CNC Mill-Turn Lathe | 10 Months In 12 Minutes

[@OctaneWorkholding]

You stumbled into a business making Royal unlicensed soft jaws. Could be your best seller. Very innovative thought processes.

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you! Hopefully others with collet systems see the advantage and that we can help them out. For now we’ve only worked with QG-65 but the concept can work with other types.

[@adriand.896]

Drilling an tapping into the Royal collet system was an awesome "hack" I wouldn't have thought of. Very cool and could easily help out a ton when in a bind. May look into doing something similar for the system we're using on our Mazak QuickTurn 6 if we decide to keep it.

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you for the comment. I would be happy to help with integration of this concept into your machine but I am not familiar with that setup. It is definitely nice to not need to rely on outside companies when you are in a bind, especially for something as simple as holding a new bar diameter or OP2 geometry. Plus, nothing is more accurate than machining your work holding in place. It eliminates any tolerance stack up that comes from the machine and chuck. Let me know if I can help with anything, thanks again.

[@bikefarmtaiwan1800]

Great overview - no fluff :)

[@powermoveengineering]

@@bikefarmtaiwan1800 thank you!

[@HuskyMachining]

I'm glad I found this channel! I'm a small 1.5 person shop and I love seeing how other small shops do there stuff

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you! Working on getting more content soon. Hopefully same for you. Subbed 👍🏼

[@anthonyrivers8395]

Dude, I could’ve watched another hour what you doing?😂 very awesome machine. Very awesome get up you guys got going. Keep up the great great work.

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you Anthony! More videos soon.

[@tubularyou100]

Great idea with the collet pads. I am going to do that on my lathe. I think I will make the body on the lathe and then cut the segments in the EDM. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for sharing the idea, I appreciate it.

[@powermoveengineering]

That is awesome! Glad to have inspired something. Having easy access to an EDM must be nice. My original idea with making the collet pads was to make them from a single piece of round and then cut them apart using a slitting saw. But setting it up and finding the right tool didn’t seem worth it at the time so we just made them individually on the mill from some 2”x2” bar that we had leftover. Thanks for the comment and let me know how it goes!

[@lvxleather]

Good choice for a lathe. I have used most of the top brands and I have never had an issue with a Doosan.

[@powermoveengineering]

Good to hear. The parts warranty ends in 2 months so hopefully it stays this way! No problems so far. Thanks for the comment

[@cncmach6779]

Im a lathe programmer/operator of 30 years and and still enjoy it. Where i work we have 2 machines just like your Doosan and we tried telling the owner who bought the company with little to no machining experience...90% of our work is for the oilfield and we machine most inconel, duplex,and stainless with little carbon parts.What im getting at is both 2600's have the B axis sub spindle that we never use because it dosent have enough horsepower like the main spindle and if trying to rough out inconel the spindle will literally stop while in the cut...We tried telling them before purchasing tje machines that a tailstock would be the way to go not a sub spindle...That's the only complaint i have with the 2600's....good luck with your business and have fun learning the lathes.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@cncmach6779 thanks for the comment. According to Doosan the main spindle has 25 hp and the sub spindle has 10 hp. I have not been able to stall it but I’m not surprised since we’re typically doing light finishing work with the sub. Even with exotic materials, I am curious what type of tool path can stall it and if the setup can be adjusted to allow it to work. A tail stock would have come in handy a few times for longer parts and I am still researching for a way to use a spring loaded live center in the sub. I know Royal sells them but they aren’t cheap.

[@cobraframebuilding]

@@powermoveengineering My puma 2100SY sub spindle is beastly. I think it's rated at 20hp. Main spindle is 30hp. It's amazing. Mostly irrelevant to what I do with it but badass when you can use it.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@cobraframebuilding that’s awesome. I got a quote for a Puma when buying this Lynx but I was already pushing the limits of what I was willing to spend. I haven’t felt held back by the Lynx quite yet thankfully

[@465maltbie]

Love those collet pads, thanks for sharing. Charles

[@powermoveengineering]

I hope those help. Thank you Charles

[@465maltbie]

@powermoveengineering I have ws collet pads that you mount to chuck jaws. Not as repeatable as using that collet.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@465maltbie the runout has been basically zero because we bore them to size in place. I keep them numbered for consistency when reused but I have not tested if this matters. Initially I had concerns of the material slipping and the lifespan of aluminum, but so far no issues. Let me know if you think we can somehow help you integrate this concept into your setup.

[@williamsamaro180]

Consider running the cutoff holder with the "flush side" toward the sub spindle, then pulling the part with the sub and staging the next part in the main during the transfer. This will give you the clearance on the main side and get you as close as needed on the sub side. Your part stick out on the main side will control the cutoff holder clearance when the parts are shorter and it's an issue. My $.02

[@powermoveengineering]

Thanks for the advice. Seems like there’s a few different ways that could work including the way you’re describing. We ended up just getting another mirrored part-off tool design from Iscar because we wanted to keep a backup on hand and have different options for different parts. Thanks for the comment!

[@Soonerfrk11]

Congrats man. I’m with a DN solutions distributor. The Lynx 2600SY is a great machine and will serve you well. We’re happy to have it in our lineup!

[@powermoveengineering]

It is a great machine! Seems like the right size for a wide variety of parts and the build quality is there. Let me know if I can help with anything. Thanks for the comment!

[@timwheeler1503]

We have the same machine almost exactly set up like yours, very nice. What brand and where could we get the cut off tools like you have? We also have problems plumbing thru coolant for boring bars and such. Thanks so much for the video great info.

[@DJMateo99]

What are the chances that I randomly stumbled on this video and see my internal tool boring bars hahahah. I wouldn't be surprised if I made some of those. Hope they work well for you! cheers from an internal tool Toolmaker!

[@powermoveengineering]

Internal tools have been awesome! I ended up buying those in a used tool auction years ago but I will be looking into more soon. Cheers

[@coreyb4073]

I like the collet pad system, I run the qc65's and it kills me that there is never local stock, so you always end up flying the rush ones. My favorite plumbing method for lathes is the lollipop lines, then we either thread or weld swagelok fittings. Makes it really fast to swap between boring bars and collet chucks, and they hold up to 1000 psi coolant

[@powermoveengineering]

I believe I have seen those lollipop lines on the Rovi Products website. Thanks for that advice. My buddy has a similar lathe that has a QG65 and we have talked about making a similar setup for him. It’s really hard to justify the cost of the collets unless you know you’re going to make hundreds or thousands of parts using it. Op2 geometry is usually oddball sizes so I think that’s where this system can really help in a bind. Thanks for the comment

[@moriamanufacturing6123]

First off, awesome video and congrats on the machine! 6 axis lathes rock! The aluminum soft jaws on the collet immediately caught my attention and I was hoping you would explain them! If you made those for QG65 I would be very interested!

[@powermoveengineering]

My buddy has a QG65 and we have discussed doing the same setup for him. I might get back to you soon on this one! Thanks for the comment!

[@superbadchad45]

Commenting for the algorithm. Keep killing it, Bryan!

[@powermoveengineering]

Haha thank you Chad!

[@Vankel83]

That collet trick was pretty awesome. Have a QG65 on ST20, those collets aren't cheap that is correct. Have about 20 of them now. Going thru a tool rep is a lot better than paying list price.

[@powermoveengineering]

I have been debating designing a similar QG65 version for my buddy who has one on his Lynx 2100SY. If enough people show interest, we can definitely make it happen. It is certainly possible to justify the cost of slowly accruing Royal collets for your common production bar stock diameters, but the Op2 oddball sizes and shapes is where it really starts to make sense to have a cheap machinable option. Let us know if we can help with anything and thanks for the comment!

[@cobraframebuilding]

Really glad to see this video. I bought a 2012 Puma 2100SY last year and I have a bit of a love/hate with it. It's really an incredible machine. My frustrations are mainly in how it's been hard to make it work for me in the context of my business. I mostly do milled parts. Everything I do is lower quantity. So it's hard to take advantage of the best parts of the machine. Meanwhile the older fanuc control is annoying and the manuals are fairly useless. I have also found the live tooling to be really incapable of nice surface finishes. Maybe all of my live tool holders are just worn? I think it might be more about the nature of live milling.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@cobraframebuilding it’s difficult to move from a cnc mill with a real spindle, large tool changer, and big travels to a live tooling lathe. I still find myself making parts on the mill that could/should be made on the lathe because the quantity isn’t there. I understand your dilemma because we mostly do lower quantity jobs as well. What type of live tooling holders are you running?

[@alexkern9134]

Great video!

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you!

[@randomrouting]

Great vid, really enjoyed it!

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you! Trying to make more soon.

[@cwhuffman01]

I have been very intrigued to see more people with the Lynx 2600SY machines. I got a quote for one of these back in 2022, and was surprised to see that your pricing was pretty comparable to what it was back then (although I do not think the dealer was giving me any sort of new customer discount). The 2600 makes so much more sense if you can afford it over the 2100 simply for having the BMT55 turret as well as more clearance, I think the 2600 has about a $50k premium over the 2100 if I remember. I have become a bit of a Mazak guy myself, but there are some limitations and things on their machines that really make me want to beat my head into a wall from time to time, so maybe going forward I will revisit the Lynx 2600SY when a new spindle is needed. Nice work!

[@powermoveengineering]

My buddy got a 2100 one year before I purchased this machine and after seeing how cramped the turret became (especially for sub work), I knew I wanted the next size up. I don’t have any experience with Mazak but from what I understand the quality is top-notch and the mazatrol control can be a game changer for some. I personally don’t like programming at any machine and prefer posting completely finished code from a desktop, so I am happy with this setup. Thanks for the comment and let me know if I can help with anything

[@harrisonhosteter4130]

Awesome video! Keep up the posting!

[@powermoveengineering]

Planning on it. Thank you!

[@jakebpau2396]

Nice Machine!👍

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you!!

[@bikefarmtaiwan1800]

Those chuck jaws look identical to the hose crimp jaws at the hydraulic hose shop I go to . Seems like an identical system .

[@powermoveengineering]

@@bikefarmtaiwan1800 I think I have seen what you are talking about. I forget what the jaws looked like and how they would attach but similar concept. One downside of this collet style is that the clamping diameter only has a .03” range so can only be used for very specific uses.

[@goldentrigun]

If you wanted stronger workholding for the QG-80 if the soft jaws are getting beat up they also have a s-20 and s-30 adapter for the QG80 size. That would significantly save on costs as the pads are ~$120. Although now you're paying a significant cost up front to royal to get the adapter. Our two Nakamura lathes both have QG-65 on the main and sub and I cringe every time I buy collet or in some cases two because our shop decides to buy bastard material sizes. Factor in a extended spindle liner (in our case) for that bastard size and you're in nearly $1000 before you've cut a chip.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@goldentrigun thankfully we haven’t had any issues with the aluminum jaws not having enough strength or excessively wearing. Each set of 6 jaws is

[@andrecruz6203]

For the collet sistem you can use PPBE sistem the colet is very cheap (70euros) !

[@powermoveengineering]

I am not familiar with that system but I will look into it. Thanks for the suggestion

[@SJB1981]

Hi, please can I ask a quick question. We need to make some small cog parts which are similar in form to your throwing-star fidget spinners. Presumably you part these off and then finish the back side in a 2nd milling operation? I'm guessing you can't pass these off the sub-spindle and finish in a single operation because they are so thin?

[@powermoveengineering]

We designed those parts to have no features on the backside so that they do not require a second operation. We use a “backside chamfer tool” to break all edges before parting off. However I do think it would be possible to pass these off to the sub spindle if needed. Would just need to make custom soft jaws to match the outer profile. We actually end up surface grinding the back side to make the knife edges sharp and improve the look. I can offer advice if you send me more info about the parts you need to make. Thanks for the comment

[@SJB1981]

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply, thanks. We're looking at making jockey wheels for bicycle derailleurs. If it goes ahead then I'll definitely accept your offer of firing over some more questions! Thanks again. @@powermoveengineering

[@davidmoeller6748]

Did you drill and tap the collet face or thread mill them? Can you explain how you made the segments, mill lathe or both?

[@powermoveengineering]

For the 3" collet we clamped onto a piece of 3" cold rolled steel and then used a carbide drill and 4-40 thread mill. In order to accurately do this we needed to set a C-axis offset that would properly clock the collet. To set this offset we ended up indicating a vise parallel that was in contact with the pins of the Royal fixture shown in the video. It worked well but a degree or two of inaccuracy might be okay in this case. For the jaw segments, we make them in two operations on the mill using a big T-slot cutter so that the second operation is simply facing unused material on the back side. I tried to think of a way to make them more efficiently on the lathe but separating a single piece of round bar into 6 equal segments would be difficult from a tooling perspective. Hope this helps. Thanks for the comment and let me know if we can help with anything else.

[@ggjjggrs-j7t]

Awesome ! bro~

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you!

[@rhemaislife]

Great video as always. Do you guys go for training before buying such a big machine?

[@powermoveengineering]

@@rhemaislife training is always a great idea when it is available. But for this machine we just relied on our past experience working with similar machines. Thankfully we also have colleagues in the same industry that are available for quick consulting.

[@car9167]

Can you film the turret while doing Y axis movements? I'm not clear how it moves. I assume is perpendicular on X. Thank you!

[@powermoveengineering]

The Y-axis motion shown at 8:34 in this video runs perpendicular to the X-axis. However this machine (and others similar to it) actually put the linear rails and ball screws at a 30deg angle rather than 90deg for rigidity and packaging reasons. The controller compensates for this and does all the math on the back end. So when you move the Y-axis only, it actually uses two different motors and calculates a sine function to put the tools where the g-code says. Hope this helps and let me know if I can help with anything else. Thanks for the comment

[@car9167]

@@powermoveengineering So you have the X linear rails and on top of them there is a sort of a saddle with a 30deg slope which also has rails on that slope and on top you have the turret mounted? I assume if you only move Y axis, it will drive both X and Y servos to keep X in position and get a true Y axis only movement with all the sine compensation.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@car9167 exactly. Sounds like you have the right idea of how they stack up. The X-axis is relatively simple and only uses a single plane. Y-axis requires the X to work in tandem with a 30deg angled axis. I should have included more of that in the video because it is interesting and you can see the movement underneath the turret. I have some technical documents from Doosan that show how it works that I can send to you if you’re interested.

[@car9167]

@@powermoveengineering Thanks for your time replying to me. Unfortunately I have lathe controller which can't do that so I will have to think of some way of moving the turret up and down perpendicular to X axis and I have the feeling nobody does that on an actual CNC lathe. I was looking for a configuration somebody or some manufacturer already implemented to get an idea on how to do it. This is a hobby for me and yes I'm trying to build a CNC lathe under $10k

[@powermoveengineering]

@@car9167 why do you need a Y-axis? The Y-axis is only used during milling so it might be easier to use a 2-axis lathe and a 4-axis mill which could be separate hobby grade machines. It is nice to combine for production but it would be a lot of work to integrate for hobbies unless the journey of inventing something is the main goal

[@zanejesser8040]

What CAM system are you using to program the mill turn? Having a hard time finding comprehensive reviews for expensive software. I guess it is a small crowd.

[@SteveDelacruz-t6o]

Awesome you're in the money

[@powermoveengineering]

@@SteveDelacruz-t6o thank you! Let me know if we can help with anything!

[@rhemaislife]

Hey, I notice that there is like chunks of metal which is thrown as waste from the machined part. Where do you put this waste? Do you sell it?

[@powermoveengineering]

We store all scrap metals by material type in 55 gallon drums and have a local recycling company swap the drums about once a month. We do receive money based on the weight but the amount is not very much, only a couple hundred dollars each time depending on the material types.

[@maheshtubachi7437]

Bhoom 😊❤❤

[@powermoveengineering]

Bhoom indeed! 😁

[@GLAJMAN]

Cool video! I'm not a machinist. What are tooling certificates? *Iscar tooling certificate as an example. Hope you have great success!

[@powermoveengineering]

To be honest, it is nothing more than including additional costs into the financing of the machine itself. It just comes down to managing cash and debt. If I can receive $10k in tools from Iscar right now and pay it off over a few years, it gives me the opportunity to have the tools pay for themselves rather than coming up with the money upfront. Hope this helps. Thanks for the comment and kind words.

[@GLAJMAN]

@@powermoveengineering Thank you for the reply! That sound reasonable.

[@ipadize]

"we also do jewelry cuz why not" Lmao

[@powermoveengineering]

😆 Started as a “necessity” making something for myself but hopefully other people like the design and want the same. Thanks for the comment

[@hamzanawaz7945]

Enjoy

[@powermoveengineering]

Thank you!

[@hamzanawaz7945]

@@powermoveengineering You are welcome

[@renetr6771]

A lathe is more exciting than a lathe with 5axis ability?

[@linards27]

3 year machine if using 16h a day, for 5 days straight for 3 years. problems on problems with active tooling and stuff if you use it more on milling than turning\ ( we did)

[@powermoveengineering]

That’s definitely more than we’ll be running this machine so hopefully no issues like that for us. Was your problem the machine itself or the Eppinger live tooling holders?

[@linards27]

sorry to say RG tools are 5x better than cheaper than eppinger(we had 7 units in 6k total time of work all of them are gone and repair is 2/3 price of new), they dont hold on milling side at all. and the machine drive units give up at 1-2-3k(hr) intervals for active tools@@powermoveengineering

[@ramanaswamy6947]

We too

[@powermoveengineering]

We too

[@ikbendusan]

we have the same machine

[@powermoveengineering]

How has it been for you? Any issues with the machine?

[@ikbendusan]

​@@powermoveengineering mostly good, we have some annoyances related to chips getting into the coolant tray and coolant splashing next to the door and in the back right corner (which i think is because of the 70 bar (1000 psi) option). the chips in particular means we have to clean it out every day. we only use it for aluminium parts with pretty loose tolerance but we do need to make them fast. we also started with iscar tooling but honestly we weren't so happy with them. we mostly use ceratizit and tungaloy now with ews vx3 live tooling holders, and we're trying out a kennametal u-drill

[@madmat990]

I want one of these REALLY bad. I just need the cubic dollars....

[@powermoveengineering]

Ya it’s crazy what things go for. I have massive respect for machinists that make perfect parts with old equipment but sometimes the new features are too big of an advantage. As they say, buy once cry once!

[@Lwimmermastermetalart]

I appreciate the comment about respect for machinist from before there were machines like this. I’m a tool and die maker since 1972. When in high school they had just came out with NC tape machines. Wow how far we’ve come. But one of the best was doing gage work for the military back then. Using an old Ried 6X18 surface grinder and trying to hold .0002 on todays equipment no sweat. Love the DN Solutions machines. I think for the money they are simply the best. Enjoyed your video.

[@iexcedo6918]

Seriously. If you see this. Save me the head ache of designing the same soft jaws.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@iexcedo6918 what type of lathe chuck do you use?

[@iexcedo6918]

@powermoveengineering I use the same royal chuck. Given the company I work work I have to talk to them about getting a big size. The biggest we have is 2.25 OD.

[@iexcedo6918]

I would like to do the same thing ur doing. When it comes to setup for my guys, they can just change sleeve's and soft jaws

[@powermoveengineering]

@@iexcedo6918 you have Royal QG-80? If so, we can help with the same setup shown in this video. We still use it every day and have been happy with it

[@iexcedo6918]

@@powermoveengineering I'm at home right now. I don't recall the exact series number. Give be 14 hours an I'll give you the info

[@conejoyconejamillan3340]

👌🏾👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@powermoveengineering]

🙌🏽

[@RJ99729]

Just found your channel man the jealousy I have how do you even.. get to where you can pick out the best cnc sh** and where can a guy with a bench top mill and mini lathe even get there? It all seems unobtainable regardless of education. I mean HOW.

[@powermoveengineering]

I’ve tried to keep a mindset of “jump in the water now, learn how to swim as quickly as possible”. There’s never a perfect time to do anything so there’s no point in waiting. Bench-top machines are very useful tools but it’s unrealistic to think that they’re competitive in the modern world. I would keep them as supplementary tools for quick and small tasks since they are great to have around a shop. What is preventing you from renting a 1000 square foot space and putting an air compressor and a decent mill in it? I would’ve worked out of a home garage if it was ever an option for me. Set up an S-corp, basic website, and get advice from a CPA. Everyone is so opinionated on taking out loans but I believe they are simply a requirement. Machines are much better investments than something like a car.. Just my two cents! Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks for the comment

[@tunnel7]

First mistake you NEVER peck drill a ''U'' Drill NEVER!! Why would you do that crazy.

[@powermoveengineering]

@@tunnel7 If the chips aren’t breaking then pecking might be needed. This can be caused by not having the correct inserts for the material or the setup not allowing for ideal speeds/feeds. Worst case with pecking is that it wears the inserts faster but they still last almost forever so I don’t really see any issues with it.

[@chungus1714]

Bro made me mad in the first 5 seconds (yes i‘m a mill guy)

[@powermoveengineering]

For me it’s the finishes. Single point turning makes beautiful surfaces with basically no effort. But I do love how versatile mills can be. You can make anything with a mill!