Ex-Professor Reveals Way to REALLY Learn Languages (according to science)

Dr Jeff McQuillan was a student of Dr Stephen Krashen and has written extensively about how we learn languages. Here he shares some of the research to help learners of second languages.
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About me:
I tried for about 10 years on and off to learn Chinese. Like most people who try to learn a language I got nowhere. I watched all the KZbin videos of polyglots and it felt like they had something I didn't. Eventually the penny dropped and I realised anyone really can learn a new language if they have the right approach. My goal is to help others achieve their aim of learning a foreign language

[@DAB-2023]

There is really excellent advice in this video. I'm a native English speaker. I am fluent (C2) in Italian and almost fluent (C1 on a good day, B2 on a bad one) in French. I learnt both languages as an adult. The following are really notes for myself. The idea in this video is to focus on acquisition and meaning. The essential "incremental" part comes when you encounter the same word in a variety of contexts. Inevitably you will come across a more unusual word and you will look it up then imediately forget it - even if you carefully write it down and try to memorise it. However, if you keep coming across a word in different contexts you are much more likely to remember it, and, for that, you need to concentrate on *acquisition*. The more you read and the more you listen, the more likely it is you will come across the same words in different contexts. (Note to self) Incremental acquisition is also key to being able to recognise what is common and what isn't. For example "pigro" and "indolente" both mean "lazy" in Italian, but you will almost never hear an Italian saying "indolente". Read and listen *a lot*, to understand which of these two Italian words (and there are of course others which mean "lazy") would be most appropriate to describe "lazy" in a given context. Get there by continually bashing your head against the wall (reading and listening, reading and listening, reading and listening). The word enters your brain in the end and, slowly but surely, the word "pigro" starts to sound right when you see a teenager lounging on a sofa, but "indolente" doesn't. I would add that everyone makes mistakes, even in their native language. It's absolutely fine to make mistakes in a foreign language - it's almost expected of you. If people want to speak to you they will, even if you don't conjugate your verbs properly. However, if you haven't done any practice with *acquistion* and don't understand anything people say to you, the conversation will end rather quickly. Comprehension is key. EDIT: to add to above, in case I gave the impression that you can learn a language by just reading and listening. You should have at least a basic idea of the grammar of your target language. You should understand the basic concepts of classes of words: nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, etc. This will make life *much* easier for you. Verbs are quite complex in French and Italian, and in many other languages too. At the very least, if you don't know what a verb is, then brush up on your grammar before trying to learn another language.

[@annaal7480]

Thank you for this, absolutely and in 100% agree.

[@pauld3327]

Very good summary. I wish I had known that when I was younger because I lost hundreds of hours learning vocabulary lists and doing grammar exercices instead of reading books and listening to audiobooks 😢

[@jahnacarlson3528]

Well said! Very good explanations and reminders. For us adult language learners the focus needs to be on communicating v. Being grammatically correct and being able to elegantly speak. We need to allow ourselves the grace and space to be beginners.

[@pmb6667]

Totally agree, as I've discovered the same thing! I'm learning German and learned many words and phrases in different contexts which helped me remember and use them too. I especially discovered this whenever I've been watching German TV -- listening to their newscasts, documentaries, talk shows, etc..

[@voice.of.reason]

But in English many of us were not taught English in verbs, nouns, adjectives any formal grammar really. We just know in English what sounds right or wrong, or in writing. I don't see how knowing what a verb is will help. I still have a mental block about that in English even at my old age

[@headkazzu-ye6ft]

Worth watching! Very informative, well as always! Thank God I saw your video again! Thank you! ❤

[@headinthemountains1666]

Matt.....thanks for this. As I "trudge along" in my language journey this definitely reinforces my motivation in the process. Please keep up the good work in videos like this. Muchas gracias😃

[@DmitryShpika]

Great interview, thank you!

[@susanhenry2081]

Thank you both for this interview. It is a spot on summary of all that I've experienced as a teacher and learner of languages (30 years). Best explanations of all the bits & pieces that make up language learning when all we want to do is find "the one" method that will give us the target language on a platter.

[@amarug]

Being frustrated about the lockdowns I started learning Japanese to entertain myself. Also I wanna prank my wife next week in Japan on holiday (she has no idea). I really just used videos on KZbin, free materials, podcasts etc. I am a math guy, dunno much about languages, but how hard can it be? Started by memorizing the 1000 most frequent words and all the basic grammar that makes the core structure of the language to build a scaffold that would help bootstrap the acquisition process. From then on I just listened to material, read stuff, met tandem partners and occasionally took a lesson on italki to get a "review" on my progress and pressure test my skills on difficult topics. I reached the point now that I understand almost everything even when people talk very unclearly and quickly and I can talk about most topics without too many issues, even things like politics and science. Let's see how my wife reacts next week when I dash out rapid Japanese somewhere in a small village in Gifu 😂

[@stevencarr4002]

'Started by memorizing the 1000 most frequent words ' Krashen and McQuillan say memorizing doesn't work.

[@amarug]

@@stevencarr4002 Thats why I spelled it out. I think he is wrong to some extend and the truth is never black and white. As a starting scaffold it works beautifully. I spent maybe one week memorizing and 2.5 years "acquiring". Looking at it like that I could indeed say "I only learned by acquisition and immersion etc" as it was such a tiny proportion of the time, but I argue that one week in the start was crucial. It's what made all the rest 100x faster. These researchers never really look at the full picture, from "zero to hero".

[@HoraryHellfire]

@@amarug Have you considered that you're the one ignoring the big picture? Not Krashen/Mcquillan? The "jumpstart" you got is something you felt, but there's nothing to indicate you acquired any faster because of it. For all we know, you wasted your time on one week memorizing and it STILL would have taken you 2.5 years acquiring Japanese without it.

[@Sendobren]

There's no evidence that doing acquisition/immersion learning from day1 is faster. I bet noone of you that criticize the method of memorising the first thousand words or so never learned an east asian language like Japanese.

[@amarug]

@@Sendobren Thanks for the backup! Doing pure immersion only from day one is a waste of time in my opinion, indeed with a language as foreign as Japanese or Chinese, you really DO need a bit of a foundation to be able to get anything out of immersion. Otherwise you might as well listen to whales singing 😅

[@albertoyac844]

Awesome video!!!! I haven't even finished watching it and I am already here commenting. Thanks for clearing up a concept (acquisition) that as a teacher I knew, but couldn't verbalize it satisfactorily.

[@coreychandler2016]

Fantastic interview. Rich with information.

[@Maatson_]

I’ve watch hundreds of people talk about there methods of learning a language and one says you must ready more others say you must be in survival mode, others say get a teacher or buy my program . But out of all them I’ve found one thing in comen. they never stoped practicing the language or gave up they either did a little at a time or some crammed for hours but in the end it always comes down to who keeps at it chipping away at the mountain.

[@catherine4385]

Little and often is key ro learning a language.

[@MHaas-ms2ds]

Maatson, this is 130% correct. You chip away at the mountain and that means staying motivated. Everyone WANTS to speak other languages, but few want to do the work or crumble after 30 days of working at it. I always tell people to HAVE A GOOD REASON and KNOW your reasons for learning. The is the more important thing to start with. Then, have fun with it: TV, travel, books, shooting the shit others, and slowly living with it. This is the best Cross-Training that will have you chipping large chunks "out of the mountain".

[@Maatson_]

@@MHaas-ms2ds your making some valid and good points. I’m 100 plus days into my journey of Spanish. I don’t have much motivation left , which is fine with me . I’m getting to a stage where I’m more disciplined I try to do some work on it at least 1 hr a day if I feel motivated I do more if not then I just keep it simple. No point in making my self feel guilty or sad for not doing more or forgetting what I learned . I just remind my self chip away at it a little at a time before you know it one year while have come and gone

[@MHaas-ms2ds]

@@Maatson_ With instrument and language learning everyone, almost everyone, fizzles out of energy for it. I speak 3 languages and self taught. But I always mixed into my learning as much a social aspect as possible. I admit I am a grammar whore and love KNOWING the rules. It give me something to practice when formulating sentences and it works for me. But!! Dive in and take cheap 1hr conversation classes. Just do it and struggle. The stress will MAKE you acquire. Then meet a girl or hang with the fellas and write essays about crazy funny subjects (mnemonics). Just play and have fun. The journey doesn't end and the sightseeing and experiences are always good.

[@Maatson_]

@@MHaas-ms2ds excel. I will

[@rashidah9307]

I appreciate you doing this interview, Matt! It was interesting to listen to. I do wish you two had explored how you get to the level where comprehensible input exists without memorizing any vocabulary or why you wouldn't just memorize some common words and phrases that will help you find more content that is 90-95% comprehensible. I also wish Dr. McQuillan had talked about memorization through systems like flashcards in a more balanced way. I used flashcards to help me learn my first 2,000 or so collocations in Levantine Arabic. But I didn't put individual words on them, but rather useful word chunks or sentences that exemplified a grammar point I wanted to remember. The cards also served as pronunciation practice for me, as I vocalized my answers and got lots of practice making sound combinations that were very new to me. I also didn't choose these words outside of a context. Most of my cards came from my iTalki lessons, where I had practiced expressing ideas with my tutor and gotten her feedback on the correct/most natural ways to express them. The spaced repetition of Anki flashcards also really helped me drill important vocab into my brain from a language with very few cognates from English; I really had to learn almost every single word. If someone is learning a language related to their native language (such as Spanish for a native English speaker), they will be able to learn new vocab with a lot less repetition and effort... The conversation also seemed based on the assumption that there is SO MUCH comprehensible input out there for every language. This is simply not the case. There is very little material written in Levantine Arabic for beginners because the version of Arabic that is used in articles, books, and even as subtitles in movies is Modern Standard Arabic, which is essentially a different (but related) language.

[@menethilarthas6356]

I believe this is one of the most helpful youtube video for language learners. What Dr Jeff McQuillan told is truly enlightening!

[@muneraomer8663]

Thank you for your time and advice!

[@lightluxor1]

This is how I did Italian and French. Though flash cards and grammar are supplemental. So take assimil to start, then read books and watch Netflix films without subtitles. Read ease stuff and build up. Watch interesting films, have fun. After 2 years, get one on one speaking training. Avoid grammar exercises. Have fun. You will be fluent.

[@RogerRamos1993]

Good method. I'd just rather watch movies and series with subtitles.

[@disobeats]

@@RogerRamos1993 often people end up reading the subtitles and dont take in the language. but ofc if it works for you then go ahead. But its very helpful if youre pausing the videoo when some interesting vocab comes up and writing it down

[@RogerRamos1993]

@@disobeats Reading the subtitles is taking in the language. I mean subtitles in the same language of the movie you're watching. I never write down an unknown word. When I keep hearing the same word, while not actually understanding it, it comes to point in which I feel compelled to look it up.

[@disobeats]

@@RogerRamos1993 ah yes yes i totally agree. I wasnt sure if you meant in the original language or in your own.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

I love grammar, it’s one of the most interesting things in the world

[@catherine4385]

I love grammar. It's like an intriguing puzzle.

[@alihorda]

Languages with weird and lots of exceptions in grammar be like : are you sure about that?

[@Nerubiru]

Me too!! I love studying grammar

[@kuki0912]

yea, until you learn thousands of them and sick with the exception and forgetting

[@vrmartin202]

If grammar is taught properly for the right reason it’s a huge help to acquisition. Could not be making the progress with Russian I am now without it.

[@josephwalsh7546]

Have you ever considered psychotherapy ?

[@1atWill]

This is so incredibly helpful. Thank you. New sub here.

[@alexvt418]

Great video thank you. I was a believer in flash cards and similar tools, but for some reason I was learning much more from short stories (especially if I had both audio and written), news, and other shows that interested me. This explains that. I will not stop beating myself up an keep going.

[@GenkoKenja]

“You should be focusing on acquisition” Well yes….but for certain languages there can be no hope of acquiring if there is no conscious learning first (or at least in parallel). What I know about Italian (being both an English and Spanish native) I learned from just exposure to the language. What I know about Japanese couldn’t have been possible without first learning the ins and outs of the language…I was exposing to it while at the same time making a conscious effort to learn (since I was learning vocabulary, Kanji and grammar at the same time as I was doing immersion)…same thing for Korean. Learning a language is not the same process for any language….there will always be things that work for one and not the other…for example, for Japanese, I was so obsessed from day 1 that I could immerse in native level content from like 2 months into learning because I would not mind looking at the same sentence for 20 minutes…fast forward 4 years later and I can now understand everything at a very high level almost without having to stop to look up things…In contrast, with Korean, I just cant do it…I can’t do immersion (even aimed at language learners) until I have the basics down because I get overwhelmed so quickly its not even funny…. So yes…I agree that acquisition is the way to learn, but sometimes there just can’t be any unconscious learning without some deliberate learning…sometimes they can happen at the same time, other times one has to happen before the other can take place

[@Ana-mj4dc]

Lol you and me have the same exact situation with Japanese and Korean ahahahahah

[@GenkoKenja]

@@baronmeduse whatever you say buddy. Not going to defend myself for something I’ve known my whole life, but to each their own 😉

[@MrLilwallace]

Agreed. I speak Swahili, and the entire structure is so different from Indo-European languages that I don't know you'd have learned with just gestures and the like. You'd be completely lost in understanding the structure.

[@trylingual5347]

​@@baronmeduse You can, double native is not fiction.

[@baronmeduse]

@@trylingual5347 It is fiction.

[@juliabobbin4165]

I’m absolutely loving these series of interviews, Matt! As a first time, second language learner (3 years with Italian) I’m a disciple of ‘Comprehensible Input’ as a means of acquiring language. I was lurking on a Duolingo for Italian language learners page and someone posted “Good news bad news... I finished Duolingo, still can't understand an Italian speaker”. Which is explicit language learning in a nutshell, really. I applaud anyone who learns a language, no matter what means they choose, because language learning is so beneficial in so many aspects of our lives! But getting to a point now where I can read a book or watch a video in Italian and understand almost of all of it, and reflect back on how not so many years ago I thought language learning was impossible unless you were a child in a bilingual household or ridiculously smart (I.e. not me) I can’t help but marvel at how effective and simple it is all thanks to comprehensible input ! It requires lots of input and lots of time with that input, but it works. And what a wonderful thing it is. Thanks again for a great video!

[@WaqarAhmad1.]

Vvvb

[@giuseppeagresta1425]

Buona fortuna con lo studio :) Spero mi perdonerai per la mia curiosità, ma come mai hai iniziato a imparare la lingua?

[@mmaxine1331]

Ha I learned English n German by talking to myself and my wall covered in posters, but of course I spent considerable time in listening, took me three summer holidays in my bedroom though

[@juliabobbin4165]

@@giuseppeagresta1425 Grazie! È sempre stata una cosa che ho voluto fare. Quindi, durante il lockdown, ho deciso di iniziare seriamente, e dopo un mese sono diventata ossessionata dalla cultura italiana e dalla bellezza della lingua. Ho origini italiane, quindi l'italiano sembrava la scelta giusta. I miei nonni paterni sono venuti in Australia 70 anni fa e parlavano solo il dialetto. Io non potevo parlare o capire l'italiano (o in realtà il dialetto) per nulla, ma sentivo comunque un legame con il paese dei miei nonni e la cultura che era rimasta cristallizzata nel piccolo paesino da cui provenivano 70 anni fa. Mi sentivo imbarazzata per non essere in grado di comunicare con i miei parenti. C'era sempre qualcosa che mancava nella mia vita. Ora che sto studiando la lingua, ho imparato molto di più sugli italiani in un modo meno superficiale e ciò ha portato tanta gioia inaspettata nella mia vita. So che la lingua farà parte della mia quotidianità per sempre.

[@ismaelhossen1032]

@@mmaxine1331 what is the best way to learn german someone says grammar is important very much learning german ,now i only focus on listening part youtube video?

[@gvsarmento]

Magnific video, awesome advice. It's all one need to hear. For advices like this you can understand how important materials we find on KZbin are so important. We need to thanks so much teachers like Matt that put this kind of interesting content disponible to us.

[@LeeRichardson808]

I love this. Our focus/attention is best spent on acquisition!

[@kingtau]

Use what works for you best! There is no one best way to learn a language!

[@ijansk]

That's correct. Learning is not an exact science. There is not specific right way to learn a language.

[@mijo3642]

@@ijansk No, learning is an exact science.. that is just an excuse for people who are too lazy

[@celticc9580]

KZbin commenter vs linguistics professional...

[@brenodiasmagalhaes9691]

i wanna thank you for this piece of gold

[@laco9412]

Yes It has changed my Life and nobody days that on youtube

[@BitCuration]

Agreed. This professor is by far giving the best insights about language learning. I've watched and into it for a long time. You'd have to ask this question and he presented the answer right in front of you, that nobody else has ever able to. Impressive.

[@lynpayne3667]

Thank you - loved this; very encouraging for me

[@olympiaquartz8597]

Amazing enlightening video

[@martynjames5963]

This makes perfect sense. I have been learning / teaching languages for a long time. I applied similar ideas to learning martial arts. And now, music - guitar. I love learning !

[@SimplyChinese]

I’m lucky that I found Dreaming Spanish. We need Dreaming for all languages.

[@user-kp1js6cb2s]

I don't sense the presence of language in my dreams at all...

[@SimplyChinese]

@@user-kp1js6cb2s more input is always the answer

[@brenodiasmagalhaes9691]

I'd love to follow a channel dreaming english haha

[@dolo6149]

​@@user-kp1js6cb2s it's a website to help you learn Spanish. Google dreaming Spanish and it will pop up.

[@Steven_Olson]

Comprehensible Japanese is one I like.

[@shawnmarko7131]

These videos help sort out a lot of things for us. We willing to spend the time and effort need good focus.

[@WanchartSaeku-ev4vd]

Thank you very much,this video make me eliminate the huge obstacle in English progression,from now on I will try acquiring instead of learning together with lessening my expectations

[@jackvieiraoficial]

Man, I absolutely LOVE Dr. Jeff McQuillan and Dr. Lucy Tse. I started listening to their podcast about 10 years ago, and it was the very first time I really improved my listening and speaking skills. They are the best, period! I don't have words to express how much they mean to me... I know this might sound like an awkward comment, but I had to say it!

[@jsloth0303]

haha same here bro. they are the best and the funniest

[@ILoveMaths07]

I've learnt languages the traditional way using grammar exercises, and it has worked splendidly for me.

[@mehmet.albyrk]

You must have learnt for sure but how accurate and fluent can you speak the languages you wrote I learn. Learning and using what you get as a skill is different from each other.

[@somayer557]

So useful. Thank you so much

[@dasimmyr9840]

Damn good! Thank you to both of you!!😀🤩

[@zedxspecturm4698]

and thats the issue really, finding comprehensible input that can engage me is just so hard.

[@MV-un3jt]

I've been using rosetta stone for Chinese. It's great. People say it's horrible, but they're wrong. Just pay attention and be patient

[@mydadletsmeshootatcats6754]

For me, this has also been a matter of lowering expectations. I have learned to switch my brain off and allow myself to be entertained by material that I would never consume in my native language. For example: kids cartoons, crappy sitcoms, video game commentary, whatever.

[@Shibby27ify]

if you look up "comprehensible Input (insert language)" or "natural" or "TPRS" and insert language you can find channels for the largest 10-15 languages. Not as fun as a show but more fun than an app

[@andrewrobinson2985]

A good TPRS video will make itself engaging no matter how boring the underlying concept is. They time themselves perfectly, repeat themselves so it feels like you're figuring something out every few seconds, and ask questions such that you can respond in complete sentences in minutes. Run a search to see if your language has that kind of thing

[@zedxspecturm4698]

@@andrewrobinson2985 first time I'm hearing the term "tprs" most people talk about broad concepts like "immersion" and "graded readers" without saying much substance. I even expected this video was going to be like that but its not. Looking TPRS up it looks really useful, thanks.

[@jeffreybarker357]

Low-key sent the link to this video to my group of friends taking a Spanish class at uni. They might not be thrilled since they’ve already paid for the semester…

[@RogerRamos1993]

If you can have language lessons, that's great. In most of Europe and USA, they are quite cheap. You still do most of the learning by yourself, but the lessons give you a nice sense of improvement, you get to talk to your classmates on a variety of topics, you do some homework, which you might not do on your own, you learn with the mistakes of others, they learn with yours, and so on, it's good as a starting point, an ice breaker, and your beginning in the new language is not alone. With time, as you improve more and more, only purely conversational lessons would make sense, and they'd help you to keep your speaking abilities.

[@rick-xt1gb]

I loved this video a lot, cause it sumerize everything you really need to learn a language, just comsume the language and your brain will figure out the rest, thank you so much 💖

[@annavass0221]

Thanks so much! I totally agree with Dr Stephen! I truly believe in the method of comprehensible input in all kind of a language! In my spanish learning is very useful!

[@FastEnglishLessons]

Language is about memory and sound/muscle memory (actually knowing the correct sounds and experimenting until you can make them, though sometimes even native speakers need speech intervention to get all the sounds correct or they are considered to have a speech impediment). You have to build a lot of memories and this takes a lot of time. What's funny is that this is treated as a "mystery" that needs to be investigated by university researchers when in reality every international school in the world solved this problem quite a long time ago and they all get consistent results. They throw students in a classroom with native speaker teachers and they are taught all the subjects in the target language for years. There are support classes for those who join at later ages to help them out, but this is how it works, and wealthy people spend a lot of money on this. Mostly this is done with English, but I have seen it done with Spanish in America and French in Canada. However, I suppose there is room for research on how to actually teach someone a language in two 30 minute sessions a week/quickly because most people don't want to invest the time in language learning, so the idea of the quick fix is being chased much like the idea of the fountain of youth here. Adults rarely learn languages well because adults are not placed in environments where languages are taught in a patient and normal way, nor do they have time to be in those environments long enough if they have other serious commitments, which they usually do.

[@hezarfen777]

Precisely because adults usually don't have the time for years of 12/24 immersion, memorizing a lot of vocabulary in the beginning is a shortcut (and a scaffold for implicit learning of even more words and idioms and getting used to the grammar), as is getting some grammar info in those languages that are so different in structure that it might take you too long to ever figure it out by yourself/learn it implicitly. Moving from English to French or Spanish, you don't need to consciously learn grammar, but when you learn Japanese, you do, because it would hold you back too much and for too long if you didn't.

[@FastEnglishLessons]

@@hezarfen777 Thanks for writing! True, but few people are actually willing to do this, and this is why we look for easier ways constantly even though we know the immersion method works, because we know it is resource heavy we look for other methods, and the method you mentioned works (though often produces less fluent speakers with unclear pronunciation), but it is monotonous/ boring and requires huge amounts of self motivation. I'd say while your mentioned method is low on the resource cost, it is highly likely to fail, whereas I can take a person with a very low level of motivation and place them in an international school and get them to speak the language. Researchers are looking for a "middle path" here and so far have come up with little. Perhaps we can say they have come up with ways to make the method you mentioned less painful/more interesting or engaging... But that's about it. It's almost like if you can't afford to own a horse but want to be great at horse riding. It can happen (mucking stables/paying out money to ride someone else's horses for a few hours), but is very unlikely to happen. I tutor English students right now, and I provide students with a "sample" of what it's like to be immersed for 1-3 hours a week usually. And students come back because they gain from this, but this is obviously going to be much slower than 30-40 hours a week. In fact, many students are trying to learn English to the point where they can place themselves in the position where they can work in English full time because they know, that's where the progress really starts to happen. So self study and using tutors is really about getting to that spot for a lot of them. I accept the fact that I'm part of the next best alternative to having grown up in an international school. In China there was the idea that getting English tutoring for your children a few hours a week was a sign of being middle class, and I can assume having your kid at an international school is a sign of upper middle class/upper class background. As a side note, I have been told by Chinese students that some jobs in China require a high English level even though no English is spoken at their work at all, based on this, it is my opinion that the high English level requirement could serve simply as a way to discriminate against someone who is not from a wealthier family... Back to the main point, sometimes I get students from international schools who haven't spoken English in a while and want to brush up on it/restore their confidence, however they quickly get up to speed and don't take lessons long. But having listened to them talking about their background, I feel like language learning is a bit of a rigged game and the most important part of this process is whether or not your parents invest the time/money in making it happen for you. Sure, there are exceptions to the rules, especially for people in border towns or with multilingual families, but this international school phenomenon seems the way of it by and large, at least for English. Also, these students at these schools KNOW they are different/special and are destined for greater things, because otherwise it's very odd to learn all your school subjects in a language that isn't normally spoken by people in your country in daily life. Most people searching on KZbin don't have this background, so we have all these self help/self study materials for them to look at and the teachers who say they have done it on their own using these methods are popular. However, I feel if students knew the truth about how most people end up being bilingual without family connections, it would be very discouraging. Once you know the truth, you quickly know why very few Americans speak a second language, for example. And the truth becomes even more apparent by looking at the few Americans (without family connections) who successfully speak Spanish, French, and Mandarin Chinese. These subjects are often focused on with the proper amount of attention to gain some fluency at elite schools only, schools that tend to have students study abroad with partnerships etc. Meeting an American who speaks Mandarin Chinese without family connections shocks people to such an extent that people have made KZbin careers out of such feats. Xiaomannyc for example, also look at his background, attending the private school, the University of Chicago, with a year long study abroad program in China... This doesn't seem to be a coincidence. I don't want to discourage anyone reading this, but if you fail to learn a language/ quit learning a language from self study, you are normal and not a failure/weak. It would be very unusual for you to learn a language successfully from self study. In my own experience, I only started learning Spanish successfully when I started paying Spanish tutors to help me. Even self study programs like Busuu (I used to work for them) include tutoring services along side the self study program. My advice, go straight to the tutors if you are serious about learning a language and are not an Olympic style super self motivated person. Beware of more and more expensive self study programs from language learning "gurus/masters." The missing ingredient is usually hardcore self discipline/motivation in all of their programs and they will often tell you this. For example, ask yourself if you are really going to consistently long term review an Anki deck/flash cards in your free time? I reckon maybe 1/1,000 people will do this. Is it possible, yes! But, it's also possible to win 10,000 dollars on a 10 dollar scratch off ticket. Always think about what possible means here.

[@christianleconte5466]

Hi there In your first sentence you have an practically Amazing insight no one talks about anywhere: Muscle memory: In French and latin and greek based languages ,there is no word for language , it's called tongue as in english mother tongue. Maybe ,just maybe , they understood that oral language is a muscular activity ( the tongue contains 17 muscles What about the inside ear : it' s full of physical tools like eardrum anvil , cochlea (snails shell ) , outside ear looks like a loudspeaker , vibrating hairs. Just imagine how powefull your insight of 'musculary memory ' really is . Thank's for that nugget , I'll bé grratefull to pass it on. Christian

[@todesque]

The most important part of this interview comes right at the very end. Adults must learn to be patient. Certainly in the West, adults are in a rush. Language acquisition, however, is a tortoise vs. hare situation. Slow and steady wins the race. I saw an ad headline many many years ago which read: GET RICH SLOW. Really grabbed my attention and stuck with me. Same could be said of language acquisition: LEARN RUSSIAN SLOW. Or LEARN JAPANESE SLOW. Give the brain oceans and oceans of content. Oceans. Your brain will figure it out in time and learn to swim. The only thing we as adults need to do is (a) show up everyday and (b) find enjoyable content that's at our level, or very slightly above our level. Then give the process TIME.

[@Delta66-jz1vl]

Very interesting points, thank you

[@paulwalther5237]

It’s great to have an experienced educator like Dr Jeff McQuillan talk about this topic. I have studied several languages. I think you’re simply going to get several opinions on this if you ask several people. I find there’s a benefit from studying grammar so that I can edit myself. I might just say the sentence using my subconscious knowledge but reflect back on it later using my grammar knowledge and if it doesn’t match up I can go double check to see if I’m saying it wrong (probably I am) and try to fix my bad habits. And especially when reading, knowing the grammar helps me understand complex sentences. It’s very helpful. Obviously you cant skip acquisition just studying textbooks or grammar and vocabulary and expect to be able speak naturally. You need to go read, listen, speak lots and lots so that it’s just habit and you don’t think about it. But I think I’ll try to prioritize acquired knowledge over learned knowledge. It’s hard to find the right balance. I don’t think 100% acquired knowledge is the sweet spot for me though.

[@modalmixture]

Krashen has been saying this stuff for decades now, and my own experience with comprehensible input tells me that it’s extremely effective. But I totally disagree about grammar. Adults’ brains are not nearly as plastic as young children, so the learning rate is slower, and the amount of input needed to acquire a language is much, much higher. Learning the grammar is an excellent way to speed up the acquisition process by helping your brain notice the salient features in the input and extrapolate it to new situations when the time comes for output. Sometimes I feel that there’s a bit of a straw man here - of course it’s not enough to just read a grammar book, of course you have to practice the grammar copiously after you study it, just as a musician has to acquire the muscle memory after she learns the theory.

[@beirne]

Agreed. There's no reason not to learn the rules for the easy parts of grammar. Gender, present tense, word order, etc. depending on what's easy for the language. It saves a lot of time.

[@yaketythack]

MY contention about adult learning is all ego based. The longer you live doing familiar things correctly the less apt you are to allow chances of failures when trying new things. This wall inhibits people all over and everywhere in their lives. Many of us are immediately shut down when asked to do a new job task at a place we have done the same work for years. Let your ego go, and the joy will flow.

[@Hexanitrobenzene]

​@@yaketythack "Let your ego go..." Right. That takes 30 years of meditation practice...

[@martin-b-b]

About the amount of input needed - I wondered about this recently. If we were given 3-4 years to do _nothing_ just being fed and taken care of while people talk to us in a language to learn, as adults, would we not acquire that language fully? So are we not just missing the point on the sheer hours a baby/toddler is exposed to language? Like how many thousands of hours is that. I thought about it when I was thinking of learning by immersing. Then I realized, okay, but can I be immersed for tens of hours per week, someone talking to me on 'my level'? So it might be that adult learning is actually more efficient after all? I wondered. Now I will need to research this.

[@Ponkelina]

@@martin-b-b It's about frequent repetition for babies and children - they understand a lot as babies its just the brain is learning to speak it later on. Adult language learners need to do frequent repetition. Soap operas, Rom Coms, radio all use the same 500 words repetitively.

[@bdcochran01]

1. A relative came at age 18 from rural Sicily. A 5 year old walked him around town for days on end. He speaks perfect English. A girlfriend came from France. She watched I Love Lucy reruns. Nearly perfect English. Worked international cargo for a Mexican airline. Speaks perfect Spanish. 2. One day, a retired specialist in linguistics came and listened to a class of adult French speakers. He wanted to try pronunciation. He did not speak French, never had a class. He repeated perfectly whatever was said. You could swear he was a native French speaker. He had no idea what he was repeating. 3. Find a topic of interest. Find a movie in a language of your choice. Watch it. You will associate the body language and the situation with the spoken language.

[@yoahanna220]

💯Using the language in everyday life situations like the ones you mentioned above is best! You will remember more and learn much faster!

[@nomansikder1941]

Thank you so much! 👍

[@noneedtoknow150]

Jeff is my guru. I've listened to all of his ESL Podcast episodes.

[@Christoph2P]

Really true! Learning languages through vocabulary and grammar is like learning to walk with crutches. It will never be perfect and will not work in practice to master a language fluently

[@olaf2627]

You have to start somewhere though. I have studied languages throught both intuitive methods like assimil and more old fashioned ways of studying vocabulary + grammar and then reading. I end up preferring the old fashioned methods, especially for synthetic languages like ancient greek. It's just frustrating to practice something you haven't first learned to understand. When you learn words and grammar.first and then practice, it is just easier. What people get wrong, is they mistake knowledge acquisition for learning to use the language, so they think: How am I getting this wrong if I know the rule? Vocabulary and grammar are an essential, but not sufficient part of learning a language. And taking time apart just to focus on grammar and words without context is just more efficient, is my experience

[@annahassid1697]

@@olaf2627 I agree with you. Just listening or watching/listening to a new language (e.g., Pimsleur - just oral, no reading/grammar) seems like a very slow way to learn a language. Especially in the beginning, everything is incomprehensible. There is no ‘comprehensible input.’ Eventually, you might get the patterns, but some grammar/vocabulary just smooths the way. This is especially true if you’re learning a language with a different alphabet and grammar than your native language - or some other language you know well.

[@HoraryHellfire]

@@olaf2627 You're implying that one has to "start somewhere" and by "starting somewhere" that means through grammar and study. And the answer is conclusively: No, you do not need to start with learning grammar just because you're new to a language. There does exist input for absolute beginners to understand even without knowing any words. Comprehensible Input is to understand what a word means _before_ you know it. By the way, Assimil isn't that "intuitive". Yeah, it's good that it gives you a lot of native input, but that's about it. It relies on translation to make the input comprehensible, and the listening itself isn't that comprehensible for a beginner without accompanying videos.

[@olaf2627]

@@HoraryHellfire The original commenter made a comparison with crutches. But if you break your legs as an adult and have to learn how to walk again, you will use crutches. Learning languages is just not the same for adults as it is for children. So yes, I do think adult language learning is made easier with grammar. I have enough personal experience to be able to say that it works for me. You still need a ton of practice anyway, but yes the first steps are easier with the crutches of grammar. I have used pimsleur as well, not just assimil, and it went super slow, I invested for more time for a smaller effect than I got by simply learning words

[@philipdavis7521]

Fascinating interview. I'm particularly interested in what he had to say about Anki as even lots of input oriented sources (such as Matt v. Japan and Refold) are very pro-Anki. The problem of course is getting the 'right' input for most languages. Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago in the Guardian there was a lovely article written by a Chinese woman living in Germany about her problems with learning German. There were over 1000 comments under it - I didn't read them all, but in searching through nearly every single one (most by people writing about their own L2 struggles) was focused on traditional skill based learning or output learning (the usual 'oh, I just threw myself in and started talking' advice). Not one single person mentioned the importance of input or the issues with 'learning' or early output. Its both fascinating and depressing that the simple evidence backed arguments of people like Krashen have failed to penetrate the vast lingo-educational complex. I guess that will continue until someone works out a way to make lots of money from it.

[@mydadletsmeshootatcats6754]

It's incredible to me how we have gotten so many things wrong in society, and how long it takes for these collective assumptions to be corrected. Language learning is just one of them. I think you hit the nail on the head...there is no money to be made from comprehensible input but there is boatloads of money in traditional education. So most of language academia and industry will resist comprehensible input since they (correctly) perceive it as an existential threat.

[@SimplyChinese]

I’m a Chinese immigrant myself living in Canada. I’ve seen a lot of my fellow Chinese who came here and continued to immerse in Chinese (thanks to the internet) instead of English. As a result, their English won’t improve much after years living here. In the meantime, government is throwing money into all kinds of English classes, LINC (Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada), ESL (English As a Second Language), you name it, to no avail.

[@SimplyChinese]

@@mydadletsmeshootatcats6754 yup! There’s less money to be made in CI (Dreaming Spanish might be one of the few good examples). At the same time, we see guys like Ikenna raising (scamming) $1.2 million to build yet another gamified app for language learning.

[@philipdavis7521]

@@SimplyChinese I've seen exactly that myself with some Chinese friends here in Ireland. My friend looks after some school kids from Shanghai here and some have terrible English despite living here for several years - its easy to see why when you hang out with them - they have their heads all the time in Chinese social media. The ones who just engage with local media (tv/internet) are far more confident in English. Its a pity, because they will suffer socially and academically in the longer term.

[@ericbwertz]

@@mydadletsmeshootatcats6754 I think the problem with being able to make money from producing CI is because the content has to have broad interest, otherwise it's become boring and tedious pretty quickly. This is the problem that I have with most content for young children -- it simply isn't interesting to me as an adult. Adults have so much variance in their interests that it's hard to appeal to enough people to justify the production investment. "Traditional education" only pays because almost all of its consumers are a captive audience. If it's the required price of admission to something else, then you're stuck.

[@kotby3066]

I really love Dr: Jef

[@frederiquecouture3924]

I am grateful on your communicating skill as an interpreter of focus. It rings true.

[@Steven_Olson]

Just be careful - like the professor states, Comprehensible Input needs to be mostly comprehensible. There are a lot of videos that claim to be but don't do anything besides talk. That may be comprehensible to an advanced learner, but for a beginner it's almost useless. Now, subtitles can help with that, but it's not as effective as if you don't need them. A lot of comprehensible input people are against subtitles altogether, but I find they really help keep my interest sometimes.

[@lindenh2014]

I've come across that with Mandarin Chinese. The video claims to be comprehensible input, but whilst the person is talking they are often giving only vague clues as to what they are talking about, or no clue at all. And when they do give a clue, it can often be interpreted a couple of different ways. It's not comprehensible input to those that need it to be.

[@EnglishwithJoe]

Jeff has a blog where he explicitly teaches vocabulary yet here he is saying that method is a waste of time ?!?!?

[@EDP2500]

You need input to produce output, right?

[@HoraryHellfire]

Jeff is also a grammarian. He's allowed to believe it's a waste of time for true proficiency while also teaching vocabulary or grammar explicitly because... he loves grammar and vocabulary. Did you know the creator of "The Input Hypothesis", Stephen Krashen, loves grammar? That doesn't change anything. Their research indicates it's not effective for acquiring the language.

[@zemedkunmersha2103]

Wow! It is lovely advice for those who want to learn a new language.

[@SSSS-ss2pg]

Thanks, this was great. It is very helpful to also add knowledge from the Cognitive Psychology research field, being experts in human learning, cognition, development and behaviour

[@vesimitta]

Great video. But, there are other professors who have given different advice, aren't there? I was just browsing Paul Nation's ebook 'What do you need to know to learn a foreign language', where he advocates memorizing vocabulary and even studying some grammar (in addition to other things). Apparently, it's all backed by a lot of research, too.

[@admasnd]

As I understand it, there are multiple intellectual camps in this line of research and both have bodies of papers that support their own position. I don’t know if one faction has conclusively “won” over the other. It seems that the vocab/grammar camp is still dominant in schools and the immersion camp is dominant on the internet.

[@WriterScience]

Paul Nation is great. He doesn’t disagree with the approach taught here, but he shows that comprehensible input isn’t the whole story. Ultimately he advocates an approach called the 4 strands, which offers a balance of opportunities to practice meaning-focused (ie compressible) input, meaning-focused output (ie communicative events, without regard to correctness), language focused learning (ie deliberate study of vocab and grammar), and fluency

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

@@admasnd Just because there's an alternative to traditional language doesn't mean it's some infallible method. It's what I like to call the DeFacto well-wishing program of what you want to hear vs the real give and take of true learning. Everything can't be fun, even fun can turn into boring and repetitive, you can and will plateau with just about every avenue you take. You learn the most in the beginning and it takes more brain power to compile the information as you go up in levels. There's' too assumptions of memorizing vocab and grammar being bad, and acquisition, ci and immersion being the only way. Just like this loaded statement, "learn with context," yeah sometimes, because you can't always have the right answer even with context. The acquisition, ci and immersion camps have turned everything into just as dogmatic practice as traditional school-based methods. Melding things and knowing you can delve into a lot of things to keep learning is better than holding everything to steadfast rules. Everything in moderation even moderation. Playing the drinking game of learn like a child, natural way, context, ci, acquisition and immersion and whatever else tends to leave as many gaping holes as everything else. Do everything sometimes, sometimes on a large scale sometimes on a small scale.

[@jasonjames6870]

Paul nation has previously stated his own failure in learning languages. I know what this video is saying is true because it's how I've learnt languages.

[@bentrayford6132]

@@jasonjames6870 Unfortunately that's not how scientific research works. You've fallen into the same trap that Stephen Krashen has.

[@Shibby27ify]

I went through a hybrid approach of study and CI/immersion for my Spanish and it worked. Refold is a good expression of this. I see a lot of people's left brains throwing a fit about trusting unconscious learning and trusting process. Our modern left brained and supracortical world and education system teaches us the effortful conscious study is the only way to learn anything. It's like trying to control knowledge. People have a hard time with process, a slow gradual emergence that one does not have direct control over. In a more process learning method, feedback or proof that something works comes organically when one sees their skills improve over time. The supracortical/left brained conscious self like wants to have the end result without the struggle of the experiential part. It's just not how any learning really works. Or at least the vast majority of it.

[@Shibby27ify]

One problem I have is that this is the classic ALG type of method. Radical comprehensible input. When I entered the refold path years ago I learned that specific vocab and sentence study accelerates acquisition, not by memorization but by priming your noticing function, so you are more apt to notice new words and grammar structures in context, then they become preconscious memory. If one does intensive study in the service of immersion, it's priming noticing, not memorizing. Learning in a vacuum without consuming the real language does not work. They're correct on that point but they take it to far in a contrarian place against study.

[@andrewrobinson2985]

@@Shibby27ify The ALG school of thought actually intentionally avoids this for a reason, because when they were forming their methods, they found that students who were told to "notice" the language and try to decode it and figure out the pieces like a puzzle did significantly worse than those who were told to focus only on figuring out the message. Priming for noticing is actually harmful if noticing a word distracts you from consuming the message (or if the material is too hard that you can only notice words and not confidently take in the overall meaning, then that is wasteful because it's just not comprehensible input).

[@stevencarr4002]

@@andrewrobinson2985 What is the best way to check if input really is I+1 input for yourself without ever noticing if the input does or does not contain new things?

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

@@Shibby27ify Good response, the ALG method failed people because every aspect has to be controlled meaning even with the best conditions it's likely not to work as advertised. Immersion and listening are not enough, and acquisition is immeasurable. People love to act like there's just only one way to learn languages and comprehensible input/immersion is the only true way. Nonsense it's just something to play with time to time in your learning as well as learning studying vocab and grammar. You mix lengths of time and percentages with each thing and use moderation as well. As well as deviating from moderation sometimes.

[@Shibby27ify]

@@orlandocarrasquillo4481 Although I respect the ALG and radical CI methods, I've always wanted to try a pure ALG method some day as an experiment, and I'm totally in CI and immersion learning camps and skeptical of standard learning, of which completely failed my langauage learning dreams in the past, some people purporting these methods take a contrarian point to the point of dogma. Lamont from "Days and Words" said this how counter culture or counter ways can become their own dogma. For example, I'm into weight training and as a contrarian myself, I used to practice something called HIT or high intensity training. And although I generally use a lot if it's ideas it's a camp of telling anyone that doesn't workout with only one set to absolute failure is wrong and dumb and cherry pick science to support their dogma. When maybe there's still some truth to the standard ways of weight training by your way does bring something new and innovative to the table. This is why I love Refold. It's mostly a CI/ALG/immersion method but does allow for study for the purposes of immersion.

[@MrDidaxi]

Forgot: the elaboration on the “stagnant vocabulary scourge” was golden.👌🏻

[@noneedtoknow150]

People've always told me "the more I talk to you the more I understand you".

[@beirne]

I have tried comprehensible input for Polish and found that new vocabulary does not stick unless I made flashcards, and grammar did not stick until I started making flashcards based on exercises from grammar books. I enjoy listening and reading and I get better at it by doing it, but it doesn't help me on the production end at all.

[@fransmith3255]

It might seem that way as a very early absolute beginner, but I suspect that by the time you get past that stage heading towards intermediate where you start to understand some real conversation, you'll have long since changed that opinion drastically... 🙂 In my experience, flash cards can have a usefulness if and ONLY if you have a firm real life context for every flashcard word - it should either come from a story that you know well or (and much better, actually) from a real life situation or person or thing that you attribute it to. If it doesn't, you'll be learning that card over and over and over again, without ever really acquiring it. I started like that - just learning words from text books, and I too, for a while, thought flashcards were working. It didn't work, and it's only after the acquisition really does start to work that you understand deeply why it didn't work before when you thought it was working - because you were only learning word meanings, not acquiring it to use. I used flashcards (Anki wrongly for years learning Korean before I realised). I still use flashcards, but I use them to remind me of words I have already acquired, NOT to learn them. If you've acquired the words, you can go through hundreds flashcards in half and hour and still feel mentally brain fresh. If you haven't acquired them, you're brain will fry after about 50 words in about half an hour. Learning is a LOT harder than acquiring, but acquiring is a very slow boil - like watching an Olympic swimming pool fill via a thin hose - it seems fast at first watching the first water spurt, but fills VERY slowly. One of the most important traits you need for language acquisition is patience!! The thing that makes learning seem faster than acquisition is that it seems easier initially (ONLY initially) and you can see the list of words you have 'learned' and you feel accomplished. Acquisition is slooooow, and happens when you aren't watching. The guy in this video and Krashen - look him up because he's saying exactly the same thing and his books and research is freely available on the internet - are correct. You can also search for him on KZbin. Another person you might look up is Steve Kaufmann - a very experienced language learner who has learned 20 languages - including most of the difficult ones. He has great advice.

[@beirne]

@@fransmith3255 I'm at the intermediate stage and it still doesn't work. I've tried it again for Polish the last few months and am going back to creating flashcards. Making flashcards is a pain but they work.

[@beirne]

@@fransmith3255 My vocabulary flashcards are mostly within sentences, so I get context. If it's a concrete noun that I can use a picture for I just do that without the sentence. And yes, it would be wonderful if I could acquire the words first, but that's easier said than done. For example, I just finished a conversation session in Polish with my teacher. I got these new words, among others: bruised rib, sprained ankle, eclipse, in the back, golf course, related, and diploma. There's nothing I can read or listen to that will have all those words. If I don't do something most of them will be gone for good. I'll recognize them fine but won't be able to produce them again, except for maybe diploma (dyplom). During the discussion I had occasion to use a word from my flashcards, the word for "injury". It's not a common word but I knew that I had learned it. I got the last letter wrong and got corrected (I said "uranium" instead of "injury"). Not a good testimonial for flashcards, but having done it in flashcards gave me some context and now it will stick better. If I hadn't made a flashcard for it I would have nothing. I have a pretty high tolerance for flashcards. Today I had 107 vocabulary cards. More than I'd like but doable. I've seen Krashen and Kaufmann around for years. I would really like their methods to work for me but they just don't.

[@chrolka6255]

That's interesting because Polish is so complicated that I wouldn't even know how to go about it if I wanted to learn grammar intentionally. For Polish I would just stick to comprehensible input + learning fixed phrases by heart. English is much easier when it comes to grammar. It's almost mathematical. Anyway, powodzenia! Mam nadzieję, że się nie zrazisz, chociaż moim zdaniem nauka języka polskiego ma mało sensu, chyba że chcesz rozmawiać z członkiem rodziny, który nie mówi po angielsku.

[@fransmith3255]

@@chrolka6255 English is almost mathematical? What's your mother tongue?

[@isolateddemon9438]

I HAVE BEEN AN EFL TEACHER FOR 20 YEARS.AT UNIVERSITY I USED TO TAKE PART IN DEBATES ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF GRAMMAR.NOWADAYS, MY CONCLUSION IS:IT DOES NOT REALLY MATTER THE APPROACH BEING USED IF THE LEARNER IS NOT WILLING TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS.

[@MrLilwallace]

There's a button on the left side of your keyboard that says "Caps Lock." Please press that button now.

[@rashidah9307]

True. People must take ownership for their own learning. Nobody else can do the work for them. But I think sometimes when people sign up for classes, especially group classes, they expect the teacher to do most of the work and they take more of a passive role in the process.

[@unclejoe7958]

Yes, I’m a firm believer in working only as hard as the students work. That said , it’s difficult to apply that model if you’re teaching a class of 50 students.

[@TheStrataminor]

@@MrLilwallace haha...exactly my thoughts...lol

[@TobiasAshleyBarker]

​@@MrLilwallacearse😂

[@han_ane9763]

Amazing video I agree with him I'm best example of what he said I'm from Morocco and I learned English through watching and listening only thanks ❤️😊

[@carolinewambua7777]

I recently moved to France with my five year old son and he is learning french faster than me by far. This video has made me understand why! He's learning through acquisition while I'm making so much conscious effort to learn the language! In less than three months he has such a wide range of vocabulary it's incredible! I'm so glad to have found this interview here. Thanks❤

[@stevencarr4002]

Does your son go to a French speaking school and play with French speaking friends? Children learn their native language by being exposed to about 10 to 20 million words by the time they are aged 5. Have you even got as far as being exposed to 1 million words of French yet? ' He's learning through acquisition....' The video makes clear that you only learn by acquisition when you already understand 90% to 95% of the words you get. Then it is 'comprehensible input'. Did your son already understand 90% to 95% of the French he was hearing? If he didn't, then he is not learning through acquisition, at least according to the ex-Professor.

[@johnjsullivan1]

He doesn't seem to understand gender in Spanish. "Esto es mi mano. La mano mío. Esto es otro mano" is incorrect. It should be: "Esta es mi mano. La mano mía. Esta es otra mano." He may be demonstrating the flaw in his method - it’s hard to speak correctly without studying grammar.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

Can you explain the difference between "Esto es otro mano" & Esta es otra mano?

[@renatomirandadealcantara6259]

I am a Portuguese Native speaker, and as a English and Chinese learner, I can totally agree with Jeff! Actually Dr Jeff´s podcast helped me learning English! Greetings from Brazil.

[@user-tq3zd7vi6h]

With exeption to what you said, because I was determined & inspired when I got invited to Italy. I bought a text book a month prior, studied halfway & crammed before I had to leave but able to conjugate many verbs, and able to engage in a conversation.

[@coolbrotherf127]

I mostly agree, but there are a few practical issues with the "95% comprehensible input" advice. That "perfect input" just doesn't exist for everyone at all levels on their language learning journey. The best strategy I've come across to bridge that gap between incomprehensible to compensable input is to use the "n+1" approach to make spaces repetition sentence cards from native level material. It can be done by hand, but I use the Migaku plug-in for Japanese specifically to automatically analyze subtitles and text files/website pages for good sentences to aquire words from. That way, I can use native level material I only comprehend some of, but still aquire words the same way I would with 95% comprehension. I would also say that not all words have to be aquired from input to fully understand them. I learned what the Japanese words like 曲 or 誘う meant from from anki card long before I had seen it in input material. Simple nouns and verbs can be learned with more traditional methods as their meaning is not as dependent on context. For brand new beginners taking time to learning basic vocabulary before starting to learn from acquisition makes the process feel a bit less overwhelming.

[@YogaBlissDance]

I think languages like Chinese, Korean and Arabic need a different approach yes...or at least combo approach.

[@coolbrotherf127]

@@YogaBlissDance Yeah, learning languages like Japanese or Chinese need a bit more dedicated study to learn. The Chinese characters used in both languages are pretty difficult to "just acquire" even for native speakers. With no obvious pronunciation guide, they require the reader to already be entirely familiar with each character to understand each word. Schools spend a lot of time teaching children how to read and write them. Adults can learn them faster than children, but it's still going to take a lot of dedication.

[@joebonds3072]

His "answer" to acquiring is SUPER vague.

[@admasnd]

I think he gave concrete answers for approach in terms of using visuals to get across meaning but what’s frustrating about this advice in my opinion is that it doesn’t scale beyond beginner material and usually is reliant on having a teacher. I’m just at 7:32 so I hope there would be some other methods discussed that rely on native materials and are more usable in a self study context.

[@andrewrobinson2985]

It's not that it's vague, it's just that it's simple. Find something in your target language that you can understand, and then understand it, and repeat until fluent.

[@RandomNameName448]

​​​ Thats extremely vague... Whats the difference between doing that and a traditional language course? Whats the difference between aquiring and learning a language?

[@baronmeduse]

@@RandomNameName448 Think of it like this. It's like when you start a job and you don't really know what to do, and no-one really tells you, but you see and copy what other people do and work things out from context. Maybe ask a few questions along the way. Then somehow you put it to work for yourself and just get better over time, It's not that you 'learned' in a planned way, you acquired it.

[@jahnacarlson3528]

​@RandomNameName448 think visuals and acting out messages for acquisition (the brain 'thinks' in pictures) and book learning for learning.

[@vaishnaviayyar8199]

Super will try this while teaching and learning French

[@antonystringfellow5152]

Excellent, thanks! I've been teaching English as a second language for 14 years and I already figured out much of what the Professor says in this video and have been saying as much to my students. Hearing this from the Professor has helped convince me I'm on the right path and has given me the confidence I need to move further along that path. I do still teach grammar but in a limited way, using my own material, sometimes with graphical representations to show visually how the structure relates to real life. I try to keep the explanations as short and simple as possible to make them easier to grasp and easier to remember. I saw this as the only way they could be of any use - realizing that even then, their use is limited. If the rule can't be explained simply, I don't waste my and the student's time trying. Experience has taught me it doesn't achieve anything. I've kept an AI summary of this just for reference. Great work!

[@stevencarr4002]

Jeff publishes videos where he explains things like 'the verb is to wake up' and 'A pillow - p-i-l-l-o-w - is what you put your head on when you sleep.' Jeff's clear , explicit learning lets you memorize vocabulary. Jeff even gives you 'a glossary with definitions of the key vocabulary'

[@Fafner888]

He is completely wrong about flashcards and Anki. Acquiring words via input may work ok if you are learning a language similar to your own (e.g. English & Spanish that share a lot of vocabulary), but try to memorize Japanese words, which have zero commonalities with European languages (not to mention memorizing kanjis kanjis) by just consuming input. That may work for extremely common words, but once you get into more advanced vocabulary, their frequency in input drops considerably and it makes really hard to remember them. From my personal experience of regularly using Anki, I do all my daily reviews in 25-30 minutes with 10 new words every day, and let me tell you, there is no freakin way I'd be able to learn 10 new words every day by doing 30 minutes of comprehensible input. The numbers just don't add up: Anki shows you only the words that you want to learn, while for CI to work properly well over 90% of the words you encounter are supposed to be words that you already know. This sounds like a massive waste of time, and there's no way you can cram enough repetitions into such a short interval to make the words stick when most of the words you encounter are not your target words. Another benefit of Anki (particularly with the latest FSRS algorithm) is that it tracks exactly your performance for every single card and can figure out when to show it before you are likely to forget it (so it will show you more frequently words you struggle with and less frequently words that are easier). This is an extremely efficient use of your study time: it's impossible to implement a similar tracking algorithm by just watching videos or reading CI materials. In addition, he is wrong to suggest that it's been empirically prove that tje CI method for learning vocabulary in context is the most time-efficient; the evidence is very thin and inconclusive and in fact there's evidence to the contrary. Paul Nation, an expert on vocabulary acquisition, cites in his works many studies that show that there is no real benefit of learning words "in context" as opposed to more traditional methods, while there's ample evidence that spaced repetition (i.e. flashcards) is extremely effective for long term retention and in fact that most efficient memorization method known. Finally, and this is the thing that I hate the most about all these comprehensible input gurus, is that they make this into an exclusive choice - you either study through comprehensible input, or you waste your time with traditional methods. The truth is that it's never been controversial that input is absolutely essential for mastering a language, no one has ever became fluent by just reading textbooks or sitting in a calssroom. You need absolutely massive amounts of exposure to the language in its natural form (either spoken or written) to internalize it to the level of reaching any kind of fluency. But that being said, it doesn't follow that input alone is enough, or that it is the most efficient study method, and as I indicated there's really very little evidence that this is the case. My position is that input is essential for reinforcing and solidifying what you've already learned by deliberate means (such as grammar and vocabulary study), and it's actually not very effective or efficient if you try to completely replace deliberate study with CI (unless your target language is already pretty close to other language/s you already speak). There's no question that it is possible to learn solely through comprehensible input, that's true (this is indeed how children learn, and some adults, say as immigrants). But the question is whether this is the most effective and time efficient method that an adult language learner can use to teach himself a language - and the answer to that is pretty conclusively a no.

[@stevencarr4002]

A very well written takedown of CI Children don't learn grammar solely through CI - , at least not all of it. Take the grammar rule of capital letters at the start of a sentence and a full stop at the end. Any teacher will tell you that children do not always learn this grammar rule through reading. They have to be taught it. As for input, children hear about 10 to 20 million words by the time they are 5. That gives you some idea of the amount of input needed for an input only method, to be able to speak like a 5 year old.

[@martinlaoshi]

"Finally, and this is the thing that I hate the most about all these comprehensible input gurus, is that they make this into an exclusive choice - you either study through comprehensible input, or you waste your time with traditional methods." Couldn't agree more. This binariy thinking of it's either my method or it won't work at all of these people is driving me crazy. Anyone who has studied languages seriously (as an adult) knows you need a variety of methods to make progress. There is no one simple solution that fits all.

[@wardm4]

This is the correct response. Even someone who thinks 100% CI is the best method for learning must see that spending even 20% of that time with intentional study of grammar/vocab will make a ton more input more comprehensible more quickly. In other words, the most efficient way to practice CI is something along the lines of 80/20 split using SRS. Adults don't have to handicap themselves. We don't have to be at the level of a 5-year-old after 5 years of full-time study.

[@Fafner888]

@@wardm4 That's exactly right, and it's also been my experience. Been doing Anki for under half a year (usually under 30 min a day) and my comprehension of input has skyrocketed. This proves that what the professor said is wrong - the vocabulary you learn with spaced repetition is undoubtedly retained and you can absolutely recall it in real time when listening without any trouble (of course you may struggle to remember some words, but the same is true for CI which only works with sufficient repetition). Another thing that irks me about CI is the insistence on not using the language/s you know as a crutch for learning. First of all, as you said, adults have a huge advantage over children - they already know at least one language, and it's insane not to use this knowledge to help learn the target language. The idea that it's better to try and guess what new words mean from context rather than relying on bilingual translations just doesn't make sense to me. It makes things very slow and inefficient. I've watched plenty of CI materials that try to teach new words by means of gestures and pictures and so on, and I didn't find any of these methods remotely as effective for long term retention compared to memorizing word with their English definitions via Anki. You can of course learn this way, but is it the most efficient use of one's time? Most probably not.

[@AJ-fo2pl]

@@Fafner888 "This sounds like a massive waste of time, and there's no way you can cram enough repetitions into such a short interval to make the words stick when most of the words you encounter are not your target words." This is untrue, brother. Just read more and read faster. The extra repetitions of the words you already know mean that you get a more nuanced understanding of them. You will use them more effectively and sound more naturally. People who use anki tend to have an unsustainable ratio of words known to books read. This kind of imbalance is a sure way to sound unnatural. You are also forgetting that, in our native languages, we learn words after reading them once or twice. The reason you need to keep reviewing in Anki, and doing spaced repetition, is that your meta-systems for memorizing words are suboptimal due to lack of volume of content. If you just read and read, it becomes like you native language, sometimes you can just see a word once and you'll never forget it thanks to the deep context. If you found that reading was "inefficient" you are either reading too slowly, too infrequently, or you are not hearing the sounds of the language properly in your head as your read (weak phonological memory). Doing anki means less time for reading. It's a bad idea.

[@TheIgnoredGender]

Watch some Peppa Pig

[@mythosmemes]

Did you learn that from Mark Thompson's Russian Accelerator. He has a whole section on Peppa Pig 🤣

[@peterwilkins7013]

Yes! I've been watching loads of Peppa Pig in German. It's really well done.😊

[@ProfessorThornburg]

Jeff McQullian Outstanding!

[@berenyiandre2040]

Dear Sir, I appreciate the content of your video and the arguments you put foward. I learnt Hungarian through grammar. I agree with your arguments. English language teacher based in France. Andre BERENYI

[@patricknewton7744]

He said "la mano mio". The prof needs to hit the books. He proved himself wrong just two minutes into his lecture. There is no substitute for diligence.

[@ady38]

If natural language acquisition is always better than learning, then how can adults spend years living in a foreign country surrounded by a foreign language and still not learn anything other than very basic greetings etc? Can the prof direct us to any research which supports natural language acquisition as a more effective stand alone tool? For me I think a mixture is more time effective..

[@1stMilcom]

I am currently acquiring Thai and Japanese at the same time. This video is absolutely spot on! I have never studied grammar or flash cards and acquired English Chinese and German to native level over 50 years.

[@mikeymileos]

I've been learning Japanese thru acquisition and while it has helped me to learn a bunch of stuff, pulling back and spending a few hours to learn about Japanese verb conjugation helped me immensely. My acquisition was based on formal Japanese and the verbs had already been changed and I didn't understand AT ALL how the dictionary verb connected to the polite Japanese use of it AT ALL. Now that I have learned verb conjugation, I can understand the same verb in so many different ways. When I start hearing and acquiring them it's going to make so much more sense now

[@soquentiasseurompe688]

For beginners, flashcards are necessary. They just don't have enough knowledge to enjoy comprehensible inputs. I have acquired several languages to an intermediate level. My experience is to start learning a language with a flashcard app (I use Memrise's community courses) to memorize a bunch of frequently used words (this takes about a month or two). After this, I can start listening to or reading some actual comprehensible texts in that language. At this stage, flashcards become less important but still supplementary. While I can spend most of the time acquiring the language with comprehensible inputs, I will still go back to the flashcard app to review words and learn new words that suit my level. Having learnt a word in the flashcard app before encountering it in a reading/listening exercise makes it more memorable than only hearing/seeing it once in the wild. In short, I agree mostly with what is said in this video, but I think the usefulnees of flashcard apps is being downplayed.

[@HoraryHellfire]

Not all languages have it, but there exists comprehensible input for absolute beginners. "Comprehensible" does not mean you understand the words by knowing the words. "Comprehensible" means you are able to understand without yet knowing the word. That you can estimate, infer, or accurately guess the meaning without fully knowing the word prior. Maybe you already knew some of it, which is fine. Maybe you know nothing. Regardless, it's only comprehensible input if you understand it, and did not yet know it.

[@MrLilwallace]

There's some stuff in here that I disagree with. Those languages where I haven't consciously studied grammar I tend to have fossilized errors, little issues with conjunctions and the like where I keep making the same mistakes again and again and again. And you can meet Chinese-speaking natives who have lived abroad many years and can speak English at a rapid pace and understand nearly everything, yet speak 100% in present tense because they never studied the way that Indo-European languages handle verb tenses.

[@uchuuseijin]

This is simply untrue. It's obvious to anyone who has ever spoken to or taught one of those Chinese people that they have studied tenses extensively, and that studying the grammar explicitly did nothing.

[@MrLilwallace]

@@uchuuseijin So why, then, having spoken the language for decades and being fluent enough with what they do know, is the CI method unable to teach them how to properly conjugate their verbs. Why is the guy who has been serving English natives for 15 years still saying, "You want dumpling or you want noodle?" I think it's because he came with some basics and then never tried to figure out the grammar. To be clear, this is not all Chinese people--some of whom speak great English--nor is it *only* Chinese people. I've known Russians who never learn how to use articles because they don't exist in their language and they never figured it out in spite of thousands of hours of contact with the language.

[@adrianpaulwynne]

@MrLilwallace Because language learning takes a lot of effort - exposure to a huge amount of comprehensible input and caring enough about getting it right to listen closely and repeat. Many adults stop at good enough for their life situation. They don't emerse in enough variety or repetition of comprehensible input and don't try to get it right. It's easier to get the exposure as a kid. Native speakers don't learn tenses etc through grammar - they learn through example sentences. The brain is wired to learn like this. Same for second languages

[@uchuuseijin]

@@MrLilwallace first of all, CI is not a method, a grammar book contains comprehensible input. It is literally impossible to do anything resembling language study without putting language in your head (input), and useless to do anything that you don't comprehend. Every method contains CI. Second, these people are very often people who have studied English in classrooms for years on end. They've done nothing *but* grammar study. I have taught adults who make these kinds of mistakes and, most of the time, if you prompt them to correct themselves, they can. But, as the video says, they continue to make the mistake anyway. That's precisely what fossilization is- knowing what is correct and continuing to be wrong. It is almost certainly *because* they studied grammar in a classroom setting, and only had other people correcting/teaching them their grammar, that they never developed the skills they'd need to notice and correct their own mistakes in real time. Long and Swain both note that linguistic features need to be explicitly noticed- in other words, explicit grammar instruction, in which grammar is noticed for the student by someone else, can have the opposite effect and cause the student to tune the grammar features in their input out. They may even be deliberately trying to *avoid* noticing their own grammar mistakes, as they're forcing themselves to speak as fast as they can, so as to do their jobs. Third, you're neglecting to mention the examples you've doubtlessly seen where explicit grammar instruction *caused* students to make mistakes. People saying things like "noodles shop" because there's more than one noodle there and their teacher drilled it into their heads that "multiple=plural". Or when students say something like "I met the him" because they were corrected every time they forgot to say "the" when they should have, and so now they overcorrect themselves. In fact, this also pretty easily explains the avoidance in the "you want noodle" example as well- they were probably tired of putting the s in the wrong place and getting yelled at, and so developed a habit of avoiding it altogether. In general, "X doesn't work because people make mistakes" is a pretty specious argument because most people try a lot of different things and imperfection is the norm.

[@dianas2766]

30 years of adult ESL / ESOL under the belt, and I couldn't agree more! Isn't that how children also learn? Anyone noticed we begin studying grammar in school when we have already acquired our first language!!

[@IELTS_UK]

This is brilliant

[@stevencarr4002]

Stephen Krashen is a great expert in language learning methods, but in his interview with MattVsJapan 3 years ago, he said that he had never heard of Anki. Hardly an expert then is he? And how did this research on how flashcards don't work take place when Krashen had never even heard of Anki, even as recently as 3 years ago?

[@MrLilwallace]

And does the guy in the video actually speak a foreign language? His short Spanish example was wrong.

[@jeboshifru]

When I hear that adults learn the same way children do, I just remember how my daughter talked when she was 2 years old, after 2 years of being surrounded by the language and practicing it since she started with first sounds. Everyone who recommends this, talks about "research", without providing links to any actual research.

[@HoraryHellfire]

Then pay a bit more attention. "The research" is quite literally the research of the dude in the video, Jeff McQuillan. He has a PhD in Linguistics, and a colleague of Stephen Krashen, which much of the research is referenced by Krashen on their website.

[@jeboshifru]

@@HoraryHellfire Mhm. So, could you post the methodology of research here in details, please? Ad verecundiam is not enough for me. How many languages do you speak? Do you have any videos where you speak them?

[@stevencarr4002]

@@jeboshifru Krashen is quite clear that you should work on your vocabulary to make input more comprehensible - ' Both Evelyn Hatch and I have stated the argument for increased vocabulary work in recent years , and our argumentation is, I think, similar. While knowledge of vocabulary may not be sufficient for understanding all messages, there is little doubt that an increased vocabulary helps the acquirer understand more of what is heard or read' Do you really need scientific studies to show that increased vocabulary work helps people understand what they read?

[@HoraryHellfire]

@@jeboshifru It's not my responsibility to reference their research. I'm a commenter, just like you. Frankly, you're getting all uppity complaining about "bUt tHe ReSeArCh" only because you're too lazy to read the author's works yourself. You want to be spoonfed citations. "Ad verecundiam" doesn't apply here. You asked for citations ignorantly ignoring that the video specifically mentions both Dr Krashen and Dr McQuillan. That is more than enough information for you to look into their research. It's already been referenced in the video's description. Like, you can literally find the research yourself quite easily by going "McQuillan acquisition research" on google, or using scholarly sources for their research papers. Because the research is what Krashen and McQuillan contribute to the Second Language Acquisition field of study.

[@jeboshifru]

@@HoraryHellfire yeah, right, let's advertise something as "scientifically proven" and yell "research" and then say you're not responsible to providing evidence. THis only shows me you never saw that research, nor any other, that you don't know how to read one, actually.

[@frederiquecouture3924]

Thank You.

[@ididntstartthefire928]

As an intermediate level japanese learner, this advice is fantastic and inspired me to go out and buy some more simple manga (with some furigana!) to hopefully get some more of that comprehensible input! thanks! that being said, i do still think there has to be some benefit to explicit learning, at least at the start where there isn't much comprehensible input available let alone ones that you actually find fun or interesting..

[@yoahanna220]

💯I knew people in an anime club who learned Japanese watching anime on TV.

[@TroyLFullerton]

Dr. McQuillan is parroting Krashen's input hypotheses, and for all of his scholarly-sounding confidence, I am flatly unconvinced. I admire the work of Dr. Krashen and CERTAINLY see the benefit of comprehensible input, but I simply cringe when I hear someone say that explicit learning is "a waste of time". In the first place, if comprehensible input were all that was necessary, then there would be no such thing as receptive bilinguals (people who can understand a language, but who cannot speak it), nor would there be SO VERY MANY people who have acquired comprehension skills, but who cannot speak in a grammatically correct way or with anything approaching a decent accent---yet, we all know that that is not the case. Even before acquiring my Ph.D., I never could get past that. I've had classes of kids who had two to three years of heavy comprehensible input in Spanish who still could not correctly use the present tense--only to be told that it doesn't matter--they'll get it with more input. Supposedly, what was important was that they were "communicating" and "having fun using the language". Hogwash. Secondly, I have never seen any substantial evidence supporting this big dichotomy between "learning" and "acquisition"---as a fluent Spanish interpreter who didn't start learning Spanish till I was 13, I strongly and stridently disagree with the notion that explicitly studying vocabulary or grammar is a waste of time. We can front-load our learning through direct, explicit study, THEN we can put it into practice and use it to the point of automaticity. This has worked very well for me, and I've seen it work for others as well. On the other hand, SHOW ME THE STUDENTS who have "acquired" language skills through comprehensible input to the point of being able to read and understand their L2 on a functional level, speak and write in a grammatically correct way, and have a decent accent. I'm asking this sincerely---I've seen SO MUCH PROMOTION of these hypotheses, and I just don't see the results. ON THE OTHER HAND, combining explicit learning (I'll use the word) with large amounts of comprehensible input and reading and conversation practice DOES yield results, and I'm living proof. No, grammar and memorized vocabulary alone do not result in L2 skills...but neither does comprehensible input.

[@fruitytarian]

Wow, this is the first time I've heard the term "receptive bilingual", that's what I am, I can understand my mother's language but can't speak it. I feel like I have a mental block between hearing the words, understanding them and speaking them. Do you have any tips for breaking out of that block?

[@TroyLFullerton]

@@fruitytarian This phenomenon is INCREDIBLY common--much more than most people imagine--and it is often seen among the children/grandchildren of immigrants. When parents/grandparents speak your heritage language but allow you to answer in English, they are setting you up for this to happen. I knew one woman who had such a bad case of it that she couldn't even speak up and defend herself when people were talking about HER! She'd sit there and listen to adults say, "Well, how come she can't speak Spanish if she's Mexican?!?!?!"--and she'd understand everything. While the language is the same and there is crossover between functions, to a great degree, language reception and language production are processed in different parts of our brains. You've actually already got the hardest part done---if you can understand your heritage language, then the language has already been frontloaded into your brain. I've known people in your situation who largely get hung up on the different ways sentences are structured grammatically between the two languages---they just don't know how to reframe the thought in a different way other than what they're used to saying it in English. Here are a couple of things to do: Get reading material in your mother's language. You'll run into vocabulary that you don't know (just because it was never used at home), but that's not a bad thing--read things one paragraph at a time and start making lists. If your heritage language is written with the Latin alphabet, you'll probably be surprised at how easily you'll be able to pick up on reading. Pinpoint things that are said differently, and back-translate them. Think: "Hmmm....now how do we say that in English?" and just passively recognize those differences. This will help you to begin to recognize and think about how the two languages are structured differently when you're not under pressure to perform and you have time to analyze the structure. Finally, you're going to have to just jump into the deep end and start speaking---even if it's not right at first, and even if it sounds strange or takes time to crank it out. People learn to speak by speaking (and don't let anybody ever tell you anything different). Give your friends/family members permission to gently correct you. It won't take long. Start with simple things, then get into more complex sentences as you go along. As soon as possible, find a grammar of your heritage language that explains what you're saying in English. That will help you to categorize the different elements and give you a name for them. This will make it tremendously easier as you go along. Best wishes!

[@emiliafernandez4234]

Bravo! Finally someone says it. And as a native Spanish speaker and because of my own experience as a teacher of Spanish language, what the man in this video says it's not always true

[@fruitytarian]

@@TroyLFullerton thank you! This is so helpful, and fascinating. I think my problem is I "know" I sound "silly"/ have the wrong accent when speaking my mother language. English was my first language, and as you mentioned, my parents spoke to me and with extended family around me in their language but never insisted I responded in the language. When I tried to speak as a child my words sound odd to my ears, not like how my parents spoke, and I didn't like that so I stopped speaking. In highschool I became exposed to the lingua Franca in my country and had the same problem, I hated the way I sounded so I never spoke it. But once I started working I had no choice, everyone spoke it and so I had to too. There were a few years of anxiety and discomfort any time I was forced to speak but now 12 years later I'm fluent in it. I've recently started teaching myself Russian and I have no problem speaking words because I don't "know" how "bad" I sound. There's no voice in my brain comparing what I know the word should sound like to what comes out of my mouth, saying "what was that? That did not sound like what you thought it did.." since Russian has not been frontloaded in my brain... Quite fascinating, I look forward to trying out your suggestions to finally get speaking my native language. thank you again 🤓

[@Komatik_]

To me, one of the important functions of input is to make me go "huh, what's that" about a thing in a piece of content, and then check what the word/grammar point was. That way I have a connection to it in existing material so it's not some disembodied fact in a conjugation table but I also get an explicit explanation as to what it is. Then seeing it again in your input content helps solidify then new thing you just learned. Being input heavy and checking interesting things is more or less how I ended up learning English to fluency. Speaking definitely also needs practice by itself, even if you've done a good regimen of heavy input. It shouldn't need too much practice if your comprehension is good, but needs some, and that part definitely benefits from corrections - hell, kids get corrected all the time when learning their native language and when they happen to say something wrong. Teachers focusing on "Supposedly, what was important was that they were 'communicating' and 'having fun using the language' " sound like they have brainworms and want to feel warm and fuzzy rather than really build good skills for their students.

[@Davey441]

It's how we all acquired our native languages. Acquisition.

[@stevencarr4002]

Children get millions of words of input when acquiring their first language.

[@Davey441]

@@stevencarr4002 Exactly Steven. They acquire them with input through listening, Not a grammar book in sight.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Davey441 and how long does it take a child to properly learn the language including writing and reading? Around 6-7 years. That is a freaking lot of time to speak a language at a child level, if we "learn like children".

[@Davey441]

@@marikothecheetah9342 You have a point when including writing and reading it does take longer. I'm talking about understanding and speaking. What I say is how a language is acquired. It's acquired with input. As adults, it happens faster because we already have the ability to include reading and writing. Watch the video again and try to understand what he says.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Davey441 Watch the video again and try to understand what he says." - and thank you very much for this assumption, end of discussion, bye.

[@WeiOnline]

Thank you very much for such a helpful approach to language learning. My question is where can i find the resources for comprehensible learning materials. I’d like to acquire French and Mandarin.

[@lynneivison5773]

I have taught English one to one for 20 years. This is excellent advice. I also teach English like a mother teaches her children. I look (and am) delighted when they get something right. I later go back and correct mistakes . I find out their interests and tell them to read, watch what they would read inFrench and NEVER to read anything boring. We can do that together andI complain about the Baccelaureat text as much as they do. We study art together . Results - mostly distinction....

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Always funny to listen to CI preacher. I could spend a lot of time dismantling what he's saying but vocabulary part simply made me laugh. "If you listened to comprehensible input you would acquire even more words" - okay, maybe in your world, professor. I may listen to Japanese audiobooks all I freaking want but it won't make me fluent in reading kanji. :P Not to even mention ateji kanji or idioms. But I like how convinced these preachers always are, that this is THE way. THE ultimate way for everybody to learn. And the truth is - languages can be pretty complicated and different, and you really need to sit on those damn rules to even have the vague idea how a particular language works.

[@Alec72HD]

Chill out. He is correct, with the exception of Non-phonetic writing systems. I mean, spoken Japanese, Chinese and written Japanese, Chinese are unrelated. A Chinese school student would spend 12 years just to learn to read and write. Obviously, even a NATIVE Chinese speaker still needs a gigantic expenditure of time to learn written Chinese explicitly. On the other hand, someone can learn what Chinese characters mean in English without understanding a single spoken word in Chinese.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Alec72HD I am more than chilled out. In fact I was laughing most of the time. "On the other hand, someone can learn what Chinese characters mean in English without understanding a single spoken word in Chinese." - it's clear you don't understand how Chinese works. So chill out and calm down with your theories.

[@yosvaniquiala6036]

True

[@Alec72HD]

@@marikothecheetah9342 How am I wrong? Please explain. Chinese characters can sound any way you want. You can have people speaking entirely different languages but using the same characters. You can even assign English words to Chinese characters.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Alec72HD "Chinese characters can sound any way you want." - okay, If you say so. "You can have people speaking entirely different languages but using the same characters." - true, that is why you use one dialect/language, dumbo. Just like you don' go on mixing BrEng and AmEng and ScEng and any Englisdh creole- you choose one version and you stick to it. Thus if you learn to read hanzi as per Mandarin Chinese you will be able to understand most of spoken Chinese after learning character due to its characteristics - not gonna mention what, after all, you seem to be an expert in Chinese. "You can even assign English words to Chinese characters." quoi? No, that's not how it works, but as I said - you seem to be an expert in Chinese. :P

[@hindisikhnewaalaa]

Mistaken first claim: that adults learn languages (or for that matter, acquire them) in the same way as children. It has been clearly shown time and again over the last sixty years how different the adult and child language learning processes are.

[@jonathanenglishteacher2376]

Absolutely. L1 takes over 10 years.

[@jantelakoman]

There is influence from L1 to be sure, and our analytical cognitive capacity can compensate for what we haven't acquired yet. But it's a consensus position now in SLA research that language acquisition is essentially input driven and emergent. Check out the paper "Was Krashen right? 40 years later" made available for free download by the authors. So the core "engine" of acquisition is the same in children and adults. The most striking demonstration of this is in the ALG method, which you can try for yourself on Dreaming Spanish, Comprehensible Thai, or on the little taster course on my channel. All of which is free by the way.

[@stevencarr4002]

@@jantelakoman Of course, language acquisition is essentially input driven and emergent. Children get at least 10 to 20 million words of input by the time they are five. LLMs are fed massive amounts of data. Massive input is a necessary condition for learning a language. That doesn't mean Krashen is right. Or that he is wrong. Unfalsifiable theories can never be right or wrong. They aren't science. Even your chosen paper 'Was Krashen right?' says - 'It is true that many of Krashen's papers focus on case studies of successful language learners, not on large, controlled studies-and, that he is often content with corroborating evidence rather than causal evidence.' Krashen does not use science in his theories.

[@jantelakoman]

​@@stevencarr4002 You're cherry picking that paper. I encourage everyone to read it impartially

[@stevencarr4002]

@@jantelakoman That paper wasn't written impartially. I'm simply pointing out what your chosen source says, and will now point out your inability to say that that 'cherry' was wrong. You cherry-picked that paper. Don't whine when people read it. Krashen's theories rely heavily on UG. As LLMs' have shown, Universal Grammar is not a necessary concept to be able to process language. Of course, this doesn't mean UG is wrong, because it is another unfalsifiable theory.

[@DengBarach-yd2zz]

You are right Sir exactly IAM south Sudanese who growth outside Sudan in early 1980s and when the CP a signed agreement was accessed I went back to Sudan with out any simple Arabic languages communication but the acquisition made possible for me simply because I was interested to communicate with Arabic Thank you for that great explanation

[@brolol3136]

Whooooooah, eye-opening! Hello and Thanks from Belarus, Comrades 😇

[@unbabunga229]

Raise a child and you will see CI is not how they only learn. They are trying to speak straight away, and you spend years correcting them, explaining why you say X a certain way etc. You learn a language largely from interaction as your input

[@droebi4071]

I admit, it sounds tempting, but it's definitely not working with me. I think I just have an other kind of brain. As an exaple, I faced some really beginner words million times during my job in IT the last 30 years, like "file", or "folder" or "explorer" but when I started to study english, I couldn't imagine what these words in "real life" means, I even had no idea why the icon of a folder or a file look like they look. I hat to study conscious these words to remember what meaning they convey. Secondly I never was able to use even one single word in a conversation (active vocab) that I didn't study consciously before and reviewed it at least 30 times. That all doesn't mean that I stay away from comprehensible content. No, I constantly force myself to dive into such content on a regular basis. But it just doesn't work for me.

[@HoraryHellfire]

"File", "Folder", and "Explorer" aren't that comprehensible, especially for what they represent in real life. It's computer jargon, not basic English. Keep in mind it's only "Comprehensible Input" if you understand the meaning of what is being said. If you don't understand, it's not comprehensible input.

[@mottahead6464]

Great advice. In my case, as a person with a very inquisitive mind (meaning I'm curious about language), it's exhilarating to reach a point where I can finally understand what previously made no sense to me at all. And I agree with those who claim that it's important to learn basic structures allowing one to express oneself, specially ask questions, in a conversational context. And.... (another and... oh, boy) as a amateur musician, I believe it's really important to play close attention to sounds (sometimes I go like "hey, there's a hammer on here.... there's a slide there.... that's pretty staccato... and so on). Also when to slightly pause and when to accelerate, or blend a couple of short words into a quick run. Yes, language learning can be that fun. Peace.

[@RandomNameName448]

This krashinite way of language "aquisition" is starting to sound like a cult.

[@MrLilwallace]

It's not that it's bad advice, it's just that so many people take it to an extreme. I'd like to know if the guy in this video has tried to learn a language with nothing more than comprehensive input for something like Arabic or Japanese. Good luck with that.

[@RandomNameName448]

@@MrLilwallace That's right. It is impossible to get enough "comprehensible input" as a beginner. Especially over 90% of comprehensibility like he suggests. The most practical thing to do is to study the traditional way, learning grammar and vocabulary through textbooks, classes, translation, flashcards, etc. That would help to make your "input" more comprehensible. If you're in the intermediate stage of learning a language, then immersion is absolutely the best thing to do. But at the start, you just don't have enough baggage to get almost anything useful from just listening and reading. I say this as someone who learned English by "just watching tv and reading novels". I know that the process would be so much quicker if I focused on more intensive studying, IN CONJUNCTION with getting comprehensible input.

[@HoraryHellfire]

@@RandomNameName448 Incorrect. It is not impossible to "get enough Comprehensible Input" as a beginner. It's sometimes not that feasible, given the nature of available resources in the language. But "impossible" is not true. You assume that something is comprehensible by knowing previous words. But the point of Comprehensible Input, especially for a beginner, is that you can understand new words you have yet to know through context alone.

[@johnmcculloch1050]

Sorry but this guy waffled on for 20 minutes and told us nothing

[@michaelmilford8549]

Lol that’s like all professors

[@stefaniasmanio5857]

But you have acquired that...

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

Thanks for showing everyone how totally clueless and ignorant you are.

[@nattawutkerdsorod8945]

Thank you.

[@MCBosmans]

I feel a similar concept applies in self defense courses and many traditional martial arts, where students learn and rehearse endless combinations of techniques on an endless series of situations and attacks (form as opposed to meaning). When the actual skills are needed a lot of people if not most mess up or even draw a blank and just freeze. The concept of "play", which is a natural way for humans to learn things the best, is more free, and works at a deeper level (meaning as opposed to form). Not just sparring where everything goes is part of it, but also lower intensity versions of resistance training with a partner where one is challenged to be creative on the spot, instead of trying to recognize the situation and draw from an endless catalogue of techniques. Very interesting video. Thank you for sharing!

[@matt_brooks-green]

I agree. Comparing the efficacy of rolling vs hours of kata it does speak for itself

[@yosvaniquiala6036]

Smoke sellers... Without vocabulary you don't have comprehensible input.

[@HoraryHellfire]

That's not a "gotcha" argument at all. Vocabulary, aka "words", is required for comprehensible input. Because language uses vocabulary and words. Words are the very basic function of language altogether. They're not selling smoke, they're informing you to stay away from rote memorization of vocabulary, via traditional study methods. Not trying to tell you "vocabulary doesn't exist". Understanding the context, ffs.

[@harunhernandez]

Comprehensible input is vital, but it's not the only factor in language learning. Learners also need feedback and motivation to improve their speaking skills and accuracy. While comprehensible input helps with understanding, it may not guarantee grammatical correctness or mastery of language details. Feedback from native speakers and consistent practice are essential for learners to develop fluency and confidence in speaking