Circle K vs. Electrify America EV Charging: Who Won the DCFC Race in Minnesota?

[@plugandplayEV]

If you're watching this the day it goes live, join us tonight for a live stream covering the future of Electrify America... is the network DOOOOOOMED? Set an alert here and share your thoughts later today: kzbin.info/www/bejne/naOlaKetrrpjmZI

[@brianriebedriveselectric]

Great to see more chargers opening up this corridor. I wonder if long term the use case for The EA spot will be for those longer deep charge (or fast charge) situations where the Holiday/Circle K spot will end up being more of an opportunity charge with people stopping in quickly as they use the restroom or get a snack. I can see those having more turn around in a couple years. Either way, I’m glad to have them!

[@plugandplayEV]

It's great to see and will definitely change the CCS EV travel experience on that route. There will be another EA station going in at Menard's in Duluth, which will presumably see some other CPOs moving in there as well next year. Then if they can just add one or two 100+kW options along the North Shore and somewhere between Duluth and International Falls, the north/south journeys will take much less planning!

[@LakeLake123]

Thanks for the video! This is a route I drive weekly - wasn’t expecting to see a video on it! I’d been shaking my head at that seemingly-abandoned EA station in Pine City for many months.

[@plugandplayEV]

Thanks for watching. I hope the new Circle K station helps ease the journey!

[@marstong]

Like your videos and thanks for visiting MN. I got the chance to use the new Holliday/CircleK station on the way to Duluth this past weekend and was pleased with the experience! The EA station in Woodbury has been derated for months and my Ioniq 5 can only get to 164kW on the 360kW. The CircleK station was plug, swipe, 5 seconds and it was charging at 178kW. So, very glad they deploying in MN! They get it. With an Ioniq 5 or equivalent EA will be my second choice, even with the free plan I have on EA, because EA is such a mixed bag of how much time do waste getting connected and charging. I hope EA can do better, but the regional ZEF provider is the worst as they take the tax incentives and provide the worst experience at the highest cost.

[@plugandplayEV]

Thank you, Glenn. I'm glad the Circle K station served you well. Woodbury EA, along with Eau Claire and Madison in Wisconsin, certainly solidified my understanding that the Electrify Amercia experience varies significantly by region. If I take the 800 miles or so from Boston to western Ohio, there are a couple of routes I can take and rely on the EA hardware (and nearby backups) without a second thought. Pushing on into Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, derated hardware was so common that it would add almost an hour to cover the same distance. Part of this is down to lack of alternatives. It didn't matter to us, as we were on vacation and taking in the journey/picking up supplies while charging. But for anyone trying to minimize journey time, I can see it would become frustrating.

[@marstong]

@@plugandplayEV I really hope that the stations work out for Circle K and convince others companies like Kwik Trip, Speedway, etc. to install DFC at their locations so there is finally some alternatives to single provider at a location. This really seems like the logical place to start in the US and make reliability the first priority, if EA and others were actually regulated by the state weights and measures departments, like gas stations, they would not get away with the poor reliability and the inflated connection charges some providers charge.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks, Steve! I'm really liking this. Having eight fast charging stalls spread across two sites over less than a mile stretch is a nice place to be for an area that was completely lacking fast charging before. I do have to wonder whether the site power itself is a significant factor in turnaround time. In terms of power and throughput, the EA site is three times larger, but I'm not sure whether that justifies taking that much longer to bring online. One other factor worth considering is lease agreements. With Circle K, they are going to bypass that; however, Electrify America still has to work closely with the property managers. Looking forward, it will be interesting to see how that plays out for EVgo's eXtend partnership with Pilot/Flying J because much like Circle K, Pilot/Flying J will own their own equipment.

[@plugandplayEV]

We keep finding new topics! I do think the station building process is a bit of a mystery to the casual observer, who only sees a "Coming Soon" pin on Plugshare or, more visibly, hardware sitting in the ground with no clear activation date. Running through the various aspects of site selection, property agreements, vendor selection, permitting, construction, and activation, with all the logistical and regional variances that come at each stage, would be a detailed but worthy item to cover.

[@nuttfarmgarage6434]

Did my first road trip from east of Superior, Wi to Rochester, Mn in a Bolt and charged at both of these locations, Circle K on the way down, EA on the way home. Perfect location for my needs. Circle K was a better experience as Holiday station is right there. EA was a bit cheaper with the Pass+ app, but a bit more of a walk to Walmart or the local gas station for rest break. I like the Circle K concept at existing gas station locations.

[@plugandplayEV]

I wish I could head back to that Pine City location easily, as it's a good example of full retail vs. convenience store charging at the same exit. I can see plenty of scenarios exactly as you describe, while maybe 20-30% of our travel stops could use a Walmart or larger grocery store to pick up supplies (camping, holiday shopping, groceries on way home from vacation etc.) Both have a role to play, but the Cstore model is probably more applicable to most people's long-distance travel habits.

[@SteveRowe]

I'm still hanging in there with my Bolt, so I'm happy for 50 kW chargers. I hope they don't pull them all up in order to install bigger chargers. I feel bad plugging into a 150+ kW charger when I'm going to be there for 40 minutes charging up to 80% anyway.

[@plugandplayEV]

I think much of the existing hardware will remain in place, but I worry about its upkeep. Perhaps there will be enough traffic from CHAdeMO EV drivers and savvy Bolt owners like yourself, who understand the various levels of power and appropriate stations for it. Eventually, though, I can see that experience degrading even if the 50kW locations remain. Hopefully not for many years yet, though!

[@anthonyc8499]

Circle K has been cranking out stations at a pretty good clip. I’m seeing a new one every week or two. I wonder how their reliability is and if two dispensers (4 cables) is enough. At least it looks like Circle K is building sites with expansion in mind. I’ve become completely disillusioned with EA and will try to use other options if similar or better charging options are available.

[@plugandplayEV]

They still have less than 20 activations in the US at this point, but there are almost 30 in the pipe/on the map. Then factor in Canada, where the parent company is based, and the numbers ramp further still. At the rate of activation, we're looking at at least a multi-regional network presence very soon, if not a true nationwide network for a while. We only have the Dover, NH site I visited to monitor reliability closely. It did go down for a week over the summer, which wasn't great to see. Looks like it was fixed in a little under two weeks and has successful check-ins since then, although one handle is currently down. With EA being so close here in Pine City and both being new, it will be interesting to compare reliability and usage once both are online.

[@markshellard]

That's so many units from EA, The one just opened in Seguin, TX was only 4 units. Such a strange location at a hotel next to the pool.

[@plugandplayEV]

Hotels are always a bit perplexing for DCFC. I guess a CPO with its roots in convenience stores and gas stations will always have the inside track to suitable locations.

[@ab-tf5fl]

@@plugandplayEV When I first heard about the idea of DCFC at hotels, I thought it was crazy, but now, the more I think about it, the more it actually makes some amount of sense. AC charging a hotels was great back in 2015, when a hotel would not expect more than one guest at most to show up in an EV on a given night. But, as the number of EVs increases, it becomes harder and harder for AC charging to scale. Already, it is quite common to show up at a hotel and find its chargers are all full. And if, eventually, all of the hotel's customers are EVs and they all want charging, AC charging would require them to have to set up a charger for nearly every single parking space in the entire parking lot. Alternatively, DC charging offers a much higher level of capacity per charging stall than AC charging and, if necessary, the capacity can be increased in the future by hiring a valet attendant to manage the business of plugging and unplugging cars and moving them in and out of the charging stalls, rather than having the customers do it. DC charging also offers the hotel additional business from motorists passing through the area during during daytime (some of whom might decide to eat meals at the hotel restaurant), while AC chargers would simply sit idle during the daytime.

[@W4rH4wkXX]

i can only imagine what the charging landscape will look like in 2030... but i cant wait, i'll just build a time machine and take a quick peak.... 🤣🤣

[@plugandplayEV]

Take photos, pls 🙏!

[@todkapuz]

I really meant to try a Circle K when I was on my 3600 mile trip, but didn't wind up happening.... they really seem like the right idea if we can get them at most circle-K locations. But yeah, I think the construction element is interesting here. I know we waited ages on a transformer about the size as those used at EA for our new expansion in our MFG plant.. and took forever for just getting the transformer much less the months of permitting. I do have to wonder if we will see more battery boosted systems... they seem to have less power permitting stuff.

[@plugandplayEV]

There's a long rabbit hole to go down with this topic, I think, from hardware selection and sourcing to supply chains, regional permitting differences, and the cohesion of the teams trying to put all these pieces together. There will certainly be no shortage of new stations to compare as we head into 2024! Thanks for the thoughts and insight.

[@TeslaRoadtrips]

wish circle K would step it up. in norway they have pretty amazing DCFC infrastructure. Here in USA, I see them building new gas stations in many places without any DCFC. They have internal data which shows that DCFC drivers tend to spend more money (makes sense since they linger longer).

[@daves1646]

Guessing Circle-K’s objective was to BE easier to fast track. They typically own their site removing neighbor ‘agreements needed’. I wonder if Circle-K looks at what the area power level permitting/red tape break-point is and plan site charging capacity to stay in a faster permitting/approval process?? Does EA still do mostly site-leasing? That EA in Pine City, being near Walmart, looks like that kind of arrangement they’ve done by leasing. Seems Circle-K has their financing ducks in a row. They have the Minimart to attract customers and support install costs, whereas if EA is leasing, they’re in a bind if property owners want to use their land differently at the end of the lease!

[@plugandplayEV]

I think the fact that both sites had hardware in the ground yet the EA still remains "in progress" almost four months later, while the CK site turned it around in less than a month from the same point, is what really sticks out here. I can understand CK getting the permitting and construction pieces completed much more quickly, but the disparity in turning the lights on seems less explicable by site ownership alone. It's possible that EA is still waiting on some internal hardware that we don't see, which would more speak to their respective supply chains, but on a wider level it just looks like EA being less agile than Circle K at every stage.

[@sprockkets]

I wish Kwik Trip would start putting them in too. Kempower would be great. A stupid 115v outlet that they currently do, is a joke

[@plugandplayEV]

I was certainly baffled to see that lonely yet well signposted outlet at a Kwik Trip near the Woodbury EA. Locals explained that they believe it was added for employee PHEV charging, which makes a bit more sense, but it doesn't exactly scream "we support EVs" to the casual observer!

[@DouginaBoxster]

We have a new EA location by us that broke ground in May and still isn't open (as of mid-September).

[@plugandplayEV]

This EA broke ground in late 2022/early 2023, it looks like, but didn't get the hardware on site until July due to supply chain constraints (according to a spokesperson). The two-three month gap to activating them is still intriguing, though not out of line with sites we've monitored here on the East Coast

[@DouginaBoxster]

@@plugandplayEV yeah I should've clarified...our site looked "done" as early as June...July for sure. Weird...

[@plugandplayEV]

@@DouginaBoxsterAh, gotcha. Yep, that really starts to grind for those who drive past a lot... always feels like such a waste! Hope it lights up soon.

[@thenetworkarchitectchannel]

Cool vid. I think private enterprise will win every time over companies that are stifled in their inception from government bureaucracy like EA. The motive is to attract customers. In the case of CirK so they will buy pink doughnuts & coffee while their car charges. Necessity being the mother of invention, brevity rules the day. Thx for the vid. I enjoyed watching.

[@plugandplayEV]

Thanks! I guess there's still some shaking out to go, as the faster option here is actually the one that offers a sit-down meal choice, while the less powerful Circle K option is more of a quick-stop amenity. It will be spot on at 180kW solo, but if you're banking on 15-20 minutes and someone plugs into the same dispenser, I can see plans being dashed as faster charging EVs become the norm.

[@Jeddin]

People in the know, know who is behind the Circle K deployment and we know the passion he has for EV charging . Who is behind the EA deployment? Are they passionate about EV and increasing EV adoption or are they people who answered an indeed posting and are concerned about what time they get out of work tonight and what they are doing next weekend.

[@plugandplayEV]

The service technicians and team members I've spoken to at Electrify America in the past have all been extremely passionate about developing infrastructure... the wider team and support they get from above is where the rubber really meets the road. We see the presence of Circle K in key markets across the pond and clearly the brand as a whole sees EVs as the future of their main business: selling snacks and on-the-go items to travelers. The reality here, however, is that no individual provider is single-handedly going to make it happen (not even Tesla). It's all hands to the pump, and if Electrify America isn't going to keep up with the workload, there are plenty of upcoming public CPOs who will gladly take its place.