Church historian weighs in on historical acquisition of Kirtland Temple

Church historian Glenn Rawson weighed in on the acquisition of historic sites, documents, and artifacts from Community of Christ.
Read more: ksltv.com/628263/church-histo...

[@davidchoate512]

As one of the members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I was one of the members who anticipated this day with a sense of entitlement, but I have come to realize the members of the community of Christ dedicated their time and energy in preserving these sites and they should be honored and appreciated and we need to share these sacred places, artifacts, and documents with them to enjoy together. As a historian just said, “they are our close cousins” in the family of Christ.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

I certainly agree.

[@TaiPHoo]

And they got rewarded for their preservation, in the tune of $192.5 Million, which they will blow in ten years and be broke again.

[@jaybravo2199]

@@TaiPHoo Why do you say that?

[@TaiPHoo]

@@jaybravo2199 : They broke themselves into bankruptcy, paying their ministers with lavish parsonages and pensions. The LDS Church has bailed them out over the years with various other acquisitions. The RLDS Church is not good with money, and with a history based on the lies of William Marks and Jason Briggs, they will continue to crumble.

[@jaybravo2199]

@@TaiPHoo If you read the very accessible and open financial reports from the Community of Christ, you'd learn that their ministers are paid a very comparable parsonage compared to other like-sized religious organizations and the hyperbolic term of "lavish" is well off the mark. In fact, their ministry and q15 are paid less than the estimated "stipend" paid to the q15 of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... so unless you want to call that lavish, I think you are spewing an unvalidated bias. Also, their tithing isn't tied to their access to exaltation and is not obligatory. Related, their income has declined significantly over the past few years as their membership number have also dropped. And an interesting note, The Community of Christ gives a *_substantially_* larger portion to charitable causes percentage wise than that of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does. By their fruits, or something like that... Also the phrase you use, "bail them out" is not accurate to the situation at hand. Of course, you'd know that if you actually had familiarity with the actual and very public financials of the Community of Christ.

[@asjzmtbkn]

Exciting news to hear and see!!!

[@kellybrandon1179]

Mark Hoffman sold himself short. Go go team zion

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Genesis 25:31-34.

[@zionmama150]

I am so glad. I was in tears ro hear this news!!! 🗞️

[@bensonjarvis5025]

Hallelujah

[@outsideview9052]

Do I have this wrong or doesnt the Community of Christ Church own part of the temple lot in MIssouri? Buying that property might come later but getting it included with this purchase would have been something worth all of this excitement.

[@TaiPHoo]

Give it five more years when the RLDS are bankrupt again.

[@VaLynne1]

The 300 X 200 ft Temple lot in Independence is not owned by either the Community of Christ nor The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is owned by The Church of Christ, originally known as The Church of Christ, Temple Lot. in 1891 the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Community of Christ was called at that time, did sue the Church of Christ for that piece of land but did not win their case. The Community of Christ does own the largest part of the 63 acres with The Church of Jesus Christ owning the 2nd largest portion. Originally there were to be 24 Temples built on the 63 acres. Most would not be for ordinance work as we think of Temples today. The Community of Christ Church has not only their Temple across the street from the Temple Lot, but across another street from the Temple lot is an auditorium that they also own. Today it is rented out for high school graduations and other events. But the Temple Lot that Joseph Smith dedicated is where The Temple will be built sometime in the future. The Church of Christ in 1927 did dig a hole for the foundation of a Temple and found the survey markers Joseph had placed. They were moved into the The Church of Christ building for safe keeping and can be seen there. Due to some disputes over different things they ran out of money before being able to start construction. For several years the huge whole that had been dug was left open and eventually in 1946 the City of Independence filled in the hole. If you go to Independence now, you will see a very well kept and maintained grassy area. Kitty corner from the lot, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have a very nice Visitor Center that is of course free of charge to visit and enjoy. Next to the VC is a big parking lot and on the other side of the parking lot is the Independence Stake Center, also on the original 63 acres. The whole area, of 63 acres owned by the 3 churches, is very well kept and a beautiful place to visit.

[@outsideview9052]

@@VaLynne1 Thank you for correcting me on the ownership of this important Temple lot in Independence MS. I wonder if the Church of Christ will ever be willing to sell it and what price they may ask. I would be inclinded to simply buy property near that site and build the temple next to it. Still, that probably would not work very well.

[@annewandering]

The temple lot was dedicated for a temple but with it changing hands it is not dedicated anymore. Perhaps in the future it will be rededicated. We will see. @@outsideview9052

[@SongMom8]

This is a big moment.

[@user-qm8cm1dn2v]

... You value reality, he says you are a fool "Reflection What is Heaven What is Earth Human eyes see human principles What is God What is soul The foolish ghosts cannot recognize Gods Time-space is manifold, yet people don’t see All beings’ bodies intersect Your church-his pigpen Your dinner table-his toilet You value reality, he says you are a fool Human wisdom has superior and inferior lots January 4, 2012" Master Li Hongzhi (Hong Yin IV, from Falun Dafa teachings)

[@everaldodejesus4018]

I'm so excited. I don't know why but I am.

[@skyhiker9669]

Very cool! 🥹

[@derekelliott6098]

I'm a few miles from Kirtland, in Mentor. I know of the temple - prodoment at the top of the hill.

[@corbindallasmultipass]

The end is getting close, no doubt. This is one step closer, make no mistake. When independence Missouri happens, its getting REAL close....

[@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua]

The Church just sold a whole bunch of land in the Independence, MO area. Didn't you hear about that?

[@mattp.7002]

The Church’s acquisition of the Kirkland Temple doesn’t change the significant events that occurred there for me. I don’t believe that the end is any closer or farther away than it is and I don’t consider this event as “a sign of the times”. While I think that historic preservation is important, I don’t think that the Community of Christ (RLDS) was doing a bad job of preserving this and other historic sites. I’m glad that the Community of Christ (RLDS) will still have access to these sites. The Church will take good care of them for sure and that’s what’s important.

[@zjco9344]

Every generation is the chosen generation and every dollar the church spends makes the end closer. If Jesus is coming, they better repent for their fraudulent shell companies.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

All the saints are not going to be called to move to Missouri if you are still thinking that way.

[@jaybravo2199]

Why do you say that?

[@packman579]

D&C 117:16

[@juliaweber212]

So wonderful

[@jaybravo2199]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't worship Joseph Smith... "Just to be able to put your hand on that door and say Joseph touched that door and was right behind it, I can’t wait, I just can’t wait." Said Glenn Rawsonn, professional tour guide of church sites. In all seriousness, cool use of a $193 million, I hope the church keeps it as close to the original structures as the Community of Christ did.

[@sinisterchin1592]

I’d be pretty excited to go into the same lions den that Daniel was in, or to see the actual tablets the Ten Commandments were written on, or any artifact for that matter that came from previous prophets… same thing here. It’s very exciting!

[@brentbeacham9691]

The building and door weren’t open to the public? The place has been in use, right? Why couldn’t he have touched the door 15 or 20 years ago by walking into the building?

[@jaybravo2199]

@@brentbeacham9691 But now he gets to advertise it to members of the church who are ready to pay a premium to have him give them a faith affirming tour mixed with the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

[@darrinhawkins8087]

@@jaybravo2199 The LDS Church will not charge for entry...

[@jaybravo2199]

@@darrinhawkins8087 but this “expert” they interviewed is an LDS themed tour guide who charges a premium to host faith affirming tours.

[@nadurkee46]

Whilst the The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S.’s rejoices, be humble and don’t be over exuberant as to come across as “gloating.” One’s gain is a loss for another group.

[@mirkopolyak3592]

The beautiful thing about voluntary financial transactions is that both parties get what they want. In this case, one party got property, the other party got cash. Nobody suffered a "loss".

[@TaiPHoo]

How is this a loss for the Josephites? They've been begging for this cash for years now. They are bankrupt.

[@JosueOutdoors]

$200M Purchase

[@minaguta4147]

Next time try interviewing a real historian. Glen Rawson is not that. He's a tour guide.

[@jaybravo2199]

It was a weird choice. Glenn has a degree in wildlife management and educational administration and charges a considerable amount of money hosting church themed tours. However, this served as a great commercial for him for upcoming and expensive tours.

[@nephitedecent]

👍😁

[@TravisWayneGoodsell1970]

A brand new female President and she quits Joseph Smith and his religion and rituals. What does that say to Brighamite Christians? Both believe in Jesus, and now there is a greater gulf between the two Jesus'.

[@zionmama150]

Anything Trinitarian is a false view of Jesus. That said, we would never go around saying they or other evangelicals or groups not Christians. A Christian is anyone who follows Jesus’s teachings. Even if they don’t believe in God.

[@inshanity84]

I don’t even know what you are trying to say.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Yes, probably the Community of Christ will completely dump their Smith heritage and become a mainstream church.

[@debrawelcome8158]

Venom is never nice.

[@CMZIEBARTH]

Jesus's Jesus' is possessive, not plural.

[@11UncleBooker22]

Go "Woke", go broke.

[@kuna507]

Whatt

[@bensonjarvis5025]

Could you elaborate on that?

[@ck2696]

Not sure how that statement applies here. What's your point?

[@MonMon-uy8jt]

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;" Genesis 3:17 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24 So, there is Nothing "sacred" about that cursed ground, according to the bible; and mormon's are cursed with a false gospel as well.

[@user-ee4cu1du6y]

Nope

[@LagunaBeachTrashPickup]

And where does the taxman figure in?

[@outsideview9052]

Why would this purchase do anything to strenghten the testimony of someone in the Church? There is nothing new here only the ownership has changed.

[@kcb5336]

I’m pretty confused by the reaction of the LDS members. This seems more like a financial burden than anything else. I think the acquisition is weird

[@jaybravo2199]

@@kcb5336 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the resources in spades to be able to afford this... the Community of Christ however has been struggling lately. This large influx of cash was sorely needed.

[@brentbeacham9691]

@@kcb5336 Financial burden for a company/ church with billions?

[@bensonjarvis5025]

The Kirkland Temple is the first temple the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. During the early years of the church, the church was forced to sell the Kirkland temple for many reasons. Buying back the Kirkland temple is special moment for the members of the church, including myself. I hope this clears it up

[@outsideview9052]

@@bensonjarvis5025 Being a "special moment" is one thing but the man in the video said this would "strengthen the faith and testimony" of the average LDS member. I am glad that these properties are now in the Churches control but there is no new information coming so I dont see how it increases anyones faith in God or in Joseph Smiths calling as a prophet.

[@Dave-if5qj]

Who cares

[@kenkindrick4227]

The writing on the Kirkland Temple reads, "Built by The Church of the Latter Day Saints". Will that remain or be changed? Does that offend Jesus, President Nelson?

[@CMZIEBARTH]

Kirtland

[@JCsouthernmiss]

Bruh are you good? No it doesn’t offend anyone.

[@jaybravo2199]

@@JCsouthernmiss As long as it doesn't say built by the "Mormons", am I right?

[@bensonjarvis5025]

@@jaybravo2199I agree

[@lylestavast7652]

I would think it would remain as it is as a heritage site. That name came into use around 1834, it was built in 1836 (with Church using that name specifically) and then the present day name coming in 1838, in Missouri (I think). So leaving it as it was at the time it was done would be consistent with history and it's being a historical building kept in the time period as much as possible.

[@Golfdad8356]

Death, taxes, ex-Mormons who can’t leave the church alone in the comment section….

[@jaybravo2199]

Just last week, I had the missionaries stop off at my door AGAIN after being told before to leave us alone... not to mention the well intentioned primary leader who keeps trying to contact my kids without consulting me. I'd be happy to leave the church alone when the church leaves everyone else alone... deal?

[@sdfotodude]

Doesn't Satan say that you can buy anything in this world with money? I guess except for integrity and honesty.

[@carolyearsley]

God does not dwell in temples made with human hands.--The Bible

[@Aaronjames2023]

Make not my fathers house a house of merchandise

[@davidchoate512]

2 Thou who hast commanded thy servants to build a house to thy name in this place [Kirtland]. 3 And now thou beholdest, O Lord, that thy servants have done according to thy commandment. 4 And now we ask thee, Holy Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of thy bosom, in whose name alone salvation can be administered to the children of men, we ask thee, O Lord, to accept of this house, the workmanship of the hands of us, thy servants, which thou didst command us to build. 5 For thou knowest that we have done this work through great tribulation; and out of our poverty we have given of our substance to build a house to thy name, that the Son of Man might have a place to manifest himself to his people. 6 And as thou hast said in a revelation, given to us, calling us thy friends, saying-Call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you; 7 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith; 8 Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing, and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;

[@carolyearsley]

@@Aaronjames2023 or a den of thieves

[@JESUSRETURNISNEAR]

Ex Mormon here!! Come to the real Jesus in the Bible

[@carolyearsley]

@@JESUSRETURNISNEAR The Jesus I follow was a simple itinerant preacher who followed the doctrine of the Essenes, not the supernatural super hero invented by Constantine at the Council of Nicea to strengthen the Roman Empire.

[@elfaraon383]

Sad priorities.

[@bensonjarvis5025]

No, Glorious priorities

[@elfaraon383]

@@bensonjarvis5025 For Jospeh Smith s worshipers but not for the Lord's.

[@bensonjarvis5025]

@@elfaraon383 that is a misconception, the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do Not, I repeat, do not worship Joseph Smith. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints worship Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father. It’s in the name of the church, we are Not call the church of Joseph Smith. No, we are members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We worship Heavenly Father and his beloved son Jesus Christ.

[@MavHunter20XX]

You mean the inspired version where Joseph Smith put himself into the Bible? Used ZERO manuscripts?

[@Mcfunface]

Still made more sense than folks nowadays trying to call removing your privates normal.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

He used manuscripts. It is based on Adam Clarke's Bible commentary.

[@Number4lead]

​@@Mcfunface I'm not LDS but you got a point there.😂

[@MavHunter20XX]

@@Number4leadI was with it till the got on the topic of polygamy, it started go go downhill from there.

[@smaug3045]

The sign on the temple "The Church of Latter Day Saints" wonder if that will stay, after all isn't it a victory for Satan, not having the churches proper name on it. Oh wait that is what the name of the church was back then, regardless of what the BoM says.

[@brentbeacham9691]

Good way to launder money.

[@zionmama150]

Bull crap. A good way to be good stewards as that they will be able to earthquake proof that edifice

[@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua]

@@zionmama150 Are you talking about the Kirtland Temple?

[@denniskix5471]

Dont think that is the motive here. If you are trying to launder money, It doesnt make much sense to freeze it in something you are never going to sell and will pay to maintain from now on. The church bought this to ensure it is preserved.

[@zionmama150]

@@eclipse-sh1qmZ3mOtcua They will need to earthquake proof that temple if it is to stand when New Madrid ruptures

[@kellybrandon1179]

Supply and demand.. big pay day for sure

[@travislee9396]

Wow. Two false religions working together. Seems to me the crap is collecting at the bottom of the bowl. Perhaps a flush is coming soon?

[@geoffreypalmer2661]

[@bensonjarvis5025]

You will see when Jesus comes back to earth on the second coming

[@travislee9396]

@@bensonjarvis5025 yep. Sure will. Hope y’all are on Gods side.

[@ck2696]

Perhaps a flush will come but not in the way you imply.

[@ck2696]

Perhaps a flush will come soon but not in the way you imply.