The Saga of Tenpenny Tower Part 3: Murder at the Tower - Fallout 3 Lore

[@DelinquentChibi]

What pisses me off the most about this quest is that Roy kills Dashwood. He liked ghouls! His best friend was a ghoul! Argyle is even arguably the better of the two characters on his show! But he still got killed for living in the tower.

[@MrWeezy312]

J. Lee Tillery i know what your saying. He wasnt even a bigot and dies but i guess the whole point of the fallout universe is pretty much life isn't fair

[@royphillips5901]

He attacked me first when he saw Tenpenny’s corpse in the bathtub, it was self defence!

[@3DRiley_]

Pretty much what I just wrote before scrolling. Roy doesn't hate bigots that hate ghouls but humans in general.

[@parastroika2393]

liberals get the bullet too

[@DelinquentChibi]

S B ? I assume that's a joke in poor taste?

[@johnmoo8072]

Man, security is pretty worthless if some angry wife can just kill her husband & his other love interest and walk out no questions asked.

[@PlebNC]

Money talks and everybody listens.

[@tombumk7443]

Think they're just to keep dangers from the waste out, with the resident selection being so strict. Before the ghouls were let in of course.

[@SanilJadhav711]

I mean ... she's an angry wife after all lol

[@hales6547]

boi deserves it

[@maruwatchesyou8281]

Idk seems pretty realistic to me

[@chrisschoenthaler5184]

Okay. Herbert “Daring” Dashwood is amazing. That hill of corpses was quite the testament to the power of the combat shotgun.

[@foxydash9992]

Chris Schoenthaler it’s a testament to how he is basically a god

[@scottricklaroque7428]

It's more powerful against most things in the hands of NPCs than in your hands. Charon is a testament to that.

[@ahwayzcool4630]

Herbert is almost like Hershal from TWD with his unlimited shotgun ammo. Lol

[@fieldmarshaljoe]

What hill of corpses

[@jus7040]

@@fieldmarshaljoe after the peaceful solution, the ghuls kill all residents later, then you see piled ghul corpses in Herbert's room, where he did by their hands.

[@areacua95]

The thing here is that the Karma system is more something of how the others see you. You steal in Megaton, they think you're doing something evil, but if you steal in paradise falls you don't lose karma (I can't remember if you win) so is more something of how the wasteland sees you. This also explains why on the Pitt, if you side whit Ashur and the slaves attack you, you lose karma even when they are attacking you. The thing with Roy is that everyone in the wasteland think he is a good guy and the victim of the evil guy Tenpenny, so if you kill him, the rest of the wasteland believe you did something bad. Why does this happends? If you listen to Galaxy News Radio, you hear Three Dog talk about the Tenpanny tower situation in a tone of symphaty for the Ghoul and that he is a victim, so the people that hear Galaxy believe that roy is good guy. Basically, Roy Phillips is a Villain with good publicity

[@crimzonempire4677]

areacua95 minority

[@EGOS42]

That's a very reasonable assessment. At the end of the day faction reactions like in New Vegas is a much better system. It allows nuance like you stated to be much clearer. With faction reactions you can keep karma from being faction biased and closer to a pure evaluation of good/evil deeds.

[@GiordanDiodato]

Tenpenny is an asshole, though

[@kylemendoza8860]

I don't see why anyone in the wasteland would have negative views of killing Roy after what he did.

[@your-username-here2308]

Not really. Stealing from Slavers etc is not a bad thing. Its just a Gameplay problem from all Fallout Games with that system.

[@Bidmartinlo]

If you ignore the fact that Roy is a Ghoul; he just becomes a psychopath. As Oxhorn basically says; don't judge people by their specie, race or gender, but by their words and actions.

[@DavidS-q1g]

Not really, the fact he’s a ghoul is central to the justification. Not sure how you don’t see how killing people who want you exterminated and view you as an animal, is different from killing innocent people.

[@Bidmartinlo]

@@DavidS-q1g Oh? So should everyone follow this philosophy? Or perhaps only the chosen few should be allowed to follow this philosophy?

[@Chey60]

@@DavidS-q1gsounds like he may have been that way pre ghoul turning. Other ghouls are civil..so…

[@Mr.Nobody_97]

@@DavidS-q1g Ghoul lives matter, right? ✊🤡

[@NEligahn]

I distinctly remember, the first time I played this doing the "peaceful" solution and feeling very proud of myself. I then left the tower and never returned. My home/HQ then was Megaton, so I had no reason to ever return. I never knew what Roy did to the residents. That's horribly messed up.

[@thehorrorhound6575]

I lived in the tower and was doing it to try to get back to neutral and I come back to my player home and everyone I actually liked like herbert, and the doctor are dead and I was pissed

[@tylersoto7465]

@@thehorrorhound6575 I that's why I just killed Roy I just wanted my penthouse suite

[@mish375]

I tried the peaceful solution as well. Then heard Three Dog on the Radio talking about the ghouls murdering people in the Tower and chastising the LW over it. Went back and found everyone dead. I was really shocked by that ending.

[@pitbossea]

Tenpenny hired the talon mercs to get you killed he deserved it.

[@IvorySovereign]

I'm actually glad I agree with Oxhorn on this. I don't mind the other ghouls but Roy is not the leader they need. He's horrific. He's part of the reason people are afraid of ghouls. Why would anyone want to live with ghouls after hearing what happened there - any trust would go out of the window. No, I personally stay away from this quest because of how much it bugs out and I hate how it's protrayed. I refuse to let Roy kill the residents, just like I refuse to let Roy continue being a menace and leading the weakminded astray. So, you gotta shoot him in the head.

[@watersoflife1013]

Dr Bothersome I agree but disagree I do hate the other two Like ox said Michael and Betsy are enablers. Not only that but they are two sides that act like they don't have a problem with humans but when something happens to them they turn a blind eye and say oh they must have done something to deserve that. What? Maybe some were prejudice but they gave them a chance to prove them wrong then they just change their minds for no reason? So literally Roy killing all the residents doesn't bother them. So a few people living there being prejudiced is the worst thing in the world but when their friend commits genicide to the tenpenny community it's totally fine. Human reaction to a group of people (in this case ghouls) constantly on their doorstep demanding entrance threatening them every day would be fear and that's a reasonable reaction but Roy sees it as they're scared because they've never seen a 'zombie' before so if one guard is mean to him that means everyone behind the gate is mean. Roy is probably the most prejudice character I fallout 3. He is the thing he hates most. And I don't believe him and Tenpenny got into an argument at all. Here's what I think happened, Roy takes the elevator up and sees Tenpenny in his room and does one of two things A. He barges in demanding he have his room for himself or demanding tenpenny to share his room with him. Or B. Walks in saying nothing shoots him in cold blood against the wall tenpenny while shot retreats into the bathroom and trips or just dies and falls into the bathtub. Tenpenny did nothing wrong in this situation. I truly feel this is how it happened

[@johnyguitar258]

fuck that one of the roys ghouls friend was do in expiraments on ppl before th war only the woman dint desrev to die

[@nixonsprguy3629]

Lol. You certainly can judge someone by what he's done two centuries ago.. Like you can get moron tattooed on your forehead.

[@Campocosas]

U get the leader you deserve

[@XSilver_WaterX]

I do the sane thing as any Waster, guilt-free genocide of transhuman traitors. Fallout feels like the average WH40k setting where new Imperial colonists are dealing with cultist and possessed bredren.

[@ingasparrow]

I think the Ghoul mask is a very suitable reward. You're a monster and now you can look like one, too.

[@DruNkMoNK137]

Atleast I own up to it and reload a save where I’ve killed useless NPCs

[@SmallCactus22]

Ohhhh burn lmao

[@acls1239]

I'm not a monster I sided with the ghouls but I didn't let them kill the residence I just wanted that mask it looked cool plus Tenpenny dies

[@admasveagaanesrdlargdela9347]

@@acls1239 poggerz!

[@AngelStuff3]

Geeeez lmaoo

[@DietrichvonSachsen]

I'm glad you said what I was thinking: Roy is basically a ghoulified raider. Even when I played this as a good-Karma character, I killed Roy and his ghouls. Yes, Allister and the other bigots are jerks, but that's not a good enough reason to have them killed. And siding with Roy means you have to kill well-meaning people like Dashwood.

[@Hakokoro]

At the start they are equally bad,both sides are planning to exterminate the other. But Roy and the ghoula clearly shows them the worst of the bunch

[@royphillips5901]

I just got sick of living in the fucking sewers, bigot!

[@3DRiley_]

Tenpenny is quite a interrestingly weird character. On one hand I really hate him for wanting to blow up Megaton but he actually likes it when the SS chooses the civilized route of talking and lets the ghouls in.

[@falconsawcon1978]

Roy Phillips Roy I'm sorry but I massacred your zombie friends in my playthrough. Any opinions and thoughts on that.

[@wilhelmrk]

3DRiley Dont forget that Tenpenny ordered Burke to evacuate the civilians of Megaton first but Burke ignored the order.

[@belmiris1371]

It made me so angry when, after figuring out the peaceful solution, I came back to find all the people killed! I reloaded the game and lost a lot of experience just to sneak in and kill the ghouls in their sleep with Mister Sandman. Karma be darned!

[@snurgumwurgum8238]

Social justice at work.

[@dakarai47]

They bigots

[@SmallCactus22]

A true hero

[@YourOwnDa]

@@dakarai47bigots who get proven right in the end because they get killed by the very people they were afraid of

[@haydenbanks4686]

You know something's wrong the town drunk isn't at thee bar

[@nixonsprguy3629]

As my towns drunkard I can confirm that statement.

[@Manfromthenorth0551]

Kinda ironic that if you chose the "peaceful" option that in the end the only residents of Tenpenny Tower who survive the are the racists that left the tower. Good job Roy, you killed people that accepted you and let the racists live. **condescending slow clap**

[@nietzschesmoustache3585]

I can't help but feel like there's a real life lesson in there somewhere.

[@nietzschesmoustache3585]

@Sith'ari Azithoth Could you imagine if something like that happened in real life? Pretty far out.

[@bosto23]

Racist? lol

[@shanf1639]

@Sith'ari Azithoth and you feel fine for killing 3 innocent people who only had radiation exposure?and leave his other options out of it he probably had a bard karma char or something idc I and besides it's better to let them love in the basement tou can kill them when they turn I think they guards can handle 3 ferals

[@shanf1639]

@Sith'ari Azithoth rip spelling

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

Those residents of Tenpenny Tower are all extremely old (except for the guards but those are hired mercs). Ghouls are immortal. If Roy had just waited 5 or 10 more years they would have old died naturally he could have had that damn tower he covets so much without bloodshed. It's not like the ghouls down in the underground station will die if they don't gain entry into the tower RIGHT NOW. Roy complained why people think that ghouls don't deserve to live in luxury apartments? Most people in the Wasteland don't live in luxury apartments, Roy. Your underground home is no worse than what people have in Diamond City, Good Neighbor, Sanctuary or in some old Vaults. This is not a case of the residents of Tenpenny Tower living in luxury because they oppress and exploit workers that they refuse to pay proper wages to and force to live in squalor... robots do all the work. The ghouls did not build that tower, they merely turned up and saw someone else had found an empty pre-war apartment complex first and got envious. I say it again, by Roy's own loudly stated rules of "Might makes Right in the Wasteland, you have a right to take whatever you want, and you own whatever you can grab if you are defend it against others", the residents of Tenpenny Tower are only defending their own home.

[@watersoflife1013]

CrunchyFrog damn dude I've played this game since it came out and I never thought of that. You're brilliant. Yes ghouls don't really age and the average lifespan of someone during an Apocalyptic wasteland is maybe in their 50s or 60s if lucky. Yes Tenpenny is 80 according to the strategy guide and wiki so he's an exception. But at 80 years old he's not going to live much longer I wouldn't think. And carol from underworld said that she's a pre war ghoul so at the time of her saying that she's over 200 years old. Averaging the ages of all the residents of Tenpenny tower saying 50s and very few younger, Roy would only have to wait 30 years or so and be able to move in no problem. He might not even have to wait that long honestly but for a ghoul 30 years is only a small fraction of their lifespan so what does it matter

[@ScarletImp]

This quest frustrated me as well. My moral code tells me that no, no a bunch of innocent people do not deserve a horrible death just because several people within their community are anti-Ghoul pricks. Yes, Roy has a point in that there are humans who think all Ghouls are basically zombies, but does that justify mass murder? Then he’s no better than a human raider who shoots up an entirely Ghoul settlement. Here’s an idea, Roy: instead of slaughtering people in a tower, why don’t you go clear out a Raider base and begin constructing a new settlement for Ghouls so they don’t have to risk death walking all the way to Underworld in DC.

[@elijahvelasco8963]

I'll have a verti-assault team on Roy on the double! NO ONE KILLS HERBERT DARING DASHWOOD

[@teoborges3949]

I'll kill both, because Enclave will be happy to know there's no more"Non-human's" on the Tenpenny Area.

[@ingasparrow]

I said this in a comment thread, but I'm making my own to read here: I think I have the answer as to why Roy is considered a "good" character and you get Evil Karma if you kill him. It's because the writers were trying to keep the aftermath of the peaceful ending a surprise. Knowing Roy and his friends were really Evil Karma characters right away would have lessened the impact of the discovery in the basement. The game wanted you to think you were being a horrible person because most players might have killed the Ghouls in their first playthrough. But due to the flaws of the Karma system, either the writers couldn't change Roy's alignment or simply forgot to.

[@menajack]

Interesting but the Karma system is pretty awkward. For example, Butch has a Good Karma. It is fun because we need to have a Neutral Karma for recruit him. And Benny has a Evil Karma, Both Ceasar and Mr. House have a Neutral Karma. Same for Arcade Gannon... No sense.

[@ingasparrow]

Mena Jack I agree the karma system is awkward, but that doesn't mean it can't be used to troll the player- which is what I think happened here. That said, I think Mr. House and Arcade Gannon having Neutral Karma makes sense. House does want to do good for the people of New Vegas. The problem is that he doesn't see the people living in this actual world. He doesn't see their struggles and he doesn't have any plans to help them in the short term. I would say he has good intentions, but is severely flawed. Arcade is a good person, but he has no qualms about going against the Followers' ideals if he thinks it's for the greater good. For example, he's more than glad to help cover up the murder of an NCR soldier in a certain quest.

[@nietzschesmoustache3585]

I think the writers are just anti-white, and this is an allegory for segregation.

[@jus7040]

@@nietzschesmoustache3585 yeah sure, as the surprise after the peaceful ending would support your theory...

[@JDizzle785]

@@nietzschesmoustache3585 why are there so many weird alt right comments in this comment section…

[@elementallynx493]

Herbert Daring Dashwood should of survived and made a episode of what happened

[@lanceuppercut6168]

That would've been pretty clutch! Maybe he even moves in with Three Dog or something :D

[@NA-xx5tz]

Second time I did the quest Herbert lived,I was cool with it.took me till the sixth to learn it was a glich.

[@richardlogue9770]

I was so disappointed the first time i played through this line. I was really jazzed that I found a peaceful solution. I got the residents to let the ghouls move in. The ghouls gave me that cool mask as a reward for my efforts. Then awhile later I came back to do some trading... and all the human residents had been murdered. To top it all off, the only humans to survive the slaughter are the bigots you managed to convince to leave. So frustrating and angering. I killed the ghouls and never came back. Wasteland justice? I don't know. It haunts me so.

[@richardlogue9770]

The second time I played through the game, I brokered the peace, but I killed Roy, Masters, and Bessie before they moved into the tower. The residents still end up dead. (Scripted event, I guess.) The third play through, I just decided not to complete the Tenpenny Tower line at all, and only went to the Tower for the Shoot 'Em in the Head quest.

[@TallCanDan02]

I remember when I was a kid my grandpa told me alot about WW2 and he told me that it was important to let people have their own opinions no matter how wrong or bigoted i thought they were, and he used an exapmle of thought policing in Nazi Germany. So when i first played through this quest i just thought "Well i guess these guys are entitled to their xenophobic beliefs even if they are wrong" so i decided to try to convince roy to find somewhere else to settle, but upon meeting him it was painfully obvious that he was a opportunistic asshole and his followers were just idiots so i killed Roy, and left the other two ghouls and never actually finished the quest.

[@ShasonEfen]

I did exactly the same thing, killed the ghouls and never went back, broke my heart!

[@theguywhoasked770]

i've met these ghouls they're civilized and pose no threat.

[@unknown_rdr]

Lora Elstad oh shit i fucked up

[@snortymcgout]

Dank Boi: Perfect profile pic for that comment 😂

[@__-ci7kf]

There is a real world modern equivalent to this situation...look in the US...forced diversity all the way to letting illegal immigrant criminals get away with their crimes give them sanctuary city, protecting them from federal law enforcement....the results are unmistakable...CHAOS...TIP ICE EVERY CHANCE you get

[@tombumk7443]

D'oh!

[@mrburke7481]

It’s Tenpenny’s bidding

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

Bessie: "Roy was right. This is the way to live." Wouldn't it be ironic if, after the ghouls murder all the human residents of Tenpenny Tower and take the tower for themselves, one huge apartment complex for just three ghouls (as the videos shows, they don't let the ferals make a lair inside, maybe outside like guard dogs), if then a whole group of human refugees came to their doors... or just settlers tired of planting mudfruit and living in pre-war ruins and being menaced by raiders... and asked to be let in, and the ghouls refused to let "smoothskins" in? In contrast to immortal ghouls, humans can feel heat and cold and thirst and can have children.

[@013wolfwarrior]

As I said it last time Roy is just like every other bandit, and deserves the bullet, and the fact that he's using the: "Im a ghoul and the mean bigots are opressing me" just makes me sick. Masters clearly knows Roy what is like, and iust like you said he's an enabler if he wants to follow him he wants go after him into hell, The ghoulette however, well she might be delusional, maybe in denial as part of a abusive relation ship (though theres no evidence for that) but again if she decides to step in our way, serving selfish reasons, we cant do but to defend ourselves. The karma in this quest is really bs, and the only way to make it sense would've if ultimately whatever decisions you'd, made you'd still end up with the same karma level as you started the quest, by getting and losing the same ammount as thing unfolded, well unless you did the obviously bad things. Edit another question is why cant you just tell the ghouls to move in to the underworld? Is Roy banned from there for beheaving like a bandit?

[@ihateants6832]

Post-apocalyptic sjw

[@johnmoo8072]

Gosh, I thought Killing Roy or everyone in the tower was dark. But the "peaceful" ending troubles me, I never got that to that point & didn't know that would happen. Geez, poor Dashwood and everyone that gave them a chance. Man, it makes me ponder of the "good" & "evil" of the fallout games (and maybe some stuff IRL) cuz geez, the two get blurred together sometimes Thanks Ox, I learned alot from this.

[@matthewomerza6499]

John Moo what I did was convince them to let the gouls in, then go back and talk to Roy, get the mask then kill him.

[@VynalDerp]

@@matthewomerza6499 Eh, I think just killing Roy is the best outcome. Less people die that way.

[@tomekjeziorski]

Nope. Even after killing Roy and Michael (he attacks you), and leaving only Bessie alive, when you return to the tower, every humans are dead.

[@dakarai47]

@Sith'ari Azithoth they bigots

[@brandoncreek5709]

Damn. I'm all for morally gray options, but when I played the "Peaceful" solution on my first playthrough and discovered what Roy had done, it made me sick to my stomach. After all that work to try and change people's minds and get them to come around about ghouls, Roy FINALLY has a chance to show people that ghouls aren't all violent, brainless zombies, he murders all of the poor people that were willing to open their doors, hearts and minds to him and his friends. I have no sympathy for someone that screams about bigotry, and then goes around to actively feed into the problem or turn around and propagate their own bigotry. If Roy really cared about ghoul bigotry, he would have been willing to make an example of himself to show others what a ghoul can really be. Instead, he takes advantage of the very people who let him in and were eager to give him and other ghouls a chance. It broke my heart, especially after hearing all of the nice things that the residents had to say about the ghouls, seeing real progress being made towards ending a long history of hate and fear. All for one greedy asshole to screw everything up after he had gotten exactly what he wanted. Roy's an idiot, a hypocrite and a murderer, and I'm happy to put a bullet in his head.

[@mansiselyn]

Roy Philips flawlessly portrays BLM

[@privatedonut2914]

@@mansiselyn Dude stop. As a non supporter of BLM even I fully understood that the rioting and looting was a small minority. Where I lived, all those protests were peaceful and they didn't give us any trouble. I do know a few who just use that an an excuse to be racist tho. And all racists no matter what colour deserve death. Just like those fools who raided our bloody Capital. They made all of use who are Republican look like monsters.

[@mansiselyn]

@@privatedonut2914 I said 5 words and you have a damn seizure

[@privatedonut2914]

@@mansiselyn A damn seizure? You clearly lack logic. I'm sick of imbeciles spreading misinformation and causing divide. Think before you type.

[@mansiselyn]

@@privatedonut2914 You say you are sick of imbeciles spreading misinformation, yet you falsely informed me that I clearly lack logic, which I do not do often. My original comment was written with comedic intentions. If you do not appreciate the type of comedy I do, you can shut up.

[@whitephoenix4230]

Originally whenever I played Fallout 3 (Which I now do through the mod Tale of Two Wastelands), I always sided with Roy and got him and the ghouls in through peaceful methods. But one day when I was playing TTW, I came back after about a week and found that Roy had murdered all the people in the tower anyways. When I saw this, it was like something inside my head just snapped and I immediately started killing the ghouls in the tower. Since then, even though they're bigoted as hell, I side with the tower residents because having your good deed thrown back in your face like that...well, IMO it calls for retaliation. Before that, I always played a good karma Lone Courier (since TTW makes you both the Lone Wanderer and the Courier, as they are the same person in that mod). But after that...I still play a good karma Lone Courier, but with some...grey choices.

[@luis-bx1me]

White Phoenix reality is grey .. The Best thing doesnt have to be a good one

[@whitephoenix4230]

+Luis 96 Yeah. Of course, it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do good things. But...the Vault Dweller from Fallout 1 said it the best: "Sometimes to do a good thing, you have to be a bad person."

[@luis-bx1me]

White Phoenix yes i Red it in another comment below yours.. well in the real world and the virtual one you have to look after yourself which means you have choiches to do. And they dont have to be always good or bad .. lets say that philosophy is all right either Rousseau or hobbes or Nietzsche, all is different variations of gray and nothing lives without struggle. For example for us humans to eat and live something must die, either animal or plant .. I would like to hear you about this even thinking its going to be really long and complex

[@Pauzix]

I also killed the ghouls in the tower after I found out that they killed the residents. And when I told this to other people I was called racist :D

[@whitephoenix4230]

+Luis 96 I happen to actually agree with that way of thinking. In terms of what you brought up, like for humans to eat and live, something be it animal or plant, must die. Take animals. We grow and raise them, they give us things like milk, pork, eggs, etc. And when they die, their final gift to us is themselves. Their meat. If they had lived a long and happy life, then I see that as a equivalent exchange. Same goes for plants. They grow, they offer us their fruit or vegetables they grow, and then they die. Life itself is a struggle. You go through good and bad, because life is never really simple. It's complicated. While some situations are more black and white than others, life itself is a grey. If that makes any sense.

[@TestECull]

I generally just leave this quest unfinished because there's no good way to end it. Truthfully, though, if it wasn't for Three Dog calling us Hitler Incarnate if we go No Russian on those ghouls, I'd probably waste them. They're raiders and they're only kept alive because I don't want to hear Three Dog speaking ill of me.

[@smsff7]

If you kill 3dog then he will never say anything bad about you

[@bozotheclown666]

TestECull yeah, this quest kinda sucks.

[@TexanTemplar]

Three dog is a sjw snowflake who doesn't look at the big picture.

[@TestECull]

@Ace Tex He does, though, unless the 'big picture' you're thinking about isn't a Capitol Wasteland that's not trying to kill itself every second of every day...

[@TexanTemplar]

TestECull should have reworded "big picture" to that he doesn't look deep enough into things. As he hates you for killing the ghouls when he hasnt looked at pro's and cons carefully enough. If three dog was in tempenny and he let them in, they still would have all been massacred by roy and his ghouls all the same. Maybe with the exeption of him but then he would've seen how wrong he was.

[@felmaraquino1204]

Most moral ending to this quest is not doing it at all.

[@juanjoseph]

* kill the raider ghouls

[@Da_Shark]

@Ornate Orator don't need it honestly ferals are some of the weakest enemies in the game...

[@johnyguitar258]

@@Da_Shark have you ever faced a feral ghoul reaver ? one of the hardest shit in game to kill and some times they gang up on you like 1 reaver 1 glowing and couple of others ghould mask is a life saver

[@Da_Shark]

@@johnyguitar258 nut up or shut up they just come at you tanking your bullets whip out something full auto and watch them melt

[@ahmetmoses555]

Smart thing, but not a solution

[@mitomidou]

First time I ran into this, I naively went with the diplomatic approach. Same thing surprised me when Tenpenny allowed the thing to begin with. Gotta say, it was also the first time I just straight out murdered every living thing in that tower out of a feeling of rage and righteous indignation. The sense of entitlement is staggering and I could not stand Roy's holier than thou crap. It's sad but I think I'd take Tenpenny over Roy any day. Had to sit away from the game for a while after that. Every time I replay the game, I just go with the kill the ghouls approach. Three Dog can say whatever he wants, he wasn't there. Truth resists simplicity.

[@johnrosie9769]

Mito Midou righteous indignation is the name of the spaceship that is captained by capt. Bucky O'Hare

[@concludedhail40]

1. Kill the ghouls 2. Kill Tenpenny and Mr Burke 3. Kill Three-Dog 4. Donate all the money from selling their stuff to the children of Atom. 5. Go for the happy ending with a positive plat through

[@SmithsInventory]

I'd argue it's more moral to kill the ghouls, the tower has it's bigots and people who are up their own rear end. But most of them can be convinced and become quite content with having the ghouls as residents. Whereas Roy & Micheal have no problem killing the residents in this scenario, acting as if they are superior. If anything they are also bigoted in this situation.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

You know, the game's writers did their best to present the anti-ghoul prejudiced handful of residents of the tower as decadent as possible (without explaining where they actually get their resources, caps and food from if all they do is stand around and talk fashion) and absurdedly prejudiced in the most petty way ("Ghouls are ugly and stink"), afraid that if they let ghouls into the tower they will get eaten by them. And then they get brutally murdered and eaten by feral ghouls at the order of a human-hating sentient "civilized" ghoul. So, it wasn't really a prejudice, was it, but actually quite sensible to fear those specific ghouls?

[@chakko007]

Yes, that is the worst possible outcome of an allegedly morally "good" decision. I don't know what the writers thought when they created that quest. Probably not much...

[@shadenox8164]

Uh no its still prejudice. They didn't base that judgement on the ghoul they never met, but just the fact he was ghoul. The fact he was a murdering psychopath wasn't because he's a ghoul.

[@fivebrosstopmos]

​@@shadenox8164When the ghouls you have seen are all feral or Roy, it's pretty justified.

[@amaevingketchup]

I salute to Herbert Daring Dashwood, my favorite character in all of Fallout 3

[@phantomvulpe791]

Asher Ketchup a shame he dies when I did the pacifist route

[@Deadsea_1993]

Actually this quest is a great one cause it shows that sometimes the shining beacon of good actions can be a lie. If we pay attention to Roy, he immediately says that his plan is to get ferals inside to slaughter the residents. That's evil and is why killing the ghouls isn't as evil as you think. His friend is happy to kill alongside Roy and Roy's wife pretends to be innocent, yet she is very evil and will fight you back rather than flee every time. Best way to end the quest is start an argument with Roy and act in self defense. Ignore the karma, losing vendors at the Tower isn't worth it. Chief always has a good weapon supply for sale.

[@cooperthehistoryguy1184]

I don’t get why you get bad karma for killing Roy I think that the best ending is killing the ghouls

[@phantomvulpe791]

Cooper the History guy Guess it means you are a bigot and a merciless killer. I always prefer the pacifist route so that the people will let the ghouls in

[@oxhorn]

Oooo. Please finish the video.

[@ohhellothere3217]

Dante Vera Spoiler Alert, Roy kills everyone

[@phantomvulpe791]

OH HELLO THERE I know. Did it on the pacifist route and saw the residents dead near a feral ghoul

[@ohhellothere3217]

"Pacifist" route

[@copyrightclaim3541]

I wish there was an option to tell the ghouls to go to the Underworld, sure its not 'Tenpenny Tower' but there are other ghouls there that most likely would welcome Roy and his gang. But there isn't such an option. In my game I chose to kill the ghouls and say "screw the karma system!" Besides, I'll just donate a bunch of water to the people outside of Megaton and Rivet city to rebuild my lost karma ;)

[@diplohamming1417]

water solves everything

[@EvelynnWinters2000]

The most moral solution is to not do the quest at all, that ways the tenpenny residents stay safe in the tower and Roy's ghouls stay safe in the metro It may not be the best outcome for either group but at least this way, neither of them have to die But, if you insist on doing the quest, then convincing the residents to allow it is the most moral way, because the Lone Wanderer has no idea that Roy is going to kill the Tenpenny residents. In my opinion, the morally good options don't take into account the outcome, only the prediction of what the outcome will be before the decision

[@chrisschoenthaler5184]

“Michael is not at the bar? Something must be terribly wrong!” I love how that’s the tipping point.

[@Deadsea_1993]

Lol. Ox is hilarious

[@ingasparrow]

Herbert "Daring" Dashwood can, once again, be instrumental in the downfall of a settlement. He's such a jinx

[@pandemonicpixie]

I appreciate you. Something about your consistent closing sentences to your videos sparks something kindred to watching Mr. Rogers. Like, wholesome and caring about your viewers. I really enjoyed the Tenpenny series while I had insomnia and anxiety moments to cope with this weekend/week. And I enjoy all of your other Fallout videos. I've learned so much about the lore that I skipped or didn't learn from previous fallout lore, because of your cohesive narration. Thank you for all you do.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

The problem of this quest is that the writers try too hard to draw analogies that don't work. *They try to present ghouls as "oppressed", when in reality non-feral ghouls in Fallout are _not oppressed_. They are merely marginalized for looking ugly; and because feral ghouls exist and people rightly fear them. Ghouls are not enslaved nor were they slaves in the past,* they don't get hunted or lynched automatically, not even by the BoS; equating them with real life minorities or disenfranchised ethnicities simply does not work as a narrative. *Society in Fallout is by necessity reduced to tribalism* of Factions and scattered settlements and raiding gangs. Even "towns" like Megaton or Diamond City have only a few dozen or few hundred residents at best; no national government exist anymore, no police force, no schools, no public roads and utilities system, social system, resource distribution system etc. People in Fallout's North America are not even organized on the level of feudalism anymore, they went back to tribalism. Ghouls are in fact immortal and immune to radiation, unable to starve, and don't get attacked by feral ghouls, and thus able to live comfortably in far more areas than the remaining human population! If anything, it's the unmutated humans who are a dying species, with shrinking populations constantly threatened by raiders, cannibals, supermutants, ghouls, mutated monstrous wildlife, pre-war killer robots, as well as radioactivity, starvation, illness, infertility.

[@oliveboi1474]

Herbert "Daring" Dashwood: He lived by the sword and died by the sword. May he be remembered in the radio broadcasts of his glory days.

[@christianjohnson5379]

That's of course only assuming that his death is canonical.

[@tncorgi92]

Aw, NOT poor Shakes the Bartender! Why?

[@prestontreglio4453]

Paul Drake He was kept alive he didn’t get killed in the ghoul ending

[@ladyj.9350]

I think Roy played you. I can’t imagine he moved into the tower without plans of taking over

[@vanilla9683]

After going through the trouble of trying to come to a peaceful solution and Roy still killed everyone, I rage killed all the ghoul residents

[@catherinering2079]

I don’t think I actually ever went back to Tenpenny after the ‘peaceful’ option. Seeing this video enlightens me to the many times I thought I was doing good but actually I wasn’t. My mind is blown. I can’t believe it. I wish I had never helped Roy and his ghouls.

[@cyrosphere0154]

I always thought the karma system was annoying

[@joltzcookie]

cillian smith yee

[@ihateants6832]

Especially in this quest

[@ArgentDeer]

From a game play stand point, I killed all the ghouls...since it was easiest. From a moral standpoint, killing Roy is the best choice in my opinion. I disagree with the ghoul bigotry displayed by the Tenpenny residents, but that doesn't mean that the good ones have to suffer because of the bigoted ones. What Roy did is just wrong. He was the one who was harassing the tower residents to start, the one who actively sought to make it a ghoul tower despite being accepted by the good residents. He backstabbed them. The good tenants didn't really deserve it.

[@rickcoona8368]

It's Raider Ghouls Like ROY that Cause problems for other Non Feral Ghouls, Shoot him in the head and be done with it their attitude Reminds Me is SJW's and They would act just like ROY if given any REAL POWER; Forewarned is Forearmed, Folk’s.

[@gtshawn]

Haha hemorrhoid haha nice one Ox, I can't stop laughing!!! :D

[@hatguyfan22]

I love how you brought attention to the tub in episode one and made it more important now. I also love how you narrate the disappearance of the humans. I can feel the tension and climbing worry!

[@gpalmerify]

As for the moral solution for this quest "Strange game, the only winning move is not to play" - War Games

[@James-mi5qt]

25:00 that whole conversation reminds me of super mutant talk. "Useless man!" 😂

[@amorasilverspark]

There was one detail that was missed here. If you blow up Megaton and use the player home in Tenpenny, then letting the ghouls become the new residents (peacefully of violently), over time all the ghoul residents do turn feral and make your home no longer safe and you get locked out permanently! The first time I did this was on a PS3 version of the game and lost a ton of unique loot I collected. I had to start over completely due to not having backup saves...

[@Aaron14LifeZZZ]

Amora Silverspark interesting

[@ingasparrow]

Amora Silverspark Have you ever replicated that? Can anyone else confirm it? It's not that I don't believe you. I like the idea of it being true, but proof would be good.

[@arbiter-]

That doesn't happen.

[@the_DeadEye]

Are you sure? Because Roy kills them before they can turn into a ghouls. when i first saw tenpeny tower full of ghouls, thats what i thought too. Ghouls bit them or radiation made everyone else ghouls. But then i realized the names, and the bodies in the basement.

[@LunaTulpa]

Amora Silverspark yiff me

[@AtomicDenson]

Let’s be honest here, this quest is a lose lose situation when you look at it. You lose if you side with the ghouls, and you lose if you side with the humans at tenpenny tower. So, aside from ignoring the quest altogether, you can’t really win. But if you JUST gotta do the quest, I would say if the quest made it to where you could only kill Roy and bring the other non feral ghouls to tenpenny tower, it would be a great quest. As the quest is now, your better off ignoring it, or siding with the humans and not thinking about what would have happened if you allowed the ghouls into the tower.

[@348joey]

I have a theory about nonferals going feral. It might require constant exposure to radiation. Sure, they're "immune" to radiation, but you don't see many of them in irradiated areas. This begs the question of why none of them have walked through every ghoul-infested radioactive area and taken anything they want. Maybe radiation only speeds up the process, but there might be a connection to it and going feral.

[@CollinMac96]

That's no theory, you are right on the money. They are immune to the effects of rads but the more radiation they take, the more their brains decay. When their brains decay to the point of no return, they turn into ferals 🏃

[@lanceuppercut6168]

Hence why glowing ones are generally wallowing in highly irradiated areas. I'm thinking about it now, shouldn't their brain eventually decay to the point where basic function becomes impossible and pretty much die?

[@nekoali2]

It's not a proven thing since there has never been an official statement given as to why some ghouls turn feral and some do not, but it is the most likely answer. Like most things with ghouls though it's not a hard and fast rule. Jason Bright was a non-feral glowing one, the only one I'm aware of. Both he and his followers were exposed to great amounts of radiation getting the rockets ready to launch. And the Great Beyond was supposed to be filled with radiation as well, but they didn't fear it. On the other hand, you do find a number of feral ghouls at Repconn, possible Bright followers that went mad? In Fallout 4 you find a ghoul doctor living in a radiation filled crater who is not feral. In the overwhelming number of cases though when you find ghouls living around radiation they are feral, and non feral ghouls as a rule don't live in irradiated areas. Though you think it would be a safe place for them, since humans wouldn't want to live there. So the theory that it's continued exposure to radiation that causes ghouls to go feral is a good working theory.

[@brandonlyon730]

That's probably why we never see civilized glowing ones with the exception of the one cult leader in New Vegas

[@lanceuppercut6168]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Bright. I think he also doesn't give out rads, which would probably explain why that human hasn't turned ghoul. Maybe he has a thick skull and somehow has been protected from the usual amount of brain turning to mush or something XP

[@alize0623]

I only killed the Ghouls because I absolutely loved Dashing. If I could’ve talked him into leaving, I would’ve done it. It did kill me a little to kill Betty.

[@dr.amazaier1772]

I remember that on my good character I did the peaceful solution but when I found out he kills the residents anyway I thought "I shouldn't have let Theese guys in the first place."

[@mephistophelesthesilentchi3446]

I always killed the ghouls because the tenpenny residents, bigoted or not, earned their keep. And therefore shouldn't be forced to tolerate a penniless, pugnacious thug like Roy and his two yes men. Also 700 caps doesn't hurt...

[@mrhale9440]

RAGING JUSTICE craving

[@nekoali2]

I laughed so much at that line. :)

[@youtubeminecraftwatcher6860]

VENGEANCE FROM THE GRAVE

[@SmallCactus22]

He had to stop himself from saying justice boner lol

[@JerichoDeath]

I always thought that leaving behind the karma system was one of the better decisions for Fallout 4.

[@limitedbytimee7103]

JerichoDeath a lot of hardcore obsidian fans really hated the decision

[@JustKelso1993]

@@limitedbytimee7103 Not shocking. Obsidian fans are whiney a lot of the time.

[@mjkrh]

I don't think so.... The Karma system is flawed.... But it adds to the game so much......

[@hashly8521]

karma is stupid, shame they got rid of reputation tho

[@gracek3846]

Glad you got it to finally work, Ox.

[@unknown_rdr]

Grace I Guess can u get the ghoul mask by just killing roy

[@Johnny-ho1vh]

You *GOTTA* make a shirt of Irving Cheng saying: ''Hey, Comrade!''

[@Bad_Place_Alone]

I’ll never forget the first time I finished this mission. I thought I’d secured peace and we could all be friends, but then the realisation started to set in. I spoke to Roy, went mad, killed him, then proceeded to murder every ghoul in the tower, not loot anything, leave, and never come back. I felt sick to my stomach that I facilitated this. What an amazing quest! With most other playthroughs, I just butcher the trio and collect my caps. The mask is overrated anyway and to hell with 3Dog calling me a scumbag.

[@themessianicminarchist1454]

I did the peaceful resolution the first time I played. The end reveal also caused me to have unyielding rage.

[@thekite2711]

Wasn't the bigotry against Ghouls in Diamond City mainly enabled and enacted by the Institute through the Synth McDonough, tho? Or at least an initiative of the Synth McDonough at least~

[@JustCallMeEm.]

The Kite My thinking is that he banned ghouls because they couldn’t be replaced with synths

[@oxhorn]

It was McDonough who banned the ghouls, but I don;t recall there ever being an "Institute reason" for him doing so. In stead, I always understood that some residents just didn't like ghouls, and McDonough banned them to appease these residents.

[@thekite2711]

I agree that the people of DC may not have liked ghouls from the start, but the campaign to throw them out has been started by McDonough; In Hancock's dialogue, he mention "not recognizing his brother" who had a very strange and disturbing smirk as he was sending the ghouls out of DC, essentially condemning them to die So in likelihood he had been replaced by the Institute by then. benjamin ash might be onto something by ghouls not being replaceable by synths; We never see ghoul synths, after all. Addendum: Or it may as well be just that he exploited people's hatred of Ghouls to be elected, as he needed to be in power to do the Institute's bidding.

[@nekoali2]

From various dialog about the incident, especially what you hear from Hancock, there was a fair bit of ghoul resentment in Diamond City. McDonough used and flammed the fan of that hatred to get himself elected as mayor and then had the ghouls thrown out of the city. There is a fair bit we'll never know of the situation though... Was McDonough a synth when he ran for mayor? Or did the Institute replace him after he became the mayor? Hancock's story makes it seem like the new Mayor wasn't his real brother. But we'll never know the truth unless someone from the story team confirms it.

[@Yea-okk]

Ox, you are 100% correct in your analysis of the morality involved in this quest. I skipped it in my play-through for the same reasons.

[@spiritedtreasureST]

46:02 I heard a female ghoul ask Wiseman at the slog in fallout four for some perfume. And he had to gently explain to her that perfume would not take the smell away.

[@spiritedtreasureST]

In my game I killed the ghouls

[@ToasteeCrunch]

Wow these videos are fantastic. Had literally spent the entire day going through all the options of the quest when I could have just watched this video Can’t wait to see the others

[@Scuzz1204]

51:42 Ox you missed the Lucky Shades.

[@oxhorn]

I'll have to go back--thanks!

[@Kimosabes2hot]

3:10 "All The Other Kids With The Pumped Up Kicks You Better Run Better Run, Outrun My Gun"

[@VargasJulio39]

I love how the overall message of this quest is "The Bigots were right."

[@IronPiedmont]

Wait a minute. Even if we go the peaceful route, Roy kills them anyway... ...what, what have I done?

[@collinoaks]

I hoped the ghoul mask would add special speech options for the player. I’m certain talking to a guy in a mask of rotting flesh would unnerve some people, make them more easily intimidated, etc.

[@StargazerSkyscraper]

Mad respect for you, Oxhorn. I love that you take the time to break down the morality behind in-game choices rather than just state your own opinion or breeze past a sensitive topic. Video games, like art, are a great way to get us to think about ourselves and the world around us, and your videos are the easiest way to prove that point to any doubters who'd say otherwise. Side note: Your videos are also great tools for treating anxiety. I can't tell you how many times that perfect diction of yours has lulled me to sleep and inner peace.

[@KestralKuthule]

but if you choose the "peaceful" ending only the bigots survive

[@UltimateGamerCC]

and that's only Ling and Montenegro if Millicent sees that love letter...

[@viniandrade163]

Truly one of the most memoriable and fun location and quests in a game Ive ever had, starting with blowing up megaton... I wanted that sniper rifle soooo bad!

[@enclaveleader6245]

Oxhorn the best part is to convince the residents of tenpeny tower to let them in and also about Susan lancanster give her to Paradise falls. Go back to Roy philips get ghoul mask. Then finally kill ROY AND MICHAEL. BESSIE CAN LIVE.

[@rtechie]

Enclave Leader I don’t think that works. I think if Roy and Michael are killed Bessie won’t go to the tower.

[@ShadowDog-tq3yu]

Hmm i think i do that to, i dont need the metchants there..

[@ShadowDog-tq3yu]

But i think bessie sadly wont live in tenpenny tower

[@ShadowDog-tq3yu]

WAIT, it doesnt work all people still die and yeah... Now there is no one more... And i got some free loot :D Jk, i loaded a save if killing doesnt work i might as well just let live... Or maybe not i got the ghoul mask(which i wanted REALLY badly) i can just let them dead... Yeah... Maybe, i mean tenpenny is dead hmmm... Idk i mean i hate to let the citizens die by the ghouls(whom i actually killed but it did not work) buut i NEED that ghoul mask.. Sooo i will just let them kill all citizens and cry myself to sleep, yeah that will work D;

[@wouldntyouliketoknow3137]

I find it appalling that the moral option is to force the people of tenpenny to let the gouls in to their sanctuary or die rather than convince the gouls they would be happier living amongst people who want to be around them, thats the truely Peaceful option. Maby the gouls should go to the underworld.

[@boriscola4121]

Bethesda logic Force someone out of their home into a dangerous wasteland? ‘You gained karma’

[@harlequinhunter5914]

Update: I have done a non-violent approach. Roy and his friends moved in. And they killed all the resistance. After the quest is done after waiting 24 hours on stand-by soft save. So, I reloaded the game. kicked the unwanted residents, told Tenpenny, and gave me 500 caps. and went to tell them they could move in. Roy gave me the mask. Then I killed all 3. When told Gustavo and gave me 700 caps quest ended. Thinking that it would be fine. But the game automatically replaces the normal residents for ghouls, and you don't see normal residents with ghouls. Just ghouls. It's like they get killed anyway. After killing Roy and his friends. No dashwood, no guards. No humans. Just empty Tenpenny with just ghouls. The place feels dead.

[@CyberRyder]

Yeah, It sucks that we get bad Karma from killing Roy and his murder allowing ghouls. That should be The Moral option. I agree with you, Oxhorn

[@jordyn814]

What would happen if you convinced them to live together and THEN killed Roy before he could kill the guests?

[@thekingisdead6411]

The ghouls are essentially raiders, so going all BoS on them is cool in my book. Karma be damned.

[@obardo9197]

When a quest in a game create a ethic discussion of almost an hour...u know this game worth your time and dedication

[@jimfichter7246]

I blow up Megaton, then I let the ghouls in Tempenny tower and finaly I killed every ghouls in it... That's how the wasteland works Roy !! LOL

[@LeoArctica]

''At this point I had a raging justice...craving...*Blast's Roy in the back of the head*'' LOL that made me laugh so hard XD I love how outraged you sounded in this near the end Oxhorn ^^

[@oscaralcaraz3]

My first play through, I did the peaceful way. After Roy betrayed my trust, every play through. I took Roy and his friends out. Just don't like the fact he betrayed my trust.

[@joshgomez726]

I don't know why but I laughed so hard when you asked Shakes about the ghouls. 😂😂😂

[@rubenashleywesterhoff2664]

why not include the comments of 3dog on GNR aboud you'r game choices

[@mr.bootleg424]

"At this point, I had a raging justice... **don'tsaybonerdon'tsaybonerdon'tsayboner** craving."

[@TallCanDan02]

Personally i think the residents of tenpenny are entitled to hold their xenophobic beliefs even if i disagree with them. They own the tower and its neither Roy nor the lone wonderers place to police their thoughts. If they dont want to let ghouls into their tower then so be it. Roy is only entitled to the justice he can deliver.

[@heyrosiebee]

"michael is not in the bar???!!!! something must be terribly wrong" lmao

[@FryingPan1812]

Sure, there isn't a good solution. BUT there is a *Final Solution* Let the ghouls in peacefully. Let the events transpire. Kill everyone in the post-Ghoul takeover of Tenpenny Tower. There, everyone associated with the quest is dead (named and unnamed).

[@TeCHnORiOT]

Then take it for yourself!

[@StrickenWithFear]

Comrade Lenin That's...terrible.

[@thaneofwhiterun3562]

Charon: Over here! Michael Masters:Where? *get's shot* 0:43

[@asmodeusazarak]

It's possible to come to a quasi "good" solution. I convinced the residents to let the ghouls move in, and followed Roy up to Tenpenny's suite. I saw him kill Tenpenny and killed him for it. Michael turns hostile, and you have to kill him, but the humans live, and the other ghouls are still able to live there. This probably isn't so much an official solution, as a freezing of the progression at the point where the ghouls move in, but before Roy kills anyone past Tenpenny, however it was more palatable than the other solutions.

[@tombumk7443]

That's what I'm thinking. Haven't tried it myself because I wasn't aware that Roy killed Tenpenney so soon after getting in, but that seems the best way to do this.

[@JDizzle785]

This actually doesn’t work. If you do this and then return a few days later, the human residents will be dead anyway and Bessie will still give the dialogue option that implies Roy killed them, when he of course couldn’t have. Trust me, I tried :/

[@postertape]

Oxhorn, while I don't always agree, I love the fair and nuanced way you break down moral dilemmas. So many people cannot see complex issues through every pertinent facet and I love that you do...been waiting for you to vid up this quest forever!

[@JohnRRyder]

*Begins laughing like a mad man* Aaaah yes, Tenpenny Tower...the quest that continues to haunt me to this day. Nothing like being scarred when I was younger for doing the "peaceful resolution" option, only to discover that sometimes...peace is not always the end of a problem.

[@kristophsams5036]

And this is why the Karma System in the Fallout Universe is flawed and therefore unnecessary. Sure you can try to lead a good life in the wasteland, but its almost never black and white, right and wrong, good or bad. It is however an ever struggle to walk the line between the and stay in the gray area. Remember the famous proverb: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[@BrickTamlandOfficial]

it's weird because your uploads do not show this video there but when i click part 2 i can get to this video using the up next section on the right side of that page. dang it youtube!

[@MintyCow101]

i really wish fallout 3 had more options and outcomes in the quests, i feel like there are so many other things we could do.

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737]

I don't think a good karma character would kill all the ghouls unless he knew what they were going to do which he can't unless you played this quest before which I think breaks role playing because there's no way your character could know what was going to happen just you personally so I think what good karma characters should do is the neutral option then deliver justice to roy. the human residents end up dead but the only way to save them is (as far as your character knows) murder ghouls who only want to survive

[@oxhorn]

But we do know what they are planning before finishing the quest. Roy tells us that his grand plan is to break into the tower and release ferals into it, killing everyone. He tells us that the first time we meet him in the tunnels. That is plotting mass murder.

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737]

Oxhorn Oh yeah that is true though I ment we didn't know he was going to murder all of the human residents anyway when we brought "peace" between them

[@JerichoDeath]

We also know what type of person Roy is, and Oxhorn gave plenty of reasons not to go along with him that had nothing to do with what he does in the end.

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737]

JerichoDeath So you would murder him and the ghouls for just being shady? And do it for a guy who openly nukes towns?

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

"I don't think a good karma character would kill all the ghouls unless he knew what they were going to do which he can't unless you played this quest" No. Roy tells us plainly at least _twice_ that he plans to kill everyone in the tower, before he does it. We get plenty of hints as to his character. Bessie also tells us that Roy has killed lots of people in the past, although she doesn't say if that was before he became a ghoul or afterwards. The world of Fallout is not democratic or inclusive, it is tribal, every faction and settlement protecting itself. Unmutated humans may in fact be a minority as far as population sizes go, if you look at the number of supermutants and ghouls running around; though supermutants and ghouls can't breed they are immortal. And if you strive to "roleplay", then you should keep in mind, the Courier in Fallout 3 was raised in a Vault, while the Lone Survivor in F4 was born in the pre-war pseudo-1950s Fallout world and raised in a Cold War us-vs-them mentality. As a human, the player character should be inclined to protect other humans first, and trust ghouls, supermutants and synths on an individual basis. So if you think the game wants you to protect the ghouls because they're a an "oppressed minority", you are actually projecting your own RL values onto the character.

[@marinettedupain-cheng1168]

I have delt with some bugs in the beginning of fallout 3 one of them was when u enter megaton w the vault 101 jumpsuit on Lucas Simms remains quiet without reconsidering ur from the vault and instead of him coming up too u to begin the quest the power of the atom u need to talk to him

[@williamlien8291]

@Oxhorn Hey Oxhorn! I loved the video, and the Ghoul mask is one of my favorite clothing items in Fallout 3 I use it all the time. So In my opinion, I think the most moral outcome of the Tenpenny Tower quest is to evict the ghoul bigots, but then kill Roy and the other ghouls. With Roy and his other ghouls gone, and the ghoul bigots away, hypothetically the Tenpenny Tower residents would be able to allow more peaceful ghouls to live in the tower. That way, the people at Tenpenny aren't killed for their kindness by Roy, and hopefully there could be more appreciative ghouls that respect the humans there as well. It's a shame that Bessie Lynn and Michael Masters die, because of Roy's prejudice. Michael Masters is a pre-war scientist, he would be instrumental in a society like at Tenpenny's. Meanwhile Bessie Lynn has a certain naivety, and doesn't how to protect herself. She's a simple woman that wants to be loved and appreciated in a society. Michael does admit he made some sacrifices in his past of a scientist but I think he could do more ethical work. Even though Bessie stands by Roy and is subservient to him, I feel like she doesn't have a prejudiced agenda against humans. The Tenpenny Tower quest is an interesting conundrum dealing with racism, poverty, and choosing which decision is the best for everyone. I mean the ghoul bigots are rich enough to live at Tenpenny, it makes sense they could live somewhere else that doesn't allow ghouls like Rivet City. Another example is that they could leave the Capital Wasteland with armed guards and a caravan. The ghoul bigots are willing to let innocent, disenfranchised ghouls die despite them having enough caps to live at Tenpenny Tower, because they are just ghouls is terrible. It's understandable why people might not be willing to live with a group of people who have rotting skin, and do slowly become feral. Although it's not okay to leave people to die in the wasteland because they look different. Roy is also just as bad as the ghoul bigots. He is prejudiced against humans, and when he does get the chance to represent how ghouls aren't terrible monsters, he kills Alistair Tenpenny. Tenpenny isn't that good of a person either, nevertheless, the man let Roy and his friends live in his own tower, and is killed because of a "disagreement"? Which may or may not be true, but then proceeds to kill all the other human residents, because "they had it coming"? If it wasn't for those people that he killed he wouldn't be living in the tower in the first place! It's not okay to hate a group of people soley on their differences, and it's downright evil to kill a group of people that showed you kindness. So that's why I think the best course of action is to evict the ghoul haters and then kill Roy and his followers. Even though the bigots will have to live elsewhere (they're rich they'll find a way), and you hate to to kill two good ghouls and one evil one; that in my opinion is the best solution. Getting rid of the ghoul bigots peacefully and preventing innocent people from being killed by a ghoul just as prejudiced towards humans. What are your thoughts?