Brian Leftow - How Free Is God?

[@andrebrown8969]

I cannot force myself to believe in a god. I have tried and when I was younger I was brought up like that, but I always questioned it and always came up with 'This does not seem right!'

[@andruman33]

depends on what you define as a god. I was a die hard materialist for the 95% of my life. please watch this and see if it maybe gives you some new perspectives kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWGXg3uHZt6mmJY

[@bencutter9084]

This guy is mental.

[@waerlogauk]

Apart from the last 100,000 years (and only on earth) we live in the bad bunny rabbit world. As far as we can demonstrate sentient life exists only on earth and has been repeatedly subject to almost total extinction. We exist in a recent stable environment which we assume is normal.

[@JAYDUBYAH29]

Next up: can Santa choose to go on strike at xmas?

[@brentonbrenton9964]

God is Consciousness up the fractal chain from the perspective of 'one'. Just as our consciousness is 100% free to daydream whatever we want, take that freedom to an infinite degree. Our universe is the dream of God. God can dream all things (all universes, even non-universes) - and as infinite consciousness that is what God is and always will be. Unchanging (as consciousness dreaming) and forever changing (contents of the dream). We are fractal separations of that one consciousness - our unity with the greater One hidden by our ego. Time is a concept that God uses to form the boundary of this dream - but infinite consciousness can dream whatever it wants. You can experience timeless states of consciousness... and when you do it feels the most natural thing, like going home.

[@edherwick6995]

Seems like a decent man, but where exactly does he get this information and the charter to express it apodictically??

[@v838monocerotis9]

He contorts himself in such a way that he can press his ear directly against his anal sphincter, and it whispers sweet nothings about god to him. That's where he's getting his information.

[@8slkmic]

His a$$.....

[@sinancengiz7866]

when you look around how world is full of unnecessary suffering of all living things,in my view god is either don't exist or god is a sadist who created this incredibly cruel system.

[@sinancengiz7866]

@@Skyhigh275 jesus is my favorite fiction character actually. :):)

[@TomAnderson_81]

Sky High on what basis do you say what is good or evil?

[@pmcate2]

​@@Skyhigh275 Think about every instance in which you thought, 'that person has good/bad morals' or 'this situation is good/evil'. I think you'll find in every case we say people/things are good/evil based on whether or not it/they may threaten our well being or existence. So from the persons point of view, a bear attack is 'evil', but from the bears point of view, it is 'good' because it provides a meal. And so what if these views don't match up from different perspectives? It's not like it is a logical contradiction. I really don't get why morals being relative is such a controversial thing. And if you think that a god is necessary to judge all things from, well you can ask the question what makes god's point of view correct? Are you sure it's not the fact that if you don't abide by his rules he can punish you?

[@dankuchar6821]

I don't think God can interfere with free will.

[@TomAnderson_81]

If god is free, then he is free to lie and if your god cannot lie, then he is not free.

[@TomAnderson_81]

Sky High If god is free, then he is free to lie and if your god cannot lie, then he is not free.

[@TomAnderson_81]

Jim If gods nature is free, then he is free to lie and if your god cannot lie, then he is not free.

[@TomAnderson_81]

Sky High your analogy is stupid because what I’m referring to is the claim that god is free and unlimited but then the claim is contradicted when it says he cannot lie which is a limitation. Debunked

[@TomAnderson_81]

Jim which god?

[@TomAnderson_81]

Sky High No. The claim is that god *CANNOT* lie which means that even you can do something that an unlimited person cannot which is self refuting!

[@ameremortal]

I’m just happy to know that I’ll be dead soon.

[@zefSF]

He speaks about god like he had a diner with him last night. This man is delusional.

[@evalsoftserver]

Exactly this man is acting like he Knows God personally, And putting Human Limitations on God, he is more than Delusional he is Crazy with his own EGO

[@ferdinandkraft857]

Is God free to inflict covid-19 upon his chosen people?

[@dankuchar6821]

God didn't do it. We did it. Humans chose to mess around with bats and eat them. God can't remove free will from us. If we choose to do stupid things, we win stupid prizes. God may tell you not to do something, but you still have the free will to do it, even if it's stupid.

[@ferdinandkraft857]

@@dankuchar6821 Did God put the virus in bats just to screw with us?

[@dankuchar6821]

@@ferdinandkraft857 I don't think God came down and put a virus in a bat, nature put the virus in bats. Viruses are everywhere. There's somewhere around 2 million viruses on the planet. Most of them we have no idea what they are. In fact most of the biomass of the oceans is viruses. They're everywhere. If you didn't have them, life would not exist. Without viruses nothing will evolve. Viruses are a huge part of the life cycle of everything. But sometimes, some of them make a mess of things, that's just because we live in a mortal physical world. sometimes a virus causes a problem, but most of the time species adapt and become immune. That's the way it is always been. This isn't the first virus pandemic nor will it be the last. Sometimes viruses jump species. It's what they do. It's just all part of things evolving and changing.

[@ferdinandkraft857]

@@dankuchar6821 It seems that you're leaving God outside of the equation. If things just happen naturally, where does God's will enter the game?

[@dankuchar6821]

@@ferdinandkraft857 God's will can't interfere with man's will. God cannot take away our freedom to choose our destiny. That's why we are here; to choose what we want to make of ourselves. God can't interfere with that. That choice is ours. Where does God's will fit into the equation? That's where we have to find out what God's will is and then act accordingly. God can't make us do things; but he can show us what is the smartest and best thing to do. Then it's up to us to do it. I kind of think... and please forgive this analogy, it's just an analogy, and it has its flaws... I use this analogy because I have been heavily involved in athletics for most of my life... I think of God is like the coach. He can't play the game. That's up to us. But he can teach us how to play the game and he can show us the best thing to do while we're on the floor, and he can talk to us and tell us things to do, and he can pull people in and out of the game according to his will. But it's up to us to play the game and to listen to the coach. The miracle is that even with us flawed individuals who are totally messed up and constantly doing things wrong, God's team eventually wins the championship. Our task is to be on the team. You can't stop God's will. But he works through us. We just have to decide if we're going to be with him or not. Some people may think that is a sacrilegious analogy, but it works for me.

[@parismetro2012]

Using language to discuss the unknowable

[@evalsoftserver]

I know He is putting Human limitations on God

[@v838monocerotis9]

Wow. Baseless speculation about a purely hypothetical being? I'm impressed!

[@spracketskooch]

I"ll be happy if you keep that same energy when it comes to the idea of the multiverse. Pure speculation, and unfalsifiable. I don't mind when someone believes a baseless thing. I only mind when someone believes a baseless thing and then acts like all the other baseless things are idiotic.

[@adamburling9551]

Causal Inference points to something greater. Intelligence is always recognized, implied, or input. Code for instance doesn't necessarily prove a human being, but it points to intellgence. Reality to human beings in an uncanny way points to, and begs the greater questions. Should make anyone wonder or pause to think.

[@jonnanderson6489]

Is God free not to be?

[@spracketskooch]

Can God objectively experience God?

[@ferdinandkraft857]

God.exe has stopped working...

[@henrycowell3771]

Trying to rationalize the irrational, another hobby to cultivate during a pandemic related lockdown

[@evalsoftserver]

Exactly this man is acting like he Knows God personally, And putting Human Limitations on God, he is more than Delusional he is Crazy with his own EGO

[@ameremortal]

God was a amazing until he was hijacked by dishonest cowards.

[@pierremartineau9179]

Wanting to know the thruth so much, that you become ridiculous, this man has extraordinary connections hasn’t he? I think listening to this nonsense that the series should end....really, we’ve had enough.

[@Cluedup2399]

In this world there are followers and critical thinkers. Followers beleive in what they where brought up to beleive critical thinkers beleive what they choose to beleive

[@spracketskooch]

And they're both wrong.

[@Savantjazzcollective]

God can certainly make married bachelors if he wants. A specific singlen man who is destined and ordained for a specific single woman. This man can in fact be both at the same time, with or without prior knowledge... imo

[@alexlepre]

I have been an Agnostic for quite some time now , but this person makes it more confusing and baffling, all good all powerful etc etc god? Proves believers CANNOT even agree among themselves.

[@planc3318]

Alex Lepre Believers in God cannot agree on fairly sophisticated characteristics of his, yes. However, I don’t see why this would be confusing, just rewatch and pay attention to what he says.

[@spracketskooch]

If god is all knowing that means it creates some people knowing they're going to end up in hell, suffering for eternity. If god is all powerful that means it can stop that from happening, but chooses not to. If god is all good, then that means the previous things aren't true. So either God is what most would call evil, God isn't all knowing/all powerful, there is no hell. At least according to the given axioms. If God exists, God is nothing like any description that's been put forth so far.

[@planc3318]

spracketskooch Why is it that atheists always repeat the same argument but without it’s complexity? A world with free will means that humans decide for themselves whether or not they go to heaven or hell. Omniscience doesn’t stop that. Aside from that, hell/heaven have nothing to do with the existence of God.

[@spracketskooch]

​@@planc3318 Yes but God knows what a person will choose in advance, and still creates people that will choose to go to hell. This is an old one too, but what about all the people living in the middle of the jungle that will never even hear the name Jesus?Do they even get a choice? Also, what's the point of a game if you know every move everyone will take in advance? Any way you look at it, whatever God is, isn't like what we read in the bible, or any other holy book. Even if you believe that the bible was originally the word of God, it's been corrupted for 2000 years by human hands and minds. It's been translated, edited, revised, and misinterpreted so much that I see more human in it than God now. What I'm trying to say is that God is so far beyond the brain's ability to logically comprehend, and people are so selfish and bad at explaining they're experience of God, that we end up with a description of God that allows people being created to live, die and suffer for eternity, through no fault of their own. We end up with a God so tainted by the flaws of man than most people would call God evil. Why believe what a corrupted book, or another human behind a piece of wood tells you, when you can directly experience God for yourself? May I remind you that Jesus himself was against and abolished the middle man priest. He wanted everyone to have a direct personal relationship with God. P.S. I'm not an atheist, I'm just pointing out some very apparent flaws with the system that I know best, Christianity. If someone put a gun to my head I'd say I believe that God exists, just not a God that can be described by human language, but one that has to be experienced to be understood.

[@planc3318]

spracketskooch So basically you raise two questions: 1) the original one with why an Omniscient and Benevolent God would create beings who go to hell 2) what happens to those who never heard of Jesus (2) is something which I’m sure Christian theologians have dealt with, however, I’m not Christian. (1) could be explained in a couple of ways. First and foremost, you can’t assume the creation of God have rights over God. They are God’s property, and He could do with them what He wants to. He could throw a pious man to hell and a demonic man into paradise. However, He does not do that. Humanity has been given the ability to choose, that’s what’s special about us. Animals don’t have an intellect which they can use to make moral decisions, we do. God created us with such moral capacity, as well as a moral responsibility. If anyone ends up in hell, it’s their own doing. Now you may think, why does God create people knowing they’ll go to hell? Well, the thing is, it isn’t really unmerciful to do so. People have a free shot at life, and it’s up to them to live up to their moral responsibility. The existence of free will with consequences and rewards kind of necessitates the whole Heaven-Hell situation.