Coaxial vs. conventional 2-way loudspeakers

[@ArlenMoulton2]

*Attention* If you're going to comment about how much noise the powerplant puts onto the video audio then DON'T! It's because the top cover is removed, and the noise is RF, this won't affect an audio system, the wireless mic uses RF which is why that is affected. And for those saying that the top cover of these things is plastic, it's not, it's metal, with MDF glued to it, and a piano gloss black finish applied to that.

[@djmyr]

Great explanation, thank you so much. I just bought some Fulcrum FA22ACs, which seems to be a hybrid between a 2-way and a coaxial design. It’s two 12” drivers, with one of them having a tweeter in it. Hopefully they sound good.

[@foodstampz]

Those are amazing

[@djmyr]

@@foodstampz I love love love them. Also bought some FA12ac's, hard to find because they're discontinued

[@no_bull]

When talking about Dual Concentric loudspeakers, Tannoy is the king. They don't have the typical issues with on-axis and off-axis sound performance on the higher frequencies, no significant toe-in of the speakers is required, sound dispersion is really good. I can move around within the room or sit down into my listening position without losing detail of sound (to an extent) as much as a 2 or 2.5 or 3 way speakers would sound like, I have Dual Concentric loudspeakers and transmission line type loudspeakers all made from Tannoy, certainly the dispersion of the sound at different listening locations is evident. That's the beauty of Tannoy dual concentric drivers, a point source, phase coherent design and time aligned

[@w4cht3l]

Piega builds coaxial drivers where the tweeter AND the surrounding midrange are ribbons. As far as I know they are the only one doing that. Plus their speakers look awesome!

[@Stan_the_Belgian]

And they sound amazing

[@vne2328]

Answer starts @ 7:10

[@mankepoot9440]

Elac build a coaxial with AMT tweeter.

[@BiddieTube]

I have seen speakers like that, a woofer with what looks like a tweeter in the center. But, I have had this kind of speaker, but the center speaker was also a woofer. It was a woofer in tweeter's clothing! This gives you two woofers in one space.

[@Justwantahover]

There is another problem with the KEF Uni Q speakers. The woofer voice coil is twice the size as it would normally be, with way more weight it would affect the med transient response.

[@stevekirby7333]

Have you heard any Danley Synergy boxes? Very clever point source design overcoming many of the issues of a horn or coaxial driver.

[@Woofy-tm8si]

Any number of speakers perform and image well in their sweet spot. The problem is that most sweet spots are very narrow, often making listening a "party of one" or two at most before significant loss of sound quality. Music listening in my household is far more social so speakers with concentric drivers offer far better performance when playing to a crowd, for lack of a better word. I have Elacs in the family room surround system and they're terrific. The only non-concentic driver speaker I've heard that could compete with them is my pair of Seas Idunn standmounts, sold only as a kit through Madisound. Seas drivers, made in Norway, are some of the finest available. The list of speaker companies using their drivers reads like a who's who list of high-end audio. The Idunns, using their unique DXT waveguide tweeters, have usable horizontal dispersion as wide as 60-degrees off axis while having a measured frequency response of 50Hz to 20KHz +/- 1.5 db up to 15 degrees off axis! You can sit almost anywhere and they sound great. Their sweet spot for critical listening is nearly 8 feet wide and they constantly pull a disappearing act while imaging holograhically. I built a pair of them using Clarity caps, Mundorf resistors and Goertz copper foil inductors in series in the crossovers assembled by Madisound. I have an RSL Speedwoofer 10S subwoofer taking up the bass below 60 Hz. The combination absolutely slays anything in the $5K neighborhood and it drives my audiophile friends bonkers because the Idunns (in sapele figured veneer) and the sub set me back less than $1200. Now I'm saving up to get a Stellar S300 stereo amp for them...

[@Justwantahover]

For the high end stuff, you would be right, it (technically) sounds better if they are separate. But for the cheap stuff, a small tweeter won't really make that much difference to crappy separate tweeters, and the benefit of the point source sound enhances the cheap stereos so much more (and more bang for your buck). I got some $50 1.5 " (1" soft domes) and I can't really tell the difference between them and other 1" soft domes tweeters of the same price, that have large magnets.

[@marcbegine]

"Piega" (Swiss) loudspeakers have coaxial high and midrange Oskar Heill AMT speakers (Piega Coax 711 and 311)

[@canadianwildlifeservice8883]

I'm very surprised he did not mention that the biggest advantage of coaxial speakers is for nearfield listening. He mentioned point source, but gave a vague explanation of why point source would be needed. Since the tweeter is perfectly in the center, the time alignment of the bass and treble are perfect as the entire frequency range reaches the listener at the same time. If you need to sit close to your speakers, like at a computer desk, concentric speakers would be hard to beat. I almost went for the KEF speakers, but was turned away by the reviews claiming that the midrange was not that great. KEF and Elac make variations of concentric drivers but it's not truly concentric as there is a woofer on bottom and concentric midrange/tweeter on top.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

You forgot the difference between cocentric and coaxial . All SEAS coaxes for example are truly cocentric , where the tweeter is positioned in the dustcap position . As such the tweeter and the woofer share the same acoustic center . Cheaper coaxes do put the tweeter in front of the woofer's acoustic center with associated acoustic problems . The main benefit of a true cocentric coax driver is supreme imaging .

[@alb.1911]

Thanks Paul, sad that you didn't mention the Tannoy? Did you ever listened the Westminster?

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

I probably have over the years but don't remember specifically.

[@terrywho22]

KEF and Wilson? Sounds like Mrs. Terry has great taste in speakers!

[@drbarney1000]

What about magnetic planar such as Magnepan? I auditioned them and - notwithstanding their modest price - they sounded more like live music in the opera house (one with good acoustics) than $50,000+ speakers I heard the dealer demonstrate during a loudspeaker conference to which the public had been invited.

[@goncalocarvalho4917]

Hello Paul, i guess i agree BUT dont know if you have heard the piegas with coaxial ribons for tweeter and medium frequencies? They sound wonderful detailed and extended and fast and dynamic, so much that the bass with convencional woofers gets a bit left behind. Piega even have line source systems also. Have you heard their top speakers? Each and every coaxial ribon is built by hand by one engineer! It is crazy...but do sound great if a bit analytical for some people.

[@bilguana11]

ELAC's VX-JET has a Heil tweeter surrounded by a ring radiator.

[@parkeranderson1172]

Paul: check out radian. They are designing coaxial ribbon arrays with the woofer behind as you mention

[@soulshinobi]

0:58 I am so sorry but I'm just repeating this 2-second clip and laughing every time.

[@TheNadasvada]

There is speaker manufakturers who make co-axial speakers with ribbon tweeters. Can't remember the brand at the moment, but I know they exist. Edit: I remember now, it was Elac with their Jet AMT in a co-axial config.

[@Grassy_Gnoll]

Since I got my Elac UF5s, it's been like the performers are literally standing in the room singing.

[@lloyd.8272]

I find my 2 way Qacoustics image and produce soundstage better than my coaxial tannoys. Just goes to show a well designed two way can be better.

[@pedroluisguillemain5683]

Hello Darren. Wich model of Q Acoustics and Tannoys do you have?

[@lloyd.8272]

Pedro Luis Guillemain QAcoustics 3050i Tannoy XT 8F

[@tothemax324]

I listened to both at a retailer and went for the Tannoy

[@lloyd.8272]

To The Max how were they set up? Mine are 19’’ from the wall and 90’ apart and sat 90’’ away. Also have a slight tow in so the speakers are facing my shoulders. Tannoys are good but I definitely don’t get the precise imaging and depth of the 3050i and I’ve tried lots of positions with them.

[@tothemax324]

@@lloyd.8272 Tannoy Turnberry Prestige GR, simply the best speakers I have ever heard

[@akrocuba]

Bose .2 series are like that….somewhat. I have 6.2’s and they have two tweeters in the center of the woofer. AND THEY SOUND GREAT!!! Everyone’s ears hear differently. Listening to music is a very personal thing.

[@littlegandhi1199]

What about the design theory where you take a horn loader tweeter then when the horn expands large enough you put a mid ranger then when it gets larger you put a woofer. Maybe 2way would be sufficient. I'd like to make one but its supposed to make the sound uniform

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

Ah, a synergy horn, pioneered by Tom Danley

[@russredfern167]

Less space used with coaxial systems.

[@bonzainews]

What about legacy or ohm?

[@The.Home.Cinema.Engineer]

KEF speakers use them and they sound amazing! I Own a pair of KEF IQ90 and I will upgrade to the KEF R11 next!

[@moukiebengal9753]

i have kef reference 5 , r11 is gonna kick ass !!!

[@akuma7238]

My friend check out tannoy first before looking for another kef... You might be missing on what is real coaxial driver...

[@QoraxAudio]

Lol we can hear the interference on your mic @ 0:10 Those machines must be very powerful to interfere so heavily! Next time, put the top cover on those machines before starting to record hahaha

[@sickjohnson]

Paul, when do you think that we will see PS Audio's new speaker lines?

[@marcbegine]

Coaxial AMT "Mid and high frequency" exist (Switzerland)!

[@curtchase3730]

The Co-axial speaker: Compact, simple, convenience, good price point. Common in the auto industry and commercial BGM systems. Get much better high end than a simple full range or whizzer cone speaker.

[@dominicdiclemente8877]

Is all that interference on the mic coming from the powerplant ? What does that do to any audio electronics placed near it ?

[@Mini-ud1dc]

He has the cover off, which means any rf emitted or radiated will effect any sensitive electronic device i.e microphone circuits (mics & it's circuitry are very sensitive) which is why you hear all that noise.

[@dominicdiclemente8877]

@@Mini-ud1dc Are you sure the top is metal ? Every photo I can find looks more like a black plexi top not metal.

[@ArlenMoulton2]

@@dominicdiclemente8877 It's MDF, with a metal panel on the back and a black gloss finish on the other side.

[@lloyd.8272]

Dominic DiClemente well his mic was doing it in a video the other day.

[@johnsweda2999]

He's got problem with the shielding on his mic

[@krismichalsky]

Man, those are some nice looking microwaves you've got there Paul. Are those in the 1500watt range?

[@dagnisnierlins188]

when i whisle during bass heavy music, my whisling becomes distorted🙄

[@akimholmelin9773]

Maybe you should get a pair of Tannoys, and then watch this clip again, you are so wrong about the duals, Tannoy who has the tweeter behind the woofer using the cone as a horn. This is where the magic happends..

[@foodstampz]

He may have been hungover and not have seen the specs on the Fulcrum speakers.

[@joes3800]

Paul, because of a recent discovery, I have to challenge you on tweeter limitations for coaxial speakers: please check out Fluid Audio's FPX7 monitors if you ever get the chance. (I have to credit Z Reviews for making me aware of these intriguing speakers. I am a very loyal fan and Subscriber of this channel, but I find other channels helpful as well. Paul or other viewers may not like Z Review's crass style, but Z Review provides honest opinions, good information, and did turn me toward KEF before Paul started mentioning KEF. I am VERY happy with Q-Series bookshelves for both near-field and "normal-distance" listening. In my experience, good coaxial speakers provide phenomenal imaging without tediously adjusting speaker placement.) ... Sorry for the long post, but one other thing, Paul: what's your opinion about an even more unique design -- omni-directional speakers like that found in the Ohm Walsh?

[@azzinny]

I heard that Piega makes a planar coax.

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

Yeah, but planar mids have problems too, namely their tiny xmax. Makes the sound thin and constrained. Great for 300+hz tho!

[@rig4365]

My old DCM TF600's have s dual concentric setup. To Paul's point, I bet they may not be as accurate as some speakers particularly in depth , but they image like crazy.... especially for such large speakers. Once you get used to their open sound it's very hard to go back. I do look forward to one day hearing Paul's speakers. Best of luck Paul.

[@richardcomerford1828]

What do you mean you have a Sprout in the works? I was just about to invest in a Sprout, and now you tell me something better is in the pipeline?? Thank god you told me.

[@juliaset751]

I believe he said Sprout speakers.

[@jimolson9671]

I love my KEF Reference 3s. Huge improvement over my Martin-Logan Impressions ,(Electrostatics) sonically and aesthetic Lee too

[@moukiebengal9753]

i have the kef reference 5 here , fantastic , best speakers i ever owned

[@jimolson9671]

moukie bengal Ditto

[@timalanthwaite4759]

@@jimolson9671 I have 5s AND Blades; I'm hooked!

[@jimolson9671]

Wow HOW ARE YOU USIMG BOTH

[@CrimxSun]

Hearing your audio quality, I can tell your microphone was a joke too. Sincerely, Speaker.

[@AngeloRanaudo]

Never heard of Tannoy? They are pretty old fashion.

[@akuma7238]

Then you haven't really heard a coaxial driver.

[@keithmoriyama5421]

I've worked with Tannoy all my life -- Reds, Gold series and I own a pair Tannoy DMT12's. Never liked them and still don't. The main problem with them is the horn (not tweeter) has a very limited narrow flare and the cone is supposed to be an extension of the HF wave guide. Unless you're sitting dead center the woofer has a way larger image than the horn.

[@AnOriginalYouTuber]

What are the pros and cons of open baffle bipolar speakers?

[@johnsweda2999]

The only concentric driver is a tannoy with a horn loaded tweeter, what is set back from the main driver the other types of just compromises, you talk about furniture they make their speakers to look like furniture they are fantastic. I don't think you've heard a good pair of tannoys have you Paul, check out the Westminster royal SE blow your mind you feel it through the body not just bass but everything mid frequencies as well

[@stephens2r338]

Totally agree. Once heard never forgotten.

[@terrywho22]

I think Paul is referring to both concentric and coaxial drivers, which would include KEF and Seas (among others). That said, you are spot on about the the better offerings from Tannoy, especially the Westminsters. Holy crap are those spectacular speakers. Thinking about it, the first time I heard a Tannoy concentric driver was on the Autograph Minis. Pink Floyd was playing, I think it was The Wall. I almost started looking for where the kids were playing to tell them to be quiet so I could listen to the album!!

[@akuma7238]

First time I listen to eaton tannoy.. I was speechless. Unfortunately I can't afford it.

[@terrywho22]

@@akuma7238 I sympathize. Maybe one day.

[@Laisvall66]

Got two pairs of Tannoy Eaton, one 40 years old and the other are the new Legacy series. And seriously Paul, when say you prefer the old fashioned kind of speakers. You need to know your history and wich company started making good sounding speakers. And still do.

[@MykeHawke-r9r]

Wonderful wonderful wonderful

[@Stan_the_Belgian]

I wouldn't call a bms 4592 with a big horn mediocre

[@seanmangan2769]

I gotta have me a "dark matter" speaker!

[@henrikl1394]

What says that my taste of sound is the same as Your's? And I love Sonus Faber, not only the looks. But I nearly hate Infinity, I would never recommend Infinity. So , You will never be able to recommend a speaker because we all experiencing sound different. It's like wine, bear , food...

[@linkeddevices]

I wish we werent talking about coaxial. Coaxial is terrible compared to coincident arrays

[@googoo-gjoob]

separates, baby. separates.

[@MrSatyre1]

I prefer concentric, three-way speakers.

[@HolgerBarske]

Hi Paul, ever seen a coaxial driver with an 8 inch woofer and an AMT? Here's a DIY approach that works really nice: www.flickr.com/photos/_hb/40526225211/in/album-72157693943157405/

[@sunnohh]

OMG Paul fix ur mic

[@janinapalmer8368]

What is the NPR or MPR programme? Next time please don't stand next to those power regeneration modules !!... something there was causing terrible interference on the audio track . Coaxial mounted speaker assemblies aren't much cop .. they're good for car doors only ... The Kef Uni Q drivers and the Tannoy Gold monitors use time aligned coaxial drivers which sound much better. I have always had reservations about the effect the cone of the LF/MR driver has over the waves emanating from the centre mounted HF dome .. but nonetheless the exponential curve of this cone would give the HF driver good sound dispersion. If Paul wants to build the new AN speaker systems I do hope he time aligns whatever drivers he uses. The one thing that seems to be missing with the IRS V 's is a mid/bass speaker .. there is too big a contrast between those 12" drivers and the mid range ribbons ...

[@SJMessinwithBoats1]

Janina, he says the mids start at 100hz. But I can't see how that can be still at 0db? frequency response? and not more like 9db down point. (NPR is our public radio here in the states. You have had me going for quite awhile where you are in this big world.)

[@marioenc04]

OMG, those powerplants are really noisy

[@ThinkingBetter]

It’s an unfortunate fact that with speaker engineering having gone focused on cost and mostly happening in China, speaker drivers have become more conservative designs that look much like mainstream drivers decades ago. A few companies are still innovating e.g. KEF and Devialet. Would love a KEF LS 50 type speaker combined with a bass driver of the sort Devialet is making in a tiny cabinet of similar size.

[@davebrown3230]

Speakers ,car people would say "Thats where the rubber meets the road " .

[@TheRockerxx69]

I belong to the Infinity multi source line array 'wall of Sound' , don t try to talk no sense otherwise! Ha.

[@terrywho22]

LOL, yeah we do get a little pigeon-holed in our preferences sometimes. But then if I was really into in late-era Austrian Empire composers with a little Supertramp mixed in from time to time, I might prefer line-arrays as well!

[@seanmangan2769]

"Caution; do not remove cover. Electricity can be lethal. Refer servicing to qualified, trained, wide awake, personnel. "

[@mornecoetzee735]

👍🎧🎶