Classical pianists learning jazz - struggles & mindset shifts

[@Stewartaj2010]

What made the difference for me was realizing I already knew this rhythm intuitively because it was in my DNA. I grew up with that rhythm in my house daily, but then when it was time to learn it I would resort to drills and scales and it sounded like an exercise. It wasn't until I just trusted my inner sage and played what I already know that I got "the sound."

[@davidsilos7241]

Agree 110% I’m learning so much from the developing fluency section and also enjoying it. My wife gets tired of hearing me talking about jazz progressions and what I’m learning so far 😂

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Thank you,Maestro and Guest.⭐🌹⭐🌹

[@TranquiloTrev]

Great conversation. If you grow up with the music it is in you.

[@catherinewhiley8063]

Very enlightening conversation :) Played classical piano for decades but couldn't improvise :( Began playing jazz at age 70 & hoping it's not too late. You're such an inspiration, Shan Verma!

[@JazzSkills]

It's not too late! Thank you so much and I wish you every success along your journey.

[@zvonimirtosic6171]

You don't need to play jazz to improvise, nor play classical in order not to improvise. It's all common misconception. Improvisation is a varied skill, and it may show itself even in how one develops the quality of tone, and a range of tonal expressions on a chosen instrument. Many forget that is the most important improvisation skill - not to worry about quantity or order of so many notes, but about their quality, and their sound.

[@donschneider7953]

...true...useful...thank you...

[@mer1red]

I am strongly convinced that the dichotomy between "classical" music (whatever that may mean) and jazz is due to the inferior educational system. For me learning classical music theory and jazz occurred in parallel. For jazz I had the immense luck to study from somebody who had also a deep insight in classical music and who succeeded to formulate jazz harmony in terms compatible with traditional harmony. There is one universal modern music theory that can encompass everything as styles: renaissance, baroque, atonality, bebop, modal jazz, etc. . There is no conflict but a happy marriage. Baroque musicians were also improvisors. The way I learned this allows me to examine critically every jazz master or guru. Eg while reading Leon Russell's work (one of the bebop theorists) I quickly understood that this is not what I wanted. In the same way I could appreciate the good things of Barry Harris but rejected some of his other idea's.

[@CTABPOGIN]

I'm making my way through thorough bass and partimento, and I think it's gonna help me since, as you said, all music uses similar principles. I recommend you, in case you don't know it already, to check En blanc et noir; superb material, very substantial.

[@mer1red]

@@CTABPOGIN Yes, partimenti are a real eye opener. Everybody who wants to learn music seriously should have at least a basic knowledge of them. For a bass player it allows to realize smooth bass lines for a given chord progression. En blanc et noir: I suppose you mean the KZbin channel, not the composition of Debussy? I know the existence of that channel, seems interesting but I haven't watched it in detail. There is so much information available these days. Actually, I feel satisfied with what I have learned from the past. Happy playing.

[@CTABPOGIN]

Recently I've found this classical improvisation channel, it's called En blanc et noir. I wonder what could come out of the clash of these two Impro perspectives. Something like Ted Greene maybe! I'd love to hear your take on it and on partimento in general, which is probably the area where the two worlds collide.

[@nathanielleclery3139]

If you’re gonna be playing this forever, what’s the rush in getting better quickly ? Love that thought. Very helpful as I try to get to the end of Developing Fluency.

[@JazzSkills]

The quickest way to get somewhere is slowly 🙂

[@casperleonardo3013]

Hi, can you talk about what Barry would say about left hand stuff while the write hand solos? This would be really helpful, thank you.

[@JazzSkills]

His words to me were "Just don't do nothin'. Hold a chord."

[@casperleonardo3013]

@@JazzSkills thank you, simple but helpful. I find myself overcomplicating things like this. I’ve watched a few videos where Barry would say something to the effect that he doesn’t believe in playing the left hand up an octave and too many players do that. I kind of understand what he means but not sure. Does he mean the left hand should have a certain range?

[@JazzSkills]

@@casperleonardo3013 That was more about playing shells in the left and full chords and movements in the right. People often put the whole chord in the left and then it needs to be higher to sound good.

[@casperleonardo3013]

@@JazzSkills thank you for the advice and the reply. I’m really enjoying your videos

[@frederic1000001]

I'm not really getting the point on this subject although I'm really trying to understand it. What is the difference between knowing the 251's and knowing the language ?

[@CTABPOGIN]

It's about knowing the 251's in a handful of keys, and understanding how composers use them to build songs. But it's the fingers who have to do the knowing and the understanding - and the talking too.

[@paulr494]

if you know maths or programming, then they are languages as well. You can learn some skills by cramming them, following templates etc but freedom comes from being able to express yourself by being a fluent speaker. So being immersed in the language, having it as second nature, dreaming in the language not translating it backwards and forwards to get there. I know I tried to “solve” /reverse engineer transcripts to get better and got nowhere. Actually having a framework to start to become a native speaker, relying on hands and ears more than brain means that I do now understand what is going on a lot of the time. The knowledge doesn’t hurt unless you let it get in the way of the actual skills required to “compose in real time”. Shan has given me a framework to focus on skills, start to speak the language and not skip out steps. Does require trust and patience but pretty soon brings results if you let yourself get out of the way!😂

[@CTABPOGIN]

How does one get into math in the way you mention? I'd love to find the entrance to it.

[@paulr494]

@@CTABPOGIN Hi, I didn’t like maths at school because it was mostly taught by wrote. For example learn this quadratic equation formula and then shove numbers it to it and then get maybe a couple of answers. No explanation of what you might use it for, no showing you can solve some simple ones by plotting graphs, which would show it’s a u shaped curve that could cut the x axis twice on the way up and down as it were. So I couldn’t get it. I then got into computing as an adult had to go back and learn maths again, did it with Open University in then UK and realised that if taught well I really enjoyed it. It is a language, it describes things, I’m pretty basic in my knowledge. Classical music notation is a graph. Its axis’s are pitch and time. So every time we read sheet music we are doing maths, yet if we are “good” readers we don’t really think about it it’s natural because it’s a skill. But the notation is a sketch of the music no matter how many much detail is given. Two players who don’t know the music might play it differently. It’s at best an overhead picture or map tile of the real place. When we play we hope to walk through the landscape and feel everything. It’s what we feel and think that brings it to life. There are no short cuts but there is avoiding the dead ends.