**CLICK HERE for full video & explanation

[@vince6829]

Definitely a neutral swapped across two circuits. Nice demonstration. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@flatfish72]

Is it the first outlet and light now sharing one neutral, and the other two outlets got swapped neutral?? Should never run two feeding lines in one box😅. Can't imagine if two different phases touch each other, scary.

[@danielescobar7618]

What does that mean? Is the neutral connected to the other side of the breaker box for the other phase

[@connr3158]

That display really cleared it up, definitely a swapped neutral

[@aredditor4272]

Are you trying to be the most popular online electrician, because this is how you do it.

[@mrindependent1]

Dudes the best

[@SayMore11]

Great video ! I just found a live outlet that will not turn off at the panel. This is most likely my issue thank you!

[@ecospider5]

I learned this when I was about 10 years old. My dad always had me help with electrical. He turned off the power to the bathroom lights. Opened up the light switch. There was plenty of wire so he cut off the wire nuts. There was power on the neutral that arched with his wire cutters. He was cutting multiple wires at once. A good amount of metal was removed from those wire cutters. He was a radio repair man so knew electricity, but was still learning the craziness of house wiring. I’m glad he taught me so young so a lot of this is just intuitive to me 40 years later. Especially how important it is to stay safe.

[@jakesully5402]

Good one !!! Thanks man. When your sniffer started beeping on that white wire when you broke that joint, I immediately knew your white wire was carrying a live load from “upwind”, but didn’t consider your crossed neutral from another circuit as an option until this full video explanation. That’s a real cool scenario I’ll keep in mind. I’ve always been taught to use a high level of caution when opening neutrals, even when on dead circuits, and this scenario is yet another reason why….

[@EricSchwartz-sk8id]

Great video! Thank you. I found this exact problem in my house that I just purchased. Thanks for your videos!!!!

[@flyinghigh5531]

The ending definitely made sense. I commented on the short video that I had a bad neutral at the panel one time but you had power off and could still get lit with that setup. Good work. Checking to ground is very important!

[@SchWillburtWhakArnald]

Great subject and presentation. I understood what you were getting at, but your bench display at the end was really a nice touch. Thank you!! from an apprentice ;)

[@davidhargrove1648]

Great demonstration, I actually guessed mixed neutral in switch box before watching second video. I’ve been doing residential for a long time and multi gang switch boxes are where multiple circuits are in the same box. I’ve also had to correct swapped neutrals in j boxes where all 20 were wrong. Basically this is a back feed hazard via the neutral. You can also have back feed on a hot when two circuits have been tied together mistakenly although this usually reveals itself. Both are shock hazard for the next person’s doing any work. Im an American electrician but incidentally in the UK they use ring circuits which actually return to source intentionally.

[@armandolopez7836]

Great demo, thank you.

[@thomasglessner6067]

Thanks for building the display. You made perfect sense to me.

[@niquidog]

Thanks, this can save lives! Great demo and explanation. 😀

[@spirahsass]

Great demonstration. I agree with your terminology. I do have a question about shared neutrals - I had heard the term but never seen it demonstrated. Why would someone do this as opposed to splitting into two wires from the home 14/2? I don’t understand

[@CheMechanical]

Excellent demonstration. As far as terminology, I believe that swapped neutral is the most accurate description. The other two descriptions of shared and crossed both imply that the neutrals are directly connected to each other, which is not correct.

[@brnmcc01]

Yup, a crossed or swapped neutral. These can get really spicy if you're in a commercial building that has both 208/120 and 480/277 volt circuits, and a neutral gets swapped. Modern wiring will use grey for a neutral on a 277 volt circuit, but if the wires are all white, and not clearly marked, it could happen. And it's more common that one would think. Think of a typical big box store, like a Home Depot or Lowes that used to have 1000W metal halide lighting fixtures. In the not too distant past, those would be fed as a multiwire branch circuit from 3 phase lighting system breakers, and have 277 volt ballasts, and 480v rooftop A/C units. Most of the rest of the store equipment runs on 120v. I've heard stories where someone was up on a lift replacing a security camera or heat detector or some other 120v piece of equipment, pull apart the neutral wire, and surprise! It's a neutral from one of the light fixtures that was turned on. 277 volts bites a lot harder than 120.

[@johnrosas2606]

I’m a novice trying to learn. I do know the basics. A schematic would help someone like me. I’m studying and replaying your video to see where the problem is. I’ll eventually get it. It’s just gonna take me a few replays of your video. Thanks for demonstrating this.

[@AaronCunningham]

When the crossed neutrals (@4:45 middle receptacle box in final demonstration) are connected then the lighting circuit uses the receptacle neutral as its path back to the power source. When they get disconnected though, now the lighting circuit (still energized) needs to find a path back to ground. The neutral is hot looking for ground and the other neutrals from the receptacle circuit are dead (but still connected to ground). This potential difference is what gives you 120V and makes sparks fly if you were to cut them.

[@chrisphone74]

Always, Always, Always treat and handle wiring as if it's hot even when you know it's dead. It builds muscle memory and awareness of where your hands, tools and fingers are at all times. Never expect a neutral to be dead. When you're troubleshooting house circuits especially, make sure the lights in the adjacent rooms are off and no 120V appliances are running anywhere. Ask the customer how the problem presented itself and if ANYONE had been messing with the wiring or worked in the house recently. Neutrals are conductors and they are hot when the corresponding hot is energized and under load.

[@renealavarez9969]

Good stuff. 👍.

[@HettycTracyn]

Swapped/cross neutral is definitely a better descriptor for what happened here… Love the demonstration!

[@Stevenj120volts]

@@HettycTracyn thanks

[@ckturvey]

I've had to deal with a shared neutral in my old house with Knob and Tube wiring. Definitely what you had was not a shared neutral but swapped since nothing was really sharing but swapped between circuits. Thanks for the great explanation.

[@MrStreetballer5Official]

Great explanation man, as a guy newish to the trade your original short had me a little confused but this cleared it up easily. Thank you again man appreciate the knowledge

[@tray8411]

Love your channel..Im a DIY in a rural area of Idaho and I saw it was swapped.... Love the demo

[@RP-gi4ch]

I appreciate the video because I have that problem. My limited experience with wiring is going to result in me pulling the entire line out, tracing everything back to the panel, then rewire all of it. I'm setting 2 days aside to do this. Hopefully, nothing "shocking" will be found 🙄

[@danstark462]

Yes I understand. The common from one circiut is spliced unintentional into the commons of the shut off circuit breaker. The white wire is a "common white wire" not a code defined neutral wire.

[@yellowtrain3161]

Awesome 👏 thanks for taking the time to build the mockup.

[@kellym4732]

Good stuff. You explain things really well.

[@cameronharris4028]

This video is awesome. Thank you for putting together a real diagram and getting straight to the point! Keep up the great videos. You’re helping a lot of electricians like myself understand more.

[@crztrtldck]

I would refer to this as a crossed neutral. Very clear and nice demonstration. Great work!

[@Iamdebug]

taking the time to build a demo, these are my favorite types of people and clears up critically important differences. I had never thought to swap a neutral since that's not how things meet code but seeing what happens when it's done is eye opening since it leaves you 120v at current limit of load open for you to sink to ground.

[@mikemoavero3518]

❤great video!!

[@devmeistersuperprecision4155]

I am an electrical engineer now working as an apprentice in a small town. Got to build time. You are absolutely correct. This is NOT a shared neutral. It’s more evil! Remember, no current flow means no voltage drop. Disconnect that neutral and it’s hot! I would always check a disconnected neutral. It could be shared or swapped. Worse is a Y junction shared neutral. Very weird. Here the neutral appears dedicated. But someone added a new branch and tied into the other branch circuit neutral somewhere in the house. So it’s a shared neutral but appears not to be. Turn off the confirmed breaker and disconnect the neutral. That neutral is still hot and you’re not sure why. An hour later and five boxes later you find the modification in the back ass of the attic where you least expected it. If you work on older homes or where handymen have been, check those floating neutrals! Sooner or later you will find a hot neutral.

[@nhitc6832]

Both circuits are sharing the neutral of the homerun from the receptacles. So it's definitely a shared neutral. But in this particular case, swapping neutrals leads to a shared neutral. Now, can you swap neutrals without having a shared neutral? Absolutely!

[@DOUBLE0SEVUN]

What’s a floating neutral?

[@devmeistersuperprecision4155]

@@DOUBLE0SEVUNA neutral with no path back to the transformer center tap. Another way of describing a disconnected neutral.

[@DOUBLE0SEVUN]

@@devmeistersuperprecision4155 thank you!

[@SavyElectric-le5ih]

Very nice explanation. 👍

[@juniperchow]

Didnt get shocked but ran into this during a panel change adding GFCI protection and breaker wouldnt reset found two 20a circuits neutrals swapped. They was sharing the same pipe and the pairs of wires not tagged.

[@David.M.]

Thanks great demo.

[@user-sd8qv8kp7e]

Also different source into same box is forbidden in Europe, it’s 1 phase in or 3 phase.

[@chrispate2788]

Steven, u really do a GREAT JOB explaining and u take time to actually build a scenario, Thanks ! 👍 P.S...Do u have a email where I could contact u ?

[@Stevenj120volts]

@@chrispate2788 [e-mail]

[@cultuuedpetri]

Thank you. This is great info.

[@carlosbarron5725]

I liked your other video where you showed power going back to the transformer through the ground, this one is great too.

[@AD-kr9gm]

Thank you for your videos I’m learning a lot.

[@TheVoltDolt]

Ridiculously well explained.great video, thank you!

[@LukeHoersten]

Excellent video! Thanks for putting this together. If you would meter the neutral to ground in your first example, would that show the neutral as hot still?

[@chrisphone74]

A CAFCI breaker would have found it instantly. I know people bitch about arc fault breakers but they make those situations impossible.

[@okiedoke6373]

Swamped or crossed very good explanation of your definition Andrew illustration of shared neutral was spot on

[@okiedoke6373]

I was in a place one time in my life that I worked in maintenance department the specific infrastructure had a school and a medical facility in which my co-worker was wiring in GFCI 208 volt 3-phase and the other crew had bounced a phase of the neutral in smoke like 25 multiples Outlet strips oh yeah it was quite the sight they emptied the building

[@davidmuller1958]

What sort of neutral should that light have instead of the swapped? Should it carry its own, in order to seperate the two circuits/breakers from each other?

[@danieldarden2857]

Thanks for the videos! I’m a military trained electronics guy so I understand a lot of what you’re explaining, but residential electric is different. I do have a question for you. I recently wired up LED ceiling lights in my home. They had to be wired in parallel, as I learned. As a residential electrician, how would you build this circuit? Thank you so much for your time !

[@Dirtcheapdeals]

easily understood what you're explaining once you laid out the demonstration.

[@El_Rey_Mexicano]

That helped a lot. Thank you

[@kangaroogod]

Great video.. new subscriber

[@bryanreese907]

Good video and demo. So technically, because the neutrals were swapped, what you are reading is voltage on an open neutral. 5:48

[@coreyayers7933]

THAT WAS BRILLIANT. So many tutorialist here blabber, and never get to the point. You explained fast with valid props. THANK YOU, even "electrician u" likes to blabber

[@codwizard7526]

Best explenation video ive seen

[@toochillz5894]

I've got a question, in a panel all the neutrals are tied together, so why doesn't this happen all the time, only when you share neutrals between 2 circuits?

[@waynenocton]

Another great one!

[@MoVader63]

Great job on the video and by terminology yes it’s a swap neutral but technically it is a shared neutral… think this way: in most of the US your house it’s using one leg (of the secondary winding) at the transformer at 240v split in half by the neutral wire; which gives you the 120v to neutral at each side of that winding on your house drop wire A and wire B and 240v between A and B, therefore making your example a shared neutral So when this wiring issue occurs, youre technically sharing the neutral since youre house shares the neutral at the panel between the two wires/phases

[@williamtoney2599]

I ran across this years ago when swapping out a 120 V smoke detector. My meter show no voltage but….. Steve why won’t the meter read the voltage???

[@RichardWhiffen]

Ooo this is a good question and would love to know the answer. My non-electrician, "I took physics in college once" wild-ass- guess is it has to do with path length and resistance.

[@ecospider5]

I wrote this as a response so thought I would post it as its own thing. I am not an electrician but I am really good with electrical theory. So let me try and also understand this. Leg1 is L1 Leg2 is L2 L2 is turned off Power comes up L1 to the lightbulb then down the neutral that ends up being hot. L2 goes to the receptacle through the plug tester to the white wire that is twisted with the actual neutral and the neutral that is hot. Non contact tester does not pickup current it picks up voltage by working as a capacitor. I just read that they do not trigger for voltage below 70v. I’m going to say the tester did not pickup because of how resistance splits voltage. In the circuit L1 to lightbulb to hot neutral wire to actual neutral wire you have 4 resistors. First what is the resistance of a 120w light bulb. W=VxA 120w=120Vx1A Resistance= V/A R= 1ohm L1 zero resistance Lightbulb 1ohm Hot neutral wire zero resistance Actual neutral wire zero resistance. So the voltage across the bulb is 120v the voltage tested from the starting of the wire to the end of the wire for the 3 sections of wire is almost zero. Now take the wire nut off and you have 2 different circuits. L1 Lightbulb Hot neutral Air Non contact voltage tester You The floor Eventually to the actual neutral through actual earth (dirt) Second circuit L1 Light bulb Hot neutral Voltage tester (high resistance) Copper ground. In both those situations the lightbulb is no longer the highest resistance. So it is now part of a voltage splitter. The lightbulb is probably getting less than 1V in that voltage splitter. Leaving enough voltage for the testers to pick up. Lookup resistive voltage splitter if you don’t know what that is. Let me know if you need clarification or you think I got something wrong.

[@jakesully5402]

I think you may have it over complicated, although by-and-large you are correct in your logic and breakdown of steps. Think of it this way… when the splice was broken, the current had nowhere to flow after the lightbulb. No ground path means no current. No current flow means no resistance (theoretically, anyway…), no resistance means no drop in voltage. So the white off the lightbulb becomes “hot” if the light switch is turned on. As long as there was a splice, the current had a happy path to ground, so no voltage present after the load. Current doesn’t care what circuit it comes from, so it flows on ANY path to ground/source. If the light bulb had been turned off, the white would not have become “hot” upon breaking the joint….

[@ecospider5]

@jakesully5402 First you need to remove the thought that electricity is trying to get to ground. It is not. It is trying to get back to the source. Yes sometimes the way back to the source is through the ground but that is besides the point. So I would suggest you replace ground with source in your comment. But a ton of people make this mistake so it is what it is. Sometimes to be accurate things get complicated. My goal was to be accurate. Not to simplify it down for everyone. When you do that you end up with statements like. “No current flow means no resistance” This statement could not be more wrong. If something has resistance it has resistance (unless you are close to zero kelvin) Saying otherwise can make people extremely confused the next time they are dealing with resistance. Yes for many materials increasing the current will increase the resistance. But decreasing the current to zero does not make the resistance zero. It just means the resistance that is there is not affecting the voltage. So your statement sounds good but it is too inaccurate for my liking. But everyone has different goals with their descriptions. I do get that.

[@smbarbour]

I'm just the son of an electrician, but if I understand correctly, this improper wiring would cause an AFCI/GFCI breaker to trip since the return on the neutral would not match up, correct?

[@felaxchow207]

That can definitely cause nuisance tripping since the current sensor in the AFCI/GFCI needs to see equal current flowing from the hot and neutral.

[@reddragonflyxx657]

​@@felaxchow207I wouldn't even consider this nuisance tripping. There isn't a ground fault but can be about as dangerous.

[@DarkpawTheWolf]

Maybe you can give me some thoughts on this one... I removed an overhead light in the living room in my father's house (built in the 1940s). To my horror, there were two black wires in the outlet box. My father says that the (new) light (an LED setup, replacing an incandescent one) would sometimes "turn on in the middle of the night". Now, I haven't got to see this, to verify it, but if it's doing what he says it is it sound to me like this was wired with two hot lines (with one on a switch), OR that second black is reversed with a neutral on wherever the hell it's coming from (this will be fun to trace). Something that turns on in the middle of the night is now completing that circuit, probably at 230V. Certainly would explain why the previous lamp blew out, and the LED is usable from 100V-250V range, so the 230V won't bother it; but it will randomly turn it on. Also worth mentioning is that with the switch off, I got zapped when trying to start on the new light install. So one of those wires was hot with the switch OFF. Killing the breaker (which probably killed whatever is wired wrong upstream of this) shut off the power to the hot line. Bizzaro stuff. Thoughts?

[@GimpGladly]

My first thought was a floating neutral, where everything in the house has essentially become a 240V series/parallel circuit. But you would have all sorts of crazy happening around the house with lights dimming and stuff burning out everywhere. I think in this case, the light has another circuit tied into it between the light and the switch, completing the circuit, either A-N or A-B depending. Going with the little info you have got so far, (let's say the light is on the A leg) I would be guessing the switch is on the neutral side of the light and a B leg circuit shares the lights neutral but tied in between the light and the switch. With the switch off, whatever is turning on automatically on the B-leg is now completing a 240V circuit through the light that effectively has a locally floating neutral when the switch is open. I'd be thinking along the lines of 120V space heaters, but perhaps not this time of year (dunno your region). Maybe a window unit AC or a sump pump? A circuit that is normally 240V or A-B legged doesn't make as much sense given what you said, but I wouldn't rule it out, so it could be the water heater? It would be interesting to get an update if you can get this figured out. Be safe.

[@DarkpawTheWolf]

@@GimpGladly Some good info in there, thanks. Next time I'm at his place I'll have to start ripping things apart and tracing with a tone generator. The main panel was redone two or so years ago, replacing the original one from the 40s that was still in use. This will be interesting to track down...I'll try to remember to come back here and update if I can it figured out. We're in the northeast, so definitely not a small heater. :) He doesn't have a ton of stuff in his house, though, so it surely won't be that hard to figure out what's doing it.

[@jaygosch8705]

​@DarkpawTheWolf Knob and tube wiring is a lot different than wiring done in the 1950's and later. Back in the 1930's, electricity in homes was new and mainly for lights. From what I've seen and read, they had 110 volts, 2 wires, no ground. Some houses had a single circuit for the whole house! And, both wires had fuses! Basically, there wasn't a hot and a neutral. Often, both wires were black, plus they didn't have polarized outlets back then. If a house had a new panel installed and new circuits run, it was extremely difficult to figure out which of the knob and tube wires should be hot. It should be the one going to switches, but not everyone took the time to figure it out. Here are some stories from my experience rewiring 2 houses that were originally knob and tube but had been rewired. You might find them interesting, helpful, or funny. What I found was the houses were only partially rewired. The first one had serious code violations in every room except the bathroom. Lol. There were wires run on the outside of finished walls, ceiling fans with remote controllers laying in the drop ceiling with the wire and wire nuts just laying in the ceiling, the only kitchen counter outlet on the same circuit as the dining room and middle room upstairs, a 20 amp breaker with 12 gauge wire going about 10 feet across the unfinished basement ceiling where a junction box connected it to 3 14 gauge wires feeding different rooms. I started by re-doing the living room outlets - there were only 2 and both in the baseboard. I ran new wire, moved the existing outlets up to standard height, and added additional outlets. That left one old wire that ran up the outside of the finished wall along the basement stairs. At the top, there was a really old doorbell transformer that was no longer used. I was going to just cut off the wire when I thought that there could be something connected right above the splices at the ceiling. I cut a hole and found 2 wires going into the dining room ceiling. Fortunately, there was drop ceiling in the dining room, so I could cut an opening above it and see where the wires went. They were connected to sets of knob and tube wires going toward the kitchen, toward the living room, and upstairs! There was actually a lot of knob and tube still in use! With no junction boxes, it was much more difficult to replace parts of the wiring over several weeks while people were still living in the house. I finally got everything done on the first floor and figured I could cut off the first floor wires. Unfortunately, the light at the top of the stairs stopped working. A little more checking revealed that the "hot" for the light came from downstairs, but the "neutral" came from upstairs! They run the 2 wires somewhat independently, just grabbing a hot or neutral wherever was closest. The second house looked more promising. There were 2 breakers labeled basement, 1 labeled first floor, 1 labeled first floor lights, 2 labeled kitchen, 1 labeled computer room, and 2 labeled bedroom. They wanted some additional outlets, so I started checking what outlets were on each breaker. The basement, living room, dining room, and kitchen all looked good. There was a weird situation in the bathroom. There were 2 identical lights, one on each side of the mirror. One light was controlled by the light switch. But the other one was always on! You had to loosen the bulb to turn it off! I started checking the 3 breakers that I figured were for the upstairs. One of the breakers labeled bedroom turned off one of the 4 outlets in the front bedroom. The other one labeled bedroom didn't turn off anything upstairs. The one labeled computer room turned off that bathroom light that was always on! But except for one outlet and one light, the whole second floor still had power. I tried guessing which breakers it could be, picking ones that had only one basement outlet on, but those weren't it. I finally just started turning all breakers off one at a time. Naturally, the last one I tried was the one and turned off basically the whole second floor plus almost all the first floor lights. I traced the new romex from that breaker panel across half the basement ceiling and toward the wall where a small junction box connected it to the original knob and tube wiring. The "rewiring" that was done was the new panel and all exposed knob and tube wiring in the unfinished basement. There had been a few new circuits run, but there was a lot of knob and tube still in use. I was amazed that when they ran new romex for the first floor outlets, they ran it to just below each outlet, but instead of replacing the last foot or so of wire, they put in junction boxes and used the original ungrounded knob and tube wire. It would have been really easy to use the old wire to pull the new wire up to the outlets and properly ground them.

[@SouthernGuardian]

I ran into a "cross neutral" 2 weeks ago. Took me an hour to figure out what was going on. Crazy

[@brentriggs57]

Thank you sir

[@joelboutier1736]

Ya... thanks for the demonstration. I've heard that called a "crossed neutral" or "swapped neutral". My understanding was that the term "shared neutral" was only the terminology used in multiwire branch circuits where two circuits on a common trip breaker intentionally share the neutral and the current flowing on that neutral would not be considered fault current. What you have demonstrated is fault current. It is wrong. 99/100 electricians troubleshooting that circuit would have presumed that circuit to no longer be energized and would have gotten a nasty surprise. I honestly don't know how you can prepare for situation like that. I myself would have presumed the circuit to have been de-energized.

[@Greg-oo1zm]

I’ve called this a hot neutral. When I first saw this it ended up being a bunch of poorly crammed wires into a single gang receptacle box, over time the insulation flaked away and the power of a different circuit was touching the neutral of the circuit I was called out to service. The service call was occasionally the tv in the living room would act “weird.” and the circuits from kitchen would abruptly loose power. This would happen intermittently according to the owners. The funny part here was it happened as I entered the front door. The vibration of the screen door shutting was enough to touch the previously mentioned wires together. As the circuit was on the other side of the wall to the door. Hearing the homeowner holler “IT HAPPENED JUST NOW!” As I’m bringing in some tools clued me in right away.

[@dennisoberst1846]

So, is this acceptable (tied neutrals) & just something you need to be aware of or something you need to correct by separate neutrals?

[@mds6387]

By definition, that is technically a shared neutral. However, shared neutrals implies it was done intentionally. So, if unintentional (by mistake), then technically it would be called a swapped or crossed neutral. Both are the same thing, but have slightly different meaning when applied in practice.

[@bryanreese907]

Actually I would call it swapped. If you follow the circuits and how it is connected, all (3) receptacles are on the same hot but (2) receptacles are using the wrong neutral (meant for light circuit) and the 1st receptacle is the only one tied into the white wire going to the light. 5:49

[@anothername6861]

@@bryanreese907 With your time, the author showed the demonstration. It is hard for me to see and understand it because he moves around so quick. Don't know why but sure. However, in his original video at 2:23 or so minutes. He claimed when showing the box with switches. He said the outlet neutral is tied into the lighting neutral and one of the light in front of the garage is tied into the same wiring. Then isn't that shared neutral? Lets keep it simple, lets put the outlet and the lighting on the next room on the same circuit. 1 light, 1 outlet (2 neutral wire. Lets eliminate the switch to less headache.) We should see 2 whites tied into 1 and 1 white going back to the panel from that box. For the hot, the black same thing. Lets say they are 2 different circuits: shared Neutral: look exactly the same with the white like the single circuit but the black would be all separated. black complete the circuit for the outlet and the other black complete for the light circuit. Now 2 different circuit: crossed neutral: everything separated. Regard for white, we would see 1 from outlet connected to another white go back to the panel. And same with the light side. In addition, the swapped or crossed neutral we should see the same set up like a proper connection of 2 circuits. I mean I could be wrong, but I think in the end the biggest different between crossed and shared is you should see 2 separated bundle of whites on the crossed and 1 bundle like the video show at 2:23 on the shared neutral set up.

[@stephentorrey8727]

It's not shared though. There is no sharing.

[@anothername6861]

@@stephentorrey8727 Shared neutral = A shared neutral is a connection in which a plurality of circuits use the same neutral connection. Correct me if i'm wrong with explanation not with a statement please. From the video at 2:23 we all can see all neutral wires (from multiple circuits) join into 1 "connection" I don't see how that is the same from the definition of shared neutral.

[@erikkarling2176]

Makes sense. Good stuff.

[@rhocco420]

Steven - you’re absolutely right about the distinction between shared and swapped neutrals. You’re also right that many guys used shared neutral as a blanket term because I guess technically it’s sharing? However, it’s sharing because it’s swapped, not because it’s intended to be a shared neutral 3-wire circuit. Thank you for your efforts, you are helping out trade with each video!

[@nhitc6832]

I would considered it a shared neutral too because both circuits are sharing the neutral of the homerun.

[@nateboyle]

Is this also called an open circuit?

[@LP-bv1rj]

How do you explain it on a 20 amp circuit that doesn’t cross into any lights only receptacles?

[@markstanchin1692]

Yes agreed, swapped neutral.

[@MJCLEAN7825]

Excellent demonstration. That makes it crystal clear what happened. I would also call that a crossed neutral. This is a mistake where a shared neutral is intentional. Good job

[@plandl1]

Im glad I subscribed!

[@nhitc6832]

This is why I never like those big box that can accommodate 2 or more circuits. It's setup for potentially crossed neutrals.

[@alexanderpas]

It's literally a violation of the code (and therefor an illegal installation) to have multiple circuits in the same box. You are allowed to have multiple boxes next to eachother with a common front-plate, but each circuit must be in their own box to eliminate issues like these.

[@H750S]

Why does the tester light as it’s disconnected? Would think that even if it was the hot neutral touching the receptacle, wouldn’t it not light since the hot is isolated with the breaker being turned off? Or is it acting like a capacitor and able to flick the neon lights on for a split second when it first touches but then goes out?

[@matthunter1424]

I don't know what to call it, but it's F*&%$D up for sure!!! More common than a swapped neutral is all neutrals in a box connected together cuz it saves a wire nut! Even from different branch circuits.

[@mikemacdonald2032]

Yes...easily called shared neutral for terminology mistake. But an actual swapped neutral on different legs or phases

[@ImarSchmo]

You forgot the MOST important test! If you were to individually measure the current in each of the four neutrals (using an amp clamp), you'd have immediately known something was wrong. Unfortunately, there are still two 'downsides' here. 1) If the load on the crossed neutral is off you'll never see it. 2) If the load is small (e.g. 50mA) it can be below that detectable by an amp clamp. Because of this, AFTER utilizing an amp clamp it's still advisable to cautiously separate neutrals.

[@demerclopez2622]

Lol thats why i turn off at the main. I have a travel trailer and it has a live somewhere on a circuit because i turned off the breaker to that wire. It only turned off when i unplugged the plug from the rv 30amp cord. So I'm always paranoid

[@alext8828]

A little fast and confusing but it does make sense. Keep the neutrals on their own circuits. The idea of bundling the neutrals is wrong. And that's what a DIYer might do.

[@rickgilbrt]

Definitely crossed neutral. I'm in the DIY camp (40+ yrs). I don't think I'd have made this error, particularly since the receptacle circuit is 12 ga and the lighting is 14 ga. Sounds like an electrician (pro or am) who was was literally asleep at the switch (or receptacle) when this was wired.

[@closertothetruth9209]

in my country where the power comes in to the roof , the bolts that neutral and active cables are clamped formed an oxide that eventually bridged/ made a connection between neutral and active and made a house live even though the main switch and fuse were disabled and killed a girl in the house. there is a plastic divider between the cable connections but it failed, this is a very hot dry climate here snow etc never occurs

[@vince6829]

@@closertothetruth9209 Very sad. Thanks for sharing your story

[@PeteLehmann]

Awesome, you're gonna end up saving a life or two if you keep this up!

[@imark7777777]

Interesting. yes that's definitely not a shared neutral that's a swapped neutral plain as day with it simplified. This begs me to ask the question why shouldn't the two neutrals be tied together in the switch box? I believe this was a recent-ish code change to require them to be separate. But I might be wrong.

[@therealdub2870]

The two neutrals from the lighting circuit (the white from the first 14/2 and the white coming down from the light) should be spliced to complete the path, but the neutral of the receptacle circuit should be separate because it’s from another circuit. The code change is that neutrals from different circuits may only be shared if they are simultaneously disconnected, such as a double-pole breaker which would de-energize every hot wire associated with the shared neutrals.

[@andrewtfluck]

Wew that neutral has some spice

[@nhitc6832]

5:40 why does the test say it's dead when one of neutrals still has current on it because the bulb is still on?

[@tony39572]

This is a strong argument for gfci breakers. Also, makes me wonder how many unexpected gfci trips in residential are from this?

[@ohmbug10]

Just had this argument with a friend who declared himself the best electrician in the world because he wire A house 30 years ago. I'd send this to him but he wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

[@shannon1872]

Not sure if it’s correct but FIL called them back fed naturals. Guessing every area of the world calls them something different.

[@scruples671]

Anything is possible but that shouldn't happen if your working on one circuit at a time and your not into saving money by skimping on wire runs..

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

So, follow up question as I'm not an electrician. Can you explain why there's no voltage until the wires are separated? My non educated brain is going to have a wild guess.... Is it because the second circuit for the light is on a different hot wire and thus gets cancelled out while together?

[@ecospider5]

I am also not an electrician but I am really good with electrical theory. So let me try and also understand this. By the way I think you are right. Leg1 is L1 Leg2 is L2 L2 is turned off Power comes up L1 to the lightbulb then down the neutral that ends up being hot. L2 goes to the receptacle through the plug tester to the white wire that is twisted with the actual neutral and the neutral that is hot. Non contact tester does not pickup current it picks up voltage by working as a capacitor. I just read that they do not trigger for voltage below 70v. I’m now going to say no it is not L1 and L2 canceling out because L2 is not actually connected to anything anymore so there is no energy to cancel out the energy from L1. I’m going to say this is because of how resistance splits voltage. In the circuit L1 to lightbulb to hot neutral wire to actual neutral wire you have 4 resistors. What is the resistance of a 120w light bulb. W=VxA 120w=120Vx1A Resistance= V/A R= 1ohm L1 zero resistance Lightbulb 1ohm Hot neutral wire zero resistance Actual neutral wire zero resistance. So the voltage across the bulb is 120v the voltage tested from the starting of the wire to the end of the wire for the 3 sections of wire is almost zero. Now take the wire nut off and you have 2 different circuits. L1 Lightbulb Hot neutral Air Non contact voltage tester You The floor Eventually to the actual neutral through actual earth (dirt) Second circuit L1 Light bulb Hot neutral Voltage tester (high resistance) Copper ground. In both those situations the lightbulb is no longer the highest resistance. So it is now part of a voltage splitter. The lightbulb is probably getting less than 1V in that voltage splitter. Leaving enough voltage for the testers to pick up. Lookup resistive voltage splitter if you don’t know what that is.

[@ecospider5]

That was fun thanks. Hopefully I did not make any typos which would make a confusing idea even harder. Let me know if you want clarification on anything.

[@Money-yj4wg]

We call that back feeding.

[@SadBoyGerra]

Just had this happened to me yesterday at a job and this video pops up on my recommended??? 😳😳😳

[@hardtime1972]

I've had a black thumb from a live neutral

[@RichSmith-oy7qm]

I’ve always said open , loose , crossed neutrals can do funny things

[@talhamughal7416]

If you turn off the light switch, the return phase will not come. Am I right?

[@Stevenj120volts]

@@talhamughal7416 yes

[@manuellastrollo2168]

then why you use your meter😊 if it won't make you safe

[@bernardocisneros4402]

I would call it a swapped neutral.

[@scottkennery8786]

What if neutrals were all together not crossed?

[@davidhargrove1648]

This is a more common mistake in multi gang switch boxes with multiple circuits. It poses less hazard but does create an imbalance in neutral return amps. Most likely cause problems with GFCI or AFCI breaker tripping. Neutrals must be kept separated and designated to the circuit they serve only.

[@KetchumCulpepper-c9v]

It works now.

[@KillerBreeze420]

Isn't it just a hot ground?

[@kevinkeen2450]

And you never checked neutral to ground before you took it apart. It should always be checked too.

[@Stevenj120volts]

@@kevinkeen2450 lol

[@kevinkeen2450]

​@@Stevenj120volts I knew that would be funny, lmao. But you're exactly right, always think of it's all hot.