are just comfortable taking the first answer they can get...or don't have the intellectual potential to follow it themselves etc. and so I don't mind the people that try but just don't have the "wetware" potential to follow something because that is not their fault...most of it is genetics and upbringing context...but I do mind when it's an important topic (such as your example) and the person is not lacking in "wetware" but simply lazy, or naïve - which is also a form of laziness for such people, in my book - or simply to comfortable in his/her bubble to even give such a thing a second thought...For example I can't stand lying flat-earthers...and though it's hard to judge who is simply lacking in intelligence/ potential and who is simply deceitful, it still angers me to no avail to entertain such topic...(with the caveat that I am way more patient and willing to engage with ones that are genuinely curious to understand a topic and can change their minds when offered enough evidence, or at least consider it)

[@grantm6514]

Christians: Believe first, then you'll see evidence everywhere you look. 😂

[@jorgemexicanlastname7062]

"Modern man can't see God because he doesn't look low enough." -Carl Jung I assume that's why a lot of people who struggle with addiction get past it and become born again Christians.

[@g07denslicer]

Can you explain that quote?

[@jorgemexicanlastname7062]

@@g07denslicer I interpreted it as, people are too busy searching for miracles and ground breaking revelations to prove God exists rather than looking for him in everyday mundane life or within themselves. I think that when people are struggling with addiction they get to the point where they are humbled enough to, metaphorically speaking, get on their hands and knees and look for God.

[@RNCM_Philosophy]

Here's the actual quote: "There is a fine old story about a student who came to a rabbi and said, “In the olden days there were men who saw the face of God. Why don't they any more? The rabbi replied, “Because nowadays no one can stoop so low.” One must stoop a little in order to fetch water from the stream." (Memories, Dreams, Reflections)

[@drjnygaming8059]

@@jorgemexicanlastname7062 Amen brother. What you said here is incredible and is exactly right. Pride is the enemy of man. It takes humility and trust and a willingness to make the leap of faith that allows one to finally see God. This was my experience as well and I will be eternally grateful for the pain that led me to Christ Himself and joy everlasting. How far must God push you in order for you to submit to His will and ask for forgiveness and make Jesus Lord of your life? Not everyone gets the opportunity that Jacob did and that story is a lesson for those who understand it.

[@angru_arches]

@Nihilistic Atheist "The atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman".....

[@oryx3215]

Christian here. Blessed is the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:3). Of course, motive when trying to find God is important. When an atheist says they did all these things and did not find God I question, was their intention to find God or was it to prove his silence? Its has as much integrity as a Christian who says they did get an answer from God. I could say that God has responded to my questions, but it wouldn't mean much to a skeptic. If you dont want to believe in God that is fine, but at the very least it can be a good set of rules to live your life by. May the Lord bless you all.

[@jakkuwolfinsomnia8058]

Swearing absolute loyalty to an entity you cannot prove or disprove would be the epitome of insanity in most other contexts. But with God, it’s not considered so. To question is to consider just as to believe is to conceive

[@MuthaTucka]

"You are not trying hard enough!"

[@Thomas-fj8ol]

no sky wizard,try joining the 21st century and step out of the 1st

[@craigpoer]

OK, so an ape would know what a God would look like.

[@mattreigada3745]

@@craigpoer If there were an powerful God that cared that the ape recognized it, then it would necessarily have the power to be recognized.

[@craigpoer]

@@mattreigada3745 I guess I am having a problem figuring out where consciousness comes from. Why do we think and why so many people think it is God given.

[@mattreigada3745]

@@craigpoer in a world without gods, it would be perfectly within expectation that people would invent them. After all, there are enough gods in antiquity that *some* have to be made up. In a world with a God, there definitely exists a powerful being that if it wanted to be worshiped it would be well within the being's power to demonstrate its existence. The better question seems to me to be that if there is a God, then why are there so many who are *not* convinced their conscious experience is "God given" and that even among those who do claim it is so, there is not a consensus on the nature of this "God?" The most reasonable answers are that "God" is either disinterested in worship, non-existence, or not all powerful (incapable of demonstrating its existence unambiguously).

[@jeffgillson]

If you look everywhere trying to not find something, you may not find it.

[@dinohall2595]

That's not how philosophy works and not a practice which would earn a theology degree.

[@xavis_dad]

^ | Exactly, also theology degrees are useless when you are trying to disprove the entire discipline.

[@zaidal-hindawi1784]

That makes no sense because he is keeping an open mind, looking everywhere to find something and not finding it.

[@ArthurAyotte-mh5zg]

He cannot prove that he was not resisting, but nor can we prove that he was, therefore all I can say, is keep looking, and I will be praying, but now that you have made your identity the man who disagrees with the possibility of God it is more difficult for you to find him. May we all find CHRIST❤

[@CosmicBright]

I don't have a response to the question but all Imma say is I've been born and raised as a devout Christian and I still am and MAN YOU MIGHT BE A BETTER CHRISTIAN THAN I AM WHAT THE HECK

[@aman8086]

Do you feel like you’ve experienced something that proves his existence to you

[@The_First_Sean]

Do you admit that you’ve been indoctrinated from a young age?

[@jamesp2595]

@@The_First_Sean Everyone's beliefs are influenced at a young age by their parents/community. Everyone at some point is too young to critically evaluate a set of beliefs. So in a sense everyone is indoctrinated into some world view. That being said, I've had my beliefs challenged as I have gotten older and that has caused me to reevaluate my own beliefs and now I can safely say my faith is something that is my own, that I have thought critically about and considered and not simply blindly accepted.

[@jamesp2595]

@@aman8086 Yes, I have

[@berwynsigns4115]

​@@jamesp2595Okay, what was your experience that proved his existence?

[@shawnprpr]

Have you tried the corner of first and amistad?

[@xavis_dad]

Lol

[@sayten7471]

Oh is that where you can score the good shit?! I'll get a taxi, five minutes...! 🤤💉💉💉🥴👍❤️❗

[@HereTakeAFlower]

I found him hiding under a leaf in the street. Say what you want, but he's damn good at hiding.

[@shambhav9534]

Ahhh... where was from? I don't remember.

[@kaliban4758]

And has been doing so for 2000 years

[@johnscaramis2515]

@@kaliban4758 Under the same leaf? Tough leaf. Maybe a leaf provided by Lisa the rainbow giraffe? 😁

[@Proj.A.Z]

I appreciate his efforts. Sadly like choosing to become a scientist or businessman or plumber or a gardener… Sadly, the results coming coming from any of these paths of inquiry and praxis…. the work and the credentials don’t necessarily make one a credible example of either… it’s in being able to make a living from the work and the credential… same thing goes with being a Deist or Atheist.

[@sandicmxr]

He's never actually looked for God. Hes only looked for proof. Its called faith. That he's here is a testament to Gods existince. Look in your heart and see the miracles around you.

[@Wearephuct-O]

God was my co-pilot but we crashed into a magic mushroom and I ate him.

[@sadprivatepyle7536]

There's actually a theory that god is a mushroom and it makes a decent amount of sense

[@shelina.maddrey7566]

@@sadprivatepyle7536 STOP listening to Joe Rogan

[@michaelthornes]

@@sadprivatepyle7536 what you just said there makes no sense

[@nxbxxha_1764]

Then, how did he FUCKING create you??? I think you should think first before trying to talk shit.

[@Kanzu999]

@@sadprivatepyle7536 I'm intrigued to hear why you think it makes sense.

[@osc3892]

"He just wants to sin" will be the argument that takes him down forever

[@Shadow__X]

"god wanted him to think that"

[@Greyz174]

romans 1 never fails

[@zander2190]

@@Shadow__X But at the same time- god doesn’t control free will. Because those don’t overlap.

[@margaretbarrett6087]

What’s wrong with wanting to measure the line opposite the angle and divide it by the hypotenuse?

[@Henoik]

Christians say that God is synonymous with love, and we all know that love only comes when you stop looking

[@Trentstone121]

Nothing can make a blind man see if he refuses to see for himself. God is everywhere and is in everything. If you can't see him, it's either because you aren't looking for him, or you don't want to see him. If you're serious about seeking God, I'd be happy to show him to you. Nothing is easier. But know this, a closed heart can only be opened by God himself. If you search to prove God doesn't exist, God will remain hidden from you, but if you go out with a searching heart, God will make himself known to you.

[@GRAHFMETAL]

I've been an atheist my entire 41 year life and I have put in maybe 1% the effort Alex has in finding a God(s), cause quite frankly, I dont give a shit just like how the Christian doesn't give a shit about the Hindu Gods or how the Hindu doesn't give a shit about the Shinto Gods, etc. I just take it one step further and consider it all silly nonsense

[@stuartcarter4139]

Well, for me, I noticed that all the people across world religions who wrote about mysticism describe similar experiences. Until I experience something similar, I’m going to reserve judgement on saying it’s ALL bullshit… but most of it? Yeah.

[@benjamindover5676]

I don't need to read a book about the bible,, I've read the bible. All of it. And there is ZERO chance that the bloodthirsty nonsense in the bible is the word of a true God.

[@Kwin9]

@@N0Xa880iUL spoiler, he dies in the end.

[@Hikaeme-od3zq]

Well maybe it is the word of a God, an evil one at that though lol.

[@Samuelwastaken]

@@Hikaeme-od3zq Nah, you would think a God of any kind, evil or otherwise, could put a coherent book together, instead we have the supposed perfect word of god full of nonsense, self-contradictions and problematic ethics

[@colinriches1519]

Amen.

[@hahaha9540]

@Bronson what was the need of force and violence though? God, with all his infinite powers, could’ve manipulated them to think differently, instil empathy & love in their minds. Oh, it will interfere with the free will of humans! The all-loving and merciful god will do anything to preserve humans free-will, even if it cost millions of innocent lives. No wonder H!tler managed to do what he did.

[@olanmaogbuehi4091]

I am just wondering what he was expecting to happen. What experience was he hoping to get. He sounds like someone analysing a classic painting in an art gallery by taking samples of the paint and analysing them in a spectrometer and trying to discover beauty by this process. Or someone analysing a symphony by by checking how counting the number of rests in the score or measuring the length barres when totalled.

[@DH-rs6cq]

Have you tried hardship? Losing everything? Being in a foxhole or nearly losing life? Being at the end of your rope? In our darkest moments when you call out to God something happens then. Hard to explain. Finding that feeling is difficult when you're just trying to study your way to God's presence bc you haven't opened your heart, you're waiting for the guy to show up in front of you and prove his existence.

[@mayganphynix8267]

"his heart is closed to god. you have to have faith." is what any Christian would say to this. 🙄

[@carllennen3520]

I'm a Christian, and I wouldn't say this. I would say, you can't find God, in the words of others. Anyone can "study" anything. It doesn't mean you will understand it. This man's entire diatribe is immature, disingenuous, nothing. "I read books. I didn't see God". He isn't saying anything. Just galloping through a list of authors, and classes. Most physicists have read all the giants of physics. They still can't define Gravity. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Of course not.

[@mayganphynix8267]

@@carllennen3520 surely you can understand that he was looking through all that literature, because He wanted to convince himself that god existed. you cannot feel moved, or inspired by, something that you don't believe in. He was searching through all of those works, those SEVERAL dozens of books etc, because he WANTED to believe. why else would he waste his time?

[@carllennen3520]

@@mayganphynix8267 he wasn't "trying to convince himself that God existed". You don't need to read any book, let alone the Bible, to convince yourself of that. That's why I said he is disingenuous, and dishonest. You can not "intellectualize" God. Anyone with more than 2 working brain cells knows this. He wants to posit himself as "intelligent", so he obviously knows this himself. To make the claim that "I couldn't find God, even after reading all these books", is not only ludicrous, it's ridiculous. The Atheist grift is in vogue. These people give these idiotic speeches to those who don't actually think. Matt Dillehunty made himself very wealthy, picking at the low hanging fruit. There is an army of people nipping at his heals to recreat his magic. God is not an "intellectual" concept, and he knows that. Don't just listen to him, and say, "huh, makes sense". Actually think about what he's saying. When you do so, you will realize, he isn't actually saying anything. The Gravity example I made earlier is apropos. Just because you don't "believe" in it, doesn't mean you aren't experiencing it every single moment of your existence. Just because you can't define it, doesn't mean it isn't there. There is no depth to anything that came out of his mouth. It's surface level nonsense.

[@doctorscientist3991]

@@mayganphynix8267 His entire presupposition was one of empiricism and skepticism. This meant he wanted to find god under his own parameters. Basically, he was looking for love in real life in a novel, debating with happy couples and listening to love songs. Not exactly how you form a relationship.

[@mayganphynix8267]

@@doctorscientist3991 If I where to tell you that there is an ancient book proving the existence of unicorns, I'm sure you'd be skeptical too. wouldn't you? you can't help but be skeptical. god should be able to understand that, since he doesnt give us proof. if hes able to understand that, then why wouldn't he give him a revelation of some kind?

[@nealmac187]

Bro is currently looking for Big-Foot.

[@mattyspaghetti449]

He found it. Turns out it's your mom.

[@starshield7]

What this atheist is doing wrong is: Putting in a greater investment in philosophy than in physics, physics/ physicality is the only way for truth/ facts to exist; physical cause and effect physically demonstrates that every instance of an effect has to be physically built and sustained by a physical cause that is GREATER than that effect because that is what is required for a cause to have the physical capacity to make and sustain an effect. Humans and the universe are physical effects of a cause that physically made and sustains them. Philosophy does not address all physics for what they physically are.

[@Trombi01]

@@starshield7 What you say is reasonable enough, but I do not see how you can draw from that anything of religious importance. 1) Humans and the universe are physical effects that have multiple causes and are sustained by multiple things, such as the 4 fundemental forces of nature. 2) these causes by your logic also require their own causes, which will lead to either infinite regression or special pleading. 3) There is no requirement of these causes to be sentient or to come from a sentient source in anyway, so this really cannot be connected to a god or anything like that. 4) Out of all hecking people one would think a physicist would know better than to put religious paint on phenomena. After all of the sun, lightning, ocean, volcano gods out there, one would think we should not attribute divinity to things you do not fully understand.

[@starshield7]

@@Trombi01 You missed a number of vital effects: the synergy between effects formed into a coherent interconnected system; the aspects of the universe and people are interconnected as an effect, the forces of synergy of the interconnected aspect of them is made and SUSTAINED by a cause, on a physical level, this blatantly means that the physical cause of the universe and people has to be one entity that has all of the abilities of the universe and people, plus more, to have the physical capacity to make and sustain them as an interconnected effect.

[@Trombi01]

@@starshield7 "synergy between effects formed into a coherent intereconnected system" sounds like emergent behaviour and properties arising, not derived from something with those properties. It is pretty mundane observation that something can create something else, while not having the properties it created. What do you mean by sustained? If we look at newtons first law, things seems to sustain their trajectory. Are you claiming there is some effect actively keeping the object at rest or at it's straight trajectory. How could this be tested? Through what mechanism could you detect this external sustainment? And by your logic, something would need to also cause and sustain this cause. hence the infinite regression or special pleading. Also "abilities of the universe and people" seems extremely vague and poorly defined. From what scientific article did you rip this out of? Does it include ability to be non-living matter? Does it include ability to go through a nuclear fusion? Does it include the abilities of AI? Does it include the abilites of a bicycle? I would be curious where are you getting this stuff from, as this does not sound like rigorously testable science.

[@paulray5647]

Your acquired knowledge is great. But, I've found the most important part is really the heart. I was an agnostic most of my life. Very skeptical. I studied and over the years, more made sense. Made sense to the point that I became a believer. However, even as a believer I study and study with the knowledge that Gid doesn't just want me to know He exists and be able to give arguments in defense of that existence. He wants a relationship with me, and that is by far the hardest thing to do. It's a lifelong endeavor. I try to remember that my wife doesn't just want me to know she exists, she wants closeness and my love. Sane with God

[@united_europe]

So there is no evidence whatsoever that god actually exists, yet you still decided to devote your entire life to him. I don't mean to insult you, but I just think this is a healthy way to go about it. I could tell you about batman and the many great things he did, but you wouldn't just believe he was real, would you?

[@paulray5647]

@handsomhans343 There is actually quite a bit of evidence for the existence of a God. Your assertion that there is not is only an admission that there are arguments that you have not considered or been exposed to. Which is fine. Comprehensive knowledge of the nature of a creator is not easy to come by, in fact, it's quite impossible. I consider a relationship with God and an understanding of Him to be something that will never be a finished process, partially because of our finite nature and limitations in perception we have as humans. There are many sources for arguments for the existence of a God, and all I can do is encourage continued exploration if you are interested. With that exploration, I also encourage an attitude of skepticism, but not cynicism. Good luck.

[@rabca.123]

I wish God existed, but I can't accept inconsistencies. Discovering mathematics is also a never ending process and understanding entirety of it is beyond our human capabilities. Yet the fact that it's true is self-evident. No reason to doubt it. Why isn't God self-evident? And why there are so many rationales that he was made up, because he was necessary? Why everybody believes in a different God? Why won't he speak to all of us at the same time once a year so we would know he exists? Why is he hiding? Why he just spoke to a few Jews few thousand years ago?

[@kristopherking2671]

And with all his extensive research, he still can't explain why my aspirations and desires are less than his, without acknowledging a higher moral authority. Matbe one day he'll discover that truth

[@caps_lock_]

I always find it funny when Christians these days are like "god speaks to you in whispers and prompts of the heart" bitch Moses got a talking bush on fire!

[@TheJazzypenn]

“God resist the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” If an experience is all you’re looking for, it probably won’t happen. The Gospel isn’t to those who wish for something to happen the gospel is a cure for the sick, and those who recognize their need for a cure.

[@agape777]

Amen. So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. Romans 9:18

[@juleouscamper5256]

Exactly, opioid for the masses and the reason he will never find anything because he is not emotional and therefore not sick.

[@agape777]

@@juleouscamper5256 But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these! Basically animals with NO EMOTION. Compassion and cooperation is what distinguishes us from animals. We have a certain wiring by God that allows us to feel others pain - if you see that skater come off the rail and mangle his shin you feel it for a reason! Workout God you are an animal - good luck with that which is in opposition to what makes you human.

[@juleouscamper5256]

@Agape Life has always had all those things you mention in your first paragraph because all life forms are selfish and in competition. It seems to me that religion and ideologies are adopted by emotional humans, maybe as a coping mechanism, but also as a manifestation of the merger between emotion and thinking. I see religion as a hierarchical system; they are all throughout the animal kingdom, and we are animal's. Don't get me wrong, I go to church every Saturday, but no religion, spirituality, or idiology will Trump my Objective analysis of the world.

[@zaidal-hindawi1784]

He’s not looking for “an experience”, he’s just looking for God.

[@celestialfavors1]

Well… the truth be told… he is doing, speaking, realizing and sharing the most important part of practicing any religion or belief. ITS CALLED FREE WILL. IT IS ALSO CALLED RECONCILING WITH ONES SELF. YOU ARE NEVER HELD TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYONE OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOURSELF.

[@stayathomemess]

It is perfectly normal for a person who is not spiritual to not understand religion and to find it foolish. As a Christian, I do not find it necessary to defend God. It should not surprise religious people that those outside of their religion don't agree with them. 1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:14 "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand because they are spiritually discerned."

[@jenna2431]

What is he doing wrong? Trying to apply rationality where none seemingly exists.

[@ArturHedlund]

Hell scared me so much that i started to beileve. Have faith bruter

[@milflover6969]

@@ArturHedlund hell is a story made up to control you. It all is

[@ArturHedlund]

@@milflover6969 u are fooled. The church were thr ones who tried to fool us. Religion is not only the church. It is true that many corrupt people worked in church but it doesnt say anything about that in the bible. And even if there is only a 0.00000000000000001% of hell existing shouldnt that scare you still? The same way we are scared of an asteroid hitting earth? Even though it is a low chance the outcome would be so horrible that it might be worth it to protect from it. Thats my take on why atheist should convert.

[@liamwillick2059]

So what is rationality if not just a subconscious manifestation of your own fears and desires, thats why everyone has their own rational and reason because they have their own personal fears and desires, and therefore their reason is not perfect and certainly only human and not worthy of worship in any way shape or form

[@vaxrvaxr]

@@ArturHedlund Is that another way of saying you did permanent damage to your model of the world as a means of managing fear?

[@sammuslu2992]

"Its very hard to find a black cat in a room without light especially if its not there "

[@phillipwesson8785]

‘You gotta have faith, f faith f faith’ St. George Micheal

[@kd8663]

This was my experience. I tried so very hard, but maybe that was the problem. Maybe I shouldn’t have looked for truth so ardently that I found it.