Classic WoW has NO Future - Guzu reacts

[@guzuTV2]

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[@Glamaryllis]

I might not play every day/week/month/year. But, I will always come back to vanilla.

[@mikemulcahy7739]

Classic plus plz, literally only road not taken

[@Glamaryllis]

@@mikemulcahy7739 amendment: I would also always come back for classic +

[@AprilDineOfficial]

@@Glamarylliswe may be exactly getting this. Back then when they introduced Classic, they did it with Chromie. My guess is when she turned back time we accidentally landed in the wrong timeline and now after WOTLK there’s no world shattering but other events that lead to Classic+. Think about it. With Dragonflight they put us up on it

[@mattfx324]

Private servers held a player base of thousands of players for years before classic came out. There will always be a community that comes back, there will always be a few full servers.

[@hobbyist518]

14:50 "People don't like to have to catch up. It's not a nice feeling." Personally, what I think people don't like is having to WAIT to catch up. Blizzard: "Oh, you want to gear up a new character? Well, even if you get a great guild that clears all the raids and funnels you the best drops, have fun waiting a collective 3 months for all your BIS gear to drop." I know weekly raid lock outs have been around since the very beginning, but if they made the gear grind like the pre-BIS dungeon grind in vanilla, where you can get geared faster simply by running more dungeons and dedicating more time, where your progression depends on your own pace, rather than the pace Blizzard has artificially imposed... If they made raids work like that too, it would be an interesting experiment. Raids are and have always been the chores that you regularly force yourself to log in each week to complete, once you've got them on farm. Leave retail the way it is, fine. But why not experiment with different rulesets for different classic era servers? Try a bunch of different stuff, see what's most popular, what lasts the longest, etc.

[@JPJgamer]

What you are asking for is M+ from retail where you can farm higher ILVL gear from dungeon that what drops in raids.

[@Faude18]

@@JPJgamer no. Just let people raid as much as they want. There's no need for restricting players from doing more raids per week on classic WoW. Make it a daily thing or get rid of the weekly ID reset at a whole. For people who can't clear the raids in a day they could implement a way to save the ID. Just let players do the fucking raids over and over again if they chose to do so. I think the only thing that hinders Blizzard from doing it is that people could get BiS very fast and stop subscribing to the game once that happens,.

[@joelhodoborgas]

Vanilla classic is popping organically right now, people playing WOTLK gatekeep H++ behind 5.2k gs and raids behinds astronomical golds prices GDKPs and wonder why its dying lol. Awful community on wotlk is killing the game

[@Helding]

I would love classic + with Arena and RBG, thous are the 2 features i miss the most from other expantions when i am playing classic.

[@BAMAJiPS]

The way Blizz handled TBC REALLY destroyed the player base confidence when they introduced boosts. Even if you supported that, it split the player base down the middle - I personally know a few who quit and REFUSED to play after that. The remaining friends I play with, the wow token, RMT was the nail in the coffin for them. I cant even get my mates to play anymore.... I tapped out of Wrath in phase 2 ~May and not going back. Classic Era is holding me by a thread. I have ONE friend left who is in the same bag with me. Era/HC. I think when I get a toon to 60 on official HC, I'm packing it in. I think a SIGNIFICANT portion of the [classic] player base want an RPG - not a lobby/instance game with a world that has no meaning. Short of a Classic remaster or a WoW [Vanilla like] 2 - I dont see how much longer I can keep up with the game. It's been ~4 years of classic now and Blizz has really just taken EVERY opportunity for short term gains at the expense of longevity. (Example - trading before 20 on HC official wouldve REALLY extended the life of the servers). I dunno. It's been fun, but I'm wrapping up my journey and have one more 60 in me I suppose. Cheers!

[@luphoxcastl]

I never understood the hate on the boosts. You could only boost 1 character. A lot of people didn't play classic. It's not like it was infinite boosts. THAT would have been bad. When TBC released, all classic content becomes outdated, and people are focused on the relevant content. This makes the classic leveling zones/dungeons a complete shit experience for anybody new. Logically, it makes sense that those who are interested in playing TBC, get to come in and play in to TBC. It in no way affected anybody who experienced classic because by then it was old news. Those who had gear from classic had an advantage in Kara, and had a much easier leveling experience, so it's not like there was a negative there. Arguably, those people should have stayed in classic and everybody should have started fresh imo. Like legit, other than bitching to bitch, I don't see why the 1 boost per account was game breaking in terms of a normal player. (The bot problem was a problem, and would be a problem one way or another. That should be fixed from a different front imo.) I quit WOTLK cause it was boring. Had nothing to do with boosts, RMT, or even the token. I feel like that's just a scapegoat for some people. The game is just boring. It was designed for a different time, and it doesn't value the player's time put in. Eventually you snap out of it, and realize it's just not worth putting the effort in to it.

[@Kingandruler]

@@luphoxcastl It wasn't 1 boost per person, it was 1 boost per account. I knew LOADS of people who had multiple accounts and thus purchased multiple boosts. It's not like Blizzard wasn't aware or something either, they all had these multiple WoW accounts tied to a single bnet id. Its not that I don't agree with you, I actually quit for the same reason you did. Knocked out Ulduar, just got bored of the game after 3.5 years. Vanilla was the most fun to me because it was so different than the other times I've played WoW and there was a real sense of server community. Boosts weren't what made me quit, but I got the people who quit over them. There were a ton of #nochanges people in Vanilla and this was obviously a huge change. Those people are all long gone now but at the time, it was still a fairly popular stance. Yes, they also changed things like black lotus spawns and the storing of world buffs. However, the same people mad about boosts tended to not like those changes as well, and the boosts had an obvious profit motive for Blizzard those other changes didn't.

[@ZoulmanHD]

who cares eksdee

[@gillasosaurus]

​@@luphoxcastlthe boosts were a problem because it made bottimg so much easier. Yeah it was one per account, but when and if a botter had their account banned all they had to do was make a new account and boost it.

[@luphoxcastl]

@@Kingandruler I can agree with that, some people do have multiple accounts, but the average player usually kept 1. MAYBE 2. Even then, that's still not game breaking. I kept 2 accounts but didn't bother ever using the 2nd boost. I just needed the 2nd account for flag flipping, mailing stuff mid-raid and then in to my engineer mailbox, or just other dumb QOL stuff. I fail to see how having that 2nd boost would affect anybody negatively. If anything, it would assist guilds in filling crucial roles that they can't fill due to a class being unpopular. I get that people can have that opinion, I just don't understand the logic of why they're mad about it.

[@leaveacomment]

Turns out Vanilla leveling is the best content WoW ever had. Now imagine we had servers that would rise it's replayability... oh wait

[@chukky1124]

Compared to nowadays its not even close to the best content. there is litterally 0 challenge with mechanics etc in dungeons / raids. Pvp has always been unbalanced but Vanilla took the Prize for being so unplayable for most specs. leveling wise, i can agree that Vanilla , tbc , wotlk leveling was the best, relaxed etc. but end game wise boring as hell

[@needfood4279]

It is crazy how much I do NOT care that Vanilla is not an infinite game. Players will come up with ways to spice up vanilla after hc loses its appeal. Vanilla is more than a game, it just feels good to be in it. I play because it makes me feel good. I believe many feel the same way, games do not need to be overdesigned or hard, or balanced. It just has to be fun.

[@theoutlander1411]

For me, it's TBC. I have a lot of memories of Karazhan, both positive and negative and the most fun I have ever had raiding was doing weekly Sunwell Plateau raids with randoms. Every boss was a huge accomplishment and no we didn't finish the raid but we went in every time with the intent to do so. I also remember certain objectives in other raids as well, like going for tier pieces on specific bosses because the players quite frankly sucked (including myself). In WOTLK, there were some moments that came close to that like defeating Mimiron HM, Yogg 1 light and going for the Undying achievement, but those were more down to luck than coming up with some specific game play after wiping on a boss for an hour. It's possible if not probable that the biggest flaw with WOTLK is that your experience on normal will vary based not on the difficulty of the boss, but how well the players are at not dying to stupid stuff. HM's are that plus good luck on your side. I think the only comparable boss in WOTLK to a TBC boss is Sarth 3 drake 10 man. Vanilla is a whole other beast, because I'd rather never play WOW than rely on 40 people to not die to stupid stuff being led by a raid lead who has no lifed the game on private servers since its inception and has high expectations. I've improved as a player since TBC, but I think it would still be more fun to do that than Vanilla, at least for raiding.

[@freelifematters6193]

I think they still couldve came back after tbc. but with dungeons having vehicle mechanics and glyphs, i am realizing this is the expac that changed it all.. however cata definitely solidified the change.

[@nfc14g]

Wrath PvP is what confirmed classic WoW was done forever. Agree on Vanilla + focus

[@brandonkruse6412]

Classic Legion Hype Order Hall Missions Hype Artifact Power Grind Hype

[@Ambigant]

Every time Guzu says Andy a tiny piece of me dies inside

[@heygek2769]

Cringe Andy

[@DandoBorusu]

classis is dope the way it is, leave it classy. Although if they implement seasonal SOM style versions and name it Classic+ would be interesting.

[@logan27000]

Guzu keep saying "classic+" every video until it's summoned into existence 🌝

[@standardcake18]

i wish they would do the same thing oldschool runescape did. take the old game, and develop it in a different direction

[@jeremiahcomer]

I just left wotlk to go back to classic era because I feel like I can accomplish more and the content feels more cohesive too.

[@mattdavenport789]

I think the point on old playstyle is better said as players used to play to explore and learn about a game now people play to complete or be the best at a gane

[@tactrix1h]

Collections is just more rewarding in retail, because once you collect it you have it on EVERYONE forever. All your pets, your mounts, your toys, and your achievements. As where pre-WoD that was not the case. In every expansion leading up to WoD you had a little more of the collections, it started with just mounts, then came pets, then came toys. Now as far as what Blizzard should do, they should absolutely leave the game alone in terms of expansions going forward, and focus fully on the the plus versions of the expansions. Plus is the future for them, because at the end of the day what players really want is a better overall experience in every xpac, and the only way to achieve that is with plus.

[@in2it85]

*Have you heard of the critically-acclaimed MMORPG FINAL FANTASY 14?* *With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn,* *and the Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for FREE with no restrictions on playtime.*

[@spooky_zen]

in orginal BC the world was still very much populated it didnt feel that differnet from vanilla at the time

[@MethosChannel]

Need Vanilla+, alt timeline and rework some classes.

[@CeasiusC]

It doesn't really need much of a future. It doesn't need much maintenance or development. As long as its always there people will come back to it. The only issue is there are too many realms available.

[@tunasub8097]

i quit official wow because of the insane bot issue and lack of real, human GM's. the introduction of the token to classic really solidified it for me though. thanks for making my decision to go back to pservers easy, blizzard!

[@everynamewastakenomg]

Classic+ is the only way

[@shaunyeo7783]

Yes, imo more 5 man content 👌

[@RayWelpott]

@@shaunyeo7783I think this needs to become Meta, it’s too hard organizing 25 people

[@apierson244]

The exploitation of HC turned me off completely to classic.

[@kmb1659]

the only real problem auf wow classic is, that I can't play it anymore after switch to Mac 5 weeks ago... it looks like there is a bug with the client blizzard doesn't care about :/ xD

[@fufu1405]

Having the best time I've had since original vanilla/tbc/wotlk on Turtle WoW, can't relate to the video. Turtle WoW has shown me how magical the game can feel. Playing anything other than a faithfully done Vanilla+ just feels really sad now.

[@popamihnea6695]

Ppl want to be like streamers. Thats it. Simply put the game is too time consuming and to be able to experience it you cant play at your own pace, you have to either no life OR take shortcuts like GDKPs Ppl want to clear the raid because its a benchmark and it has been since AQ. Another check box in their to do list

[@Sithedd]

Based opinion on WoW is that every player has their own ideal for where they want the game to go. Many will play cata. many will play hc. many will quit. many will play era. after cata? im sure blizz will monetize a way to move those characters. Everyone needs to CHILL OUT! just play the game you like! There are so many options!

[@gostreiver8036]

Wille the goddamn legend

[@chainclaw07]

imo as long as retail learns from what works in Classic and incorporates that into retail, I don't mind that we won't get classic+. I watched a video about a survey for cata that brought up the notion of making old raids and dungeons relevant by scaling item lvls. THAT would be awesome and way better than transmog imo. I even think that you could have orb currency for upgrading itemlvls. for example with wotlk numbers. maybe you can get a 200 Defias brotherhood armor set and with frozen orbs you can upgrade them to 213 or 219 - then to 225 or 232 with conquest orb and 245 with crusader orbs. that way, if you don't like the looks of a current raid item you either give it to someone else and use orbs to upgrade the equipment you like the look of.

[@IBradFrazer]

WoW Classic was one of the best gaming moments for me. I talked to people I had not spoken to since TBC and Wrath. We were all pumped for TBC Classic, but when they announced the boost + mount, it instantly killed the hype train - killing everybody onboard. Blizzard gave the bots the very tool they needed to flourish in TBC and killed it. They did the same with Wrath, but the player numbers were abysmal, so they added the WoW Token to recover from the poor financial numbers. Classic will eventually die, not because it isn't popular anymore, but because of the lack of moderation on Blizzard's part. Bots kill the economy of whatever realm they play on, and with gold being so cheap (1k gold is about $6 on most Classic servers), materials, resources, and BOEs are worthless. Imagine you get an epic 0.01% drop chance BOE, and it's on the auction house for 50 gold, but you can't even sell it for that price because a single person is selling 10 of them and immediately undercuts you by a huge margin. The player can't succeed on a server with a broken economy unless they buy gold to get around it, which will turn new players away from the game. I love Classic, but even I don't want to continue playing. What's the point? PVP is praying you aren't against a premade in full Naxx gear, and raiding is just GDKPs.

[@alexkelly6862]

I'll have some fun on hardcore servers while waiting for news of SOM 2. However i'm really hoping for some classic+ aspect to it. I don't expect new zones/raids, but fingers crossed some class balancing/changes and potentially some added loot to the boss lootables. If it's the same as SOM and just doing diff mechanics for the same gear, It'll die off just as quick. Something new please blizzard, I beg.

[@alantorlaschi3742]

Guzu, in which server are you playing wotlk hardcore? its the same for the horde and the alliance?

[@Xlite69]

How to made a new player record in Vanilla is easy or, make IT FTP. And the foot is in the door for new retail Players 🤔😅

[@avenire]

wotlk feels like it's in a weird space between vanilla and retail. i feel like wotlk just needs to lean into being different, add the rdf back and let ppl enjoy the game. because when they're trying to make it vanilla 2, it's just not as good as the OG.

[@MysteriouslyMilitant]

Four words after these typed out words... ...Private WoW Servers Exist.

[@ChairmanMeow1]

The optimist in me hopes they'll use the time bought with hardcore to design a classic+ Im not convinced AT ALL they'll do Cata classic though. No one wants it.

[@hackintosh3899]

Here's the problem. Everything but Vanilla is bad and vanilla completely broke when they catered to the raiders and made raiding the be all end all of WoW. PvP breaks during AQ because damage keeps going up and stam says the same and it's why everyone but the PVE Andy's bail around this time and population falls off a cliff. The solution is a Classic Plus where you honestly should just trash AQ and Naxx. No one wants to farm consumes for Naxx and AQ is boring AF and the gear is completely broken for some classes. Then make new raids that use Tier 2 as a baseline with dmg and health scaling and add additional PvP gear that is close.

[@dflowers6771]

unpopular opinion but i really like the togc phase

[@fxr.markus]

When you Play Wow ON your Classic Account its different i dont do any mount etc farming, been there done that. Never farmed ZG Tiger in Classic, when i get hard feelings for it i just logg into retail and Ride that Thing 😂

[@Mexican00b]

i remember in wotlk, i got the red drake for doing all the heroic achievements in dungeons? or was it raids? dont really remember... and it was RARE... mym head? waaaaaaaay more RARE... and that pic with 15 lol... but still NOT A SINGLE RED DRAKE... wut?

[@rafaelmunoz1910]

Think Red Drake is from Wyrmrest Accord rep.

[@richbreezy9920]

@@rafaelmunoz1910 He meant the red proto drake from Heroic achievemnts from dungeons. It was rare since many of the achievements were difficult to complete

[@olofh1]

loved farming gold in wotlk, the zones and everythin aaaaaaand then wow token came, so my hard earned 50k was basically worth nothing, thanks blizzard

[@kylesmith987]

Every single change WoW has had is the start of retail. Its such a dumb argument to keep trying to pin it on 1 specific expansion. Every expansion has introduced major changes to the game some of them good and some of them not so good. If we ever do get a Classic+ we need to get a system that allows for people to vote on what gets introduced into the game. This way its dictated by the community. Some like what OSRS did with their system on what gets added to OSRS.

[@duvaldragon]

There needs to be classic servers permanently forever stop forcing us to move then complain that there’s an issue

[@Kavou]

Private servers boys.

[@eviltim3786]

Lmao yes it does, people have BEEN playing classic wow for the last 10+ years well before the official was released. People take breaks it’s completely wrong to think that a game just absolutely needs to stay relevant to the public eye the whole time for it not be dead. Mentally ill behavior indeed.

[@quinlantravis]

Click bait title

[@RinrinFran]

You can make as many videos telling the problems in classic WoW and the incompetent devs won't even bat an eye 'cause they only prefer one version of WoW and that's retail.

[@tevani1]

I mean it makes sense that the devs of a game would prefer its most up to date version.

[@0mn0mable]

stop saying "yep" as if you're approving of the content you're reacting to. There's otherways to show you're engaged with the content you're viewing than that.

[@connor654]

What is classic wow? Oh you mean RMT WoW, or BOT WoW.

[@jaxen231]

Wow classic needs vertical progression like solo towers with cool bosses that gets harder and harder each stage. A better crafting system and so on

[@Relbl]

Classic+ literally makes no sense at all unless more people are playing Vanilla than retail. And I don't mean Wrath and Vanilla, I mean JUST Vanilla. And forgive me for saying I don't think that's the case by a long shot. The experiment has been run -- literally only Vanilla has that true blue nostalgia that makes in infinitely re-playable. If Blizz wants to keep marching forward into Cata and MoP etc then I agree it's a dead game mode. I think their best bet is to condense down and make three or four server for each XPac and leave it at that, make the next retail XPac the final one, and build a WoW2 that can be "Classic+" for all intents and purposes

[@theoutlander1411]

Nobody was even playing Classic Era until Ulduar aside from HC people on Official Blizzard servers. The popular private servers are Wrath and Vanilla+. Once CE got popular again, suddenly the meme of "Vanilla is the best and true Classic Experience" popped up and once CE dies, you'll see those comments die down with it. Vanilla has a bunch of flaws, and unless you're an Altoholic and/or really, for some reason, like the raids over later expansions there's nothing for people there. I haven't played on a PVP realm there, but if it's anything like other Classics you don't even have the fun of jumping raids, random players or dispelling world buffs due to faction congregating on specific servers either. If you like it, enjoy it, but to say Vanilla is infinitely re-playable it's a bit much.

[@josephteller9715]

They need to put Achievements into a classic relaunch...

[@Effexlol]

wrath sucks. Vanilla forever.

[@maxmusterfrau5127]

Why want people vanilla +? The game is so unbalanced in every way, and wrath is way more balanced. Why don’t build up on that?

[@imnackeredsirnackered948]

My issues with retail. 1. Mechanics. Mechanically the game is bloated. Classic to wrath had a lot of spells but your rotation was much smaller and simpler in PVE and in PVP you still had a simpler rotation, but you also had a lot of spells to fall back on. In retail there are too many spells you have to use and even though you do big damage with them it does not feel like you do big damage. Retail just feels of completely. Combat also is too fast where you can pull 20 mobs and just cut them down like a lawnmower on grass. In classic you had to be more strategic when grinding mobs because too many could kill you. 2. Gearing/Levelling. Gearing and levelling is too fast and too constant taking out the magic of reaching level 18 and getting your first "Blue" Dungeons drop way too much loot and the magic of going from a piece of green to blue and to purple feels meaningless in retail. Levelling is way to fast and reaching 60 in like 2 hours just killed that major part of wow that is levelling a toon. Gearing at max level was also no longer a major feeling of being rewarded because i was obtaining and replacing gear way to often. That feeling of reaching max level and then having to either grind to get your first purple or get lucky to get a purple was gone. You got gear so often and replaced it so often that it made the game feel meaningless and soulless. 4. Collections/Transmog. I have no issue with collections such as mounts, pets etc however my issue with this in retail is that it is too bloated, and everyone today seems to have a sick mount they either bought on the store or did some silly achievement. In my opinion mounts should be much rarer to obtain and thus becoming more rewarding. I remember back in 2007 seeing someone with a netherdrake and thought that was the coolest thing ever because cool looking mounts were rare. Transmog is a personal beef i have since I hate the whole "hiding your actual gear to look like something different". i remember seeing someone in awesome looking gear and went to inspect him and found he was just wearing blues and his gear was from like two expansions ago. 5. Fantasy saturation. The world has become too over whelming with glamorous and spectacular fantasy that the worlds blizzard builds no longer have that "magic" feeling to it. Most mobs you run into are big, majestic beasts and everything feels too ethereal to the point that nothing feels magical anymore. With classic the world looked great, relatable and every now and then you would get a Dose of a magical place. This is why The night elf starting area were so cool because other places like barrens and Elwyn forest looked relatable but then you had a magical place like teldrassil. Most mobs in classic were Humanoids, wolfs, bears and sometimes magical looking creatures which added to that fantasy and magic feeling.

[@resto95]

Copium is hard in mmos all youre games are dead i hate saying it but stop wasting ur time and money. Hurts to say but youre time is actually valuable playing a 15 year old game thats canabalized itself over 20 years isnt conducive to valueing youre time.

[@medley1238]

retail is garbage, period

[@bobjones4469]

Lol, vanilla "PvP," that unbalanced mess and the sht show that is World PvP. Thank god World PvP died, I don't even play MMOs anymore and I'm glad it's dead, it was terrible.

[@Falseomega]

first...Guzu your videos and streams are amazing! :D

[@joelhodoborgas]

WillE has got super annoying lately.

[@dockspringfield1213]

Right?

[@bobjones4469]

No, Wrath was the height of WoW, stats and facts don't care about your feelings.

[@andrewg3196]

Like the fact that Wrath was the first time WoW stopped gaining subscribers? All the subs during Wrath were gained during Vanilla and TBC

[@madknox4666]

Allready changed in TBC yes killed world pvp with flying mounts, Go get epic gear in shops you earned from duing normal dungeons, i could go on for hrs, EVERY SINGLE EXP for wow it went downhill, game got noobanised so the majority of players could get to endgame stuff aswell with out putting eany time into the game what so ever!!