Classic WoW: Rogue Leveling Guide (Talents, Rotation, Weapon Progression, Tips & Tricks)

[@apoc5412]

Frontstabbing doesn't work in classic, it was a private server flaw

[@CallMeMimi27]

private for life

[@errorehd7865]

"flaw"

[@doooooomer]

15:20 STOP! You dont go 5/5 Deflection, you go 5/5 Precision. At that level, hit rating is a godsend.

[@maltal7571]

wish this was higher

[@UshankaMaster]

Damn it, I've just invested a point in Deflection. Guess I'll just invest the other 5 points into Precision. Or rather pick up that deflect spell, idk what it's called? Im newb

[@MelonadeFX]

don't you want riposte tough?

[@lutzrambo8191]

this guy! i lvled 2 Rogues to lvl 25 in the last 3 Weeks (dont ask pls) and can confirm that Precision feels WAY better.

[@rosvokomppania]

I got em both

[@FreedomFighter08]

What a lot of guys forget is that Vanilla WoW was probably most peoples 1st mmorpg and the competitive mindset of min/making, bis items, knowing the meta mindset etc came from private servers/moba games/online competitive scene of gaming. Having the private server mentality of knowing everything, following a certain pattern will affect the true original vanilla experience. For example now when I play online games be it mmorpgs or mobas I always learn the meta and the competitive side of the game firstly. This mindset didnt exist before because it was all about the unknown, forging your own adventure and learning on the way not knowing everything which created a lot of adventurous memories, the true vanilla experience was before the competitive side of mmorpgs/mobas/online gaming in general came into play or when meta awareness wasn't a thing at all. I'm not saying it is the right way to play because you cant go back in time and reverse and erase memory but the true vanilla experience is not just about "no changes" it is also about the innocence of a child stepping into a world not knowing anything about wow/online gaming/competitive gaming/meta game & stepping into the unknown! Im so freaking hyped for classic cya there guys we're going home! :'-) !

[@kirarozu]

MOMMA! MOMMA IM COMIN HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME!

[@izaak24]

Nice bro, nice.

[@erickihrig1682]

Spot on, wish I could go back. I can't play games without the min/max mindset anymore. Ruins a lot of games for me too. But it's just second nature now.

[@TheGrimmjow2]

Well to be honest: videos like these are people who want to still heavily enjoy the game but in a reasonable and effective way. Since a lot of the players who stick around past 20 are people who have lives, probably a family, etc now. Who can't spend 5 years just trying to make it to 60 again. As you forget: even with mid/maxing: vanilla is still a super long journey. It's not retail where you can get a character to 120 in 3 hours. The fastest speedrun of this game from 1 to 60 is about 100 hours of in-game time. And that's JUST leveling on an empty world where no one will steal your mobs or what-not. Not to mention: not everyone speed levels. I know many of people who will still take it slow and enjoy their time even though they will mid/max and alot of players i know played vanilla back in the day but never even experienced late and endgame so mid/maxing will only take them so far. This isn't a video for every single player in wow who will play rogue to follow. It's just one for people who want to do efficiently.

[@coolasice3531]

FreedomFighter08 I completely agree with you. I started vanilla back in halloween of 2006. I stopped playing after wrath ended. Anyone who is going to play re-release vanilla should enjoy the journey. These videos are helpful and all but like you said, vanilla was great because we where stepping into a unknown game full of delight. Players should keep the competitive grinding out and just have fun. I personally won't come back to wow even when the re-release of vanilla launches. The game will never feel the same as it once did when i was in my early teenage youth. To be honest, I don't have another teenage youth to grind on this masterpiece of a game. Yet, this game and these videos on youtube bring back so many delightful memories of my past gaming experience on World of Warcraft.

[@toddmadigan7675]

What a ridiculously comprehensive guide! The amount of time you all put into this is staggering. Thank you all so much.

[@jayleavittphotograph]

You keep mentioning that for XP "above and below, you only get a percentage" --- but for higher level mobs, that percentage is higher. Level 20 char killing a level 20 mob is 145xp - 20 killing 21 is 152 (and 132 for 19). What's important is time to kill. If you can kill a +1 mob the same as an even mob, go for the 5% more xp. If you can kill a -2 mob 25% faster, take the 13% xp hit. It adds up.

[@199121599]

this is real feedback buried so deep down in the comments, and the fourth video with that error included. ...it's too late to fix those videos friend, now you can only double down on your views and make your following look stupid when they repeat your gospel

[@danielskrivan6921]

The other thing about lower-level mobs is they're less likely to kill you, especially with his mantra of never being at full health or mana (because then you're wasting resources). Less corpse runs = faster leveling.

[@zppmo]

how is a mob 2 levels lower 25% faster to kill

[@Uncle19]

He mentioned "compared to base", so if at level 10, a lvl 10 mob gives 100xp and at level 11 a lvl 11 mob gives 200 xp, when you are level 10, the lvl 11 mob gives 200*0.9=180 and at level 11 the level 10 mob gives 100*0.9=90, make sense? So killing a mob your level gives optimal xp compared to BASE xp for that mob level

[@arthusli]

@@Uncle19 I tested your theory. I get 94XP for killing a lvl10 mob @lvl9. When I reach lvl10, I get 95XP for killing the same mob, which means your theory is right. Kargoz is also right

[@beholdthesupergirl]

The magic in vanilla was largely because it was all new and none of us really knew what we were doing, and didn't have guides like this. The fun was in figuring it out. This guide and the others like it are so well done it would have made us masters of WoW, and I'd have quit halfway through BC.

[@tehjamerz]

Classic is gonna ruin my life

[@san709]

northdale already is ruining mine i can't wait for classic

[@Jones-o8s]

Again...

[@LaresGoldFarm]

Hypee

[@ef2038]

Insaned mine too, i lost my job lol, but i dont care, for the moment i have enough ressources.. lol

[@frostedlambs]

yeah... its gonna be beautiful

[@holyflygon]

idk before watching these guides i felt like i was going to play either a hunter or a mage in classic. NOW after watched a bunch of these guides idk you make every class seem so fun and interesting to play. Even tho most raids only want a few classes i know i can still play things like rogues and have fun

[@barry5085]

Really admire the amount of time and effort you put in to these guides especially when addressing unintuitive game mechanics that you get from really good players

[@Pmeaney1000]

Thank you for being seemingly the only guide in the world that actually tells me what order to grab talents instead of just posting a picture of the final talent build.

[@PlatinumWoW]

No Kargoz Vid: I sleep. New Rogue Leveling Guide Video: REAL SHIT

[@ekazzgaming5576]

I usually don’t comment on videos, but how can I not say; Thank you. This guide is just GREAT even for a Vanilla player coming back. It is so helpful.

[@poolboy8666]

Who else is making a Rogue on Classic wow next summer? Can’t wait to world pvp!

[@atcJ]

I'll be making it next winter

[@Nydox]

i just can’t wait! i can’t wait to sit outside brm and sap the last dude running into mc and just make half the guild run out to help!!

[@globalcombattv]

What about PVE Pool Boy?!?!

[@LaresGoldFarm]

Not sure yet between rogue or hunter

[@ef2038]

Pool Boy i will play undead rogue like i always did, because iam deadinside

[@johniegrams3531]

I watched this at classic launch, was scrolling down the list today and noticed its been 3 years, then got hit with 2 years worth of classic shenanigans nostalgia on my rogue, thanks for making that possible bro

[@remyllebeau77]

I couldn't even fathom why spirit was on gear back when I started playing. Thought it was all trash tier gear. But all this brings me back to when I would use my rogue and solo the first boss of Uldaman, Revelosh. :)

[@ryans660]

I'm rolling on the PvE Classic server just because of the nightmares of rogue ambushes in STV from back in the day. Great guides Kar! I can't wait for the shaman vid.

[@kirarozu]

I think I'll do the same. I hate trying to level when the server starts fresh and people just HAVE to kill you... especially when the honor system isn't in the game yet.

[@Mr.Reality]

pussy

[@Lickiecat]

I have been using these guides in the videos alone without even realizing they are amazingly formatted documents. The quality is so high I was almost expecting to pay.

[@petrhubacek7669]

Man I love your videos and the way you edit them. Also I got to a point where I play your guides like this one or shammy one to help me sleep. YOu voice makes me so comfortable it gives me good sleep even :) Good job, keep it up

[@kargozgaming]

Glad you like them!

[@Patrick-md3le]

Hey, just want to tell you how much I enjoy these videos and I appreciate how much effort you put into them. Looking forward to the Shaman video!

[@kargozgaming]

thanks man :3

[@SpitfireZero]

Never paid attention in class but here I am taking this lecture from Mr. Kargoz and I havent missed a beat. My notes looking fly as hell. Gonna go implement this on a vanilla private server now.

[@alec3476]

These videos are fantastic, thank you so much for making them! You've got me super hyped for leveling in classic.

[@Cardan011]

My main was rogue in vanilla, had ridiculous amount of fun with him, one shooting mages, for leveling alchemy helped me a lot , having pots ready

[@julmustftw]

I really don't think "frontstabbing" will be a thing in classic

[@TheRealCHIMShady]

In general there are gonna be a lot of "classic veterans" that are gonna cry about their precious pirate server mechanics not working when retail vanilla releases. I expect this and the paladin guide to be remade when it does launch lol

[@Xepent]

@@TheRealCHIMShady what about the paladin's would change?

[@TheRealCHIMShady]

Enemy mob white hits didn't trigger on crit effects if you sat down in retail vanilla, unlike pirate servers. There is a way to trigger reck stacks but its unreliable as you use latency to sit down when the attack triggers but stand when the attack hits. Retail will not be as efficient as its made out to be in the guide. Also his paladin guide lists whirlwind axe in the weapon progression (a warrior class quest weapon).

[@someone-ji2zb]

Yea... the amount of people who think /sit crit proccing worked in vanilla annoys the crap out of me. Every warrior on private servers just lvl as fury for close to 100% uptime on enrage, since they also proc blood craze healing to boot. It is actually a huge reason as to why fury is so dominant on the meters on most private servers right now. Yea, warriors were top tier in naxx40 and a lot of AQ40, but they weren't like 20% ahead of most of the raid like they are on kronos or lightshope. Being able to proc enrage in raid fights when aoe splash is inc is just busted. It just means you need to chug a healing pot at times, but the payout is that your healing pot is also a massive consumable damage buff.

[@TheRealCHIMShady]

Its gonna be funny seeing how many #hardcore #nochanges start begging for blizzard to make the fury enrage and blood craze triggered by /sit

[@slim2032]

just wanted to say this was very precise and comprehensive and worth the watch, from a guy who hasn't played in a long time, and never played during vanilla. thanks for the strong video buds

[@Hejsandk]

Hey Kargoz, once again super nice ! I wanna point something that might be a minor thing but the thumbnails for all the guides has been clean, super entriguing and catchy. And i don't understand how you toss these out so fast

[@sunburnd]

kargoz PLEASE make another one of these seeing as fronstabbing is not a thing in classic, it would be so valuable to me and many other rogues

[@zerglin]

Tested frontstabbing in the stress test... won't be a thing in classic

[@nepenthesspectabilis1907]

Thanks for this!!!!! Honestly sounds stupidly cheesy anyway...."Front" Back stabbing .... immersion breaker.

[@cardy4ever]

Yep it was a bug and was never intended to work. Private servers had mobs move at a much laggier/slower FPS but the FPS on launch will be 60 for all mobs. I can confirm frontstabbing is not working and will never work anymore for Blizzard's own vanilla(classic) servers.

[@sumbody694]

Just based on how most boss fights go you will have to run around like a chicken with your head cut off no matter how you play. You should be constantly re-adjusting yourself anyway while maintaining max dps.

[@BITCOIlN]

I'm happy, I hate bullshit bug abuse like this.

[@Flamalamx]

@@BITCOIlN I wouldn't say it's bug abusing it's being smart with mechanics, every game things like this happen.

[@demdoni]

Nice guide, thanks for putting in the time to produce it. One thing I would like to comment on, is the 85% base chance to crit on your first attack when you use the frontstab method. That can not be true, due to the way crit and hit works in vanilla. Let's say you have 5 % hit due to your talents, then your "Crit cap" would be 34,8% - everything past that point won''t make a difference. And this is taking into account that you are hitting the mob from behind, and therefore it can not dogde og parry your attack... 34,8% you can not get more than that! The more +Hit gear you get, the greater your "Crit cap" will be. Let's say you have 24% hit then your "crit cap" would be 53,8% - but still no where near 85%. Not saying the build isn't good, just don't expect to crit on 85% of your openings moves, then you gonna be fairly disappointed.

[@ninjalacoon]

An important point to make clear, that was not mentioned, is that the experience loss of a mob at the lower levels, 10 and below, is really dramatic, but not so much as you level up. If you are level 7 and you fight a lvl 4 mob the amount of experience is heavily penalized even though you are only 3 lvls difference from the mob, however, if you are 3 lvls difference but perhaps instead you are lvl 26 and the mob is lvl 23 the difference in experience lost is not so massive. XP = (Base XP) * (1 - (Char Level - Mob Level)/ZD ) for lower lvl non grey mobs. The ZD score when you are lvl 7 is 5, which is really low, but when you get to 26 the score is 11. More than double. This makes that 60% xp loss become approx 27% loss. Still large but way less than the 60% at lvl 7.

[@Sanoskesagara]

So true, especially for anyone worrying about glancing blows. I've always found that I kill things much, much faster if I'm 1ish level above my target. The best xp/hour is just supported by killing lower level targets as a rogue.

[@CasualCreed]

@@Sanoskesagara Really? Should you aim at killing mobs 1 lvl lower or 2?

[@Sanoskesagara]

@@CasualCreed if youre trying to quest, this isn't always possible. If you're planning on grinding for any sort of time, the character level is a big factor. I'd much rather cruise through mobs that are a level lower than my rogue than slowly kill mobs 1 level higher. Basically it's because 40% of a rogues damage(can't recall if it's white damage, or all damage) we'll be glancing blows. Getting your weapon skill as close as you can to a mobs defense skill will dramatically increase the damage of those glancing blows. So if a mob is level 40, and your rogue is level 39, the mobs defense will be 200, and your weapon skill with be at most 195. You'll see many examples of just how good +5 weapon damage is throughout the game. It's why the human racial is so good, why edgemasters are worth hundreds of gold, and why several BiS weapons throughout raiding give weapon skill. By grinding on mobs higher level than you, you're giving up the most valuable stat to your dps.

[@CasualCreed]

@@Sanoskesagara Glancing blows do not affect crits (its miss, glancing, hit, crit. Right?) and dagger rogues have high crit on backstab. I personally kite with crip poison (step out of range when no energy), so most of my damage is from backstab. (I kite with crip to take less damage->less ooc time, seems good to me, not sure if it is) should I still at lvl 27 grind mobs 1 lvl lower? Is it still worth it grinding mobs 2 lvls lower? (st 3 lvls lower I recon we might want to consider respawn rates as well) Sorry for a will of text, but I will grind at 27 and knowing what lvl mobs to hit is nice :)

[@Sanoskesagara]

@@CasualCreed this is a cool conversation actually. You're right about the crits not glancing ever. Given your strat of moving in and out between backstabs, your white damage will be super low anyways. Sounds like this would negate the need to pay attention to mob level, and focus on finding the best possible grinding location. You could double check your idea with a damage meter pretty easily. Get the one that breaks down damage source so you can see just what percentage of your overall damage is coming from white hits.

[@nuggettisthecrankycalabres548]

"You might have to take some Ibuprofen if you do this spec" hehe... pure gold! Great vid man, very appreciative

[@Sarthris]

Hi Kargoz, Thanks for all the time you spend on your amazing work on each class. I'm watching your videos with interest since I'm wanna be prepared for WoW Classic. You really are a welcomed help for all of us.

[@HouseVachula]

Skipped most of the video because I all ready know everything he’s talking about. Was a nice little refresher.

[@Truppe4]

Ray Vach ok, glad you „all ready“ knew most of this stuff

[@HouseVachula]

@@Truppe4 Doesn't feel like you feel glad that I knew most of this stuff. It's actually common sense to know how to play a class you love. I wasn't sure if their was going to be anything useful I could pull from the video. Sadly their wasn't.

[@nadhirboudeli859]

25:51 "In the Name of the Light" is an Alliance only quest on the horde sword progression, it's "equivalent" to the horde's "Into the Scarlet Monastery" which is already there. otherwise thanks for the guide :D

[@deathnotehell1]

I recently started playing on a Burning Crusade server after trying current WoW and the game is so much more different and more RPG like, I'm really enjoying it. So using this as a guide for early levels too.

[@bbiggie97]

Damn you're pumpin these out. Hell ya

[@Vapir87]

Wiznips here, simply LOVE this guide.. SUPER helpful. Appreciate the time and attention to detail you put into these guides! You are the man!

[@ghstrdio]

Talent trees are sooooo much better than the garb we have now.

[@MoonPoxX]

How is getting a 1% dmg increase better than getting a completely new ability or passiv that actually tinkers with your gameplay to some degree?

[@misanthropiclusion]

@@MoonPoxX shhh let them believe in their fake choices delussion

[@igormunizguimaraes8226]

@@MoonPoxX easy...because you have the power of choice. You choose, level by level, how your character is going to be.

[@joshuaroe1402]

B iez It is funny that you think you have a choice in retail lol. In retail you can go twenty levels without a talent, new spell, or anything else that makes you feel stronger. Getting stronger is the whole point of leveling up in a mmorpg and Retail stomped that feeling out of existence. The mobs even level up with you. I have at least four viable talent builds on my warlock which is three more than any class in Retail but to you that is an “illusion “ of choice lol.

[@belalhaifa821]

15:09 ok gotta remember this. Anywhere else ain’t helping so I trust in you to help me!

[@Scorpion0308]

Are you going to update this guide and remove front stabbing since it wont be in Classic?

[@Aivansamahelvetti]

For those who are looking at this guide for Classic launch. Atleast at beta front stabbing has been fixed and the mobs cannot be bugged to stab from front.

[@testbravoyt3058]

Aivansamahelvetti Thank you

[@nastiahares2057]

High quality videos as always Kargoz! Thank you for the guides :)

[@shaunavayne1763]

Dude the first character I ever leveled was a human rogue when I was like 13. I still remember having Triprunner Dungarees and vendoring them for a green "of the wolf" set of pants because they had one more armor. Also I once vendored a Staff of Jordan because :O 3g!!!

[@AleXtreme83]

I'm happy my wife is playing with me, otherwise i would smell a divorce^^

[@tracingbpfreight6650]

that is so cringe

[@Aldi-lo9ic]

@@tracingbpfreight6650 bruh no, that is the way of a wow gamer

[@silasboyden1268]

@@Aldi-lo9ic No way you just said that lmfao

[@aeonxiv9867]

Wtf

[@countdread6467]

Couples who game together, stay together. I introduced my wife to wow mid panda. Been playing together ever since. 👊 bump

[@blobblab3020]

9:24 "Rogue specific tips" It says Deadly Poison but shows the picture or instant poison. I really love the indepth statistics and breakdown of the leveling process

[@PirateStory]

Really quality video, I just went 1-60 in classic wow while predominantly following this guide and just have to say it was an extremely misguiding and unhelpful guide. Went on icyveins around level 50 and switched everything up and my life became 100x easier. If your playing official classic servers don’t follow this guide! (And no front stabbing doesn’t work)

[@iamlevik]

Thanks man. Now I feel prepped up for the Classic launch on the 27th.

[@cookiefourteen]

Sword of serenity is an alliance only quest item but its in your horde sword progression as HIGHLY recommended...

[@ChristopherKaiJensen]

Shahreen Ahmed highly recommended to reroll alliance

[@Tarrimaster]

I'm busy putting up all the old school rogue PVP vids on my channel - got the first 7 Happyminti's up already. Viral and Grim are next! Great guide - am so amped for classic!

[@egorlike1324]

Really loving this series. Will there be another set of guides for character progression once you hit lvl60? Like builds for raiding and pvp, what gear to get etc? Another comment I guess is these guides are more focused on getting to lvl60 as fast as possible, hence the advice to get spirit gear and the builds. But for me I enjoy the process of it and worldPvP so I would spec differently, would probably get improved sprint and maybe improved kick. Stealth talent is also superb, have to get that pretty early on if you actually want to stealth around. Otherwise everyone will see you from a mile away (at least that was my experienceon some pservers)

[@ExcessCongruence]

that talent tree breakdown gave me such nostalgia..holy hell..I want the feeling I had playing back then, back..

[@cruros9084]

Rogues use Gouge + throw weapon to kite stuff, that is what I used on Northdale for some soloing of elite quests.

[@Cardan011]

Cruros you could equip bows in vanilla I actually had that bone bow from BWL hunters hated me 😂, you could easily kite with bow

[@FarP321]

The amount of value Kargoz and Tips out are bringing to the vanilla community is staggering.

[@omgheisniar]

I like the overall presentation of these guides. Well made!

[@bradvanbakel5781]

Anyone watching this today - Id suggest taking 2 points in indurance Asap until you get a mount, being able to use sprint that much more often just makes the whole thing feel like less of a chore. Also for combat swords murder is a waste of time, literally 20 more damage per 1000. Much better off filling out agression to increase the damage of your 2 most damaging attacks - sinster strike and eviscerate since all you will get from white attacks is miss miss dodge parry offhand miss. Slice n dice is also a waste of time when killing quest mobs, because it doesnt increase the amount of sinsiter strikes you can get, just how many white attacks you're going to do - and most of them miss. And you only get real added benefit if you spend 5 combo points on it but the majority of mobs you attack will die after 5 combo point finisher or close to and it will run out before you get to the next mob. Take something like improved eviscerate instead.

[@Nick-jb4xi]

No Mace progression? There's no talents to discourage you from using maces over swords until 30+, and there are some really good maces at low levels. Stinging Viper may be harder to get than the quest-drop Wingblade, but I'm pretty sure it's BIS until Outlaw Saber.

[@Nick-jb4xi]

The level requirements on some of the weapons is a 'bit' suspect. For example "Sword of the Hammerfall", you can get the quest at Lvl 30, but it requires you to kill a level 40 elite.... Maybe I'm nitpicking. I guess if you didn't list it that way, you'd have someone complain about that. However, you need higher level help to get that while it's still any good.

[@ef2038]

Nick mace build is vers nice for pvp with the 3second stun,

[@williambuttlicker6251]

Finally a rogue guide!!!! Thanks for the hard work man!

[@JesterJones]

why dual wield as a rogue? maybe because they can't wield 2h's?

[@danielskrivan6921]

Yeah I cringed when I saw that.

[@AstridCeleste96]

It's worth noting that if you don't have a good 2H as a Warrior and you have the option between 1H+Shield vs. DW you should choose Shield. But yeah, in a rogue guide it doesn't help deepen the understanding of anyone but the warrior mains.

[@JesterJones]

Therrion ' you should never equip your shield unless your grouping up or about to get opened on by a rogue

[@Slebonson]

Thank you for the refresher its been some time since I leveled from 1-60.

[@Labroidas]

I leveled a rogue from 1-60 on Kronos III using this guide. There are quite a lot of errors in this guide that make it pretty hard to understand at some points. 1) You can't reduce miss chance from 5% to 19%, how can you reduce something to a larger number? It should be that miss chance gets reduced from 19% with dual wield to 5% with 2h-weapons for warriors if you compare the two, as far as I see it. And it's not just about rage, it's about total damage from auto attacks in general. 2) In the general tips that you skipped it says "don't use deadly poison in PvP", but you show the icon of instant poison next to that tip, which is confusing. 3) You show a combat sword leveling spec that is only optimal if you don't expect nearly any world-PvP, and don't expect to play a whole lot of dungeons. It's confirmed in the beta that frontstabbing is not going to work, so that whole section is redundant now. It would have been nice to see different leveling-spec-variations instead, because there are quite a few, and even different speedlevelers have different preferences, it's not set in stone as with other classes. I love the guide otherwise, you did a great job and put a ton of work into it, but it needs updating! In general I would say that it would be nice of you to say in the beginning of the video that this is more of a speed-leveling guide rather than a general rogue-guide, so that newbies like I was don't assume that this is the only possible approach to leveling your character. You kind of have a hardcore-tunnelvision, and you need to make that clear at the beginning of the video, so that more casually oriented players who prefer to take their time acknowledge that.

[@skatekai]

Looks like no one has pointed this out: Don't spec lethality as combat swords when leveling! 5/5 lethality will increase your overall dmg by less than a percent. Calculation below. Lethality increases the *bonus* crit damage by your *sinister strike* by 30%, not the the total crit damage. Crits are calculated as *100% hit dmg + 100% bonus damage = 200% damage.* With 5/5 lethality this becomes *100% hit dmg + 130% bonus = 230% damage.* This is only a *15%* increase in SS *crit damage* compared to 0/5 lethality. In leveling greens with 5/5 malice SS crit chance is assumed to be *~20%* resulting the *15%* increased SS *crit damage* to avarage out as 3% increase in *overall SS dmg.* SS is only *~30%(?)* of your total damage which results in 5/5 lethality increasing your overall dmg by -less than a percent- ~0.9%. Which is kinda shit return on 5 talent points Instead go: *1/1 relentless strikes:* assuming total of 5 combo points worth of finishing moves per mob this will on average give you 25 energy/mob *1/2 imp Slice and dice -> 2/2:* Longer up time = less energy spent on refreshing it + more combo points to spend on evis *3/3 imp evis:* cuz ruthlessness is fucking shit for leveling This should add up to something like 20% more evis dmg and, depending on mob total health, energy for an extra SS. Which blows the dmg from lethality out of the water. Might as well add I'm not 100% about this and I know I assumed a lot of numbers, but tried to do it in favour of lethality. Would be awesome if some -loser nerd who pays for demos- one could confirm it. Source: www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=51132 TL;DR: Lethality is for backstabs and/or raiding. fuck you Edit: added additional curse words

[@michaelkennielsen1422]

Front stabbing isnt working on classic servers. I've tried it out extensively

[@michaelkennielsen1422]

@@nathanielapgar4284 Havent actually tried that. Damn. I'm assuming you mean stuff like being crit activating fury warrior talents right? I dont think it works but hey

[@fateoac3071]

Most educational video I’ve ever watched for classic. Thanks a million

[@kyuujinyetto6228]

15 days remaining, can't wait

[@MrCrawys]

15 days?hm.. you wrote this comment 2 days ago, which means it was 16 day, +15 days = 31 and classic comes out 27 august... WHY 15 DAYS?

[@peytonibarra8992]

Awesome guide! This will help me level my rogue when classic comes out. Thanks!

[@chrispratt3666]

Rogue is one of the few classes who can actually 1v1 hunters while leveling. That alone makes them worth playing!

[@linusnilsson78]

Depends on what lvl you both are. Once around lv 35 u wont stand a blody chance against a good hunter even IF you get to open on him and blowing your sprint.

[@vaedathlive1896]

@@linusnilsson78 whats the difference between a good hunter and a bad hunter tho

[@peterphile1337]

Awesome guide! Im gonna respec my rogue to the combat swords, 2nd time respecing after reading some garbage and confusing guides online

[@sinklar7946]

Please do druid next, I'd love to hear you talk about the potential of ferals at endgame vanilla :)

[@connorbarnes3661]

We're working on it right now b0ss

[@zenith_journey]

just look up shedo if u want to know feral

[@Jester-15]

gachiBASS

[@jolly6927]

*Potential of ferals at endgame* Yikes

[@magnus00125]

dps is still dps... u have to believe!

[@imnotlying494]

Another awesome video man!! Iv never played a rogue but I'm highly considering it in classic! Keep up the great work

[@someone-ji2zb]

Good guide. My only issue is that you are claiming this to be for classic wow and not private servers. Reason being is that 'front stabbing didn't work in vanilla. So no, front stabbing will not work with classic. Please stop treating this as some kind of possibility for official play. Honestly getting a little tiring seeing private server players making these suggestions. Same crap regarding /sit and proccing talents.. it was NOT possible to proc enrage/reckoning via /sit crits, and likewise wont be possible in classic.

[@keks7384]

actually frontstabbing always worked and it even works on retail to this day (although you don't have to strafe spam just positioning correctly works) during bfa used it while leveling myself, and yes I know you can backstab and shred from the front these days but you're able to get the 20% damage bonus from being behind as well if you do it right.

[@Command21z]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[@someone-ji2zb]

@Keks No, you absolutely cannot do this on retail today. This is a private server phenomenon and nothing more.

[@codeboy_henry]

He’s legit, just rushing out videos to be first to market. Theses videos are still good

[@KellyHays11]

Do you have any evidence to back up that these things didn't work on retail vanilla wow?

[@Jack-hz1ey]

You had me laughing out loud with the carpal tunnel warning

[@typicalzen6149]

Dude Kargoz I freakin love your vids man, just absolutely excellent to listen to while im playing TBC lol :D thank you man!

[@nathantaal5382]

Night elf rogue is also good for pvp because of shadowmeld gives them an extra rank of stealth so night elf is a good pick too+the high agi

[@Sanoskesagara]

Another addon I'd seriously consider a must for leveling as a rogue is a damage meter. Understanding exactly how to spend those combo points is made so much easier when you can compare dps for each target. There's really a lot of theory/random ideas you get while grinding, and seeing concrete evidence through a meter helps you iron our wrinkles. 1 or 2 point Slice and dice? Evi instead of Slice and dice? How much does my dps suffer on a target if I start out energy starved, perhaps from dumping energy to burst down my previous mob with evi, and does that means slice and dice is worth it if I predict my travel time from mob to mob is minimal?

[@semperfi4now]

Damage meter for the win!

[@Neero_90]

25:29 You can also buy a good green sword (Feral blade) for 25 silver from a vendor in the loch modan city :)

[@jagermaster1758]

these are the best guides on youtube, thank you Kargoz

[@PREPFORIT]

I have never been a Rogue. But Now I will. Ibuprofen for front shredding Important tip !

[@88Spint]

Ok it sounds like you are contradicting yourself when it comes to the "Slow main hand, fast off hand" rule. Main hand = Slow weapon (highest dmg u can find). This will directly influence the dmg of your abilities that only use the main hand for dmg calculations. Off hand = Fast weapons (fastest u can find). This due to more poison applications which increase your dps. Since they don't get used much for abilities. However here you say that Instant Poison and Deadly Poison work on a "Proc Per Minute" system and you claim that regardless of weapon speed you will get the same dps no matter the weapon speed. So then wouldn't it be better to just go for pure dmg on both weapons, thereby having higher white dmg, which could make for higher dps overall? I know there are other factors as I seem to remember something about shiv only using the offhand or something like that but even so, the dmg rotation you recommended does not use it. So... am I missing something? I get that with a faster offhand you do have a greater chance for that initial proc to come faster and I do not know the "ppm" limit (would like to tho) but is it really worth it compared to the higher white dmg? Lastly would you recommend keeping a faster offhand even if it's a dps drop due to that faster initial proc? This sounds like something someone has researched but no one mentions who/where/how so I'm curious. Great video as always! Much love!

[@robertrosario7609]

I think where he meant to go with this, is to prioritize slower higher damage weapon to be equipped in main-hand. As in while leveling, just equip the harder hitting weapon main hnd when possible since your weapons may be changing every few levels.

[@someonesnoone4439]

They always say use a slow weapon in main hand so your sinister strikes hit harder. The offhand speed doesnt really matter as the poison will get applied either way

[@stopendlesswar]

When using duel swords & due to the sword specialization 5of5 talented, wouldn't this be better due to 5% chance of an extra swing when doing damage with your sword x2(or almost 2 since off-hand doesn't hit as much as main hand) instead of a sword & a dagger? Would this be 5-10% chance of an extra swing vs 5% if one sword, one dagger is equipped?

[@shane2968]

Hi Kargoz. I appreciate all the work you have put in to doing this. Thank you very much, it's refreshed my memory after 15 years.. Anyways, 1 small part not on this video but on the link to your pictures(maybe it is in your video also) ... On the page labeled "Rogue specific tips" Where you have the tip 4 down, the icon is of Instant poison. Yet you're trying to let them know not to use the deadly poison in PvP because of the DoT effect of our control.. I see the icon is Instant poison. Myself I knew better, but I wonder if any carebears so to speak, would match that icon up and not be using instant poisons like they are suppose to. I would think having the deadly poison icon, since you're warning about deadly poison would be more appropriate. LMK your thoughts, thanks for reading. Again thanks again for all your hard work, I hope you are enjoying your journey through classic as much as I am. -Pandaman Bigglesworth PvP

[@cameronjones1973]

Thanks Kargoz LOVE your vids man ❤️

[@ns-tech1304]

Dude these guides are so good it is crazy. Grats on 25k btw. I sincerely hope your channel will explode.

[@tomtenarne]

Rogues are super good at grinding mobs. i got my highest xp/hour with grinding mobs in vanilla with my rogue, i cant remember the complete spec bu at lvl 30-40 ish i went with a ambush spec and if you grind the right mobs they will drop like flies. Sure its hard to "afk" grind but if you keep the focus up its super fast , only bad thing was getting from the grind spots to learn new ranks of psn and skills. oh and sell the shit from your bags =)

[@dfjiro]

Amazingly done rogue walkthrough. Kudos to you!

[@ItsWezzel]

The Dual wield rogue vs warriors is useless, Rogues dont have any other option than dual wielding.

[@calebdavis484]

yeah that was actually retarded even watching

[@Davidgopaint]

@@calebdavis484 knowing about a 19% hit reduction vs 5% by having 1 extra item in ur hand, is good information to know, makes u think about the Hit cap, also if ur deciding to play warrior it explains thats why people lvl with 2h

[@MolokoMotive]

actually u can skip learning dual wield and your miss rate will be almost nothing

[@tywilson3689]

@@MolokoMotive yeah but it's a terrible idea because you're missing out on a lot of poison procs

[@gazzam3172]

@@MolokoMotive you are joking,no?

[@owenduncan2868]

Your vids are so tranquil, I dont even play/ have never played vanilla and I still love your vids

[@nawe_13]

"I've been leveling a Feral Druid"... Druid guide is coming boys!

[@GoingRampant92]

The whole exp values thing is crazy! thanks for that.

[@LilItaly]

You’re a beast kargoz

[@k1mpman]

Holy shit I was looking at your channel like 2 days ago for this guide so I subbed for it. How neat! Goddamn I'm so hyped for classic man edit: will fronstabbing work on classic? I've heard from others that it was never doable in vanilla, I never played rogue so I don't know. Others say it wont work because of the new server architecture. I guess the only way to find out is to wait until classic hit

[@zauruswow]

Love the way u make this Vanilla guides Videos! Thank you !

[@noobiesnacks1636]

DUDE!! This guy has all the stuff I need for Classic....Rogue, Warrior and last but not least Hunter. Gj Kargoz, best channel for all my WOW Classic needs :)

[@Agent101g]

Just wanted to say thanks for the vid, it's great, helping me a lot in Classic.

[@monsiieurmathieu]

Dareakmarkymark is so cool, love his guides and streams. Nice guide thanks!

[@nikolazekovic5832]

frontstabing doesnt work in wow classic...

[@therealmg9049]

Yes it does, if it doesn't work for you then you're not doing it right.

[@braydengray490]

The Real MG no it doesn’t stop talking out of ur ass

[@klontic]

The Real MG no it doesn’t.

[@TheBrotipz]

@@therealmg9049 Can confirm. Its fixed.

[@arthusli]

Really nice guide, but frontstab doen't work in official?

[@iskander-6970]

Sadly frontstab is not working anymore on Classic :-(

[@yksol8649]

never did

[@Beerpowered]

Frontstab works great against hunters! Gotta love the Dead zone!

[@leog8792]

Only worked in private servers because of a bug

[@Agent101g]

I'm kinda glad it isn't working. Now I can go swords and not get carpal tunnel.

[@thirdperson2916]

A lot of people dont know you can macro pickpocket with your stealth initiating moves. This means its 0 effort and you can loot mobs twice after they die

[@GodOfWar187]

Going Night Elf Rogue in Classic. Don't really care about any disadvantages, I like the NE zones too much to care about that.

[@Xepent]

What about those zones? I find the travel times are brutal.

[@GodOfWar187]

Oh yeah, I remember all the running, especially in Darkshore. But it's the atmosphere and music that I like more than anything. Ashenvale is also my favorite Classic zone, for a number of reasons.

[@punkerguy805]

NE is BiS.

[@basillah7650]

Night elf rogue is good in pvp because shadowmeld gets you out of combat

[@punkerguy805]

@@basillah7650 not in classic, can't shadowmeld in combat

[@pepa7624]

I sure was expecting this! Not disappointed!

[@angerzh8782]

Not sure we can frontstab apart from private servers? Anyway, amazing vid as always

[@Ohushi]

Angerzh i remember doing it on a druid in vanilla

[@brianclark4713]

Fantastic Vid! Learned a lot of things unknown to me about the Rogue class and I lvl'd one to 60 in Vanilla. Currently lvling a druid myself going Feral. Having a blast!