CNC Router Spindle Test 1.2 Kw vs 2.2 Kw: This Test Will Help You Decide

[@michaelgmyers]

I found it very helpful. I ordered the Altmill last month with the 1.2 spindle. No 220 in my shop. Now I see that I must upgrade to keep my man card valid. Thanks for the great video. I did not know I would be limited to .25 bits.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Thank you!! Lol on the man card! Yes the 1.2 has an er11 collet which only goes up to 1/4" bits, the 2.2 has an er20 collet allowing up to 1/2" bits. I'm glad you found it useful!

[@southernjoes8372]

Yeah unfortunately I bought a LongMill MK2 and quickly found out they aren’t easily upgradable. You might want to check with Sienci Labs to see if the SLB will be upgradable to a 2.2kw spindle.

[@frankshannon3235]

I assume you have your AltMill by now. So what do you think?

[@michaelgmyers]

@ yes I received it mid October. Haven't been able to use it yet. Technical issues. My Vortex arrives tomorrow. I don't want to say anything negative but I'm disappointed I'm unable to use it and and I'm not feeling confident about a quick resolution.

[@Kris-P343]

Thanks for doing this comparison! I ordered my Shapeoko 5 Pro 4x4 a few days ago, I went with the 65mm spindle for now since most of my projects tend to be smaller but that 80mm is mighty impressive. Keep up the great work!

[@StudioZ72.create]

Your welcome! You'll be very happy with the 65mm, you can't go wrong with either of these spindles. I'm glad you enjoyed it, Thank you!

[@GregCormier]

That was me asking for the full DOC! Thanks for finally testing and showing what this machine can actually do. It would be nice if every manufacturer did this for us to show off the rigidity!

[@StudioZ72.create]

Your welcome! Yes I wasn't sure if I had gone far enough for the comparison and when I saw your comment I knew I needed more. Thanks for the push, I needed it. Glad you enjoyed it!!

[@steveward8070]

Thank you very much for that test! I was leaning towards the 2.2kW spindle in order to eventually machine aluminum, but your comparative test convinced me.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Awesome! I'm so glad it helped you out!

[@JarppaGuru]

we can use file and 1 human power do aluminium xD. i can cut aluminium even not have 700w expensive loud router. trick is take less. not for production. just for hobby. cost not problem part is done after you click green button and go coffee

[@blindness2sight119]

Hi, I've had the 2.2kw 8 amp spindle for a year or so and in my opinion it is more than capable of your tests and more. The chatter that you experienced on the heavier cuts, I would say, is a matter of adjusting the rpm. In my experience, actually slowing down the rpm slightly can greatly reduce the chatter. I am by no means an expert though.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey! Yes your definitely correct that spindle can do a lot more than what I covered in the video. I just didn't want to hurt or damage a brand new spindle but to get somewhat close. I also never made a full depth pass so I wanted to be safe and crank up the rpm, not paying attention to cut quality. I'm glad you enjoyed it! More cool stuff to come!

[@JonathanJoseph-t7y]

Thanks for this. I was looking for evidence that the 2.2 would do what I need. Ordering an 8 spindle machine and was considering upgrading to 3.0 kw but don't think I need to.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Awesome! Glad the video helped, you will love the 2.2 kw

[@popshobbydungeon]

the fact that you can use 1/2 inch shank bits is amazing in it self I break so many 1/4 inch bits that this alone will save me money Regards, Rick

[@StudioZ72.create]

So true, the extra rigidity and larger assortment of bits is awesome! Best, Pete

[@davidcmckee]

I am interested in purchasing the Shapeoko 5 Pro and want to use it to cut 3/4 in cabinet grade pre finished plywood for closets. I would like it to be able to do the cuts so I don't have to use my track saw or table saw. I also will not have to use jigs for the shelf pins as this is very time consuming. Is this a reasonable idea with the 1.2KW spindle? I would also need to tile the work to cut the 4 x 8 plywood. Would the cuts be clean like a table saw and would the speed be long to cut out the cabinet panels? I would appreciate your comments.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey there! Yes the Shapeoko 5 Pro can do all of the things you are asking for. The 1.2 kw is certainly capable of handling the task however at a slower feed rate than the 2.2 kw and it will require multiple passes. However, to get the cleanest cut I would recommend a compression bit, keep it sharp and watch your feed rates, don't go to fast.

[@C-M-E]

I've got a 2.2 unit and a new VFD on my upgrade list when I get some more space for a Big machine, but man she was squealing a wee bit, still very doable! Kinda thinking I might have to go full mad scientist on the next build and do a murphy bed-type option to bolt to the wall. The shop is small and already cluttered. 👍

[@StudioZ72.create]

You won't be disappointed with the upgrade! Yeah it was squealing a lot with the 3/8" 2 flute upcut endmill and I tried different speeds and feed rates, hardly changed. I ordered a new one with a coating to see if it helps. Maybe that bit was getting dull? The murphy bed idea sounds like it could work, although maybe too heavy to lift up? The machine is over 200lbs. I've seen it done in other videos though with a different machine. Us small shop guys have to be creative 👍

[@carlospenagos1489]

Hola. El 1.5 kw sirve con nemas 23?. E visto cnc con buena estructura pero sus nenas son de 23 Hello, is the 1.5 kw suitable for nema 23? E seen cnc with good structure but their nems are 23.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hola, perdoname, mi espanol no es tan bueno. Si el 1.5 kw esta bien con el nema 23. Mi CNC tiene nema 23 y primero tuve un 1,2 kw y ahora un 2.2 kw y es muy bueno.

[@debramcknight]

Is the weight difference between the two spindles a concern for a hobby machine like a 6040?

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hello! I'm not familiar with the 6040 but I did do a search on the machine and I found that it's mainly for engraving. I would stick with no more than a 1.2 - 1.5 kw spindle on that machine. The gantry and side rails don't look like they can handle the weight without flexing also if the z axis will be able to repeatedly lift it. It looks like a pretty cool machine especially the new one with the 4th axis, put a 1.2 kw spindle on that and you have a great machine.

[@jessefurqueron5555]

Did you by chance measure spindle run out between the two? Check motor temps after running “production” cuts for a number of hours? Did you measure accuracy (eg, frame/head mount deflection) as the cut speeds aero increased? 🧐. Those are the kinda tests I was hoping to see on the 5, for selfish reasons, as we’re thinking of upgrading from our Shap3. The other thing I think I remember w the 220v spindle, it comes w a locking plug, so might need a cheater adapter if you already have 220 non-locking plugs. Think I remember reading that.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Heya, no sorry I didn't do any of those tests. I can barely get viewers to watch 5 minutes of a video, if I went into that much detail forget it no views, sorry Yes it does come with a locking plug, easy hook up for someone handy 👍

[@stuartsherman5975]

Awesome video. What is the maintenence associated with the 2.2kwv spindle and the watercooled system? Any light you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the great videos.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Thanks so much! As far as the maintenance for the 2.2 Kw spindle it should be warmed up first if you are using it in a cold environment, also the cooling system is a sealed system so not sure how long the coolant lasts before it needs to be changed? I use carbide motion for my post processor and it has a spindle warm up program built in if you choose to use it. I will follow up as I use it for a longer period of time but it seems pretty easy on maintenance. Glad you like the videos, comments like yours keep me in it.

[@stuartsherman5975]

Thank you for the quick response and the great videos. I look forward to your future videos.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Your welcome!

[@milais9535]

I'm cutting steel with 2.2 kw spindle, diameter of cutter 12mm (around 1/2 ") and depth of cut 1mm ( around 0.03") , all day long. Max DOC in steel that i tried was 5mm which is around 0.2 inches and it was fine.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Wow that's impressive! Just curious if your spindle is a 4 pole or a 2 pole motor? Woodworking spindles are 2 pole motors and aren't supposed to work at low rpm, this is why they aren't meant to cut ferrous metals which usually require low rpm cutting. 4 pole motors can operate at slow rpm's and so they are better suited for metal work.

[@milais9535]

@@StudioZ72.create Thanks! It is the same exact spindle like Yours, 2.2kw for wood (probably 2 poles) and yes, it does not have enough torque on low speeds for ferrous metals so i have to run it at least 6-8k rpm. But i didn't mention cutting speed (which is slow, around 150mm/min or 6in/min) and i have a coolant. I have to make rpm reductor or put a servo motor as a spindle.

[@ZrubekFamily]

Does the machine stop and start across the cut like that or is that a illusion from the camera?

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey there! I'm not sure which scene you are referring to but after the first test with both the 1.2 Kw and the 2.2 Kw where the 1.2 Kw ended up failing yes there was chatter in the cut from the machine. When I used the 1/2" upcut endmill on the 2.2 Kw there was chatter on the slower speed pass 100 ipm but not on the faster ones. In the last test with the 3/8" upcut endmill at 3/4" depth of cut there was chatter on the first pass at 100 ipm only and yes I noticed it too that the camera made it appear as if the cut was jagged but it wasn't. Though I did ramp in at the beginning and that causes a slight chatter before it gets all the way into the cut.

[@PopsGunChannel]

WOW thats amazing just ordered one......Thanks

[@StudioZ72.create]

Awesome! Glad you enjoyed it, FYI down the line I am going to try to make custom stocks for rifles 😉

[@PopsGunChannel]

@@StudioZ72.create Cant wait to see that video

[@Bigwingrider1800]

I have a 2.2 kw water cooled 13 yrs now. Stalled it in z 50imp down once but never stalled cutting.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Interesting, what material did it stall in?

[@JarppaGuru]

not matter 15kw production mill stall too if take too deep lol. meaning you try cut too much. there is no rush

[@FearsomeWarrior]

Real question without taking away the performance benchmarks. As a hobbyist is there any reason to spend more to go faster? Just fun and maybe for projects that have many repeated small shapes? I watched until end of video and you sort of touched about it but not about the reasons I am curious about.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Much appreciated thanks for watching until the end of the video! So for the hobbyist that only uses it for small shapes and intricate details I would say you do not need the 2.2 Kw spindle. The 1.2 Kw can do everything that the 2.2 Kw can just slower, except use 1/2" shaft bits. You could even get by with just a Makita 65mm router, if you don't mind manually turning on the router and having no RPM control in your toolpaths. You would have to control the RPM manually on the router but the performance would be less than the 1.2 Kw spindle. Now if your using it for a business as you know time is money and I would say then you should consider upgrading to the 2.2 Kw. You can finish jobs faster and as you know time is money.

[@FearsomeWarrior]

@@StudioZ72.create The idea of paying off the CNC by using it is very lucrative. Kind of lends itself to that too. That might be reason enough for at least getting a spindle over a router.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Yes in my opinion I would not bother with the router, it takes away from it actually functioning as a CNC when you have to manually control the RPM. If your buying a machine like the Shapeoko 5 Pro or similar it seems silly to put a router on it, it can handle so much more.

[@philso7872]

Thanks for posting this comparison. We are currently considering the Shapeoko 5 for our high school robotics team and have been debating between the 1.2kW and the 2.2kW spindles. We will cutting mostly plastics (polycarbonate, delrin) and aluminum. In addition to the speed advantage, is there any increase in accuracy of the results? With the lower power spindle, more shallower cutting passes would be required. There is going to be some positional error in each pass so, hypothetically, more passes will lead to greater error in the finished part. The error is important to us because we make holes that are a press-fit for bearings.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Glad this video helped you out! Yes there is an inherent advantage to the 2.2 Kw spindle in accuracy over the 1.2 Kw and that is because the 2.2 Kw has an ER 20 collet and can use 1/2'" shank bits. The 1/2" shank bits are more rigid and will not deflect under load like the 1/4" bits that the 1.2 Kw spindle is limited to. Also, yes you are correct that the likelihood of inaccuracy could increase with the need to make more passes. As someone else pointed out here in the comments the 2.2 Kw will have much more low rpm torque which is great for cutting plastics and metals. Aside from the spindles the Shapeoko 5 Pro by itself is a very accurate machine. I've cut many circles with it and the cut was perfect when it met up with where it started.

[@fitybux4664]

Almost makes me wonder what a downcut might look like at 200IPM. (Since... you're cutting wood?)

[@StudioZ72.create]

I think the edges would be clean, I didn't want to try it in this test because down cut bit s are harder on the spindle since the chips are evacuated down into the material you are cutting and not up and out. I didn't have a compression bit on hand but that would have been the best choice.

[@Todestelzer]

I have a 1kw router from Maffel and it cuts aluminum just fine. I don’t have to min max my time on the machine and can go with lighter cuts.

[@StudioZ72.create]

As long as that works for you then that's great. But, just remember that the lighter cuts you take means that you have to make more passes which means the job takes longer. The purpose of this video was to demonstrate that, and for the viewer to figure out what is best for them. Any router will perform the task it's just how long will it take?

[@SKESE789]

What size steppers?

[@StudioZ72.create]

Good question, but it's not listed anywhere. From what I can find the Shapeoko Pro which is a lesser model uses Nema 23 steppers. When I looked at mine they have a sticker on them that reads....Model: STEP200-S5 2.0A(U) 1.8deg/step

[@StudioZ72.create]

So I just measured them also and it looks like they are Nema 23 steppers. I put the calipers on them and I'm getting just over 2.2"

[@SKESE789]

@@StudioZ72.create Nema 23 have a lot of torque.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Torque is awesome but how fast can they spin? I watch the shaft that sticks out the back of the motor while the machine is cutting and the motors are hardly turning. There is still a lot left there, hoping Carbide 3d has a way to bypass the setting they imposed(my assumption) and really show what the Shapeoko 5 Pro is capable of.

[@Bigwingrider1800]

And the low end torque like for plastic is sweet. Gages

[@StudioZ72.create]

I haven't cut plastics yet, I'm assuming they have to be cut at lower rpm so as not to melt the plastic?

[@BMRStudio]

Actually, 1.2 little guy holds up very well 😂 Yeah, honestly, everyone of us driving machines a little too soft. Way below the real capacity. Meanwhile Titan CNC dudes driving everything on maxed max maximum overdose supermax 😂 Amazing what those basic spindles, endmills and ballscrews can handle without break down.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Lol! I agree with you, I was very impressed with the 1.2 Kw. I think Titan just goes for the shock aspect to reel you in. However, it is good to know the limits of something. Yes those machines are quite tough but I think everyone is so afraid that they will ruin the accuracy of the machine and so they baby them. Cheers!

[@Shorrey]

From my supplier, the price difference between 1.5 kW and 2.2 kW is only like $50. I see no reason buying 1.5 kW in this case, even if right now i don't need such power.

[@StudioZ72.create]

What's the price difference between a 1.2 kw and a 2.2kw? Just curious, what comes with the spindles from your supplier?

[@romanhuante]

If your 2.2kw requires a 220V outlet that might be a challenge to set up. I thought the same thing too but then when I found out it would cost a few grand to install an outlet for it I ended up sending it back. So just a heads up :)

[@Shorrey]

@@romanhuante i live in Sweden, we have only 220 here.

[@romanhuante]

@@ShorreyAwesome. Then it's a no-brainer for sure! :)

[@mattivirta]

i just last month buy 2,2KW spndle and i looking 2-3 month what size and were i buy budget has limiter less 200$. and i see all 1,5KW and 2,2KW have very similar cost, no lot different, i buy 2,2KW because can buy same price than 1,5KW about, 130$ only spindle. and VFD need new biggest cost 2,2KW VFD 70$ thats not bad budget builders 200€ lot better spindle. no waste money lot, i has before 800W air cooled spindle and has good if use only small job and not have busy. only wood.

[@donepearce]

I'd like to see this test with a power meter on the spindle.

[@StudioZ72.create]

On both spindles?

[@donepearce]

@@StudioZ72.create absolutely. The actual amount of power in use. Particularly as the spindle is slowing down would be very interesting.

[@aha5888]

Any update on this. Actual wattage during operation?

[@chrisdesignco]

The better test would be the 1.5kw 80mm spindle vs the 2.2kw 80mm. 65mm vs 80mm is in my opinion not a true test. Unless your goal is to test the 65mm to 80mm

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey there, so the purpose of this test, which I mentioned in the beginning of the video, is to help someone decide which spindle is right for them. Is the 1.2 kw going to be enough or do I need the 2.2 kw? This video helps to answer that question, it wasn't meant to be a power comparison between the two.

[@61quick]

The difference is about 1.35 HP. In case no one wants to do the math...

[@StudioZ72.create]

That's pretty cool! Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the 2.2 Kw spindle is around 3 hp? Which would put the 1.2 Kw just under 2 hp? But the difference is in the torque. The 2.2 Kw running on 220 volts and weighing much more than the 1.2 Kw will have much more torque because your spinning a heavier mass.

[@GregCormier]

@@StudioZ72.create I think these are also all measured at peak power which is typically max RPM - running 18k RPM will leave some power on the table. I think that's why it's nice to get the 2.2kW as some bigger bits will not be happy at max rpm.

[@pinkeye00]

Throw in some wavy zig-zags :)

[@StudioZ72.create]

I'll have to include that on the next one, I also found out how to speed up the machine!

[@southernjoes8372]

My 2.2kw will easily run at 400 at .25 depth, even on hard maple

[@StudioZ72.create]

Good to know! Now if I can only find out if it's possible to speed up the Shapeoko 5 Pro above 200 inches per minute. It's not a big deal but it would be nice.

[@FrazerCanyonWoodworks]

@@StudioZ72.createI believe max right now is 275ipm

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey there! Just wondering if this is a speed you achieved or heard about? Because I couldn't get my S5 Pro to go above 198 ipm in a straight line during machining. Yes it peaked out at like 270 ipm when moving around after initializing but not while cutting.

[@woodcraftloop]

Yeah, this spindle has no lack of power for the tests you did. The chatter on higher speed are due to the router bit not being capable for cutting with that speed and starts to tear.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Interesting, when you say higher speed do you mean RPM? Or the feed rate?

[@woodcraftloop]

@@StudioZ72.createi meant a feed rate to rpm ratio. You were reaching close to the cutting limits of the bit you tested with. Once a cutter is forced to cut too big junks due to a high feed rate to rmp ratio, it starts to tear, bend and resonate. You can also audibly hear the bit struggling and resonating on some cuts. If you want to test the limit of the 2.2kw spindle some more, test it with a 4 flute bits, so you don't reach the limit of the bit so easily.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Great insight, Thanks. Yes I was a little nervous about the 2 flute bit being that it's core is quite thin/flimsy but I didn't have a 3 or 4 flute bit around that has a more stout core. 👍

[@JarppaGuru]

nothing else see on video than success you bought both. could save money not buy 1.2 lol well it was huge deal before and expensive..now price tell how useless it is lol. it spin fast so small tools small cuts. there no need go full depth and make goove. we mill highspeed on production we take full depth but side depth less. take away same amount material minute so it same fast as go full depth and mill wide and slow speed. it was allready marketed highspeed "the future" LOL why people still go mill wide cuts lol

[@StudioZ72.create]

Glad you enjoyed it! Just so you understand the video was made to help someone decide whether or not they need the power of the 2.2kw 👍

[@mattivirta]

no matter have 220V wall socket, all world 90% uses normal 220V elektric, only some ap-normal old cavemen country uses today 110V. because not understand change 220V better and safety more volts.

[@StudioZ72.create]

220v 💪 much better

[@Aftab_Baloch.]

please cut some aluminium also with half of this parameter

[@StudioZ72.create]

Hey there! Sorry the 1.2 Kw spindle has already been removed from the machine. Only the 2.2 Kw spindle could be tested at this point but I don't work with metals, it's possible , I'll have to look into it.

[@D-GatDesignsLLC]

Really not much of a comparison video if you're already talking about the 65mm failing. Additionally, 200ipm factory set limit tells me that machine falls short compared to others

[@StudioZ72.create]

The purpose of the test is to point out how far each spindle will go before reaching failure or close to it, and then the consumer can use this information to determine which spindle is right for them when purchasing one. The 200 ipm was discovered during the test and I'm hoping something happens with that. I believe all machines have a governed speed that most of the time has to be manually overridden and this one just happens to be a little low.

[@ginomaneri9703]

I’m have run a ⅜” bit in aluminum with a 0.0375” step over with the 2.2 kw spindle no problem.

[@StudioZ72.create]

Nice! How deep?

[@ginomaneri9703]

@@StudioZ72.create 0.375” depth.