Cities Skylines 2 CEO Has Spoken

What a brutal situation. Colossal Order have written to their players, outlining the plan to fix Cities Skylines 2.
Join us at bellular.games for early access content, 20 editions of 'Loading Screen' a month and to support our team!
Sources:
forum.paradoxp...
forum.paradoxp...

[@BellularNews]

Join us at bellular.games for early access content, 20 editions of 'Loading Screen' a month and to support our team!

[@lisa1162]

I'm wondering if it's true that CO has been removing negative threads on their forums, especially since you stated them to be positive.

[@mehmeteking]

@@lisa1162 They do, and they ban critics.

[@lisa1162]

@@mehmeteking And it would be great if Bellular would look into it, and report on it, instead of making it look as if he was looking through rose-tinted glasses. 🙂

[@spencermcalpine8021]

Definitely they are. And they ban as well if one person continues to bash the game

[@AlmaBuru]

The reason why PDX forum is so much more positive to the game is that PDX and CO moderators pretty much banned anyone who was remotely critical of them or the game.

[@KjKase]

That's why I don't go to company controlled forums for discussion, unless it's on features I'd like added.

[@ryuno2097]

Goesnto show Bell doesn't do his research properly and look everything on face value. He still doesn't understand why Suicide Squad has positive reviews on Steam when there is no one playing. He says there is no negative reviews. He doesn't spend the time looking at those positive reviews and realize that people left a positive rating with negative comment because that way their review won't get deleted.

[@tiimhotep]

@@ryuno2097sure mr. warner gaming executive sir

[@MrImmortal709]

You can submit bug reports and get banned for it.

[@_holy__ghost]

​@@ryuno2097you hit the nail on the head. its genuinely getting harder and harder to take these videos seriously. sure, he'll show screenshots and give out some actual information, but when it comes to actually analysing and interpreting that information in a coherent manner, he is absolutely insufferable. weird takes upon weird takes upon weird takes.

[@YourBlackLocal]

Just insane. It was literally a guaranteed success, no matter how long they waited.

[@martinbunye5202]

Can’t pay salaries with no product to get revenue.

[@YourBlackLocal]

@@martinbunye5202You mean the revenue from the wildly successful first game that still had people buying it? This was a pretty small team btw.

[@XMysticHerox]

@@martinbunye5202The time they ran out of was their publishers deadline. I highly doubt they actually ran out of money.

[@isturbo1984]

everyone's a business major wen they are shitting on a company. but defend it and oh boy, you know nothing! communist gamers in a nutshell.

[@-JustHuman-]

@@martinbunye5202 You are not really listing here. It was released because Paradox wanted a better quarter as another game had bomb, that game have nothing to do with Colossal Order, as they have only made city games that all where a succes. Paradox the publisher then forced them to release the game, as they had a deadline but the game wasn't ready and CO knew it but couldn't say no as that was the terms. CO had enough money to keep pushing the deadline, but they where not allowed as the shares of Paradox would take a hit if they didn't had a game out to cover the loss. They had lost 25% of their share prices at the time of release of CS 2, and they hoped it could make the shares recover. It worked for a very short time at best, but it has hurt the price in the long run as news of sales and troubles came out in December 2023.

[@gnofusnomuss945]

As this is really Paradox, I can't help but feel like they are sorry they got caught rather than sorry for what happened. There was no reason for this game to fail except pure, unadulterated greed. The expectation was that gamers would just take it and keep on paying for it, but when that didn't happen they felt regret. Typical.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

I mean, CO has made it pretty clear that even they were unaware of some of the issues that they are still dealing with. It’s largely why there are still so many problems, they were working on fixing things before launch and those things have mostly been fixed, but the issues that blindsided them are continuing to plague the game and seem to have been fairly crucial things like performance on mid tier hardware.

[@Narangarath]

Paradox got what they wanted (covering their asses with Lamplighters League), so I doubt they regret much (at least quite yet). It's just too bad they threw CO under the bus in the process.

[@Blisterdude123]

So Paradox ran out of time for development but they had the time and money to saturation bomb every content creator with a pulse with sponsorships trying to sell a product they knew wasn't ready for launch. Malice, not incompetence. Consumer hostile.

[@LarsaXL]

Very much so.

[@xGoodOldSmurfehx]

The fact that Colossal Order has failed to admit that they were wrong and refrained from apologising for being full of shit shows that while Paradox is the real problem, CO is not a honest company thats trustworthy Neither of them gets sympathy from me, Paradox gets more than a middle-finger though im considering them hostile entity to gamers and they are now on my boycott list alongside Ubisoft, Blizzard and a bunch of other assholes

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Mostly yes, but it really depends on the size of the company. Small companies cannot soak up losses for long and good devs are expensive - along with all the other support staff required to make a quality game. The other extreme are all these "forever preview/beta" games by really small shops that take years to produce a game - which might not ever reach production release.

[@DotDusk]

The story of a studio that managed to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

[@jubbalubby]

Truly, one of the tales of all time.

[@J0xxe]

Publisher, not studio...

[@xGoodOldSmurfehx]

@@J0xxe The studio has repeatedly failed to admit that their game was broken and that they were full of shit They deserve no more respect than the publisher, its just that the publisher deserves a lot worse

[@cirugo7042]

It's better on the Paradox forums because their mods are ban-happy

[@noworries272]

Was my exact thought when he said that!

[@Goremize]

Like "wow, everyone is so positive here! the place has a pretty small community but it is interesting to see this!" Meanwhile the mods ban list is fifty times the size of the current community. You can get banned for bug reporting. You have to post positive to not be banned. People on the Suicide Squad steam page had to post positive reviews or their reviews got deleted, so they hated on the game in the comments but this guy ignored that fact. When studios use this much censorship, its time to move on.

[@discostoo]

Ooh yeah, banned twice, going for my three-peat.

[@hugevibez]

From their Q&A: "Q: Will we get actual quays like the ones in CS1? A: This sounds like it would fit great with the harbor-themed Bridges & Ports DLC coming later this year!" I know enough...

[@goldenhate6649]

When the sequel has less than the game that came before it, its not worth its weight

[@robsomethin4415]

I feel like a sequel, especially to a city builder, should defacto include all the things the DLC included in the base game of the sequel

[@avlally]

@@robsomethin4415they could have taken cities skylines 1, added all the dlc, and then added the road tools and new zoning categories and shipped that as cities skylines 2 and it would’ve been a success.

[@SeithonJetter]

When they talk about "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs" this is what they mean. I was a huge fan of CS1, right now I've no desire to play CS2 and won't be going back for quite some time.

[@--_DJ_--]

I won't even bother getting a pirated copy of cs2, and I have way more hours into cs than I care to think about.

[@RageRaccoon]

@@--_DJ_-- i pirated when it launched and still felt ripped off i wasted ssd life on the game xD

[@Jorendo]

Yup, tried it on gamepass and was glad I didn't pre order the game.

[@Monique-iz8lp]

The fact that this is mostly on Paradox is even more enraging, considering they regularly borderline brick CK, Stellaris or EU4 at least once a year.

[@Svafne]

I _used_ to like them.. Their new releases doesn't interest me at all sadly :/

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

Paradox games are some of my favorites, i am kind of intreasted in the new stuffs as well, i wish they could be better as they used to be and better than that

[@EhrenG]

Paradox has been shitting the bed for the past 5+ years and it's only getting worse. Sad because ck2 and eu4 are some of my favorite games of all time and I doubt if we will be getting quality products from this company ever again. And yeah, some of the newer eu4 DLC have been straight up broken on release but sold to the public in that state nonetheless, leviathan being a particularly egregious example.

[@qunas101]

As someone who isn't attached to Paradox at all, to me it always seemed like an abusive relationship. Constantly milking players with DLCs and still get that love from them, it's insane. Now they release an unfinished game for full AAA price and are already planning on DLCs

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

@@qunas101 as someone who was (and to smaler extent still is) a fan, i can tell you that for me it was because i haven't ever seen or played a game like CK2, Hoi4, Eu4, etc and i was hooked like it was a drug

[@redheads604]

CO should NOT get a free pass on the CS2's failures. In fact, they are as much to blame as Paradox. They bragged about how in-depth their simulation is. In reality, the economy simulation is highly flawed because it doesn't function realistically. If you try to break it, nothing happens as they implemented fail safes in place. Basically the whole thing is a facade and player choice is meaningless. This is ALL designed by choice. And when criticized about it, CO's CEO retorted with "if you don't like it, this is not the game for you". And many of the technical issues stems from very amateur mistakes, such as assets missing LODs and Cims having fully modeled teeth. And now you expect these same devs to overhaul a core mechanic away from their original intentions? that's just wishful thinking. And the lack of mods support from day 1 is a blessing in disguise for the players, because CS1 was successful only because of mods. it masked many of the devs' shortcomings. CS1's core issues were never fixed by the devs as they repeated refused to do so. You shouldn't rely on mods to fix the game for you. That's bad precedent.

[@machinimaaquinix3178]

This exactly. The simulations is totally borked. It makes me appreciate CS1 even more. I use the standard must have mods but with the addition of the Transfer Manager mod, the simulation is incredibly tuned, and tunable. As for the second paragraph, it seemed CO did not learn from CS1's lacks. So many things that were annoying in CS1 and not fixed still remain in CS2.

[@mehmeteking]

Mariina (CEO of CO) said the decision to release was hers. She then doubled down on it. The game had already been postponed for years. Putting all the blame on PDX is just stupid. This guy didn't do his research. He attacks PDX for the views. That said, PDX is of course not innocent. They should have done their acceptance testing and not published the game in its current state.

[@Jorendo]

Didn't they also use a outdated engine and not using modern hardware so it causes these massive issues as it isn't using all the cores modern pc's have? Or did I hear that wrong in some youtubers video who mentioned something like that. Can't remember where I heard it sorry.

[@Immortal2022]

Absolutely correct. I don't like how everyone seems to be okay with just saying it's the publisher's fault. If anything, the studio and the publisher are basically the same entity. One makes garbage and the other pays the garbage manufacturers blood money as long as they make garbage.

[@varthshenon]

simps

[@youtuvi7452]

Never forget, they nonchalantly said before launch, "It's broken lol, buy anyways"

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

They should have taken another approach. Perhaps calling it a preview and allowing eager folks to buy early with the understanding it is still under development and there would be no official support until official launch. I have bought several games like this - mostly from smaller shops that need the cashflow to fund continued development of the game.

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Never would’ve imagined such chaos and turmoil from the model train equivalent side of gaming.

[@MauseDays]

really? i expect it becouse in this side of gaming. there are monopoly's becouse of how niech the genres are. if that company screws up we dont get our game. there is little comp

[@kellenhayes3628]

Why do. you put periods. in your sentences like. this?

[@bonenintomatensaus]

Luckily we still have Transport Fever 2, which is is phenomenal

[@mipsan]

I think it's understandable, it is a cult game series and a lot of loyal fans have been waiting forever for this game. The company hyped it up as the greatest simulation ever. I'm really sad about the state of the game I wanted to love.

[@avlally]

@@mipsanI think this is where a lot of the negativity is coming from for players. The marketing and the game they released before hand was amazing, they acted like we were going to get a masterpiece of a game. Instead we got a Frankensteined mess of code that barely runs well and has loads of game-breaking bugs. It’s a slap in the face to all the people that loved the game enough to be interested in the first place.

[@Zer0Hour17]

You mean releasing a game a year before it was ready was a bad idea?

[@Blxz]

It's funny to watch new wave paradox relearning all the old lessons all over again.

[@FeatherP]

paradox is censoring their forums A LOT, so that probably helps

[@jfh667]

So basically don't look at studios because they don't have control over nothing. Look at who the CEOs and board of director is, and how they manage their studios.

[@ffsnickavailable]

The problem is not only the "CEOs and board of directors", but also all youtubers (Buffa, 2Dollars etc) that were trying to sell us this crap

[@jfh667]

@@ffsnickavailable What you are saying is true, they do use youtubers to sell that crap. But youtubers dont force studios to produce subpar games, CEOs do.

[@jordanking7711]

This proves my point. It's not the developers that call the shots, it's the publishers. Because Mariina and her team of course would have wanted more time to polish the game, but it wasn't good enough for Paradox and forced their hand, all for the sake of money. Yes Mariina did say that they weren't going to delay the launch, but let's be honest here. They were forced to say that by Paradox. And if you don't believe me, ask the upper management at CDPR. They did the EXACT same thing to Cyberpunk 2077, and upper management were called out as a result by the devs in a later conference call, and the dev team basically told management 'told you so' because they told management REPEATEDLY that the game wasn't ready.

[@ryuno2097]

Upper management weren't fully to blame for Cyberpunk 2077. CDPR didnt fully start development after the announcement trailer. They only started in 2016, even during that time there we so many changes happening. Of course investors are going to wonder if the game is gonna be released or not because they were given a long time to develop the game and there is no news of a release date yet.

[@jordanking7711]

@@ryuno2097 The fact remains though that the dev team TOLD upper management that the game wasn't ready yet, and upper management never listened only to be THEN called out for it in a later conference call by the dev team.

[@rupert1126]

I’m not defending paradox here, but without deadlines we’d never get a release. Devs and artists in general are never “satisfied.” Now in this particular case, Paradox should have let it cook, and the Mod situation is inexcusable on both sides.

[@diehardorlive1]

@@ryuno2097 kind of a moot point. Publishers always have the final say and they should be able to gauge whether the game is ready or not. They responsible for providing the funds for quality control and oversight. Yes, it's a mutualistic relationship, but the developers generally do not have the final say for release.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

The games industry, much like the book and movie industries, is almost entirely dominated by publishers. Dev studios really have no way of controlling or influencing anything that the publisher demands. The issue is, creating a game that can stand up in the current games market requires a ton of money that most studios can’t produce. So they literally sell themselves out to a publisher who has the money in exchange for a chance to make the game they want, but those who play with the devils toys are brought by degrees to wield his sword.

[@bradlovin1]

Mod support is the only thing that can save the game.

[@shinkicker404]

@@bellyillish and they will police the fk out of their workshop too, anything too close to a DLC or something they will want to release will be removed or suppressed.

[@TheUnusualNetwork]

So to sum up : nothing is ready. Nothing is near ready but they have the process! believe in it!! /s

[@ntall123]

It would actually be dumb to trust paradox in this context. They have a consistent track record of releasing incomplete half baked games then slowly completing them and doing major bug fixes along side dlc releases.

[@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu]

And introducing tons of new bugs that don't ever get fixed. They took Stellaris from an amazing experience to a shitshow by ripping the guts out and replacing ever update/dlc.

[@Svafne]

Paradoxes problem imo is that their previous games have so much more content and makes so much more sense to play if you already spent half a fortune buying all the DLC's for them. I love Crusader Kings 2 and I like Skylines a lot, but I literally have no interest in buying either sequel as they're lacking so much of the content from the previous ones. I rather just keep playing them.. Even if the sequels get to content-pairiry there's very little chances of me actually buying them as the game + DLC's will cost 2-500€... And the main pull off the new versions are cosmetic.. I'm good actually, thanks but no thanks.

[@KjKase]

That's why I've kinda stopped buying Paradox games lately. I like their earlier releases, and those took years to get the content they have. Every game Paradox releases it pretty sparse and unfinished because they're banking on selling all the DLC later to fill it out. I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to spend $200 on a game over the course of two years for me to finally enjoy it.

[@ngkhaijie]

They should look for alternative business models of remaking existing games with new engine instead of barebones sequel trat will only reach parity half a decade later.

[@XBluDiamondX]

Paradox really went to shit. Last game I bought from them was CK3 and that felt like a very barebones product on release. It was fun for a little bit, but lost its luster fast. Every other relative recent release has been pretty garbage.

[@ytra1501]

Yeah I just got cities skylines recently with some dlc on sale and probably wont buy cs2 for at least a couple years, if I even do

[@mygetawayart]

I can understand the situation the devs are facing right now is extremely frustrating. They can't update the game fast enough to fix everything that's broken or missing with it and they can't just retreat into complete silence which leads them to receive a constant barrage of criticism they can do very little about in the short term. From a gamer's perspective, the game is enjoyable (especially with Thunderstore mods) but it's still riddled with bugs and bafflingly stupid design decisions. So we understand the difficult position they're in and are willing to be clement, on the other hand we're paying customers and expect a product of a certain quality, and when that quality is not met, it leaves us rightfully disappointed and enraged, The only thing CO can do at the moment is to show that they TRULY listen to the players' concerns. To not gloss over serious issues or call your playerbase toxic for calling you out, to not ignore questions that may have a disappointing answer and to acknowledge the state of the game as it is right now, no business talk and no empty words. This latest blogpost was a step in the right direction therefore. I also think they need to be less restrictive in the feedback they do take. It took a mass movement of the biggest CS2 content creators to make them aware of certain issues, or at least to make them assuage us that they know they're issues and that they'd be working on them. They should instead, for example, take what the most popular mods on Thunderstore do to the game to understand what the players actually want, and maybe implement them into the basagame (also considering that consoles won't have access to script mods), and as much as it would pain them, they need to show they're also listening from the players who aren't content creators or modders, who just write a post on their forums to show their frustration.

[@Rolatii]

Paradox used to be one of those publishers that I kinda liked solely on the merit that I didn't hear much news about them and they made some of my favorite time-wasters. But over the years I've really learned to dislike them. This isn't the first game they've pushed out too early with the intent of fixing later with patches, DLC and a heaping helping of mods from the community. It's a pattern for them, and throwing Lamplighters under the bus as an excuse just shows how little they actually care. I'm glad that HBS got out from under Paradox's boot, but I'm really disappointed that Paradox gets to keep the rights to Battletech and Shadowrun Returns. Because I'd be shocked if they did anything with them, let alone anything worthwhile.

[@nebeskisrb7765]

And here I was wondering why no more Shadowrun games were made.

[@DumbCreative]

I think the demand for a modern city builder game is much higher than the game industry realizes, and Cities Skylines needs proper competition. Too many "post apocalyptic/survival" city builders, not enough Sim City style city builders.

[@Awesomes007]

“If you can dream it, you can build it!” They must not have very good dreams.

[@Meitti]

I wouldn't put it down to just Paradox. Matter of fact is Cities:Skylines was developed by a group of eager finnish university students. Cities Skylines 2 was developed by remote work hires, with more emphasis on diversity than skill and dedication to the project. First game was 95% a finnish product, 2nd game is a remote work nightmare of a global product. Working cultures between a group of enthusiastic friends and group of faceless remote workers who use discord chat are a night and a day.

[@lastburning]

This exactly.

[@TheChurchof4]

I find it odd that people seem to be saying that the CO bear no responsibility for this. They signed a contract that allowed Paradox to publish when they wanted. I would assume that they were aware of this provision before they signed. I would also assume that this was a conscious decision made of their own free will. If one gets into bed with a snake one should not be surprised when one gets bitten. CO should not get a pass. They signed the contract, that makes them equally responsible.

[@Odytzi]

Cities skylines 2 will have the same fate as simcity.

[@Captain.AmericaV1]

Opportunistic greed, scumbaggery and anti consumerism results in this. They knew this and still did it. Don't care who it to blame, zero sympathy.

[@mightylink65]

Why do we even still have publishers in this digital age? At a time when uploading a game to Steam is just $100, all they do is cause so many problems and take all the money and leave developers dry when things don't go well. We need to cut out the middle man to make these games more successful. Publishers are not helping anymore, their jobs used to be to help manufacture and ship the game, now we don't do that anymore. All they do is set the prices, take the money, force developers to add more microtransactions and of course set impossible deadlines.

[@peterclarke7006]

Publishers also find funding and pay wages while a game is in development. Imagine going to work every day for two years but not being paid until the end. Publishers get around that problem in the same way your boss does

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Publishers are investors, they pay the deveopment cost upfront. Without publishers you need to find someone else to invest or make loans on the houses of all the development team

[@mightylink65]

@@peterclarke7006I knew someone was going to make this reply... if the publisher didn't take such a huge cut they would of had the funds from the previous game to make the next one. Another big problem with publishers is they are forcing developers to live "paycheck to paycheck" when they could of grew on their own. All developers start out indie, Blizzard started in an apartment with 3 guys. Once you bring publishers into the mix they start taking more and more of their money until it becomes unsustainable. Publishers are parasites! And because I know someone else is going to make that "making games is expensive" comment, think about this... why is it expensive? What's costing more? Who is taking so much money from these developers that is driving up development costs? Think about this while thinking about all the huge indie successes lately that had next to no budget.

[@peterclarke7006]

@@mightylink65 listen, son, I'm not making excuses for the industry, I'm just saying why so many studios turn to publishers. They need the cash injection publishers offer in order to hire new people, buy new equipment, and learn new technology. The money they make from their first game normally isn't sufficient to cover all that, particularly if they're of the "sequel= bigger, better, prettier" mentality. Trying to do all that without a publisher is a massive gamble, and many indie studios don't make it. While I understand what you're saying, and I wish we lived in your fairytale world of unicorns and magic money trees, but most people just want a salary so they can pay rent every month. Now, you can either understand that, or you can carry on thinking anyone who isn't 110% behind your naive beliefs must be a corporate shill.

[@Narangarath]

​@@mightylink65 "Why is it expensive? What's costing more?" can both be answered in one word, time. Players expect these ever bigger experiences that take an incredible amount of work hours to create, while labor costs (should) go up every year. Back in the day one guy could code an entire game on their free time, while modern games are so complicated that even slightly bigger mods require a team of people to keep things moving along in a timely manner.

[@joshuasmith3638]

It’s really simple why this failed so bad. Console….. CO and Paradox are so concerned about console support that they have alienated the rest of the loyal community. I personally preordered the ultimate edition the moment it was available and waited anxiously for the release. With over 20000 hours on CS1 this was to be a dream come true. Instead it is a nightmare. If they decided tomorrow to allow modding to move to steam they could possibly turn the ship around as the modding community would correct the issues in a flash. Instead they are going to ride Paradox mods right to the dumpster. It is a great time for another developer to come in and create a city builder designed for the community that loves this genre so that CO and Pardox can just go away. I personally don’t think I will ever play this game again and god I just wish I could get a refund but that’s what I get for giving CO over a month after release thinking they would actually fix things. Scam me once and I will never go back. Shame on you CO and Paradox.

[@multi21racing]

That "feedback process" they showed is literally how product improvement works for everyone and has worked since the existence of mankind. If you present this as a sign that something is improving in your company, you are in full on desperation mode and have absolutely nothing to present.

[@kaleiohulee6693]

The one bit I'd quibble with is thinking the CEO or higher levels were aware of the incoming train wreck and pushed it out anyway. They do not want bad PR. They don't want to lose money. They are also disconnected from the development process and probably don't care much about it. That's why this problem is inherent to larger studios & publishers. The larger a company gets, the larger the disconnect becomes between decisions & development.

[@fransmith3255]

Yes, and that disconnect is ALWAYS the CEO's fault, usually because CEO doesn't listen to the people who do know, and instead are too busy studying their revenue sheet and placating shareholders. The responsibility is still back on the CEO's shoulders.

[@kaleiohulee6693]

@@fransmith3255 The buck always stops at the top so they're always ultimately responsible. I just think it should be attributed to incompetence rather than malice. They're actually good at their job, but their job is not making games. Their goals and objectives run counter to good game design which is why bigger studios consistently make bad games.

[@Ragnar0xx0rz]

Be prepared for even more bad news going down the road... Paradox is now trying to promote a subscription plan for access to Stellaris DLC's, and the Cities: Skylines games have an even higher volume of DLC and thus even more incentive for them to use the same model here.

[@larrythebomb5001]

That's when ppl will stop playing and other indie ppl will step up and make it free again.

[@legendarygodzilla3577]

Cities skylines one getting paywalled after it's already notorious expensive "purchasing" price would kill the franchise. Plus that requires making it always online. Then the developers LOSE money.

[@LackHapeLuis]

the fact theres nothing really new new.. Why no gas station part of the game they are big parts of a city.. old people homes, animal shelter, public recycling..

[@gingerbill128]

Paradox was favourite company , CK2 and EU4 were probably my two favourite games , they started going downhill and haven't stopped. Now if i see a game has their name on it i am not interested.

[@Unprotected1232]

Does every studio and publisher have to learn things the hard way?

[@johnarnold7984]

Apparently yes.

[@-JustHuman-]

Well Paradox don't care about Colossal Order, they did it to save their share prices.

[@jordanking7711]

Absolutely. To be fair though this shouldn't be on CO, because they would have wanted to take the time to fix the game, even if that meant delaying it. This is on Paradox for forcing their hand. Because even though Mariina DID say that they weren't going to delay the release of the game, let's be honest here. They were told to say that by Paradox. Nothing more and nothing less.

[@vanhoras3082]

They don't learn though.

[@Captain.AmericaV1]

They're also to blame for allowing paradox to do this​@@jordanking7711

[@humorinpolitics56]

Reminds me of the launch of KSP2.

[@ontoverse]

ooof, too soon ......

[@CoreyKearney]

They had the decency to put an EA label on it. They were forced to pair that with a AAA price. Even so the gaslighting from the studio lasted for months.

[@finng745]

“The developers were not given the time they needed” how about we don’t work with a publisher? How about we grow a spine? The developers are just as much at blame as the publisher. Please stop contributing to this modern day game industry gaslighting.

[@Pillock25]

7:27 God forbid the developers ever do anything wrong.

[@ronsandahl274]

You will never hear that CEO say that his biggest regret is shamelessly scamming players out of meaningful game content by creating DOZENS of expensive DLC - for the original game there is over $250 of DLCs. Nearly as shameless as The Sims. My guess is that this delay for mods is just this greedy corporation trying to find a way to money grab what the mods do into DLCs.

[@larrylindgren9484]

DLCs you didn't have to buy. Make sure you add that. No one forced you to buy 1 DLC. You chose to buy them. No one put a gun to your head.

[@CameraManBlaise]

if they went with stream workshop mods would already be available, but they are clearly preparing for paid mods.

[@SansSentiments]

I as a stellaris heavy modder disagree. The hoops you have to jump through to get 200+ mods working correctly are insane and thats a workshop issue. Be more positive and remember that Factorio has its own mod platform which just runs splenditly. Heck you have to use 3rd party software to merge all those workshop files into one modfile so you can actually multiplayer them, and HOPE TO GOD, that you and your mates are compiling that file in the same hour before somebody changes something on one of those mods throwing off your checksum. If they did, tough luck, everybody compiles again. In factorio on the other hand you just select all the mods you want ingame and everybody connecting to your server will just download the mods from the factorio servers w/o any further action needed. And then we did not even talk about mods that might go against Steam TOS (which I think will mostly be a HOIV problem)

[@BFTBGSFTST]

​@@SansSentimentsExcept Nexus exists and is better than both, so it is very suspicious.

[@SansSentiments]

@@BFTBGSFTST not a fan of nexus tbh and I don’t know how it’s better than the built in solution in factorio. Or what are you referring to with „both“?

[@MauseDays]

no shill@@SansSentiments

[@music_YT2023]

They aren't being humble, they are in damage control mode. Many of the big CS content creators had access to playtest the alpha/beta builds and were giving Paradox feedback for a good year before release. They were ignored and that discord shut down when they tried to escalate without so much as a thank you. The CEO stating that they are going to halt their paid DLC to finally introduce mod support is because they were reliant on modders to make CS1 playable (reskin packs, traffic manager, move it). The CEO is just admitting that they want the modders to fix the trashfire simulation that is CS2 for free.

[@larrylindgren9484]

They saw how Move It makes things so much easier to build a city. It's probably the number 1 mod. Why it wasn't added to the base game shows how they wanted modders to fix it. TM. Not just for the way it helped (nothing could really fix it it was so bad) terrible traffic AI. Being able to make stop lights, and lane arrows. Yet it was left out of the base game in CS2. Why they saw what people wanted because mod who could use mods used TM just for the traffic lights and lane arrow.

[@isturbo1984]

I'm tired of CEOs, devs and influencers on youtube always explaining away why this keeps happening. Gamers aren't so stupid. We all knew this game was broken. And people didn't buy it. Do better.

[@MatzWerk]

Shocking is that there are 30 devs only... I mean what is this CEO or Company doing?

[@garykelley9027]

"It was tracking pre release to sell absolutely shag all" Considering I had never even heard of Lamplighters until after you reported it was essentially DOA awhile back, maybe some marketing would've behooved them. Not sure if it would've helped as it felt a touch niche, but I might have given it a go. They set themselves up for failure on that one sorry.

[@LordPishPosh]

such a AAA move. push for "Next Generation graphics" and then forget to make a game while they are at it. gamers don't care about graphics nearly as much as gameplay. a good looking game is a nice to have but a fun challenge should be the primary goal

[@bigred6464]

"We need this game out for this quarterly report to show investors a profit, fuck next quarter, we'll figure that out next quarter"

[@JackDaloots]

We need Monthly reports of progress, and Monthly patches, in some ways, we're more demanding than the shareholders... lol

[@SereglothIV]

It kind of reminds me of SimCity situation actually. SimCity failed becasue instead of providing quality content they went into some weird life-service multiplayer with seriously restricted gameplay. Now Cities Skylines 2 flops because, again, instead of providing quality content and mods, they release a barebone game with intention of milking us with DLCs. (I still think that the lack/delay of mod support is a fully intentional way of 'encouraging' people to pay for DLC cosmetic packs instead of getting free mods that do the same thing)

[@larrylindgren9484]

DLCs you never have to buy. Make sure you add that.

[@lost329]

Yes, triage came from the Crimean war. Along with modern nursing from Nightingale.

[@RebelAstronaut55]

The game forum is heavily censored, they are banning a lot of people on steam. I am surprised that they didn't activated the OFF TOPIC REVIEW CARD yet.

[@marekkos3513]

Colossal Order is the biggest issue,not the publisher.They had the time , and they had the money.Paradox is just doing what they had to do.Colossal Order didnt have any idea , what Cities Skylines 2 have to be.The engine , the programers , the graphics designers , the game director and so on.They did a really bad job with Cities skylines 2.Even if you give them another 10 years for making this game , CS2 still would be broken and unfinished , because people working in Colossal Order had no idea what to do , and how to do CS2.Paradox gave them money !. Big money ! Colossal failed !

[@krzysztofneuman6293]

Sadly, Paradox philosophy has changed a lot since the first Cities Skylines

[@chadaycock6437]

I am someone who feels like they were tricked into buying Cities Skylines 2. My feedback for your video: Describing the simulation as 'impressive' and stating that it's a matter of 'tuning' is questionable. There is no telling how well the back end of that game is working, or if the economy and city services are actually driving any of the games features. Building roads and plopping down buildings are the only thing that works well in Skylines 2. I assume there is great deal of complexity in the simulation; but it is so opaque, inconsistent, and unresponsive that it might as well be a random number generator. We are ~4 months out after release, and very little improvement has been made that would make me believe this is a problem that can be 'tuned' to a fix. I am starting to believe that the underlying game systems are so fundamentally under-baked and broken that Skylines 2 will never become a functional game.

[@MauseDays]

they are likely lieing about the fetures ie committing fraud. But boomer judges are not tech people so theres no way to prove it.

[@happyaccidents156]

Would an early access release have avoided this issue? Early access to get the publisher some income and give the devs more time to finish the game.

[@XMysticHerox]

Avoided? No. A shit EA release is still going to get (deserved) pushback. But it would have been significantly less bad.

[@ayoCC]

And free bug testing basically lmao

[@DaxRaider]

biggest regret my ass ... they did cut steam modding which is the easiest and best solution NO ONE ASKED for their SPECIAL MODDING just give steam workshop back ... sry i am so pissed i bought every city skylines dlc and i played it SO MUCH and i preordered ultimate edition for CS2 and then ... i refunded it ... Its unplayable and since i not even played cs1 i am just done with this company ... fuck em... they dont deserve my time or my money they lost me and everyone i know refunded too ... they lost SO MUCH MONEY with this move ... they lost their whales

[@MauseDays]

the problom is there is no competition these days

[@pewpin1039]

"They will have" Ok. Someone talk about it when they actually release it. I have seen enough promises from the devs in the last 10 years to know that only what is actually released and out should be celebrated. Even all the was back to torchlight 2 big dev tools have been promised, and by the time the devs made good on their promises everyone moved on because they got sick of waiting.

[@CoreyKearney]

It's like they are going though the 7 stages of grief over their own failure. What is this, step 3? 4 maybe? What they need to do is fix their mess and stop begging for praise and affection every time they squeak out a minor bug fix. They need to Stfu. Get to work ans stop being so stubborn about a broken game with mechanics designed for mobile. Aside from the bugs there's just no depth to the game. It runs best if you watch it and don't intervene. It might as well be a digital fish tank. They need to admit that.

[@lyleugleman3773]

I used to be a big fan of Paradox years ago, but in recent years they just keep offering less and less while charging more. It's disappointing, as there's not many companies out there making deep strategy games anymore. This was such an easily avoidable failure on their part. It doesn't bode well for the future of franchises under their umbrella.

[@Pangora2]

Once Vicky 3 was just CK3 with different buildings I don't think I touched even an older Paradox title after that.

[@-Kidzin]

Paradox sucks but you can't fully shift the blame off the developer. They are plenty guilty themselves.

[@marekkos3513]

Just play Simcity 4 , which will always be the best city builder ever !

[@JackDaloots]

I miss the jazz.... and the clunky machine noises

[@pow1983]

All they had to do is utilise early access like they did with the first game. Why on earth did they think that doing it this way was a good idea

[@Awesomes007]

Their financial agreements prevented it. They doubled down on greed by not going EA.

[@pow1983]

@@Awesomes007 - whoops! They showed everybody how to do Early Access correctly with CS1. Big mistake imo

[@anaguma90]

It always pays to be a patient gamer. Will play this in 3 years when its good

[@MauseDays]

it will neve rbe good its a scam

[@anaguma90]

@@MauseDays then I'll never play it lol

[@JackDaloots]

I'd shorten that to 2 years. In 3 years, we may be watching a teaser trailer for "CS3: We think we uncrewed it! give us money"

[@Vegan_Kebab_In_My_Hand]

There is no hope for Paradox

[@sopek1427]

Doesnt matter what they feel. At the end of the day, game launched in a garbage stage

[@nicholaskinkaid]

Classic tale of the hero living long enough to become the villain.

[@OpinionatedHuman]

If Paradox wants this to be a real success they have enough resources to up the pace of updates and content.

[@OutshineUwU]

I had no idea it was possible to screw up Cities Skylines 2, but somehow they did it, props to them! Takes effort to do such a bad job.

[@SirFenV]

Feel kinda bad for CO to an extent. Paradox has gone so self-nuclear in recent times its insane. Just looking at the upcoming VTMB2 game and how horrible that's shaping up to be after swapping devs, infinite delays, 2 years of no communication... it really seems like any game Paradox touches is doomed to fail and I can't tell if it's the developers themselves (assuming Paradox is just unlucky at picking devs), Paradox being scummy and harming the devs ability to shape their games properly by setting unrealistic release schedules and such, or a mixture of both (which inherently, in my eyes, seems moreso Paradox's fault regardless).

[@goldenhate6649]

Vic 3 was the definition of 'we hear you like mirco'

[@LyricalDJ]

Has anything happened to Paradox? New management or something?

[@pomey13]

They even ruined Prison Architect, buggy mess with DLC's that add nothing but frustration to the base game. Now abandoned as they are making a rip off sequel that looks terrible

[@AetherNoble]

It seems to be a modern trend. The reality is publicly traded companies are literally controlled by shareholders, most of whom only seek profit (how many gamer friends do you know that hold significant stakes in any gaming company?). If the CEO doesn’t prioritize profits, they will be voted out by the majority consensus and replaced with someone that does. Even in privately owned companies, COs will grow old and retire, and unless they literally groom a replacement (eg. keeping it in the family), why wouldn’t they try to cash out as much as possible since it was their life’s work? This cash will go on to pay for grandkids and great-grandkids tuition.

[@xerr0n]

@@AetherNoble Modern? I dont think so. Look at stellaris- they came out with a near whole game and then cut out most of the stuff, which you now can buy as dlc(we had ringworlds before and then it was cutout and re-added as dlc), expensive dlc as well, as you can never find them under 5 bucks when discounted, and they are always only discounted by 50% max. Making your original purchase say 20 bucks, now IF you Really want the whole game, then youll need these 4-5 essential dlcs which will cost you another 50-100 bucks, and of course we have those Other DLCs for offer as well, erm say for another 100 bucks. and this has gone on for years

[@zizzyballuba4373]

it's so over for the CEO of cities skyline

[@tmg7476]

So the base game is now 10% off at Steam Spring sale but you can still buy Ultimate at full price. I would love to know how many takers they're going to have. Their tagline is "If you can dream it you can build it." As someone who doesn't use a lot of mods but does use tons of workshop assets, I don't expect to be able to do that until 2025 at best. And if the great CS asset creators give up and don't create for CS2 and new great creators don't come in to replace them, I may never get to that point. CS2 may forever be dead to me.

[@Awesomes007]

Her response is counterproductive and unnecessary. The only thing that might restore my faith is an announcement of changing leadership, changing development processes, spinning up a DevOps group, and creating test harnesses so they can do builds at will. This game was a massive disappointment and a fraud. They do not have the skills or ability or organization or passion or drive to create the game that we were marketed or the game and we had hoped for.

[@The_Beard]

Wanted to add that there ARE already mods for CS2, the community was not going to wait - I think most moders seem to have picked Thunderstore to host them so the community is already pushing ahead with or without CO. Second - keep an eye on Prison Architect 2 another loved IP under the thumb of Paradox - who wants to bet they have pushed that one out top early as well?

[@Janaerys]

Paradox really needs to do better imho. I am sad at what happened to Hairbrained Schemes studio with Lamplighters League. They are definitely talented folks, since Battletech was amazing. While I don't really know what happened in the background, I suspect publisher pressure probably had a big part to play in the end result that shipped and the poor sales afterwards. The impact is especially bad when developers who are out doing unique things others aren't (like City Skylines) are affected. Since the worst case result can be not just death of a game, but that of a whole genre. I don't know how many folks recall Sword of the Stars 2 (also published by Paradox). Till today, we don't have anyone daring to make a proper 4X space strategy with real-time tactical combat after that fiasco...

[@saladinbob]

Look, a lot of what you're coming out with is complete bullshit. I've worked in sales for close to twenty-five years, a large part of that is corporate sales, that is selling complex projects to mid-sized corporations, FTSE 250 companies. A customer will accept problems with a complex order, typically it's how you handle it. Whilst Colossal are doing the right thing being in regular contact with their customer, if I was to say it's going to take close to a year before we can get your project to you in a state fit for purpose, my client would not only cancel the project, I'd lose the customer entirely. Do not try to justify the decision to release bug fixes with DLC when the DLC typically is released twice a year. When it comes to complex orders it's as much about priorities as it is communication. Get the basic functionality working, then worry about add on features after that. I do not care about the game systems when I can't even play the game. Colossal's one and only priority right now should be fixing the game-breaking bugs like the land value problem which is a literal city-killer. Other bugs with education have huge knock on effects. A developer with crayons putting silly coloured lines in the game speaks to significantly skewed priorities, my washing machine is broke, you're telling me it'll be a year before I can use it, but good news! We fixed the broken light on the display. I have had orders go wrong, I have had to deal with customer fallout, but if I was as bad at prioritisation as Colossal is, I would have been fired years ago. They need get the game working and they need to get that fix out ASAP.

[@cyberexile3507]

cs2 couldve sold like 10mil, they dropped the ball soooo hard

[@Sublyminal83]

I went pretty hard into this game when it came out, but like Bell was saying, it didn't feel like my actions really effected things what happened in my city. First thing that comes to mind is how hard it was to get ppl into large/ low rent apartments.

[@bullbandit2799]

They should just have made the game finish. It's all on them, that they cant take the criticism they deserve is utterly saying about what way the company is going. Sad to see such a beloved studio become like all the rest. It was a joy while it lasted.

[@quixadhal]

If I were CEO, my biggest regret would be shoving the game out the door to make investors happy at the expense of having a game that would run well on current hardware, since that is the classic way you accomplish your short term quarterly report goals while gutting your long term franchise worth. Modding support is great and all, but having a game that doesn't set your graphics cad on fire is going to keep more customers playing while they wait for it.

[@JamesCurwood]

The "early access" route would solve a lot of problems. They'd get a lot more patience, and the feedback would be more natural. And I don't think they would have to charge less, as much as we'd hate it. They could probably even have charged more for early alpha access ....

[@locuus]

It's a typical Paradox release. They keep developing the same vast type of game that is practically unusable in later game as the map grows larger, and they rely on community modders to fix their problems. It's happened with every game they have ever done, but they keep getting a pass. Hopefully this wakes somebody up at the company, but I am not holding my breath.

[@MrMpa31]

Stop giving devs a pass. They screwed up this game. Did the publisher force them to publish when it wasnt ready? Yes, and they shouldnt have. But on the flip side, why wasnt it ready? Bad time management? Overscope? They were given a deadline and failed. If there was any accountability, the game would have been delayed until ready, and the production manager (or whatever title) shouldve been fired. And let's not forget, the devs said they hit their targets. So, maybe they just made a bad game.

[@aseroxd]

Agree. It's always: The poor fragile developers!! In the good old days they didn't come up with long lists of excuses, they sucked it up and fixed their..

[@jameslewis2635]

This seems to me like a Cyberpunk 2077 style situation. Leave the game on a shelf for two years going back to Skylines and then come back after the devs have had enough time to fix the situation. The devs and the publisher will have to do this if they want the series (their cash-cow) to continue. The biggest issue with regards to this is that opening up modding support is not viable until base game systems have been finalized in a solid state which, going from everything I have heard, is simply not the case with Skylines 2.

[@planescaped]

It is remarkable how quickly Paradox Interactive have gone from beloved to absolutely despised. Same thing happened with Embracer Group, everyone was super optimistic about them when they showed up. Just goes to show you that none of these companies give a damn about games or the people who make or play them. It's just a means of revenue.

[@nihilist_wolf]

I couldn't care less about the content creators. A lot of these same creators hyped the game up and collected a paycheck to help paradox sell their fans a broken product. There is no way these creators played a pre release demo of the game that was better than release, they knew it was broken and shilled the game anyway so screw em. The game itself was released broken on so many levels, simuation and optimisation is broken. I just want to be able to play the game cause right now i cant and I feel like I got robbed.

[@dasLlamas_94]

based

[@Langharig_Tuig]

The biggest problem is that this is just outright false advertisement. A criminal offense. But seemingly in the gaming industry that is taken very lightly. If you were to so blatantly falsely advertise a product in any other branch of industry you'd literally be facing prisontime within a year because it's an open and shut case of serious fraud.

[@AmurTiger]

I think it's also worth noting that the disaster of Lamplighter's League is entirely of Paradox's making. Hairbrained Schemes last published game, Battletech, was very well received and has a very active modding community working on it and stretching the capacity of the engine to do more things. They weren't allowed to make a follow up because Paradox didn't own the Battletech IP and wanted to maximize their margins on the game. Battletech was a great game that only just dipped a toe into re-creating the tabletop experience of Battletech, there was tons they could have done to build on that and make money, if only they had a publisher that gave a damn.

[@exospaca]

It impresses the hell out of me that some people thought it was worth buying a Paradox game. It must be so difficult to be operating under such an intellectual deficit, it is inspiring that such people were able to acquire the disposable income needed to buy a game.

[@KushanGaming]

I disagree that the developers shouldn't be blamed. They absolutely should, yes Paradox deserves a lot of the blame for not delaying the launch, but there are bad design decisions all throughout. That falls squarely on the developers shoulders.

[@steel5897]

Yup, they chose to focus on pointless simulation and rendering teeth, that took a lot of dev time, over making the core gameplay good. Always blaming the big suits is a reddit take, it's like people don't learn. Everyone blamed Activision for Destiny 2 issues, then Activision left and the game immediately got ten times worse with less content that costs more and monetization out the wazoo.

[@simmysims9209]

Paradox owns Colossal Order so there is no decision to developers to make when game is not ready and you still have to release it.

[@TelperionMt]

It sucks, but over the last half a dozen years Paradox Interactive has taught me, the consumer, not to pre-order or buy their games at launch. Doesn’t matter if the game is developed or only published by Paradox: there’s a giant “don’t touch” label on everything they do. That “don’t touch” is there at least a year or two after initial launch. After a year or two a game may be worth money, but not necessarily even then. For the smaller teams, like Colossal Order, that’s money out of their pocket regardless of what they do.

[@CAWinterfog]

This is just another case of the increasing examples of companies thinking it's okay to get you to pay full price for an unfinished game and work on it once it's released.

[@Awesomes007]

They didn’t just ship early, the have obvious organizational issues and no DevOps.

[@TENGILL]

They need to reach out to Hello Games and Sean Murray. They had a bad launch of there game and managed to re build it to the amazing game it is now.

[@edwardduda4222]

Honestly I wish they did with CS1 and had mods on the steam workshop. A large chunk of the player base is on steam, even though there wouldn’t be mods for console.

[@genericbackgroundcharacter8431]

I just feel sad, really wanted city skylines 2 to be great at launch but only it just need more time and it just rough

[@Murderbits]

As someone who spend $90+tax on a copy of it, I feel the same way.

[@maikodubuc8610]

With all due respect, It's getting tiresome to hear that PDX is to blame for the rushed release. It's a pretty sound assumption but why would CO's CEO admit openly that it was her decision to release the game at that point in time if she was pressured by PDX? She knew it would only put her on the line and had no reasonable reason to cover for PDX if this was the case. The way I see it, the dev team is struggling with the project, the game isn't fixable. That's why it was delayed , and that's why they haven't fixed the biggest problems even after 6 months. And the cherry on top was how they nerfed simulation speed to accommodate all the people who were complaining about performance. Of course a screenshot of a city will render faster than an actual simulation... but now, what's left of what was originally promised, I wonder...

[@terminalrex]

I'm really sorry but I think you are wrong. I believe that the ceo has been anything but humble, from calling her fan base toxic, to coming out with the 30 peopel is a small team excuse. It's all too little, too late, you also but the blame for the release solely on Paradox, where is the prove? I read another article, that said the CEO has said in an interview it was her choice to release in current state. For me it's not even the fact that they released a broken unfinished game. The PR from their CEO has been appalling, you can't charge triple A prices for a game and then whigne that your team is too small, hire more people. I'm hoping like what happened to sim city, another game will come out and blow skylines 2 out of the water.