Freeman Dyson, Part II: Mind, God, Religion | Episode 2102 | Closer To Truth

[@CloserToTruthTV]

Closer To Truth is broadcast on PBS stations. You can also watch Closer To Truth online at CloserToTruth.com or on our KZbin channel. This is Episode 2 of Season 21, first aired on PBS stations in 2022.

[@eirref]

I am not the kind of person that cultivates heroism or heros. But these two episodes were an amazing look into the world of one of the most interesting and inspiring people I have been confronted with in this life. This kindness and humility, intelligent and careful humor... well balanced language... wonderful..! He puts for me precious language on questions and feelings I have and experience when it comes to considering our existence in this enormous phenomenon we call the universe... Thank you so much Robert, to have created this possibility for us to meet such clever and inspiring minds like Mr Dyson's... Thank you so much! This is gold!

[@CarlosElio82]

Dyson is fantastic, but I see the foundational role Robert plays in the dissemination of relevant knowledge and I want to present my gratitude to him. For us, is a video available at the click of a mouse. But imagine yourself going through the motions of producing this video. The calls, scheduling, costs, political capital (e.g., friends, references, etc.) that RLK goes through to bring us those gems that bring light to our minds. Kudos and immense gratitude to RLK.

[@Neanderthals40k]

indeed enormously commendable @@CarlosElio82

[@Resmith18SR]

The truly great thing about Philosophy, Science and Life is that it's not a quiz where there's a right or wrong answer to what Reality, God, or Existence is. Humans will never achieve a complete consensus about these questions but Science and Philosophy will continue asking questions.

[@photonsonpixels]

How refreshing to see a famous scientist with an open mind about sources of learning other than science.

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

Yes, few will escape the black hole of materialism

[@dongshengdi773]

@@yourlogicalnightmare1014 Is the natural, physical world all-there-is? Or is there something more-a supernatural, nonphysical existence? The universe has a MENTAL apparatus. You may call it God , if you like, says Freeman Dyson . : "The public has a distorted view of science because children are taught in school that science is a collection of firmly established truths. Physicist Freeman Dyson

[@fabiocaetanofigueiredo1353]

I thought exactly that as he was speaking... another proof of the validity of D-K effect Contrast his position with NdGT's for example... 🙄

[@TJ-kk5zf]

the opposite of Sam Harris

[@TJ-kk5zf]

​@AlexandriaOccasional-Cortexthe fact that YOU do. everything in the universe must per se reflect aspects of its nature, right?

[@CarlosElio82]

Dyson is fantastic, but I see the foundational role Robert plays in the dissemination of relevant knowledge and I want to present my gratitude to him. For us, is a video available at the click of a mouse. But imagine yourself going through the motions of producing this video. The calls, scheduling, costs, political capital (e.g., friends, references, etc.) that RLK goes through to bring us those gems that bring light to our minds. Kudos and immense gratitude to RLK.

[@TheCrossroads533]

Dyson is one of the great thinkers of modern times. I never met him personally, but I found an authentic autographed copy of his "Origins of Life" book in a used bookshop in Vermont for $5. Talk about serendipity for a steal! I treasure it.

[@davidturnage3467]

Watching freeman Dyson, somehow never fails to produce a calming effect on me.

[@anthonyk597]

Thank you for all your “Closer To Truth” work. You have a way of making the most complicated issues seem easier to grasp. I have learnt many new things watching these videos. This one teaches me to keep an open mind - answers come in all different forms of subjects. I love this show and very much appreciate your search for truth.

[@showponyexpressify]

One of the most enlightened individuals I have heard

[@egkatop]

It is exciting to realize the extent to which humility allows a great mind like Dyson to approach such issues so gracefully!

[@Monkeybrain3721]

A humble, respectful and insightful view on the interaction of science, theology and literature

[@davidbarbour2368]

Dyson was a hero of mine. Thank you Robert, for sharing your time with him.

[@timothyroberts3550]

He was such a great mind, lost him in 2020 and I was too busy with Covid to note his passing. What a shame,

[@redacted428]

"Too busy with covid" LOL wtf does that even mean?

[@EgoTeach]

@@redacted428 he was taking care of Covid. I'm assuming it's a dog's or child's name

[@Mike-mm4mx]

Such wonderful and refreshing humility for such a great mind

[@optionmaster221]

This makes Closer to Truth absolutely biggest scientific undertaking in our lifetime, bigger than the Hedron collider. It's an Epic search for the truth that takes us everywhere talks to everyone that has something to say about this topic and makes Humanity think about Universe, God, Us and the Truth

[@robertlawrencekuhn4483]

Much appreciate, @optionmaster221, your comments, interest and support are very meaningful to me. Every day is a challenge - we are committed to continuing. Best regards, Robert

[@optionmaster221]

@@robertlawrencekuhn4483 Thank you Robert. I'm honoured that you read and answered my little comment. that just goes to show what a humble, down to earth and unbelievable scientist you are. you have interviewed some of the colossal minds of humanity and yet you keep an eye on your fans and viewers bridging the gap between the cold arrogance of the high science, infallibility of religion and regular people who are just interested in pursuit of the truth, wherever it might lead us. You keep them honest with your questions Robert, keep steering your ship closer to Truth for all of us. Greetings from 🇨🇦

[@sammymm2]

22:39 Mr Dyson is 99% right. Three years ago I had a successful heart transplant surgery, during that surgery I experienced the NDE phenomenon, I know the full truth, I hope to be able to explain my understanding of our universe to all before I die, which seems to be not too far from now.

[@bohemianharvest]

Explained so simply that a child can understand. I really enjoyed listening to this interview. Thank you

[@dabonemarrow5337]

I luv his still and excitement on what he speaks of!! Truly an astonishing man!! We sure need a couple of him!! But you know how that goes!! Thank you for his time!! Godspeed

[@wadegruber2119]

His book, Disturbing the Universe, is a good read.

[@someone1059]

It is what inspired me study to mathematical physics!

[@chester-chickfunt900]

Many thanks for Closer To Truth. Excellent content. I highly recommend the programs. It is so nice to see deep, rational thinking woven together with that which we might not yet understand.

[@chrisgale5634]

I am curious about where the interviewer is coming from. Is this a religious channel? I think it should make clear where it is coming from.

[@mdwoods100]

@@chrisgale5634 It's not a religious channel. The interviewer has a PhD in neuroscience. He covers a lot of different topics sometimes religious often not.

[@chrisgale5634]

@@mdwoods100 ok thanks, still find it odd giving people who believe in imaginary friends an equal footing, but there we go.

[@rileyhoffman6629]

Fantastic conversation. Thanks.

[@kipponi]

Better than any movie. Very positive thinker and knows his limits. If I ever had a chance to talk him it would have been almost feel like talking to God!?

[@wrenchg3954]

im so happy to have stumbled upon CTT. What beautiful tidbits of knowledge to consume. And most satisfying they are. You've got my subscription

[@dongshengdi773]

Science and religion are two windows that people look through, trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand why we are here. The two windows give different views, but they look out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And both are worthy of respect. Trouble arises when either science or religion claims universal jurisdiction, when either religious or scientific dogma claims to be infallible. Religious creationists and scientific materialists are equally dogmatic and insensitive. By their arrogance they bring both science and religion into disrepute. The media exaggerate their numbers and importance. The media rarely mention the fact that the great majority of religious people belong to moderate denominations that treat science with respect, or the fact that the great majority of scientists treat religion with respect so long as religion does not claim jurisdiction over scientific questions. Physicist Freeman Dyson. :

[@b.g.5869]

Dyson was in a very good mood for this interview. He was generally a lot more pessimistic in his later years, largely because he had pinned his greatest hope for a meaningful universe on the possibility of the entire universe being gradually transformed into a universal mind. He actually wrote and spoke a lot about this and gave the matter very serious consideration and tried to get a handle on what it might look like physically etc. However, after it was realized that the universe is expanding at an accelerated rate, he concluded there will come a time in the distant future when no significant physical processes - certainly none that would be required for some sort of mind - will be possible, which he found very depressing and demoralizing. That was his main interest in his latter life; the question of how mind could survive indefinitely, and he seemed to be really disturbed when he eventually concluded it was almost certainly impossible. It's interesting to see him in such a comparatively optimistic frame of mind here.

[@jesseaustin2438]

* mind cannot be created nor destroyed. Maum Meditation, Berkeley Meditation, a universal consciousness we become one with.. the nazi's was the vril- psychic connectivity. Renee descarte- i think, therefore I am"; u see stuff, so it is real. It exists. Me- u see different colors, so each diff color shade is a different particle, not the electromagnetic wave but the image hallucinated/hologramed in ur head. Descarte didnt know NPCs, simulations, but like a universe in a box ,idk he could of been aware of that idea. Thought magic, but then he'd think i'll give it the benefit of the doubt that it is and isnt just the mind or of a god. So our hallucination, if we're not NPCs whom are not sentient, but we are sentient, like we could explain everything with science. Still, we know why we have an experience and see (aren't going thru processes aka dont have minds or souls.) Souls being magic life breathed into by a god IE, but still its scientifically proven that we should be conacious.. for instance there is a universal conacioussness, like in Maum Meditation (maum meditation has stupid ideas like we have purpose to be with the universal mind.. like think, u should want to control the universe.. but God of israelites say u should admit ur flawed n believe in Him, God, and He made promises, and wants relationship n man is meant to be helpmate to God.. philisophicalness, but also a way to enslave the mind.. if we're in a sim, they could want you to not rebel against God or the false god known as God, and thats kinda like believing in Satan as god, and satan is morning story or enlightener, but that too just builds off falseness of God theology. God is said to be all powerful but 2+2 must equal 4. If 2 and 2 together doesnt make 4, then they werent truly added together. Is lightspeed not 'c'? Are you sentient but not sentient. Do you have a soul but dont have a soul. If God, i just proved false, if He is magical (aka could make 2+2 not equal 4), then He would be able to make all things provable. But false, conceptual parable- can u microwave a burrito so hot you cannot eat it, but simultaneously you can eat it; no, you either can or cannot.. this proves there is no such thing as an all powerful god

[@b.g.5869]

@@jesseaustin2438 I don't talk to New Age kooks. Blocked 😉!

[@jesseaustin2438]

U didnt read it all. Lol

[@dongshengdi773]

@@jesseaustin2438 . I have no use for a theology that claims to know the answers to deep questions but bases its arguments on the beliefs of a single tribe. I am a practicing Christian but not a believing Christian. To me, to worship God means to recognize that mind and intelligence are woven into the fabric of our universe in a way that altogether surpasses our comprehension. Dyson 2002a

[@francesco5581]

ahhh logic and knowledge together !!

[@jmanj3917]

What a smart dude...on so many levels, and in so many ways.

[@consciousnessbasedcosmos]

I am beginning to wonder, with all these never ending videos and conversations with so many people and experts, if we are really getting closer to the truth. Is it really the case that to get closer to the truth, we have to try to understand all the different ideas and knowledge there is. Or perhaps, after getting some useful knowledge, we actually have to do the opposite. That is by stilling the mind of all thoughts, which means emptying it of all knowledge. Patanjali says in the first stanza of his Yoga Sutras, when the mind is stilled, its real nature will automatically reveal itself. Perhaps it is this that can really bring us closer to the truth.

[@herrweiss2580]

I concur! ❤

[@chrisgale5634]

Try rational thought. All this cosmic truth narrative is all very poetic but still provides no evidence whatsoever that anything supernatural exists.

[@jesseaustin2438]

2nd law of thermodynamics. Entropy. + Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Yang-Mills Mass Gap- the million dollar prize known as 1 of 7 Millenium Prize Problems. I have math and science, remember my name, its my real one. Olympic high jump record holder, male, is also a Jesse Austin. Things are never still. Time is change. Light, traveling at lightspeed could experience no time, but they are still seen in Nother time reference. Relativity. Time isnt like einstein says. Theres an aether- as in a time relative to other times. The light doesnt experience time but it experiences time travelling. There is a fixed time, and things like just doesnt experience change in their other processes. Like, they go thru process or change of placement, displacement, but dont go thru other processes. Me, my theory- gravity is time of time, like QFT aka quantum field theory, theres multiple fields, ie electromagnetic field, and each field is like its own universe (space, spacetime, c space; for instance) and each has its own time, and the times' time like thing is gravity. A time field's time. Time field equals spacetime? It might be like considering science and religion, like in this video.

[@javooor]

A beautiful episode! Thank you!

[@carlosromerofilho6202]

Wonderful! Amazingly deep thinking!

[@rxbracho]

Wow! His vision of an evolving God is the closest I have encountered to mine, of an evolving Universe where the fitness function is self-consciousness. In both cases, as Robert points out, humans are a key component for we are the conscious mind of the Universe. It is a responsibility. Thank you.

[@irfanmehmud63]

I also feel and think the same about God.

[@rxbracho]

@@realitycheck1231 I used Dyson's words, not mine. He spoke of a totality in the physical world (the universe) and a corresponding one in the mental world, which he called "God". In his dualism, Universe/God are all there is in each realm, physical and mental. I am not a dualist. To me, all of Creation is made of awareness which tries to be self-conscious via evolution. First giving rise to time and then to space and matter, over aeons, in a manner proposed by Sir Roger Penrose in his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology.

[@jesseaustin2438]

Buddhism Nirvana and Heaven, u need not worry if ur in bliss. God that is tooken care of. If ur not in bliss, why would a good or kind and loving god do that? Dyson and Kuhn are very flawed, yet paid. We need to create heaven on earth, but how if we must judge? Religions just say there is a god that judges or karma like thing. It is false. Nothing can be created or destroyed.. entropy and quantum.. the arrow of time.. things are just less likely to revert to a lower possiblity in a probability wave. All life can be reverted. Time cops. See Steven Greer 4th kind movie.. appropriate that there is aliens that are telepathic and of different planes or dimensions of existence,, that is just something to ponder, for your own purpose. Heathenism,, do as what you desire. Never let something punish you. Beginning- Kuhn- "the universe creates itself and is conscious. Buddhists or ive heard a buddhist say he was told man is buddhas thought or dream. Buddha is likely made up to make you obey karma, so others can disobey and take advantage of others. Just like other gods.

[@przemkowaliszewski3290]

Actually, this view is very close to the Jewish perspective outlined in the Hebrew version of the Psalm 104. There is clearly written, what has been lost in translations, that God develops together with the Universe He created. The same view expressed Polish Brethren in XVII century. Unfortunately, that viewpoint disappeared somewhere among noise of different fundamentalists.

[@palashmatt1435]

After a long time, I feel good with the lecture.Thank you Robert sir.

[@paulvalentine4451]

Fantastic discussion Thank you for sharing and raising our awareness Beautiful discussion by two beautiful minds Cheers from Sydney, Australia Paul

[@chrisgale5634]

Religion wants to keep people living in caves.

[@andrewmoonbeam321]

FD - "The good Lord must have had an inordinate fondness for beetles." Me - "I don't get it." FD - "Cause he created so many kinds of beetles." Me - "Now I get it."

[@jamesnasmith984]

What a champion of wonder and mystery! Nevertheless, humanity’s recent, minuscule perch in the vastness and timelessness of the observable universe argues that our cognitive awareness has no connection to the cause or purpose of the great scheme of things.

[@mediocrates3416]

Maximum diversity is another way of saying that we have to respect nature. Respect is the lesson theology hasn't leared yet.

[@garydower7870]

Thank you

[@ivtch51]

Yay, Freeman is a man after my own heart. Both theology and science are endeavors of the human spirit trying to penetrate the frontiers of mystery. Both theological and religious fundamentalists each think they know how to wrap it all up. Ha ha ha!

[@jayjay-gl4fj]

Diversity is the most beautiful thing I see…wow

[@jessebryant9233]

7:00 - That's not science...

[@engima3196]

Such a fantastic balanced mind. It is the concept of uncertainty that we ought to induce... "There soon creeps in the misconception of knowing before we truly know" Hegel

[@jesseaustin2438]

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

[@engima3196]

@@jesseaustin2438 👌🏽

[@bretnetherton9273]

Awareness is the ONLY constant of ALL experience what could be more fundamental to reality than THAT???

[@Lukas-cm2b]

i liked the debate and documentary about dyson, sacks etc by holand television. they always do something good this dutch tv.

[@Resmith18SR]

I agree with Einstein's view which he called Cosmic Religion. The order harmony of Nature, the physical laws of Nature represent the Mind of God that Science studies and uncovers. And those Laws and Nature exist independently of humans. Spinoza had a similar philosophy and was a monist.

[@victorschwanberg]

Excellent

[@shaneharrington3655]

Amazing video, thank you.

[@shawnshawn2699]

If I ever catch Robert not wearing a turtleneck, I swear to _____ I’ll have an existential Fkn crisis….

[@deepaktripathi4417]

Always fascinating!!

[@peweegangloku6428]

Informative.

[@AA-qs4ju]

It was JBS Haldane, who said about the bugs, not Darwin 😊 Many thanks for this. Very inspirational

[@Memphis_ritz]

It’s not “passion,” it’s fervor

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

There are certainly an infinitude of different Universes, but in general they contain equal amounts of matter and anti-matter. This means that most of them have vanished and the rest of them soon will. Thank you for asking. Next question, please?

[@petertodd5896]

God and Humanity in an entangled state? The idea that an evolving God becomes conscious through and is completed by humankind in a process theology which regards the numinous as being both immanent and transcendent..Consciousness is the mirror that the universe has evolved to reflect upon itself and in which its very existence is revealed. Great interview with Freeman Dyson!

[@chrisgale5634]

Sorry Peter but that's just waffle.

[@oOFedoOo]

God does not evolve or becomes anything.. He is in the same state he always was and will always be, absolute and perfect.. Being and everything in it including mankind is evolving to become more conscious in a journey to perfection.

[@joepvans5035]

@@oOFedoOo why? I don't want to be perfect, that sounds boring.

[@oOFedoOo]

@@joepvans5035 When a carpenter makes a chair he will showcase it in the shop and throw away all the remaining pieces of wood into the trash.. There is no trash outside this universe, the dead bodies, sick people and animals are all contained here.. so dont worry if you feel this way you belong here but maybe not for long.. If you want to improve yourself god will help you.. There is a difference between pleasure and joy, try to find joy and you will live happily forever..

[@chrisgale5634]

@FBB evidence? I could say there are fairies at bottom of the garden.

[@andrewmoran7353]

🤔sure enjoy expression of thought and dialogue on this subject, so much so that I forget about chow 🤭👌

[@mark.J6708]

Just a joy to watch and listen to, great, real wisdom here. How very bored God would be if it was all set in stone, maybe evil exists to see what we do about it, maybe we must be the way we are, including free will for any of this to work, work as designed. If we are a reflection of things, think on how we would react if we knew, with absolute certainty who would win the world cup or the super bowl or the spelling bee or the maths competition every single time for all time... if we could make a universe would we make one where we controlled everything? What would we even learn about ourselves if we did such a thing? People getting over the fear of mystery has caused untold misery for eons... what is wrong with being ok with not knowing everything or as Dr Dyson says- why not enjoy the not knowing and the discovering? Absolutists are absolutely wrong and drown in fear. I think some old guy once said our biggest limitation is our hubris? Will watch again for both the wisdom and the well wishes and intents for humanity in here. And the challenge, Dr Dyson's direct challenge to seek to become better than we are. If you did not hear that, it is under every word he says.

[@jeanklein2198]

Such a nice episode

[@waldwassermann]

We appear apart so not to be alone.

[@Peaceprojector]

I have always been making myself 💙😎

[@torinbrown6960]

Brilliant as always Robert. Thank you so much from Canterbury UK

[@EgoTeach]

Quick question. How were the dimensions came to be?

[@MichaelSmith420fu]

@17:00 min in, I passionately agree. It's like we throw our kids directly into cognitive dissonance programs right from the start ☹️

[@semrana1986]

Dyson was an agnostic. 🥳

[@sdlillystone]

Evidence for claim?

[@S3RAVA3LM]

CTT, could you interview Deirdre Carabine, concering Negative Theology and here book, 'The Unknown God'.

[@glenliesegang233]

A book for those who view God is evil?

[@georgenelson8917]

Multiverse sounds more realistic, or life just evolved into the reality of the existing universe, so WE fit the universe.

[@pjaworek6793]

A beautiful episode about a great mind, now re-united with an evolving intentional mind, if he's right. Naturalism produces diversity too, so this musing about evil created by God sounds like it's not about god. God as mind is another retreat from a being like God. However, I like the limited God notion but then Freemon seems invoke absolute time in order for this limited God to exist somehow, along with our experience. I sense some contradictions like all God notions.

[@glenliesegang233]

7:30...solves the "Problem of Evil"

[@LordZontar]

Merlin solved that problem in the movie Excalibur (1981): "Good and Evil, there never is one without the other."

[@glenliesegang233]

@@LordZontar yet Putin prefers evil, and calls it good.

[@LordZontar]

@@glenliesegang233 As did Hitler.

[@evanjameson5437]

21:40 to 22:49 TRUTH

[@garychurch9237]

Why are there so many commercials.

[@su....]

at the end of the day, everyone wants to know what happens after we die. if we no longer exist consciously, does anything really matter?

[@johnbrown4568]

A careful thinker indeed…

[@uncommonsensewithpastormar2913]

Near the end of this video, the narrator spoke of the duality of mental vs. physical. What is not acknowledged is that the conceptual categories of mental and physical refer to two categories of the same, more fundamental category, namely experience. What is referred to as physical are experiences that seem especially clear and stable plus being associated with specific sensory organs such as ears and eyes. What is referred to as mental are experiences that are more ambiguous and fleeting and which are associated more with the machinations of the brain as opposed to sensory organs. Both mental and physical, however, ultimately belong to the same more fundamental category, namely experience.

[@kallianpublico7517]

Math does not change. The sun 🌞 heats us differently in the winter than in the summer. Which is "experientially" more consistent, the physical or the mental? Which is experimentally more independently, corroborateable?

[@uncommonsensewithpastormar2913]

@@kallianpublico7517 The word “experiment” comes from the word “experience”, since to conduct an experiment is to have an experience.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@uncommonsensewithpastormar2913 We do not experience numbers. We do experience the Natural world. What are numbers derived from? Nature or our nature? Outer reality: Nature, or inner reality: the self? Where do beliefs and desires and the will derive? From genes, the brain, or matter? No. From the self in battle or harmony with Nature. The experience is different for each experiencer. So where do numbers come from? Children have no experience of numbers they must be taught. Unlike the sun 🌞 which every child comes into contact with, numbers are no where to be found but in a classroom indoctrination. Who invented numbers and how were they invented? Why is learning what the sun is different from learning what 2 + 2 is? Which is more difficult to learn and what is the cause of this difference? Experience? I don't think so. Unlike the sun which can be sensed numbers must be willed. The will involves belief, desire and memory. We do not need to memorize the sun but every child needs to memorize numbers. Indeed they also need to memorize letters. Unlike the sun which can be exposed by the senses, numbers must be imposed by the will. Language too must be imposed, otherwise why do we not naturally speak the language of dogs or birds? Because dogs and birds do not force us to, not because of experience.

[@craighanson6335]

5 thumbs up.

[@Carefaceeeee]

Insight

[@Wtvldoc]

I have always struggled to understand what exactly is the purpose of the universe. If there was a purpose why couldn't we have been just a little cloud floating in space instead of getting consciousness to go through cycles of life and death. Why?

[@KathleenHopper-o3j]

Not all Christian believe the earth is only thousands of years old

[@shivadasa]

The true mystic knows that spirituality & philosophy point to the truth, but are not any themselves expressions of truth. The true scientist should know that science points to the truth, but does not represent truth. The truth being pointed to is the same truth: beyond both science and spirituality, but able to be approached (but never arrived at completely) from both paths, either path, or perhaps no path. 🙏

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

Physics can never be complete (describe the entirety of reality) because all it does is describe things that are observable and things those observations suggest. There are probably infinite things we can't observe, nor even conceive of which exist but won't become part of our physics that may be part of another intelligent being's physics

[@MQartGallery]

Here is at least a scientist who understands that human science is not the only source of knowledge about reality and claims that it is, are unscientific. he also recognizes that there is another aspect of reality, which he calls mental, that seems to have a purpose which is in itself outside the scope of science which erroneously tries to dismiss its existence. Again I agree. But even though he recognizes the limitations of science and its erroneous dismissal of religion, he leans on it to formulate a view not dissimilar to what Einstein adopted the view of a universe that by itself has a soul/god that is evolving continually with it as it too is limited by time and space and contained within them. Wrong beginnings lead to wrong ends. God is not part of the cosmos he created! Which means he continues to create himself further and further! The cosmos would be a gigantic mess of experimentations, failures and catastrophes as this type of god keeps developing and learning! As well he himself admits there are many observations of extreme fine-tuning of the cosmos which contradict this view and render it invalid. God is perfect, unique, absolute, unlike any of his creations and does indeed exist beyond space and time which were both also created by god. Allah, with slight dialect variations, is the name of God in all three major religions' holy books written in their original revealed language. The Quran is the only one of them that survived human distortions and lies that still exist in its original language (Arabic) and are still read every day, and totally believed in, to the last word, by hundreds of millions of people around the globe. Islam is the only true religion of God currently. Here is a link to the Quarn (read it,m it won't bite!): quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?ui=1&l=en#aya=1_1&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

[@TheTroofSayer]

Wonderful interview with Freeman Dyson. Much of his take resonates with my own, though I'm more inclined to the agnostic than he is (the god question is one that I don't spend much time on). He has a credible interpretation of God, one that evolves and learns *with* the universe, not outside of it - an interpretation that I am open to. The reason that I don't spend much time on the god question, however, is that it doesn't provide any useful answers. If there is a god, then we would not understand Him, so why try, other than pure indulgence? Any attempt to do so usually takes us down the route of human exceptionalism, towards which Dyson appears to be veering. If there is no god-as-creator, then we are obliged to confront the creative void, and we are compelled to try to figure out how that works - a much more productive approach, for example at 10:19, to the question of fine tuning. I agree with him at 4:29 though - "The important thing is to be happy, not knowing everything."

[@bernardliu8526]

So， our individual souls will ultimately merge with the World Soul. So what?

[@ihatespam2]

Then we’d have that life without tragedy which he said was meaningless. So, kind of contradictory. “Heaven is a place, a place where nothing ever happens.”

[@missh1774]

Sad...the mystery in discovering is the tool of knowing 😔. true it is a squiggle on a chart ... not a record of the change in heart 🥺. Science and machine should not have prominence over my soul-mind and body. No? ... I love your proposal. Ty!

[@chrisgale5634]

What soul?

[@missh1774]

@@chrisgale5634 the one when you look down and find you don't have one but the action brings you into a state of grace or fits of laughter.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@chrisgale5634 What differentiates you from everything else? What connects you to things?

[@chrisgale5634]

@Kallian Publico I'm descended from apes, I am part of nature like everything else. Why do you have to introduce a God or Gods into the equation? Nature is great on its own. Our ancestors cowered in caves when it thundered and feared imaginary monsters and Gods etc. We no longer need to hide in caves.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@chrisgale5634 Why do you fear Gods? Are you so satisfied with science that you are no longer curious? It amazes me that anyone familiar with science can be so unimaginative. The fact of the matter is that science has nothing to say about consciousness and death, not to mention numbers and language. Anyone who cannot appreciate the mystery of reality itself is no defender of science or Nature. There are more things that can be said that can be spoken about in modern science. That fact alone leaves me puzzled about your attitude. No gods, no soul? My retort to you is where is the number zero, equality, points, lines, squares, circles, time, space? Science is full of entities just as absent as the soul or god. Are you too unfamiliar with science to recognize its "mysteries"?

[@jozsefnemeth935]

Despite what Dyson said about room for history, litterature and religion as a source he did not spend a word on Christ and his teachings, his church. His views on mysteries and legitimate separate realms of reality and approach is certainly agreeable, but his attitude seems to prefer free speculation then serious search for objective truth amidst the mysteries.

[@LordZontar]

Prof. Dyson doesn't express one word about Christ, his teachings and his church. Why should he? You do realise belief in Christ is not universal on this planet, yes? It is not even a majority belief on this planet. Also, Prof. Dyson's religious speculations are not confined to the concepts of any one tribal belief system. Besides, he was not asked what his views on Christianity might be but what his views on the general concept of God might be and whether or not there is room to allow for that concept in our picture of the universe.

[@su....]

it seems to me that the widespread belief in eternal conscious torment in hell has had a profound effect, not only on those who hold to that belief, but on the scientists who think they have to be right, have to know everything (just like the ect believers.. because the consequences of not being right, not knowing, are just too horrific). if believers could be deliverered of that damnable doctrine, i think everyone might be able to more chillax.

[@mtshasta4195]

21:39--22:38 Bingo!!

[@akpanekpo6025]

I don't agree with Dyson's suggestion that God is part of the universe: it just makes no sense. If God exists (as I believe S/He does), S/He has to exist outside of the universe, or could not have "caused" it to exist. I however quite like the idea of science and religion answering separate questions within their distinct spheres. For just as science can't provide answers to metaphysical questions such as the purpose of our existence or what happens after death, religion isn't equipped to address scientific questions such as the nature of black holes, dark matter or gravity. And, like him, I see no conflict between both.

[@robertmcclintock8701]

With a television you don't have to be supernatural. God prefer that because it's more social but we have to use it correctly. Right now we have anarchy blindness. Despite the anarchy blindness I figured it out. That proves we can be God like. Only a person getting crucified would suspect something greater. They crucified me with exact disease that in pink Floyd the wall. Victor said it's all good. It should be possible to make everything good.

[@meklitnew]

❤

[@tongleekwan1324]

I don't think Dyson is right when he said majority of the scientists are not against god. If that is the case, then I think these majority of scientists "

[@jarrettesselman8144]

Hey, China. The entire world is built off of the hard work of devout bible believing scientists.

[@losmerolhead]

IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF EVIL IN ANY WAY!!! What you suggest ist ABSOLUT INAKZEPTABEL!!!

[@ToxisLT]

Hmm... so if I understood Freeman's idea about different methods of knowing correctly - a good sociologist should have read as many as possible books from as many as possible different centuries (+movies, for appropriate periods;) - rather than do all the math they do now (to learn to pi-hack;) - to better understand the nature of society, because sociology is a special kind of "science" (like economy) that's better transmitted and understood with older than science tools - languange and stories (algebra/trigonometry/calculus in case of economics;)?

[@b.g.5869]

Sociology is what is known as a soft science; it lacks the rigor of the hard sciences like physics and chemistry etc. Dyson wasn't trying to argue that reading tea leaves or astrology were just as valid as science so far as a "way of knowing". He wasn't a mystic; he was what is known as an agnostic atheist. He's being misinterpreted here as having been more open to mystical nonsense than he was. He was simply opposed to dogmatism and thought it was important to be open minded and to recognize that there are limits to the scope of science. I've read enough of his writings however to state with confidence he would have agreed that although there may be other ways of acquiring knowledge, science is by far the most reliable means of acquiring knowledge because of its rigor and requirement that ideas are testable and independently verifiable etc There are other ways of acquiring knowledge besides science but unfortunately here he simply made the claim without giving any examples, which was disappointing. The obvious follow up question which wasn't asked is "What are some examples of other ways of knowing and what sort of information are we talking about?" He almost certainly would have cited things like the sort of truth that can be conveyed through the arts or 'peak experiences' etc.

[@ToxisLT]

@@b.g.5869 I don't dissagree with you, however Freeman's thoughs resonated with the discussions I keep having lately. The fact that, yes science _is_ a tool, the best tool we ever created IMHO, but it's just a tool - it's not sacraded, or chosen, or magic - it just f*ing works ;) we are in full agreement there. But maybe, just maybe it might be why "soft sciences" have this trouble (not only that their subject matter changes based on their findings) - they are trying to use the tool which worked so well for regularities of nature on something that changes with your understanding of it... So you need to understand the nature of zeitgeist the rate of change of it - and how it interacts with the fact that it's being "observed".... Maybe that's where stories, and myths and other, less useful tools of understanding come in handy... Or not - it might just be another bit of visdom found at the bottom of the bong ;)

[@catherinemoore9534]

Everyone who understands the human condition is drawn to the mystery of the universe, and most of those seekers are searching for meaning either in science or in art. Being happy with 'the mystery' as Freeman claims to be cannot last for long when the mind is searching for answers because we need answers and reassuring. Not just lunch😉

[@chrisgale5634]

I can enjoy art, nature and beauty of the universe. Don't believe any of it has anything to do with a designer or fine tuning. I base my life on rationality. Otherwise I might as well believe Elvis is alive and living on Mars.

[@catherinemoore9534]

@@chrisgale5634 Rationality is useful to create sense out of the mystery and this is what makes you feel sure that believing that Elvis isn't living on Mars is sound . But if you peer deeper into the mystery Rationality doesn't help much. Khun uses Rationality to get closer to truth knowing that it's not enough.

[@chrisgale5634]

@Catherine what mystery do I need to make sense of exactly? If supernatural phenomenon exist then show me the evidence? We don't live in caves anymore.

[@catherinemoore9534]

@@chrisgale5634 there's no mystery for a simple mind. Lucky man.

[@chrisgale5634]

@@catherinemoore9534 mystery, sure, things to be solved by reason and logic. Not superstitious gobbledegook...

[@Dazzletoad]

A lot of what he said stank, and he avoided one of Roberts first questions.

[@tedgrant2]

There are two kinds of things in the world, physical and non-physical. For example, a hypodermic needle and the purpose of the needle. But without the needle, the purpose would be pointless.

[@Peaceprojector]

Someone has to be on a good facial account for God to create his perfect face, before coming on earth. But idea comes from the world. So I thought I'd eat a lil more and get upset stomach. How funny we do things TO OURSELVES which harms us. Like my unperfect nose. We KNOW "the right" 🤣 hahaha

[@kallianpublico7517]

Do ideas come from the world? The world changes, what but chaos comes from the world? Between the inner reality: the self, and the outer reality: Nature, whence comes inference? Gravity can only be inferred it cannot be sensed. Although we can sense things falling we can also sense things rising: birds, helium balloons, feathers in the wind. Why do we "believe" in gravity when our senses constantly contradict it? Inference is another name for belief. Where do beliefs come from? The same place as ideas?

[@jareknowak8712]

👍

[@kallianpublico7517]

Whence comes belief and desire? From the "mind", genes, Nature? Is Freeman Dyson a desire machine with whom we measure ourself against? Measure or compete against? Is desire a measurement or a competition? Neither? You respect Freeman Dyson, even venerate him, why? Why should your desire not rebel against his? Because of death, because you infer his desires will die with him, or because you infer his desires will live after him? His desires or his beliefs? The valuation of others' desires and beliefs is not necessarily intrinsic. It can be suppressed or ignored or even absent. Your program is a Testament that it can be celebrated. Desire is a peril, but without it we would be slime molds looking for our next bite and trying to avoid harm. With it ...what are we? Just a different animal? A "human"? Something necessary or something extraneous? Belief wedded to desire is will. Will is not necessarily intention or purpose, it can be avoidance or attachment: fear or love. In order for will to become purpose or intention it requires, in most humans, the acquisition and application of consistency. Consistency that is coherent is cognition. Consistency that is sensed is consciousness. Belief wedded to desire can also be called prayer.

[@musikinspace]

Freema* **son

[@RubenMartinez-jq7hm]

To the question of evil, he claims that's part of diversity, which is equivalent to the ancient philosophy of Ying and the yang. he sounds more like a mystic than a scientist. And would justify the existence of evil. And that my friend would not be acceptable! To the question of *"fine tuning"* that could be attributed to purposeful design *(hence God).* To the question of God: if God is part of the universe *(none transcendent)* then he's not the ultimate (Holy) God, with a lowercase "g" and that would be a contradiction by definition!

[@LordZontar]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 If we accept God's word that he "is the Lord, there is no other", then there is no other means by which evil could exist. No other being could be responsible because none can be the equal of God. God creates the universe and every dynamic operative in it, including both good and evil. And it must be so: every principle implies its opposite. For good to have any meaning, there must be evil. For free choice to exist, there must be alternatives available to choose, otherwise free choice would be an utterly meaningless concept. A perfect universe would be static and sterile. There would be no change, no growth. And no life. Order must contend with chaos and vice-versa. Good must contend with evil and vice-versa. Man must choose between good or evil. The struggle with the tendency toward evil is central to man's existence. Defeating that tendency puts each man closer to spiritual perfection and mankind as a whole closer to that goal as well. Therefore, evil would be integral to God's plan: it must exist as a challenge to be overcome if mankind is to attain spiritual perfection and union with God.

[@jgwphilly1969]

Freeman Dyson was wrong about climate catastrophe. And he's wrong here. Religion and science can't both be correct. To suggest that what scientists are doing today like at CERN and what some people wrote thousands of years ago with little knowledge of anything is absurd.

[@Minimalrevolt-m83]

(6:116) (O Muhammad!) If you obey the majority of those who live on earth, they will lead you away from Allah's path. They only follow idle fancies, indulging in conjecture.

[@Garghamellal]

God is fond of beetles. That is easily explainable if we accept the theory of reincarnation. Most of the souls are thrown into hellish conditions of life because of their bad karma

[@tonyatkinson2210]

I don’t think beetles see their life as hellish. I suspect they aren’t aware they are alive at all

[@francesco5581]

why hellish ? a single beetle is more wonderful than all of the rest of (lifeless) universe together and are probably more useful for the world than many people.,

[@Garghamellal]

@@francesco5581 sure, any living entity whatsoever is more wonderful than an entire universe which is lifeless and devoid of consciousness. The word hellish especially refers to the fact that, being in that condition, a beetle cannot approach God. No one is able to arouse in a beetle the longing for God and it will never be interested in any spiritual topics. To know more about it, i invite you to read Bhagavad Gita as it is. Cheers

[@francesco5581]

@@Garghamellal i respect a lot the fundamentals of your wonderful religion but as an "animal" person ive developed a great love for every living being. I see God in beetles too...

[@Garghamellal]

@@francesco5581 and you see truly. God is in the heart of every living entity, therefore in each beetle.

[@JungleJargon]

*ULTIMATE REALITY RIGHT HERE* You will know the truth and the truth will set you free (if you believe it). Only your Creator ( implying that you believe in your Creator) can perfectly cover for you Himself and remake you again from the inside out by the power of His true word as no one else ever can. Creation implies that time itself is a creation so time is irrelevant to actual known human history since the global flood when every civilization began with one of the sixteen grandsons of Noah considering that there is no single rate of the passing of time in the universe. Which rate of time are you going to use? Insects survived the global flood which explains their variety. Instead of invoking dark matter and dark energy, do some thought experiments in general relativity and you will understand that rate of time and the measure of distance are relative to the amount of matter and mass there is in the vicinity. The speed of light literally depends on these two variables of time and distance. As you observe a galaxy you are actually seeing differing rates of time and differing measures of distance. The result is that you are seeing differing speeds of light (because of the rate of the passing of time and measures of distance) relative to where we are since the measures of time and distance are both dependent on the amount of matter and gravity there is in the vicinity. (The speed of light isn’t actually changing, the measures of time and distance are changing *which effectively changes the speed of light as we observe it over GREAT distances.)* The result is that distance is greatly expanded (not expanding) where there is no matter between us and distant galaxies (causing redshift) eliminating the need for dark energy and the movement of the outer spiral arms of galaxies is at a faster rate of time causing them to move faster as we observe them eliminating the need for dark matter. This also means that plasma jets shooting out from the center of galaxies isn’t seven times the speed of light. It’s that the distance is expanded and the rate of time is faster the less matter there is in the vicinity. There is no such thing as a nonsensical infinitely expanding universe or an imaginary inflaton and there is no such thing as imaginary invisible dark matter. Distance is *merely* greatly expanded between the black holes in galaxies (causing the redshift) so the universe is not infinitely expanding as is claimed. An infinitely expanding universe is nonsensical. Not only is distance greatly expanded where there is no matter between galaxies, time runs at a much faster rate where there is no matter. Distances within the galaxies are vast so when we observe another galaxy, we are literally observing differing rates of time and differing measures of distance still within the limits of other galaxies, not to mention the *extreme* distances *between* galaxies where there is no matter to dilate time and distance. That means the distances between the galaxies are greatly expanded, (not expanding) and time between the galaxies is running at a much faster rate *which allows for us to see fully formed distant galaxies in the first place.* The ancient civilizations are all descended from Noah who had sixteen grandsons that became the sixteen ancient the civilizations each with their own paternal haplogroup lineage. Gomer Europeans R, Madai Medes Q, Javan Greek sea people T, Tiras Thracians L, Tubal Italy K, Meshek Siberians N, Magog Asian O, Aram Aramean F, Asshur Assyrians G, Elam Elamites H, Arphaxad Arabs Hebrews I&J, Lud Lydians F2, Phut early Phoenicians E1, Mitzrayim Egyptians E3, Canaan Canaanites E2, Cush Cushites A B & C. D could have been the Sinite tribe from Canaan. C is the descendants of Nimrod. Neanderthals are Japhethites and Denisovans are a mix of Japhethites and Hamites, not Semitic. It shows up on DNA maps and charts. Every grandson of Noah and their descendants have their own paternal Y chromosome haplogroup lineage! I can name all sixteen of them like I just did and give you each of their haplogroups! Science is what can be verified. I’ll tell you about the tectonic plate movement! …The continents broke apart 100 years after the global flood. Animals were separated by the split between South America and Africa. The Jaguar and the leopard, the eagles, possums and opossums, the tapirs, the greater grison and the honey badger and crocodiles were all separated by the breakup of the continents. Sediment layers and fossils buried by the global flood line up perfectly. Glacial striations go from south to north in India on top of the sediments deposited by the global flood as well as in South America Africa and Australia. Animals in the Arctic were quick frozen as result of the breakup and the continents moving north. Tsunamis also buried many animals in the Arctic. People never made it to South America from Africa in the first 100 years because they were too busy trying to build the Tower of Babel. True story. The evolutionary out of Africa claim is exactly backwards since the oldest progenitor is Japheth the ancestor of Eurasians then the Semitic populations of Shem and the Hamitic African progenitor is the youngest progenitor with their eldest sons connecting the three different families descended from the three sons of Noah. It took me a while to understand that the evolutionary claim is assuming that SNP markers are being gained forming the stair steps out of Africa when the reality is that the original SNP markers cited are in fact being lost forming the opposite stair steps out of West Asia as known human history shows. The stair step out of Africa claim has to be addressed because the SNP markers are real evidence but the evolutionary assumption is exactly backwards. This requires that the Japhethites be connected to the Semitics by way of the eldest son of Shem which is Arphaxad (IJ) and the Semitics are then connected to the Hamitics by way of the the eldest son of the eldest son of Ham which is Nimrod (C) the son of Cush. So the SNP markers being lost to the younger brothers verifies the Table of Nations outlined in Genesis. It is also noteworthy that the D paternal haplogroup lines up with the E2 haplogroup of Canaan and his son’s tribe of Sinim the Biblical namesake of China. So the only Hamitic haplogroups outside of Africa are the C of Nimrod and the D of Sinim in Andaman Tibetan and Japanese areas. There are a lot of big headed academics that think they are better. The reality is that matter and energy never make or direct themselves. It’s not as complicated as you seem to want to make it out to be. You can’t claim a natural cause when you admittedly don’t know. I do know that a supernatural cause is required for natural things to exist since matter and energy cannot pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It’s unscientific for you to believe in a natural cause for natural things. Until you can prove otherwise, the supernatural cause is the most coherent logical scientific conclusion. Your positive claim of a natural cause is baseless and unscientific. Evolution is *very* unscientific.

[@therick363]

Cop and paste Dodging your burden Cherry picking I miss anything? How about you drop the script and finally answer questions and support what you say?

[@JungleJargon]

@@therick363 Hey Rick! I gave you all of the support. Go read it again.

[@therick363]

@@JungleJargon ha ha ha NO you didn’t. You literally every time do what I said. I’ll show it. _the reality is that matter and energy never make or direct themselves. It’s not as complicated as you seem to want to make it out to be_ They are “directed” via the fundamental forces and laws of the universe….you purposely ignore those. As such you’re cherry picking. _you can’t claim a natural cause when you admittedly don’t know_ Someone shouldn’t claim a natural cause unless they can prove it. What we CAN say is all we observe and find and record are natural causes, and events and effects….and if you’re going to say it has to be a supernatural cause then YOU have to back it up….which you don’t unless you count the cherry picking, double standards and special pleading you use. _I do know that a supernatural cause is required for natural things to exist since matter and energy cannot pull themselves up by their bootstraps_ There you go doing exactly what I just said you would. -cherry picking/ignoring -personal incredulity -GOD OF THE GAPS _its unscientific for you to believe in a natural cause for natural things_ No it’s not. _until you can prove otherwise, the supernatural cause is the best coherent logical scientific conclusion_ Same as I said above. -cherry picking/ignoring -personal incredulity -GOD OF THE GAPS -dodging your burden -twisting what logic actually is Oh and the last one _evolution is _*_very_*_ unscientific_ You failed to support, explain and demonstrate how so. How about you do that now.

[@therick363]

@@JungleJargon you can respond to what I said here or on the same copy and paste you did in another thread. I suggest you do it on the other one so you might get some help and support. But I’m sure you won’t and I’m sure you’ll come back with dodging and script and childish behavior. But please-prove me wrong .

[@JungleJargon]

@@therick363 You didn’t say anything.