Classic Who "Warriors of the Deep" Parts 3&4 Reaction (9 Year Whoniversary!!)

[@whobp8]

You're not the first person to find Ingrid Pitt's kicking the Myrka hilarious and you certainly won't be the last 😂

[@ajivins1]

It's so 'Garth Marenghi', "Let's DO this..."

[@TheElderBlotch]

"There should have been another way." Hear that? That's the sound of Peter Davison trying to save the episode.

[@siskoid]

I love his line delivery and yes, it does kind of save the story for me.

[@TONES44]

I really don't get why people find this story bad yet will defend stories like love and monsters and nearly any story rose is in which are horrendous. Anyway, the next Story is one of my faves!

[@gumdeo]

@@TONES44 Same. I am looking forward to the next one.

[@adriansherlock3907]

I love this story. It’s not about special effects or budget, it’s the story that counts.

[@ItsArcticVision]

Glad to see I’m not the only one that vibes with this story 😎

[@Darren79]

The right response to Ingrid Pitt (Dr Solow) choosing to karate chop the Myrka is mirth😁

[@AnotherScifiGuy]

"I don't mean to laugh" It's okay, Jess, we all laugh at that part. 😂

[@hornorsilk2901]

This is the story I always think about when I watch the end of the Doctor Dances and the joy of the Doctor when he has a good day, a day in which everyone lives. All too often, he has experienced the reverse.

[@robert_bbiii]

I came here to say the same thing. This is why just this once everyone lives exists

[@jcortese3300]

Same, same -- that's the first thing I thought of at the end of TDD.

[@Tyrconnell]

I was under the impression everyone died, but does Bulic survive?

[@gumdeo]

"What was this?!" Hahaha... 🐉 That karate kick will live in history.

[@nocturne8333]

“There should have been another way.” The Fifth Doctor cannot catch a break.

[@IsiahBradley]

Which is why I thought him weak when I watched him after Baker :) He wasn't, but he seemed so. Now I know he was vulnerable, and there's a big difference.

[@Adam-nb6im]

Kind of fitting that by the time you finish Classic Who it’ll be around your 10 year anniversary of this show.

[@AnthonyP73]

Happy Whonniversary Sesska! What a journey it's been. It's hard to extract much good from this story, except that it was a cold war parable at a time when things looked very bad for the world. Sadly The Five Doctors seems to represent a peak of classic Who and it never really hits those heights consistently again

[@IsiahBradley]

Nine years is a loooonggg time to do anything, particularly in the mid-21st century!!! CONGRATS!!!!!

[@Faction.Paradox]

"There should have been another way" - For all of this stories flaws, it perfectly depicted The Doctor's morals

[@78comicbookguy]

That’s not the Doctor talking, that’s Peter Davison talking to JNT.

[@petersvillage7447]

I'm just disappointed that there isn't a Peter Davison voice on my Satnav. "There should have been another way" would really sum up the quality of its directions.

[@sadako24]

For the worse. The Doctor was many things in the past, but never criminally negligent. This story convinced fandom he was morally obliged to be because taking action to save the day was now 'wrong' because 'violence is bad'.

[@adriansherlock3907]

@@sadako24You know I love you, Sadako, I’ll never hear a bad word about you, but as you know, we have very different opinions on this story. Everyone has been captured by the time the Doctor escapes from the bridge after learning of the Silurian plan. He hesitates to use hexachromite because he wants to overpower them and try to force them into negotiations. His decision is wrong, his judgement is clouded by his own regret about the past. It takes his companions to make him realise he must use the gas. I don’t have a problem with a story where the Doctor is on the wrong track and needs to get off it. He’s not perfect and that’s okay with me. Nonetheless, if the Silurians had been willing to listen to reason, he could have avoided killing team, so there should have been another way to resolve it. That’s how I see it, but I accept that you don’t see it that way. I guess it would be a boring world if we all thought exactly the same about things. Anyway, glad to see you are around. Hope you’re doing well.

[@sadako24]

@@adriansherlock3907 Hi Adrian. I'm doing okay. Hope you're well. I know we never could agree, nor will ever budge on this story, but such is life. I will say I think Davison does a solid job with the material he's got but I still feel his characterisation suffered from too many cooks on the kitchen and no catharsis. It does very much disagree with my politics. Interestingly I've only just started discovering what my political niche is as I've been getting into a lot of Ayn Rand theory recently. It's actually helped clarify my outlook on a lot of things. Sadly it doesn't jibe with too much of Doctor Who, aside from the Hinchcliffe stuff. I've beern thinking recently of getting into doing video reviews again on the show actually. BTW, speaking of creative stuff what's been happening lately in the world of Damon Dark?

[@Nosregni]

This story is the last of Classic DW’s longest uninterrupted run of returning baddies: starting at Earthshock with the Cybermen, then the Master, Omega, the Mara, the Black Guardian three times, the Master again, everyone for the anniversary, then finally the Silurians and Sea Devils!

[@LightLife4]

The Master and the Cybermen do return

[@dupersuper1938]

@@LightLife4 "uninterrupted"

[@LightLife4]

@@dupersuper1938 excuse me

[@jacobhogan3208]

9 years is wild to think about

[@jimcat6795]

Happy Whonivesary!!

[@mrdoctorgilmore]

Happy Anniversary! I always appreciate seeing your more optimistic view on divisive stories and give them a new perspective.

[@truthseeker3503]

This episode had a lot behind the scenes problems, but this season is very strong, and Peter Davison says it's his favourite of his tenure.

[@noneya3635]

Yeah home girls Russian karate never ceases to crack me up.

[@thenamesgould]

I think you summed it up perfectly. A story with a lot of potential and a powerful finish, but things just didn’t go well during production and that potential wasn’t fully realised on screen. A shame, but there’s still things to enjoy about it.

[@IsaacKuo]

I'm a new subscriber popping in here since the BBC posted Warriors of the Deep on their new Classic Who KZbin channel. I'll be honest - Warriors of the Deep is deeply underrated. It's a war tragedy. I'm a sucker for story titles with multiple meanings, and the titular "Warriors of the Deep" aren't just the Silurians and Sea Devils. The crew of the Sea Base, as well as the secret agents, are also warriors of the deep. They're basically nuclear missile submarine officers. None of the characters are truly villainous or foolish. No. Each of the Cold War warriors are competent, and don't make silly mistakes. They're all loyal and brave, and are motivated by duty to defend their people. Even the enemy agents only kill when necessary for a mission to defend the lives of billions. It's the Cold War situation that is insane. Even though each Cold Warrior is individually noble and motivated by defense, they end up killing each other. Each and every one of them dead. The Doctor could see it, and he tried to resolve things in a better way. He failed. It was a haunting failure. Also, like .... at 2:10 ... the shocked reaction to the Myrka killing off the nameless people of color. It's just a random moment, but I feel like it highlights how the insanity of the Cold War may be decided by white people, but everyone in the world would suffer the consequences.

[@ImpossibleCaseEdits]

Happy Whoniversary! As always, your reactions are so much fun and a joy to look forward to. I don't think "Warriors of the Deep" is a bad story. As you pointed out, there are some solid ideas at play here. What hurt the serial was the fact it was rushed into production with very little rehearsal time, sets that were far too brightly lit, and a monster (the Myrka) that wasn't even finished. Indeed, if you look closely, Janet Fielding gets a smear of fresh paint on her shoes when Tegan tumbles against the fallen creature. Ingrid Pitt (Solow) using martial arts against the Myrka was Pitt's suggestion. Quite why director Pennant Roberts entertained the suggestion is a mystery for the ages! Don't feel bad about not recognizing Ichtar's name. These are not the same Silurians the Third Doctor encountered on TV. The script should have made it clear the events being referenced to were from an unseen adventure. It would eventually be told as part of The Missing Adventures range of novels in "The Scales of Injustice".

[@DoctorWossname]

Watching this now it kinda seems like a re-write of Earthshock with battles in corridors, humans focussed on anything except the actual threat and the Doctor paying a price at the end.

[@MrOhara77]

The Silurians in Doctor Who and The Silurians didn't have names. They were called Old Silurian, Young Silurian and Silurian Scientist. They were given names in the novelization, but none of them were called Icthar. BTW if you like grit, your going to love the rest of this season ;-)

[@Polyglot85to90]

The Young Silurian killed the Old Silurian and then he died in the Brigadier's attack. Icthar must therefore be the Silurian Scientist

[@MrOhara77]

@@Polyglot85to90 Actually, according to the novelization, the Scientist's name was K'to. And I don't think the Doctor and the Scientist ever met (at least not on screen). However, there was a book called The Scales of Injustice, where the 3rd Doctor does meet Icthar (who is revealed to be the Old Silurian's brother). But take it as you will.

[@MechaDot1]

5:40 "What was that?!" That's something what I've been wondering since first saw this episode.

[@fadikhoory5350]

It is embarrassing for a black belt.

[@russytherutan]

Peter shines here despite the stories issues. Not the best but I still enjoy it. The good news is that there is now for me a superb run of very entertaining stories. Loving your reactions.

[@JustB3NJI]

I can't handle these Silurians, I just can't. And happy Who Aniversary! how has it been 9 years?!?!?!?!?

[@Allancarlostani]

The good news is that we only have two bad stories this season, "Warriors of the Deep" being one of them (and the other... you know which one). The next batch of episodes will be very good.

[@davidpo5517]

😂I can't imagine which "other" one you're talking about?! haha, I'll admit to looking forward to it just to watch her face. It'll be good practise for what's to come...

[@Skeezer66]

I don't think this one is that bad, because the last part is mostly so strong, but that other story . . . yeesh!!!

[@adriansherlock3907]

Davison has a fantastic final run of stories.

[@alexfletcher5192]

I didn't see the opening moments of part 4 until 'Warriors of the Deep' came out on video cassette, because 'Knight Rider' was finishing on the other channel (and we only had four in those days). I don't know if that tells you something about the stature of American imports at the time, in comparison to what we were producing. I should have been happier with it. The 1980s were the boom time for Doctor Who in print, with many of the 1960s serials being novelized for a generation that hadn't seen them. And this story screams 'Base under Siege' as loudly as any Troughton adventure from 1967.

[@1rhpsfan]

5:38 Nash: You're a Doctor, not a Ninja!

[@bugsby4663]

This much derided story actually has a great script but it was rushed due to the BBC prioritizing the 1983 general election. This meant the Myrka was only half finished and the paint was still wet as they went into filming. It would have looked much better (and closer to the script) if they had turned down the lighting. However, there is no explanation for Ingrid Pitt's utterly bizarre decision to attempt karate on the Myrka.

[@GeoffreyBrundell]

Happy Anniversary I have been watching your classic Dr who reactions since day one,🎉❤

[@alexfletcher5192]

For a generation of British fans, this story has become synonymous with a later observation made about the show in the 1980s; that it was sliding into parody or irrelevance. And it's certainly true that the production is ridden with problems. The Myrka was not ready for studio (anymore than it was ready to engage in hand-to-hand combat) and the sight of Sea Devils in Samurai helmets, with their heads lolling around as they move, inspires more hilarity than terror. It does feel like nobody was quite doing their homework on this one. The Silurians' third eyes blink, Dalek-style, in time with their voices because - allegedly - nobody could remember why they lit up in the first place. Which is an incredible assertion. And battling bravely through all this (and never letting you down) is the figure of Peter Davison. He spouts references to things we never saw on screen and you roll with it, but there really should have been another way....

[@moderndancingfool]

Aside from the slowest moving villians since Michael Myers wandering the hospital corridors of Halloween 2 forty-some years ago, and the vague 'power blocks' in the world fighting (both being annoyances) I still have a soft spot for Warriors of the Deep, only for the fact that the last line drop is one of the best conclusions in the history of the show. Davison put his entire soul into that one. And remember - never karate kick a giant monster (or at least two people playing one)

[@BeagleBabyBeastie]

So much potential with this one but it just didn't quite gel until the end scene. I do really like the updated Silurian & Sea Devil costumes though. Happy WHOniversary! 💙💙

[@GeordieJoe1892]

It was always going to be difficult for any story to follow up after The Five Doctors. Warriors of the Deep isn't regarded very highly among the majority of the fandom it seems. The pacing is noticeably slow at times as you say and there certainly is wasted potential here. It feels to me like a rushed story and those noticeably slow moments as discussed were the writers padding out the runtime for TV. That would also explain the dark but slightly sudden ending. "Everyone's dead, the end, roll credits" Solow attempting to fight the Myrka with her martial arts skills was a weird moment but it did make me laugh. It was like seeing Mrs Trunchbull fighting a sea monster.

[@lucasdolding6924]

The cynically dark ending is mostly just cos the Eric Saward era is unfortunately like that a lot of the time, it works occasionally but overall I'd say it had quite a negative effect on the show as a whole and where they started to get things wrong leading to its cancellation.

[@sadako24]

Frankly I think it might've been better had they just ended the show on The Five Doctors. A good note to remember the show on, and with an open door to a potential revival later. All this does for me is sully the show's memory.

[@lucasdolding6924]

@@sadako24 Absolutely not, there's so many good stories post-Five Doctors and I wouldn't wanna live in a world with no Colin or Sylv as the Doctor and no S25 and S26.

[@robalexander8065]

​@@sadako24 JN-T considered leaving after The Five Doctors. A continuation of the series under a new production team would have been interesting. However, whoever took over would probably still have had a battle with the Sci-fi-hating BBC management of the late 80s.

[@kemmdog4444]

Of course some of the Sea Devils heads tend to lean to the right.

[@ryanpollard1166]

5:35 - This, for many, is the abiding image from Warriors of the Deep. A moment so embarrassingly laughable that 18 years later it was shown on an episode of Room 101, a comedy show where celebrities will pick and talk about things they hate and have them banished to room 101. For that episode, they had Michael Grade on the show, and in 1984, Grade was made Controller of BBC1 and he was a person who had very little interest, or sympathy, for science fiction, particularly hating on Doctor Who, deeming it "rubbish" and "pathetic", as well as mocking it for its low production values. He used that particular scene of the Myrka to justify his loathing and why he wanted to get the show cancelled. There were many factors towards Classic Doctor Who's slow decline in popularity and eventual cancellation by the end of the 1980's, and Grade's hatred of the show was a major one, one that was also heavily shared with Jonathan Powell, the then Head of Drama Series and Serials at the BBC who also wanted Doctor Who cancelled. At that point, Doctor Who was starting to no longer be considered popular within the BBC Drama department, actually being viewed as something of an embarrassment. Goes to show that Doctor Who's worst enemies weren't Davros, the Daleks, the Cybermen, the Master, the Sontarans, the Ice Warriors, the Zygons or Sutekh. It was both Michael Grade and Jonathan Powell!

[@jokerz7936]

The thing I hated most about Grade's comments was the production value of the show. It's like if you thought it looked cheap you could have given it more money. Without getting into spoilers the show did catch on with the McCoy Era with more down to Earth stories in his last season. But it was too late for the show.

[@andrewroberts299]

It’s rather ironic that as part of his job as head of Drama Series and Serials, Powell had to read every script that landed on his desk (and not just Doctor Who) and sanction them before they went into production. So he is also partly to blame for stories like “Warriors of the Deep,” (as well as a number of 6th Doctor stories) for being made, when they clearly had high body counts and dark and disturbing moments in them that were perhaps not suitable for a family slot on the BBC tea time schedules! Yet after the cancellation was first announced, Powell criticised one of the 6th Doctors stories (the 2nd story in Colin Baker’s first full season) as being too nasty and horrifying, yet it was he who had originally sanctioned it to go into production in the first place! Perhaps he read all the scripts for that season and thought that the content was so bad (both for the story ideas and the horror element in them) that he knew that once they were aired he would then have the justification to cancel the show once and for all? Fun fact: I watched this story this morning for the first time in years and noticed a major continuity cock up which I hadn’t noticed before. In episode 4. Bulic gives Tegan a leg up for her to be first to enter the narrow only-wide-enough-for-one-person-to-get-through ventilation shaft, yet when we see them later, Bulic is already in the next room, helping Tegan out of the ventilator shaft? How did Bulic get in front of Tegan to do that??? 🤣

[@stickytapenrust6869]

Don’t forget Peter Cregeen. Both he and Powell made the decision to “suspend” Who in 1989, which was two years after Grade left for Channel Four, Powell replaced him as controller of BBC1 and Cregeen replaced *him* in turn as head of drama. Cregeen had been recruited externally, he had been poached from ITV station Thames Television as an executive producer of drama series, including The Bill.

[@stickytapenrust6869]

@@jokerz7936He couldn’t have given it more money, the management above him would have refused because an anti-BBC Thatcher government gave the BBC a TV licence agreement that was less than the BBC actually needed. (Plus ça change!)

[@ryanpollard1166]

@@jokerz7936 Jonathan Powell himself said that they could've rejuvenated Doctor Who but chose not to. They preferred to do other things

[@DrTenochtitlan]

In many ways, this episode is the exact opposite of "The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances". "Just this once... everybody lives" vs. this time, absolutely everybody died.

[@stephencoppins9467]

Gems can be found in every Doctor Who story, including Warriors of the Deep.

[@stuartwho]

You are spot on with your review of this story. Probably the only positive you didn’t mention were the fantastic if overlit sets.

[@markleneker9923]

1:53 I didn't know the Sweathogs were in this episode!

[@cyberleadr]

It's funny about the anniversary. I started watching you regularly around Tom's last season, and I've been going back over your older videos. Starting with classic Who, but now I'm watching your NuWho reactions, and it's been quite a ride. I just finished your reaction to the season 8 finale (with Missy) and it's fascinating to see your reaction to the end of that given that I know that in your future how much you'll come to love the Brigadier. It was fascinating to see your journey in the early seasons and it's the next best thing to a miracle that you stuck with the show despite the fact that the first few seasons didn't really capture your heart, shall we say? I wonder if you ever consider going back to those seasons to see if they hit differently now that you've got this history with the classics? I'm very much looking forward to your 10th year. The rest of the classic series might not be the highest point of the series but I think you're gonna have a lot of fun. I don't know if you'll find a way to react to them or not, but I highly recommend listening to the Big Finish Doctor Who audio adventures. I think you'd especially love the 6th and 8th doctors' stories in those.

[@cooluncle4242]

Obviously, she hasn't got to 6 yet, so I won't comment on his era, but I definitely found a new appreciation for the 6th Doctor in Big Finish. It was also nice to get some 8th Doctor content on Big Finish.

[@Wannabe_Baby]

Happy Whoniversary! So amazing to think that you've been watching for this long. With all the Doctor Who videos you've done besides reactions (like reviews and Doctor Who December), it wouldn't surprise me if you've put out more Doctor Who content than the BBC. You were kinder to this episode than I think most of us were. Not that I hated it but to me, it's like the Doctor, Tegan and Turlough are the only ones injecting some life into it. I think the rest of it is a contender for the weakest "base under siege" story. I think the ending is interesting because it's different but it feels a bit unearned. The Doctor preaching about the Silurians being noble when they're trying to start a nuclear apocalypse really irritated me.

[@mmattson8947]

5:37 This episode might have influenced "The Matrix" (with the neck ports and downloading skills), but maybe it was an inspiration for "Save the Last Dance" too.

[@SKIP-yj3xp]

The Silurian leader was never named in the Pertwee Story. It sucks that the humans were willing to wage war against each other, but never worried about the consequences of war, until death and destruction became real.

[@Problembeing]

Don't worry - We ALL laughed.

[@Gingerprince521]

Despite it's flaws I've always had a soft spot for this story. The image of the Doctor drowning (from the first episode) stuck in my mind for years until I got to see it again. Had it not had problems behind the scenes this could have been a lot better but I still enjoy it and that last line is great.

[@timidwolf]

I sometimes wonder whether the weeping angels were inspired by classic DW monsters, really slow moving but somehow still catch up with you when you're not looking.

[@DamnQuilty]

Happy Whoniverary❤😊

[@simonmartin5030]

Hello there, I've enjoyed many of your Doctor Who reactions, I love classic Who and it's fun to revisit, this is a story that has flaws but it is entertaining... When in a jam with the Murka don't forget your judo 🥋😁

[@WilliamHuebler]

I think this is where it becomes more apparent, the jnt era always has good ambitions and ideas, but sometimes it just doesn’t hit the mark. But the ending scene is so well done by Peter Davison and is a classic who moment that sticks with u. It’s just a pity about the rest of it.

[@andygozzo72]

this was 'infamous' for the lumbering slow myrka, but i think it could be rationally explained, its a creatuee more used to living in deep water under high pressure, with all its buoyancy, take it out of that, not surprised it has a hard time, its a wonder its internal body pressure didnt cause it to swell and explode!

[@finnstewart4747]

Yeah, "frustrating" is a very good way to describe this story. Peter puts in a 10/10 performance as always, there's a lot of great ideas somewhere in there, but the behind the scenes issues really stand out here. Apparently it's hard to make a Sea Devils story without having some major behind the scenes trouble.

[@kant12]

The ending pretty much sums up this era.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

"Everybody Was Kung-Fu Fighting! These Kicks Were As Fast As Lightning! In Fact It Was Alittle Bit Frightening But The Myrka Fought With Expert Timing! They Were The Funkey Sea Creatures From A Funky Seabase". 😂 I will say I loved the samurai Sea Devils. I agree that "Dr. Who" isn't always about happy endings which unfortunately the current era of the show lacks today because it isn't a pretty world out there and it should be addressed to it's younger audience which I feel writers today don't have enough courage to do. Happy Whoniversary even though I have to be brutally honest I despised the word "Whoniverse".

[@seamusburke639]

I swear, when Peter Davison first gets a good look at the Myrka, you can almost pinpoint the moment he decided to quit the show.

[@Allancarlostani]

My big problem with this story isn't even the slow pace or the terrible visual effects, but rather the fact that there isn't a single sympathetic character other than the Doctor, Tegan and Turlough. It's a little hard to care about humans or Silurians or Sea Devils if they're all portrayed as jerks or just plain annoying. Having said all that, the final scene is actually pretty good. I just wish the rest of the four episodes had been at this same level of quality

[@sadako24]

I'm going to slightly disagree there. I don't even think the Doctor is at all sympathetic here. Infact I find him more unlikable here than the Sixth Doctor ever was. He knew the Hexacromite option was there all along, and deliberately didn't even tell the humans about it until they're near all dead. Worse, the story seems to honestly want us to see him as some kind of saint for it.

[@Stuart_Cox1969]

"The 1982 General Election, meant that BBC studio-space, was at a premium. Therefore, Doctor Who was forced to work to a much smaller production floorspace and timeframe, than normally afforded. As a result, Warriors Of The Deep holds the dubious distinction, of being one of the stories held up - as an example of why Doctor Who began to go off the boil [BBC exec Michael Grade later commented that this serial was the one to highlight Who’s shortcomings]".

[@stickytapenrust6869]

*1983 general election. The only election we had in 1982 was the local council elections.

[@Darren79]

24:50 - don't worry it's a dodgy bit of continuity that doesn't fit with the Jon Pertwee story.

[@Jaketherobonrd]

“There should have been another way” pretty sums up this whole story. If you’re wondering how the doctor knows Icthar well it’s not from the Silurians if that’s what your thinking. Well there’s actually a book titled “The Scales of Injustice” it was part of the Virgin new adventures range of Books published in 90s if you’re interested in reading it. Also side note Ingrid Pitt’s karate kick on the Myrka really aggravates me so much. Come on! you can do better than that Ingrid!

[@Eltonlaleham]

The Myrka was a pantomime horse and it looked silly, and the scenes where Ingrid Pitts character was killed were rather bizarre and this story was trying to copy Earthshock but without the Cybermen as the main villains .

[@NyderOfSkaro]

Now the script wouldn't be 100% perfect, but with tweaks here and there, and better production values, I really think this could have been great tun. Some fantastic lines, and generally a good atmosphere. "These humans beings will die as they have lived, in a sea of their own blood" is certainly a fair assessment. I don't think production values necessarily matter, but sometimes they can heavily impact a story if they clash with the overall tone. Turlough is also amazing in this story, gets some of his best material. ""There should have been another way", indeed.

[@adriansherlock3907]

It’s frustrating being a Dr Who fan because there is a sort of general consensus or received fan wisdom about which stories are good and which ones are awful. And sometimes it’s depressing because you might love a story that most people despise or you see no value in something everyone else seems to love. I’ll just say I always enjoy this one.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

Yes, I agree. In this particular case, I can see obvious flaws with the production but I think the core idea is a solid one, and I really don't get the hammering this story gets. Too many fans talk about it as if it has no redeeming features, which makes no sense to me!

[@iaincoleman5947]

Ingrid Pitt had been learning some martial arts, and decided to put a couple of moves in to her scene with the Myrka. Yes, it looked crap, but this wasn't the sort of production where they did a second take of anything.

[@kevinwright5129]

Sorry forgot to say. Happy 9th whoniversary! 👏👏

[@LightLife4]

There was no confirmation that Bulic died, if anything you don't hear anything further from him

[@alexfletcher5192]

It's interesting how the context can change from decade to decade. At the time, the change of nuclear apocalypse was not altogether unreal, but today it seems 'The War between the Land and the Sea' presents the real enemy as being climate change. Given world events, however, we could very easily see things slip back the other way.

[@barrypethers9439]

If not previously said, this story was plagued with production problems at the end, they were running out of studio time to complete the recording so had to use rehearsal footage and rushed through many scenes. The Merka was probably one of the worse creatures since season 17 Creature from the Pit

[@Skeezer66]

This is sooo close to being very good!! While the execution was not perfect, the plot and ideas are top Dr. Who! One of those stories where everyone except The Doctor and companions die, and there's a grim tone all through the last episode! The weakest part was Ingrid Pitt vs. The Murka! No, she was NEVER KNOWN for her action scenes, lol!! Overall, this was a fitting Cold War era story.

[@jimcat6795]

Your take on this story is the general consensus I'd say. Great ending though!

[@GhostPurple69]

so much of this story reminds me of the second doctor story, the seeds of death

[@GhostPurple69]

the ice warriors might as well be called sky devils

[@iKillerZombie]

5:36 You’re welcome

[@matthewjay5483]

You didn't forget the Silurian's name, Jess. No such name was mentioned in The Silurians

[@bryananderson8241]

These episodes were instense! I'm not ready to see Seeska lose Tegan yet... 😲

[@idrishall6126]

@5:37 the WORST EVER choreographed FIGHT SCENE in DR WHO history 40 years later....I am still embarrassed this was "kept in"😅

[@normallynormal3573]

I doubt it was ever choreographed. This story had little to no rehearsal and I would fathom a guess that Ingrid Pitt just improvised it. The script probably said something like she "attacked the Myrka trying to defend herself" and just did what she did on the day.

[@TheBrainOfMorbius]

I seem to recall Pitt objecting to her character just being killed outright by the Myrka, and she improvised the, erm... martial arts on the day of recording

[@moviesrocks2]

i think this is the first & only story where everyone but the doctor & friends die. "just for once: everybody dies!"

[@sadako24]

Pyramids of Mars and Horror of Fang Rock did it earlier. Evil of the Daleks actually comes close.

[@jethryk]

Bulic survives but everyone forgets that (the same with Achmed in Pyramids of Mars) and you have to assume/hope there are a few foot soldiers left to keep him company.

[@rogershore3128]

Yep a dire story

[@Wub-t5o]

I miss Solow, Nilson and Maddox in part 4. They are the highlight for me

[@robert_bbiii]

There should have been another way Missions statement of Doctor Who.

[@Paul_1971]

What story are we up to on Patreon?

[@cameronmonaghan6883]

Myrka was a dumb monster but not the worst. Shame the sabatier deaths were silly. I'm okay with the samari look of the Sea Devil costumes. I think Chibnall missed an opportunity to reference it in Legend. When it comes to the moral story this episode is best. From the Doctor referring to the sabotage as a petty feud to Icthar not willing to attempt another chance of peace due to the past failure. And the Sea Devil death is gruesome. But my God having the Doctor say there should have been another way surrounded by corpses is one of the heaviest, brilliant moments of all time!

[@BooneBluemel]

She's gonna be done with the sixth doctor before we get a fourth doctor review

[@JoeThornhill]

1:05 You did what, Doctor? Turn the music down, Sound department!

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

I like this story, but wish there had been less padding in the first 2 parts and more room to tackle the key issues in the last 2. Grim ending, and Peter plays it masterful. Turlough's role seems inconsistent throughout as he shifts from: "Leave the Doctor, he's drown," to "taking guns and fighting for his friends, then in the end back to "it's pointless to try and save the Doctor." Like he has moments of bravery but they're short lived.

[@keithgoodnight3463]

They never named the Silurian leaders back in their two Third Doctor stories, so it's not your memory at fault for not knowing their names now.

[@robalexander8065]

One Pertwee serial. Unless you are referring to throwaway lines in The Sea Devils?

[@keithgoodnight3463]

@ I'm referring to "The Silurians" and "The Sea Devils", in neither of which were their leaders named. (I was informally referring to "Silurian" leaders in both.)

[@mark-s]

I wander why dobbin whoops the merca never appeared again 😅 I'm hoping the new unit spin off will bring back justice to the sea devils after this and the 13th doctor stories

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

These two episodes include the best and the worst of this story as realised on screen. So frustrating! But I will always have a fond place for it in my heart as I saw it on first transmission as a child old enough to be aware of, and worried by, the prospect of all-out nuclear war. Despite its flaws the core of this story for me is that mass slaughter can too easily be the result of people feeling that they're right and that the other side is the aggressor, or that "my" side is entitled to do things that I condemn "your" side for doing. Also, that if "you" do something to "me", then I'm entitled to do something back, as if life is a sport with points tallied rather than something in which immense slaughter and misery can be perpetrated. Sadly we now seem to live in a world in which the idea of sitting down and talking to end or avoid conflict is something that too many political leaders don't even pay lip service to any longer. Capaldi's Doctor isn't a favourite of mine, but he was so right in *that* speech during "The Zygon Inversion", and the world desperately needs more people to think like that. Because really, there should be another way.

[@fadikhoory5350]

The writer said that he did not intend the Myrka to be that stereotypical monster, what was it then, floating gas suffocating anyone that breathed it in? Anyway, if they had to change one thing, it would've been having the Myrka be seen as less as possible and obviously cut Solow's death. I think Tara Ward does better as the story progresses.

[@chrisbrooker7260]

There is a kernel of greatness somewhere in this rather messy, unfinished story. It’s redeemed somewhat by the amazing closing line, one of the best in Who history. Peter Davison is (as always) superb, but some of the other acting is rather dopey. The karate kick on the Myrka is a TV classic moment of another kind…..

[@Wub-t5o]

Bulic survives but no one seems to notice

[@Charliemonsteruk]

There are a lot of design choices that crippled this episode. The over bright scenes, the rubber pantomime horse and the excessively 80's costume and make up. It would have been a much better story if they had gone with a darker, grittier design. Military costumes and contrast lighting to intensify, rather than undermine the tension. And they should have kept the Myrka in the dark, giving shadowy glimpses rather than showing it in all it's dubious glory. It could have been so much more.

[@kevinwright5129]

I personally liked this story. Good to see the sea devils and silurians working together. The costumes look really good, the murka is really awful. I enjoyed the ending, despite the docs best efforts, everyone dies except him, turlough and tegan. 8/10.

[@LightLife4]

In regards to the line "there should've been another way" sometimes there isn't. What disappoints me is the Doctor doesn't always grasp human reactions and why they happen

[@NaanProphet]

I think the concept of the story and most of the script is really good. But the production really let it down. The sets are too bright (apparently a directive from Eric Saward because some of the upcoming stories are darkly lit). Then there's the infamous Myrka costume not even having time to dry. The weird karate stance. The outfits. The bulkhead doors clearly being styrofoam. Peter Davison has been very critical of it.

[@JamieJohnSimms]

Love the set design. Love the characters. Love the concept and ideas that seem to be just, ahem, under the surface. But it just doesn’t work for me. Nothing gels until the end. There’s just an atmosphere to it that makes me disconnect from it. The ending is brilliant though.

[@Shadoestar]

This story has two things going for it: 1) Peter Davison's delivery of the line "There should have been another way." Give him credit for trying to make this mess work. 2) Plenty of unintentional comedy.

[@Mandrozani]

Happy Whoniversary 🎉The time has flown by. It’s a terrible story. Just dire. But watching you watch this was thoroughly entertaining!

[@frankshailes3205]

It towers above a lot of Nu Who.

[@andrewroberts299]

@@frankshailes3205This. As poor as this story is, I’d rather watch “Warriors of the Deep” over anything that was produced by Chibnall.

[@knightinspace2562]

This story is a messy mish-mash that just about pulls itself together in part 4. Good ideas but bad execution. I can still enjoy it but it feels like a missed opportunity, especially given Davison's strong performance here and how much stronger the previous Siluran/Sea Devil stories were. The ending saves it a bit. If i can say one thing about 5's era, its that when it goes bleakly tragic, it makes it hit hard. But no one questions why this one is nicknamed 'Warriors on the Cheap'. Fortunately 5's remaining stories don't have the behind the scenes issues this one does!

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

Reminder: the “noble” Silurians tried to wipe out humanity with a plague last time we saw them. The Doctor’s myopia here borders on speciesism. Yet another reason this serial is the beginning of the end.

[@sadako24]

It really is the worst characterisation the Doctor ever got.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

On this logic, the Doctor should never defend humans, either!

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

@@andrewgwilliam4831 …no. Did the humans plan or attempt genocide here? So far, it’s 2 genocide attempts by the Silurians, and a soon-to-be-wiped-out group of humans. And the Doctor sees moral equivalence? “I sometimes wonder why I like people of this miserable planet so much.” -said to the remaining 3-4 humans as they try to save their own lives and their species’ existence.

[@NinjaboyAdam56345]

Can you react to The Warriorz pilot episode The story begins (zombie serise

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

You all crack me up: *Silurians set out to commit genocide *Silurians kill entire base of humans *Doctor seems only concerned about “noble” genocidal Silurians New who fans: OMG Peter sums up the Doctor’s outlook so well!!!

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

The Silurians state in a clip included in this video that they've abandoned any idea of peaceful co-existence with the humans because of how the humans responded to them in the previous story. From their point of view, the humans are demonstrably genocidal. But the point isn't about which side is "right", or who's done what to whom, it's that each side is contributing to a cycle of violence which must be broken to avoid tragedy for one or both sides. The Doctor doesn't want a mass slaughter of humans or Silurians (or Sea Devils). He's not taking sides, he's trying to stop a situation from spiralling out of control.

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

@ he’s lecturing the humans for DEFENDING themselves. Nastily. And the Silurians’ “peaceful coexistence” last time was murdering spelunkers, killing their leader who is negotiating for peace, and deliberately spreading a plague to wipe out humanity. All BEFORE Lethbridge Stewart blew them up. Just because the lazy script has the Silurians claim some past moral high ground doesn’t excuse genocide. Or is your plea that the ends justify the means?

[@TakeNoteOfThat]

@@andrewgwilliam4831 “…because of how the humans responded to them last time.” You mean when the Silurians released a species-killing plague after murdering or trying to murder every human they encountered?