Circuit Breaker Panel Problem - arcing between busbar and breaker - heating and melting plastic

[@Shadowhawk417]

I have a Westinghouse 200 amp breaker panel box that is about 9 years old that has started with a faint crackling noise. This video was helpful to me because I was not aware about the loose rear tabs on breakers causing a problem. But then again I am not an electrician. Thanks

[@juliespark3428]

The tutorials help the layman understand more clearly...enough to call an electrician.

[@benevolentautore4463]

I know this is an old video, but for those just searching, his root problem may have been overspray from the painters in the house. Notice the paint splatter on the actual breakers. This happened to me and caused bad connections between the breakers and bus. Three of my breakers with equipment that frequently started and stopped arced due to the poor contact.

[@theredtexan]

i have a. breaker that cuts out a lot i m gonna check for paint.

[@daniverson9410]

I have a 20+ year old I.T.E. brand 200 amp panel in my cabin. It's located in my bedroom. I was walking through the room after I started my coffee maker when I suddenly heard arching and popping sounds coming from inside it. Pretty scary. I called an electrician and he came over and took off the cover and had me started the coffee again. He couldn't believe it and pulled the breaker and found a Square D 20 amp breaker that fit into the panel. The old breaker showed burn marks on it and smelled. He said I got it before it damaged the panel. Glad I found your video, if I had seen it before calling the electrician I would've fixed it myself and saved myself a $150 service call.

[@DBTNVideo]

Glad to hear it worked out ok. The smell will get your attention!

[@rservicemaint01]

I have many years experience. This appears to be a lose connection on the A/C breaker that caused the issue. The A/C would come on and the connection where the breaker slides on to the bus bar was lose and arced, as time goes on the situation gets worse because of the arc marks. I don't think this is a manufacturer issue but rather an isolated breaker issue. Glad he found it though.

[@np1000]

I had the exact same problem. However mine was with what’s called a space saver breaker. My air handler was tied into the 2 30amp breakers in the middle and had 2 15amp running my bedroom circuit and other circuit on the ends. I’m the original owner and bought the house new. We’ve been in it 20 years and suddenly our bedroom lights would flicker occasionally and I noticed it would happen when the air handler came on. Upon inspecting the issue I found the same thing you did. I had extra spaces so ordered a new breaker and was gonna move the breaker down. When I went to remove the wires from the breaker, I found the electrician had missed the wire. The wire was wedged between the breaker tie down screw and the breakers plastic barely making contact. That additional resistance over 20 years eventually caused the breaker to melt the tab.

[@Darkmagaa]

This type of damage is not too uncommon. I see it a lot actually. I don't recommend that you change the whole panel because of it though that's a little over kill. Unless you have the money its not really worth it. You could clean up the buss bars with a wire brush or sand paper. (turn off power of course). If you have room relocate the breakers but put in spares where you experienced the problem so you don't have open spaces. id only replace it if your panel is massively burnt or corroded.

[@kdewitt41]

I agree. I've done that too. To this day everything still works fine.

[@DBTNVideo]

Thanks for the comment. I am no electrician, but it seems common practice to have breakers of different amps on the same panel - like you say - textbook says OK. Absolutely agree about the heating. Aside from electricians, how many homeowners ever think about inspecting a breaker box? You just assume it is fine like you do the wires and the outlets. This was a Westinghouse (now Eaton) box.

[@robertfrapples2472]

I have recently had several Eaton brand breakers burn like that in my box. The main breaker was even fried. Replacing today with a Siemens load center.

[@dkeith45]

I just had an interesting thought watching this vid. It's something I've seen but never really connected with before. When you buy new breakers, the slot on the breaker that contacts the buss on the panel has a noticeable spot of grease in it. And I've seen tubes of electrical grease for sale at the big box stores. Perhaps every time we remove a breaker, we need to regrease the slot? Maybe the electrical grease helps with good contact of the breaker to the buss?

[@maynardjohnson3313]

The grease is there to prevent corosion. What you want is good metal to metal contact and good springy metal conductors. George Westinghouse was good ethical man but the board of directors of Westinghouse of the early 90's or Eaton today I can't speak for. It sure looks like shoddy manufacturing.

[@simplytrolling6869]

@@maynardjohnson3313 George was a hell of a guy! He and I went to different schools together all the way through college.

[@CaptVideo]

Thanks for the comment. Why the panel and breakers were fine for 20 years and then malfunctioned is a bit of a mystery because the environment is an interior workroom without undue moisture. As to using the right breakers for the panel, I totally agree. I assume that the installing electrician knew what he was doing.

[@3beltwesty]

Continued. Later I noticed an odd arcing sound in the subpanel in the garage. The 20 amp single pole breaker "ate" the lug on the breaker box. Once one is drawing more current with a poor connection it gets hot. This heat then softens the metal tabs on the breaker that contact the buss bar. This "feeds" the destruction. The breakers metal fingers that contact the buss bar are now looser. This adds resistance and more heat thus the problem worsens and the buss bar is ruined.

[@DBTNVideo]

More comment: Your old breakers might not be useable on a new panel - mine weren't. That's something my electrician told me. In addition, you have to pull the meter to cut the power to the panel which requires the utility company to do it and then to inspect the work before reconnecting the meter. In short, replacement is a job for a professional. What you risk for personal safety and property damage is way too much in my book for doing it yourself and I'm a DIY guy..

[@HarryDavis-df2uy]

Back in 1992, I installed a Siemens #G3040MB1200, Interior 200a - 40 circuit, all 110v 12g copper w/20a brkrs and 220v w/typical demand service for A/C, H2O Heater, Motors etc of 20a-60a. The panel spontaneously started arcing stabs on my dbl pole brkrs (dps). Three years ago I just happened to be next to the panel box when a big pump motor started and I heard the arcing. I tripped it off and snatched it out before any damage was done to busbar. Now, suddenly in the past 3 days it has consumed 3 more breakers- a 20asp, a 30adp and a 60adp. It's all 30 years old, when I rebuilt after Andrew hit in '92. I believe the stabs' tension has waned from age and FP&L's abuse (multiple brownouts, momentary outs and many annual extended outages) that caused the problem. I'm putting in all new guts inside the box and new breakers. I'm a retired heavy industrial/infrastructure contractor and thought breakers were forever. But after this experience and reading many articles on the i/n, I believe you need to change your breakers after so many years. Had I replaced them all, after that 1st one went 3 years ago, I would've only had to do the breakers- a couple hour job. Now, it'll take best part of the day.

[@CaptVideo]

Thanks for all the info. Sorry you have to do so much work. Most people would need an electrician and the wallet to match. Good luck. Hope it fixes your problem. Only taxes are forever I guess.

[@deborahlong2861]

Thanks for sharing this. Not the exact problem I'm having but your vidoe helped give me some insight to help understand what's going on in my panel

[@DBTNVideo]

The panel was replaced. The tabs that rise up for the circuit breaker to push down onto were the ones that were damaged. I did not look at the big breakers shown at the very top of the photo..

[@DBTNVideo]

Your point is well taken and is supported by other remarks. The guilty party was probably the electrician hired by the contractor who built the house (I'm the second owner). By the time the problem was apparent, the damage was done. Calling the electrician was the first step after trying to assess the situation.

[@shaneglover99]

I think you did exactly what you should have

[@3beltwesty]

My 40 year house has had this issue but with an ITE breaker box. I my case the issue is their is salt air corrosion and thus one with time gets crud on the buss bar. We had a 20 amp breaker that fed the bathroom for 30 years with no problems. It's load was just the few amps for room lights. OR say 12 to 15 amps for a hair dryer for a minute. THEN we added a dehumidifier in the room and issues developed. I noted once some light flickering when the 8 amp big portable dehumidifier ran.

[@s0nt3k]

I have found when ever I have purchased breakers from Home Depot or Lows and installed them in a circuit where there a was a constant high load running on it after 9 to 12 months the breaker will start tripping and at first it may happen 2 to 5 times in the first year or so. I do know many manufacture make products for Home Depot and Lows witch have the same part numbers and everything but are made cheaper for the big retails because they do not want to pay the same amount of money as everyone else and sense they are such big accounts it worth it to the companies to manufacture versions of their product with cheaper metals and plastics I had a guy at an electrical store one day tell me that the Eaton breaks he buys can not be manufactured for the same price as home depot sells them for and I believe your issue came from a circuit that was used a lot and the metal contacting the buss would expand and contract a lot till it started racking creating lots of heat and eventually melting the breaker it self and one last thing any time i have purchased breakers from an electrical supply store i have never had a problem with them

[@notchagrandpa8875]

I've experienced a similar problem with the breaker box in an early 90's model mobile home, the burnt bar was also on one of the 220 volt breakers as you experienced, however according to the label my box was manufactured by Siemens not Westinghouse, but the box looks identical inside and out, which has lead me to question whether or not these were being mass manufacturered by a Chinese company then being sold to Americans companies that were just labeling them under their name for sale in the United States as they do today.

[@TheronJensen]

Me Too! Refrigerator was going wacky for a few days, started making strange noises, lights would sometimes blink. Got up this morning and fridge lights were out. First thought it had died and I would have to buy a new one. But just to be certain it wasnt power related I checked the breakers, which are Cutler Hammer from about 2003. No breaker had tripped. After some troubleshooting checked voltage at outlet, 107V. Went to panel board and all circuits were 120 except one which was 107V, a kitchen circuit. Pulled breaker and contacts were gone. Further inspection showed the contacts had probably been sizzling for several days and finally vaporized. The buss contact was badly pitted. Turned off power to panel and filed and sanded buss contact, but it is too pitted to recover and it is obvious the buss bar will have to be replaced. Moved kitchen circuit to never used breaker and am back in business for now. Also Replaced two adjacent breakers that had been pretty badly damaged from heat of the faulty contact. All breakers are CH, as they should be.

[@artfd]

Continuation #2. in my area, necessitating loadcenter replacement. He thought the industry had a vested interest in suppressing reports of problems like this. He also thought there was a relationship between condensation of moist air from the large service cable which in most installations is directly above the vertical row of tabs where they connect to the circuit breakers. This ultimately causes corrosion & tab overheating. He has actually seen water dripping down from the main service

[@theredtexan]

is that a mast problem? or cable loop not present?

[@gregliebig2240]

I'm a home inspector and run across this problem on occasion. We don't remove any breakers during the inspection. I ran across and ITE panel today that had a melted tab making those particular slots unusable. The home was built in 1972. Aluminum buss bars are not preferred especially in damp locations in basements.

[@DBTNVideo]

The panel in the video is Westinghouse who sold the business to Eaton. The comment about Square D would pertain to another manufacturer.

[@otterpointelectric]

Looks like you had a Seimens 2 pole 50 amp breaker in a Westinghouse panel. In Canada this voids the CSA approval. Only install westinghouse breakers in westinghouse panels. I belive this was the cause of the short on your main buss. Allways check the panel cover to see what breakers can be used in your panel ! Be Safe.

[@johnrobida432]

Exactly, although many breakers will "fit", than doesn't mean you can use them! Slightly different configurations or poorly made breakers can cause poor contact area to the bus, not enough tension or contact area. I would suspect that the breaker, and not the panel was the cause.

[@brentfugett2700]

I found this video via a Google search because my dad's Westinghouse B20 1224CG did the same thing. Actually the exact same breaker. Fried the spade connector completely off the busbar.

[@SandJFilms28]

I have what looks to be an identical control panel. It is a Westinghouse installed about 1991. My 2 50amp breaker for the AC was installed on the top left and did the same as you show in the video. The AC breakers at the time were replaced and located to an open space on the bottom. Seems to me it does seem to a be a problem with the Westinghouse box

[@3beltwesty]

Thus on my sub panel I just abandoned this lug when Clinton was President and placed a new breaker on an unused lug. I did not replace the subpanel; I just turned off the power and cleaned off the lugs and made sure the breakers are tight on the lugs. The breaker is the issue; the lugs are dumb and just there. A poor cheap breaker with poor metal tabs can be the issue. There have been counterfeit breakers too. A IR thermal probe will show a warm breaker, or ones hand too.

[@tyoungs61]

I have the 4040CT version. It sizzles and pops but ONLY when there is a large load in the garage. The garage has a subpanel, but nothing happens there. I changed the breaker that sends power to the garage subpanel, but it didn't fix the issue. Going to take all the breakers of one by one. The popping sounds are louder on the outside of the panel between the plywood its mounted on and the panel, but the sizzling on the inside is hard to pinpoint.

[@CaptVideo]

I am not an electrician, but that literally does not sound good. Good luck.

[@dbusby77]

I had this happen to my Challenger panel bus bar for a two pole 50 amp breaker for my AC and Heater circuit. The HVAC guy pulled the burnt breaker and cleaned the bus bar with a wire brush and sandpaper. However it happened again so I moved a double pole breaker below it to the bottom and opposite side and then moved it down to an I damaged space and used a new breaker. Now the damaged position is not being used.

[@goedelite]

A similar problem with a smaller panel in a condo apartment. The panel box is a Zinsco 61-500-1, with four dual breakers , 25/25, 20/20, 15/15, 15/15, not tandem ganged. One of the circuits on the 20/20 breaker went out when I restored power to it after I replaced a faulty porcelain lamp socket. I thought, "Gosh! I know I was careful and made good connections with the correct polarities. What could have happened?" I was worried when I smelled the burn in the room with the panel box and saw the breaker still arcing. I shut off the breaker and removed the panel cover, hoping that smoke and flames from an internal fire would not burst out at me. Fortunately not! Just a bad smell! I shut the power off at my condo's meter box. Locally, I found a replacement for the old Zinsco dual breaker at $107.00 plus tax. When I extracted the old breaker, I found on the half for the downed circuit that an electrode that fits a bus bar had a rough texture on one side, as if it had undergone partial melting, just as the author of this fine video describes. No doubt the plastic, too, was charred but I could not see into the bad breaker to observe it. Two thoughts: 1) The 20 Amp circuit controlled by the bad breaker has three rooms' lights plus the blower fan for my heating and A/C air handler. That blower motor must draw a high starting current. I don't think the motor started when I first restored power because there is a time delay component in the A/C blower's circuitry. I think that over a long time the breaker was arcing and it just broke down at this time. 2) I notice that the fit of the circuit breakers on the bus bars is not good. They are canted, not square. I think that is because the electrician who, years ago, wired the panel box was not careful to see that the bends in the 14 guage wire allowed a square contact between the breaker electrodes and the bus bar. I am not an electrician; only a physicist. But I would suggest that anyone hiring an electrician - most of whom are careful - be observant that the wiring done does not prevent good, square contact of breakers with bus bars in a panel box. That will cause poor contact, excessive heating and eventual failure.

[@DBTNVideo]

Check with an electrician and/or local electrical supply house. I doubt you can buy just the bar. If you replace the entire panel, you must remove all the wiring and reconnect it to the same size breakers the circuits originally used - and, it seems that you must also match the type of breaker to the type of panel and bus bar - not every breaker is for every style of panel.

[@billiebremer1599]

The electrician shoved nothing anywhere. I no longer trusted the panel box not to repeat the problem so I told him to replace it. Sometimes cheap isn't smart, especially if it means my house could burn down.

[@DBTNVideo]

To Red Berry...get an electrician, stat. Suggest you remove the breaker entirely ..you won't have power on the circuit, but you won't risk setting a fire in the box. If you must have power, throw off the main breaker to the entire panel (get a flashlight first), remove the problem breaker, inspect it, sand inside the contacts, and replace very firmly, then turn main breaker back on and see what you have happening. This can be a very dangerous electrical situation and safety is #1. Get the electrician!

[@abm1]

I'm having this problem now with a Crouse-Hinds box and a single pole 15A breaker. It failed, I replaced the breaker after cleaning the tab to which it connected and heard the arcing the next day. Not looking forward to spending $900 or more to replace the box.

[@danhillman4523]

Searching for a similar problem to what I had I came across this video. This was in my barn. One day all 3 of my 240V machines work, next day, nothing. Hooked up Amprobe and am reading 119-121 on each leg. Still, none of them would start. Everything looked fine. This box is a GE CJ-589835 (and it's been there since I bought the place for anyone with concerns about my selection of electrical components). For the 240 breakers there is a "kit" type strap that runs across the bus bars to pull both legs for 240. It's bolted to one side and lays across the opposite bar, apparently by pressure alone, as you can wiggle the strap up and then down until it contacts the bus bar. Well, apparently after some years of load the strap expands enough that it no longer makes sufficient contact to carry a 240V load. I don't know if the strap kit is installed at the factory or if someone installed them. Regardless, it is a poor example of how to do this. All of the voltage readings were normal and I checked that everything was tight, so no problem there. I flipped the compressor breaker switch back on and pressed down on the breaker and the compressor started right up. As soon as I let it go, it shut off. Needless to say, I yanked that thing out and installed a new Seimens box. I like the robust stabs on this box. They are large and have a lot of contact area. Anyway, glad your home didn't burn down. I'm also happy that I found my problem the way I did and not my seeing smoke coming out of the barn. I've got a lifetime's collection of tools, a Harley and a 70 Z-28 parked in there. It would have been a disaster. I'm extremely concerned for anyone else that has this box. What a terrible design. I am very maintenance oriented and occasionally check all of my main wire contacts for torque. It's important. However, If you're not very comfortable with electricity, have an electrician come out and do a routine check. It won't cost much and could save your home and maybe life.

[@rrxs4able]

thank you so much for the teaching. I was able to change the circuit breaker and save some money too

[@DBTNVideo]

Rohan Sirimanne you are welcome.

[@billd9254]

I just had this problem right after changing a 70 amp breaker to a 60 amp breaker for a new AC system,THAT WAS INSPECTED. the 70 amp was in after the AC change out & worked perfect for a couple days until replacing with 60 amp for inspection! after running AC for an hour or two I also smelled SOMETHING, it smelled more like dead animal than plastic! It turns out the same thing happened only worse because we didn't know for sure what it was. My Bus is burned much worse, the breaker never popped, it just burned & burned till it failed, which caused major damage to my Bus ! Pisses me off because I say it was a bad breaker, YEA! Now we're in for a new panel @ $1,100! Home depot just say I should have had an electrician install it! I've installed 50 or more in my PLBG BIZ over the years! I took the 70 amp to them, they matched it up. Isn't HD & Lowes "THE DO IT YOURSELF STORE??? That piece of CRAP breaker cost me Big Time, had I not been home, My house could have burned down!

[@fatherdeerhands93]

Just experienced the same problem today. Will be replacing as soon as possible

[@CaptVideo]

Good luck

[@artfd]

Continuation of my comment.behind the metal front panel of the loadcenter, right where that breaker locked onto the metal tab. Acrid smoke started coming out, giving an eerie look of rays, like something out of a horror show. I quickly switched off the main breakers, stopped the whole process. After things cooled off I found the sump pump breaker looking like the one in this video, plus its tab was completely gone! An HD clerk who had been an electrician told me it was a frequent problem..

[@lobuxracer]

Just had this exact problem with my 1993 box this evening on the 30A double pole air conditioner circuit. Plastic over the buss bar is melted and four breakers were also partially melted because one pole of the circuit was making bad contact. There was a burning smell for the last two days, but my wife only told me about it tonight. Smoke was coming off the top of the breakers. Too bad I can't just buy a new buss bar and replace it to avoid all the labor of removing and reconnecting all the circuits in our home.

[@daltondickens1848]

Having intermittent voltage drops on one 120v line, equipment flickering on/off in my shop and it is the one that sees the most use. Murry 200A box, purchased sometime in the late 90's. Found main breaker burned and one leg scorced just a bit,so cleaned that up and was told to put a Siemens main in. Worked well for about 6-8 months, now the issue is back, same bottom leg of the main breaker. Guess it's SquareD time, these cheaper panels/breakers are not worth it.

[@DZEyoyo123]

If I was an electrician I would install SquareD panels on all of my jobs, residential and commercial, with trip indicator flag circuit breakers, SquareD are the best panels out there.

[@midos6767]

I had a Square D panel do exactly the same to me.. The 30 amp breaker burned up and almost caught the house on fire.

[@jimmydandy9364]

@@midos6767 All panels are bad - shoddy construction, poor QC, nothing is built to last nowadays and a lot of the panels have issues, it's not just Zinsco, Sylvania, Commander, etc, combine that with a lot of shitty electricians who miss something or make even 1 bad mistake, I have seen shitty mistakes even from MASTER electricians, and STUPID ones, like put 20A breakers in replacement of 15A but not upgrading to wires, fucking genius, some panels have no issues but will have some even years after a new install it depends, some sparkies with big egos think it is a good idea to just screw things blindly and not torque those lugs up to specs...........................

[@DBTNVideo]

I am leaving the post addressed to Einstein on here because the person is right about not messing with a panel box yourself. I am confused if he thinks i did that because it is quite clear in the description that I hired an electrician. The video explains how i did troubleshooting for the problem, it doesn't advocate fixing it yourself. The poster could benefit himself from a less condescending way of commenting.

[@starrlion3945]

I have had this happen on BR type Eaton boxes with Eaton BR breakers. Some panels even with larger loads are fine. I have seen this on Murray boxes also. I went back to using Eaton's Cutler Hammer CH panels. Never had a problem out of a CH panel. I have still been unable to find out why this happens. Breakers are not getting good contact with buss bar is burning them up. Breaker springs must be weaker than others not holding them tight on the bar. No one has a answer though as to why.

[@DBTNVideo]

Starr Lion thanks for the info.

[@bengarringer5209]

thanks for this video, my Murray panel is doing this as well.

[@steelpain88]

My Westinghouse panel is having the same issue. The main 100A melted to the busbar and burned some of it. I now need to change it out and may as well upgrade while doing so. I heard it buzzing but even after trying to reseat the breaker it did nothing. Are the old style Bryant breakers interchangeable with all C&H breakers, or do they say B series on them or something close?

[@buzzpedrotti5401]

My Challenger panel ( circa 1989) with an identical bus and breaker clip joint design had exactly the same problem in a 20-amp circuit in 2009. It recurred after replacing degraded breakers 3 times. In 2016, I rerouted the service from that corroded bus (location 13 ) to an intact location that was not previously used at location 22. This has worked well for three years. No heat. No sparking. No trips. But I am now wary. Three houses nearby (built in a 1989 development) had similar failures and had the distribution panels replaced for $2000 - $4000.. I am not an electrician...

[@CaptVideo]

Might be a good idea to at least have an electrician look at it.

[@5251168]

I have just come across a similar issue with a Bryant 60A a/c and 30a w/h breaker on a 200a Westinghouse panel. The house was built in the same year of 1993. I was looking at the 200a main breaker and it looks very similar to the famous Zinsco breaker design vertical bus bars. Have you taken the main breaker off to see if there was any damage to the vertical bars too?

[@ScaleCarModels]

I think I got same set up and about same year will keep this in mind but not had issues yet... cross fingers.

[@sambarker6977]

I have a 1970's 200 amp GE with die cast buss bars and I get that sizzling on only one breaker(end of house). I tried a new breaker on different section in breaker box and it did the same thing.

[@pm9dcr2001]

Same issue BUT different box. Square D box with 100 amp sub panel. The 30 amp circuit that services an an RV (rec vehicle). The RV is located approx. 125 feet from the pad with AWG 6 wire. If I could attach pic's I could show the breaker burn VERY similar to what you show in the video. Circa box of 1990 and I've own the house since 2004. The circuit to the RV pad installed circa 2006. In 2008 we encountered similar burn to a LG refig that is in the same box, diff circuit. filing that breaker contact has delayed the box replace until now (2015) when the RV bad circuit burn is beyond repair.

[@DBTNVideo]

Blame that one on the electrician who did the original construction work when the house was built. The guy who replaced the panel and breakers made a remark about not being able to use the old breakers on the new panel, but nothing about an incompatibility of breakers and bus on the old panel. Thanks for the comment.

[@roberthirsch2149]

Exact same problem with my 200 amp service Eaton Cutler Hammer Box. This is 2015!!! Bought this building new 7 or 8 years ago. This has happened with the AC breakers (3 phase 30 amps) 3 times on the front AC/heat pump unit circuit, once on the back AC/heat pump circuit. Going to see if the contractor can do something for me. I have been paying AC company and two electricians to figure out the problem. It is a Problem on the high current circuits. Defective breakers or Bus- Either way they are melting and arcing.

[@ramonsanchez-rh5ue]

Yeah, that the best safer way to go replace the breakers box. I had replaced quite a few, for the last 15 yrs as a electrician, the main reason this bus burn out is beacause the connection is lose or the load is higher then the breaker suppling the load

[@robertalderman2092]

Can you just replace the buss bar? This happened with ours and it looks much easier to replace just that part versus the whole panel which means tearing out drywall etc.... :-/

[@andystitt3887]

Do the service lugs attach to the side of the mail breaker?

[@DBTNVideo]

I can't answer that question.

[@tdrager]

This happened to me too with several circuits arcing due to corrosion. My Challenger brand breaker box is about 20 years old.

[@SkaterStimm]

I just discovered a similar issue with my eaton dual 40 amp breaker, it looks like I will need replace the box too.

[@CaptVideo]

Sorry to hear that. I think you are doing the right thing.

[@davidwayne5891]

Yes , Just 2 days ago I was setting watching TV and smelled plastic and smoke . opened the door to my washroom and smoke & flames were coming from breaker box . Lucky I was home and I had a fire extinguisher . The 30 amp for my air also !! Yes the bus bar was melted . Well I guess from these Vid. I have to change out the whole thing . This one is a Cutter-Hammer . Never heard of the Co. This is a trailer built & bought in 2010 .

[@DBTNVideo]

Thank you for that information about the metals.

[@tesla2115]

I have a similar problem, I wanted to add a 50 amp breaker switch to the panel when i pulled off the cover i saw that the place fro that switch had corotion and evidence of melted plastic between both contacts, I tried to put the new breaker in to see if it would work and couldn't mount it fully so I decided to stop and get further assistance. too dangerous.

[@CaptVideo]

Smart decision. Obviously, electrical genius runs in the family.

[@l33tb0y1nc]

Same problem currently with a 100 amp main in a Seimens box. just lost have the house power randomly, bus looks the same.

[@makah22]

I have an Eaton c/b panel and I have the same problem with a 100amp breaker. I have replaced the breaker and cleaned the contact. It works for few months then it archs and trips back the breaker. If I replace the breaker with a 125amp, will it fix the problem? Thanks for the reply.

[@MrCinimod93]

are you using the proper brand of breaker you should never be tripping a 100 amp breaker also never up size a breaker from what it was intended and if the tabs in the panned have had arcing a new breaker still wont fit tight and make the problem worse

[@cultofdeath79]

i did have a breaker that cracked & sparked then went straight off when i switched it on not sure if it was the same problem though (had a bad landlord who didn't seem to care) moved out of that property pretty quick lol

[@djcsound]

Buddy they saw you coming... all you had to do was go down to your local electrical supply store and get the buss bar for that model panel box and swap it out. I had the EXACT same problem the burning plastic smell, arcing etc. did the job today, well the good Lord blessed me with a gentleman that happened to have removed the same box from another job and used the buss bar from that box Thank you Jesus! otherwise I would have had to buy a new box and or possibly upgrade to a newer more expensive box.

[@CaptVideo]

They did not see me coming. I went looking for a professional electrical service. I know my limits and replacing a breaker bus bar or box is beyond my skill set. I might point out that you have solved your problem by recreating the same conditions that created that problem. I don’t consider that to be especially wise.

[@charliehowell6158]

Currently I have a couple breakers not connecting or something. Theres 3 spots on the bus covered in black carbon. But the interesting part I worried about. I moved wires to a working breaker on the bus and power still didnt go on or trip the breaker. Im missing something and is frustrating

[@deniedgr8ness]

Did you happen to figure your problem out cause I'm having that same issue

[@davidpanysr2854]

Was the 2 pole 50 amp breaker an 'approved' breaker? ... looked like a different manufacturer ... looked like an ITE or Siemens style.

[@CaptVideo]

I have no answer for your question. My assumption is that the electrician who wired the house when it was built knew what he was doing, but that is an ass umption.

[@jimmy-docs]

Same exact problem with our Westinghouse LT1630CT 150Amp box.

[@DREKOWICK69]

I am hearing some crazy sounds and I swore I saw arching jumping out from the breaker. is my house going to burn down or am I good?

[@CaptVideo]

That is bad. Get help immediately.

[@DREKOWICK69]

@@CaptVideo yikes!

[@CaptVideo]

Tell the Feds. Contact info is in the text about the video.

[@jamesipad204]

50A break for a house AC? Anyways they used the wrong breaker. Looked like a Siemens breaker. Gotta use the matching breaker for the box Best to replace the whole thing, but if there is room, you can install the right breaker in a spot that isn’t burned up.

[@justinboldery3167]

Yes my did the same. It's a Westinghouse breaker box in my double wide.

[@justinboldery3167]

It wont let me add a picture. But I changed te breakers for the furnace and air. Cleaned the tabs off and got rid of the slightly melted plastic. But my tabs were not messed up. Just the plastic and the breaker. This happened after we got a new outside air unit. Let me know if you contact them about it. If you want a picture the name is Justin Boldery. Email [e-mail] thanks

[@frankmojo8820]

My Eaton Disconnect and my Eaton double pole 30 amp breaker just burned out (on the left side if that matters)....This was used for outside lights. The light were working for about 3 months...then all of a sudden it started tripping. ..now breaker and panel is burned. Can i just replace the panel and breaker with a different and better brand Panel and Breaker?

[@CaptVideo]

That's a question for an electrician. I replaced my entire panel and all the breakers using a qualified electrician.

[@redberry3852]

I have a square D 15amp breaker that is sizzling and it’s connected to my living room , bathroom , and master bedroom ceiling lights plus the receptacles in my bathroom and bedroom are also connected to this 15amp squareD breaker ... I replaced it not 3 months ago and it appeared to be fixed but the other night the problem started again and it’s probably my own fault it failed because it was kinda tricky to get it to fit in such a snug place but I’m open to all help and advice I can get to fix this myself if possible because I’m not working and electricians are very expensive ... Right now the breaker is off and I’m just dealing with no lights in those areas ... please help !!! Thanks !!! GOD BLESS !!!

[@DBTNVideo]

I posted a reply. Get an electrician. This is unsafe.

[@DBTNVideo]

The breakers are from the original panel installation, not replacements. If you are right, the electrician didn't know his business. Your observation could be right. None of the other breakers showed this problem.

[@1BADOLZ]

I have a Westinghouse B20- 1224cg The home was built in 1993. The main breaker is getting hot when under load from furnace or central air and looks like its melting. I'm hoping I don't need a whole new panel but I'm afraid that will be the result when the Electrician comes later today.

[@CaptVideo]

What happened? Care to post a follow-up comment?

[@smoothntallGWM]

Dan s If a single 'tab' becomes burnt, and if there are enough other empty slots in your panel, you can just move BOTH breakers that share that 'tab'. Mark those two slots as burnt (or damaged don't use), so nobody in the future tries to use them, there problem solved, no costly electrician labor to pay for. Of course, only do this if you feel comfortable working on such things and know how to be safe.

[@ericcrnkovich4488]

This exact thing happened to my Siemens box (produced around 1995). It happened on the main 100 amp breaker at the top.

[@CaptVideo]

Sorry to hear it. Good luck.

[@ericcrnkovich4488]

@@CaptVideo Thanks, got it replaced and the tab sanded down- working fine so far - if it happens again we'll be upgrading our whole system to a 200amp service which we want to do anyways.

[@gmcjetpilot]

I am here because I had a similar problem 60 amp ganged breaker for AC..... My dual AC units both stopped working at the same time? Hummm. I figured it was A POWER ISSUE. Since the recirculation fan was running but outside the condenser fan was not, I took the cover off the (cutler-hammer owned by Eaton) breaker box. One of the two phases to AC was dead. I looked at the main breaker box and power. One of the breaker switches (all cutler-hammer owned by Eaton) had something wet on it? I took the cover off and breaker out. It was a HOROR story. It was burned. One of the two ganged 60 amp breakers was burned. The 20 amp on the other side, on the same bus bar tab was also melted. Both AC were working drawing max current all day. Some corrosion on that tab must have made it get hot and hotter until the melt down happened. The 20 amp breaker was still powering it's circuit until I took it out and it fell apart. The CB contact in both cases was still on the tab but separated from the CB. I wrote *Eaton* and called and was expecting a reply by email or phone. Never came. What I guess is the DESIGN of these home boxes a 50-60 amp breaker is max. The breaker to bus bar contact is not great and can over heat without tripping. This gets hotter and hotter and the breaker melts until it physically melts the connection in side and then breaks the circuit (but the breaker mechanism does not trip). It may be a good idea after 10-15 years to pull all the breakers and clean all the bus bar and breaker contacts (at least on the above 20-30 amp ones. I bought *Siemens* brand breakers (replaced 7 of them. 1 was the unit that failed completely, 1 badly damaged which shared same tab on other side. Because one of the adjacent CB's was a gang of 2 and had head damage, and and 2 more that had damage). I cleaned all the tabs and installed the new CB's. The Seimmens CB's look better than the original Cutler-Hammer CB's. Still the contact resistance due to small area and increased resistance due to corrosion over time, and trying to get 60 amps through it is marginal. if the breaker is not fully seated it is a concern. I have gone out with both AC units running with an IR temp gun and it all seems to run cool. I think if both units start at the same time and there is a surge at the same time, it may be a cause for it to be near overload. That could cause a arc maybe and maybe poor connection after as the spark has burned the contact? I am going to pull this dual 60AMP breaker and have a look at the contacts and see if I see any issues. This was really concerning. However the box did it's job and there was no fire.

[@tomknapik1338]

Same thing happened to my westenhouse box from the 90's as well.

[@shaneglover99]

I am having that problem right now. Which is why I am watching this. I have changed my breaker and it still sizzles. Tomorrow I will attempt to put 1 more new breaker in in hopes that it us the breaker just being bad. The breaker has half of 4 rooms on it. To me that seems like a whole lot.

[@DBTNVideo]

Get an electrician. Seriously.

[@shaneglover99]

@@DBTNVideo I'm going to bro. I have a empty slot i wanna try first with a fresh breaker and if it sizzles I will have no choice.

[@CaptVideo]

@@shaneglover99 Good for you. I think you have too many sizzles already. If the main bus bar onto which the breakers snap is "going bad" so to speak, you may just be postponing the same problem and you may not be around to catch it when it happens. Stay safe and good luck!

[@JustinSmith-oi9vd]

That Siemens breaker for the a/c is NOT listed for use in that panel. That's why it failed.

[@DBTNVideo]

thanks for the information. Guess the original contractor's electrician didn't know that.

[@robertmitchum2972]

Justin Smith Highly unlikely. If the breaker fit in there tight to begin with, why would it fail? And of course, Westinghouse will only recommend their breakers.

[@nickdvorchak1534]

doesn't matter if it's a tight fit or not, eaton/westinghouse breakers are only listed for use with eaton/westinghouse panels. Mixing metals was probably why it arced and destroyed itself. I'm not sure what they use for metals, but lets just say that siemens used steel, and the westinghouse bus bar was made out of aluminum, mixing those metals would cause a reaction, corrode, and cause arcing on that breaker.

[@holliwood3226]

Robert Mitchum - The NEC does not allow you to mix breakers and boxes because of these type problems. You're just asking for a lawsuit or criminal charges for fire damage or if someone dies in the resulting fire.

[@elioselectric468]

Must use listed breakers, has nothing to do with the breaker panel. Each manufacturer has certain tolerances for breaker clamping force for their specific bus bar. Next time call the electrician first, he might of caught the bad connection in time and saved your panel. Home Depot is not qualified to give advice like this, especially over the phone!?

[@DBTNVideo]

Elios Electric see comments

[@kylematti4048]

Looks like a Siemens breaker in a CH panel. Issue is wrong breaker for the panel not the panel its self.

[@DBTNVideo]

Thanks. All replaced.

[@howardblasingame6082]

The Entire Panel did not have to be replaced--The Buss is replaceable. The Original Cause of Arcing could be the Breaker or Buss. Also, if THAT Breaker Space was not needed, it could be Marked Do Not Use.

[@DBTNVideo]

Good thinking. I didn't trust the whole thing after the one section went bad and erred on the side of caution.

[@UrvineSpiegel]

Can not agree enough. That electrician must have been on hard times.

[@dell177]

This is what happens when manufacturers try to cut costs without doing reliability testing, that testing costs money so they just hope to have moved on before they get caught selling defective materials. Years ago I worked for a company that had 200 amp 3 phase ITE bereaker panels and we had a similar problem. If I caught the problem early enough I could clean up the buss bars and everything was fine AS LONG as i monitored breakers for overheating. UL is useless on something like this.

[@CaptVideo]

Thanks for the post. If you can find the right government agency to complain to, please post it here. UL does not think it is a problem - there have only been 20,000 views of this video!

[@edywolfe4625]

Have same problem on square d box

[@jodylicker3641]

I have the same box and had the same problem, it was running my basement subpanel for my electric baseboard heat in my basement

[@rob9mm638]

I have the same issue 1 breaker was burning that section, then I disconnected both breakers left and right..I don’t need that breakers, i think I’m good for now...I can’t afford a 1000 bucks right now..

[@MrCinimod93]

cutler hammer /eaton still makes that exact same panel ive put in plenty worked on plenty seen this happen with seimens and square d home line in them before but over all not a bad panel

[@jermkane2890]

if you find a voltage far less than 120, you may have arcing in you breaker box. I had 70v in 2 rooms of my house. it was the damn breaker box.

[@JayJohnson-pg3of]

My wife heard our box go boom boom she said and the we smelled plastic as well the I went and saw that the box had burn marks on the top of it.

[@BruceLee-zw5ue]

I have Bryant breaker box. My a/c breaker is 4 pole - 2 30 amp and 2 40 amp. One 40 amp went bad but did not trip the other one (Duel trip system). When I pulled the breaker out, I saw bus bar where the breaker seats is little worn out (not burnt). I am thinking of changing the whole panel instead of taking the chances.

[@nhinguyentan2183]

We had the the the same problem with our Westinghouse Novaline panel

[@artfd]

I believe this is a generic problem common to all loadcenters of similar design,not just Westinghouses. If the CPSC and UL both tell you this is not a common problem, they are either uninformed or lying. If you do a long & detailed web search for related issues you will find many stories like this one. I had the same thing happen to me 11/1/13, 33+ y.o. ITE loadcenter 200A service. A 15A breaker controlling a sump pump had clicked off. When I clicked it on again, an electric arc started.

[@RC-dl4nq]

Change box also make sure you balance your load

[@CaptVideo]

Thanks for the advice. The entire box and all breakers were replaced by a professional electrician after I detected the problem. I wasn't taking any chances.

[@AMomentInTimeProductions]

Those Breaker boxes suck i would never use them, they malfunction all the time know for this, very poor engineering, i would only use ITE which is now Siemens, in 1983, Siemens bought out ITE.. so Siemens boxes are awesome you will never have a problem with them, not only that they are rated the safest Circuit breaker panels anywhere.. I have never seen an ITE / Siemens Box Do this, not saying it hasn't happen but i never seen it..

[@CaptVideo]

Appreciate the information. When you buy a house the decision about all the electrical stuff has already been made for you. I trust the outfit who redid my box knew what they were doing.

[@berttolie1290]

Same problem

[@DBTNVideo]

I sent this photographic information about the panel to Underwriter's Laboratory. They found no problems with the panel as designed and indicated it was my singular problem. DBTNVideo.

[@robertalderman2092]

Yes, ours says Underwriters Laboratory on it as well and did the exact same things!

[@agems56]

Scary design of the contact point. Should be more robust than that!

[@soothingme]

Zinsco or Federal Pacific Electric (FPE). These panels have a reputation for being problematic but not yours. It was likely an isolated incident with your box.