CNC Electronics for Customer Using an Avid CNC

[@hilburn-]

For mounting things on the panel - rivet nuts massively simplifies assembly, and allows components to be removed individually from the cabinet without having to remove the back panel. On that note - those back panels are made of mild steel - get yourself a switchable magnet and you can lift them out easily Also, for drilling holes for various connectors - check out step drill bits, they're great for being able to accommodate lots of sizes in sheet metal without a drawer full of tools, and they will chamfer themselves which makes cleanup easy

[@drewcryan]

Great video! To answer your question about the best way to mount your equipment: I'd like to suggest using rivet nuts to attach your equipment to the sheet metal enclosure, you will find that they are a game changer. They are very cheap, easy, your nuts are permanently mounted exactly where you need them, no more fumbling around trying to hold the nut in the backside while you try to get the screw to line up, it won't come loose from vibration and short something out, and they will give the whole thing a really professional appearance.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thanks. I will try them on the next project!

[@LordOfTamarac]

I built my plasma cutter because of your videos and I love it. Thank you so much for this content!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Wow. That's awesome!!

[@joshuahuman1]

At my work we typically use 1/4 self tapping screws for mounting components, din rail and wire channel to the panel.

[@Rotwold]

I was going to suggest the same. M6 self tapping torx on DIN-rails and M4/M5 for mounting circuit boards directly to the enclosure backplane. The power supplies for DIN-rails are quite compact, might be an option help you with layout size constraints. They are taller but looks like it would fit the enclosure used in the video. Nice job btw!

[@Brownstone31]

Nice to know I’m not the only one that forgets the shrink tube.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

It's the worst! One forgotten heat shrink, or it falls off without knowing!! All of the strands need to be cut off or the lengths will be different. Haha

[@mciarlillo]

I’m building my first cnc router this week and this is absolutely amazing content! It really highlights all the steps and shows why it’s important to think ahead / plan instead of going at it blind.

[@Cdaprod]

I’ve never seen limit switches done so clean

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thank you!!

[@tomnorman5461]

I like to use "star" washers for my chassis ground connections...they bite into the metal enclosure, even through paint!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Yes, that is an excellent point. The ones I did here were sufficient but I will use those washers next time.

[@TheMadJestyr]

A suction cup would help with lifting the back panel in and out of the enclosure. They make battery operated ones.

[@allendugunye4303]

you can use spring washers to prevent the units from coming loose.

[@dmitryserov5595]

Why not use spring washers? Or nuts with plastic inserts?

[@modernrenaissanceman1211]

Do you happen to have any more content with that Polabs Optical Input Isolator board by chance?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Not yet, but I can make one later. I have a few videos that I need to get out first, but if there are any specifics you would like to know now, I can surely put it here so it helps others as well.

[@modernrenaissanceman1211]

I'm starting a CNC Plasma table build from scratch with the PoKeys57CNC controller and from what little I can manage to wrap my head around, this Optical Input Isolator is a pretty good option in this application. I have inductive proximity sensors (NPN NO DC6-36V) for all of my home and limit switches and I have tried to understand the theory behind open collectors but making it work in a practical application is what I'm interested in. You have a much better understanding of the electronic theory behind what this board is capable of and how that would look wired in different real world applications. Thank you for the reply and all of the great content, it has helped me learn tremendously!

[@dustybahLs]

Also 3d printing mounts makes it easy to mount the parts in your cabinets and it also keeps them seperate from arcing out on the metal cabinet and it helps hold the screws tight u can use heat set inserts and the plastic keeps the screw from just vibrating back out

[@Linkx16]

Nice! Good to see the company still delivering

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Love this stuff too much!! Haha

[@jimviau327]

Great video. I find those wire a bit small for a 7.5 kW spindle? Is part II coming soon?

[@slowjoeturbostang]

What size enclosure is that?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

24"x24"x8". Here is the link: amzn.to/3NBkIEj

[@srmofoable]

Expanding nutserts are useful for mounting hardware in situations like this

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Which part? The 5/16 bolt crafted into a screw terminal? I like those Nutserts. I will use them in my next build.

[@srmofoable]

@PatrickHoodDaniel yes, attaching the ground wires to the case and also things like the stepper controllers and other hardware that just has clearance holes. Obviously the power supplies have their own threads.

[@dpsilver1]

from what i understand with bolts and screws they are the same thing, but given different names based on how it is used as a fastener, if its threaded into a hole then its a screw and if its used in conjunction with a nut then its a bolt regardless of its head patterns

[@jessicayoung8230]

What wire gauge are you using in this build please

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

I am using many gauges of wire. Please let me know what part of the electronics you wish to know the gauge.

[@lasaucissemasquee4421]

I'm a beginner and my machine uses Open Builds BlackBox X32 controller. Unfortunately, the motors take ages to move (max speed of 2000mm/min) so when I need to jog things around, I get old before it reaches the workpiece. Would it be possible to hook-up similar higher power closed-loop motors to it or should I replace the controller altogether ? Thanks !

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Are you sure you have the settings correct for the drivers and motor tuning?

[@IgorMoochnick-f2v]

What's the cabinet used for this build? Model# ? Brand? Thanks

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@IgorMoochnick-f2v thanks for asking. The link is in the description.

[@wienst123]

I noticed that most of the components come from Vevor. however none seem to be available. Is this a kit that someone offers?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

If none are available, that is good to know (I will check the links). The main CNC electronic components can be purchased at my website buildyourcnc.com. I will check the availability of the Vevor components.

[@rodrigoquintanorendich6386]

Hola, que opinión tienes del spindle vevor? Es muy ruidoso? Se calienta mucho? Gira concéntrico? Muchas gracias de antemano. Me encantan tus vídeos

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

No usé este husillo en particular, pero la marca Vevor es tan buena como cualquier husillo chino. La desviación es adecuada siempre que use una buena pinza y sean bastante silenciosos.

[@StevenCookFX]

I would have used a CNC to do the panel holes and the labels can be engraved. Not only is it more clean but the holes will be perfect and you can check for alignment issues prior. Also the use of ferules would have made those single power and other wires easier to install. (Ferrule Crimping Tool Kit are easy to find and are not overly expensive)

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Just responded to similar questions in a recent comment. Every cabinet is different. Customers have their own requirements for connectors, cabinet size, arrangement of components inside (i.e. VFD mounted in or out of the cabinet), etc. The cabinet isn't stiff or stable enough to machine unless I created a jig, but that would be difficult with the type of machines I build. That would be more suited for a vertical mill. I am changing over to punch and die which is far easier and faster. If I was making the same cabinet over and over, a jig and CNC would be a good choice.

[@richardswartz4273]

Step Drills work fantastic with a hand drill. Would have been a better option than the mag drill IMO.@@PatrickHoodDaniel

[@a99jmac99a]

Nice video! Do you have a link for that enclosure?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Yes: amzn.to/3NBkIEj I justt added it to the description. Thanks!

[@Vicked4952]

I’d love to build a CNC mill. The electronics are the easy part for me at least. Trying to build a machine rigid and accurate enough seems like a tough task.

[@Enrx90]

Wonderful job brother … I get a question what about EMI ?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thanks. What is your question?

[@Enrx90]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel how to reduce the emi from the system is there any filtration in the system?

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@Enrx90 I did not add any filters, like capacitors. There is already AC/DC decoupling and filter circuitry in the drivers and power supplies. The EMI is brought to earth ground using shielded cable.

[@SodiumEx]

On your smaller wire, you use a pherral connector

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Yes, the terminal used for the smaller wire needs a ferrule connector to enlarge the surface for the screw to contact. Ferrule connectors have been a highly debated subject in comments in y other videos so I use it when I feel it is necessary. The NEC code is where I get the information I need to build successful electrical projects.

[@SodiumEx]

@PatrickHoodDaniel while highly debated it does beat loose fine wire where higher possibilities for them to contact each other

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@SodiumEx Not necessarily. I listen and learn from commenters like yourself, which is why I don't use the ferrules and follow the NEC. Having loose wires will, of course, depend largely on who is installing the wires into terminals. Terminals are designed to accept bare wires. The argument against the use of ferrules is similar to the argument to use them, it depends on the person and tools used. If the ferrule is too big, then the ferrule will not be effective and thuls can cause potential harm to the devices or the equipment overall. Using the correct size of ferrule is best, but one cannot determine whether a ferrule is properly installed in a field of installed ferrules; therefore, the use of ferrules cannot be trusted as a whole. When I use wire ferrules, I use them in circumstances where I feel they will be a better fit for the connection.

[@dustybahLs]

Put a magnet in the box when u drill with the components installed they sell little Bags for doing it inside electrical cabinets like we do as electricians

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Wow, that is a great comment!!

[@rsz90182]

Do you save money doing it this way? I remember at some point in time building your own computer became more expensive than getting an already made one as an analogy.

[@Pintosonic]

I have an Avid CNC and I bought their CRP800 controller. When you look the components inside and add up the cost, it’s between 50% and 60% of what they charge for the plug and play unit. So if you don’t value your time and you already have the tools to build the enclosure and the cables, yes you can save some money but not much IMO. Personally I don’t regret buying the controller pre-built because you see that they are using DIN rails to mount the drives and the power supplies. All the high voltage sections are routed away from the low voltage logic section. Just to see how true industrial grade controllers are assembled was a good learning experience for me. So even if I already had experience doing all the wiring of a hobby grade CNC I don’t regret buying a pre-built controller.

[@mrljvb]

Use nylon lock nuts, they are resistant to coming loose from vibrations.

[@ENetArch]

While installing the CNC machines electrical components .. why not use a CNC machine to drill the holes to mount the components on the panel? I know .. seems redundunt, but would make the drilling more systematic.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thanks for the comment!! Every cabinet is different. Customers have their own requirements for connectors, cabinet size, arrangement of components inside (i.e. VFD mounted in or out of the cabinet), etc. The cabinet isn't stiff or stable enough to machine unless I created a jig, but that would be difficult with the type of machines I build. That would be more suited for a vertical mill. I am changing over to punch and die which is far easier and faster.

[@skydernet]

Great video, but it seems like the shaft on one of the motors is bent, on your test the pulley looks too shaky!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

The pulley was damaged in shipping.

[@johnjewell219]

Sweet job , looks like bluey the inspector approved as well 😎

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Haha! Yes sir!

[@stenapproved7684]

the detail and filming in this video were soooo satisfying!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thanks!

[@Iamtherodlight1453.]

So awesome thank you so much for these videos

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

You're welcome! Thanks for the kind words!

[@av8shunmeckaneck]

+1 for rivnuts and wire ferrules.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

I get a lot of hate for wire ferrules. I used them on previous videos and after the comments decided not to use them.

[@woodworking_automation]

I learned a lot from you, many thanks!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

You are very welcome! Thank you for the kind comment.

[@ENetArch]

I was hoping to see the full machine in action =(

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Customers rarely provide footage of their machine in action. I do ask.

[@umargul5644]

Great job sir thanks 😊

[@nerddub]

locknuts?

[@tommays56]

You really should have tapped the mounting plate as it going to be so difficult to remove a part when something fails and the panel is wired

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

You are exactly right! I will do that in my next build!

[@tinkot]

7:29 I just just nyloc nuts.

[@tinkot]

or you could use a loctite

[@Hossein_Ash]

very nice video, thank you.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Your welcome!

[@SHINdanny]

2:38 ...but if they do all these things by themselves, they transform from customers into people you know

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

No problem with that. I love to know people!

[@drewlarson65]

the k in knipex is said like knife....

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

I pronounce it like it is said in their videos. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKS0napjdslpptU

[@peterk6606]

When testing the individual drive motors it seemed that one of the timing belt pulleys was not bored truly concentric. Surely this would lead to possible tooth skipping and general inaccuracy of that particular axis. Just sayin. Otherwise, great vid. I've built many panels and inevitably find not much room left for finger access once it's all wired up. Now I use an enclosure one size up from the first that theoretically would house all desired components. I guess I was born with fat fingers. Sigh.......

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

I think it was more of a wobble, but he outcome may still be the same.

[@jim.c6780]

Having a VFD in the same cabinet with a control board is never a good idea because of EMI. You could possibly get away with it if double shielded cables for motors and signal are used, like in this case. But still not a good idea.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

The length of cable from the VFD to where it exists the cabinet, and the EMI emitting from the VFD itself is negligible, especially the way I am managing the shielding.

[@simonlaker2139]

Dude's got a bent shaft on 3rd motor(29.50)

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Yes, but you can't really blame the shipping company. The packing was wanting.

[@simonlaker2139]

@PatrickHoodDaniel yep. Heart bleads for the guy. That spindle when ran was scary. I'm a electric motor rewinder, We also have a servo department in the shop. Expensive repair on that spindle, Probably never quite right after that damage.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@simonlaker2139 Agreed. I can't remember if I ducked or just squinted! Haha.

[@simonlaker2139]

@PatrickHoodDaniel lol

[@jesseservice7828]

Muito bom ! Parabéns.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Muito obrigado!

[@ErtsenPlayGames]

29:38 .... "quality" gears 😅

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

That was a result of shipping damage. Also, not my pulleys. This is from the customer.

[@ErtsenPlayGames]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel i know i know Either way it's just for testing purposes Just have similar situation once and customer blame me for it where he give me already damaged (used) parts 😆 PS Soon on my second channel i will post some composite frame cnc machines :)

[@tomnorman5461]

17:09 Who turns-down a connector to fit in a hole...GOOD LORD man, get a life!

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Me, it was the less tedious of the options. Not much material was shaved off for the fix. I don't see any reason not to do this. The only other option would be to try to shave off the edges of the hole, but the process would have taken a lot more time. May I ask what is the harm in doing this? Can you offer a suggestion that may have been better under these circumstances? I kindly ask so I can learn.

[@selcuk085]

Matkabın çok kötü ya. 1 saat boyunca dediklerin nasıl açtığını göstermişsin ama yöntemin ve Matkabın aşırı kötü üzgünüm.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Bana bunun kötü olduğunu söylemek yerine, nasıl yapmam gerektiğini söyle. Her zaman öğrenmeye hevesliyim.

[@selcuk085]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel You can only use a punch with a longer centering tip.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@selcuk085 witched over to using punches. My latest video of this type I used punches, but I didn't show the process. I have the video footage, so I may put it up sometime. Thanks for the guidance.

[@garywildgoose767]

Watching you use the mag-drill was painful. I like your build, but painful.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Thanks. Regarding the drilling, what would you do different?

[@garywildgoose767]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel everything ;-)

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@garywildgoose767 thanks.

[@garywildgoose767]

@PatrickHoodDaniel I didn't mean to be short, I didn't have a lot of time to explain. I build panels and controls all the time for our business. Not cnc, but industrial automation. A punch is nice and clean, and you were right for stating it would have been better. Mag drill is definitely not the way to for this type of work. As you found out, they don't work well with thin base metal because there is nothing for the magnetic field to generate. The thicker the surface, the better the grip. We use 1" steel work benches with our mag drills. That being said, we hand drill much of our panels. We sometimes use step bits in the process. We occasionally use hole saws if necessary, and our favorite multi-hole solution is our water jet.

[@leofortey7561]

Ugh... where to begin. @4min you say you could add shielding. I assume you are talking about adding plates in the box? Any 'gap' or arrangement you mention is nothing. You would need several feet to mitigate EMI interference, not inches. All cables, and I mean ALL cables, should be shielded with the drain to a common ground. You talk about the shielding bolt being grounded to the case. How? There is paint everywhere. If you are adding a wire from the cover to the case then you are making several ground loops, which is not good practice. You use normal wire from VFD to spindle??? That is where most of your EMI will come from!(Have I mentioned shielded cables yet?) Then all the horrible crimp connectors... my god, man. SOLDER+ShrinkWrap! Lastly, Vevor is not making industrial anything. It is 'pro-sumer' stuff.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Did you watch the video? I tested the body for continuity at the bolts. All cables are shielded. This unit is in flawless continuous operation.

[@anthonydomanico8274]

I’m going to be wiring up my second cnc control cabinet and I’m deciding on whether to use shielded cables as extensively as I did on my first build for a cnc plasma table (the current build is for my cnc mill). I notice most people don’t use shielded cables/wires between the steppers and controller. This saves money and effort and it obviously works. The question is does this allow occasional errors. Even Centroid says nothing about shielding outside of the Ethernet cable that connects the pc to the controller. It should be noted that the op is wrong about proximity. Depending on the source a few millimeters is enough space to mostly mitigate the effects of EMI. For example a few millimeters is enough space between signal wires and a plasma torch lead to have perfect operation. Likewise about 3 to 4 inches from a switching power supply is enough to protect against EMI. I do agree with the op that I don’t see any evidence of proper cable shielding being used in this video. It’s not enough to have shielding, it also has to have a drain to ground on only one end.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@anthonydomanico8274 It is perfectly fine not to shield, but wire/cable placement is important to limit crosstalk. You will want to test the signal with an oscilloscope to confirm the signal is clean. There is a no-mans-zone in a signal that the controller will not know if the level is high or low. Probing the signal will allow you to see where this signal lands within the constraints of the signal (i.e. 0 to 5v). Follow wire/cable routing standards like don't run signal lines close or in parallel to high voltage/current lines.

[@leofortey7561]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel How can you not run cables in parallel, especial when you run a chain. Bro, shielding is not pricey and in terms of plasma, quite necessary for good stable operation. But... You do you. I don't think wire companies would go to all the trouble of manufacturing shielded cables if it isn't part of a solution.

[@tiagolomar]

Bolting parts from the back of the plate isn’t very good practice…try to replace one part after the box is finished😂