Civilization 5 - Filthy's "Filler" Social Policy Guide

[@wquarton]

This guy should be involved in the creation of the next civ. Balancing issues fixed could make this game the next starcraft.

[@cryeredd7563]

The next starcraft, pffft

[@PenguinODoom]

@@cryeredd7563 I think starcraft was big back then, shit died though.

[@TheWarriorGreat]

@@PenguinODoom It's not dead just less popular, besides people love watching starcraft but they don't like playing it.

[@MrJeanNunes]

i dont know. civ is not a rts game, and for this reason doesnt require a lot of mechanic skill. what could be really fixed is the multiplayer dynamic, which in civ v is really messed up. for a lot of times it seems like civ v is a singleplayer only game and the multiplayer was added by a mod, its full of bugs and connection issues

[@hommhommhomm]

eerm no :D starcraft is like a 20 minute e-sports event that people love to watch

[@TheUSASpy]

Honor: 6:20 Piety: 11:37 Patronage: 14:40 Aesthetics: 19:53 Commerce: 24:32 Exploration: 28:55

[@baykutTr]

god bless

[@Williaem00]

You’re a beauty

[@joeessen1059]

Thanks

[@Gemwielders]

Thematically I love how piety is strong enough to delay rationalism :)

[@DovahTank]

I thought the same thing.

[@christopherjohnson2634]

I'm sad that huge elements of the game, social policy trees, victory types, ect. have to be thrown out if you want to be competitive in multiplayer games.

[@candy-ass4915]

Rationalism is just too stronk.

[@RamonMartinez-ny7rg]

Is just like real life, science is the most important thing to any human society.

[@markfahey3023]

Rule of law is by far the most important aspect of society without it everything falls apart. Engineering/infrastructure as well but it's hard to separate that from science and you could argue they are one in the same.

[@1776_was_great]

play with a friend on a team against bots, play with some predetermined rule set, also turn on raging barbs and random personalities, it makes the game so much fun

[@Potato-pq5ez]

@@markfahey3023 One could argue that science is simply knowledge, and in that case science is at the heart of everything a society does to function.

[@sirperson362]

The 1-3 policy formula is overlooking one factor: Casmir of Poland.

[@Henriki2305]

SirPerson 36 ayy lmao

[@kylegordon1520]

Or Brazil/France lol

[@arc2379]

SirPerson 36 *Finishes all nine trees and the ideology before you've completed three trees

[@gefitrop3496]

Tradition+Liberty filled can be huge

[@MohammedAbdelhamed]

Patronage finisher pushes the counter for your great people btw, so it's even more crappy than it should be, just the possibility of getting a great merchant "gift" is enough to make me hate that finisher with passion.

[@FilthyRobot]

Mohammed Abdelhamed DIdn't know that, thanks for sharing.

[@correctorer]

+ignavus Have you ever heared about Sweeden? Sweeden is a beast having the patronage finisher.

[@ChevaliersEmeraude]

Patronage is really only if you want a Diplomatic victory. It's great for that. Heck, what's with the hate toward Great Merchant? Those gives you a TON of money AND influence over a city, which again is what you want for Diplomatic victory.

[@MohammedAbdelhamed]

in vanilla civ 5, great merchant, scientist and engineer share the same "counter", getting a great merchant pushes your next great scientist and engineer back; both of which are extremely more valuable (especially the scientist) than great merchants. Also this is filthy video, targeted to MP side of civ, where you cannot realistically win a diplomatic victory unless you are playing with morons, as normally people will perma-war each other at some point in the game making it impossible to change a city state alliance thus making the city state side of the great merchant irrelevant.

[@lgh1551]

@@ChevaliersEmeraude Lol without commerce policy that doubles gold, the great merchant is easily the worst great person in the game, only second to a great admiral in pangea map type.

[@Sh0tgunJust1ce]

"And I don't know what this squealing is, but I wish it would shut up." Always gets a laugh out of me.

[@FilthyRobot]

+Sh0tgunJust1ce ;p

[@sizzle5775]

Obviously Honor -> Piety -> Exploration is the best social policy build

[@leandrooliveira3070]

Lol

[@riptide3340]

Isn’t this how the Crusades started?

[@sizzle5775]

@@riptide3340 They'll stay everlasting as long as I live

[@ChrisStoneinator]

I dunno, I'm partial to the Agility bonus from the Intuition tree myself. Synergises nicely with Monado Speed

[@dzunglong4034]

I tried Scholasticism once. In industrial - modern era it takes ~ 30 allied city states to match the science output of my one Venice city without observatory (pop about ~30). So each city state can give you about 3.3% science boost. Yes it's very bad

[@clearlenscap9707]

patronage + Greece = win

[@clearlenscap9707]

although Greece could use some commerce

[@clearlenscap9707]

***** For Papal supremacy?

[@clearlenscap9707]

but still, patronage is priority as piety is only indirectly for city state

[@correctorer]

+Clear Lens Cap Have you ever heared about Sweeden, my child?

[@clearlenscap9707]

Игорь Шмыгун When they have a declaration of Friendship they get a tech boost right?

[@TikoPiko]

yo Filthy you need to do a Technology tree video! It's like one of the main aspects that you haven't covered. :)

[@emiljorgensen5340]

Exactly!!!!!!!

[@esinohio]

Love these commentaries you have done! Recently dove back into Civ V and have found these guides great fun to watch. Thanks!

[@FilthyRobot]

+E SinOhio Thanks!

[@unidorsalicosahedron7416]

Consulates raises the *resting point*. If influence falls below a *resting point* then the influence will increase until it reaches its *resting point*, which is 20 higher. Should be buffed though.

[@Fungi127]

It really is too bad you can only do 3 (at most) policies before you're forced into Rationalism. I think that allowing for more cultural tenets in the mid game would make the game more interesting, and less "you're never going to get that because it's too far in the tree" kinda thing. Would a buff to Ampitheatres and Opera Houses make it so you could get more? Which buff would be best? Just a flat upgrade to the amount of culture per turn, or maybe a reduction in hammers? Or maybe it's just the cost of the tenets themselves. If the costs didn't go up so exponentially, you could fill out more trees in the mid game, I guess. Just throwin' some ideas out there. Nice guide man.

[@Nikolapestanac]

Well,this is all based on HIS matches,for example in my games which are also quick,i and other people in my match manage to actually finish third or fourth trees.I think the reason is because we acutally build Museums and Broadcast tower(which increase culture output by 30%).

[@elijahguttman9289]

Just play Poland. :D

[@lgh1551]

The simple solution, which I think was provided in some mods (have never played with mods), is to change where in the rationalism policy tree you get the solid bonuses. For example, maybe adapting rationalism would give one of the weaker policies on the tree like the research agreement boost or great scientist generation boost, and the 10% bonus and +17% science be two of the last ones. This would also force people to close the tree earlier for the free tech if they want to enjoy the huge bonuses. So users enjoy these boosts later on in the game, when the problem with rationalism is that it has a snowball effect because 2 of its game-changing policies are the opener and a policy which you can adopt right after. Not pursuing the entire tech tree and still competing with other civs is testament to the snowball effect.

[@The_13th_Hussar]

celts + liberty = great prophet + great prophet = instant super religion

[@Drekromancer]

galaxy brain play right here

[@DrHavoc1]

Disagree about consulates. It allows you to reach ally status with just one 40 influence quest or just throwing money at the city state. Sometimes if said city state has a quest resource, you get allied status from multiple citystates at once, it can chain quite nicely.

[@DiscusvissenRocken]

only works vs the ai since the ai is retarded. vs human players it just doesn't work since especially good players aren't gonna let you snowball like that

[@haoying7937]

Even going for Liberty, I recommend everyone adopt Tradition for the fast border growth bonus, which is A LOT. It basically half the culture required to expand a tile.

[@FilthyRobot]

+Hao Ying I don't. If you do it early, it hurts your liberty finisher timing. If you do it late, it either hurts your rationalism timing or isn't very useful.

[@haoying7937]

+FilthyRobot True. it delays the timing to acquire collective rule. the value of adopting tradition early in liberty game is more flexibility in placing your cities. it's probably more valuable in single game because of the world fair, i just started multiple game so haven't got many chances to verify.

[@FilthyRobot]

Hao Ying Not just collective rule, but also the timing of your great scientist.

[@VeteranVandal]

+FilthyRobot Playing on quick multiplayer this doesn't work. Playing on Marathon single player, this can work depending on the situation - timing things in marathon is easier, for obvious reasons and catching up is not really such big problem... You just need a lot of patience to play this game mode. But on standard single player it hurts too. I tested it a number of times. It only works if you find one or two ruins with culture in them. In that situation there could be an advantage in taking the first policy of tradition, but them sticking to liberty. The problem is that, even still, I'm not sure this beats pure tradition. Using liberty out of multiplayer is very difficult with the timing on high difficulties - it is possible but so situational that most of the time you won't think about it. But on multiplayer at quick speed, I don't know. I think that, being quick speed the hardest game speed (from the technical point of view) the timing will always get screwed up (unless ruin luck happens, but as far as I've seen it is very difficult to get one culture ruin - when you get three or four you have been lucky, as far as I can say, and I've seen you not coming across any ruins once at least). Of course I'm not talking about the NQ mod tradition, which blows in comparison to the rest...

[@Mangs1337]

Great guide! As a Civilization 5 Let's Player myself, I found this extremely useful!

[@bobsagetz7513]

i feel like the barracks bonus from proffesional army should be the opener. Its like how piety has a 50% decrese in build time for shrines

[@francescognerre2408]

The Uffizi is pronounced: U (as in you minus the Y sound) - feet - zee

[@Likeitornot91]

oo-feet-Z

[@beargrills3508]

Oof-feet-zee.

[@fhy537]

Whenever i play with my friends, they all combine against me. I have to go patronage every single game to make city states friend of mine and build forbidden palace. Or else I will lose my trade routes in first world congress. They give me great people, give me happines and resources, they share science with me. I think thats a great policy three specially if youre under a condition like me.

[@BirchMinecraft]

Nah just focus science and go autocracy and kill your friends before they can screw you

[@james2042]

I still think culture is highly underrated in multiplayer, even in straight warmongering pvp. When someone goes to adopt an ideology that you don't have (free policies) and gets slapped with 15 unhappiness from dissonance. It completely counters any gains from happiness policies or even outweighs them. Not to mention more culture means more social policies (and border growth). Also if you have cultural influence over someone, you can go to war with them and get reduced penalties for taking cities, depending on the tier of influence, which is also highly underrated, and makes an autocracy culture civ a hidden weapon. And if they are unhappy due to desires for a new ideology, their units fight less effectively. Sure you don't dump all your points into rationalism, but their science won't be progressing as fast if they're perma unhappy (10% increase when positive, 20% decrease when negative)

[@TristanBanks]

When playing on terra type maps i tend to complete tradition, then either commerce or exploration to settle the new world, then start rationalism/order. This gives the benefits of a 3/4 city initial empire and then allows you to settle a large amount of cities in the new world.

[@arvisimeon5880]

I dont actually play civ5, but i find the rules in the game interesting, and I love your videos having your videos playing as ambient background sound helps me focus on doing work :S

[@craig]

Thanks for all of these tips filthy, I have recently joined the NQ group and you will definitely help me change my gameplay more towards multiplayer instead of anything else, keep 'em coming!

[@Acies9192]

craig oh wow didn't expect to find you her :)

[@FloydRinehart]

I really enjoy these guides... Thanks for posting these!

[@ckehung2450]

In singleplayer, honor and piety are definitely viable, check out Acken's small piety strategy, and consentient's honor commerce autocracy domination strategy.

[@skaybestrog]

+Ernest Hung peddroelm makes HCA work even with a terrible domination Civ like The Netherlands, on Deity. Pretty sure he more or less came up with it.

[@paul_chandler3082]

Can you direct me 2 these vids

[@Usumgallu]

I've sometimes opened my game with piety (in multiplayer). If there are no Celts around, taking the extra faith practically ensures you the first religion. Also, with Aztecs I've sometimes taken honor. Probably not viable in top-tier games but with casuals it may work.

[@braders790boop]

Before I saw these guides I usually opened both Tradition and Liberty first, for the +4 culture per turn. then get the free worker and settler, before finishing tradition. but now I know that it is detrimental late game, despite feeling like faster progress near the start.

[@paul_chandler3082]

If you play your religion right you can actually circumvent the later effects in the game. Also using the filler social policy you can finish Liberty as well which will decrease the detrimental effects. I general open tradition, get legalism and landed elite/monarchy(depending on how bad my gold is), then open Liberty and finish tradition. Then I usually either grab a free worker or settler.

[@michaelthebishop5290]

With consulates in patronage, if you have Papal Primacy as a religious belief (giving +15 resting points with city states following your religion) you can keep each city state at a 35 resting point so I think you could get some usage out of it.

[@masterstacker2833]

I play solo on Prince (Pangea Plus Map, 8 Civs, 16 City States, Abundant Resources, and standard everything else) and here are my social policies: First I finish Tradition. Then I open Honor so I can be informed about spawning barb camps. The order of the rest of the policies varies according to the situation. I open Patronage/Consulates. With Pledge to Protect I get a 25 City State Influence Level resting point which makes it relatively easy to become friends/allies with City states and rule the World Congress. I open Aesthetics to get the +25% GPP generation and Uffizi (with theming bonus). I open Commerce to get the gold and Big Ben (to eventually combine with Mercantilism). I open Exploration to get the +1 sight and movement for Naval Units, also trying for the Great Lighthouse. By this time I am ready to complete Rationalism. I pick 6 policies in my Ideology, favoring Order/Double Agents/Hero of the People/Young Pioneers/Worker Facilities/5-year Plan/Dictatorship of the Proletariat. With DofP it is very Important to maximize happiness so I beeline to Physics (Notre Dame), Civil Service (Chichen Itza), and Architecture (Taj Mahal). After that I fill in Wagon Trains/Mercenary Army (to get to)/Mercantilism and Fine Arts. How do I get so many policies? I make sure I win the International Games (minimum 1401 hammers). With Airports/Hotels/Broadcast Towers, getting the Eiffel Tower, maximizing theming bonuses, and by winning The International Games (minimum 2881 hammers) I am usually winning a Cultural Victory around turn 365 if I can avoid War.

[@wolfpax22]

Once nice thing about "Mercenary Army," is that even though landsknechts are basically pikemen and therefore fairly weak by the time you get them, they have some hidden strengths. First being that they can move immediately after purchase, which means you can make huge pop-up armies of landsknechts if you have a lot of gold, which can be handy in an emergency. Also they have no movement cost to pillage, which gets passed down as they upgrade (first to lancer).

[@DK-ep2ov]

I honestly wouldn't go past wagon trains for commerce. For my 3 ''fillers'' I usually go pat > com > wagon trains or com > pat > wagon trains depending on the game. Even with 4 cities wagon trains is fairly decent for one extra point. In a liberty/war game obviously it can get very strong just for one social policy.

[@TheodorBsson]

16:10:ish, i know they nerfed consulates, cause i think before that nerf you could get to 30 (the limit for friendship) with just that and a pledge to protect, or was it the pledge to protect they nerfed?

[@kumiplus]

TheodorBsson They nerfed protection from +10 influence to +5 in BNW.

[@TheodorBsson]

Oh. Ok, i know something got nerfed at least :p.

[@kumiplus]

One thing I'd like to point out - the Merchant Confederacy Patronage policy (+2 gold from trade routes with CS) actually gives +4 gold for sea trade routes, which is the same as the Treasure Fleets Exploration policy (+4 gold from sea trade routes). Both policies give +2 base gold for their respective trade routes, but the total gold yield is doubled when using cargo ships. Since I mostly ever want to send external trade routes for CS quests, this makes the Patronage policy better in my opinion. It at least has some synergy with a diplomatic strategy, although the policy comes too late to be a very good pickup. Treasure Fleets, on the other hand, is absolute garbage.

[@kumiplus]

You're right about embargo CS. I play single player and don't have to deal with that. The gold bonus is very inconsequential anyway, the reduced road maintenance alone from Wagon Trains (Commerce) tends to be better. Only reason I'd ever pick Merchant Confederacy or Treasure Fleets would be for the Patronage/Exploration finisher. Both are bad, but somewhat interesting.

[@kumiplus]

***** Well, the unique thing about hidden antiquity sites is that they have a chance of creating great works of writing instead of artifacts. Those writings can then alternatively be used for a one-time culture boost. It's all up to luck what you get though, and I can't see it being worthwile. If you just need artifacts for whatever reason, the regular sites should be enough. Hidden sites are a huge gamble with a small payoff, and you can't base your strategy around them. That's why I consider the Exploration finisher bad but interesting. It's been a while since I actually got it.

[@Nacho34th]

if ur playing poland is there any utility in going tradition finishing that out and then going into liberty rather than the others or is that stupid, ive never actually gotten poland in multiplayer nor do i play multiplayer often enough to know intuitively. Just curious on thoughts from other people

[@FilthyRobot]

+stt_taco Opening Liberty later in the game is an all around waste.

[@adiSal1]

+FilthyRobot You were talking about a combination between Liberty and Tradition, how might a strategy like that work, and what would be the policies to take and in what order, and if Poland is a viable civ option. I recently tried getting to Collective rule and then switching to Tradition to finish it. I started with a scout, monument and shrine build, into worker and i believe granary, before getting the free settler and hard building 2 more, at a discount. By turn 49 (on standard speed) i got my 4 cities with some tradition social policies. I managed, with the use of The Oracle, to get full Tradition and Liberty before Rationalism. I must say I had some happiness problems at start, since i got a insular start and discovered just one player, and i was unlucky in getting just 3 different luxuries. But actually got a good mid game snowball. What did I do wrong, and what other synergies I should consider as Poland?

[@FilthyRobot]

+Adrian Bancos Don't bother finishing Liberty if you want to do that. Open tradition first, then down to collective rule in Liberty then finish Tradition. If you have the policies to finish Liberty as well as Tradition before Ren, it sounds like your science is a bit on the slow side. The goal is to get Rationalism opened as soon as possible so that you're not adding to the social polices costs of it by adding points elsewhere. If you're on a Poland kick, check out Trad+Piety and a gold oriented strat. Poland actually has the social polices to grab the gold from temples and sometimes even finish piety. If you generate a good number of prophets and plant them, their yield can be crazy good. You can use a strat like this to reach a key military tech and buy a modern army out of nowhere.

[@BlazingAzureTheta]

From my limited online experience, the only mid game policies that even seem worth it is to either push back rationalism for reformation or to put 1 point in commerce and 1 point in patronage (in that order).

[@kadircanyldz3846]

I wonder if any of these got buffed or nerfed. I wish he was still doing a lot Civ 5 contents. He is one of a kind.

[@crispburnt]

Kadircan Yıldız They have not, but the NQmod Filthy used for some of his later multiplayer games does a good job balancing social policies and making them less rationalism-focused.

[@PATHNKOB]

3:48 - 6:15 and 33:03 -34:23 sum up this guide perfectly. This is an excellent companion guide to tradition vs liberty and choosing ideology. EDIT: ALL CONCERNS ADDRESSED WITHIN AN HOUR. On it's own this guide may be confusing to newer players. Here's some criticism, because i care: 1) "Social Policies" title is misleading. This guide is really focusing on just the 2-3 filler SPs. 2) Your tradition vs liberty and choosing ideology guides would provide a great context for this guide. Links to those would be useful. 3) A one sentence summary or a "TL;DR" :D in the video description would be very helpful, for other guides as well. In most cases you have a summary within a video, so just a time stamp could work too. 4) This video made a negative impression on first viewing. It's probably because you're going over 36 policies plus 6 finishers in detail and end up explaining how nearly all of them aren't worth it. Spending less time on worthless policies would help with it (Aesthetics tree didn't deserve 4:30 mins). If you're trying to make your guides more concise, you can safely skip reading the tooltips, since viewers can pause the video to read them if they need. On subsequent viewings I appreciated this guide much more. Your preparation and knowledge are amazing as always. Thanks a lot!

[@FilthyRobot]

PATHNKOB Thanks for the feedback, a lot of it is very useful and some of those suggestions are easily incorporated. I struggled with the title too, but ultimately decided that "Filler Policies" wouldn't be something that people would be interested in clicking on!

[@PATHNKOB]

FilthyRobot "midgame social policies" maybe?

[@PATHNKOB]

PATHNKOB I see what you mean by that... "Filler" has a negative connotation. But i think in this case it sets up the right expectations :D I really like the changes you've made! BTW, i graduated from NIU, so was pleasantly surprised you live close to there.

[@FilthyRobot]

PATHNKOB I have a M.A, from NIU, what years were you there?

[@wquarton]

It would be nice for all of the victory options to be balanced in such a way as to make them viable in multiplayer

[@DovahTank]

5 years later still helped me out with this videos. Now I can go toe to toe with my friends.

[@jianquanma]

ah, man, you have friends who play civ, no one i know plays it minus my high school math teacher which is now in europe

[@DovahTank]

@@jianquanma yea one of friends got us all into it at the beginning of this year, now on a break as they play another game:(

[@Fitizen0]

These explanations rule even after so many years. You said once that filling aesthetics before rationalism is quicker than spreading filler points around, how viable is filling aesthetics after tradition or liberty in the current NQmod? If casual players aren't expecting it, is tourism doable? If so, what major things do I have to get right mid/late game? Thanks Filthy.

[@checkbordspy4608]

I dropped in on my friends multiplayer game as Greece and the ai finished the patronage line and because of that city-states kept on giving me Venetian merchants and I ended up owning all the city-states in the game threw either being allies with them or annexing them; my friends then started paying me to vote for what they want in the world congress and at the end of the game I ended up being the richest player and at the end of a long war between every country except for me, i voted for standing army tax which fucked up all their countries even more ; sadly I didn't win the game but I was the second best country which I thought was pretty good considering I took over from the ai during the mid to late game

[@brianmerion]

"I don't know what that squealing is, but I wish it would shut up. The truffles... I guess..."

[@Acqua_.]

An excellent summary of the six filler policy trees. A great help as always!

[@therhinomaster8880]

Quite a short video, for your standards XD

[@tonywender9316]

The worst policy to get is mercenary army from commerce, I hate when I want to finish the tree and have to get this garbage, when I am in industrial era

[@mateuszzdyb3547]

hwat about synergy between rationalism and commerce? having these two opened you can get brilliant tile production from trading posts, or brazilian woodcaps (especially on a jungle tile with sacred path belief)

[@timburris234]

Seeing where Barbarian camps spawn is by far the best aspect of the Honor opener. If you are in an area where there are a lot of tiles you can't see, this can save your workers or caravans from being captured. Not saying this is reason enough on its own to take the policy, but it should be considered.

[@FilthyRobot]

+Tim Burris Barbs also won't spawn where you have sight. So if you just keep sight between your cities barb camps can't spawn.

[@dodgytapir8004]

How do you check what social policies other people have?

[@FilthyRobot]

Hamish Lucas f4

[@LoganMartinsChannel]

Hamish Lucas 34:40

[@dodgytapir8004]

Thanks a lot, the video was really helpful by the way

[@EXDE601E]

I've never seen City States gifting Great Prophets in my single player games. Not sure if that's possible...

[@Webemperor1]

George B. Moga Afaik they can if they are religious citystates. Also I might be wrong on this but depending on the type of cs they are they are more likely to give a great person similar to their type.

[@FilthyRobot]

Webemperor1 That's cool, I didn't know there were different changes based on the type!

[@EXDE601E]

Webemperor1 it could be. But I haven't seen militaristic city states gifting great people, only units, even after finishing patronage. I usually get generals and khans from religious city states - maybe they want to start holy wars! :)

[@Cherrybums-i5g]

It's a shame that Rationalism is the only viable late game option for consistent victories but I tried Patronage the other day and got a sneaky Diplomatic victory when playing with my housemates, one of which is a Science Deity and always wins through it. He was 2 turns away from XCOMing my capital xD

[@billcox8870]

How do you put one promotion into Valor to get the culture bonus when you make a Kill

[@lsuaksauke]

How does Liberty fit in being a filler policy? and would it be worth finishing if I made ita filler tree.

[@alextang4178]

lsuaksauke Liberty's bonuses are too early game oriented to be made filler

[@ArtaxForever]

What they should have done with policies was given additional bonuses to make culture as good as focusing on tech. Maybe military bonuses or growth bonuses per social policy to allow falling behind in tech to be more viable.

[@gefitrop3496]

If you're Poland Liberty is a nice filler tree, too

[@elgringo5731]

Why not Tradition and then filler in Liberty to get the free worker, and the production bonus?

[@chacem504]

filthy I used to always fill out patronage fully if possible, and the gifted great people actually does count against your counter, I was trying a futurism strategy and my writer count started at 200 because of a gifted one

[@milat9287]

What if you combine Honour's Military Caste with Tradition's Oligarchy, effectively removing the penalty from having a garrison, and instead promotes having one in case of an attack of some kind, be it barbarians, other civs, or unhappiness rebels

[@zioming]

About patronage finisher. You're saying that you only want great scientists and engineer, but that's because of the opportunity cost. If they are free then you don't have to worry about your scientist costs increasing. Two writers giye you a free social policy, an artist is a free golden age, a merchant is a great strategic resource improvement. However it's still 6 policies deep so you need 6 writers to just catch up. This could work if you weren't going for religion and you only needed first 3 rationalism policies

[@AGiantPie]

+Ziom Krzysztof The gifts aren't free is the issue. Getting a "gift" in the form of a merchant sets back your scientists and engineers.

[@mennodekeijzer]

At the concept of Sweden, if you finished Patronage, couldn't you gift the bad great people to city-states? Would that be an viable strategy?

[@tobyvd]

So I was wondering, what if you open honor to rush the other tree (tradition of liberty) with the barbarian culture? I understand that the costs of the other policies increases and that you cannot compensate that with the culture of the barbarians. But if by opening honor you would be able to finish the tradition of liberty tree sooner than your opponents, would that give a large enough boost to compensate for the more expensive policies, if thats even possible?

[@FilthyRobot]

I haven't done the math in awhile, but you need to figure out the cost of policies 2-6 compared to policies 1-5 and see how many barbarians that's going to be. I'm nearly certain it's slower to open honor with any reasonable amount of barbs.

[@Nikolapestanac]

In my multiplayer matches everybody manages to get 5 policies before rationalism and after max liberty or tradition.

[@JonesCrimson]

For when you're fielding a large military it might be worth it to invest that first great person into a Merchant and a Custom's House, because you'll be losing science if you're in a gold deficit anyways. That said, that applies more to Standard speed instead of Quick.

[@manwithalamp]

Hey Filthy, woudn't getting the unique pikemen good, because if you're poland, you can upgrade them to the winged hussars and later helicopters and have a ton of bonuses? And since you're Poland anyways, you would have more policies to get. Just a thought.

[@ominous7271]

My rule of thumb: If I have several coastal cities then I go for exploration for my filler. If I don't have coastal cities then I go for piety, as reformation is really fucking good.

[@vexxvillow763]

Once again a great guide. Thank you verry much. That will help me quite a lot. One question about the no quitters group. How do you get in? The admins dont tend to accept your friendsrequest, and as far as i see, theres no other way to let them know you want in.

[@scottkrafft6830]

Cultural Diplomacy in Patronage can be an absolutely GAME-CHANGINGLY high amount of happiness if you have a lot of City State allies. If you have 5 allies, each with a unique luxury, 5 x 4 (happiness per lux) = 20, 50% of which is 10. Ten extra happiness with just 5 allies. It's like a Notre Dame. Or, if you have 10 allies, that's 20 extra happiness.

[@FilthyRobot]

Your enemies can steal your happiness at the worst times when you rely on city-states for happiness. Nothing quite as fun as having 5 CS allies giving 20 extra happiness and suddenly having someone buy all 5 then war you on the same turn, meaning you're fighting at between -10 and -20 happiness and a 20%-40% combat malus.

[@ManicMercurianAstrology]

What if you have both the Oligarchy policy in Tradition as well as Military Caste in Honor .... Thereby having free units in each city. Would that make it worth that policy then or nah?

[@baxterpaschal3392]

i have thought about that before, play wide

[@ghostlightx9005]

Anyone know a streamer who goes into the careful thought and extreme depth Filthy does but for Immortal / Diety single player games?

[@ashemrus]

Gary Bradley Probably PrimEvalCiv, Marbozir or DehiarPlay will fit your request. They probably the only guys playing singleplayer deity on youtube

[@Dragoncro0wn]

As a bieng a non native english speaker can you explain the policy in LIberty "Representation" I have no idea what the text means(except the "Empire enters Golden age" obviously)

[@therhinomaster8880]

***** It's in the civiliopedia. I'll link to the online one: www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/POLICY_REPRESENTATION.aspx In short, it means that there are goveners (smaller rulers) that work for the king. For instance, it can be the leader of a state of the US. He/she has to follow all orders made by the president, but makes dicisions on their own for their state. (Also, representing literally means "showing for" or "stand in for". The govenor stands in for the president, so they can divide the tasks)

[@Dragoncro0wn]

I did not mean that part I meant the part "Each city you found will increase the culture Culture cost of policies by 33% less than normal" and in particular the "increase by 33% less than normal" I cannot understand this. Increase by 33% less ?

[@PATHNKOB]

*****Each city you found increases the cost of the next social policy by 10%. Let's say with just your capital, your social policy costs 100. With 3 additional cities that social policy would cost 130. if you have representation, the 3 cities would each increase the cost by 7% instead of 10%, so it would reduce the social policy cost from 130 to 120. You should watch the filthyrobot's liberty guide to get a much better idea. Nice trolling RhinoMaster :D

[@Nikolapestanac]

In programming if you take 50% of any number,if its decimal the decimals will simply dissapear.That is why 3/2+3=4

[@jokebyLASSE]

Tell me something: Is it bad to go open both tradition and liberty? Because I've been doing a culture strat where I open tradition first to get the 3+ bonus, giving me +7 with monument, meaning I can open liberty early instead of the no cost for garrisoned units. I rush a settler to get my second city up fast, and get a +2 bonus from liberty instead of 1. Then I finish tradition.

[@2sSHenky]

+Evan Urahara (Freshairkaboom) opening both tradition and liberty or viceversa, hurts you in the long run. in SP still you could manage to beat all the AI, but in MP this is a weak strategy. By opening and filling both trees you hurt the next stages, where you could open more in rationalism/ commerce and idologies.

[@jokebyLASSE]

2sSHenky You misunderstand, when I fill liberty I never fill tradition, I just open it. One social policy to get the +3 culture boost in my capital.

[@APerson-co7er]

Capn Evan the +3 culture is a net negative for culture, as it increases the cost for future policies

[@raditzace]

am... i playing the game majorly wrong? i can usually almost fill out piety and traditions/liberty before even opening up aethestics and patranoge....

[@APerson-co7er]

raditzace yes

[@alecmueller3299]

What do you think of going Tradition open then Honor open right after? I get around 200 to 250 culture by the time most camps are gone, which in hindsight is about 2 to 3 policies for 20 culture.

[@mastermax7777]

? Where is the rationalism and ideology policy guide?

[@sleepinggiant4145]

These Video's strongly imply that the Game is very unbalanced Competitively Is that just on Quick speed or does this all still apply to Standard and longer Games?

[@FilthyRobot]

All of them

[@yoshitsunej1733]

Hey filthyrobot, it's probably been a while since making a civ 5 video, but I'm new to the game and getting into it because of my fiance and her family. Any who, I was seeing stuff about lekmod and nq and wanted to ask if these guide videos were with those mods, I know you said in the videos it's with the nq rules but I just wanted to clarify if it was using nq or lekmod mods, and if those two mods are the same or different mods

[@jimmyblank4237]

Could you test out if Heathen Conversion reformation belief convert rebels in to your empire cause rebels are just barbarians or is that not a thing? For patronage Khans are good if your going to war as they are better then normal generals, unless your the Mongolia. Also musamez?

[@postmodernityarmageddon]

Does playing on normal speed change the value of policies?

[@An_Ian]

The honor opener stacks with the Aztec UA it can be quite usefull but only if your aztec is starting with honor instead of tradition/liberty viable

[@mastermax7777]

You didnt show how to see other civ policies?

[@SGProductions87]

When can we see you on he NQ group? What are your login times?

[@quentintoffano-floury9206]

could you rush mercrenary army and warrior code ( with the intent of finishing liberty) with china ?

[@APerson-co7er]

Quentin toffano-floury no

[@nathanielstove8662]

This video is very good All of this advice is great for games on immortal or deity

[@WarlordKentax]

Landsknecht are a good alternative to doing cash donations to city states if you get Arsenal of Democracy from Freedom.

[@kubu9394]

You actually missed 1 thing about Patronage finisher, which I found pretty troubling even in a singleplayer game. Let's say you filled out Patronage, coz you were Poland or you were Greece with 5 cultural cs allies etc., you have 7-8 allies and let's say you got a scientist or an engineer from a city state, but the cs is behind other player. What are you gonna do with it?

[@FilthyRobot]

kuba2898 I don't think it appears at the actual CS, I'm fairly certain it appears in your lands, like gifted military units from military CS.

[@kubu9394]

FilthyRobot I'm pretty sure it's in cs lands, but I was playing around with it a while back, so I might be wrong.

[@x1g5dj7dh4]

kuba2898 The Great units appear in near your capital, but the message shown is the same as 'A great person is born!' ...at least that's what I think

[@VeteranVandal]

+FilthyRobot Gifted units before BNW or G&K appeared in the CS. And that was annoying and plainly bad. You had to walk the units all the way to your city...

[@Tenshi_727]

I almost never use rationalism in anything below level 5 and I'm never behind, I'm usually first or second, it all depends on what you can do before hand

[@dragonwingz1]

This is in an online variant called "No Quitters" (NQ), which is a balanced online multiplayer game setting. His suggestions are mostly relevant to that, where humans will most certainly overwhelm you if your science is behind.

[@mrkraffbs9583]

"balanced"

[@LeeSong325]

thats because anything below immortal is easy (level 7)

[@lol70721]

You should really play with the NQ mod. It buffs up the policies. Making honor and piety actually playable instead of totally useless. A lot of people use the mod online.

[@paul_chandler3082]

He uses that mod a lot

[@paullemay6596]

Just discovered your channel and I really like your content Filthy. Are there any other entertaining multiplayer Civ 5 streamers out there?

[@Acqua_.]

There's lots, really. A lot of the guys Filthy plays with regularly also stream. You could look into Yoruus or Anzleon (Arvius) for example.

[@ashemrus]

Paul LeMay Yoruus for best explanation of ingame mechanics and strategies (also great player, top 10 imo). Arvius is top1 in NQ, probably best player in the world. There is also some more less famous players/streamers in civ5, both multi (mostly in NQ) or singleplayer

[@taotaozhang4568]

18:41 "What you want are scientists and engineers" So just like real life 😆😆

[@americannationalist5710]

Wouldn't Oligarchy and Military caste be good together? Oligarchy makes military garrisoned units free, so it's basically reserve units that give you happiness.

[@FilthyRobot]

American Nationalist In BNW it's basically never a good idea to go many policies in honor since you need to finish your primary tree and start filling out rationalism as soon as you possibly can.

[@ghostlightx9005]

You didn't actually discuss using Liberty or Tradition as the filler after you complete the other, which for me happens as often as not - especially Liberty fillers after Tradition is filled. You can often snag the Pyramids really cheap and a free Settler for your 4th (sometimes 3rd or 5th) city. Makes the guide feel rather incomplete. Also worth mentioning that in high difficulty single player games, Scholasticism in Patronage is about the best single Policy in the game. You will need a lot of CS allies to win at high difficulty (since the AI is garbage at fighting you for CS allies, you must attack it hard on this weak front); and this can mean that single policy point is sometimes worth a staggering +125 to +150 Science, when you only have about +600 Science. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

[@Boxsteam]

It seems domination is the only real way to win multiplayer and wish that other victory types can be more easily accessible.

[@snesmaniac228]

+Justin Norman Ban Domination victories. I have done it in the past as well. Fun but time consuming.

[@EZNOOB6969]

SnesManiac how the hell does that even work.Are you forbidden from building military units?If I take every single city in the game I still win a culture victory,also world domination because theres no one else to vote.All it does is delay science victory.But if your the only player left its only a matter of time since no one can stop you

[@johannpohland2826]

Tldr; patronage or commerce

[@ivanvoloder8114]

I personaly think if you play with Germany which is my favorite nation in the game because I like to go for domination. Honor greatly benefits them because you get combat bonus vs barbarians and the fact you can recruit a large army by conquring their camps. Plus 25% disscount on maitanece and if you get Autocracy with Nationalism that's another 50% which makes 75% lower maitanence of all your land units which basicly turns your nation into a military superpower.

[@QuarterbackTCG]

Yall still play?

[@pdraggy]

I mean... I feel this (early policy opinion) almost COMPLETELY depends on game style. I almost ALWAYS start with Piety why? cuz you can buy settlers and workers, you CAN'T buy great prophets! Plus on larger maps the amount of religions is finite. On the same note a free great general (Honor) is something you can't buy. OFC I play 99% single player in multi religion is virtually worthless.

[@FilthyRobot]

I wish it did, but it doesn't At least not in the un-modded game. Tradition and Liberty (and in SP, nearly always tradition) starts are much, much stronger.

[@pdraggy]

@@FilthyRobot I'll try it I was just arguing :) I just don't see how but I'll have to try it I guess.

[@AnarKloot]

17:53 I wasn't complaining when I got two great merchants of Venice in a row from city states

[@XJOEMANN13]

I usually fill tradition then do Commerce - Wagon Trains and by the time I get my next policy I move onto rationalism

[@pride893]

Hey, from 2018, thank you so much!

[@FilthyRobot]

Is it nice in the future?

[@pride893]

FilthyRobot lmao guess I should have worded it better! The future is bright!

[@jianquanma]

@@FilthyRobot well, no, haha