Clap in time, you plonkers!

In which I make my plea for people either to clap in time properly, or instead, observing that they are imperfect in this skill, to refrain from clapping entirely. I well remember my first trip to the Herrang dance camp in Sweden, when for the first time in my life I found myself in a large crowd all of whom without instruction clapped the off-beat and clapped in time, without speeding up. A rare treat for me.
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk

[@herwin.pradana]

So that's why people glared at me when I clapped during that funeral. I did it in-between.

[@johnnytastetest]

I "lol'd" when you made that funeral march tune sound like a pop song.

[@smitty3624]

+johnnytastetest A few fellows I know put on a performance for a very elderly man of especially good humor in which they blended the funeral march and happy birthday when he turned 90. My ears could hardly process it, but it was hilarious and the old man thought so as well.

[@oz_jones]

Incidentally, there is a scene in Live and Let Die (a Bond film) where a funeral march -type song turns into almost a swing number in a beat or so. It's quite fun.

[@Milamberinx]

He did cheat a bit to make it happy as well, not only changing his clap beat, but also the rhythm and the key.

[@thecaptain6148]

I honestly think that's the first time I've heard someone sing the funeral march upbeat.

[@fluets5658]

We should use it more.

[@fluets5658]

+Андрей Казакевич Nah, she says it's the best thing she got from you... :/

[@taeneribladestorm4731]

+The Captain They did after the Purple Wedding.

[@jaryH3]

People should clap off beat on my funeral, or I will kill them!

[@smorrow]

The Imperial March is ripped off of the funeral dirge and I've that played as a rock number before, so I knew already what I was going to be hearing.

[@Leeshnack]

Being a drummer, I totally agree with you on this matter. Some people might get confused by the whole "up beat vs down beat" issue, but the way I explain this to them is “Bass drum vs Snare drum”. So if you are going to clap along with something, please please PLEASE follow the snare drum.

[@ownageDan]

+Alexander Lee now clap to a tune by Venetian Snares >:]

[@any1alive]

+Alexander Lee that is a much nicer way to say it,, or go by 1 and 2's or clap on the 2-4 or the 1-3

[@titaniumslug]

Year late comment: Usually in pop, rock and hip hop etc the snare comes on every other down beat, not the up beat. Its more common to hear a hi-hat on the up beat.

[@vexbanearamori7224]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hn-7dp-jerp8gNE got ya just the guy.

[@slothietunion1742]

Following the snare for clapping? *laughs in blast beat* I know i am a little bit late

[@Marialla.]

This is not only true, I know a huge number of plonkers who deliberately try to speed up any beat you give them. They simply cannot accept that a song is playing at a given beat. They have to feel like "they got there first", and so they clap early ON PURPOSE, no matter how fast the song ends up going.

[@Djzommer1]

ooor they just dont know how to clap...

[@theangrybirdgodofthebadlan2583]

"It's a good job I didn't have a machine gun frankly" oh god

[@5Xum]

There's another problem with clapping. Even in a small hall, let's say the band is 50 meters away from the furthest listeners. Well, 50 meters is a distance that takes the sound 0.1666 seconds to travel, and that's something people easily hear. So, if you are in frond of the band, you clap in time, and then 0.1666 seconds later, the people in the back ALSO clap in time. Then, another 0.1666 seconds later, which is 0.33 seconds AFTER the correct time to clap, you hear the clap from the people in the back row. It's horrible, and it only gets worse with larger distances...

[@AlexanderHL1919]

+5Xum I'm pretty sure this problem is not real since they use speakers @ AROUND the hall not only in the front so technically, most people get to hear the sounds @ the same time....

[@andreatomassini202]

+AlexanderHL the subject is more complex, as in big concerts speakers are set to play sound with a certain delay that increases as you go farther from the stage.

[@AlexanderHL1919]

+Andrea Tomassini Didn't know that. Why would they do that? Fascinating stuff ^^ Do tell more

[@andreatomassini202]

AlexanderHL they do that because, if you are far from the stage, and all the speakers play simultaneously, you would hear first the speakers closest to you and then the other ones playing with a delay that increases with distance(due to the time that sound takes to reach you from those far speakers), resulting in a very unpleasing listening experience, so delaying progressively the signal as far as you go may compensate for that. Obviously it's not a perfect science since many variables are involved....cheers

[@AlexanderHL1919]

+Andrea Tomassini Makes sense. Thanks :)

[@SPECK4ever]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

[@WinkieTime]

the onbeat is usually 1, 2, 3 and 4. While the off beat is in between those. That is counted like 1 AND 2 AND 3 AND 4 AND so the off beat is the AND of the beat. But it does depend on timing as well. In cut time its so fast that the AND of the beat is played 2 and 4. In 4/8 (which isn't a thing but could be) it would be the same.

[@aTF2player]

WinkieTime and then you get fun things... like subdividing into 4ths so you have 1 e-and-a 2 e-and-a etc.

[@WinkieTime]

aTF2player even better is 32 notes. 1-e-and-e-and-a is how i learned them.

[@illiteratethug3305]

I clap on a 3/16 but I'm just a dangerous loose cannon

[@travisbeck8184]

Classical music is accented on 1 and 3 lol

[@TheMarci201]

This video deserves a lot more attention.

[@TheDaker123]

Don't forget, in a huge crowd or audience the clap sound from those farthest away may have a short delay in reaching those at the front, making it seem as though everybody is out of time. That doesn't explain those that clap too early though.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

have you any idea what the speed of sound is

[@dingdongdaddymac]

Kris Douglass he does, in a large stadium or festival the distance is enough to add a delay. sound engineers have to add a latency to speakers spread out very far to stop this and make everything sound nice and clear and not be a big jumble of sound sources. small venues have no excuse though. it seems like the most enthusiastic clappers are usually the worst at being on time same with the people who are most enthusiastic to sing along being terrible at it. (i play 100+ gigs a year and am tormented by out of time/tune crowds)

[@TheSecondVersion]

Kris Douglass Not that fast, really. We hear echoes in large spaces because the distance is big enough to notice the delay in sound as it travels.

[@mrmoth26]

Oh the Funeral march, it's my favourite song!

[@Jsyrinsart]

Lloyd singing Hound Dog was perfect.

[@newperve]

You really amaze me. You can say something interesting on everything from Katanas to clapping.

[@danielthompson6207]

Have you watched his video about the way he alters his shirt collars? Seriously even that is interesting, it's ludicrous how ensnaring Lindybeige and his videos are

[@thomassayles3699]

Daniel Thompson LOL so true its unbelievable

[@cerberez]

Wow that does make a huge difference! Even videos as old as this makes sense!

[@Alvarin_IL]

In the wake of watching this video previous time I've spent nearly two hours searching for up-beat jazzy funereal march, but there seems to be none. So not fair...

[@lukehess7765]

DwarfInBlues Look up New Orleans Jazz Funeral. Should help

[@RHCP1031]

"That's positively funereal I think you'll find!" just made me laugh for some reason

[@shadow-r3852]

Lloyd puttin the FUN in FUNeral since 2010

[@sinantuten8998]

dear john, the reason for that crunch sound in huge concerts is the recorders position... the sound moves fast but not that fast... 60 meters would cause about 0.2 seconds difference in your recorders reception time for two claps that are in perfect sync. Well that doesn't mean that you are wrong about some people suck at clapping though

[@lindybeige]

Result! Many thanks for your report.

[@PeeTeJBC]

Well, i most certainly want an upbeat funeral march on my funeral.

[@Tina06019]

I want people to clap weird (upbeat) at my funeral so that folks start dancing!

[@PointyGorman]

Literally anything can be ranted about, good job Lindy!

[@lindybeige]

@idlenessss This has been discussed below. If you were in time to the music, and everyone else was too, then the sound should generally reach you at the same time. The people at the front clap in time with the music as it leaves the stage, and the people at the back should hear this clap and the music at the same time, and clap with it.

[@Zombie-lx3sh]

That would only be the case if sound only traveled from front to back. The people in the front (and the people on stage) will hear the claps from the people in the back coming in very late.

[@NovelNovelist]

I can't follow, or even hear, beats/rhythms to save my life. I do follow the 'I just won't clap' approach. Occasionally someone will ask, "Why are you clapping?" and I'll truthfully respond, "Because if I do I'll mess everyone up."

[@stevegandalf4739]

Wicked sense of humour ! Let's all clap for the Funeral March !!!

[@crazymarf]

As you've explained in your video about the speed of sound; sound is kind of slow. This means that it's impossible for an audience to make a nice, crisp clap sound in time with the music. The music arrives later at the back of the audience, so the people there will clap. And then even later, that clap will arrive back at the stage. Quite out of time with the people at the front.

[@chrisofnottingham]

In fact if you watch big crowds clapping as places like Glastonbury you can see the claps ripple away from the stage at the speed of sound.

[@qhutt4865]

That is incredibly interesting.

[@knurd75]

This.

[@xkinsey3831]

No, I'm pretty sure 760 Mph is fast enough to reach pretty much everybody in less than a second.

[@chrisofnottingham]

SABER GAMER Yes, but a second is quite a long time in terms of musical beat. In fact for a song at 120bpm, which is pretty common, it is two whole beats.

[@doctaylor6492]

It can be done. It is traditional for the audience to clap in rhythm along with parts of the Radetzky March at the Vienna Philharmonic's annual New Year's Eve concert. I've often been impressed with how well the audience does its part.

[@Steambull1]

This is something's that baffled me for at least 17 years. At first I noticed it on TV, when most of the audience watching a live studio musical performance were clapping wrong and absolutely at random. It wasn't audible, but I could tell by looking at their hands.

[@jessicascoullar3737]

My mum can’t keep time to save her life. She is tone deaf and it extends to rhythm. I remember her dancing at my sister’s 16th birthday and she was bopping up and down out of time with the music. We tried to do it ourselves but it was impossible, we automatically fell into time with the beat about bop 3.

[@giffy93]

KZbin is clapping off time by ten years suggesting me this pearl from 2010

[@thebrasshole6204]

Being a classical musician I hate it when the audience claps cos they can never keep in time and it's somewhat distracting

[@JonatasMonte]

Focus on the conductor then. But yes depending on the crowd it is weird.

[@Kalmaro4152]

Being a Bass Player for Jazz, I hate it when people clap.

[@anomalyp8584]

as a drummer classical scores are really confusing as most interpretations aren't metronomic :p also the audience for some weird reason always clap on 1 and 3...instead of 2 and 4!

[@sillybilly414]

That is so true its such a nuisance especially because they don't pay attention and are not familiar with the piece itself

[@mungofish81]

Oh the humanity! the often paying audience isn't clapping correctly! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO get over yourselves!

[@mynameisvisutinnadda]

up-beat funeral song sounds like imperial march

[@Eiterra]

You have enlightened me on a subject I didn't even know was a subject.

[@usmarinestanker4074]

Never realized how great a singer you are. The academic side of you hides this too much. Bring out your hep cat daddio!

[@verisimuli]

Oh boy, that's a public shooting joke right there, isn't it?

[@XiodeMusic]

+swf In reference to a group of school kids too. 10/10

[@00TommyTaylor00]

Dat funeral march!!!! =D

[@Paul_The_Spaceman]

Is it just me or can this man make anything interesting, i watched him make gelatinous cubes, lol.

[@Jacob-pp3kb]

I've been playing Jazz for eight years now and i'm glad im not the only one who understands this.

[@johnbunyan5834]

Well, a I’m quite surprised. I thought that Lloyd was mainly into war games; but here he is actually having heard of Sing Sing Sing. Now I used to listen to a 78 record of this , around 1957. I good tip on understanding the off-beat is playing or listening to folk-dance jigs: um-cha um-cha um-cha, and it you can play one and skip to the music. I used to play a guitar in a folk-dance group and only played chords on the off-beats.

[@taitungknight]

Wow, I never thought of that. It sounds so much better on the upbeat, thanks for enlightening me. It's a lost cause though, sorry to say. When I was a child, (as with many others) my parents made me play a musical instrument. I had to keep the beat, keep the time. Tap the foot to the beat. It's natural, it's almost instinctive, you feel the music, you keep in time with the music. So clapping to the offbeat seems unnatural, and also would take a lot of conscious effort to retrain old habits.

[@bertilpersson5970]

Right. Beat off, to avoid the clap. ... I may have misunderstood.

[@alligatorboy2000]

Bertil Persson I laughed way too hard at this... xD

[@phillipallen3468]

i'm laughing so hard at this, i can barely type !

[@cb21235]

I laughed

[@LearnSwingGuitar]

I might also add that I saw Chick Corea and Bobby McFerrin in Berlin and the Germans enthusiastically accompanied them with some excellent Teutonic 1 and 3 clapping. Bobby and Chick dissolved into giggles and were unable to continue. Quite wonderful.

[@Ramiroocampo]

0:15 the big rock concert will have speakers all around which distribute the music just in time. The clapping of the people who stand far away from you will always have a bit of a latency, even if they are in time, because sound travels rather slow...

[@7stringprogmetalguy616]

I like to clap in polymeters just to be a smartass.

[@mimikal7548]

A fellow man of culture I see.

[@MattysModernLife]

Hahahahaha! Pop funeral march is awesome.

[@Brufeek]

I must say, this time I had no idea what you were talking about. But I still enjoyed watching it.

[@Bjarku]

I miss these

[@Buford-kz7ky]

"They're lucky I didn't have a machine gun" Geez, Lloyd!

[@toomdog]

As a drummer, this is relevant to my interests.

[@zenzenzen3590]

Very insightful. Thank you.

[@lorenbucko7815]

Wonderful demonstration

[@bruceevans56]

Remarks I have heard: "Oh, it doesn't matter." "You aren't clapping with everybody else." "Oh, so you're a musical expert?" As a matter of fact, I am.

[@smithjohn383]

I applaud this rant.

[@steveholmes11]

It's got a back-beat you can't lose it - through apparently enough people can lose it to ruin a performance. I salute you sir - a true Renaissance man.

[@gibdopaminepls]

Kick drum : onbeat Snare drum : offbeat Just clap on the snare drum, you plonkers

[@FearlessLeader2001]

I want the upbeat funeral march at mine XD

[@petermitchell2729]

Crying all the time CRYING

[@MadNumForce]

I think people clapping hugely off in concert may have something to do with ethanol... By the way, I love your upbeat interpretation of the funeral march.

[@Firehazard1988]

Buy me some tickets to a Straight Edge Gig (plus minor expenses) and i will happily test out your theory for you.

[@davekent6023]

Firehazard1988 I doubt they even clap at a "straight edge gig"

[@gorillasapien]

as usual, superb observation and a treat, thank you.

[@addressedtokill]

Knowing nothing of musical theory, I could never figure out why I clapped in between when most people clapped, and why it sounded so right to me- even doubling or tripling the clap, until a mate said nonchalantly, 'oh, you clap on the off-beat'.- wait, there's an off-beat?

[@crap641]

I almost didn't watch this video (I usually skip your girly dancing vids so I can get back to learning about manly axes) but I'm really glad I stuck it out. You managed to get me to genuinely understand something I had always just kind of nodded my assent to before.

[@Aamedin100]

Celtic Women played in Montgomery, Alabama. One of the singers--on stage--shook her head in exasperation at how bad the audience was at clapping.

[@giantkiller56]

God (clap) bless (clap) you (clap), sir (clap).

[@biscuitsalive]

At a large concert or live performance. The area is huge. So by the time the sound reaches the stage (microphone) from the very back then it's offset due to the speed of sound. So we get a great elongated "crunch" sound. But that doesn't explain the early claps of course. They are probably drunk.

[@mikehumm]

There is a great video by Harry Connick Jr which shows the audience doggedly clapping on the on-beat. Connick throws in a 5/4 bar thus putting the audience on the off beat. The drummer roars with delight!

[@TheRealFlenuan]

It's "You ain't nothing but a hound dog, *crying* all the time." :p

[@dealzjawalha2448]

Being a jazz musician I've long since learned to stop listening to the audience if I want to keep any semblance of swing what-so-ever.

[@bbg5000]

The problem you describe in the beginning, about the large concert clapping not being in time. That's because sound travels *slow*, so you are hearing the claps coming in waves, even if everyone claps at the exact same time.

[@sweavo]

that only works for a listener at the back of the auditorium. Someone at the front gets the clap as it passes from the stage backwards... but they still hear all the people behind them clap, right to the person at the back, who not only claps last, but the sound of the clap takes the longest to get to the front again where the listener is. So the size of the auditorium does affect the sound for everyone except the back row.

[@bootsontheground4913]

His personality changes comepletely when he is dancing and singig

[@MisterNiles]

Barkin' and Cryin'

[@minetogiveaway]

Rock music has clearly steered me down a dark path. I can't stick to clapping the upbeat to save my life. I am irritated by this. Another spot-on video. Here's to many more.

[@im2cool777]

I always assumed that it was the size of the concert hall causing the crackle, obviously some claps closer to me would seem on time, whilst the later ones were from people far from me. even small halls are more then large enough to cause a small distortion.

[@Ellanion]

Mandatory drumming lessons in school paid off. Woo! Like, you don't get a grade if you can't do it. That's the stuff.

[@mazingdaddid]

this hits very close to home

[@asg32000]

I couldn't NOT watch the vid when I saw that title

[@taowroland8697]

I mean, in a large concert hall, claps will sound off beat because of the speed of sound.

[@desktorp]

Put the fun back in *f* *u* *n* e r a l

[@noe9250]

there's a great sister rosetta tharpe live version of 'this train', where she shushes the audience when they start clapping

[@SWEm4rt1n]

I had no idea of this, thanks for educating me!

[@louisacapell]

CRYING all the time. lol

[@RectalRage]

@lindybeige That works for people hearing from the back. People up front will hear the claps from the back only after sound has travelled all they way there *and* back. And there's also people from the sides. But you're still right, these considerations are minor compared to humain incompetence in general.

[@FMHammyJ]

Is there nothing this man can't do?....He's got a pretty good singing voice too.

[@lindybeige]

Yes, it is complicated, because sound travels both from the stage to the clappers at the back, and vice versa, and in some concerts, like you say, they have the music coming from speakers far from the stage. I agree also in part with the alcohol theory (above), but the chief reason is that people are rubbish at clapping.

[@LFOVCF]

You have a touch of Hugh Laurie in Blackadder about you! lol. I think the most likely reason for on beat clappers, is that most dance music now is 'four on the floor' boom boom boom boom, and they dance to the on beat, so they also clap to that as well, whereas us older 'uns, have been brought up with Reggae, Ska etc which teaches us about off beats. In the UK in 79/80 there was a shift from Ska to 'New Romantic', in effect, from off beat to on beat, so us 40 somethings can do both, (mostly lol)

[@ioda006]

very good examples and hilarious as always, lloyd.

[@MatthewsPersonal]

in the concert example, the huge crunch can be at least somewhat attributed to the slow speed of sound

[@SnickersTS]

I have many times been in audiences where there are TWO beats going in the audience, one on and one off, and it takes a while for people to realise which is right.

[@MrDannyDetail]

I hedge my bets and clap at double speed....

[@TheRogueDM]

Yeah I'm a musician and this kind of infuriates me. I tend to be the one at rock concerts who starts off the clapping if the band members haven't started it first, but another idea if you don't know where the beat is is to look at the band member who is clapping. xD

[@zivkovicable]

As a musician who tours around Europe playing Jazz & Blues, I have to say that Germans are easily the worst offenders when it comes to wrong beat clapping - On the one & four, or even worse, on every bloody beat. We usually give them a clapping masterclass at some point during the gig. It does break it up, a little, but it's better than listening to a bunch of demented seals slapping away all night. It's not bloody OomPah music you unfunky wankers!

[@raisnaix]

you have a beautiful singing voice!

[@AntsanParcher]

The machine gun probably wouldn't have stayed on the offbeat either.

[@ThibautVDP]

imagine a field of 100 meters by 100 meters. the field is filled with audience. clap at same time, and the people at the back will have their claps hear about 0.3 seconds later the the front ones. speed of sound is 340 meters per second.

[@MostorAstrakan]

My least favourite audience was in some game show years and years ago, where the Spinning of the Wheel of Numbers was accompanied by Dave Brubeck's "Unsquare Dance". Oh deary deary me... Mind you, if you are an expert at getting the clap right, I dare you to keep clapping correctly at the very tricky double "Shave and a haircut" at the very end.

[@h0lx]

what about the speed of sound in concerts, that would make thing sound as a weird mass of claps in a crowd?

[@rancorusia]

340.29 m/s, has to be large area or a lot of distortion imo

[@jikkedobbelaar8277]

you can sometimes see it in the dancing of the crowd on big concerts. also dont forget that the sound of the beat has to go to the rear of the crowd, then someone has to clap and that sound needs to trave backl to you. (immagine someone standing 50m behind you will clap (2*50)/340 = 0.3 seconds later than you on the same beat) so the real distance the sound would have to travel could be doubled depending on your position in the crowd. so if you hate bad clapping, stand in the middle of the crowd.

[@cruz1ale]

Yes, well a lot of concerts are in large areas. 120 bpm is a pretty common tempo and that's TWO beats every second. So you only have to be 170 meters away to be off by 1 beat compared to the guys in the front row, to which your clapping will actually sound like it's two beats off.

[@SuperStev007]

it only takes a disruption of about .1 seconds for a normal person to notice so if the area for the crowd is more than 100m2 then the difference will e noticeable (if only slightly)

[@hauribest]

The sound will travel from the stage to the audience, and then from the audience back to the crowd. So from the stage it sounds like the crowd is twice as unmusical as they really are.

[@C64SX]

Talking to you is like clapping with one hand

[@Roxor128]

I guess you could say the off-beat clapping funeral march would put the "fun" in "funeral". I wonder if that's what's done for Monty Python's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life"?

[@cheesecrumbs9339]

John Denver once stopped during a song live at the Sydney Opera house to reprimand the audience for clapping too fast.

[@maxbladel]

I've heard Elton John say that its just British crowds who have this habit... they clap on the on beat, wheras American crowds clap on the off beat

[@paulpritty7914]

It is accepted in drumming circles that even at the highest level, some players are on the beat, some fractionally behind it and some anticipate the beat, This does not mean that their timekeeping is off, just that people are wired differently, There has been scientific research suggesting that this phenomenon is shared by everyone hence the noise like a bag of crisps being crushed when the audience join in. I believe that I may have listened to every episode of I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue and not only has no audience ever helped in any way during a game in which the music drops out and players have to keep in time acapella, there has not been one instance where they have clapped in time to a piece of music while it has been playing. As a drummer I am compelled to keep time with teeth gritted and eyes tightly shut but invariably I am thwarted from knowing whether I have succeeded as when the music returns it is drowned out by the entirely inappropriate cheering and clapping of the audience, when in all but a handful of instances the performer has disnally failed.That show has run since 1973.