Convention Centers, March Madness Style

Urbanism is big time now, and you better believe we're having a convention. So I scanned and analyzed all of North America looking for an ideal ginormous convention center to host an UrbanismCon for people who love to walk, bike, and honestly, just take lots of trains. What are the top seeds in each region? Watch and find out!
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[@CityNerd]

Comments are cool -- but people have already been commenting on this one for SIX DAYS (in my Patreon discord and on reddit) because that's how much earlier this video was available on Nebula! So if you want my stuff ad-free, promo-free, and early, use my custom link to get you 40% off an annual subscription. It really helps the channel! go.nebula.tv/citynerd Lifetime deal STILL available: go.nebula.tv/lifetime?ref=citynerd

[@AMPProf]

You should try out Gulf coast Mississippi.

[@AMPProf]

casino beach water ships shrimps and a shuttle sort of

[@tristanridley1601]

Sadly these are the only comments for me. Reddit earned their blacklist.

[@kjh23gk]

Where on Reddit?

[@KNosk826]

I was one of those early Nebula watchers! And since then I've been thinking that if you're actually considering hosting a convention on urbanism I think it would be worth doing it somewhere that isn't on your list. Like a smaller city working to make its urban environment better. Your convention is sure to draw people from big and small places. And choosing a midsize diamond in the rough could be instructive and aspirational for smaller cities without being overwhelming or unattainable. It's also good for big city people to see good things happening outside their bubbles. Those are my 2 cents!

[@sklegg]

No bonus points for the on site Cheesecake Factory in Seattle. 😑

[@gubieone]

I noticed that too. Thought for sure it would get a shout out for that.

[@GussyMate]

Rare CityNerd L.

[@CityNerd]

I penalized it otherwise it would've been the 1 seed

[@EditorVJAS]

not with how busy it gets during any sizable event. :P

[@colbypupgaming1962]

An urbanism panel at a furry con would probably get a HUGE attendance figure.

[@the_gaucho_amigo]

MFF had an urbanism panel last year that went really well! Lots of attendance, whole group went on the Blue Line to downtown for a walking tour.

[@colbypupgaming1962]

@@the_gaucho_amigo I'm not surprised at all. In fact that's the one con I'd imagine that'd have such a panel.

[@ratsbath]

The theme of last year's ANE was "Trains!" and the panel on the history of the MBTA was PACKED. Loved seeing the transit theming everywhere that con!

[@Carter1029]

​@@the_gaucho_amigoAww I wish I was there! I was only at MFF on Saturday and the panel was on Sunday! But I still had an amazing time there!

[@CityNerd]

For the right price I'll let people vote on what kind of fursuit I show up to the panel in. I'm easily bought

[@ronaldoakes7139]

One unspoken bonus of the Pennsylvania Convention Center is that it sits on top of the Reding Terminal Market.

[@GalpsPGH]

As a Pittsburgher, I wear the Rust Belt title with pride. I think we got pretty lucky here. It was too expensive in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to build massive highways everywhere with the terrain we've got, especially in a city that was losing population rapidly. They were basically forced to tax the shit out of parking (37.5% tax on every single transaction involving the parking or storage of a vehicle. It was 50% at one point), convert and upgrade some of the old streetcar system into light rail and build more compact busways instead of massive expressways in order to get people into downtown. When people have other options to get somewhere outside of a car and parking is taxed heavily, it turns out you end up with a downtown that isn't just a massive parking crater dotted with a few corporate office towers. Edit: Also, leave the Furries alone! They're harmless, brighten up the streets while they're here, and bring a good economic boost to the city every year 😂

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

Fellow Pittsburgher, and I agree with taking pride in the term Rustbelt. The country never would have been built out if it wasn’t for Rustbelt cities like Pittsburgh, and we have some seriously underrated urbanism. I only hope our Rustbelt cities can see a resurgence someday. There’s a lot of talk about a climate migration to these cities since they’re in places that are far better off from climate change than the rest of the country. Though our fastest growing areas are still those that are going to be most devastated from it, so I’m skeptical of that.

[@sethland]

Pittsburgh was fortunate to have enough base of institutions to remake itself around the information economy (tech, medical, and energy development). Not just CMU, Pitt, and various Carniegie and Mellon funded philanthropies (the Renaissance commission had some skeleton of strategy so downtown didn't completely die). Not everything was a slam dunk and I think PIT aged poorly, now requiring an expensive remodel. But Cleveland was very much a peer city in every way: size, economy built around manufacturing and a somewhat similarly reputed Case Western Reserve. But Cleveland didn't hold the frabric together quite as well.

[@phillygrunt2154]

Philadelphian here. I love our state 😊

[@Greenday5494]

Compared to Buffalo, another rust belt city, it’s amazing how well Pittsburgh’s urban fabric has held over the years

[@jspihlman]

You guys really are goated when it comes to mass transit options!

[@kiptoke]

I'd see why Boston's BCEC wouldn't make the cut due to pretty poor walkability and non-ideal transit connectivity with the Silver Line, but not including Hynes Convention Center is a real miss. - 99 Walk Score - 100 Transit Score - 86 Bike Score On top of being right next to a really vibrant neighborhood, easy connections to multiple Green Line branches, relatively close to Commuter Rail and Amtrak in Back Bay... Oh, and it's also a highway lid.

[@rrsafety]

I just posted the same. Scores of 100 and 99 are just ignored.

[@counterfit5]

The walkability for the BCEC can't be all that terrible, but it's certainly not close to Hynes in that regard.

[@MrIhatethisprocess]

@@counterfit5 nah, it's pretty bad. Driving isn't much better lol. We really botched that whole area just like I feared we would

[@MrIhatethisprocess]

It's surrounded by great neighborhoods! Back Bay to the north and east, South End to the south, Berklee/Fenway/Kenmore to the west, the Christian Science Plaza is right there, it's a nice spot!

[@andrew_ray]

I had the same thought. Easy access to the Green Line B, C, and D at the eponymous station, plus access to the Green Line E at Prudential and the Orange Line and Amtrak at Back Bay station without having to go outside! I wonder if Hynes got missed in the research, since it's not what's going to come up if you Google "Boston convention Center."

[@shubdotclub]

In a decade or so, the SF convention center will also be walkable to a california high-speed rail stop, caltrain stop and capital corridor stop (if we get the second transbay tube in time). It would probably become one of the most connected stations ever. The cool thing in the short-term though is BART and SF are paving more bike lanes in and around the areas to make it safer and easier to get to market street.

[@neckenwiler]

A decade or so is very optimistic, given the state of CAHSR :( I live in Oakland and have accepted that I won’t be able to take the train* to LA until I’m in my sixties. *In under eight hours, I mean.

[@CityNerd]

A decade or so you say. And I thought I was glass-half-full!

[@iamarizonaball2642]

@@CityNerdon a sidenote, despite being a furry myself, I like this idea. Phoenix Convention Center I don’t entirely know about it but…

[@williamerazo3921]

I love how Downtown Cleveland just buried there new convention center underneath the mall park creating a hill

[@DannyClevland]

Right?! I think it’s the most elegant of convention centers, and a great use of downtown space, since it’s literally just one big green roof.

[@BenriBea]

they have the green top

[@thexalon]

And I'd think it should score pretty well on transit connectivity - it's about 2-3 blocks through parks from the city's main transit hub, which includes a direct run from inside the airport, and even closer to the Amtrak station.

[@jamesmcguire4122]

It’s legit a good convention center with access to the airport via heavy rail (red line) and so many buses and BRT. It also looks out on to Lake Erie *and* has its own little farm next to the massive floor to ceiling windows.

[@josephschwarten6468]

I play baseball and frisbee on the time on that roof lol@@DannyClevland

[@legatus_newt]

Colorado Convention Center should get bonus points for the Giant Blue Bear statue that stares at convention attendees through the windows

[@cassinipanini]

this is incredible

[@PanikStudios]

What is with Denver and weird blue statues?!

[@ambertheater]

@@PanikStudiosthe city sets aside 1% of funds from all projects over $1m for public art

[@EngMadison]

NACTO last year was great!(though not in the convention center) Loved Denver, and loved the area near the ballpark.

[@bartphlegar8212]

​@@PanikStudiosNo kidding...They should move Blucifer to the Convention Center to stare at people. Great added horror attraction... 😏

[@fernbedek6302]

We need to find a way to be good at combining convention centres and stadiums, since they’re both useful, but empty about 85% of the time.

[@eamonnca1]

When Bolton Wanderers built the Reebok Stadium they built it as “a hotel shaped like a football stadium.” Their cash registers keep on ringing whether there’s a game on or not. Croke Park in Dublin has conference facilities built in as well as a museum. It has been done.

[@thatpersonsmusic]

St. Louis formerly had a stadium connected to the convention center, but the team has since left so the stadium is now just a oversized convention hall

[@mdhazeldine]

London's Earl's Court Exhibition Centre was the closest thing I've seen to that. It be a 15000 seat arena or an exhibition centre. The lower tiers of seating were removeable, and the upper tiers were permanent and above the roof level of the exhibition halls. Shame they knocked it down, but it was getting a bit old.

[@spewmuffin]

Tucson has an underground indoor stadium (think basketball/ice hockey sized) beneath the Convention Center.

[@bjf10]

We could just not have sports stadiums at all.

[@cameront27]

The Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta, GA should have at least got an honorable mention. There’s rail that connects directly to it and with development of Centennial Yards under works more retail and dining space will be added to the area soon enough.

[@ianmesey7321]

Market St in SF also runs vintage light rail cars from all over the US. That should be bonus points for transit nerds.

[@cuseyeti_one8three]

Yay! A moving museum that goes nowhere useful!

[@ianmesey7321]

@@cuseyeti_one8three Except that I use it often? Maybe not useful for you, but there's always people on it.

[@cuseyeti_one8three]

@@ianmesey7321 tourists use it. Locals really do not. It’s not a useful commuter line as it only goes along Embarcadero and from Market to Castro. Muni and BART already cover those routes quite extensively. There’s little to no reason to choose the F Line over alternates unless you want the tourist ride in the history mobile.

[@ianmesey7321]

@@cuseyeti_one8three I'm a local and this doesn't track with my experience. Are you confusing the Market St light rail for the cable cars at Powell? Edit: I hop on to ride it when I'm with my child because it's much easier and more convenient than going underground to a station. Plus there's a stop on my block vs walking several to the Church station or Civic Center. The folks I see on the train regularly are not tourists.

[@cuseyeti_one8three]

@@ianmesey7321 good for you, guy. Look, I’m not going to go round and round with a guy who thinks the F Line is a preferable mode of transit when several options exist in 2024.

[@Neotenico]

Finally a video where I knew Philly would be one of the top dogs. You can't beat having city hall, downtown dining, AND the SEPTA hub all within a few blocks of the Flower Show. Also thought it kind of strange that the walkability is just shy of 100 though, lol.

[@talicowart9577]

And Amtrak connects with SEPTA so you can take Amtrak to get into Philly and then SEPTA to get to the convention center. Two trains!

[@spacepeanut]

probably due to the convention center itself. when it was built, it made walking in the area honestly unpleasant with its impermeable walls and dark and grimy street tunnels through it. also they knocked down like half of chinatown to build it.

[@LeeGeorge08]

Philly should rank No.1 and a class above others for walkability. No other US city comes CLOSE, and that's not hyperbole. It's hard to grasp how lucky Philly is and this city might be too good to be part of the US nowadays.

[@Videowatcher10p]

Walk score isn't 100 probably due to 676 being close by

[@JineousJ]

Chicago was done dirty 😤 😤 I think the default address made it look like you had to enter McCormack through some back access roads, but the real front entrance (more like 2309 s king dr) gets a 73, 72, and 85 on walk, transit, and bike score

[@mapwheel00]

McCormick is just a little too far from multimodal transit to be considered one of the GOATs. Especially with how downhill the CTA has gone since the pandemic. I don't think it deserves to be a dishonorable mention, but I also don't think it deserves to be an honorable one, either. It's just a little too far from the train stations, a little too much of an ask on the bike paths for most people, and just a little bit too far from the more active areas of downtown.

[@adamhammond8379]

You got the metra electric station in the building! How is that not relevant?

[@brianantoniohuman]

McCormick though is a hike from nearly everywhere and the L is not convenient. The bus routes aren't bad. And where you gonna walk? The white castles on Cermack? Is it even still there? Lol

[@jameshughes6078]

I mean, fair point, but those numbers are still bad

[@tylerkochman1007]

@@brianantoniohumanthe neighborhood around it has good offerings now. The near south side and motor row have seen a lot of development since Rahm Emanual made it a goal to turn that area into an entertainment district

[@maxpowr90]

One thing I wish you took into consideration; is not just walkability and transit, but average hotel cost near said convention center: call it "commercial housing". That's just as important in choosing a location to have a con. It's why my city of Boston has been losing a good amount of conventions to other cities in spite of BCEC's good location.

[@canadave87]

Do any big North American cities have reasonably priced hotels anymore? It feels like they've gone way up everywhere I look. Heck, I couldn't even find any in Buffalo for under $200 a night when I was looking recently that weren't a 45 minute drive out of the city.

[@maxpowr90]

@@canadave87 Why I called it "commercial housing". Boston not only has a housing shortage but a hotel shortage too.

[@averyshaw2142]

Well boston convention center is also stuck in the an actual parking lot desert that all needs to be redeveloped into something useful, which hotels could be a part of. Theres also no sort of transit access other than the silver line. Its kind of a hike to walk to downtown as well. So honestly doesn't really compare to the others on this list. (and Hynes convention center holds like 8 people so it doesn't count)

[@maxpowr90]

@@averyshaw2142 The Silver Line is a Frankenstein. The MBTA is in such a horrible state, Wendover Productions did an entire long video on it. Eng is no miracle worker but the MBTA is slowly getting better. As a Masshole, NIMBYs stranglehold the state.

[@counterfit5]

​@@averyshaw2142there's like three or four hotels immediately outside the BCEC on D street. Westin, Omni, Aloft, and Element are all across a street at most, and the Seaport and Renaissance are not much further. I found some pictures I took when the BCEC had its first event in 2004, and the amount of development since then is incredible

[@themanyouwanttobe]

I went to a convention at the Vancouver convention center last month. Honestly, I pity anyone who doesn't take transit to a convention there. The trains are just so convenient. Also, the Harbour Air seaplane terminal docks just outside the convention center.

[@RushofBlood52]

Honestly thought Boston would make the list, but it might have similar problems to NYC or Chicago. Bike share, bike lanes, bus, and Silver Line directly out front. Ten minute walk to South Station for Red Line, Amtrak, regional bus, and regional rail service. And easy access to the airport through Silver Line. You have to walk a little bit to get downtown or Seaport, but there's tons around once you leave like a two block radius.

[@Lupy314]

Hynes cleans up by the standards used in the video though

[@RushofBlood52]

@@Lupy314 I was thinking BCEC because of proximity to the airport but yeah Hynes does, too. Also close to an Amtrak station.

[@VinceMcLennon]

I’m at BCEC quite a bit for work and every time I have to run nearly a mile down to seaport blvd to get any decent food for lunch (for dinner everything is just closed). The surrounding leftover industrial land uses are not doing any favors here.

[@davidtravis6438]

I expected to see hynes mentioned, but not bcec

[@richardtaylor8862]

BCEC is also pretty walkable to South Station, which is the main station for Amtrak and all regional rail to the South and West of Boston.

[@Jlivuk]

I like how you dissed the Orange County Convention Center near Orlando. In terms of a showcase for the area, the “dumpster fire” known as International Drive is what conventioneers get to experience. You’d think local developers would try to create a more upscale set of offerings nearby for all of the well-heeled attendees, but developers in the South aren’t the most cultured. So you get a Hooters instead.

[@schmitty8225]

In a year, Epic Universe will be right there but its still laughably inaccessable by anything other than a car.

[@Cincinnatijames]

It is the worst. I hate going there.

[@enjoystraveling]

What does dissed mean? Never heard that word, did you mean to spell something else?

[@enjoystraveling]

I know the automatic spellcheck changes the word

[@schmitty8225]

@@enjoystraveling It means insulted.

[@phillipwilliams3458]

Love the honorable mention for Baltimore! I live right around the corner from the Convention Center, and it is incredibly easy to get to, and get out of.

[@smknochs1]

Thank you for honoring the fine residents of DC and calling it National Airport.

[@DRL1320]

Amen. Forever National Airport to me. No union busters, thank you.

[@GeeEm1313]

It will always be National tp me. Now, only if we didn't have to call Dulles "Dulles."

[@dirtycommie2877]

Yup National or simply DCA.

[@owenstockwood5040]

As a bonus point for Philladelphia, the convention centre is also a former rail terminal.

[@ryanreed7688]

That entrance is a joy, especially since you can get from Jefferson Station to the convention without ever stepping outside.

[@TheFriendlyGod]

and Reading Terminal Market is right across the street!

[@letitiajeavons6333]

​@@TheFriendlyGodthat's why people at Philadelphia conventions gain 3 pounds. Reading Terminal is awesome, but every time I go I find a new way to convert my wallet to body fat by way of a restaurant or food option.

[@DRL1320]

There are no centres in Philly.

[@stephenhassler4596]

When I attended Penn in the early 80’s, the convention center was west of the Schuylkill River south of 30th Street Station, and what is now the Convention Center was the above ground Reading Terminal, whose commuter rail lines were not connected to the northeast corridor lines.

[@scottsnyder2726]

Yeah Philly! During its construction I was commissioned by the Penn Conv Center and Philly Visitor’s Bureau to create a visitor friendly map of CC Philly to be provided to conventioneers. It became and still is (with many updates) the visitor map to Philly. This was when cartography was going digital and high end graphics programs were emerging. It was a wonderful learning experience. There had been a lot of changes occurring in CC with no recent good maps and I remember walking many areas to survey the geography. Agree with others about its Convention Center high points - built in a former train shed. Underground access to rail/subway/subway surface lines. Reading terminal market next door. Chinatown a block away. Philadelphia City Hall, the best example of Second Empire Architecture in the world also a block away. Walkably central heading east to Independence Hall/Multiple US founding sites and heading west to Museum of Art/Museum and Fairmount Park sites. I would guess there are a hundred places to eat within a five minute walk.

[@jcmik]

Nice work!

[@Gemini.1997]

Hynes convention center in Boston, not upper tier but def honorable mention i think. Orange line and green line trams are 5 min walk away, very walkable, bikeable area in back bay

[@rrsafety]

Well, it’s upper tier. 99 walkability score, 100 transit.

[@thisisthecallus]

The orange line is definitely not a 5 minute walk from Hynes. More like 15.

[@andrew_ray]

​@@thisisthecallusDepends how fast you walk, I suppose, and whether you're aware that you can get there without going outside. If you go out the front entrance, it's a pretty decent walk because you have to go around the whole convention center. If you go out the back entrance into the Prudential Mall, on the other hand, it's a straight shot across the mall to Back Bay.

[@dennislaprade8039]

I remember doing a research report for an architecture class about convention centers, and my group had the Pittsburgh convention center. Little did we know that is has probably the biggest furry convention in the country and made it really hard at the time to find photos of the convention center that didn't have furries in the photo. We ended up embracing it and made the furries a part of our presentation.

[@Meefer]

Well, now you have to share this report. :)

[@57ttocs]

I recently had a conference in Portland and was shocked at how little there was to do near the convention center. I’m surprised that it ranked so high! I frequent the Colorado convention center and find it significantly better.

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

I really like Pittsburgh’s convention center. The walkability shows because the cultural district area of downtown is absolutely bustling with people whenever a convention happens. Though that does lead to some shock whenever I’m caught unaware the the massive amount of furries in the area during Anthrocon. The view of the Allegheny River and Northside is also really nice from the convention center.

[@joestrike8537]

What do you mean "massive"? There's only about THIRTEEN THOUSAND-PLUS of us 🐰🐺🐻🦅🐊etc who show up for Anthrocon every July. (Chicago's Midwest FurFest had 15K+ this past December,but since the convention center is out in the boonies by O'Hare airport, probably no one in Chicago has ever seen a single furry - not to mention the center's location probably nets it a minus-zero CityNerd rating.)

[@JhonnaCavite]

The gateway clipper can dock at the convention center, and pnc pk is very walkable over the Saint roberto clemente bridge

[@Justaguy689]

Fort Worth should’ve made it… it’s right in the middle of downtown, surrounded by walkable city blocks, and right next to the T&P TEXRail station

[@kuni2330]

Wow Philly actually beat New York in something, I'm so proud. Wasn't mentioned in the video but the convention center is also directly connected to Jefferson station via underground walking areas. You don't even have to step onto the street to get there if you arrive by train at Jefferson.

[@LeeGeorge08]

Philly is the model city for the US. It's better than New York in everything.

[@karikling6751]

I'm surprised Philly made it to number one considering the Convention Center is on Broad Street, which is a high injury network road, and the construction of the center contributed to tearing down Chinatown.

[@dannylittle6766]

Rail access for Columbus, OH convention center: go to the basement of the nearby Hyatt and hop a freight train. Light Rail access: enjoy all the abandoned trolley rails while riding on a scooter.

[@highnoon9333]

I was thinking about our convention center and it's definitely downtown and walkable, but yeah, nothing else.

[@baseballfan99]

In Manchester UK the convention centre is a beautiful former train station that shut in the 1960’s and years later was redeveloped. It looks beautiful in the city and fits it perfectly with its surroundings.

[@quiwi575]

No Hynes Convention Center? It has great scores walk:99 transit:100 bike:86 and like in the arena's criteria it blends fairly well into the surrounding neighborhood. (Maybe there's a minimum exhibition space criteria)

[@counterfit5]

Hynes is kinda small

[@jasperli]

Ottawa’s Shaw Centre has an LRT connection right next door. Once the Trillium Line reopens you’ll be able to take a 3-seat ride from the Airport onto Line 4 - Line 2 - Line 1 right to the Shaw Centre. Not only that, if it’s held in the summer there’s a bike rental shop underneath Rideau St by the Rideau Canal. They offer very nice bikes (Giant) and the Canal is has a very well used multi-use pathway as well as some protected bike lanes along Wellington St & Rideau St.

[@fernbedek6302]

Canada getting on each of the sections we could get on and two honourable mentions. Woo.🎉

[@AustinSersen]

Canada does punch above its weight class...maybe not in affordable housing, but definitely in capacity to host major events! If only Calgary's Blue Line were connected to the airport. That's the low hanging fruit until we can get the Green Line up there or regional rail.

[@arferbargel]

Still trying to get my head around Toronto being in the "Midwest"

[@fernbedek6302]

@@arferbargel “Great Lakes” is a much better term for it. Especially since ‘mid west’ should be, like, Montana and New Mexico since those are actually in the *west* of the continent.

[@tristanridley1601]

Consider that Chicago is the main hub city and it makes sense. Toronto and Chicago really are each other's rivals, we just won't quite admit it.

[@clipsburg412]

@@fernbedek6302 People regularly call Ohio and even Pittsburgh "mid west" lol, if Montana and New Mexico can be included then that just shows how meaningless this term has become for delineating geographical/cultural regions in the U.S.

[@awetstone56]

I’m really surprised Georgia World Congress center didn’t make it. It’s almost a straight shot with heavy rail from the airport with an almost attached rail station. Lots of places in walking distance including centennial park and all the tourist destinations. This downtown area is the event and hotel hub with access to things in walking distance but also connected to rest of city by rail.

[@poochyenarulez]

centennial park is very boring and dead. Its a decent walk to get to the downtown area.

[@LeeGeorge08]

Thanks CityNerd for ranking Philly at the top. I wish he would do a video on Philadelphia and how it's the model city for the US and the best city for urbanism.

[@anthonywong795]

What puts it above New York in your opinion?

[@LeeGeorge08]

@@anthonywong795 It's more pedestrian friendly (I'd rank it no.1 in the US) and most cultural attractions are better placed and easier to get to than NYC. For example, the major museums are a short walk away from Center City compared to NYC where you have to go all the way to Central Park from downtown.

[@hudson5112]

​@@LeeGeorge08 Agreed! Compared to NYC, Philadelphia's Center City is incredibly compact with just about everything one could want or need within walking distance. Also, Philly is America's most historic city and the only UNESCO World Heritage City in the U.S.

[@Low_pH]

Philly is also far more affordable than NYC

[@tkohler986]

Pennsylvania Convention Center sits above every SEPTA Regional Rail line as well as the Metro the L & T Lines to 30th Street Station (Amtrak). It is also above the Reading Terminal Market, with some of the best food anywhere. Short walk to Independence Mall. Nearby Chinatown culture.

[@secretagentcat]

if baltimore was given the money and help it needed from the state, it would be contending with the big guys, baltimore needs love and community.

[@mgrieser]

[@dirtycommie2877]

Agreed.

[@blushdog]

I think there was an expansion proposal in the 2010s but it fell through. Last i heard i think they wanted to do some upgrades?

[@hudson5112]

The Pennsylvania Convention Center in Philly incorporates the old Reading RR terminal which was the world's largest train shed when it opened in 1893. Visitors arriving at 30th Street Station on Amtrak get a FREE trip on SEPTA regional rail to Jefferson Station and the Convention Center/Reading Terminal Market.

[@beatleplayer1011]

Im surprised the Javits didn’t make the cut - it’s like 2 avenue blocks away from (the new) Moniyhan train hall which is directly connected to Penn Station - easy train access to Newark, Penn station has basically half of NYC’s subway lines plus the Javits is right next to the 7. You’re right that it is sort of a dead zone but you’re only two blocks away from regular old nyc

[@cinnanyan]

I've been to Javits before, it feels very car-oriented in that area by NYC standards.

[@counterfit5]

And on the way between the two, there's the B&H superstore 📷

[@AbeChang2]

The convention center in Sf Is great, I hope it gets a mention. Great bike access and some beautiful parks combined with it. Even got two train stations adjacent to it!

[@GD-my5hm]

Have you seen the convention center called WTC in Mexico City? The area is always pretty pleasant to be around as a pedestrian. It is in the middle of the city and has tons of rooms, and since Mexico city is so massive, every day there is something happening and people going in a out from early morning to late at night. Another important aspect is that there are tons of restaurants, cafes and a mini mall inside, so that contributes to the place not being ever dead. Also in the corner there's this place called Polyforum Siqueiros, which is a small but iconic place for concerts and spectacles, it also has some art galleries inside. Also, the fact that Mexico City is so big makes dedicating a space for a convention center a non-problem, I would imagine that smaller cities can't be as generous with how they use their land. Something I forgot to mention is that the convention center is built vertically, not sprawly, so naturally the footprint is much more smaller than the ones you presented in this video. I think what I just want to say is that these elements together can create a pretty solid "urban friendly" convention center.

[@rashakor]

I love the City Nerd but the blindness to data is problematic for Mexican cities to appear in these rankings. When the data exists it is a massacre! CdM tops every urbanism ranking in North America almost by default.

[@acrandal]

The transit map in Philly was astounding. I had no idea how dense that was. Of course I'm in a mid sized city that has a single electric bus line they call a BRT, but it drives with all the car traffic everywhere. Nice work, Philly!

[@AlRoderick]

Pros and cons for the Philadelphia convention center as an urbanist meeting: Pro, high probability meeting Rocz. Con, high probability of fighting Liam.

[@Koutousov]

You missed Quebec City for east as an honorable mention. Fantastic location near the old town with a 99 walk score, 73 transit and 71 bike score. If the tramway ever get built, it would also have it's station.

[@danatmatchvox]

sorry language a minus

[@chrisjohnson7929]

@@danatmatchvoxLanguage not an issue.

[@cascadian4250]

Damn. The west is indeed strong when a Seattle convention center that lids a highway and is a block away from a light rail stop with airport connection gets an honorable mention. West coast is truly the best coast.

[@Churro_Douglas]

Plus it is just across the street from a very fine dining establishment

[@sterlingmarshel6299]

he deducted Seattle's on-bike score - which is a blind spot from Citynerd's pure data-driven conclusions.. He missed that you exit the Cap Hill Station and rent a scooter/bike for a whopping 11 min travel time to Convention Center

[@sleedgear]

Kind of surprised the Charlotte Convention Center wasn’t mentioned. It has a light rail connection passing right through it and it is close to just about everything you may want to walk to in Charlotte. Maybe still not top 4, but maybe an honorable mention in the South

[@mxg75]

Boston’s got two convention centers. The older one, Hynes, is is a good commercial neighborhood, with a direct connection to the Prudential Center Mall, but the convention center itself is small and has a poor layout for crowd flow. The new convention center, BCEC, was a built on a brownfield site on an old rail yard. It’s a great building for holding events, but the front door faces the trench used for Mass Turnpike to descend into the Big Dig tunnels. There are limited food and hotels in the immediate area. Ideally, they’d have the new convention center on the old site, but there’s no more room.

[@tristanridley1601]

Toronto had that problem, so expanded underground and under the railway.

[@john.m.shukites]

I don't know the walk or bike score but I feel like America's Center in St. Louis may have been worth an honorable mention, perhaps even more so than Winnipeg. It is on Washington Avenue which is an old urban corridor with quite a few attractions along it and is serviced by Metrolink commuter rail with direct connections to Lambert International Airport as well as the Gateway Multimodal Center which is served by Amtrak.

[@rorypaul153]

It’s easily better than WPG, KC, and probably Milwaukee too.

[@DataLaur]

Pretty blown away Boston Convention Center wasn’t included!! Last time I was there I stayed in South Boston, had a nice 0.8 mile walk (and MULTIPLE Dunkin opportunities) to the convention center, and very easily walked around both the Seaport District and made it to downtown. I even took the T a couple of times-after 9pm!-which when I lived in LA was past my “take the train” bedtime.

[@lizcademy4809]

I used to be a regular at the SF con in the Westin next door ... the "nice 0.8 mile walk" is too far any time the weather is bad, meaning all winter, part of the summer, and random rainy days. You really want interesting things to see and do across the street, or at most, 1/4 mile away. Transit is just okay too, with only one T line (plus a very windy walk) and a few random busses. The T is safe enough, and does connect to everything, but it's slow and requires changing trains to get to anywhere more lively. My current city, Minneapolis, is definitely better. The convention center is on the Skyway, though at a far end. At the right time of day, you could take the light rail from the airport downtown, walk 1/2 block, get into the Skyway and walk the rest of the way indoors. There's also a free bus on a car-free street between the two. Downtown isn't as lively as it was pre pandemic / George Floyd, but it's still interesting enough for when you're not in the con.

[@rrsafety]

The correct answer is the Hynes downtown.

[@andrew_ray]

As a Bostonian, I am completely unsurprised to see no mention of Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. Other than people who work there, locals avoid the place like the plague for its poor transit access and bad walkability. Hynes Convention Center, on the other hand, I expected to get at least an honorable mention.

[@Low_pH]

It's so disconnected from Boston. You're left with the overpriced stuff in seaport

[@LoveStallion]

Glad to see Pittsburgh get some love. It has a great downtown.

[@charlies77777]

Some more pluses for the metro toronto convention centre -> it's connected through the PATH system to Union (plus everything else that's on the path), and it's near the Rogers Centre, Scotiabank Arena AND the CN tower. It's also a ten minute walk from the lakefront (including the Toronto islands!).

[@GojiMet86]

Jacob Javits will forever leave a sour note on me for one big reason. An acquaintance (let's call him Bob) once had a little booth for an event, and he asked me to help set it up, pay me $30 an hour. We were just gonna put up a kitchen counter. Some 30 mins in, one of the union guys spotted us, and he pulled Bob aside. A couple of minutes later, Bob comes back and says either we stop and let the union do its thing, or they would call security. They wanted to charge $180 an hour for that; it's a remnant of the mafia. An older friend who's an engineer also told me that back in the day ('80s and '90s) they were charging like $120.

[@sterlingmarshel6299]

truth- We did furniture shows there and its a nightmare. The amount of breaks and slow-moving individuals milking the clock was mind-numbing.

[@yizhouwang3645]

St Louis Convention Center. Walk Score 95, Transit score 61 and bike score of 56. An air-rail link and nearby train station sees five trains a day to Chicago and two trains to Kansas City

[@mattslaboratory5996]

Vancouver is a notch above all the others. It's a great destination while visiting the city even without a convention going on.

[@blorpblorpblorp]

Seriously. They have an apiary on the green roof! What other city's convention center has a beekeeper on staff?

[@spicy_mint]

Not quite at the level of green roof but a large part of the Toronto Convention Center is buried underground with a large park to the south and regular city life on the other sides

[@JeremyHaak]

@@spicy_mintProbably the largest part, really.

[@EditorVJAS]

@@spicy_mint I live in Vancouver and have gone to the VCC many times, but I used to also need to go to Toronto twice a year for industry trade shows. While I personally prefer the VCC, the advantages the TCC has is in the shear size of space available, which is incredible and has so much more flexibility for event sizes.

[@zachariahbianchi1201]

It needs to be at the Hynes Convention Center in Boston and it is criminal to leave it out of this video

[@cmdrwilkens]

As a Baltimorean I'm happy to see us make the honorable mention list though I think for Urbanism-con we might score higher since being smaller than a lot of the other big name East Coast centers makes it a much cheaper con proposition. Only downside is that since the Inner Harbor is struggling at the moment its more challenging than it was a decade ago to truly get a great con experience though there is some hope on that front (and also some major Penn Station/ NEC improvements which would make the to/from travel more enticing).

[@Threshingfloor814]

You should have included Mexico. Expo Guadalajara is one of the best, mainly because of "La FIL" International Book Fair. It's a Mecca for public intellects in the Spanish-speaking world, held every November.

[@Marrcl]

Winnipeg mentioned raaaaaa 💪💪walk score 99 stabbing score #1 😫

[@chrispontani6059]

You overlooked the big feature of the Pennsylvania Convention Center: the preserved Reading Railroad train shed. Track marks in the floor show where the old platforms lined up. And the big arched roof is a great architectural feature. That should make up for the lost walk score point.

[@rafaelcervantes4143]

You do have an audience in Mexico, even if it's an audience of 1 (me)! You're the only urbanist creator who doesn't fall to the anglospheric bias and remembers us when discussing North America. Bonus points for being the only one who groups continents and the countries inside them the same way FIFA does :P

[@emi1e]

This is literally the best video you've ever made.

[@awilder87]

Haha, the way I paused the video after you did the Midwest to look up Chicago only to continue to watch and see it as a dishonorable. It is quite tragic that the Drive separates the center from the city and trains. I also thought about the Madison Convention Center, doesn't have rail or BRT in the city, but it's on the water, right downtown and walkable. Happy to see Milwaukee on a list of positives and Philly is definitely one of the best in the region. Great video as always.

[@stefanbrylski2385]

Also for Monona Terrace (Madison), lakeshore bike trail, and the rooftop overlooking the lake is open to the public when not reserved for events.

[@radishpineapple74]

BRT is in the works

[@tylerkochman1007]

Monona Terrace doesn’t really need rail to access a lot of the city’s main offerings. You can go by foot or a short bus hop to most.

[@TimeTravelingBunnis]

I love and work in San Diego's Convention and Banquets industry. I'm always happy to have a City Wide. Weathers great! We definitely need more trains, but between Mission Valley/Mission Bay and downtown we have enough hotels to keep you in bus/Ride Share/walking distance. And 25k people, we have lots of experience with much larger conventions than that.

[@matthewconstantine5015]

Philly & DC were the first two I thought of when I saw the subject.

[@burkec33]

Good to see Philly rank favorably. Part of it is in the revamped railroad station, which gives it some historical and architectural interest. The previous convention center was located in University City and would certainly have been near the bottom of the list.

[@christophehorguelin7044]

Montreal’s Palais des Congrès is on a freeway lid, above a metro station, right in Chinatown (a tiny Chinatown) and across the street from Old Montreal and the Place d’Armes. Therefore I find your comments a bit harsh, even though numbers are numbers. 100 walkability, wow!

[@DRL1320]

Mon bon mec, dude just raved about y’all’s convention center. I’m talking about a CONVENTION. CENTER. And he loved it.

[@arferbargel]

I think it's just a testament to how many good areas Montreal has that aren't "downtown". Though I have to admit his comment made it sound a little like he didn't realize Old Montreal is literally across the street.

[@paul1993willy]

L’est du Palais des Congrès plombe vraiment l’expérience par contre. Un jour, on arrivera à avoir notre extension et on pourra le connecter à la Place des Montréalaises

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Manchester (UK) has a conference centre that made from a disused railway station and that works well, there is still a station about 5 minutes work away and it's very impressive with a huge csnopy and lots of space.

[@talicowart9577]

You missed the other key factor for Philly, Amtrak has a Septa stop right next door so you can take Amtrak to Philly, hop on SEPTA to get to the convention center.

[@LeeGeorge08]

SEPTA Regional Rail is a role model for transit systems. You wonder why no other city had the idea to build an S-bahn type system Philly has.

[@faolitaruna]

1:45 This is a gorgeous shot. I love how oblique shadows break the vertical lines. It amazes me that we can get such quality outside of a movie.

[@ccudmore]

Shaw Centre in Ottawa (since Ottawa is bigger than Winnipeg): Walk Score: 98 Transit Score:92 Bike Score: 91 Also for Orlando, wonder if the convention cenrers at Disney World would rate any better. Nothing better for transit than having a monorail go right through the convention center at the Contemporary.

[@colleensmith4027]

Yay Ottawa!

[@flargus7919]

Also, Ice Skate Score: 100* Boat score: 100 * Provided it is cold enough for the Rideau Canal to freeze

[@c.a.mcmullen7674]

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU MISSED BOSTON'S HYNES CONVENTION CENTER!!! Sorry for e-shouting, but Boston's older, better convention center is an urbanism ideal. Walk scores of 86 biking, 99 walking, 100 transit (nestled between all four branches on the Green Line plus a half-mile indoor walk to Back Bay Station: Orange Line, most south side regional rail, and Amtrak's NEC). Straight shot on green and orange lines to North Station (north side regional rail, Amt4ak Downeaster) and the Garden for a Celtics or B's game. A vibrant urban mall attached AND lively urban street out front. Between two archicturally significant neighborhoods, close to downtown, next to the symphony, Berklee College of Music, New England Conservatory, a post office...walking to distance to shopping streets, architectural landmarks, Fenway Park, the Emerald Necklace, the Charles River, including sailing in the warm months Nearby bus to Harvard and MIT for easy nerd transfers. And nearby businesses are a mix of chain and independent, so all tastes catered to. Walk from a dozen hotels. And a single transfer to the airport or commuter ferries. The only question is, why host it anywhere else? Anywhere that beats these scores should be permanent host venue. The newer, bigger one in the Seaport District is far less urban and convenient. It's primary access is the Silver Line BRT ("Better Resort to the Train") tunnel, which has a 5 MPH speed limit and which the busses exit to take the car tunnel to the airport -- after a 10- minute switch from electricity and circling the block to access I-90. Just go to Hynes! Despite the glaring oversight, great video. Agree on Montreal, plus it's a 5-minute walk through the underground city to Place des Arts and the Green Line -- the only good use of the underground city, so you tourists can check it off your list. 🙄😅 And Javits is totally weird...

[@wesleychaffin4029]

SAN DIEGO MENTIONED!! Comic con is a huge deal here and even though I'm not a big comic fan its always fun to go to bars during comic con week and see everyone decked out in cosplay

[@blondfuz]

Pretty, but a Wast of waterfront space

[@alquinn8576]

bunch of nerds

[@Immudzen]

I was at a conference at the Orlando conference center. I fully agree that walking anywhere around there SUCKS. I think Florida just hates people walking in general. I recommend avoiding the state if possible.

[@ricksocki6101]

I like Houston…but be sure the “imaginary” convention is between November and April. Nice video, something I’ve often thought about. I’ve been to most of those except Portland, Vancouver, New York and Las Vegas. My favorites were Pittsburgh and Houston…and of course San Francisco.

[@GregOughton]

As a winnipegger I'm surprised we got an honorable mention! I guess our division just doesn't have much competition 😅

[@lunogyt]

Damn I was hoping Baltimore would make the list! Glad we got an honorable mention tho, it's a nice amenity to have when an interesting event pops up in the space. If the red line ever actually gets built I'm sure it'll be even more convenient

[@gschweiger]

Was at a convention in Baltimore last year. I was pleasantly suprised at what was walkable around the Convention Center and inner harbor.

[@lunogyt]

@@gschweiger if you ever find yourself back there make sure to check and see if there's an O's game happening! The ballpark is right across the street from the convention center and they're just fun to go to

[@ericharrison2087]

Providence was probably too small to make the list, but its convention center is steps from every bus route in the state, a few blocks from Amtrak & MBTA, and gets a 97 walk score and 86 bike score. We do have a train to the airport but it only runs a handful of times daily unfortunately. As a supplement, there's a half-hourly to hourly express bus to downtown (RITPA 66) along with 5-6 local buses per hour (RIPTA 1 & 20) that eventually reach downtown.

[@tristanridley1601]

Actually undersold Toronto's convention centre, though I can see why if you've never been there. The building actually continues underground, under the rail corridor, and has a south entrance that's full of wide open pedestrian areas serving tourism spots like the tower and stadium and harbourfront. The walk (or streetcar ride) from there to the downtown airport is one of the most scenic in the city and one my StrongTowns group did at our first meeting.

[@lazyidiotofthemonth]

You forgot that the Minneapolis Convention center is park of the Skyway System. It makes a huge difference during a heatwave or in the winter.

[@rowanbixler4700]

Dang, no mention of Devos Place in Grand Rapids, MI. I knew it was a reach but I would LOVE to see a bunch of urbanists descend on my city 😂

[@bkmontgomery]

I’ve heard you talk about work score many times, but I finally plugged in my Memphis-area neighborhoods and got exactly what I expected - sadness. 😣

[@MiraMor11]

What about Boston, the hinz convention center is right in the Back Bay, and the other one is in the seaport (not as well connected though)

[@owendriscoll3440]

You should’ve mentioned Milwaukee’s BRT, the Connect 1! It run right in front of the convention center on Wisconsin street.

[@iansilk3700]

Omitting Ottawa from this is a travesty. Walk score of 98, bike score of 92,

[@nickgooderham2389]

Won world's best convention center in 2021.

[@arferbargel]

YOW link cannot be imminent enough...

[@Zalis116]

I do wonder how the Donald E Stephens Convention Center in Rosemont, IL (suburban Chicago) would rate. It is close to O'Hare and the train line servicing it, but the walking/biking environment isn't great. It certainly was an adventure walking between the venue and nearby hotels, crossing freeway ramps along the 6-lane stroad that is Des Plaines River Avenue.

[@Marquipuchi]

No Hynes Convention Center? I've been multiple times and its got a pretty central walkable location, and its right on a green line stop, and it has internal connection to an orange line stop via the prudential center/copley.

[@jamesmcguire4122]

Downtown Cleveland convention center is a legit a good location with access to the airport via heavy rail (red line) and so many buses and BRT. It also looks out on to Lake Erie *and* has its own little farm next to the massive floor to ceiling windows.

[@scpatl4now]

Ok...the Georgia World Congress Center has a walk score of 90, Transit score of 80 with heavy rail to the airport. Why is it not on the list for the South??? Upon further researching, I'm not sure how they do a walk score but the Convention Center gets a walk score of 35 while one block away, South Downtown has a walk score of 90. Something does not compute with these walk scores

[@charliesullivan4304]

There's also at least more more central convention center in Atlanta that I think would have done a lot better. I hope so anyway, since I'm slated to go to a meeting there next year.

[@liskaliska9148]

Same with Charlotte too, as yall's little sister city, ours is right on the light rail and in the middle of Uptown...

[@teasy2518]

Honestly, I thought Atlanta would rank first for the South. None of Texas has rail access to the airport, whereas Atlanta boasts the fourth largest convention center in the country (second in the region after Orlando) and is linked by rail to the world's largest airport. However, the Walk Score is disappointing because the "main" entrance is farthest from the street grid. I suspect this was intentional (to move traffic away from downtown), as I've always used the MARTA station concourse entrance rather than the Northside Ave entrance (I thought that was the primary entrance all along 😅)

[@charliesullivan4304]

@@teasy2518 I think part of what this highlights is that it's smart to plan a conference in a venue that's no bigger than is needed for the expected attendance. Otherwise the problem is sort of analogous to driving an oversized pickup truck to carry one person and a small bag.

[@orthrus4490]

​@teasy2518 dallas has a rail connection to the airport. It requires a transfer if you get on at the convention center station, but the transfer station is within walking and especially biking distance of the center

[@eructationlyrique]

the Montreal Convention Centre is also less than half a mile from the green line and Gare Centrale

[@michaelvickers4437]

Should have also got mention that it too is built over an autoroute, so less waste of prime land. Also, Ray, while much of that part of downtown Montreal is pretty forgettable, just the other side of the highway is Vieux Montreal. Although very touristy now, it's an interesting example of how a large area of older buildings was preserved out of sheer neglect, until such time as there was a renewed appreciation for the value of heritage districts for tourism and for upscale living. Think NYC SoHo or Boston's North End.

[@kingstonsean]

I would have nominated Place Bonaventure, Montreal's original convention center.

[@AlexWohlbruck]

no charlotte mention? they have a light rail THROUGH the convention center, a perfect urbanist utopia! /s

[@mouse_704]

NC also got grouped with the east😔

[@JamesVanD]

He's done an episode on a quick visit to Charlotte, but seems to have a general bias against NC cities. I'm ok with that, we have enough people moving here anyways, no need to drum up more interest. You're right though (despite the sarcasm), there are interesting things within walking distance of the convention center there, including a great greenway system downtown and good restaurants.

[@jerndough]

​@@mouse_704 that explains it, I thought for sure we would get an honorable mention in the south at the very least!

[@zoicon5]

Yes, I've been to the Charlotte CC and it's in a nice area with light rail to the airport and all. If he'd put NC in the South it would have beat Austin in my opinion anyway. I went to conventions in Charlotte and Austin in consecutive years and Charlotte was much nicer.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Need the Silver Line from Monroe through downtown to the airport (and on towards Gastonia) to make the cut, IMHO. Can't make the playoffs without an airport connection.

[@AB-wf8ek]

I was wondering the whole video if Philly's convention center was going to make it. You can easily walk to Chinatown, Reading Terminal Market, Fashion District, etc. Lively places with a million spots to eat, shop, or hang out.

[@fafnirvt]

So shocked to see Kansas City mentioned kinda positively for once! If it's worth anything, there is a bus line that connects downtown to the airport. It only runs every hour on the hour, but something to keep in mind for the rare spots of car-free convenience.

[@rorypaul153]

It shouldn’t have been on the list

[@lyndakorner2383]

Ideally, the convention center is part of a compact and walkable airport, which has a train station that allows for 5- to 10-minute connections to the pedestrian- and bicycle/N.E.V.-friendly city center.

[@tristanridley1601]

Interesting concept. You're saying since it primarily serves out of town people (and assuming they come by air) that connection should be the top priority, and not place it IN downtown since it isn't always downtown friendly. Interesting fact, Toronto has a second convention centre that totally could be what you're asking for, except it's too locally car dependent and not quite close enough to the airport.

[@lyndakorner2383]

Yes, convention centers and airports both usually create border vacuums, which are terrible for cities, so one might as well put both of these uses together and connect them by rail to the city centers.

[@lyndakorner2383]

One of the other advantages is that a convention center may be able to help generate ridership for a new rail line to a currently underused airport. I'm thinking mainly of San Bernardino International Airport, which was constructed on the site of a decommissioned U.S. Air Force base and which lies 1.5 miles away from a huge transportation hub that combines multiple Metrolink regional-rail lines (including 60-minute express service to and from L.A. Union Station), the Arrow transitway to and from the University of Redlands, the sbX transitway between San Bernardino State and Loma Linda Universities, multiple freeway-running express buses, California High-Speed Rail to and from Los Angeles, San Diego, and Ontario International Airport, several other modes/lines, and, potentially, Brightline high-speed rail to and from Las Vegas, as well as a high-speed rail extension to and from Phoenix/Tuscon. The former military base has a couple of interestingly designed clear-span buildings adjacent to the three airport terminals, and these structures have the potential to be converted for use as part of a convention center, which seems as if it would hold unique synergies with the airport.

[@jonnyminogue]

I’m surprised neither Boston convention centers made any list with such high walkable and transit scores

[@jeffreygleeson2444]

Did I miss the NorthWest honourable mentions? Ottawa's Convention Centre is intergrated into a well performing mall, with indoor access to the O-Train. Great intergration with the urban form.

[@Ilovedogs-mf7cd]

Just saying... The Lancaster County Convention Center. Check it out. It has a really cool tourist destination located *inside* the convention center.

[@danielcbraga]

@citynerd great video as usual. One suggestion on the editing: add transition slides/vídeo elements when you change topics (in this video regions, or seeds vs honorable mentions). I needed sometimes to rewind a few secs just to check what category you were talking about. Keep up the good work

[@pawsgerby]

ppl love to hate on Frisco. but it’s truly a beautiful city from every urbanism metric, especially by North American standards

[@michaelkiesling8148]

Moscone in San Francisco is the only one that is predominately underground, including almost all the loading access. The recent expansion reduced the auto forecourts and added new halls in buildings at a size and scale similar to the regular urban fabric. Amenities on the roof or above underground halls include museums, parks with lush landscaping, an ice rink, bowling alley, and bizarro cinema multiplex/foodcourt that was much cooler when it included huge bespoke video arcade and a Sony Store chuck full of unique (pre iPod) electronics. View Moscone from mid-block on Mission Street and all you see is a park. The camouflage of the center to fit into a downtown without generating blocks of "decorated" blank walls should give it extra bump for the win.