Road Trip: Unfiltered Truth About Fast Charging Electrify America vs. Tesla

[@bluebiplane]

Excellent comparison video. Succinct and real life practical info. This year I 'stepped out' and did a round trip Maryland to Austin TX and Maryland to Cape Canaveral trip. Other trips in previous years were to Cleveland, Troy NY, Myrtle Beach SC. 2018 Model 3. We never traveled with the 2012 or 2016 LEAFs as the non-Tesla networks were just not mature enough.

[@paulshoover]

Agree about the leaf. We have a Leaf also and it's perfect for around town. Would in no way travel beyond its range. Thanks fir the kind words and glad it hit the marl.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@paulshoover I just saw a report via "Electrified" on KZbin showing a rapid deployment Supercharger unit bring deployed in Canada. 4 chargers and a power unit, all on the same Concrete base, craned in one operation. This is going to be an "interesting" year in terms of Tesla expansion.

[@paulshoover]

@@rogerstarkey5390 For sure - the more we have around us the better the EV network will be.

[@brandenflasch]

If I was in a Tesla and I wasn’t on a time crunch, I would probably use EA for the bit of “adventure” and and cost savings, but if I had a time crunch at all, it would be Superchargers the whole way.

[@paulshoover]

Nice!

[@bmoore1957]

The CCS gives you option for fast charging in remote areas without Superchargers, example is the Yukon, Northern BC, and Vancouver Island. We have taken several long road trips with a Model Y, and Superchargers are great method for charging.

[@paulshoover]

Agree, just read an article that CCS in Canada has better reliability than that of what we have in thr US.

[@natehoy6924]

Agree, this is exactly why we bought our CCS adapter. We want to travel to parts of Canada like Nova Scotia and Gaspe (because these are easy trips from Maine) and there just isn't enough Supercharger infrastructure to make it viable. The CCS may only be 50kW, but I've road tripped in a Chevy Bolt - I know how to be patient. LOL

[@genxin9636]

Thanks for your efforts and charts. I'm thinking of a trip from Houston to Chicago in my 2020 Model Y.

[@paulshoover]

Do it! More of us who get out the better we get.

[@marcotokoku1898]

great video, the only time I use EA is to park at Walmart where has EA and use the charging time for shopping and food

[@paulshoover]

Same here

[@karengeyman5562]

Thank you for a wonderful breakdown…this is what I needed living in Indiana and many vacations to WDW each year.

[@paulshoover]

Wonderful! Enjoy your magical trips and road trips south!

[@allenbaylus1912]

we do a drive from MD to ME every summer - normally 1 or 2 gas breaks needed but most of teh driving is overnight so the kids do not need to stretch their legs. 10 hour drive plus 2 fuel stops (MA Turnpike and off I95 in ME) puts us at 660 miles and in under 11 hours but I normally take a longer rout to avoid the NYC traffic area which is 723 miles and 11 hours (under 12 hours with fueling stops). Running the same (I95 Rout) changes me from 11 hours to over 13 hours any my bypass runs more then 15 hours. This is using a M3 Long Range for computing.

[@sribashdey]

Very good and thorough analysis. Thank you.

[@paulshoover]

Glad it was helpful!

[@brandenflasch]

Great video. Good to see as close to an apples to apples comparison as possible. Did you primarily charge in time based or kWh billing states?

[@paulshoover]

Most all were time based. Since my last road trip it felt like all switched to time vs. Amount dispensed. It comes out to be the same however in the case of Tesla charge times are way down. In my experience.

[@chriswestenskow5202]

I would advocate that the "free charging" that come with new cars should not be free if you are within 35 miles of your home address. Congestion at some Superchargers is becoming a big concern, but the Tesla navigation being smart enough to adjust to avoid the congested stations is great.

[@paulshoover]

I agree a distance buffer would greatly make it such for travel vs. Just getting your free charging.

[@happyhippo1710]

@Paulshoover I disagree. I do not have a home charger and my building is not planning on getting one in 2023 yet. SC is only 2 miles away and I need it to charge as well as level 2 chargers.

[@paulshoover]

@@happyhippo1710 good point there is no easy answer.

[@chriswestenskow5202]

@@happyhippo1710 You’re right, a distance based limitation is likely too simple and probably wouldn’t have the desired outcome. I do see that time variable (peak / off-peak etc.) pricing is starting to be rolled out at many fast chargers and that makes sense. I wonder if a combination of proximity to home and off-peak or low congestion time windows could be used to steer free charging towards times and places where it would not compound congestion at stations. Of course all of this is likely just theoretical speculation as I don’t think bundling free charging with new EVs is likely to change and the only thing that is likely to shift charging behavior is inconvenience, which none of us wants, but seems to be inevitable as EV sales are quickly surpassing charging infrastructure at the moment. The trend I’m seeing that is somewhat of a concern is people buying EVs and just driving them like ICE vehicles, using fast chargers like gas stations. Not that I see this as an invalid use-case, but just that for me, a huge part of the joy of owning and driving an EV is the “full tank” every morning :-)

[@GROGU123]

Your proposal would rule out apartment dwellers from buying EV’s.

[@4782522]

Great video Paul! We are going to take our 2023 ID. 4 to Gatlinburg this weekend for its first "mini" road trip. I can make it with 1 stop pretty east but I am going to try out 3 of the EA chargers along the way just so I know that my wife would be ok visiting her mom. Tesla is a road trip beast for sure! We took our MY from Nashville to Hilton Head for the last 2 years and the first time was 4 stops but last year since they added a SC in McDonough GA we were able to do 3 stops very easily. Totally agree that EA has got to do something to make it reliable. 60% is terrible! Especially vs 100%. Over the last going on 3 years we have only had one problem with a tesla charger unit. Moved to the next one and it was fine. thats it! 99% relaibility since we have owned the car. Major advantage for the tesla. Holding my breath for the ID. 4 this weekend! HAHAHA

[@paulshoover]

Congratulations on the ID.4. EV road tripping is a blast. On the bleeding edge things happen but we are in for brighter days.

[@KenniqueReynolds]

When EA stations say they will be complimentary don’t activate from the app. Just plug in otherwise it gets confused and will give an error.

[@paulshoover]

Good to know. That's what I did at the last stop and it still would not activate.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

The CCS adapter is great for unserviced areas especially here in BC or Alberta Canada where superchargers are not all over.

[@paulshoover]

I've heard that. Good to have options for sure.

[@radiioman46]

Excellent video comparing gas vs EA vs tesla! But, for me, I will only do about two 7 day road trips a year, and assuming 4 travel days per trip, that means out of 365 days, I will only be on a road trip for 8 days. That is 2 per cent of my driving in an EV for road trips. That means my EV is used for 98% of the year doing the regular driving that I do each day, or each week. I'm not going to fuss over Tesla (more expensive) vs other EVs (can be as expensive) for something I will only do 2% of the time. So, I chose my EV in favor of the 98% and ignored the 2%. Great points though and good to know for those that do want to choose between gas, Tesla or other EVs. One last point: Even at a 60% efficiency you still made the trip using EA. You were not stranded. So that's a plus, in some strange manner.

[@paulshoover]

Thanks for the great comments. I agree - DC fast charging is such a small part of life its hard to really worry about it. Just wanted to put them both head to head. What time of EV do you drive?

[@radiioman46]

@@paulshoover I drive the IoniQ 5 SE which will do road trips with a little help from EA(lol), but for driving in Houston, it's simply amazing. I have a level 2 Grizzley Classic, and solar panels on the house, so, I almost feel guilty for having it so easy over my friends that won't jump in the pool and give it a try. This year I drove to Nashville and Denver which took 4 days round trip for each. And I got charged at every stop, so I didn't have any complaints what do ever. I ran into a lady driving the Ford Lightning, and she looked like she was having trouble charging, and come to find out she was having her car repaired, and they loaned her this EV truck, and she knew nothing about driving EVs. I thought that was a cruel thing to pull on a customer. Anway, enjoy your videos and you're doing a great job. keep up the good work!

[@paulshoover]

@@radiioman46 congratulations! The ionic is slick! I would agree the lightning would be cruel if you had no idea about a EV....

[@581rma]

Excellent video. I’ve taken 3 separate long road trips with our Tesla model 3 from NJ to Jacksonville FL. Cleveland OH and Toronto CA. With 0 issues Was thinking of taking my Wife’s Ioniq 5 to take advantage of free charging on our Late Dec trip to Miami area but will stay with taking the model 3

[@paulshoover]

Thanks for the nice words. Think thats wise. EA works (mostly). The ionic is a charging beast! Enjoy EV road tripping.

[@581rma]

@@paulshoover also when it Tesla’s super charging Network, they’re always placed near convenience stores that are open 24 x 7. I don’t know what is a ElectrifyAmerica but they seem to be locate most of their locations in Walmarts or shopping malls and some of those locations to close by 11pm

[@paulshoover]

@@581rma that has been my experience.

[@jimpaggi3282]

Would have liked seeing your stops! Film them next time!

[@paulshoover]

I filmed the trip down and back up. Here is the link to the Playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLy3IvkMgorquCltfwp84e11cKW3FN_kzt

[@raymck2115]

Tesla very expensive, but the network is so good. to be fair they needs to pay for their amazing network, In the uk its 48 x 0.67 pence (cost in pence per kW) = £32.16, so I think about 16 p to 18 p per mile verse diesel at current prices of £7.17 per imperial gallon at 38 miles per gallon, so roughly about 19 pence per mile. Home charging at night is still the most cost effective way to run a EV. Great video learnt load of great info.

[@paulshoover]

With recent price drops it's better. Still only think it makes sense if/when a nee vehicle is needed. Otherwise just rock your ICE.

[@barryredman2803]

Imagine this headline, “Family Freezes to Death at Montana Electrify America.”

[@paulshoover]

Lol!

[@jb3246]

I'm curious how the end to end trip time would compare. ICE fuels up faster than an EV charges. But you can't walk over to the nearby restaurant and grab a meal and/or use the rest room while it fills up. You can charge an EV while you are doing other things where an ICE would just spend in a parking lot. You can arrive much sooner in an ICE if you keep your stops to a minimum and eat in the car while driving. But that isn't always possible, especially with kids (or most people).

[@paulshoover]

I've wondered that myself. Only way would be to get someone else to travel same time and then see who arrives first. A few ground rules such as speed limits etc. I like the ability to plug in, leave, and go about other stuff. I think it does make things easier and provides more freedom. If anyone wants to do a ICE comparison video around a route I'd be game. MKBHD did one a year ago that provides a good tesla, ford mustang Mach-e, vs. Audi SUV (ICE). The results surprised me.

[@Bum_Hip]

I use EA often. I COULD charge at home (other than road trips) instead, but my Ioniq 5 as well as other Kia, and Genesis EV’s come with 2 years free charging. What would you do if you had that option?

[@paulshoover]

I would like a geo fence along with idle fees imposed for this using their "free" charging. This impedes those who are traveling and are in need. Again this is just an idea. There may be other/better ones.

[@Bum_Hip]

@@paulshoover I should clarify. We have free sessions of 30 minutes or less. After 10 minutes of being plugged in and not charging, we are charged an idling fee of 40 cents/minute.

[@njguy2]

I do the same thing with my EQS but I charge at off peak times and have never blocked someone from using a charger. I get two years free at EA, so why not take advantage of that?

[@paulshoover]

@@njguy2 no issue with free charging. I think it should be geofenced around home 40 miles +/- so only able to use when on road trips. Too many people blocking chargers charging 80-100% or idling while people road tripping need to charge cannot get access. Again pros and cons to any approach so not really sure anything should/will happen.

[@evtrekker1317]

I would use any charger convenient to me. As I did traveling from AK to TX and back, especially if it is free.

[@paulshoover]

Especially with the lack along certain routes. Will be nice when they are listed in the Tesla navigation. Today you have to add them manually and hope a supercharger is near so the car will precondition.

[@bcar1ify]

This is why Tesla will continue to dominate. Their superchargers are second to no one. It’s all factored into the price of the car.

[@paulshoover]

Could not agree more.

[@Qrail]

Great attention to detail. For the additional $65, you gained 2 hours. Supercharger over EA. Or, you could say that the EA charger price of $37 is about 1/4 of the ICE price. But you lose 2 hours to a Tesla driver. I did not see an average speed. Thanks. And Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you and yours. Part 2. What would I do? I am heading out for my holiday trip. I intend to use ChargePoint at my first stop, I will use the free city charger at my second stop, and charge at home at my third stop. 820 mile trip (one way) that will take me 13 hours to drive, and 2 hours to recharge. It will cost me $1.85 to charge, and I will use 16 gallons of gas at $5 per gal. ($80) 8 gallons in Tehachapi, and 8 gallons in Parker. I won’t drive faster than 75 mph, for best economy…. I will use my Audi e-tron hybrid. I expect to get 51 mpg, and use 24 kWh of electric. Since this is a regular routine, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

[@paulshoover]

Nice the Audi is a great road tripping car. Sounds like a great trip, enjoy and Merry Christmas to you also!

[@Qrail]

@@paulshoover I am going to make a video when I leave in a few days. I don’t know how to post it, but that will be another adventure.

[@IndigenousEarthling101]

It looks like most charging networks other than Tesla are still figuring out their business models. Most only make money from charging, lose money on repairs, and are thus incentivized to minimize repair expenses, leading to poor states of repair and network reliability. Tesla's charging stations make money from charging, battery energy arbitrage, in some cases grid supply with solar, and additional car sales attributable to charging network reliability. Thus Tesla is incentivized to maintain excellent repair status and reliability. This mirrors the smartphone industry in which the most reliable communication network providers (e.g., Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T) also sell mobile phones that use their network. Hopefully other charging network OEMs will affiliate with automakers to provide more business incentives for better charging network reliability.

[@paulshoover]

Great insights and agree that it's like the early days like when cell phones first rolled out. Thanks for the comments and insights!

[@skyemalcolm]

Hard to separate the charging network from the navigation software. Unless the Tesla built in navigation software allows you to specify ditching the SC network for the EA network. A more apples to apples comparison would be to use the same software to plan the stops. Say use ABRP to plan both trips. Or maybe use ABRP for EA and Tesla Software for the SC network. Not to take anything away from the massive issues of reliability you will absolutely find at the average EA station. But just to point out that ABRP’s first purpose is to find the right places to stop and it’s second purpose is to tell you an optimal charge percentage (obviously both of these are just like Tesla). Oh and probably there’s no way to do a true apples to apples. I say that because unless you have EA and SC right next to each other you’re talking a different spacing on each network. Some EA gaps between stations are 80 miles, some are 120 miles and those differences affect how deep you start charging, and affect how up into the pack you must Charger to just I bridge each gap between chargers. Hopefully that makes sense and I realize I’m nit picking. This is a great real world video! Oh and just for reference I have put 20k miles on an EV6 since April 2022. Love the car. Love charging it when I happen to hit a reliable charger. On the way from Ohio to Arizona in October it took me 2 1/2 days vs doing it in 2 to 3 days previously in fossil cars. On the way back it also took 2 1/2 days but since I’d already been through the same EA sites I would plug right into the proper charger and I had 95% reliability first charges that way. Finally your comment about Walmarts hit home for me. I actually don’t get bothered by the EA station’s reliability so much as having to stroll around Walmart as you say. It’s a really depressing vibe after a while. Of the 17 stops from Ohio to Arizona 10 were Walmarts but it felt I stopped at every single one in all those states. That’s actually my primary reason I’m looking forward to more options out there as we look out a year or two. EVgo and GM are set to put in fast chargers all along the route I took but they’ll be at Flying J and Pilot truck stops which will all be closer to the highway and have quick in and out potential and not mingling with the Walmart folk. Love love love this content. Great stuff and wish you happy electric motoring and to all your followers as well!

[@paulshoover]

@skyemalcolm - you bring up some really great points. I think the furthest SC and EA spacing was 20 miles (London, KY and Williamsburg, KY) the rest were within 5-7 miles on I-75. Understand that elsewhere this may not be the case. I like the idea of using ABRP to plan all stops both SC and EA. I have a feeling that I'll be doing a follow-up soon to see if/how things have changed. I too am excited to see more stops not at Walmart for a variety of reasons. Thanks for the great insights, comments, and feedback. It really helps me to improve and focus on what others are interested in. Make it a great one today! -Paul

[@skyemalcolm]

@@paulshoover Thank you for bringing this great example of a real world trip and breaking down the pluses and minuses of each network. I for instance had no real sense that SC was just about on par with fossil fueling costs. I knew it’s “expensive” but it hadn’t occurred to me to compare it since I just don’t have access to it so it’s just a theoretical question at the moment. Actually according to some numbers I ran on road tripping and vehicles I’d actually owned with the real world fuel economy they returned, EA with the EV6 was just about equal to gas with a Honda Clarity PHEV. And it was much cheaper than using an Honda Odyssey or an Acura TSX Wagon, all of which I road tripped to Arizona from Ohio over the years. And actually to be fair to EA, they were affordable, it was actually a stop in New Mexico at a Francis Energy charger that blew the charging budget, it was something like $0.79/kWh vs EA at $0.31/kWh. That one Francis charger accounted for $40 of a $180 charging bill for those 1900 miles. And keep in mind those of us driving cars that have Apple CarPlay or Android Auto may enjoy a pretty highly integrated experience with an app like ABRP, which does indeed have increasingly good performance in that regard. Like any software you’ll find bugs and if you look at the video I posted from October the linkage of SOC was occasionally buggy then. But with their latest update about 2 weeks ago I find the connection rock solid and at least on some recent short trips on the highway from 80% SOC to 40% SOC ABRP is nailing the destination SOC to within a percent or even hitting the exact percentage. I really need to make an update to some of what they’re achieving. I’m also doing this with some extra “configurations” they call it to the car. I’m currently letting ABRP learn the EV6 consumption with a roof rack. It only took it 4 drives of 35 miles to really hone in on it. And I’m going to add a big Thule roof box and again train it to learn that as a new roof box plus roof rack configuration so that if I need to do some big road trips with that on there I can have a great baseline.

[@douglasalanthompson]

Would try trip again with an ev6

[@shou635]

I have driven gas cars and also own a Tesla Model S 2017 (bought new) with free unlimited supercharging. I have taken my Model S through the Rockies, east coast, Canada including Nova Scotia. No issues with teslas network. And no way will I take a gas car road trip if I can take my Model S. I love taking my Tesla on road trips. The autopilot (FSD) and the free fuel is also a bonus. It doesn’t charge as fast as the new versions of teslas but fast enough for me. I don’t need to cannonball run my trips. I time it with breaks so I can eat, stretch.. etc. much more enjoyable. Tesla’s supercharger network is wonderful. Can see the status of the chargers, what amenities are around it and get real time updates via the app. Yes, there are some decent other EVs out there but if one wants to actually USE their EV for more than just a daily driver, Tesla is the only option. The whole ecosystem works very well.

[@paulshoover]

So true! Agree about driving a non-tesla. The AP/FSD is epic and takes a huge amount of stress out of the commute.

[@kyleb8117]

I've had an EV for about 11 months now (2015 Leaf S) and my limited experience (mostly due to the range of the car) is still full of charging station issues. I think the reliability has been near 60% as it has been for you, or maybe lower? Thankfully, in every case of chargers not working, I've had a way out. One time, I even desperately used a hotel's charger at $0.50/kWh to slowly get myself to 20% and get to the nearest fast charger (it was a level 2 J1772 charger). My most recent one, I had a fast charger that had two units. The right unit's touch screen didn't work and I didn't have a member card to swipe. The left one had a barely functioning touch screen and after a LOT of hassle, I got my member number typed in only to get it to fail connecting and ask me to call a 1-888 number. I call and the guy takes multiple times of saying the city, zip code, cross streets, business name....to finally tell me that he can't find it in their network, so he can't help me. He tells me to contact the business owner (...a grocery store...) to fix it, and when I tell him I don't have enough charge to get to another fast charger, he tells me to have my car towed. Thanks... Thankfully, a friendly Leaf owner uses their member card on it and BAM, it works fine. It was a free session, so they let me use it. When I went to tell management at the store, they didn't know what I was talking about and wrote a note down that said "Check car charger" and promised it'd get to someone that knows. Cool... (I now have a membership card, so hopefully I won't have this issue at that charger again.) Whenever I do get my second EV, I feel like I want to go Tesla. Yes, it's overpriced. Yes, their customer service sucks. Sure, it'll probably have flaws I have to send it in to the shop for because of lazy build quality. However, I want that charge network reliability. If I'm going to road trip, I don't want stuff happening like what regularly happens to me. I also want the cool features like sentry mode and actually turning on/off as I get in/leave. Maybe I'll get lucky and a 2021+ Model 3 will be reasonably priced in a few years whenever I'm in the market for a new EV. With how reliable they are, I'm probably screwed on finding a good deal, but I have high hopes. Maybe in a few years the network will be better for non-Teslas or maybe there will finally be a car that can compete and be reasonably priced that I'm interested in. Who knows what the future holds.

[@paulshoover]

Really well documented experience with you Leaf. With all those issues I too would opt for a tesla. I love the experience you had where both the network and grocery store saying "not my fault" call someone else.... nuts. Hang in there the bleeding edge had its issues but we always get there first! The leaf is not ready for long distance roadtrips. Around town, yes. Also wish there was a ccs adapter so we would not be reliant on CHadamo chargers for DC fast charging.

[@kyleb8117]

@@paulshoover It can get crazy too, since you have so many different companies making these charging stations. I have four different apps for charging my car (EA, EVCS, Blink, and Charge-Point) and I haven't driven further than a couple hours from home. lol I forgot to mention in my comment how much I love that you did your trip 50/50 with EA/Tesla. So cool to see the stats on it and it's such a unique idea. I greatly appreciated the breakdown and experiences. It'd be really interesting to see more people do that with their Tesla, though I'd bet their experiences are going to be along the same lines. Always cool to see, as a person that's dreaming about having a nicer EV in the future.

[@paulshoover]

@kyleb8117 the different apps, accounts, login, etc is nuts. One plus on the app is you do not get your credit card skimmed (happened to me 2x) like at gas stations. Thanks for the feedback and kind words. Just trying to help other explore what is possible with this new tech. Make it a good one today!

[@GROGU123]

If the united states adopted the NACS plug proposed by tesla, then Tesla said their goal is to open their network to all EV’s like they do in europe. Then you would just need an adapter for your Leaf.

[@kyleb8117]

@@GROGU123 That would be AMAZING!

[@markrichards9792]

Since I drive a Hyundai Ioniq 5 I can't use Tesla super chargers. I will use whatever CCS chargers are available

[@paulshoover]

Congratulations on the Hyundai. That's a terrific EV

[@galvinstanley3235]

CCS charging is going to be available in one year at all Tesla chargers,Tesla decided to open the charger's to non Tesla cars.

[@galvinstanley3235]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJXYnK2mh5ySl9E

[@MajorPickleSwag]

Great video. I think I'm gonna just run my gas vehicles to the ground before I buy an EV. Hopefully by then EA's reliability will improve and Apple Carplay and Android Auto will fully takeover the operating systems for most modern vehicles. This second point is especially important for non-Tesla vehicles because when people go on long trips Apple/Google Maps will know when the vehicle needs to charge/refuel and automatically redirect to the nearest (and hopefully working) charging/gas station.

[@paulshoover]

Agree, don't change till you need to.

[@techyjames1945]

While I have a 2021 Model Y I don’t have the required hardware to use Adapter to use Electrify America. Otherwise I would try them since they are considerably cheaper than Teslas Supercharger

[@paulshoover]

Next year you should be able to get the hardware to ccs charge installed by tesla. Between the ccs hardware and adapter you would probably be better to just use tesla. You could get a lot of electricity for the upfront costs required. However it's good to have options.

[@ronwolff1507]

When you say, at the end, that it would take 850 minutes to drive the trip in a gas car, you are forgetting to add time for re-fueling and bathroom breaks. (I am assuming your Lexus does not have a 360 gal gas tank, and that the humans in the car do not have 36 hour bladders.)

[@ronwolff1507]

Delete my comment. I looked again and see you did add stops in the gas calculations. Sorry.

[@paulshoover]

My assumption is that during the trip one would fuel and stop at the same time. I would add 7 stops at 10 minutes. Taking the time to 950. I would have the same issue with the bladder. 😆

[@njguy2]

If you pay for an EA membership the cost per kwh is only $0.31 which is probably much less than you would pay at a supercharger. Even at full price it is .43 which is probably still competitive.

[@paulshoover]

Correct. This included me joining ea premium. These were the rates with the monthly membership.

[@jfrog5440]

I am conflicted. Advice? Get a Tesla and take a big risk dealing with quality and service issues. Or get another great non Tesla EV (which I would prefer) and deal with a barely functioning charging network. I frequently take trips more than 280mi but less that 400. Any input is appreciated.

[@paulshoover]

Don't overthink it. Get what you want. If road trips are in the future for this car a couple things. 1. It will take longer on the trip than a gas car. 2. The trip will be no cheaper than a gas car. 3. Tesla network works all the time and EA works most of the time. 4. The type of car determines how fast it will dc fast charge so if road tripping get one that charges fast. 5. Efficiency of the car matters so get one that uses less electricity to drive around. Mpge from the epa is a good guide. Higher number better just like a gas car with MPG. As I demonstrated it does work, not as easily as tesla but it can & does charge. Get what is in your budget and my advice would to get one if road tripping that fast charges at a fast rate. Leaf and bolt do not. Plenty of articles out about which ones charge 20-80% in "X" amount of time. Tesla will be around 15 minutes to get 200 miles of range for context. What EV are you thinking about?

[@jfrog5440]

@@paulshoover Thank you for the response. I am still thinking if the car would be for just around town or both town and trips. If around just around town it would be the Bolt EUV and we would use the other car for trips. If it's for both town and trip, I was thinking Polestar-2, ID4, or Ioniq 5. It has to seat 5 people. The I5 is the most reliable of the 3 choices but is at top of budget. I am also looking at used model Ys if we can't find something. Thank you.

[@paulshoover]

@jfrog5447 some nice options you are looking at. Check the bolt reliability, I think consumer reports listed it as less reliable. Same with the id4. The used Ys have come down but are still expensive. Either way I'm sure you'll enjoy a ev. I would t be going back.

[@jfrog5440]

@@paulshoover Thank you. The ID4 is almost perfect, but they are really glitchy.

[@paulshoover]

@jfrog5447 nothing is perfect for sure. Even the all mighty Tesla is not listed as reliable by consumer reports. I've had zero issues in 25k miles since I purchased new in Feb. 2022. I'm under no illusion that something will go wrong.l but so far it's been smooth sailing.

[@roxter299roxter7]

So the cost saving, if you just used Tesla would have been $118. Plus you get the advantage of Autopilot.

[@paulshoover]

correct - if using EA vs. Tesla SC.

[@jimrkelly]

I'm confused. Back of the napkin math makes your cost per kWh for EA 14 cents. At the time of your posting EA was charging (average) 48 cents/kWh and with the member price at 31 cents/kWh. Your numbers indicate the cost from a Tesla Supercharger to be 45 cents/ kWh but the National average price is around 28 Cents/kWh. All that being said the Tesla experience is much more elegant and you eliminate charging anxiety.

[@paulshoover]

Your math is likely nice. EA gave us some free charging. That's said mid 60% reliability I'd say it's a wash.

[@twistedwhiskers8776]

Why did you get complementary sessions for a Tesla?

[@paulshoover]

They arr free time to time. No reason I can point too.

[@twistedwhiskers8776]

@@paulshoover what is the cost per kilowatt hour when you are paying on electrify America versus Tesla

[@paulshoover]

@@twistedwhiskers8776 I used the EA Pass at $5 per month. Avg. cost was .21 per KWH at the time of filming. Tesla was about .35 - .41 per KWH. Without the EA pass they are virtually identical. Time and realiability are traded for sometimes cheaper rates. That said the difference is not worth it with EA's poor charging stations.

[@3030hp]

Thanks.

[@paulshoover]

You're welcome

[@spuddy4063]

Electrify America needs to go park off to the side of a dirt patch somewhere. TESLA Superchargers are noteworthy and exceptional. I hope that they qualify for the $4 Billion incentive from the USA to push their network to the next level.

[@paulshoover]

So true. Reports of new EA stations inoperable due to cold temps... nuts in this day and age.

[@spuddy4063]

@@paulshoover exactly it is imperative that the USA congress recognize an AMERICAN company over one that was awarded to keep their network over a "DIESELGATE" cheating event and that Electrify America should not be rewarded even more as the penalty for the Cheating already allows VW to keep their network. Why should EA be allowed to make even more funding from cheating on emissions. In my opinion TESLA deserves the incentive because their Network is a world above in reliability and they Are AMERICAN period.

[@paulshoover]

@@spuddy4063 so true!

[@galvinstanley3235]

Tesla can make great chargers,why is it so hard for the other charging companies to get it right?

[@paulshoover]

So true

[@johnfritz2944]

Electrify America sucks dude. Way over priced per kilowatt hour and not reliable at all.

[@paulshoover]

I think the reliability is what lets it down. I found pricing pretty good. However I am a "N" of 1 so take it with a grain of salt. Likely many others have different experience.

[@notwhoyouthink666]

Comparing Tesla to a Lexus 😂😂😂

[@paulshoover]

It's what I had so it's my context.

[@harryvelez489]

I love you very very informal but electric cars but you know what to be easily to feel my tank one time and keep on going to stop to go and wait half hour and I will 2 hours to get electricity in with my money when the car could do 500 miles and electricity then I buy one

[@paulshoover]

Agree, the lucid air goes about that range. Expensive for sure. I know what you mean regarding the desire for more range. That said I do not miss it as I try to stop every 2-3 hours which is when I need to charge. So for me it's a 2 for 1 deal. EVs are not for everyone and they still have a ways to go. Make it a great one today.

[@shou635]

Vast majority of Tesla owners do not get range anxiety. Overblown concern for Tesla. But for other EVs, yes I’d be concerned due to the other crappy charging networks.

[@paulshoover]

Understand your point, it's definitely a different way of traveling. For 99% of folks who drive less than 40 miles per day evs make sense as you just charge at home. In the same way you charge your cell phone (at night while you sleep). When traveling my experience is I want to stop every 2-3 hours and in doing so I time with supercharging stops and that's enough for me. It really does not add much time in my experience but it's not for everyone. If using non-tesla chargers I would think twice if road tripping is thr main thing you do. The charging network is less than optimal. Not looking to convert just inform. To each his/her own.