Christopher Hitchens on misconceptions about Islamic terrorism

I uploaded the complete video with fixed audio here:
• Christopher Hitchens: ...

[@wowthatsbs]

my intellectual hero...rest in peace christopher

[@bollockowithalob]

Hitch is the finest essayist since Orwell. Thanks for uploading.

[@equsnarnd]

@yuptydoo I've read a lot of Bertrand Russell but not that. Have you any titles?

[@kranti1019]

"Moral blackmail" you are god damn right!!!!

[@Slothy691]

Well said, I am looking in vain for his equal, alas for humanity

[@layla302]

@benthemiester Really? What happened? Do you know somewhere I can read about the incident? Maybe a video or something. Thanks!

[@guitarpicka1]

Christopher....You are a true 21st century Hero...your clarity of thought and speech...is just so inspiring...BRAVO TO YOU..!!!!

[@perkeleman]

Is there anyone more eloquent than Hitchens?

[@CarlJosephEscarian]

Do you have any videos about it ? I would like to know about christian missionaries spreading hatred .Please provide me some articles or videos about it .I'm interested on that matter I wanted to know more about this sir.

[@matsurika1]

@landesdesign Coming from someone from someone who lives in Hong Kong and honestly doesn't know the issues too well here, can you elaborate about why you hold your stance in Iraq?

[@Jack72824]

@theoldspicestuff I've read many of Hitchens' books and articles, and I'm aware, as is anyone who cares to read him, of the significant decline in his rationality, as well as morality. Perhaps the two are linked. Exactly what are these "contentions" of his that you and your professors can't "find answers" for? Could you be specific, please?

[@abhishekviswanathan3842]

You just made my day.

[@Biyer11]

Yes you are absolutely right, and as a practicing Hindu I'm deeply ashamed of this barbarism and would personally wish to apologize to the afflicted and hope that such fanaticism stops forever.

[@elie876]

I could listn to this man for ever

[@PaulOrtiz]

I love how everyone is acting shocked/surprised at the way things are going in Pakistan now. Hitch called it years ago.

[@Auspexable]

Can someone link the full version of this? thank you.

[@UtopiaMinor666]

@pastuso1bc might i ask what difference it would make if it could be proved he were a muslim?

[@Melvin6566842]

I posted the full version of Christopher Hitchens speech here: watch?v=go5AGck6e-w The whole discussion you can watch on the C-SPAN website or on the link I left there to the fora tv website in the infobox

[@altosax1st]

I would disagree with Hitchens' usage of the term "clash of civilization". As demostrated by the very existence of the talk shown here, there are no two monolithic "civilizations" to clash, but rather factions inside what we term "civilizations". Just a point on semantics.

[@joope666]

@mysock351W What did i miss? The part where you explained your total historic inaccuracies/lies?

[@Vihamshras]

Hinduism is a single religion; just because it isn't monotheistic doesn't mean it isn't one. You can always classify an organization into further parts. You can break Islam into Shia, Sunni, Ahmadiya etc. Religion should not have any place in the lawmaking books. I completely agree that religious minorities shouldn't be given any privileges. But then calling for pro Hindu policies isn't fair as well. Religion simply shouldn't have any role in the formulation of policies.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@Joope666: you seem to misunderstand the word "systematic". Isolated brutal acts, not instituted by the powers-that-be, do not "systematic" make, however common. And I'm not so sure there were as "MANY instances" as you seem to think. Furthermore, there's a big difference between the mistreatment of US Indians and the Pogroms of E Europe - let alone the Holocaust.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@joope666; you should note that the area bombing of Germany was retaliatory and the result of an inability to precisely hit targets. In attacks on their own cities, the British noted that concentrations of German incendiary bombs caused the most damage, and went on to work out how to cause the same result in German cities. The targets were industrial cities, and the planners spoke of de-housing, rather than terror or slaughter.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@joope666 : I agree with the implication that the most sadistic and least restrained people have an advantage in war, and that warfare is murder, it is sadism. And that few sides in a conflict have nothing to be ashamed of. However, most participants do tend to control themselves and take pride in doing so, and its the most absurd relativism to say that this self restraint is valueless, because violence is inherently nasty.

[@kingda117]

@JayMessenjah if you had political power, what would you do?

[@benthemiester]

@surelady "The European countries you're refering to still cling to the taint of the past unfortunately, despite apparently atheist majority" Great point thanks for making it. From this conversation were having, so far I feel comfortable standing behind my argument that this country that has a Christian majority still has the greatest freedoms in the worlds and that the 5 or 6 countries that are still officially atheist are not considered bastions of freedoms.

[@wowthatsbs]

the world lost a great man in hitch....RIP

[@desmulhern6872]

Word!

[@neil73]

@jaykulls I agree with you here. If only more people would speak up...

[@Vihamshras]

the Shunga coup was just one example. The actual decline of Buddhism took place in the Gupta period. You can read the works of Indian historian SR Goyal on that. And agreed there were other factors like the rise of Vaishnava movements; but there have been many instances of violence against Buddhist monks.

[@yuptydoo]

@equsnarnd Have you read Bertrand Russell's essays on Islam? He seemed to be quite enamored by the tenets of the religion, contrary to the majority of the public opinion today.

[@yeshuasage3724]

So eloquent

[@gtavsmsg10]

where's part 1?

[@writersblock26]

Thank you for posting this, Melvin6566842.

[@RakeeshJ4]

I wonder-who is it who's downvoting nearly every reply I make in this thread, exactly? Is it supposed to stop me from conversing, or what?

[@624697]

please ans my questions below one by one before putting something entirely out of the context into the conversation its confusing to both of us

[@Hirnlego999]

@ogirv101 No, it's not from Dawkins.. the quote is a pretty good representation of the thinking that goes inside dogmatic churches. There are reasons why they kept speaking latin in churches and even set a guy on fire for committing the crime of translating to bible to a language which people can understand. One can also see that the religious has had quite a bit apologizing to do..because they so much of it wrong and still do..

[@DamienBlade]

@yusufulhas Not spell checking is a good way of saying "I don't read what I write, I just hit the post button."

[@786swe]

Bharatwaj Iyer already replied to you. It amazes me to see how many people, after reading the translation into a limited language like English, seem to think that they are important enough that the word "they" in the verses in the Quran refer to them instead of the context in which the verses were all about.

[@user.--.]

How is English limited?

[@Biyer11]

The first thing to make clear is the words used in the Quran to address people. The word Allah means God in arabic. He is not a tribal or communal but a generic god. This particular verse refers to the battle with the Eastern Roman boundary which was provoked by the Christian community. So this verse refers to the enemies. Words like infidel or idolater etc are simply words to refer to people in that time. When translated to English it has a divisive effect, but was used to refer only.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

I'm finding it awkward to talk on here as KZbin severely restricts the number of posts. And does so unpredictable. Last night it only allowed one.

[@MELISSA3536]

@tarun1982 I thought a lot about our discussion last night and feel sadness that you were treated the way you described, I agree that many Americans are unaware of the situation that exists in your part of the world but do not mistake ignorance for uncaring. My response to your initial comment was very much because I like you do not want to be grouped in with people who represent hate and unkindness.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@Joope666 : 3./unexploded ordinance: A true issue, relating to the cluster bombs issue. But not one often mentioned by terrorist ideologues. You seem to feel that personal tragedy causes terrorism, rather than one's political/ideological/religious views. I think in reality if that were true things would be much easier, people would abandon violence for a modest improvement in their lives or reduction of misery.

[@RakeeshJ4]

According to you, they have been doing more than just replying word for word, but I do see your point. But think of this: if you object to a biased, unfair outlook and propaganda of your nation's politics and media, why are you you eager to make their job easier? When they can truthfully put up a headline of some missionary somewhere lynched or attacked or threatened, do you imagine it makes your side of things look better, or worse? Do you think that will DIScourage missionaries?

[@7kurisu]

i find myself swayed by hitchens argument here but have to wonder about the political views of those gathered about in this conference... must we do a deal with these conservatives to rid ourselves of islamic terror and its more moderate, apologist but still backward majority? what a thorny issue.

[@josefvickers]

I agree that in any religion, the believers themselves are often the biggest victims of its shortfalls and that distinction is important. For me, the biggest problem is that Islam is generally taken more seriously than Judaism and Christianity once were. The latter two are not being extinguished by force. The light of reason has been shed and their irrationalities/falsehoods revealed slowly over time. But an attempt to *exterminate* a fundamentally irrational belief system is at best futile.

[@MELISSA3536]

My issue with the caste system is that it feels very oppressive, if you are born in to a very low class you can never access opportunities to give your children a better life, this allows the rich to always profit off the poor. I am glad to hear that this system is less popular today and it makes sense that it is more political than religious because I find it to be in contrary to the little I know about Hinduism. Do you find there are many tensions between the classes?

[@sanna8300]

It’s not a CASTE system. Caste comes from Portuguese word CASTA. It’s a class system that will exist in any free market economy or any society for that matter. The last names that are labeled as Castes(by the British) are connected to their work/profession. Like goldsmith or tailor. It’s not good for sure but let’s call it what it is and not something that’s just British propaganda.

[@surelady]

@benthemiester My understanding is that Hitchens lives in the United States because it is a secular repbulic, which is enshrined in the constitution. This is true whether the population has a majority of Christians or not.

[@josefvickers]

Thanks Melvin!

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@Joope666 :(cont) I believe I mentioned the bombing of Caen as an example of the 'blunt instrument' reality. Also, there's the RAF's failure to hit ANYTHING before Area Bombing in 1942, the retaliatory principle, and the utilitarian argument that victory, or a quicker victory, would save lives.

[@TeKNiQ50]

No, everyone should stick together to fight religious fundamentalism and interference with secular societies, regardless of whether the source of controversy stems from Hindus, Christians, Muslims, or Buddhists. It just so happens that the followers of Abraham tend to have the most crazies.

[@isaachaze1]

@surelady Very true. I know I'm very late to this particular youtube comment party, but would like to say people like benthemiester are quite talented at quote mining, twisting words etc. Not sure how far you'll get with people like that in a debate, but you did pretty well :). People like benthe are filled with thinly veiled hate (and I suspect self-hatred) and nothing you say to them is going to change that

[@valdetaisuti4950]

To be fair though, the Spanish inquisition (which began after the reconquista was already finished) was not nearly as bad as is often made out to be. The total number executed was only about 3000 over several centuries. The total number put to death for witchcraft in Europe in the same period was over 60,000.

[@RakeeshJ4]

@SJJGautham08 As for how what you said condones violence-you specifically liken missionaries to jihadis, to terrorists, to mass murderers, and exhort your fellows to respond with violence. You did so in plain language. You can either let those words stand and admit you were condoning violence, or explain why you didn't mean what you plainly said.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@joope666 : In a comparison between "America" and "Islamic terrorism", how can you believe the US is NOT morally superior? It's behaviour in a war is more restrained, full stop. But I could add it's also more restrained about what it considers a 'just cause' for violence (eg. No massacres of Muslims because someone insulted Christ).

[@jopalolive]

Is the audience hall half empty or half full?

[@joope666]

@CBfrmcardiff Additionally, my point was that it is somewhat wrong to imply one side's conduct during war is somehow 'humane' or 'morally superior' because the reality of war is a race to the bottom where whoever disposes of more humanity quicker wins. There were many summary executions of 'axis' conscripts by allied forces and troop sadism is just a reality of any side in any conflict and army mentality, even in the U.N. we see this.

[@deevine1818]

“Morally Superior” is not merely implied in religious warfare as such is sanctioned by “Just Cause” and “Holy War.”

[@BunkumAndTripe]

Yes but what are you actually doing about it? Calling them big meanies?

[@musiclover9361]

I think you should re-examine your claim. Hitchens not only cites a letter from Mother Teresa to the judge in a court case, he actually reproduces it in its entirety on page 67! Don't be so disingenuous as to say he offers not one single citation in the entire Mother Teresa critique.

[@musiclover9361]

Then you have obviously not read his scathing criticism of those self-same atrocities in 'The Trial of Henry Kissinger.' I would respectfully suggest you read it and then reconsider your contention that Hitch 'didn't whisper'. He was shouting it from the rooftops until his death and if you are not aware of this, you know little of his work.

[@benthemiester]

@layla302 Correction I misspoke. It was in Beirut.

[@michael616joaquin]

@Mikeybetts not true, up to the 9th century the muslims were the centre for science and cutting edge philosophy, I'm not muslim btw i just read, you may want to as well before making ridiculous statements..

[@CarlJosephEscarian]

of course there are passages in the Old Testament ,which provided rationale for such acts. Its clear. But what I would like to know about is about missionaries spreading hatred. What myths/rumors are they trying to propagate about hinduism ? Do they treat hinduism in the same way as they have treated pagan cultures many centuries before?

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@Joope666 : I MAY be 'in denial', but I'd not set out to deceive you. Promise. Re: Berlin (why not Dresden?) I feel its really quite sinister to look at the Second World War from a neutral perspective, actually. Besides, such a blunt analysis ignores the mindset of the time, and the situation.

[@aspirezakura]

To be honest, offending A BILLION people with one small, frivilous comment makes me feel pretty fucking powerful. I'm going to do it at every possible opportunity.

[@Nasiruddin84]

@beginization You didn't actually read what I wrote, isn't it?

[@surelady]

@benthemiester Excellent analogy with the KKK rally. Also a reprehensible group. Pissing on their flag may be a little extreme, mind you. But if a black man or woman decided to do so, I'm not sure I could find it in my heart to condemn them for it.

[@624697]

@SJJGautham08 to me i believe the opposite indian constitution is not perfect but its a good blend of modern concepts and our cultural ethos

[@MELISSA3536]

@tarun1982 As a result of our conversation I will make an effort to learn more about the culture, politics, and religion of your people and share that knowledge with those around me. May your life be filled with peace and happiness.

[@valdetaisuti4950]

True, I think orientalism has part to do with it. It's ironic though, that it was the Ottomans, so vilified by later Serb nationalist propoganda, which provided the incubator for the Serb's national identity. Likewise, the Serbs act as though the ALbanian presence in Kosovo is illigitimate bacause it occured under the ottomans, yet conventiently forget that the fact that there are any Serbs in Western Bosnia and Croatia at all is due to the Ottomans and the Austrians (another colonial master).

[@ccricers]

People should put aside religion until they learn not to incorporate elements of competition into it. Everyone from every religion should ignore other religions and not perceive them as threats. A competitive attitude and spirit undermines your sense of morality. You can't be on your moral high horse about religion and be competitive about it at the same time.

[@miscegenatormama557]

So, what you're saying is: if I feel that you have antagonized me by doing something that I consider to be 'spreading hatred' about me, and I retaliate with violence, then that's YOUR fault? Funny ethics there, friend.

[@leffehoegaarden]

SOURCE?

[@amolkhobaragade]

Islamic terrorism is not a precise word,Islamic extremism is.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@joope666: Marriage in the USA, as on the rest of the planet, has been a legal institution until now not available to couples of the same gender. Specific laws have to be passed to enable gay marriage. There have been proposals by some on the religious right to amend the constitution to forbid the states to institute such laws, but no Amendment has been enacted. So you're wrong on that one.

[@mrgianlucavialli]

excellent!!!

[@Melvin6566842]

"The Koran is Borrowed from Both Jewish and Christian Myths"

[@CBfrmcardiff]

Besides which, as Hitchens points out, the concerns of Al-Quaida and affiliates were not retaliation for (non-existent) American atrocities. The removal of American troops from Saudi soil? The recovery of East Timor? Palestine came well down the list. Their motive was all pride and identity politics.

[@kynismos]

Don't Say You Haven't Been Warned.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@Joope666 re:proxy wars. That example's not remotely rational (though it would be, if the terrorists were pissed-off moderates, or Russians). I think the whole "proxy wars" thing is overstated. Sure, in that example the West funded Afghan resistance to invasion, I'm not sure there was anything nefarious in that.

[@gspaulsson]

@gluetubeserver 1. He is dead, and yet we are still watching him. 2. Many people on the Internet are not native English speakers, and one should not make fun of them. Having said that, I have no idea what sicker57is trying to say.

[@CDoc91]

"The primary support for the Taliban comes from Pakistan, not from destabilization in Afghanistan" so why wasn't the Taliban and their ideals dominant in Afghanistan as opposed to being a secular democracy before the invasions and interferences of the superpowers? The insurgency is constituted primarily by Pashtuns (as is Afghanistan), but as we have established primarily Pashtuns that do not associate themselves with the racism of the Taliban.

[@Vihamshras]

persecution of Buddhists isn't a myth. We can argue over our ideologies but we can't argue over facts. You can refer to any neutral source for that

[@telstar2let]

@thatamazinggeek The US was not 'occupying' Saudi Arabia per say, but they did leave tens of thousands of troops stationed in the country after the first Gulf War from 1990 until about 2003. Thats what bin laden meant about the occupation thing.

[@624697]

ur arguments about conversions being a communal affair is only applicable if the conversions are forced. the fact tht its not and ur level of twisting smthing to suit ur own convoluted version of justice is truly mind boggling

[@beginization]

@SockbatReplica It was headline news about 2 weeks ago in a number of news websites like the dailey caller and American thinker, they have archives so check it out, you will be very suprised and disappointed by Hitchens actions after all these years claiming to hate religion. I never was keen on Hitchens but did admire him for sticking to his guns. I dont know if the cancer has anything to do with his decision but in a interview he did say he was bitter about the world going on without him

[@DaniboyBR2]

The resistance to theocracy will use Hitchens articulations forever and ever, and we thank this great intellecual/philosopher for that, rest in peace Hitch.

[@RakeeshJ4]

We may disagree on the meaning of the word 'innocent', then, but you go on to say something totally absurd. Missionaries are the same as jihadis? Do missionaries travel about beheading infidels? Do they blow up places of worship, and demand at gunpoint land be given to them or support? Well if they do, then they have actually BECOME jihadis, but these two terms simply mean different things. As for making proseltyzing illegal in India, nothing would serve to weaken its culture better.

[@Vihamshras]

This debate can go on and on, our views of our own culture are poles apart. Let's just do our own thing and leave the rest to the elected representatives of our democracy.

[@benthemiester]

@surelady "Actually, USA is the only country in the world with a truly secular constitution" I would also strongly urge you to research a little more before you make statements like the one above. Just a little advice.

[@valdetaisuti4950]

We meet again Aran :) 1. Ah yes, the Robert Spencer version of the Crusades, the mirror image of Bin Laden's version. The Fatimids were attacking the Byzantine empire or Europe? That explaination might make sense, had they been aimed at, for example, the conquered Christian lands in Spain, rather than the relatively peaceful and enlightened areas in the Levant. There was no pan-Islamic threat to Europe in the 11th century, hence why the First Crusade was successful. 2.

[@SeekerOfCheese]

Sorry but Atheist Mythology? What are you talking about? And who said anything about Atheists having a pagan background? You do realise that to be an Atheist is simply we assert that there is no empirical or logical evidence for the existence of a God/Gods. Pagans can quite often be Polytheists, so I have to ask you, do you understand what is meant by the term 'Atheist' and 'Pagan', the latter having a few connotations down the ages.

[@mooglebee8]

Hitch is a hero

[@monsterzeroJr]

"Sharia against slavery". This is an incredible statement that took me aback for a minute as I had the think about the man who posted that. Wow, what can I say..I've meet many Muslim liars on the Internet but this troll beats them all.

[@terrypussypower]

When it comes to religion Hitchens is on the button every time !

[@yuptydoo]

@IgnosticView101 Right, because Bertrand Russell was notorious for his academic incompetence.

[@barrach7]

Hey! You're right! Thanks!

[@Vihamshras]

Dude what are you saying.Rig Veda is considered to be the most holy book of Hindus."Many Hindus don't recognize Vedas?". Well try saying that to your "friendly nice tolerant" guys at VHP. The word "Varna" means colour. And its division based on race and not on qualities. Caste system IS the Varna system. The Rig Vedic society was one which was based on suppression of indigenous tribes for the purpose of political gains of the so called "higher castes"

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@joope666 :... Cont... Additionally, because war is hell this does not mean that violence is never the answer to a problem. Without violence from 'good' people, society would fall apart. As in the civil space, so on the world stage. Also, my assumptions are that America is relatively 'good' at self restraint, and that this might even be one of the reasons it fails to defeat its enemies - as the US does not race to the bottom it puts itself at disadvantage.

[@MELISSA3536]

@tarun1982 I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Of course there are people in the West who dislike any group that is different than them, this is NOT a Western way of thinking its a human way of thinking, your implying that racism only exists there, which is not true. Hinduism is actually a religion that is much more respected than many others in the West (even though it incorporates a caste system which I find very racist.) Many Westerners are brown people.

[@7x34hj]

Sadly, you are right. I think our sense of 'fairness' has backfired and it is certainly unappreciated by many entering our countries. It is not racist to want to keep ones own culture and race dominant in ones own country. There is a point when the number of 'guests' in a country increases to such an amount that they become 'invaders'. We need to see things as they are, stop being 'told' to respect and stop patronising.