Detective lt. who identified Oxford victims takes stand at trial of shooter's mother

[@myalightseeker]

This judge needs to stop being a mom to this defense attorney!

[@marandaturner942]

The defense has a right and obligation to do what shes doing. This is the entire issue with this trial. Your feeling is not the law.

[@sueloo8305]

​@@marandaturner942...Oh oblivious friend.... the original poster is only stating what 99.9999% of us are noticing. It is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that this judge is either incredibly biased toward the defense or she is just not qualified and in way over her head. Just FYI... I have been on a panel that investigated claims of judicial misconduct... So I kind of know what I am talking about. Just my little opinion 💯🤨👏

[@CowboyGirl007]

​@@sueloo8305agreed. She's not a good judge. Doesn't control her courtroom, attorneys. Also can barely hear her. Not a strong presence in the room. I try to remember if judges give in more to defense so they can't claim biased even though it's the States case.

[@stephernoodle]

@@marandaturner942let’s be real, the defense has been extremely unprofessional throughout the trial. The outburst over the laptop, outright crying in front of the jury, yelling at the judge about having to deal with too many pages of text messages… it’s ridiculous.

[@daynasafranek7807]

She uses the entitled defense. She’s awful

[@876noortje]

I wonder if Ethan’s parents would have taken him more seriously and gotten him help, if he had made drawings and notes of him killing his parents?!!!

[@elyssasims2970]

This defense lawyer seems like she’s watched a bunch of legal shows and movies and is just repeating things she’s heard. Like she’s “playing” lawyer. 🙄🙄

[@rickallen6378]

Yeah, but she's kind of hot.

[@elyssasims2970]

@@rickallen6378 just like in the movies!

[@songbirds3712]

She is a Perry Mason wanna be….and she is failing drastically.

[@kimberlynance2711]

@@rickallen6378really?

[@brooks564]

I think Pam Beasley from The Office 😆

[@melissaholleron719]

This is horrific and heartbreaking. The students, facility and police can never unsee this.

[@daynasafranek7807]

The defense attorney criticized him for not having experience in mass shootings… if she has experience as an attorney, is more like it!

[@carencarlin4101]

This trial is a circus. The judge is obviously taken sides with the defence.

[@CoolCucumber710]

ENOUGH with the speaking Objections. Judge, please take control of your Courtroom.⚖️⚖️⚖️

[@KD9YCE]

Objections are part of normal court proceedings.

[@loveforeignaccents]

@@KD9YCE Objections are; speaking objections aren't allowed.

[@carborundorum]

Seriously! I guess sidebars aren't a thing there.

[@Whitey2716]

If this is the defense attorneys strategy, to act like a petulant teenager, it’s working. She’s getting under the prosecutions skin and annoying them…she has no actual defense for her client so this seems to be her trial strategy….act dumb, whine to the judge you’re doing your best, object on feelings, and just be terrible at her job.

[@jennipeach2565]

Weak judge and awful defense..cry baby Shannon

[@Wherever56]

The judge, I've seen her chewing , yawning , she is rude

[@lisal2018]

Mrs. Crumbley did not want to take him home because she was getting busy at Costco. She left him in school even though him may have been suicidal. Unbelievable. Lock her up. School failed too.

[@ShirleyJohnson-xd9vj]

If a school counselor had called my husband and me in and had a discussion as these parents had and wanted us to take our child home..they would not have had to ask twice...my husband and both worked days, but one of us would have stayed home with a child and been on the phone getting an appointment for immediately if not sooner! Her boss testified she could have time off that day!

[@SusieQ1971]

😅 of course Jennifer didn't want to hand over her cell phone. She didn't want the cops or her husband or her boss or the world to find out she was banging the fireman in the Costco parking lot on work hours lol. I would be so beyond humiliated that that came out in trial on top of the Adult Friend Finder app trying to add a 3rd person into the sex in the car at Costco 😂😅

[@carencarlin4101]

Must of been horrible to identify these kids 😢😢😢

[@IsaiahChatman]

I thought about that too. What an awful job.

[@clandestineworm]

I feel for everyone who had to watch the surveillance video of the shooting. Especially the man who had to watch it over and over again.😟

[@chrisx5127]

Where is it?

[@obscurity3027]

This whole thing is playing out like a high school mock trial. It’s really difficult to watch, honestly.

[@stephernoodle]

I’m no lawyer but if he is the declarant testifying about his own conversation… how is that hearsay

[@ritamae-jy7tm]

Mother cared more for her horses than her SON!

[@jborden18]

Tell me about it!! I don't even have kids and I feel more for this kid the she does

[@wendybrunell8898]

The fact that Ethan got a public defender while the parents hired and paid for defense attorneys says it all.

[@obscurity3027]

The crazy thing is his public defender did a far better job than this young inexperienced hired attorney!

[@marandaturner942]

Why would you get a good lawyer for someone guilty and never a chance of getting out, its a waste of money. There's a reason no other parents in the country have ever been charged, you can not hold 1 person responsible for another's crime, even if their relatives. This whole thing blows my mind, everyone should be terrified pf whats going on here. The state interferes with parenting and discipline and then holds you accountable for the the kids that comd out of it. Tons of people have less than perfect parents, this is all perspective, you can say ohhh they took him to the gun range but I say they were trying to teach him and relate to him woth something they liked in a safe environment. This whole thing is just the state doesnt morally agree with you so you're guilty, it's nuts. The judge also let the defense have it the very 1st day of trial, shes gotten right with both of them. There is a reason she's trying to appease the defense, its called the appeal process, she has to be fair and I think there definitely will be an appeal if she's found guilty, this is all kind of ground breaking stuff.

[@TakenTook]

@@obscurity3027-- Agreed. His public defenders were also very thorough in terms of calling witnesses. I wish everybody watching the trial of the mother would go back and watch the Miller hearings for Ethan, to have a full understanding of just how neglectful and horrible his parents were, especially his mother.

[@TakenTook]

@@marandaturner942-- The neglect and irresponsibility of these parents went well beyond what you are talking about here. Please watch the videos of the Miller hearings for her son for the full context.

[@jborden18]

They drained the boys' banking account, too!! Leaving just 99 cents!!

[@shevawnmacdonald4282]

This judge is determined to help the defense

[@lildebboston455]

Agreed. Maybe she's dating the Defense Atty 🤨

[@Chasing_Jamie]

While I agree, I'm sure her reasoning is to make sure that she isn't the reason for a mistrial or appeal. The best bet she has right now for an appeal is ineffective counsel. Shannon Smith is horrible.

[@thegreyhoundgirls536]

@@Chasing_JamieI actually heard an “expert” say that he thought the judge was doing an excellent job. 😳 Aaaaaah, yeah no!

[@shanedm3396]

@@thegreyhoundgirls536thanks for your expertise

[@rosehuehmer7963]

Is there a legally anything that they can down to remove her meaning the judge who knows nothing

[@beverleykeller5950]

This defense lawyer should of NEVER of taken this case,she is to scattered brain,whinny, unorganized, does not seem to understand the position of how to defend, She needs more training with a real Defense lawyer for experience! She would drive me crazy! Did the gentleman that was sitting at the table starting of the trial quit??? She can't keep whining she is alone and can't keep up!? She needs to learn more professionalism! Have to feel sorry for her!

[@Chasing_Jamie]

She took on this case because of the media that would be on it for sure. She also was the def attorney for Larry Nassar and multiple other SA offenders. At the very least, she should have a co-counsel and team that is working behind the scene constantly, even if its on her dime because this is not a good look for future clients to see. She took the case on, she took it on by herself and she is setting it up for Jennifer to appeal with ineffective counsel... maybe that's the plan?

[@thegreyhoundgirls536]

And she’s getting paid for this 😳 She’s not a public defender. Ethan had a public defender but of course not mom. She had to get a private lawyer & I’m sure she’s not cheap although she’s truly awful.

[@SusieQ1971]

They said it was like $200k for Shannon and her partner to represent the Crumbleys. So I'm sure after selling their house to pay them there's no money left for appeals or anything else.

[@usakiwi1986]

I thought when Jennifer texted Ethan "Don't do it" she was referring to him not taking his own life?

[@Fuzzeej71]

I thought the same.

[@ShirleyJohnson-xd9vj]

I thought the same thing!

[@SusieQ1971]

That's what she claims. Because the school counselor told her he was concerned about S.I.

[@crimegeek]

The parents are a piece of work.

[@mazza_razzza]

Yep, and some decent people can't have children.

[@Pat6670]

Complete losers

[@bluejeanistic]

The way they ran and left their son speaks volumes! Disgusting!

[@bluefidle]

Just like so many more.

[@IsaiahChatman]

Prosecutor Karen MacDougal is a baaaadie 👩‍⚖️🔥

[@twylareece750]

Since when does a judge sustain a defense’s objection without letting the State speak??!! There has to be some kind of relationship between this judge and the defense attorney. Related in some way cuz of all the favoritism this judge is showing to the defense attorney. Makes me sick how blatant it is.

[@bobbyd6680]

As often as not.

[@debmainas]

It's 'possible that the powers to be do not want this trial to set a precedent in Michigan law going forward.... a log jam for the Juditial system!!

[@rosehuehmer7963]

Why does the judge FAVOR the whining, rude, seeking like she did when she hugged the mother of the shooter… Why is the judge favoring her? Why I really want this judge to go

[@rosehuehmer7963]

I certainly understand she is doing their job but the judge is definitely not being fair in this case at all and she’s asking questions that she should know the answer to

[@susankrulikowski1732]

Rose this wasn't the judge in the parkland shooting.

[@Michele-zn5yi]

Whoever is coughing needs to leave. Go home.

[@mariapulley2190]

This is ridiculous!!!! At this point, it’s the prosecutors against the judge and the defense!! This judge has to be related to the defense attorney, she treats her like a family member! This defense is a spoiled brat ! with nooooo professionalism!!! I have never seen a judge allow a defense attorney to control their courtroom!!! This is a mistrial based on the judge and the defense!!!!!!

[@nicgraham2519]

I was thinking that too. Almost like when it’s family or something and you feel like you can’t be too harsh! Waffling away and not wanting to upset the defence attorney.

[@mariapulley2190]

@@nicgraham2519Yes! she is too lenient! and has yet to hold the defense accountable for her behavior!

[@cathyc.2512]

Whoever is coughing sounds very sick and should not be infecting everyone on the room. STAY HOME SICKIE

[@Karen-hl8hq]

Wish the Judge and defense attorney had been replaced with professional adults, and the chronic cougher removed at least to further distance from recording equipment. Who was in charge of this s---show?

[@stephernoodle]

The coughing has been every single day of this trial every few minutes!! It’s so annoying and you can barely hear over it

[@redbeardryan8391]

I agree completely. I can remember watching several trials with my parents growing up and I’ve been to court to watch my sister (lawyer) and I have never seen anything like this trial. It’s bizarre!

[@redbeardryan8391]

And the cougher sounds like they have their own damn mic on their collar. My God!!

[@MaraCrocker]

There’s always a cougher at every trial! Like geez, take some ‘tussin!!!

[@ShirleyJohnson-xd9vj]

I know places where the coughing would not be tolerated..the judge would ask the person to leave the courtroom...hope it is nothing contagious..like Covid???​@stephernoodle

[@labitcoineragt3596]

How is that hearsay 😂 he was there and he was the one interacting with Jennifer lol 😂 that defense attorney is one of those mean girls in high school lol

[@christinabutler7142]

More like the dumb girl who believes she's got all the answers. Ignorance and power are very dangerous together.

[@declan92100]

What is going on with this judge?! Defense attorney objects on "hearsay" to the guy who made the statement and the judge sustains? Judge and Defense making a good case for appeal

[@mistymac9345]

This detective looks like the quintessential police detective. Smart and consice

[@chuckp2434]

What a mess

[@ninaalmeida1981]

RIP all the victims. Ethan should have never done this …. His parents failed him. He was begging for help in his own way…. No one caught on except the Guidance Councillor. I noticed that the GC is still on leave. Look in the backpack….

[@TakenTook]

The teacher who noticed the drawings on the math paper was also one of the people who took the situation seriously, and brought it to everyone's attention. But so many other grown-ups dropped the ball.

[@arizonadreaming4183]

No the head of the school said they couldn't open the backpack, yet they could have asked the parents to do it ..

[@ninaalmeida1981]

@@arizonadreaming4183 thanks for the info

[@TakenTook]

@@arizonadreaming4183 -- I'm hoping it will become standard procedures for schools around the country, when there is a concern great enough to bring the parents in, that they automatically ask the parents "Can we search the student's locker and backpack, etc." And if the parents refuse, I hope that the next question that will become standard operating procedure is "Do you have guns in the home, and is it possible that your child could have brought one or more weapons to the building?" And then the final question that should become standard operating procedure is "If you do not give us permission to search these things, will you search these things right now, and confirm that there are no weapons present? And then please sign this form attesting to the fact that you have searched your child's belongings, there are no weapons, and that you will be legally responsible for any harm that comes to your student or anyone else if there is indeed a weapon that you haven't told us about." Then we maintain the privacy of the child, but the parents also understand that they have to be responsible for preventing their child accessing firearms unsupervised.

[@jborden18]

Exactly what I was thinking, the parents failed the boy in every sense of the word!!

[@maxinewoolrich6454]

Thank you for fantastic coverage. Watching from the UK

[@sueloo8305]

WOW!! Usually my commentary consists of.."HOLY MOTHER OF GOD SHANNON.. SHUT UP..GROW UP AND SIT THE F**K DOWN!!". Today however I am highly distracted by how wonderfully handsome Lieutenant Hotness..(oops sorry.. I meant Lieutenant Sam) is. I'm 62 years old and I NEVER pay attention to good looking anything. Lieutenant Sam however is kind of flawless and beautiful. Also his testimony is EXTRAORDINARILY CREDIBLE!!💯💯

[@IsaiahChatman]

I think you just like the detective 😉🤣

[@shanedm3396]

Give him a call Sue. Ask him out. What do you got to lose?

[@sueloo8305]

@@shanedm3396 .. Well my friend.... that ship has sailed. I'm a 62 year old momma of 5 grown kidlets and granny to 3 grandsons. Maybe I can reverse quantum leap backwards 30ish years... lol.😂💙

[@shanedm3396]

@@sueloo8305 Well at least you can admire beauty from afar. Nothing wrong with that.

[@sueloo8305]

@@shanedm3396 . Ahhh yes. Since I rarely ever leave the house.. hence my nickname.."houseplant"... I am very skilled at admiring from afar.. 😂

[@Leigh3420]

Wow this is the calmest I’ve seen the princess 👸 good job Shannon the Judge AKA your mother is so proud of you!

[@kellyprioleau7567]

I hope these police officers got therapy after this!

[@ShirleyJohnson-xd9vj]

Probably will not though..they see a lot of hard things and keep going! And paramedics do the same! God bless our LE and 1st responders! And also the educators and other school personnel from that day....

[@fedupwitumboth]

Living in the community I’ve been told many are still in therapy.

[@jvildeb8818]

What is up with this lawyer. Asks the question and then cuts off on the answer. She is terrible. Removes the person coughing next time, it is annoying.

[@fedupwitumboth]

Just so heartbreaking … hard to watch. All those poor babies and their families. And the children who are impacted still today. Can’t even imagine the devastation these families have suffered. 💔

[@jansliger8655]

Shannon needs to hire some help

[@MaggieMaeMatt]

OMG this is so hard to listen to because of BAD LAWYERING and WTF? JUDGING. Crazy

[@jborden18]

I'm so curious to see how this trial ends!!

[@KD9YCE]

My biggest take away from all of this is that a lot of commenters don't understand how normal courtroom proceedings work.

[@etmoiaussi899]

Mine is the amount of people who listen and do not hear

[@loveforeignaccents]

You're the one I just replied to give you some insight into your misunderstanding regarding speaking objections, and you think others don't understand? Oh, boy, you're a silly goose!

[@yankeeedandy]

what is sad is that his parents finally gave a damn to text him back after he did this. Tragic all around. Not excusing his actions. He could have made other choices. But it’s so sad how negligent his parents were. Always an excuse for their apathetic behavior.

[@mckus20011]

It is so odd how people answer to the jury and not the attorney questioning them. I automatically think of Amber Heard.

[@stephendowling9050]

Attorneys often ask witnesses to address the jurors. Most professionals already know to direct information to the jury.

[@Michele-zn5yi]

The judge sucks. She isn't paying attention.

[@Sonworshipper]

This is infuriating

[@SavannahHybridCubs]

Now she wants to answer. One thing that made me upset, I have twin boys that are 14, never would one have to lie about ghosts and demons wrecking the house to get my attention two days later and then shoot up a school. Now she answers him. I hope that sunk in. He told her this never happens until I’m home alone, text ur dad. He wanted her attention like wtf he was screaming for it!

[@fedupwitumboth]

Neighbors said he had been left alone while his parents went to the bar since he was 7 yrs old. The neighbors used to give him food and company. Some ppl don’t deserve to have children.

[@kimthreadgold2755]

If she annoys us. Just think about the jury

[@lisamaria661]

Words can not express the horrific devastating loss.

[@kimberlychelen9890]

Those of us not present during this nightmare only have to imagine it. Think about actually living through it, or not living through it. How does one heal, ever?

[@ISEEKSPACE]

My god this defense attorney is absolutely terrible 😖

[@markblain8438]

The worlds tiniest court

[@cara5430]

The defense attorney is very annoying! She needs to go back to the basics of law school.

[@TheOnlyGuitarFather]

Growing up my buddies dad had a room full of rifles and pistols. And he hid his key above the washer. . He thought his 14 year old son didn’t know where the key was. Should he have been charged if my friend and I used those guns in a crime? No gun safes. No locked up ammo. Just a locked wooden door with a cheap padlock. I’m curious

[@fedupwitumboth]

I’m assuming that was a long time ago but doesn’t really matter because no one did get a gun. The gross negligence occurred when they went and actually bought their 15 yr old a 9mm while knowing full well that he asked for mental hlth treatment and was seeing “demons” in the home….seems like it would have been a no brainer that you don’t want to buy someone like that a gun. Gross negligence …not just a bad parent.

[@nycatlady2314]

Maybe. There’s a lot more to this story than your example.

[@lindahikes2760]

What a terrible job this detective had. I can't imagine.

[@jennydickson-e4d]

Defence attorney and darrell Brooks need to relearn the law and when and how to object

[@CMP6111]

Omg Shannon🤦‍♀️…I mean “Karen”! Judge is weak🙄

[@LORRAINEREAD1]

This judge 😡

[@ginge_binge]

This judge and defense attorney are terrible!

[@BeegirlsHoneyHouse]

This defense ? attorney is the most preposterously poor representation I’ve ever seen‼️🫣🇺🇸⚖️Is she court appointed⁉️

[@rowenareinertsen4749]

I’m finding this defense attorney is desperate to prove something. To the point of sounding like a little child who wants her way. And this judge is letting her get away with it!

[@MyVisibleLife]

So much respect for this and the other police involved. Having to witness such senseless barbaric murder of children. All whilst also protecting the other children from being traumatised by the sight. I know how the sight of a dead loved one can be haunting. It’s so awful to think about these young people being ended in such a way. I pray for all involved.

[@TatumSwagmaster]

It’s like the defense was trying for a mistrial with all of the distracting and unnecessary objections

[@Jen_Jen.165]

LOL wtf is the defense lawyer saying how can his own recollection of what he said himself out of his own damn mouth be hearsay??? Omg this trial is raising my blood pressure

[@briannumme9337]

I would have corrected the defense lawyer that I’m not a detective, I’m a lieutenant.

[@TroyJScott]

I’m with ya on this one Doc. Not Guilty

[@howdydoody1233]

Incompetent defense attorney. I’d want a refund

[@shelleysprinkle873]

Female lawyer has got to be the very greenest lawyer ever

[@babygirlsarah5]

Does anyone know where I can find the part or person who explains how and where they found Ethan??

[@Jacqueline888]

this isn’t ethan’s trial it’s the moms trial so it might not be covered here. i believe ethan took a plea deal so there was no trial. might not be a video of that information. you might be able to find body cam of him being apprehended.

[@lisadavis9535]

In the vice principals testimony, she speaks a little bit about that

[@jesmichel]

He came out with his hands up and gave himself to law enforcement

[@babygirlsarah5]

Thank you everyone !

[@TakenTook]

Also find the Miller hearings in Ethan's case, with lots of background about how it got to this point in the first place, There were many hours of videos here on KZbin, showing the testimony.

[@gloriahoyle3949]

That judge needs to be taken off the bench she has no control of the court room. The school also has to take responsibility for their part. I'm surprised in today's world that they didn't check that backpack before the parents got to the school.

[@Jen_Jen.165]

What is going on regarding the objections drama they are acting like children and it’s disturbing to watch

[@ninamcgrath3053]

I wouldn't be surprised if the crumbleys sue the school.

[@kimberlychelen9890]

Rriiiigghht?!?! I wonder if they can, whether convicted, or not.

[@fld9201]

I have a question about the oath/affirmation. I'm watching from the UK and whenever I testify in court, as I have to do from time to time with my job, I always affirm (I'm an atheist). The UK affirmation is: "I solemnly, sincerely and truly swear and affirm that the evidence I shall give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." As it's an affirmation, God is not included. In this case people are asked: "Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, so help you God." This seems to me very odd. Are people swearing or affirming and if they're affirming why is God included? Can anyone help me with this.

[@fedupwitumboth]

It’s been a long tradition.

[@darrylg3861]

God has not been mention in any USA court I've been in for 20 years

[@christinabutler7142]

Because this country and it's freedoms were founded with the freedoms of faith. Although watered down more now, God means many different things to different people. Your belief, your faith is in no god. The swearing in is as meaningless as the oaths taken by judges and lawyers. Liars are liars, cheaters are cheaters. People are either going to be truthful or not. So does it really matter?

[@oldsol2012]

It raises the gravitas of swearing the oath. Not all courts use the word God. It is traditional, and I agree with another poster, saying that it has to do with the founding of the country.

[@jennipeach2565]

This judge ponders to Cry Baby Shannon...I've never come across the likes of this. Neither are on my respect radar.

[@normahinojosa1229]

This judge is H.O.R.R.I.B.L.E.!!!!!

[@BantheBans]

The defense cross is just asking him to repeat his testimony lol

[@MsTya2U]

Premeditated

[@Leifmommy]

Another good-looking young Detective hahaha eh wow

[@christinabutler7142]

This judge and the defense atty are completely incompetent! Whoever voted for this woman must be either paid off or as ignorant as she is! Both should be disbarred. And the judge should be removed immediately!!

[@Jen_Jen.165]

The defense lawyer reminds me of my toddler I swear. Same whiny attitude and lack of respect or sympathy to anyone. Just seeking to prove her point no matter what and when she doesn’t get her way she whines and stomps and complains it’s not fair 😂😂😂

[@Rileygirl746]

The defense attorney brings nothing new. I think she just has to get up and repeat what the other side and witness has already testified. Wasn't she listening? She doesn't even offer innuendo that we could have missed or misinterpreted the witness. Did she really pass the bar?

[@lacynovich1976]

The crazy actions of the defenseduring this whole thing ....makes me think they knew they would loose and they are banking on a appeal... for bad representation, misconduct or something to get her off....crazy weird

[@markblain8438]

The magic backpack.

[@GraceRoberson]

Is the shooter an only child? Just wondering

[@fedupwitumboth]

He is the only child of Jennifer and James. James has another son that lives in Florida from a previous relationship .

[@sallytrued3804]

THAT JUDGE IS PURELY PATHETIC.......

[@fedupwitumboth]

Yeah she’s really rather embarrassing as a representative of Oakland county …. Wow.

[@jennipeach2565]

This judge ponders to Cry Baby Shannon...I've never come across the likes of this. Neither are on my respect radar.

[@jennipeach2565]

This judge ponders to Cry Baby Shannon...I've never come across the likes of this. Neither are on my respect radar.