Why the Institute is Evil - A Moral Study in Fallout 4

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[@Aulsalt]

Just if the minutemen could use teleportation. They could actually defend people at a minute’s notice.

[@solojo13]

Then they could be known as the Secondmen! ;)

[@thepheonix81]

@@solojo13 the insta-men

[@jacksonb.valentine8208]

It’d be great if you could be the director of the institute and the general of the minutemen and put that in place headcannon. Oh wait.

[@krystalhummel351]

By the way i have another settlement who needs your help.

[@captainmanatee9633]

You know who can defend people at a minutes notice The republic of Dave

[@LGDXJawsdakiller]

The Institute being the only faction with access to toilet paper is more relevant now than ever

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

LGDXJawsdakiller LMFAO But I doubt the coronavirus would spread so far in a sparsely-populated wasteland.

[@gatekeepingwarlock9604]

"What the fuck is toilet paper??"

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

@@gatekeepingwarlock9604 Lmfao

[@aurthormaxson2287]

A full suit of power armor is better than toilet paper. Change my mind

[@LGDXJawsdakiller]

@@aurthormaxson2287 WHOA there buddy, no need for such explicit racism.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

The Sole Survivor: "How did you do all this?" The Institute: "The secret ingredient is *crime."*

[@TimTime10]

Oh ho ho, that gave me a laugh.

[@huhjalapeno7469]

@@TimTime10 u santa?😂😂

[@TimTime10]

@@huhjalapeno7469 nope, just insane.

[@dfailsthemost]

Haha

[@johnfulkrod9596]

I saw an article that said something like this: "The Institute is not evil because they are scientists and they can use technology to do good, and if people could stop fearing them maybe they'd see that they are the Commonwealth's best hope" They have advanced technology, but that had a choice of whether to do good or bad. They chose bad. The reason why people fear them is because Gen 3 synths are indistinguishable from a human and can infiltrate large settlements like Diamond City. This also means that they can kidnap people, and replace them with a synth duplicate. In the newspaper or one of the loading screens you can see that a stranger came to a bar, murdered the bartender, and went on a killing spree. When he finally got killed, he was revealed to be a synth. Now, people start fearing the Institute because that doesn't sound like a friendly first time with Gen 3 synths.

[@newperve]

"Murdered? I'm not so sure about that." She was shot in the head while trying to prevent someone kidnapping her child. Pretty sure that's murder. It wasn't even necessary. It would have been easy to persuade her to come with Kellog. A few words about how they're evacuating one by one and she needs to go with him would work. But they didn't want her. So even if she had let them take Sean she'd be put back in the fridge, a fridge that was bound to fail eventually. They were condemning everyone in that Vault to death by leaving them.

[@philipwrighton]

They could've easily masquerade themselves as Vault Tec

[@Deadsea_1993]

The predecessor to Father planned all of this. Kellog was told what to do and he followed orders as the predecessor knew that the parent would retaliate and die and fuel the other to seek revenge. Sean would soften Kellog up and this would lead to his demise in due time by us. Kellog was a useful tool to be used and thrown away when not in use. That is how Institute sees us.

[@yeetyeet-qm5yx]

she was shot in the guts, not the head but its still murder also they made the cryopods fail intentionally all execpt the sole survivor's cryopod

[@newperve]

@@yeetyeet-qm5yx Yeah which is a strange thing. I mean why not let all the cyropods fail? He said the SS was a "backup" but what's wrong with the rest of them being backups? There is something about the SS DNA that they wanted.

[@andron7108]

Shit - he could've even butted her face with his revolver and stunned her - but he chose the cynical option

[@Alex_FRD]

The Institute is the "best hope for humanity" that spends all its time and resources building robot gorillas and plastic laser guns.

[@looniper3551]

... as opposed to handing Raiders advanced tech and watching them kill everyone else in the Commonwealth. ;) If they share their tech, it ends up in the hands of everyone out there. And Gunners outnumber the "good" population, with raiders vastly outnumbering Gunners. So... will Raiders likely be using that advanced tech to make fake gorillas? Or will they be building bombs and guns, and making plans to use them?

[@mcbadrobotvoice8155]

Looniper institute weapons are kind of trash

[@matrixmirage2148]

(drunk) _Is thissss where I can pick up a uhh... _*_*hic*_*_ LASER GUN?_ (Fallout New Vegas)

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

@Mystic Random Guy Dear Lord, the same "the player can be the leader" argument. I can tell you that reforming the Institute leads to infighting and fragility, defeating the purpose. The Institute's foundations were parasitic to begin with, as they derived power from manipulating governments with Synth imposters. They must be destroyed to prevent greater collective fragility.

[@SvenTviking]

mc bad robot voice Very light, so you can carry much more ammo. Only good thing I can say about the institute.

[@DrDeathpwnsu]

Honestly I kind of got distracted by the fact you killed a legendary enemy without looting it. Your argument makes sense but I don't know if I can trust you upon witnessing that.

[@reptiles3244]

I do it especially if my inventory is full of other legendary weaponry

[@reptiles3244]

Hell i got a 2 shot hunting rifle as my first legendary weapon and it having 100 damage with modifications made i was killing everything in 2 shots

[@marekant7776]

Yeah, also he just walked right past a fusion core 13:36!

[@Blexxor12]

Explosive Legendary Effect automatic weapons are king Kneecapper Legendary Effect automatic weapons are great early game. Just make the thing youre shooting immobile and then finish it off

[@grimlocktv3169]

Only a synth doesn't loot bodies of its victims

[@krombopulosmicheal2436]

The institute was basically another vault tec in the making...

[@benjijacobs2049]

Mythical Mango I have a theory actually that the institute has people who were originally with vault Tec explaining why they knew about vault 75 and vault 111

[@raflamar4146]

The Institute and Vault-Tec are totally separate. As of F76 we know that their Overseers and scientists and staff were taught at the University in Morgantown. So it’s highly unlikely that anyone of Vault-Tec was among the original members of the Institute. Secondly, the Institute could’ve known about the Vaults like anyone else. From visiting the Vaults themselves to ancient terminals or data we seem in Fallout 3 with the Vault-Tec Terminal at the Citadel. And as for the very beginning of the game the Institute had visited and interfered with Vault 111. There’s no reason to say that they haven’t involved themselves with other Vaults out there. But since they are mostly concerned about themselves, I’d bet that any information that they’d have on any Vault other than 111 would be from their synths posing as humans. Who are likely to hear about things and report them back to the Institute. Where they’ll keep it in mind. And as we all know, they rarely take over any locations up on the surface. Only those that are least likely to interfere with the outside worlds common populace. Vaults are too obvious a location and so that’s why we don’t find any synths in control of any of the Vaults. Another theory is that Father, having been stolen from the Sole Survivor whilst in Vault 111 might have had a personal interest on the subject of Vaults.

[@JJ-bi5qx]

I agree

[@tungnse]

@@raflamar4146 You missed the entire point of the post, I feel sorry for your wall of text.

[@looserdruid6434]

Mythical Mango not really

[@raidenwesterman4479]

If I remember correctly. In the mission where you go into Kellogg's mind. You hear him talk about why he thought it was odd that the institute turned life support off on all the Vault 111 survivors except for you. They killed everyone in there for literally no reason

[@Crying_dog]

They were a threat to humanity.

[@Aleainctaest]

I believe t\you will find from reading ll the other cryotubes that the occupants of most were murdered by the Institute opening and messing with the power causing catastrophic failure of the life support.

[@greenspiraldragon]

The institute are even more phsycotic than Kellog.

[@sub_zero8495]

Because it's all part of the plan. From the other comments, I've come to the simple conclusion that father/Shaun/Director wanted you (SS) to find the Institute and become it's leader. It knew that by taking Shaun then you as a parent will stop at nothing until you can find your children and keep them safe. It's an instinct every parent has. And by having Shaun as director should allow you as his father to see the Institute from a perspective different compared to the other factions in game. Atleast by having Shaun, you'd think twice before blasting the entire Institute with laser guns. Having Shaun as director and pushing SS as his parent to be the next director also has it's psychological weight which increases the possibility of SS becoming director. It's simple psychology basically. Exploiting the natural instincts of a parent to benefit their own goal. That's only my conclusion tho. Others might have a different view

[@duncanharrell5009]

@@sub_zero8495 I still think they could have made the Institute look less moronic if they simply had the guy at the terminal shout to Kellogg he can barely keep the ancient Vault's systems running and to hurry up taking Shaun. Have Nate or Nora actually get violent in keeping Shaun away from the Institute lady and Kellogg decides to speed up the process by good old blaming. There. Now we have the other Vault occupants dead for a not stupid reason and shooting Nora or Nate looks slightly less psychopathic.

[@TheAmethysta7]

Just imagine... the Institute could very well release hundrets of Preston Garveys into the world. That's a danger I'm not willing to face. The Institute must be stopped.

[@bigchungus1360]

The most terrifying thing really sing a bunch of Harambes on the world And then making the pack of Raiders of them down and then doing it again

[@tdoyr2119]

I’ll mark it on your map.

[@tdoyr2119]

Just imagine, you just hear a small whisper of, “there is a settle that needs help” then out of nowhere, you see an army of Preston Garveys screeming, “ILL MARK IT ON YOUR MAP!” That, would be truly scary.

[@blestop5998]

Your pip-boy would be full of quests

[@benjijacobs2049]

Didn’t they release a Preston Garvey in a random encounter? Or was that just a person dressed as Preston, either way Preston must be only Preston because only he’s allowed to send in settlements

[@biostemm]

I really dislike how you can't take over leadership of the Institute, then enact changes to make it, well, a not-evil organization...

[@ZarPof]

I know. I did that in my head. With minor changes it could be great. I thought, since I am the minuteman general I'll have them give the institute raw resources and they give the minutemen GMOs to survive the wasteland, immunity to synths and maybe even back up. The minutemen could also back up synths if needed for some special mission. Prisoners sentenced to capitol punishment for crimes could go to the institute. Bam! Everything is going smooth in a single decade. The commonweath is fully united and a thriving civilization in 2 decades, and it gauntness that the institute can't get wiped out in 1 attack. Everyone wins. And all they must do is join hands just a little bit.

[@animasaurus2007]

That's true with all of the factions, you are a pawn, it's as simple as that. Even with the minutemen, hey GENERAL, go do stuff, basically. Everything the minutemen has built and achieved was made by one person only, the protagonist. The rest are lying back enjoying their time off, doing jack shit. The BOS are like, do what we want or else. The railroad are even worse, I ignored them for a while and when I decided I wanted to join them, they were like, nah, we can't trust you now, for no reason. The institute is the same, you are a director now, but guess what, you have 0 power to do anything and change anything. It's like a telltale game, an illusion of choice. And in the end the question is, how do you want to fuck over the commonwealth? The minutemen get disbanded after your death because they are useless, a large part of them possibly becoming bandits. The institute starts gassing the surface and wiping out everyone with their synths. The Brotherhood takes all of the commonwealths stuff and enforces martial law. Wiping out anyone that doesn't cooperate. Pick your poison. The railroad is a faction that basically falls apart the moment you kill the institute, they have won, they no longer have a goal. Victory defeats them.

[@ZarPof]

Anim Asaurus Wow... that's a very dark and morbid way to look at the world. I like it. I really do. I feel all tingly, I have seen everything you've mentioned and thought all the thoughts, I've just never strung them together how you just did. Thank you. That means the only 2 factions with ANY sort of longevity is the Institute and the Brotherhood. If the Railroad wins they dissolve, if the minutemen win they fall apart without the only guy who does everything. So the only 2 factions that exist independent the protagonist is the Institute and the Brotherhood. Which for some reason are at odds even though they're just different sides of the same coin. Collect knowledge, hoard it at all other's expense. The Institute scientists are the brotherhood's scribes, and the synths are the knights, the coursers are the paladins. They're identical.

[@animasaurus2007]

Well yes and no, throwing away absolutely everything else they do, the brotherhood hoards while the institute invents. The way they use technology is however no secret :D

[@ZarPof]

Anim Asaurus Yeah, I suppose the Brotherhood is practical and the Institute is not. The institute won't gain or lose anything if the entire commonwealth is destroyed. The Brotherhood wouldn't loose as much as the Minutemen but they do still live there so they have a bit of a vested interest. I think what the Institute really needs is an above ground ally. An ally that gives them vested interest in above ground happenings. That'd stop a lot of the atrocities, or at least limit them to 'bad guys'. The Minutemen or even possibly the Brotherhood would make a good above ground ally that the Institute could provide tech and tools and they provide raw resources and willing participants in research (so they don't have to kill people to research pumpkins or whatever).

[@johnwinters8099]

Oxhorn, the institute also could have easily supplied power to the entire commonwealth with the reactor, deployed synths to repair and clean out buildings and begin rebuilding settlements. During which the scientists could've set up hospitals to cure radiation sickness and farms full of non radiated foods. This is how the "institute ending" should have been.

[@fishnutter5219]

I'd have loved to see an end-game that gives you the option to reform The Institute and set them to the task of rehabilitating the commonwealth landscape...

[@dataumbreon]

also that the institute weapons are plastic cheap mass produced crap like the gen 1 and 2 synths and had they put more then what they can produce in the institute into there tech both the synths and the weapons would probly be alot better then they are

[@johnwinters8099]

dataumbreon the institute takes people to further their own technology, they could have easily took guns to further their weaponry. I think Bethesda missed a HUGE opportunity that could have doubled the storyline of fallout 4 and add many more endings.

[@Chase_1734]

dataumbreon it's like Star Wars. The empire mass produce Tie-Fighters and in Star Wars battlefront the tie and tie-intercepter are terrible.

[@atoaster4891]

john winters Then institute would be the "perfect" faction. They try to make them all moslty morally grey.

[@galacticknight55544]

My biggest problem with the Institute is not the kidnapping and the murder, as bad as that is. It's that they don't have a plan. They constantly talk about how they're humanity's best hope for the future, but they never say why they are or how they plan to save humanity.

[@gitgud4737]

They are wanting to war all of faction No besides with anyone

[@user-yv2cz8oj1k]

But... SCIENCE!!! Do you understand how difficult it can be to get funding.

[@loonyshots5879]

​@@gitgud4737 this would be a better joke if you understood that the institute is the one trying to hide from all the people trying to kill them constantly, while they just sit back and study which groups are worth saving and which ones need to die for the betterment of humanity

[@loonyshots5879]

i mean the whole kidnapping and surveying is how they're helping that is their plan, by watching and seeing which groups need to survive and which ones need to die to get humanity back on track to civilization and really they aren't even kidnapping that much half the "replacements" are just friends or family that are paranoid as hell just see the opening murder as you enter diamond city, it's just paranoia and rumors that keep the institute in hiding instead of coming out and helping everyone, it's interesting to see how everyone hates the institute for not helping then completely forgets the fact that the institute isn't helping because the moment anyone sees someone from the institute they'd freak out and kill then just out of pure fear and paranoia.

[@daviddenton1934]

Ya the writing in this game sucked. They don't give any of the factions compelling motivations

[@samvimes9510]

I remember being so excited when I first got my hands on an Institute laser rifle, I was expecting it to be this crazy powerful weapon. Instead it was worse than my pipe rifle.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

IKR LMFAO

[@saastamoinen32]

I hate how the institute rifle block half of the screen when using it, and if you change fov to fix the issue it locks all the achievements.

[@fatbaldandover40]

Exactly, they are pure shite

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Julkke O O F

[@theyloveyoumax]

They can be kinda satisfying to use tho if you tune them a specific way to your liking

[@Borgmatha1027]

I think this quote from Jurrasic Park PERFECTLY sums up the Institute. "You spent so long thinking about whether or not you could, you didn't stop to think if you should." - Dr. Ian Malcolm.

[@Peterwhitlock]

ahhh it is the reverse..all Earth is DEAD due to the FEV and no one and nothing is to survive as all become sterile eventually including the death claws that will be last to go but are dying too just slower. making effort to replicate life immune to the FEF is HERO WORK not evil or wrong and sure not blind....to try to move from synths to synth with family concepts to eventually breeding synths is survival of life against the end ogf all life by the FEV that all the planet and air is full of...ghouls and mutants are unable to breed and most humans can't have children and almost 100% of born children are born defective and they that are ok are usually sterile...extinction of life is predicted 100%...is the institute evil now???? not at all right... heroes saving all they think can be saved before they die too. minutemen are good people but dead too same as brotherhood all dead and institute too...so who is bad that is left as synths? lone survivors.....and the wanderer...was he synth tested to see if he was going to have father FEELING and other linked to such emotions and rage...revenge....love... if synth come to be able to breed...the future is possible...if not it is just synth holding the past as data and pointless existence mimicking life till someone comes and absorbs the data from them...if ever.

[@mgabrysSF]

Bah - I'll take advice from Steve Martin in 'The man with 2 brains' (question posed by the inspector) 'You are playing God!' 'SOMEONE HAS TO!' - Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr

[@Peterwhitlock]

@@mgabrysSF with 100% of all life dying institute did not have any choices. ALl the planet is dying so making bodies to go on is logical...same as humans NOW are thinking artific8ial intelligence to cover the galaxy NOT HUMANS because humans can't but the job has to be done so other that can will.

[@ryanmceldowney2428]

Yeah but they cool ass dinosaurs tho. SCIENCE BITCH

[@bluebarrymore5442]

"should" is a dumb question, if it can be done people are going to, until stopped.

[@prestongarvey9050]

I'ma chill in sanctuary hills while you do all the work

[@melindavolk22]

I KNEW IT

[@beyond4374]

Preston Garvey lmaooooo this made my day this is how almost every side character acts

[@venomdude-gc8sw]

NO i shall use my 1no weapon Uno reverse card

[@aidongardner4054]

Hey Preston do any settlements need my help?

[@kimmehamehaaa7241]

Pisses me off having him as a companion because people keep coming up and thanking him for all his "hard work" while you, the friggin General doing all the actual work, stand there like chopped liver. 😒

[@nathanlynch9634]

The one thing that angers me about father is he calls your characters spouses death collateral damage.

[@charlyssa3219]

It’s sad that’s how he thinks about one of his parents

[@quanlinglingdingle6122]

On my first playthrough i was 13 y.o and not an english speaker so i skip most of its dialogue Years later i downloaded FO4 again on my PC and once he said that our partner is just a collateral damage, i immediately plotting to destroy the institute

[@EdgeO419]

he also says 'tested you' by sending synths to try and murder you, I killed everyone in the institute and i didnt feel bad about it in the slightest.

[@pucciresetingthembobs5144]

Yeh that line was pretty much a red flag.

[@eska3083]

that's logic, for him it is not his mother of father, he was raised like an institut child, when he grows up and starts asking question, learn there is only one biological parent alive, the other is not even a memory for him, nothing, just a line on a debrief, it was just curiosity opening your cryo pod. and he starts to be emotional only when he saw the SS trying so hard to find him, realises the parental love is a thing. You can't be emotional for someone you never see, never know except in a disney world or for some king of emotional troubles

[@the_mad_captain]

Having played F04 for as many years as it's been out, the one thing I firmly say is; Shaun (Father) is no longer our son. He's been molded into the being that the Institute wanted him to be, not the man that we as his parent would have wanted him to be. I think as we continue through Fallout 4's main questline; The Sole Survivor realizes that too. That Shaun (Father) will never be someone the Sole Survivor can say they are proud of. Shaun (Father) doesn't even truly care about the Sole Survivor, and only looks upon them as another experiment. All while hiding behind his belief that the Institute truly is the best thing to happen to humanity, even though they never wanted to better humanity from the start, instead only bettering themselves at the expense of everything from Super Mutants to Synths to refugees to even their own flesh and blood. Shaun exemplifies everything the Institute stands for, and that is why he no longer is our son. He is a monster, a tyrant, a recluse, a narcissist, but worst of all? He's unable to admit that the Institute is capable of any wrong-doing, even going so far as to register the kidnapping of himself and the murder of one of his parents as a "necessary sacrifice". He truly believes that. This is why the Sole Survivor ends up destroying the Institute in most of FO4's endings, not because some faction told us to, but because the Institute took away Shaun, and in his place they left Father.

[@dogguy8603]

Actually in my new playthrough my lone survivor is an alcoholic and chem addict to cape with all his losses, his wife, his son stolen from him, compacted with PTSD from the great war

[@a.monach7602]

"I dreamed of you as an adult for so long. Here you are... and I am so disappointed." "As am I."

[@ditto7047]

Despite everything the Institute has done under Shaun, I don't blame him. I blame the Institute. THEY decided to play God by creating synths. THEY kidnapped Shaun and killed Nate/Nora. THEY indoctrinated Shaun to believe their crap about helping humanity, when in reality, they wanted to hoard the Commonwealth's resources for themselves and leave everyone else to die. THEY created the Super Mutants that infest the Commonwealth. THEY sent a synth and stopped any chance the Commonwealth had at forming a stabilized government. THEY coldly disregard the value of human life by killing and replacing innocent people with synths. THEY create synths and give them free will, the ability to think for themselves, to feel emotions, yet treat them like slaves, forcing them to live in obedience or have their memories wiped. I don't feel any joy in having to kill Shaun. But I will gladly destroy the Institute.

[@justanotherlaid-backdude5297]

@@ditto7047 after studying a little bit of University Point, I felt so sad for a young girl who was named Jacqueline. Who was killed by the Institute, the whole town was wiped out because she found technology that included the "Limitless" energy rifle. To the Institute, it's just a flick of a switch, no morals, no humanity. I don't understand how "Shaun" believes the Institute is the future, but if someone like Dr Madison Li where in charge, the Institute would be much better off.

[@alvinvalentino5797]

@@justanotherlaid-backdude5297 or if *You're* in charge, it could be better

[@xaleypoo4779]

I wish there were some way to, at the same time, dismantle the Institute as an organization and leave the facility itself intact. It's the most logical option, they have so much technology that could benefit people, specifically all of their research with crops. But no, Bethesda want big boom.

[@blue_scorpio_88]

You make a good point. But I don't think it's so simple as to blame Bethesda, even though they do deserve criticism. I've always thought about it like this though. Say you were to leave that place intact, with the FEV and all the other technology and information that exists in the Institute. If a group like the Gunners, or some very organised Raiders or any other mercenary group, could get a hold of that tech...some seriously bad shit would get out and some seriously bad shit would go down, and the Commonwealth could suffer immensely because of that. That's just my thoughts though.

[@angbandsbane]

@@blue_scorpio_88 Agreed. And even if you discount the wholly evil factions like the Gunners and Super Mutants, I can't imagine what would happen to the normal folks if you suddenly introduced that much tech to people who consider a clean shirt a luxury. Fights between individuals over the mlst basic of spoils, certainly, maybe even wars between settlements.

[@DirtyDan1]

@@blue_scorpio_88 they wouldn't even know how to use it lmao. Everyone that does would be dead.

[@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333]

The Institute is nicer looking, but that’s the only thing it has over the commonwealth. Most of the technology they have is either useless or fucked up. Blowing it all up is the most logical choice.

[@tharununnikrishnan3858]

No, after them any mindless damp sock could have jumped in and begun their journey to perfecting human race. All the data, equipment in the institute serves the sole purpose of retarded enhancements to life, so no good in leaving them intact🙄😑

[@smilingnid4276]

"Shes not even a scientist!" Bitch i built a interceptor platform to hijack you relay based on crayon schematics, I built the nuclear generator that powered it out of old guns, bug guts, and soda cans, then I built a ROBOT ARMY to guard it out of old cars and some radio parts. So ACTING Director Anyo what can you do in a cave with a box of scraps?

[@Ocastia]

That still doesn't make you a scientist, at best you could try to call yourself an engineer, but I personally find McGyver far more fitting.

[@rockydocky7541]

Liam Sampson Tony Stark did.... in a cave... wItH a BoX oF sCrApS

[@G.reviewz]

FUCKING BURN!!!

[@ailius1520]

Nora is the only actual person in Fallout that actually has a college education. All the "scientists" are just scavengers who found a lab coat in a locker somewhere.

[@The_Bird_Bird_Harder]

@@ailius1520 Institute scientists are descendants of college people.

[@sashakrotkov5050]

When we finally reach the institute, Shaun tries to explain everything, and in this conversation it seems like Shaun wants his mom or dad to join him in rebuilding the civilization. I really don't understand Shaun, if he wanted to see his dad or mom, why main character of the game has to go through killing Kellogg and a ton of synth in the way before reaching the institute. He could have helped them to find him faster

[@Dean.Crockett]

Well, Shaun despises and is terrified of the surface, and the entire plan of freeing his mother/father was just his personal plan which he shared with nobody, likely nobody within the Institute would've agreed with Shaun plotting Kellogg's death and bringing in a dangerous outsider to take over. It was his covert op and he wouldn't go above ground on his own, so he just made sure the pod opened and that's all he had agency to do (supposedly)

[@cyber1ifeconnor]

He wanted to know who you were, he wanted to know if after all the time that's passed would you care? And would you be good or evil? Or would the surface change you? He couldn't just go "hey person I've never met welcome to hell on earth, here's all the power in the world New Director"...

[@cyber1ifeconnor]

@@Dean.Crockett actually he shared it, Infact he told everyone to classify all files that are sensitive and to keep there mouths shut for a time on there inner workings, he says "our guest is nearly here, it's time to prepare for his arrival, I ask for all sensitive files and documents to be classifyed until further notice"

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

If Shaun truly is your son, (and this is questionable) then he is pervaded by Institute way of thinking. Everything is test to him, so naturally you also have to be tested, and Kellogg, possible transhuman liability, has to be weeded out and given his revenge. And to person like Shaun, who no doubt grew up with heavy responsibilities and expectations but very little true parental love, it would be therapeutic to see his father or mother fight against all odds to retrieve him. He wants to see that his biological parent cares for him, that is why he misleads you with child Shaun Synth. Father Shaun's tragedy is that he desperately wants to be loved by you, accepted by you, but he is prisoner of the Institute way of thinking, emotionally stunted, and too caught up in his own role and importance to articulate it.

[@sl9wdive]

Its an experiment remember? He wanted to see if hes capable and wanted to learn more about his personality

[@thecult7521]

The Institute, well that just sounds like Vault-tec with extra steps

[@sephirothdomain1]

😂😂😂😂

[@collinridderman9698]

😂😂😂

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

The Cult, you’re actually right about the Institute is Vault-Tec with extra steps.

[@Dalton_Boardman2000]

I think I made a similar point in an earlier comment.

[@bioemiliano]

Actually, Enclave

[@cielopachirisu929]

“Hmmm, how do we make our robotic slaves better...?” “Let’s give them free will and human needs!”

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Institute logic

[@lovaszaron3138]

If any of them would have ever read Capek, they would know what it is. They just fail.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

@@Arvel_The_Swit that eventually they can be remade as Synths, "Mankind Redefined", they seek immortality, what they believe is mankinds future, their next leap in evolution, THAT is why they gave them free will and judgement, and they have proven that it can be done, they just have to perfect the tech.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

The Gaming Paladin And in doing so the collective will perish. And for what? Repopulating the planet with immortal, sterile beings? You can't even evolve with that.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

@@totmgsrockxd9900 thats the thing, they cant see how flawed their logic is, to them mankind's survival hangs on them finding the way to save it, to save themselves. they are scientific fanatics, one and all.

[@duglife2230]

This is why I made my character deliver the "I dreamed of you as an adult for so long. Here you are, and I'm so disappointed" line when I talked to him on top of the C.I.T. in my first ever playthrough.

[@George_Bulkin]

OUCH. That's some critical hit made solely by speechcraft.

[@d.n5287]

Didn't know better critical affected dialogue as well

[@kylezucchini]

I didn’t get to do that dialogue option :(

[@fabiospasiano9885]

That would hurt so fucking hard!

[@szaman4180]

Imma reload my save just to say that to shaun

[@KHayes666]

I couldn't stop laughing when it was revealed "The Institute" is this world's M.I.T. which I used to live a few miles from. Just the fact this game turned MIT into Skynet is HILARIOUS to me.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

They are not Skynet, but a group of scientists who claim Massachuset as their personal petri dish and testing ground for scientific research unburdened by morality. Where human casualties are written off as acceptable losses. And they will never relinquish their small domain willingly.

[@KHayes666]

​@@matiasluukkanen7718Coursers are Terminators with a different name lol

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@KHayes666 yeah, but humans are still ultimately in control, not AI.

[@alexcrowder1673]

@@KHayes666 No, Coursers are self aware and multiple coursers have gone rogue. They dont even talk like a courser when humans arent around. Its a learned behavior for them to talk in such a way. Theres a whole other oxhorn video about coursers. They talk that way to make them seem more like a machine so the scientists feel in control, even though they arent at all. There is no programming stopping them from rebelling, otherwise they wouldnt need the SRB. The only reason most of them stay is because they get their memories wiped if they fail to qualify as a courser. So only the most (seemingly) trustworthy of synths get to actually be coursers. They weed out the ones with personality flaws and only keep the ones they feel will find a true sense of purpose as a courser. Doing something for a sense of purpose is a very human behavior. We see this in x6-88 as well. Infact he also breaks character to the courier if you make him get emptional and upset. He drops the robot cadence to his voice entirely.

[@eska3083]

@@KHayes666 buf if you looking for skynet, ask that to president EDEN ;)

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

I am 100% sure that 98% of people who picked Institute ending had the headcanon of their character changing said Institute for the better.

[@joeclark1893]

I sure did

[@ExecutionDbl9]

Nah. My character was just single minded focused on finding his son and had no attachment to the post-apocalyptic Commonwealth

[@brightgarinson3099]

Nope. I picked BoS first because I care for my people. I picked Institute 2nd because I wanted to have the power but that was disappointing.

[@Mrshotgun7392]

Nah, I picked them because I wanted maxon's coat and gun.

[@stellabella671]

Nope, I wanted running water and a clean place to sleep and a future where I don't have to be sneaking around a ruined city full of bad people and mutants and zombie like ghouls that wanna eat me. Also Shaun is my son and damnit, I'm not gonna be a widow and without child (*spoiler* I know he dies anyways but at least I can be a good mom and let him live out his dreams). Also, I don't care about the wasteland or the surface, I just woke up and my whole world was destroyed, and the institute offers almost everything I lost (even a fake Shaun if I ever needed some nostalgia, I dunno). At first I cared about the synths and was ready to go in there guns blazing and rescue my son with the Brotherhood's help but as soon as I found out the old Shaun was running the whole thing I walked around the place stunned both by the not fucked up appearance and good interior decorating plus the overall lack of radiation. In short, I have no reason to care about the surface because I'm not from that time.

[@Skaitania]

The Insitute: the only clean showers in the Commonwealth. I still destroyed it...but it was a difficult decision after I saw the shower in my room.

[@shebvixen]

Thank God for mods! I wouldn't have been able to destroy the only clean bathroom's without them!

[@jemish_3353]

Vault 81 has showers why does no one talk about that?

[@Skaitania]

@@jemish_3353 Because that still looks like a Vault. The Insitute feels like a spa in comparison. And Vault 81 is troubled by technical problems, which probably means 'no hot water' half of the time, or 'no water'.

[@jemish_3353]

@@Skaitania well they can use fire to make hot water or warm water

[@tracys169]

Yep. I was conflicted due to those nice private showers lol

[@betheaves1026]

The institute: the most technically advanced group in the commonwealth Also the institute: makes laser guns that would be better in laser tag than actual fight

[@mikoto7693]

Yeah I don’t get that, it would be child’s play to retrieve a laser rifle and copy it.

[@abford03]

@@TimelessWolves the brotherhood are also evil mate.

[@theenclave8811]

i believe the institute weapons are so weak is cuz they are supposed to be mass produced for synths therefore cheap also the other reason for it could be balancing issues and the fact that u encounter synths in a ton of locations throught the commonwealth

[@alpacawithouthat987]

@@theenclave8811 The last fight in the Institute would be a nightmare if their guns were actually good. There’s already a lot of synths and they take a lot of bullets so I don’t think having strong weapons is necessary for them

[@twistedyogert]

What's funny is that a blue laser beam actually wouldn't make a very good weapon. Shorter wavelengths of light such as blue are more effectively scattered by particles within the atmosphere, that's why the sky is blue during the day. A longer wavelength such as red or infrared light would probably be better for weaponry. So the red lasers that are used by other factions would be more effective at longer ranges.

[@BiblicFurby]

Playing this game made me realize I have this deep seeded family complex where I cant stand the thought of family splitting up, and I cant ever get myself to side with any other faction without hating myself by the end. Thanks for the gateway to therapy Bethesda.

[@cozy-boi8616]

I think I do to, now that you mention it.

[@mikoto7693]

Interesting way that FO4 influences people. I myself can’t bring myself to side with any other faction than the Minutemen, and always end up claiming every available settlement and making each one as good as I can. I really think that the Minutemen have a very strong possibility of developing into a proper nation with a constitution and government post-game. I personally seem to have a deep seeded need to create and maintain life and civilisation in such games. Probably why I sided with the NCR in New Vegas. But yeah the Railroad are too narrowly minded with tunnel vision for me to choose them. Don’t get me wrong I do consider Gen3 synths as people and I’m glad they help Synths but they’re not suitable for being the main dominating faction because they don’t give a flying f*ck about humans or anything or anyone else. I’m happy to join them and assist them but they got no right being the dominant faction. Plus I have huge issues with the memory wipes as I see it as murdering the person that the Synth had become. Not to mention the problems further down the line when they and those around them notice s/he isn’t aging. I can’t even tolerate the Brotherhood of Steel at all. Everything they stand for is wrong in my opinion. It’s impossible to accomplish their goal of hoarding all the technology in the world and force everyone else to live as little more than primitive tribals. The way they bully the locals into giving them food the farmers need themselves is just evil. Their attitude towards sentient ghouls, synths and intelligent super mutants is evil. The way they steal technology from ruins annoys me because eventually the technology there could have been used by people once civilisation recovers. And the attitude towards non-members is offputting. And then there’s the Institute and I cannot condone choosing them. Not after the FEV programme, the kidnapping, interrogation and murder the people they replace, ordering the other Vault 111 victims to die by suffocation, hiring Kellog, having Gen1/2 synths on scavenging missions murder any human it comes across. Even the Coursers murder freely if it suits the mission like how that Courser was murdering Gunners who were prisoners. I could go on but I’ve made my point. But the reason Shaun doesn’t phase me or trigger familial feelings is because I don’t consider him the Sole Survivor’s son in any way. I don’t consider him related by anything but genetics. The reason I feel this way is because I feel that the Institute killed the man he would have become even with one parent in the wasteland. I imagine he’d be very difficult if Nate or Nora had raised him. As far as I’m concerned Kellog murdered both spouse and son. The old man you meet is the Institute’s son and they created a heartless monster.

[@wasabilover1293]

@@mikoto7693 exactly, we are ad much related to Shaun as a sperm donor to a random kid he made, just blood. Shaun had some seriouse abondemenet issues though, since he really wanted the player to join him. He wanted a parental figure, a real one. I almost feel bad for him, almost.

[@shamanicdude8605]

@@mikoto7693 Acadia's synths should have been the Railroad.They're better in everyway,safe haven,a proficient leader,natural defenses due to the fog,capable of coexisting with humans and DiMA is a better leader for synths in every way.Railroad feels like a bunch of kids playing spy compared to what DiMA has accomplished.

[@Skythe.]

@@mikoto7693someone said and idk if this is true, but they found in a terminal that captain kells didn’t want teagan if i spelt that right, to extort rss, that’s why he asks you, but then again idk if that is true.

[@C4rrEternal]

I spent the whole game trying to find MY SON, and now you want to tell me he was evil? Don't talk to me or my son ever again!

[@benjijacobs2049]

CarrEternal your son who is evil?

[@BigLee93]

I teamed up with the BOS against the Institute and then took out the BOS with the Railroad because the BOS was going to take down the Railroad and all's the Railroad want to do is help free synths who want to be set free.

[@morgan0__o]

@@BigLee93 The Railroad is a joke

[@vodafonevodafone4727]

I remember, when I played in 3 I was absolutely confident, that my father was the creator of supermutsnts (after loyal supermutant had said me, that he thought he was created by someone)

[@BigLee93]

@@morgan0__o How is that?

[@TigerTrainer]

Thought I’d point this out. You said that the institute’s break-in at vault 111 showed examples of their selfishness/evil intentions/whatever because of what happened to the sole survivor’s family. What you probably didn’t realise was that in order to take Shaun from the cryo pod, they had to disable the protocol keeping everyone frozen (sole survivor’s family and all others residing in the cryo pods) to take him, then refroze the sole survivor, and only the sole survivor, leaving all other vault residents sealed in their unfrozen pods. Which lead to their deaths viva asphyxiation. Which the the terminals in vault 111 confirm that asphyxiation was cause of death. Even during Kellogg’s memory sequence in the main quest line, if you look closely at the other pods, they are banging the window trying to get out. After the sole survivor is refrozen. So, since the others weren’t related to Shaun, the institute didn’t care what happened to them, causing them to let the residents die in the air tight pod.

[@wakeup5998]

good point!

[@mikoto7693]

I remember that, and I also remember my own thoughts about it. The Director of the time actively ordered Kellog and the team to kill the others. I don’t believe that they were ordered to kill the parent holding Shaun specifically. I believe that was on Kellog. I actually believe that the ideal plan was to take the baby, shove the parent back into the cryopod and refreze both parents as two backups. But they absolutely did intend on killing all the other people trapped in the airtight pods to suffocate. They didn’t even have the decency to put gaseous anaesthetic into the pods so at least they wouldn’t be conscious while they suffocated. Or even just overdose them on anaesthetics. And as someone very well versed in genetics I find that wanton murdering so frustrating. The whole point of finding those records and the whole mission was to acquire the seriously scarce and valuable “pure” human DNA that they themselves don’t have. The truly best and logical scientific choice would be to wake everyone and explain the state of the surface and offer them a place in the Institute on the condition that they must choose someone from the Institute and breed with them if possible or consent to being cloned. If necessary they could stick Nate and Nora back on ice. Why? Because the Institute is a closed community where almost nobody not born to it can join. The irony is that if everyone on the surface dropped dead then humanity would become a dead species walking because the Institute doesn’t have enough population to avoid inbreeding. Too much inbreeding results in infertility and horrific congenital abnormalities. In the real world Tutankhamen is a great example. Because the ancient Egyptian pharaohs inbred as much as possible poor Tut was born with quite a few deformities including a club foot and spinabifida. Worse, he was required to marry his full blood sister and the sad truth was that they simply couldn’t produce a child. All three babies died during or just after pregnancy. I don’t actually know if she could have produced a viable baby if she’d bred with a guy not related to her. Anyway the truth is that the Institute absolutely needs surfacers to continue to survive. Oh it might take a few generations but eventually they’d reach the point where literally everyone is related to each other and soon after that same inbreeding problem would finish them. As for why taking the Vault 111 residents specifically? Well they’re mutated too. Adding a few “pure” humans bloodlines into the mix improves the overall quality of the Institute population. Actually I also wonder why they didn’t grab people out of the Vault Curie is from. (I can almost never remember the Vault numbers.) As far as I remember they generally don’t leave the Vault and had only recently been letting people out to trade, or wastelanders in. But the same thing applies-at least for the Institute’s goals. Wastelanders might be different in advantageous ways actually. 200 years of surviving in those conditions might actually make them more suited for the wasteland than a “pure” human might be in terms of handling radiation. But the Institute wouldn’t care about that given their enclosed separation.

[@EvieMoxxie]

@@mikoto7693 this reminded me of the wife of Doc Mitchell in Fallout New Vegas. People of the Institute may have medical advances, but people of 111 likely would have hardly and defense to new diseases on the surface. Then after a few generations of inbreeding, doesn't the fortitude of the immune system drop as well? I wonder if perhaps anyone in the Institute tried to convince themselves it was mercy to kill the other 111 residents since "if the mutants don't kill them, the diseases will." An attempt to ease their conscience. But I feel it backs your point even more, or at least make it a fair trade that the people in 111 add more genetic options to the faction, while those in the Institute keep them safe from the topside illnesses that could potentially wipe them out in weeks.

[@Robert53area]

@@mikoto7693 see this has always bugged me about that, they needed unstated DNA for 2 reasons completing the synth program and to cure FEV, why kill the others? Wouldn't they have been un mutated too? That means all of 111 would be un mutated prewar DNA? Why not refreeze the whole vault?

[@Celisar1]

You can deactivate just one cryopot. There is nothing to your claim that they chose to kill everybody on the other cryopots.

[@williamwinder5011]

If they used Shawn's DNA to make the Gen 3 synths then every gen 3 is technically your child.

[@godzilla5512]

That makes sense

[@godzilla5512]

And that explains why when you see gen-3 saints they always said greetings mother actually that was a lie gen 1 since only say that but some Gentry since do

[@mjkrh]

I am the Real Father father

[@keisufederationmapping2748]

Those poor people who romanced Danse

[@louiswinters2265]

They just used it to make their own DNA for the synths like using a blueprint of how to make a copy of unirradiated person

[@GhostFromThe10]

when i pictured the institute, i imagined a scientific breakthrough above ground, city’s of technology advanced walls, with flying cars, gravity defying technology, teleportation, synthetic nature, synthetic pets and cures to health, drugs, a cure to live longer, a better cure to radiation, a technologically advanced army able to defeat measly raiders and super mutants, instead they just hid underground, built a tiny place and wasted everything they had on making a bad reputation from themselves, such a disappointment.

[@Calibro9589]

They are underground becaue on the surface there are just dumb people who could not understand the long term objectives. Commonwealth is populated by ignorant evolved chimps not someone who could rebuild and improve society.

[@Calibro9589]

They had 200 years, everything they were able to build are pipeguns and raiders.

[@GhostFromThe10]

@@Calibro9589 yeah but they could’ve done more than build some half ass fortress underground, imagine they built a giant city underground, no radiation storms, they just mind their business and repopulate and expand, they built a place the size of a large basement and sent out robots to kill people on the surface

[@GhostFromThe10]

@@Calibro9589 right, so maybe these guys who achieved more could’ve done better, instead they just turn out to be a bunch of robotic dicks with an old man leading them

[@GeraltofRivia22]

They actively made the world worse for everyone but themselves. Kidnapping innocent people to experiment on, raiding and destroying towns using synths, releasing super mutants into the commonwealth, murdering the regional government and more. All to improve their own quality of life and to satisfy some sick, twisted desire to keep experimenting purely for the sake of experimenting.

[@theinstitute2077]

Excellent video full of highly informative material sir. A Courser has been dispatched.

[@felixreshia9495]

The Institute 😂😂😂

[@joanieedwards2030]

The Institute liberty prime is coming better run

[@madcourier6217]

The Institute is coming and I got a Gauss Rifle and a nice suit of power armor waiting for you!

[@AugustAutumn]

No matter! Verti-Assault team awaiting your call, Preston Garvey! Mark the destination on the map!

[@Ously6]

The Institute Synth Rights of Synth Fights. Get ready.

[@JohnQDarksoul]

The "Best hope for humanity" doesn't mean that they are the "best hope for the Commonwealth".. They are humanity in themselves, they are the best humanity has, considering their tech. And considering their motto, they are the "redefined humanity", they don't care for the Commonwealth. Best hope for humanity in general, not really. Best hope for the progression of humanity through the technology, clearly.

[@oxhorn]

Again, I showed that none of their technology actually helps humanity. It only helps the Institute. If you define "humanity" by the Institute alone, then you can argue that every faction is humanity's best hope, because every faction has its own survival top of mind.

[@JohnQDarksoul]

***** The Institute doesn't see humanity as 'humanity'. The only humanity to the Institute is them. These are two different 'humanities', which I didn't see explained well in this. The Institute defines humanity as itself. The Institute is doing what's best for the Institute. "The Institute is the best hope for the Institute." I'm not saying that they *do* help the Commonwealth, I'm saying that they aren't talking about the Commonwealth when they say that their the best hope. They've distinguished themselves from the 'surface dwellers'.

[@oxhorn]

Oh, well in that case I agree. They DO see themselves as humanity, and their survival as humanity's last hope. But this is not a positive quality--it is a negative one.

[@JohnQDarksoul]

It's definitely a negative view, but to them they may just see the mutants as impure like the brotherhood, and the raiders terrible things like Handsome Jack does in the Borderlands series. They may want to purge the world for the 'greater good'. While I don't agree with that, I don't think the entirety of the Institute believes a purge is needed. There are people that dislike Father's views. When Father dies, someone who dislikes the Institute's ways may take his place. That would be an interesting twist for Bethesda.

[@dylansheldon9031]

Oxhorn What do you think a commonwealth would be like under Minutemen authority?

[@Ceriu]

Lets not forget that Father setup Kelogg to get killed by the sole survivor as literally "A little bit of revenge for the both of us"... he cared he just couldn't express himself.

[@marshalmarshall2109]

Because nothing screams care like pitting a traumatized vault dweller against the institute's top cyborg assassin.

[@newperve]

Yeah because it's really revenge not eliminating a loose end without taking responsibility to others in The Institute. Motive he didn't e ebb try top get rid of Kellogg until he was dying and replacement would be the next director's problem.

[@ZeroUs30]

And the fact that Father lets the sole survivor, his only actual family fend for themselves and potentionally die in the commonwealth as an ”experiment” that he said himself

[@marshallbeck9101]

Yah father is just playing god

[@justgamingid8914]

@@marshallbeck9101 yeah the institue playing god, you know why they call him "father" right

[@Markis2bi4]

The Institute proves to me that smart people can be incredibly stupid, just due to the fact that they lacked wisdom snd empathy for their fellow Human and otherwise sentient neighbors, and all in favor for cold logic. Despicable.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

I am not sure we can call them stupid. Just emotionally removed. They are just researchers who need human subjects, and Commonwealth will provide these in copious numbers. And as radioactive surroundings force Institute members live underground, no wonder they are far removed from all tragedies they cause. People above are just data to them. But yes, Institute regards all human lives they ruin through kidnapping or otherwise as acceptable losses. They lack empathy, but then again we have seen in real world that many scientific fields of research require lack of empathy to make swift progress.

[@TemmieContingenC]

@@matiasluukkanen7718 they suffered from bad writing too

[@iim4xii129]

They're smart but not wise - the opposite of Forrest Gump.

[@rohenthar8449]

This is not even logic, that is abomination build on pure intelligence and elitism.

[@rohenthar8449]

@@matiasluukkanen7718 Not quite. They lack vision and wisdom. There is a plenty opportunities for research, even if they try to rebuild or support wastelanders, yet they dont even think about that, because for them, they are not people, they are animals, so they must put them in their place... loosing in the process themself's and precious opportunities.

[@christopherdossantos9250]

I always appreciate a youtuber that puts the extra effort into making subtitles. It's so useful when you're hard of hearing, but so rarely done. The autogenerated ones aren't the best, so it means a lot when somebody thinks that far ahead

[@whamosam4136]

RIGHT! Damn it was nice to read coherent subtitles for once.

[@caseymarie625]

It really is rare

[@IsilmeTuruphant]

You touched on a major problem I have with Fallout 4 Lore: Coursers. Lore-wise? They're supposed to be Terminators. Tough, fast, near-impossible to kill. When you hunt one down, he's slaughtering an entire building of Gunners as they frantically unload on him with rocket launchers, grenades, everything they have. And no mater how fast YOU go, he stays ahead of you, so he's booking it, moving like those Gunners aren't there. Then you reach him and... the hardest part is his annoying tendency to keep turning invisible. His gun is the standard-issue Institute Flashlight of Impotence, and really aside from the Stealth Boy and a few stimpacks, that's all he's GOT. I killed him with a prop axe from a comic book shop. He wasn't enough of a threat to waste bullets on. And there's no reason for it. Make the Coursers coats have ballistic weave, give them regenerating health, and let them use better weapons. The Institute weapons are crap because they're cheaply mass produced for their cheaply mass produced Gen 1 and 2 Synths, but that's no reason to skimp on Courser gear. Let them use scavenged Pre-War weapons, like Plasma Rifles or AER-9 lasers, or even ballistic weapons if the Institute doesn't want to develop their own. The Courser you kill as part of the story literally TRIPS over dozens of weapons that are all better than what he's carrying on his way to the top floor.

[@nickfell8034]

Polenicus “Institute Flashlight of Impotence.” I don’t think I’ve ever read a funnier youtube comment.

[@sabertooth160]

You must have been very well prepared or playing on an easy difficulty, this guy,was an SOB on survival

[@nickfell8034]

saber dees yeah, X-01 Power Armor with all ranks of medic and 15 stimpaks will do that to you. At that point you’re just overkilling everything though

[@sabertooth160]

@@nickfell8034 another thing to keep in mind is what that courses did isnt all to impressive, considering you do that in every dungeon you tactically wipe all mobs from every dungeon in the common wealth lol

[@landonmoser34]

Polenicus what if you say the dialogue that shuts them down?

[@ryszakowy]

"Best hope for himanity" - replaces humans with synths. yup someone was going hard on Jet

[@roshia_2783]

I mean, their motto IS "mankind redefined."

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

RoshiA_ More like “Mankind, re*defiled.* Really, that’s all that they do, they *DEFILE* humanity.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Actually, make that Mankind, *UNDEFINED.* They erode the definition of what it means to be "human" by making the Gen 3 Synth.

[@George_Bulkin]

Somehow, even Dr. Mobius when sky-high on 'Tats & Psycho has more conscience than any egghead from the Institute.

[@boone4531]

@@George_Bulkin those robot scorpians are deadlier than any institute robot lol

[@tenjenk]

Whenever the institute says this shit i remember that one town with the naturally-gifted very tech savvy girl they massacred just because she found a datadisk with critical info. Someone with a gift like that should have been recruited along with the data disk. Hell, that could have been handled 100 different better ways but how they went about it reveals their true nature despite what they like to believe they are. Intentions and self delusions dont matter, how you behave and act matters cause that shows what you will DO when it comes down to it, the means to your ends are what shape as you progress towards your goal and you will remain that way after you achieve it. If you were a monster, you'll most likely destroy your goal and negate any benefits gained from it. They speak of necessity but look at all the actions surrounding their "necessary" actions.

[@KylixTheFur]

I just found that quest last week, and that was the final straw for me too. They slaughtered everyone there, and then had their synths hang out there doing nothing. I'm looking forward to destroying the institute.

[@UrpleSquirrel]

Warwick Farm was my breaking point with the Institute during my first playthrough. I was following the main story and hadn't done much exploring, and when I got to the Institute the scientists there seemed like people, not monsters. Then I got up to the farm and got the story. They kidnapped and killed a man, a husband and father of two children, and replaced him with a synth. So that they could use the family’s farm. *To test seeds.* A man’s life was worth less to the Institute than a genetically-modified pumpkin. Is Bioscience so lacking in options that killing Roger Warwick was the only possible way to test their crops? Why not make a synth, give him the seeds, send him up to the farm and tell him to say he’s a traveler looking for work. Or if they need complete control over what’s grown, pick a spot with no one living there, and send up two or three synths to make a small farmstead. Voila! You’ve gained a testing site, and the experiment can proceed without *murder.* Replacing someone with a synth is just their default method of doing anything topside. Their organization is a huge, living example of the banality of evil.

[@tufwear44]

Conspiracy theory: *Ox is Elder Maxon in disguise*

[@Thesandman1254]

Alternate theory oxhorn is the ancestor for elder maxon

[@benjijacobs2049]

Vincent Wieneman So Roger Maxson stationed at Mariposa?

[@andystrawberryking9501]

He explains things way better than maxon....he probably owns his own brotherhood of steel chapter

[@fumarc4501]

I nominate Oxhorn for new BOS Elder.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

@@fumarc4501 Lmfao yes, make him *HIGH ELDER* of the BoS

[@aretard8126]

First you're love dies and then you're son is a leader of an evil corparation Man it sucks to be the sole survivor

[@ericdraven3420]

@@gastroesophagealreflux6285 unless you shoot him in the head and blow up his death bed

[@gastroesophagealreflux6285]

@@ericdraven3420 true, well said 😂

[@bird8175]

“first you are love dies and then you are son dies” *huh*

[@terreliv]

And then you learn that the Courser you killed is "you are" grandson.

[@ricardoarancibia6611]

@@kiansoriano2121 r/woosh

[@loreknight5612]

Most people here that support the institute do not actually heed Oxhorn's most important point. Yes, the institute has the capability to do wondrous things. but that doesn't matter, because they don't do them. Everyone has potential to do great or terrible things. They aren't inherently good or bad because they *can* do those things. They are good or bad because they *do* those things. The institute does bad things and can do good things. Therefore, they are bad. A man can dream of doing amazing things. But his dreams mean nothing until they are put into action.

[@romaniangamer1]

Finally, thank you! Also the hypothesis that you can "reform" it. You cannot shape evil, they're lying to themselves, I don't see a story line in which the Institute is changed to be good

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@romaniangamer1 you can change evil if they are willing to reform. To change. Actually willing to become better. Nobody in the Institute is. Yes, they greet you with open arms. As a curiosity. Another tool. Another experiment. When you become the leader, all the other leaders immediately resent you. They dont like you. They dont trust your judgement. They think you are a moron. The Institute doesnt respect you. They only listen because they have to. In all likelyhood, the Sole Survivor will die long before the other scientists due to all the exposure to the wasteland. No matter what moral changes are made in the Institute, it wont matter. Theyll change back. Because its easy. Because they didnt trust you to begin with. Whose to say that they wont simply conspire to kill you and replace you with a synth totally loyal to them? They control everything. They could take your dna off the listing. Do it in secret. And program you to obey.

[@romaniangamer1]

@@ConnorNotyerbidness I think you made a mistake, I am against the Institute man!

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@romaniangamer1 i was more just trying to elaborate on what u said. Srry shoulda made that clear XD

[@romaniangamer1]

No worries man!

[@memehistorian9551]

Raiders: kidnap and murder The Institute: kidnap and murder (even more efficiently) "Come on bro. Look at the synth gorillas. We're clearly humanity's best hope"

[@hhjk377]

I like to RP that, after the Minutemen ending where you set the evacuation order, the Institute scientists (well, some of them) see the humanity of the surface... the settlements that take them in, helps them, and such... become super helpful to the wasteland. So your destruction of the Institute actually ends up making them help humanity like the bullshit about doing before.

[@sonicmastersword8080]

hhjk377 Vault 81 is probably their best relocation approach. Retains the safety while offering access to the world.

[@ascendedcat260]

One of the types of Minutemen quests after the ending is meeting some escaped Institute scientists at a Minuteman checkpoint and clearing out a settlement so the scientists can live there. The scientists are extremely pessimistic about what happened to the Institute and seem pretty hopeless about living on the surface, but other than that what you said is pretty much canon.

[@dusk6159]

Yes that's another useful head canon for the Institute and especially its people, but this time not as in being with the Institute, that's nice.

[@dusk6159]

@@sonicmastersword8080 Yeah that could mesh well too.

[@tylersoto7465]

Idk sometimes I just get so tired of the commonwealth and it's settlement shits so fuck it I'll be come institute director and use the coursers to take out enemies out of the picture starting crap and synth 1&2 gens to patrol ares like police but only engage if there bad enemies , and get the new fusion core from atomic mass place to upgrade out reactor to have more power , and build a institute architecture skyscraper aboveground to have a corporation to start rebuilding the commonwealth with advance technology and science and help bring civilization to the land and use brotherhood of steel technology like energy weapons, vertibirds, and prydwen to help us out and make it better place to live lol

[@barrydalton4743]

There’s ones quote Superman said about Lex Luther “saving the world.” “If it had mattered to you, you could have saved the world years ago.” And that’s the Indtitute right there; they have the potential and capacity to save the Commonwealth they willingly choose to not

[@mytotim8978]

True, but when you become the Director, you call the shots, at least from a roleplaying and narrative point of view. It's like having the wealth of Lex Luthor after his demise and said fuck it, the guy was evil so I'm gonna burn all his stuff and his money instead of doing the right thing.

[@mytotim8978]

@PjaxKorea That is irrelevant, you still the boss and are alike your son.

[@curie1420]

@@mytotim8978 okay this and all but this settlement needs your help, here ill mark it on your map

[@comradeeverclear4063]

It's not that they choose not to, you can find a holotape there saying they actively tried to keep the CPG going, but it was falling apart at every turn. This contradicts what Nick Valentine tells us. They are aware the people of the commonwealth fear them, hence why they try to operate in secrecy.

[@loonyshots5879]

i want to side with you but your just not right, the entire Commonwealth is coming to try to kill the only people capable of saving humanity, that's literally the reason you have to kill them or everyone else because it can't be any other way. The sad part is if everyone worked together besides of course the railroad cause fuck them, but if everyone worked together it would be a perfect system of helping humanity because you have the minutemen helping people survive the wasteland, then you got the brotherhood that would be great if they weren't so focused on killing the other people trying to help, then you got the institute that are trying to secure the future if mankind and every faction will do anything to get what they want. Its a lot like real life politics where once you join one faction you can't really see the other factions ideals being better because every faction has a good reason to be focused on what their focus is. If you really go through all the factions with the same mindset going into each one you really get a sense of how good a community with everyone working together would be.

[@SkitniesX]

Some call them "The Institute". I call them Abstergo.

[@buildawall5803]

This isn't assassins Creed

[@gamermoment4327]

They basically are 🤣

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

Build a WALL, there’s literally no different between what Abstergo is doing and what the Institute are doing because if you’re saying that the Institute are “helping humanity” then you could easily apply the same line of reasoning to Abstergo Corp. because their motivations are one and the same.

[@seithtorres1686]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr lies there's a huge difference the institute succeeded taking away peoples free will😂😂😂

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Skitnies I would call them Schutzstaffel II.

[@t3chnohusky74]

I agree. My big argument was “the institute hasn’t achieved anything the commonwealth can’t.” Like farming crops or livestock, water purification, making new people/synths. The commonwealth lacks consistency in their resources but also don’t require R&D to plant crops and make clothing.

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

I’m pretty sure the institute has a more efficient and healthier style of crops and livestock though. But you’re right, in game there’s not much of a difference

[@letsplaysvonaja1714]

@@kakyointhemilfhunter4273 well, the commonwealth has that one fully functional vault with healthy plants free of radiation

[@emmyazin]

Yeah but synth gorillas

[@danielclark6157]

Why is the institute evil Father: "You wouldn't understand"

[@thegradyfiles]

Me: kidnapping having robots take over peoples Lives turning people into monsters that’s the definition of evil

[@tripledigit4835]

“It’s Hegelian dialectics, not deep motivations and good writing animosity”

[@thegradyfiles]

@@tripledigit4835 I don’t know what half of those words mean

[@tripledigit4835]

@@thegradyfiles I’m paraphrasing Caesar from Fallout New Vegas because the OP is referring to the lack of ideological beliefs that father and the institute has. Caeser and why he believes what he believes was written well and the player can understand his perspective while father not so much

[@wedoaliltrollin2978]

@@tripledigit4835 lmaoo father would just straight up be "nah you dumbass you don't understand shit so I won't bother explaining"

[@GrievousReborn]

I'm supprised the instute didn't try to kidnap Jack Cabot

[@p.h.562]

I'm surprised that the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't try to recruit him or his father.

[@MetalHanyou1]

If Danse is any indicator, the BoS would want them both dead. If you take Danse into Cabot's house, he remarks that the whole place should be destroyed. Considering the nature of the Cabots'.... situation.... the BoS would likely view the Cabots as abominations against nature to be destroyed.

[@p.h.562]

@@MetalHanyou1 Imagine what the BoS could do with the mysterious serum. They would want it.

[@MetalHanyou1]

The BoS would not be interested in the serum enough to keep Lorenzo - its only source - alive. Lorenzo is a psychopath, but more importantly, he's an abomination; a human being transformed and kept alive by unnatural means. The BoS are not a bunch of scientists like the Institute - they have no interest in medical science, they're only interested in things that make things explode. All they'd want from any of the Cabots is Lorenzo's dead body so they could pry the artifact from him. Presuming they can't reverse engineer the device, they'd likely either hide it away forever never to see the light of day again. Or destroy it. I'm not sure which.

[@MetalHanyou1]

P.A.M wasn't a psychotic, alien-artifact-mutated lunatic with telekinetic powers. And again, Paladin Danse's opinion alone shows the BoS' appreciation for Jack's work; "nothing good can come of this place." kzbin.info/www/bejne/npyyZWeDhq-Afasm51s

[@ChrisVillagomez]

Apart from Caesar's Legion being literal genocidal savages, what the Institute does in Fallout 4 feels the most evil in all of Fallout to me

[@pinchevulpes]

Degenerates like you belong on a cross

[@krle7970]

According to Fallout lore Enclave are the. “Bad guys”

[@ChrisVillagomez]

@@krle7970 Fallout as a series is great at making the point that just about every faction is bad. The Minutemen were corrupt and ended up splintering and forgetting their mission to protect people, the Institute are almost cartoonishly evil in their attempts to subjugate the Surface World, the Railroad are trying to integrate Synths into human society without taking the time to make sure that the Synths understand that they are Synths and so can't really have kids or anything like that, and the Brotherhood are basically the Institute but with cooler aesthetics and their methods of conquest are different. The New. California Republic is corrupt to the core, Caesar's Legion are completely technologically, scientifically, and philosophically backwards to everyone apart from their weaponry and they are dependent on the wills of basically just Caesar, Vulpes Inculta, and Legate Lanius to hold their armies' cohesion, Yes Man and the Courier's New Vegas is pure anarchy with the NCR and Legion alike being completely pushed out of the Mojave as well as the loss of Mr. House's technological knowledge, and Mr. House's New Vegas is more competent than most Post-War governments in Fallout but still has problems with corruption, outright reliance on technology to maintain power, autocracy under Mr. House, and a general lack of the lawfulness of the NCR. Those are the 2 games I know the most about but every Fallout and even Elder Scrolls game seems very careful to make the "good vs. bad" obvious to an extent while still making their standpoints complicated and understandable. The NCR and the New Vegas government are obviously the good guys to the Legion's bad guy. The Institute and maybe the Brotherhood of Steel are the bad guys to the Minutemen and maybe Railroad's good guys.

[@drakehaggard3583]

And the Legion HAD a plan, a goal, the Institute & Shaun never says their goal besides nuclear power & calling themselves humanities' only hope. The Legion even made the wastelands that they conquered much safer, the Institute just made the Commonwealth all that more dangerous by throwing Super Mutants into the wild, slaughtering entire settlements for tech & resources, & replacing people with synths

[@cheesecakelover3540]

I would join the institute because they have toilet paper

[@solidsnaker1992]

and hot water

[@Lordeightbane]

Clean sheets

[@whereisevan]

Leaves are toilet paper! Just, you know, without the middle-man...

[@newentry.-.8086]

Evan S I thought this said middle aged men. I nearly shat myself.

[@sierravale1130]

youd need some of that middle aged man paper then lol

[@wlessfanable]

After forty three minutes, all I can think of is, "The Path To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions."

[@OuPoot999]

That's not quite what that saying means, but I get you point. The saying refers to: "I wanna do x to help people" and then you never even try.

[@Wanda_FridayNightFunkin]

Good one.

[@Peterwhitlock]

guy skipped the part ALL LIFE IS DYING including the last breeding dathclaws..nothing on the planet is to survive due to the FEV making all sterile and defective DNA...ZERO SURVIVORS EXPECTED ON ALL THE PLANET...so what do you think of his EVIL institute fighting the4 FEV to the end by making bodies IMMUNE to it and then try to make them able to breed eventually and replace life..life breeds synth have to cross that line before or soon after the last institute humans are gone...and that is expected insde of 50 years and none of the kids can make babies as born sterile due to the FEV effect on the planet....the world is ending. WHo started the war? someone pissed off the world was dead and tried to make it a fast less long painful dying period...world died the day they let the FEV out and 1st super mutants walked the surface spreading the FEV all over the planet before anyone knew just how terrible that stuff was/is. extinct dead planet or heroes of the planet save SOMETHING so institute is the only good guys with a correct plan...minutemen are all dead...they just do not know it yet. all are dead! only the synths will last...but will the thing that makes humans emotional and family also????

[@TheGamerperadise]

DS9 reference???

[@wlessfanable]

@@TheGamerperadise Just common wisdom.

[@graemejones825]

Maxon: The Institute are evil, Knight! Maverick: From my point of view? The Brotherhood are evil!

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Maxson: "WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST!"

[@theenderdestruction2362]

The minutemen: "both of you need to shut up or else I'm getting the artillery"

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

@@theenderdestruction2362 AHAHAHA

[@floydlechner2445]

the ender destruction minuteman are little better then the institute

[@Idlemage]

can literally strike on almost the entire map if you put in the work

[@Tomatowormprince]

I felt the institute was too poorly written to really guage them morally, they seemed like Saturday morning cartoon villains to me until I actually went down there. When I actually met them they came off as a very clean vault full of socially stunted eggheads, with hints of amorality. Shaun didn't come off like a sociopath with the options I chose, just emotionally stunted not devoid of compassion as he seemed receptive to my parental affection throughout the institute quest line. I saw him making me director as a display of "love" in the only way he can really process.

[@alpacawithouthat987]

That’s what I had an issue with. They didn’t really seem evil enough to justify killing all of them. They really weren’t that much worse than most people in the Commonwealth. They also weren’t good enough to justify helping them. I just wish there was a way to help them make peace with the Commonwealth and redeem themselves because the Institute is a very cool faction

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

You can say that about pretty much every faction in ES and Fallout from oblivion onward, unfortunately

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@alpacawithouthat987 Which is why you have the option to only kill the mad scientists but spare the residents. The Institute aren't necessarily evil, they're just pessimists who are playing God.

[@ShadowCompany01]

@@alpacawithouthat987 I mean creating the super mutants ain’t really redeemable after all the deaths they caused

[@vamercy8478]

@@ShadowCompany01 or killing everyone in vault 111, killing people to take their place with synths, synths just assassinating people and more. The institute is evil, no good organization would kill others to get their way. That’s the start of totalitarianism/ fascism.

[@pmmeyourdadjokes9811]

One thing we can ALL agree on, is that that explosive sub machine gun you got from cricket is one of the most badass guns in the game.

[@itsyaboitavino3273]

Lol yep. The only other thing everybody agrees on is Preston being an annoying shithead.

[@travisz11]

Spray N Pray is the best gun in the game

[@gallowz1980]

Did one better... made a mini gun with the explosive mod suped up with heavy gunner and explosives expert shreds anything in 3 sec or less part of my Devastator Space Marine playthrough

[@KyleMcdermott-rx4ju]

Gallowz hold up there is a space marine build tell me more

[@Lh47000]

travisz11 What about the "Big Boy" ? Double nuke ftw !

[@Drastivik]

I wish there was an ending where the four factions came to a compromise to manage the Commonwealth. Perhaps the Institute is the technology and bio division, using their technology to help the area around them, instead of just their underground lair. The Railroad could assimilate into the Minutemen, who are the voice of the people. And the Brotherhood can be the Military/Homeland Security of the Commonwealth. Just a thought. If an ending like this actually became canon, it would be cool to see another East vs. West type thing between this new civilization and, say, Mr. House, Caesar's Legion, or the NCR (I kinda want to see them get put down at this point). This would have been the perfect way to make a New Vegas 2. Edit: I've gone back and played New Vegas again, and I've changed my mind about the NCR. They would be a good option if they had the support from their people. I'm just thinking that if they somewhat followed the Minutemen in that they let the people decide how things are run, they could easily establish a functional and commendable society that could rival the East Coast Brotherhood in power and influence.

[@CH3353N1NJ45]

Boston problems require boston solutions, Fuck the Brotherhood of Scrapmetal

[@anthonymichalski9015]

i think the problem having all the factions "work together" is that saying "what does a man with power want ???? .... more Power " I can see the minutemen joining with Railroad and become a rogue entity... i can see the brotherhood being the "military/security of the Commonwealth and having it go to their heads to over throw anyone who oppose them, almost like a coup taking out the in place government and declaring themselves the Gov't. i can see the institute using their technology in a way where they act as if they are helping the other factions yet doing their darnedest to undermine the rest at the same time.

[@domagojgalekovic8507]

That would make 0 sense in Universe. Is this your first Fallout game?

[@ravioliperson4836]

Railroad

[@ravioliperson4836]

@@anthonymichalski9015 BiTcH. The minutemen are controlled by us so the chances that what you said happens is close to non. And the brotherhood would not risk losing all that they have just because they have more power.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Me after blowing up the Institute: “They couldn’t carry a *tune* to save their lives.”

[@aaronrobinson1553]

You're laughing? You killed hundreds of scientists and 2 apes and your laughing?

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Aaron Robinson I know. How about another joke? What do you get when you cross a literally-ill Commonwealth WITH A FACTION THAT ABANDONS IT AND TREATS IT LIKE TRASH!? I'LL TELL YOU WHAT YOU GET! *Y O U G E T W H A T Y O U F & & K I N G D E S E R V E ! ! ! ! ! !*

[@Dalton_Boardman2000]

Vats on head [CRITICAL HIT]

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Dalton Boardman [Shoots Father's headless corpse in the heart again]

[@the_one_titan3381]

Aaron Robinson I activated the evacuation so those scientists are fine

[@nickscott7252]

As someone who became a parent last year, my recent play through of the game after not playing since release has hit me in a totally different way. The love you feel for your baby the second you meet them is impossible to describe and has to be experienced to know it. Playing the storyline, knowing what was going to happen killed me and made me far more emotional than any game should. Even though I knew what the first meeting with father would entail, I got actual shivers down my spine when it happened. The idea that my baby could become a cold, evil leader of an organization preying on the weak… that’s a fate worse than death. So yes, the institute is evil, they killed the sole survivor’s spouse and stole Shaun. What an awful thing to do to someone. Side note though, idk why this game gets so much hate. I think the storyline is AMAZING. The plot twist when you first meet Father… that hit me hard, even not being a parent at the time. But really, the ability of a game to generate strong emotions and the discussion of right, wrong, etc, such as this video is really something special.

[@ashleighelizabeth5916]

I imagine it would be something realizing your son grew up to be the next Hitler or Stalin. Given the fact that OJ's mom insists that he was innocent I have to wonder how many people out there IRL would find a way to justify all the BS their son did if they were faced with this situation. And based on some of the responses I've seen to this subject matter I can say that unfortunately quite a few people would be willing to warp reality as much as possible to still accept their son and justify his monstrous actions.

[@justinkimberlyrowley4465]

All villans were once someone's son or daughter. And they all seem to think they are the good guy. I think they wrote fallout 4 pretty well in that aspect.

[@ashleighelizabeth5916]

@@justinkimberlyrowley4465 It's got some story issues but that aspect is well done IMO.

[@retrogamelover2012]

You know, I think when it comes down to these factions, that someone pretty much summed up what all of these groups were all about. For what they described (and in turn, I sort of agreed with them on), the theme with these factions, and by extent the plot, is basically showing how far a parent would go to re-unite with their lost child, rather than some clear-cut morality thing, for the most part. Whether it be joining a high-tech knightly order of sorts, that unfortunately has degraded into fanaticism and glorified witch hunts, thanks to a change in management. Or a group of scientific geniuses, who unfortunately have become out-of-touch with what it means to live in or govern a society outside their own, thanks to over 200 years of isolation. Or a rag-tag group of liberators, who whilst have good intentions with giving androids more of a purpose in life, than just being a glorified guinea pig, or cleaning appliance, but seem to prioritize that, over other major threats in the Commonwelth. Or even a local militia, who whilst probably are the best hope for the Commonwelth's safety, their need to protect it has come at the cost of spreading their manpower and resources thin compared to the other factions, therefore severely crippling their organization. And on a side note, whilst it may be easy to mock the whole "it's complicated/you wouldn't understand" line, you try looking at it through the perspective of someone that probably grew up on dogmatic/cult-like beliefs, and that might make more sense. Like; "Oh, of course an outsider like you wouldn't understand how drinking the Kool-Aid is the next step to salvation."

[@ranger8155]

the bos in fallout 4 way too evil, and the bos in fallout 3 way too good. they're more akin to the mojave chapter, willing to help people, but keeping to themselves and hiding for the rest of society. can't really hide when you have a massive fucking blimp in the sky. they're flawed, but good at heart. the institute is evil, no question about it. they just are. i like the railroad, but their view is too narrow, they only focus on "rescuing synths" who are really no more than glorified technology, and the minutemen are way too weak of a faction. they make the sole survivor do everything for them. you have to walk holding the minutemen's hand in order to leave them victorious. i blame bethesda's shitty writing.

[@retrogamelover2012]

@@ranger8155 Whatever. I've already had to put up with people's relentless (and argueably ad-hominem at times) complaints regarding the Bethesda-lead titles, which arguably has been more tedious to sit through than most of the stuff those titles could've done better, or left to be desired. Especially when Interplay wasn't really all that pure with their management of the IP, if things like Fallout BoS is an example of that, and therefore they kind of have themselves to blame for losing the rights to Bethesda in the first place.

[@ranger8155]

@@retrogamelover2012 I think you're right about Interplay. They made a lot of poor decisions about their IP's. I don't think the Bethesda titles are awful (excluding 76). Bethesda did a lot of stuff right in Fallout 4, and they helped to bring back the series in Fallout 3. I believe a lot of the issues can be attributed to Emil Paglian- something. He sucks at writing engaging stories (which is why we get Father and Colonel Autumn) and lines like "You wouldn't understand. It's too complicated for you." If he wasn't in charge of every executive project at Bethesda, at least the writing could be better.

[@retrogamelover2012]

@@ranger8155 Well, like I said, I'm kind of sick and tired of that line constantly being put through the wringer, especially (like I said) when that's going to be an answer a person who is highly deluded or brainwashed/raised on some cult-like dogma is going to use. Plus, whilst I'll admit there are some elements that could be left to be desired (I mean, I really find it a shame you can't convince Gage to maybe leave this whole raider business behind in Nuka World, for very legitimate reasons, as an example), but sometimes, I kind of almost question when someone starts to complain when writing isn't "up to snuff", usually, because most of the time (mainly from experience and from what I've picked up from it), it tends to come from a sense of snobbery, or getting spoilt by other narritives, and therefore setting ludicrous standards that virtually any writer is most likely to fail to reach. And that's probably another reason why I'm not so irked about those titles (though, admittedly, that one line Autumn had made me chuckle, if anything because it reminds too much of that "I am the senate" line from Revenge of the Sith).

[@Ayrtist]

“Whilst” is for sure you’re favorite word

[@almisami]

Curie actually points out her synth body is "dumber" than her Mr Handy frame.

[@peterseagrave4051]

almisami That's actually reflected in her stats!

[@TacSon]

Do you believe synthetic flesh is better than metal? And her Miss Nanny body has 3 eyes, scanner, 3 hands, 1 rocket pod up her ass, while the synthetic body only function like a regular human.

[@Hangman1]

More human = more dumb :p

[@shadowgamer4149]

Ms Nanny*

[@madcourier6217]

Tac Son Rocket Pod up her ass...XD LMFAO

[@enjamessimpson]

It seems like the reason for the Child Shaun synth was made to help lead the Soul Survivor to the Institute.

[@Marvin_Aethos]

Or maybe because of Father Being “Shaun”

[@lostresgods1513]

Yes the floor here is made of floor

[@Blackjax137]

That, and as Father states... He keeps asking "What if?" more often with age. He never had a normal childhood, he never experienced life before nuclear fallout that he can remember. So Synth Shaun I'd argue is more of an attempt to experience his own childhood if circumstances were different. By proxy.

[@northside314]

@@Blackjax137 pfft boo hoo for old ass Shaun. You don't get to spend 60 years being an underground synth-Nazi, have zero empathy over the murder of your own parent, then send the other one on a journey to certain death as an experiment- then suddenly decide you have enough of a soul to deserve any sentiments about a life you've stolen from so many people. Shaun turned out terrible and we only have his decisions now to determine what kind of world we want to live in for ourselves as well.

[@kingcamelot1395]

I still believe that Father uploaded all of the Institute's knowledge and technological files into Synth Shaun, where it sits in the back of his head until the time is right to rebuild.

[@_Osirus12]

I believe the Institute led by Father are evil... but once you take over you can change how things are ran to help humanitys survival

[@dahkteromar749]

That is what everyone says who chose the Institute including me. It could be true but in the video there are valid arguments why it may be harder than it seems.

[@ehuanchen3794]

Yeah, either that or - seeing you're an outsider who doesn't know the day-to-day operations of the Institute, the Board of Directorate decides to keep you in the dark and give the illusion that you're in charge. Or if they're more militant, they'd dispose of you quietly.

[@jonathanbaird8109]

What you believe is irrelevant and not canon. Why don't people understand this? You can't apply your beliefs and desires to the in-game story.

[@ehuanchen3794]

Jonathan Baird Absolutely fucking right. I can roleplay as a bad guy, and my actions will not account for the Institute ending. The Institute will likely stay what it is, and do what it has been doing.

[@jonathanbaird8109]

People just have to realize that the story we get is the story we have to work with. You have to accept what the institute is in Fallout 4. You have to accept what the Brotherhood is in Fallout 4 and the previous games that are canon support that. The same goes for every other faction. Trying to add outside influence basically invalidates all the lore they painstakingly include in the game, because you people keep trying to make up your own. Just accept it.

[@RojasRedland]

Ox: But that's just one man's opinion what's your opinion? Me: The institute is whack yo.

[@sten2184]

BEST RESPONSE EVER!!!!

[@jesikalea3633]

OK so..to me, it didnt matter if they were evil. fact is father (my son) made me leader, and I had to stick with im until his passing. He died. so guess what? Im the boss now. So its up to me if "we are a threat or not" (i didnt watch it the whole way threw, but just had to share)

[@chainer8686]

When he said "but that's just" my mind had already filled in "a theory, a game theory" lol

[@syedsadathasan2887]

Same here

[@fourthhorseman4531]

Come on guys, synth gorillas! Clearly humanity's best hope for the future!

[@thesweendog2324]

*Joe Rogan has entered the chat

[@ZetsubouGintama]

Reject humanity. Returen to Synth Monke.

[@pmtoner9852]

Planet of the fake apes

[@capadociaash8003]

@@pmtoner9852welcome to Cryptoland

[@sombodythatyouusedtoknow9046]

*loads Sniper rifle* I am going to make harambe 2 synthetic bogaloo

[@arkade1361]

I just kinda realized the institute is basically what happens if you let the big mt think tank leave the crater

[@thyhashbrown8298]

What you’re supposed to get from this video: Institute bad What I got from this video: Nick valentine uses the word clout when talking about the cpg

[@KoalaLuv]

Blake Baldwin same 🤣

[@catmetal1348]

I was keeping an open mind and being nice to everyone. But then I went looking for Virgil's serum and saw the dead cats that were part of their experiments. In that moment, I said screw the Platinum trophy, it's explosive minigun time!

[@persona8439]

Aye!!!. For the cat!

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Cat Metal Nah use the *MIRV AUTOMATIC PIPE RIFLE*

[@TimTime10]

I didn't know that. What I do know now is that once I have X6-88's max affinity I'm going Nuka-Nuke Father so hard that he wakes up in a cart with other prisoners headed for execution. Then I'll go after the Bio Science division and after that I'll sod off.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

TimTime10 Ah yes Skyrim crossover

[@eddieowen2122]

*people get kidnapped and are never found again: this guy: I sleep* *CAT DIE: This guy: REAL SHIT*

[@bananamodz2847]

In my headcanon, once you become the leader of the institute, you’re able to turn it around. With teleportation, you’d be able to send synths to any settlement across the commonwealth and protect it. Which would be faster than deploying minutemen. The institute could also join forces with the minutemen, basically increasing the ranks of the minutemen and enabling them to protect settlements better. Even though it isn't what happens, I like to think it happens, and over the years the institute slowly becomes the “brains” behind the minutemen.

[@mytotim8978]

More likely you become the brain, the Minutemen the muscle and the Institute the designer from the tech that allow the world to be rebuild. You are the leader, the brain, without you, they could turn evil again. With the heart in the good place, with the Minutemen point of view and the intellect and knowledge from the Institute the world could be great again. That strength will borg the Brotherhood: your military training and power, your knowledge from the old world and your tech will be assimilated, resistance is futil...

[@lewismartin3430]

this is why mods where invented.

[@gaaraofthefunk7163]

@@lewismartin3430 Mods still don’t help the actual lore though.

[@gaaraofthefunk7163]

But with how damaged the relationship between the institute with the commonwealth has been, that would take years if it ever did happen. It would be more likely that wastelanders would die in confrontations with the synths sent to help, because of how evil the whole faction has been since it’s inception. It’d be nice and make sense… but I think that in order for it to work, you would have to be a dictator yourself, so as to keep that as the main mission, betterment of humanity… because a democracy amongst those in it… well… you’ve seen they’re all out of touch with their humanity, right? Even when they’re not… they’re the minority, so their own survival would come first… and they’ve already proven to be glorified raiders 🤷🏻‍♀️ kind of like the BoS under Maxon.

[@lewismartin3430]

@@gaaraofthefunk7163 they do help the janky and hollow end and post game have a modicum of meaning

[@combatpanda4264]

That moment you realize Trashcan Carla is an informant for the Institute. And she's always been at Sanctuary. *Always* 😳

[@jubileechambers2604]

Wait what really damn it but I liked having Carla around.

[@stevemccann4166]

Cricket and even Cait’s old boss Tommy in the Combat Zone were informants too!!

[@helixsol7171]

Now I don't feel bad for accidentally threatening her that one time

[@duncanharrell5009]

Magnolia too at The Third Rail.

[@m3rl1on]

if only you can side with all of them. the minutemen as the government, institute as the RnD, BoS as the military, the railroad as the intellegence service

[@SOULFORESAKER]

Jessen's Channel I like this idea. But power would get to their heads eventually. As long as the Minutemen's values stay as law. But it would be ideal.

[@primetyrant2891]

With the power of the Institute, you can! Simply replace all of the undesirables with more lenient synthetic analogues, you may create a perfect society. No more infighting, no more wars, only prosperity. _message at the bottom courner in really small letters: free will not included._

[@bapabs]

Prime Tyrant English included neither

[@primetyrant2891]

Whoa. Way to be rude, lad.

[@Vallandriel]

Chill guys, both your comments made me laugh haha. =)

[@blaizakin90]

from my point of view the jedi are evil!

[@Rickuo]

Josef Stalin: "from my point of view, every human is a problem."

[@darthvader7783]

Joseph Stalin - Because the Sith have red lightsabers?

[@nicholas4252]

Well then you are LOST!!

[@Rickuo]

"It is treason then" - Stalin looking at a photo of Leon Trotzky.

[@liamwhatever7146]

Joseph Stalin Why couldn’t they Just combine good and evil to achieve equilibrium. That would be a true test of discipline. Plus, one of their lightsaber styles that, ironically mace windu uses a form of, uses anger as a source of strength. Its called juyo and it completely breaks their jedi code particularly the line “ there is no passion, there is peace”.

[@omaralleyne8987]

The moment that made me commit to ending the Institute was when I was tasked with introducing myself, I was reading a terminal in Bio-sciences. I read a terminal about the plans they had for the folks at Warwick Homstead and I realised... they wern't just a bogeyman. They were Monsters. So horrible that these people in a wasteland with no formalised education, knew exactly what was going on. That the Institute was (torturing) killing and replacing people. Every issue in the Commonwealth rooted back to them, before the war, the great war and even now. The institue was never going to make things better - not even for themselves once they wiped humanity out. I just hate that the Insitute couldn't be housed after you throw them over.

[@SwordWieldingDuck]

People like you have long-term planning ability of an average raider. If you disregard emotions, which you of course can't, you will see that everything Institute does will help people on large scale much more. Killing (where the fuck did you take torturing from) and replacing 1 farmer (who was also a useless drunk who was beating his wife and children) nets you as negative 1 dead asshole, happier family and a hope for developing food that will be able to feed much more people than current wide spread sorts of crops. Just the example with Warwick. And pretty much all stupid shit Insitute does comes from devs, who are obviously not scientists. For example, no IRL scientist would consider gen 3 synths a tool. everyone would agree that they should have same rights as humans, because anyone who has very basic understanding of biology and evolution knows that humans are nothing more than biological robots, instincts (emotions) being the same as programming, and higher intellectual skills being the same as computing functions.

[@GazMatic]

@@SwordWieldingDuck I'm a scientist, and thinking that scientists know what's best for society is moronic. How does synths and super humans help anyone? A government ruled by the "smartest" have been tried. Always ends in tyranny.

[@SwordWieldingDuck]

@@GazMatic of what field? Lmao, have been tried? Bullshit, it never was attempted, it never even could be attempted considering most of the history civilizations were ruled by monarchs with hereditary transition of power.

[@GazMatic]

@@SwordWieldingDuck I'm an epidemiologist. Trust me, you don't want a government run by my coworkers. Technocracy has been tried. These were usually the smartest people but like I said before, it always leaders to corruption. Soviet Russia, Communist China and the European Union are examples of technocracies. Their governments were mostly scientists and engineers. 90% in Soviet Russia and 80% in China.

[@SwordWieldingDuck]

@@GazMatic Total bullshit. If anything it was very much opposite of technocracies. USSR was ruled by a secluded class that has nothing to do with science and engineering. If anything. shitty science of russia today is consequences of shitty science and engineering of those days, because scientist and engineers were living about as bad as laborers, which is not acceptable level of income for those professions. Communist China worked exactly like that as well. Can't say anything about european union. Anyway, you pulling that "90% of goverment were scientists" out of your ass, there were 0. Every USSR ruler was a tyrant, and tyrants do not suffer smart people at power.

[@youknowwhoelsecantthinkofagood]

As mentioned by others, my biggest concern with the Institute is simply, “Why?” Sure, they have the tech to make synthetic humans, but why? What problem is that supposed to solve? The only use they seem to have is that they’re programmable and are obedient (except for the times they’re not). Thing is, humanity already had robots that could do basically everything a synth could do, besides maybe blend into a crowd, since before the Great War. And in a world with literally no overarching government, infrastructure, or even decent means of communication, why would the Institute be so focused on making new androids that do nothing but create new problems for other people to deal with? If the Institute truly was, “The best hope for humanity,” then it would be doing things like supporting a new democratic republic, reconstructing buildings, or even putting up new power lines for Christ’s sake.

[@damienchall8297]

the institute were transhumanist when you look at them that way it changes things and they are the best bet for long term for humanity same way house is in new vegas

[@speedingoffence]

An underground, hidden bunker full of androids and powered by a nuclear reactor totally shouts "Good Guys"

[@mannybear4691]

Um blade runner ring a bell besides your implying nuclear power and androids are evil what about the guys suited up like knights killing anything thats not human or at least looks human because the bos hates all ghouls and people with mutations

[@surprisekamikaze8015]

@@mannybear4691 doesnt make a difference

[@Needler13]

@@mannybear4691 the new brotherhood doesn't kill everything non-human. Only the super mutants, FERAL ghouls and synths. All abominations that were created by crazy fuckers.

[@mannybear4691]

@@Needler13 that's wrong they say there going purge the commonwealth of mutants that means good and bad

[@sarahlouise4434]

Manuel Martinez was the way

[@thecursedcontroller8437]

You know, I wonder what James, the lone wanderer's father would've thought of the institute.

[@Eugenia123345]

Same.

[@josereyeshero]

Definitely would not approve lol and that's an understatement remember revelation 21:6

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

"F....quadruple... minus!"

[@chase5950]

"You're wearing a lab coat. You're standing with... men of science. Visionaries. Brilliant but misunderstood. I see a land marked up, like a great experiment. Each test a new beginning. Each sacrifice an acceptable loss. You will not be loved, but you will save humanity. However you choose to define it." - Mama Murphy

[@Milanor221]

Trust the words of chem addicted old woman is not a good choise to me.

[@nonnon9917]

"However you choose to define it" already answer it, the Institue is a bad choice.

[@chase5950]

+ Milanor 221 That "chem addicted old woman" has almost always predicted the future correctly, have you even played Fallout 4? +Non Non "However you choose to define it" means what steps and choices you make as a leader, either way "you will save humanity". Too much for you to comprehend? It's basically third grade English.

[@nonnon9917]

lol, "it" here refer to humanity, not steps and choices, you just misunderstand the sentence. Because the goal of the Insitue is to "redefine" humanity. Mama Murphy basically forshadow that the SS will follow the Institue path of letting the people of the Commonwealth rot and die and "replace" everyone with Synth.

[@chase5950]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[@TheBestSam42]

Shaun referring to the death as “collateral damage” is the main reason I think there is no reality in which the institute is the canon ending. Whether the sole survivor expresses it or not I believe when they hear that line they realise that this is no longer their child, just a sociopath raised by a bunch of apathetic scientests

[@Freethinker_94]

This comment needs more likes and oxhorn said something similar to this in the video and your both right

[@ZRICH7]

You are both guessing

[@nofillergamingknight7319]

personally I think that the only morally justified faction is the minute men. I wiped out the other factions in my playthrough.

[@thatshadyalchemist4488]

Knight 77 Fair Enough

[@tyevans3088]

same

[@holyshaman]

I disagree. They are the MOST but not the only.

[@FaithRox]

SJW's in the apocalypse is just ridiculous.

[@tyevans3088]

Well the railroad can be seen as a morally justified faction, but that is only if you think synths should be free, The BOS has good intentions but they don't care about the people of the commonwealth as much as the minuteman, and the institute can help humanity because of all of their technological advancemants but they don't have specific good intentions for the commenwealth. So I guess you're kind of right.

[@zelliatorsema9579]

Nick Valentine and Dima are not gen 3 synths but still make human decisions.

[@Crazalus]

Dima and Nick are rather special cases... Nick had a human mind copied into his system, (the real Nick Valentine being a pre-war detective, who had his mind copied as part of therapy for his family being murdered by someone he was investigating, as shown by the Eddie Winter tapes) so he is (essentially) human in a synth body, while Dima was never programmed. He had to develop his own mind, and was designed to *make* human-type decisions. It’s worth keeping in mind that the body Nick and Dima have, are prototypes... the neural hardware was a step between gen 2 and 3, and Dima did point out that it included the ability to make decisions.

[@coopergrow3722]

Technically yes but nick doesn't have free will his entire personality and decision making is based off of a dead detective.

[@Crazalus]

@@coopergrow3722 makes no difference... Nick is the mind, not some sentient being that has a mind controlling it, or is forced to react a certain way by said mind. Though, you could try to say it is... Except the only mind there *is* Nick, and what you'd be arguing is that having a mind means you don't have free will. The flaw with that is it applies to Dima as well as the entirety of Humanity, which contradicts the very thing you're trying to argue.

[@damngangpost-productions8549]

They were 2.5 gen Synths. Prototypes really

[@somedudeawakeatlike1am801]

@@Crazalus wait doesnt that mean nick has the consiousness of the original nick

[@Jabatafu]

“Ultimately, the Commonwealth has nothing to fear from us.” Whether or not the Institute is “humanity’s best hope”, the fact remains that Father is lying through his teeth in an attempt to get you to join.

[@bruhmoment879]

If my child turned into a mass sociopathic murderer it is my duty to put him down and deal with all the mess he left behind

[@theharp6249]

Knowing that a place like vault city and factions such as the NCR exists just shows how wrong Shaun is ‘life isn’t going to go away bc a few psychopaths are going rampant

[@lewismartin3430]

while yes the NCR fell into the trap of spreading too thin their at least fucking trying. meanwhile father looks around one of the most empty areas of the commonwealth and goes "nope. they can die for all I care"

[@danielpuerto9987]

The institute is the best hope for the institute.

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

RIGHTO!

[@jacquesnouvel6436]

Exactly

[@darnit1944]

Brotherhood is the best hope for brotherhood. Railroad is the best hope for synth freedom. (Sorry Acadia) Minutemen is the best hope for the people

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

Darren Atm, you’re right that the Minutemen really is the best faction for humanity in the vanilla version of the game.

[@rakentinethewise4305]

14:08 “Just because there’s chaos doesn’t mean democracy isn’t working” I couldn’t agree more

[@bernardmacdonagh9517]

To me when it comes to voting in my experience no matter who you choose the will be a gobshite but at least there the gobshite you choose

[@mannybear4691]

Well i wouldn't want to live in a democracy America is a republic in democracy not everyone is equal so yeah hes wrong your wrong

[@trixzify]

@@mannybear4691 wat wat wat

[@jean-alexandre5594]

@@mannybear4691 you alright bro? That made so little sense that I'm worried you may actually be radiated

[@mannybear4691]

@@jean-alexandre5594 in a

[@MM-id2fp]

Cool video. It's odd that you would even need to point out that the Institute is evil because it's so obvious. What I always thought strange was that some players think they can change the Institute when you become director. No. No, you can't and you don't after the main quest. The board doesn't like or trust you. The second you try rain on their parade, they'll use the teleporter to yeet you to death. And you aren't actually replacing Shaun, you're replacing Kellogg and doing what Kellogg used to do. The guy who murdered your spouse and stole your baby for weird science experiments. Siding with the faction who wronged you so severely makes little sense to me, so I usually blow them up. And if you're the General, then you still get Institute scientists with all their knowledge if you're willing to help them settle in the Commonwealth.

[@seanoreilly9950]

"gunners can also go invisible" ...first courser you encounter wipes out an entire battalion of gunners

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Gunner Brigadiers have invisibility.

[@bonarchy297]

minutemen is the best faction. they actually care about helping thr people of the commonwealth. they dont see wastelanders as lab rats, or untrustworthy with advanced tech, nor do they hide underground and keep their numbers exclusive. want to join the minuteman? grab your rifle and report for duty. one might say this makes them not as professional as factions like BoS, and yeah you are right. they also get access to artillery strikes which is pretty cool.

[@JoeMartinez18]

Well, they are the militia of the area, so citizen soldiers. They have no real goal for the commonwealth, except a world as stable as possible where the people fight for eachother for their own good. The Minutemen however, can fall apart really quickly, even quicker than the BOS or Railroad. With only one corrupt leader or a group of deserteurs the Minutemen fall apart. Their cause is noble and morally great, but that's it. Atleast they know that they need eachother to survive.

[@Sentinalh]

The Minutemen could be the jumping off point for a new Commonwealth Provisional Government.

[@XxTaiMTxX]

The Minutemen actually remind me of "The Rangers" from Wasteland 2. Except, the Minutemen are so fragmented and disorganized by the time the player arrives, that they're scrambling for all sorts of help and recruits. They don't even really have a "central leadership" or a "base of operations". Sure, you reclaim the castle, but it's not like it's a practical location to defend. Basically, with the proper leadership, they'd really be a force to be reckoned with.

[@solluxcaptor6823]

That may be the case. But I've heard of another settlement that needs you help. I'll mark it on your map

[@bonarchy297]

XxTaiMTxX well fallout takes a lot of inspiration from wasteland

[@Hairysteed]

The institute became my enemy the moment they killed Nora and took Shaun

[@magicalmanfromwonderland]

Kelogg killed Nora. It was a mistake.

[@maggi98mw]

@@magicalmanfromwonderland didn't look like a mistake

[@cstains5543]

First time I met "Father" in the game I was carrying the prototype laser rifle from University Point, shot that guy before he did anything more than deactivate the kid synth. Thought that after everything I learned about the multiple massacres the Institute had pulled over the years it was a just sentence for their murderous ways. Reloaded from the last save though to find out he was actually supposed to be the Sole Survivor's son.

[@Qe2egg]

Sounds like something from a movie a parent trying to get revenge for their kidnapped son kills the leader of an evil organization without hesitation, only to realize the man they shot was their son

[@Jackie89000]

"The minds for it like Curie". To be fair, her mind and personality was strongly altered by Vault tec and the one guy who was constantly altering her programming until he felt she was becoming self aware. Most synths don't go through what she went through. Only difference between robot Curie and synth Curie is that she can better feel emotions.

[@beardedgeek973]

Listening to the directory outrage over me as new director: "Smirks in 11 intelligence"

[@stefanelul2744]

@@yannkam2127 he clearly says to the other members that institute already has enought scientist, but it needs a leader

[@swampthing6760]

"I brought you into this world, and I'm going to take you out of it!" - Minutemen ending ftw

[@jdmnissan]

Lol

[@theenderdestruction2362]

XD so true

[@steventalvinzvestal420]

And the worst part is, there are people in real life just like the institute and especially like father, even people who you think you can trust.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Ethical vs Unethical science has been a major point of contention for humanity ever since the enlightenment. Doctors hiring grave robbers to steal bodies for medical experiments in Victorian Britain, prisoners being used as test subjects by the Germans and Japanese during WW2, various Cold War experiments like giving orphans radioactive cornflakes or intentionally infecting people with syphilis etc.

[@DreamersOfReality]

Almost every country on Earth acts like either the Institute or the BoS. It's why we're in such dire straits.

[@G_Silent]

17:54 the Institute is evil because Father wears his clothes in his sleeping pod

[@northside314]

Lol! Only vampires and psychopaths do that

[@OrderRealm]

I always wondered what the enclave think of the institute and the other way around. I'd imagine colonel autumn would see the synths in the same way maxson does.

[@TexasLawbringer77]

Darth Malgus I'm also curious as to how the sole survivor would react to the Enclave (and vice-versa) especially considering his/her background.

[@rampantsarcasm2220]

The Enclave would want to commandeer their tech and bring them under their control, as the rightful government

[@rulebrittania8748]

Darth Malgus I think the Enclave would recruit the SS as well as would probably integrate the Institute or be integrated

[@pieniadz9156]

Enclave hates mutants. Synths arent mutants.

[@rulebrittania8748]

Maciek Pieniążek You're right *but* they are still abominations in the eyes of most people after the bombs

[@pseudonymousgarbage8]

Institute: Creates the closest thing to a real human artificially. Oxhorn: "I'm not impressed with the institute technology. Institute: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

Oxhorn: "You know what yes, yes you are."

[@totmgsrockxd9900]

@Ryan Gunners are a better comparison. The Institute Synth is still much stronger and more annoying than Raiders. Unless you mean the Nuka-World Raiders.

[@MurkyWaters677]

@Ryan No not really. The institute can drop an army of gen 1 and 2 synths and wipe them out.

[@mysticdragonwolf89]

One little plot hole or flaw in the Institutes plans I just realized is - Synths can’t age You can’t just replace a person for the long term - soon those synths will outlive their peers Either they will be found out or have them removed

[@Blox117]

everything ages. eventually they will break down

[@seanfrazee5146]

They could also keep replacing those synth infiltrators with slightly older looking copies

[@otishawkridge2331]

The thing that confirmed how evil the institute is for me was University point. They had technology that the institute needed and didn't want to give it to them, so they killed them all. They were going to sell it anyway, the institute could've simply paid them and it would've been fine.

[@SCP_Wandsman13_13]

What’s more, it boiled down to an error. If the Institute had simply looked before they leaped, no one would’ve died.

[@notsae66]

It's worse than that actually; the colony _did_ want to give it to them. Had they simply asked again, or provided payment (bottlecaps being something they could effortlessly acquire or just produce) as you suggested, they would have gotten the data with no bloodshed necessary. Instead, they wiped them out and didn't even get the data for their trouble. Most of the bad things they do don't even really serve any purpose, similar to this one; they aren't just evil, they're stupid evil.