CMPE PVP: Operation Whetstone Mission 2: Raid

British forces raid Imber Village to draw Donovian reserves away from Copehill Down in UK Fight Club's Operation Whetstone campaign for Combat Mission Professional Edition.
Fight Club International is a wargaming experimentation group learning to fight across all domains of conflict and competition.​ #ThinkFightLearnRepeat
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[@figmo4227]

Thanks very much for the match. Was a great learning experience, especially trying to pin down a light role force while bringing my much larger force to bear. Seeing that 90% of the force managed to slink away I think you certainly can be pronounced the victor of this one (I just wish that cluster artillery had been a little more lucky!) I tried to keep this a little more believable by going in completely blind, making my plan with only what was available to me. What this game missed (as it ended before it happened) was my BTR company assault into area which you deployed under T-72 protection. The briefing did stipulate that I - the red commander - had detected you and thus planned to achieve the objectives set out to me which was to preserve my own integrity and territory.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Thanks for the game! Looking forward to Mission 3 which... I think Red has a better chance of winning. Also, tanks!

[@carson1223]

As you point out with the Javelin teams, a "hit and run" command is sorely needed. I can't count how many times I've lost assets like that because they spot and open fire near the start of the turn and then I've got to wait an entire minute before I can tell them to scoot.

[@voxzero4588]

Is there not a way to path them where they hold a position to fire and then exfil? i’ve only ever used them statically

[@rockin3404]

You can stack commands between pause orders, say give a unit a covered arc for 45 seconds then move away, or use some similar combination is the closest we have sadly. the following turn the unit can hunt to the top of the ridge, pause, then move back. Making the movement order conditional on actually firing is not possible, sadly.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

There's some behaviour for M150s and M901s in CMCW where they immediately reverse after they've finished their missile engagement- of course, this can cause just as many problems as it solves depending on how you've positioned the vehicle. Plus... it never ceases to amaze me in footage how javelin teams seem to always hang around to see if their missile hits. It's fire and forget, someone else can watch the target: just fire and get out!

[@Lazuli2-6]

You definitely got lucky with how Will perceived your reserved forces as he probably thought you were going to do a two prong attack from the west and the north. That cluster arty was probably an attempt to block them once they passed through, but the reserved forces never went in as he thought so he redirected it but was too late. He also didn't see that was also your escape route for your raiding force so if he kept that arty in place, it might've been enough to derail your escape so his reaction force could've gotten some shots on. Well played by both. When I looked at the map, I thought the northern route was going to be better with the cover and concealment, but that OP on the eastern hills would also be a good ATGM spot and thus your western route was much better

[@d.c.6065]

The mission is to get in, get it over with, and get out. Get it? Got it? Good.

[@The2ndFirst]

Yep. That's what a "Raid" is. Go in, do the thing and GTFO.

[@_Dogberry_]

BABE WAKE UP USUALLY’S NEW VIDEO DROPPED

[@AR-GuidesAndMore]

Better to touch the objective of the Bell inn, than objecting to beeing touched by a bell end. 🤣

[@virtuallyreal5849]

“CMPE PVP” might just be my favourite series of letters. ❤

[@The2ndFirst]

I like that you described what a "Raid" is.

[@Imperator3838]

Monke see cmpe => neuron activation => instant like

[@stastu6484]

Can't wait for part 3! Great video, love your style of explaining the plan and reflecting on the actions afterwards.

[@kevinl.o.torres8962]

Pro KZbinr stuff..

[@whya2ndaccount]

11:11 I can't believe that an open topped, open sided vehicle (i.e. the only armour is what the troops are wearing) can sit in the beaten zone of a 152mm DPICM mission and take zero casualties. They do have a secondary blast / fragmentation effect, with the "DP" being dual purpose against vehicles and dismounts.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

There's a strong argument that fragmentation effects on vehicles are undermodelled in CM- those Jackals seem unlikely to have survived.

[@The2ndFirst]

@@usuallyhapless9481 They seem like the most shitty unsurvivable vehicles .

[@jimmydesouza4375]

@@The2ndFirst "They seem like the most shitty unsurvivable vehicles." They are. You're not really meant to fight off of them, they're for scooting people around at high speed. The weapons are on it as a backup basically.

[@rugged_antelope3123]

My dyslexia just threw me for a wild ride. The British seem to be conducting Operation wet-stone as part of operation Car-bit

[@danielmccaffrey3366]

Nice use of the Foxhound, I always struggle to find a role beyond battle taxi for it!

[@timol437]

Love your content though I fell asleep during the ASMR intro loop....

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's a dual use video- informative and soporific

[@georgeb65412]

@14:55 Shouldn't REDFOR have had no plan at all? If the red platoon commander in the village didn't know a raiding force was coming, then the defences would have been different with only limited artillery on call and definitely not that quickly? If he did know a raid was coming wouldn't your raiders have been hit by artillery the moment you stopped on the edge of the village by area denial artillery? This mission suffers from the classic issue of this type of training being a game/mission, the defender knows he is about to be attacked simply because the game has started, his mission information should have been a realistic one, 'you are holding a GLOC node in the village behind the front, enemy contact is not expected', The fact REDFOR began hitting your raiding forces escape route is kind of stupid when as far as he knew the village was the main target and you were not a raiding force. The fact he had so much information available before the mission, severely degrades the idea that you are a raiding force, it takes away from your speed, shock and surprise of action against him.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's a classic training problem and I'm not sure there's much of a way around it. Large free-play exercises are obviously the standard to aim for, but then militaries have to weigh up the cost of using training time and resources in which Unit A didn't actually get to do anything, Unit B did something that wasn't one of it's training objectives and Unit C was wiped out in the first five minutes. There aren't any easy answers except to throw bucketloads of money about.

[@DanTheBrit2004]

Great vid as always :D

[@statstats3724]

Those foxhounds feel a bit odd in the platoon transport role? Glancing at the Army's description of them on its site, the emphasis is on being a "protected patrol vehicle" that is "protect against the threats faced by troops in Afghanistan" and "is ideal for soldiers operating in mentoring and partnering roles". That last one makes sense - one of those with an Afghan army force means you could get six experienced troops who will keep their heads in a crisis and have a decent protected vehicle to work from while the Afghan Army do most of the leg work. Two per section feels like a lot of metal for very few boots on the ground, though I suppose the Land Rovers they replaced would have suffered far more from the cluster artillery. Didn't help with the BTR though (and if you'd had half as many vehicles then they'd have been easier to concentrate and conceal.) I'd say they feel like a good recon unit, but that's clearly what the Jackals are for - and they've got enough firepower to scare both light vehicles and infantry. An NLAW will scare a vehicle, which as stated is great, but the Foxhounds will really struggle against even a comparable recon screen if it's not able to set up to fight them? I guess in the real world they might consider firing an NLAW while poking out the hatches though. Honestly, just looking at the list of vehicles in the same category (and so *vaguely* interchangeable), the Mastiff with its eight passengers and weapon system choices matching the Jackals, seems like the better tool for the job (basically a Stryker equivalent) even if it is quite a bit bigger and slower. No idea how widely available they are, whether they're harder to maintain (probably?) and all the other out-of-battlefield considerations - I doubt that one would have a menu of options in this scenario! A lot of the British SF2 missions seem to be 'go with what you've got' philosophy rather than exactly the right force (ditto for basically all the Stryker missions ever) so I do wonder if this campaign is more along those lines, rather than 'This is the force we want to bring, how well does it do?' design. At risk of going on at length (but if you've pressed Read More you've only got yourself to blame!) the one thought that occurs to me just now is that a Ru... Donovian officer might not have a perfect command of British vehicle identification, get iffy spots on 30+ vehicles and scream that they've got the best part of a battalion bearing down on them and to send everything their way. Not a conventional use, but if you've got the vehicles then I guess that's one way to try and cause a bit of tactical to operational deception?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Yeah, Foxhound certainly feels like a strange choice. But, on the other hand... there aren't really any transport vehicles in the UK inventory that can offer that much protection from 30mm cannon fire (Warrior with armour upgrades maybe, Boxer very maybe) so maybe distributed swarming platoons isn't that bad an idea. Especially with other bolt-on features- a platoon with 8 vehicle mounted jammers sounds a lot better than a platoon with 4 vehicle mounted jammers.

[@tacticooltaco]

how exactly can we play CMPE or play something close to it. Love your vids

[@usuallyhapless9481]

The only way to get hold of CMPE outside of professional use is via Fight Club: www.fightclubinternational.org/

[@2Dark03]

@@usuallyhapless9481 is it free

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's free, but there are a limited number of licenses and they only last a year.

[@tacticooltaco]

@@usuallyhapless9481 Those are distributed through fight club correct? What are the requirements to enter. I am a civilian teenager so if there are I doubt I would be eligible.

[@wojszach4443]

i watched review of nlaw by ukrainian youtuber, they really love them, aim, let the computer work fire and missile will lead itself top attack for tanks direct for everything else

[@williamrobinson5859]

Wasn’t aware nlaw had top attack

[@wojszach4443]

@@williamrobinson5859 it has though you need to know where to aim with each mode, valgear explained that in detail tho yes nlaw because warhead is not anti tank rated

[@tacticooltaco]

What exactly is the function of the xo in the game and how can we employ them properly?

[@frostkillht]

Men will look at this video and be like Hell yeah

[@Mechanized85]

Let’s Go Lads!

[@benphillips70]

Finally!!!!!! 😁

[@eaglestrike211lel2]

Great vid, any spoilers for what's next? Any armour duels?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Well, Stalingrad is up next on the WW2 front, there's a Basics video that probably needs to get into the mix and then there's the sequel to this mission which has Challenger 2s and T-72B3s in it.

[@zimzam4932]

YYESSSS

[@jimmydesouza4375]

I was watching a breakdown on the NLAW by a channel presenting itself as a Ukrainian propaganda channel (though I suspect it's actually an American personally) where he described that because the NLAW doesn't have guidance and so can't steer itself on to a target to do a top attack it actually has two seperate warheads, one aimed at roughly 45 degrees down in order to perform a top attack when the missile flies over the target. If that is the case, I wonder how much performance is lost vs having a larger single warhead.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

The quick run down, as I understand it: NLAW is not guided. The missile cannot change direction etc, but the launcher has a basic fire control system built in which automatically factors in lead and the right height for the top-down attack etc. A larger single warhead wouldn't necessarily make much difference. Most anti-tank weapons use shaped-charge warheads, for which armour penetration is basically a function of both warhead diameter and depth. So taking out the two smaller warheads and putting one bigger one in wouldn't result in a more effective missile.

[@robin50150]

Hi, when do the next mission will be upload ? Love your vids

[@2Dark03]

What’s the difference between the normal one and the professional version?

[@Lazuli2-6]

This one is set in 2019 instead of 2017 Black Sea and has some special features and up to date units that are not in the commercial version (Strykers with Javelins and 40mm cannons pls give me). An example of excusive features is the replay feature that records the entire battle of turn by turn. I've also heard there's a convoy move order which I assume ties all the vehicles selected into the same speed of the slowest unit

[@usuallyhapless9481]

The convoy command is on show in the opening shot ;) But yeah, essentially it's Black Sea plus Shock Force with extras

[@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev]

@@Lazuli2-6 Also, CMPE gets the ability to add units/modify TOE, and gets up-to-date formations (at least for the British, up to 2020 or so). As is typical with NATO a training, all engagements are happening in the nation of Pirtunia, who is bordered by the larger nation of Donovia, both of whom were both part of Krasnovia before Krasnovia was dissolved in 1991.

[@Poxyquotl]

@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev Those damn Donovians need to learn to respect international boarders, they invade Atropia 10 times a year!

[@lil__boi3027]

​Since you actually kinda the largest KZbinr that deals with CM, any chance you actually try to convince them to release this to the general public? I know many people here would buy this me included​@@usuallyhapless9481

[@dob7343]

Im still bitter that I was accepted for the US fightclub and got a key only to receive an email about said key having an issue. Never received any update after that :(

[@dob7343]

@Arth0715 I did at the time but that's been almost 2 years now, so I haven't since.

[@Dacy_man]

Music for the trailer? (pre premiere)

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's by White Bat Audio: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6aslKuHe5esiNE

[@Dacy_man]

@@usuallyhapless9481 thanks

[@silentone11111111]

what is CMPE? is this the next CM game? Will this be on steam as per the last 2?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

CM:PE is the Professional Edition of Combat Mission, so it's not available to the general public. It has some very cool stuff in it, but also a lot of jank.

[@kamaniwilliams1738]

Wait new British faction for shock force 2??? I see brits and foxhounds transport vehicles????

[@yungcaco1443]

Touch 🔔end inn

[@aanders1990]

Whenever I watch these modern scenarios I think about how different they would play out based on what we know occurs in Ukraine. Imagine both sides have plentiful kamikaze drones, platoon level reconnaissance drones and artillery spotting drones like the Orlan. I imagine as soon as one of those armored cars comes into view of the Orlan it will call lancets and artillery on it before it even reached the objective.

[@Herm.M]

Modern war got very boring indeed. But technology will progress to a new stage, that when electronic warfare make the use of f.e. very low cost FPV-drones impossible.

[@Poxyquotl]

The reality is that all of this stuff has a delay to it, especially artillery. Combat Mission is pretty accurate when it comes to artillery response time, in fact I would consider them GENEROUS. When FA is in direct support like 3-5 minutes for processing time is good, if it is in General support of your battalion or brigade a pop/non-preplanned target can take upwards of 20 minutes to process. There's a lot that goes on. An untalked about factor with drones is the effectiveness of EW on them. Look at the situation on the left bank of the dneipro right now, Ukraine basically has an EW bubble that lets their drones operate but basically fucks Russia, in a fight between truely peer competitors (especially with new systems coming on line) drones are not the end-all-be-all, they certainly have changed the face of war but not its nature, it's just a new component of Fires.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

The question in this case would be where in the organisation assets like drones fit into the TOE. Does a Platoon commander have an FPV drone team under his command? How many drones can they realistically control and carry? That would be super responsive, but then you have to coordinate EW, resupply and coverage much better. Keeping them up at Company, you ease some of these problems but it means there's a delay before they get into action. There aren't really any easy answers here.

[@aanders1990]

For sure. As always it would come down to the scenario designer. Are you attacking with drone and EW superiority or do you have to navigate the mission with FPV drones harassing your units the entire way through.@@Poxyquotl

[@tahaabdelwahab4314]

Which mod is that?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's Combat Mission Professional Edition ;)

[@mimir4965]

Huh, the cluster ammunition arty seems... disappointing to say the least.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It's arguably undermodelled against vehicles.

[@mimir4965]

@@usuallyhapless9481 in your cold war video that was the soviet tank rush it was disappointing as well. Seems like the cluster is bad in all additions of CM.

[@chodathan]

This wasnt covered in the video about all the combat missions (and im an idiot) what is the professional edition ( in laymans terms)?

[@DanTheBrit2004]

Professional is basically a non commercially available (so only certain people/groups can buy it) version on the combat mission games made my battlefront. It is used by military’s etc for a variety of purposes. The professional version has more features (not many more tho) and a modern day 2020 ish setting, i hope that answers your question:)

[@chodathan]

@@DanTheBrit2004 thanks man

[@DanTheBrit2004]

@@chodathan no worries, have a merry Christmas!

[@zulu03116929]

Is there dlc to play as the Brit’s in Black Sea?

[@Semechkaretro]

What download?

[@anhta1778]

Shame the only way to get CMPE is to serve in the military

[@usuallyhapless9481]

As someone who has never served in the military, I suspect this is inaccurate ;)

[@anhta1778]

@@usuallyhapless9481 ? On their sign up page it requires you to fill in your unit/rank and everything

[@robertkalinic335]

This was really boring, its like watching intro briefing twice. I hope there will be some mission where these generic slavic name forces counter this lobottom wanker javelin raid with some clever ambush

[@leonardrogov5850]

Looks like FGM-148 had hit you in the rear, causing an ammunition cook off.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

It is generally more exciting when it all goes wrong

[@robertkalinic335]

@@leonardrogov5850 No...its just my deep disdain for anything british learned from sf2 coming to the surface.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

I can understand that :)