The Hidden Costs of CNC's!

CNC's cost a lot of money. But what about the hidden costs associated with buying them? There are a lot of other costs you need to factor in when buying a CNC and I go over those in this video!
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[@mountainlightwoodcraft]

Excellent video, bro. I thought when I spent ninety grand on my large format CNC that it would come with everything necessary other than bits. OMG, talk about naive! First of all, my machine weighs over 9,000 pounds, so I was advised to replace a large section of the shop floor with six inch reinforced concrete...four grand. The 230v three phase wiring required cost almost five grand. The onboard tool changer holds twelve tools and with collets and holders, cost a grand to populate, excluding the carbide bits. The dedicated compressor and electronic air dryer added another four grand, plus another grand for larger air distribution. My original dust collection system was instantly overwhelmed and cost seven grand to upgrade. So, at the end of the day, what I thought was going to be $90,000 ended up being $112,000... and that's still doesn't include any bits. I probably have three grand in bits alone and, yes, they are a consumable. That said, my system paid for itself within the first year of use. I am able to cut and assemble twenty cabinets in a single day in a one-man shop, with an average UV1 4x8 sheet yield of 95% and an accuracy factor that is off the chart. A very expensive but totally sound investment in my case.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Big purchases require big peripheral purchases for sure. It's well worth it though. Makes the business more efficient.

[@robertbodner4390]

Thanks for the FACTS!

[@JFirn86Q]

@@tommyp1494 You can do it man. Go for it and work hard.

[@wannabecarguy]

1 year ago I received a new doosan lynx. Y axis. Bar feeder ,live tools. 150k . I bought my first Haas mill for 8k . It's my philosophy that, mini machines should not exceed 2500 USD.

[@mihailfelixdumitresc]

​@@wannabecarguy"I received a Doosan".....like in Santa received or bought it ?

[@TwoMooseDesign]

I had no idea!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I'm here to teach 🤣

[@TwoMooseDesign]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds I learned ER32 collets are insane

[@mlw19mlw91]

Watched this to make sure I wasn't missing anything in my estimate, but already got all of that figured. Must be doing good, those aren't hidden costs for me lol

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Boom! Glad you're covered!

[@baileythompson3680]

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed it. A lot of great information.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thank you for watching!

[@vivazapata5196]

Nice setup.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thanks!

[@prestonian1066]

About the brackets for the ducting. You have a CNC machine.....

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I have a few in fact

[@prestonian1066]

In that case, I'm sure you will manage to make a few brackets for the ducting ;-)@@CoffeyCustomBuilds

[@Hog-g2z]

Good morning 🌅, great territorial, I’ve been looking at CNC as a hobby, I don’t know nothing about how to set them up and running costs, Of the machine, I am a retired specialist joiner cabinet maker from the UK, it might sound nice, but I’m now retired living in France, I need to earn some extra pennies and this is part of the reason why I’ve been looking at CNC machines to see whether I can make small things to be able to sell, just come across your territorial, and you mentioning the cost of cutters and bits and pieces to have your machine up and running correct, I still have a lot of my tools, machinery and cutter block, I have 3 tool engineers work cabinets, I haven’t done it for quite awhile but last time I’ve done it for a insurance assess, I had somewhere around £16,000 worth of tools and cutters, that fit on my spinner holder/shaper, and my tenner machine WADKIN EKA , those this machine is vintage. It is a very very good machine., They can do things that some of the new smaller machines cannot do, Unless you went to a serious machine, CNC bed, I think my workshop cost me somewhere between £70-£100,000 to set up, Not bad for one man band, going back to your machines? I would love one of those those., way beyond my capability of using it, stay safe keep up the great work, I wish you all that success for the future, from France.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thanks!

[@TwoMooseDesign]

Even with hobbyist machines. The machine cost $3500 but expect $7000 especially if you don’t have a laptop or software

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I think every added cost associated with my Swift is is the same ones you'll get with a hobbyist machine. You need a lot.

[@TwoMooseDesign]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds especially starting from scratch

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

@@TwoMooseDesign exactly. You are spending $4k on a machine you're easily another 3-4k to get it optimized.

[@TwoMooseDesign]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds 👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻😁😁😁😁

[@LongIslandHobbyist]

You're both totally off. Buy from a reputable company and there's no optimizing needed. You need the most basic of computers to run even aspire. Yeah you'll spend some money in a good machine but you can certainly get less robust machines for a grand maybe 2. People have managed to do machines in budgets. Hate cnc's all you want but be accurate with your bashing. You said yourself it's been the workhorse of your shop for 3 years. As a business it more than paid for itself many times over. Never calls in sick, never needs a lunch break and frees you up to do other things while it's working. Every tool has consumables. A cnc will do a lot with those consumables if your feeds and speeds are dialed in correctly. You obviously know that stuff now but some of your viewers don't. In the long run a cnc will MAKE, not cost you money.

[@fredygump5578]

It's true. I took out a $25k loan when buying a "desktop" CNC router (30"x40") that was advertised as costing $6,495! I added options like an HSD spindle, phenolic top, vacuum pump, T- slots, etc, for a grand total of just over $14k. Then add $5k for electrical upgrades, $5k for a good dust collector (NOT harbor freight!), and my money was all gone! And soon after I discovered how inadequate VCarve Pro is, so I embarked on the odyssey of finding a good CAM solution. Total cost is all of my money! I'm using it to make tooling for a product I hope to launch soon. And while I haven't made a penny off of it yet, the cost of having someone else do all of the machining for me would cost much more than what I paid for the router. So I'm calling it a win.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Gotta spend money to make money

[@maxwellrucker7186]

That’s crazy, $25k for a desktop CNC! I spent a total of $60k for a full 4x8 CNC and an edge bander which included a vacuum pump, and a large dust collector

[@fredygump5578]

@@maxwellrucker7186 LOL! I guess you didn't read past the first 8 words? It was $14k for router w/ spindle, vacuume table, etc. I am well aware that cheaper routers exist, but you get what you pay for.

[@toycarsrebuilder]

I have equipment 5k Cad. Making 30k per year

[@handyscott1]

What software did you decide on

[@MaintDocs]

*I work as a machine shop mechanic.* I've had several hobbyists asking me advice, stating that they had seen videos of vacuum hold down, so they were planning to do that. I explained what that actually entails. It's great, but not for tiny pieces and not for cheap. I'd say minimum of about $5,000 - which is more than any of the hobbyists asking were planning to pay for their entire setup, cnc machine included. That's initial purchase, not including power or ongoing costs. Similarly but *even more extreme on the ongoing costs would be a waterjet.* Ours runs usually at 55,000psi. Every part is thick SS and every part is a wearing part with a definite fail life. Because every connection has to be machined in SS to a particular angle and smooth so it seals 55,000psi, that means even *the most simple straight 6" high pressure tube is $150.* There are 19 high pressure lines and 5 of those have 1 or more bends. The high pressure swivels are $850-1200ea. There are 6 of those. The diamond orifice that makes the cutting beam is $1,200 and, in addition to being a wearing part, can sometimes crack and fail prematurely. We are just below the incoming water temperature limit, where we would need to buy chiller for incoming water. Despite having a solids removal system, every once in a while, the tank will get too stanky, and we will have a septic service suck all the muck out, then they fill 3-5 apple bins full of the waste muck, but now also contaminated with 'leftovers' from the septic truck tank. That's our problem to deal with. And that machine is the most needy machine in our shop. We _expect_ to work on it 1-2 times a week, and there is no promise that it won't need more than that at any particular time. *Haas machines **_seem_** cheap, but their gotcha is expensive parts with proprietary labels to keep you trapped to their service.* Let's say you buy a machine for $30-60k... and *have to pay $800 every 2-3 years for them to **_solder_** new batteries onto the board - or the machine software corrupts* and you still have to pay that but also for half a day of a tech reprograming a machine. That's right. Cheap desktop computers 10years old and cheap $150 cell phones are fine when they run out of battery, but the manufacturer of your expensive machine that your livelihood depends on *cheaped out and didn't spend $30 on a micro SSD so it could survive a battery loss unharmed.* That should give you a good idea of hidden costs on 'bargain' industrial machines.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah good tools cost money.

[@alexkonietzka5530]

Great video! I’m in CNC machining 14 years now. Used to run 12m bed mills with 9 axes and tools so ridiculous expensive… I think you grow with your preferences as customers etc. I’m starting slow, but really great to know about the costs I’ve never thought about. Thanks for the lesson mate! I’ll use it 👍

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thanks for watching!

[@judelarkin2883]

I appreciate videos talking about cost. So many makers on KZbin are just like it’s super easy. You just buy this machine with your trust fund money. Who cares what it costs.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It's important information to share! Thanks for watching.

[@PiefacePete46]

@judelarkin2883 : This is far more important when it is not for hobby use. Equally as significant as information about costs is getting some idea about the level of increase in throughput and income. Without it, you cannot get a clear picture of how worthwhile the upgrades might be. Additionally, CNC is not for everybody... there are many skilled craftsmen who would cringe at the idea of spending their day in front of a CAD/CAM screen while gritting their teeth at the sound of a 25,000 rpm cutter in hardwood. We all have our own agenda. 😜

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

@@PiefacePete46 yeah I don't want to do it. I am very proficient on my CNC's but it's a means to an end. I have employees for that.

[@GOAP68]

I’ve a metal CNC that had most of the same “hidden” cost. Two not mentioned are 1) service calls. These aren’t small devices you can easily take in for service or repair. Service call for me is $1,000 just to show up due to a 4 hour round trip from the nearest service shop. 2) metrology instruments. These machines can be very accurate and repeatable. But you need tools that can measure to those accuracy to be able to dial them in and maintain the repeatability. Probably not as critical with wood, but something better than a (2) for $20 25’ Kobalt tape measure from Lowe’s is needed.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Solid mentions!

[@onthemoney7237]

Wow good to know thanks I wonder what is the lowest Hidden cost machine out there is ? Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍

[@storytellerHD]

We watched your vid twice man. I noticed you're using Ingersoll Rand for your compressor and dryer system. What model and what's the thought process? We're within days of choosing Quincy QGS-5 combo. I searched your channel and didn't see anything related to this topic. Recommendations?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I'm not familiar with that machine so I don't have a comparison. But I will say I am very happy with my Ingersoll Rand set up.

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

Great breakdown. I designed and built diy CNC while back and total cost was still 11K€. And that’s excluding my own work. As I’m not making business with it (not yet at least) just wanted to take it easy. But every time you need to use someone else’s services it will cost you.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah that's true

[@MurraydeLues]

I ran a industrial size machine that cost $200k. Had many very expensive tool holders and tooling. That cost was around 100k. We needed 2 of each tool, so one could be away getting sharpened. Some of the were over $600 each. Tooling is very expensive. I used to replace collets every 1 - 2 years, as they wear. Trust me you don't want a 20mm solid carbide tool doing 15000 coming out. Destroys the work and ruins your day. Good video with a honest assessment of costs.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yup! All of it is expensive. It's worth it if you have the business but if you don't it's a waste!

[@ernieforrest7218]

My son has a fairly large cabinet shop, 4000 sq. ft. He works himself, plus he has 2 full time employees. They also do the installations. One of them spends the majority of his shop time sanding, both on the machines as well as the hand sanding. His shop has 3 phase power, and quite a few of his present machines require 3 phase power. He makes everything in house, including doors and drawers, and he does all the finishing in house. He has a sliding table saw and a large Stribg rack saw which are used for all the plywood cutting. He himself can do all the cutting for a large kitchen in less than a day. But of coarse there is the shelf holes to drill on his line boring machine, and pocket screw holes to be bored also. Aside from the cutting, and the hole boring, i see no big advantage of having a CNC in his case. Unless of coarse it is utilized for other projects besides building basic cabinets. His biggest issue is space, meaning what to do with cabinets after they are assembled yet not ready for delivery. And the money spent on the type of CNC he would like would go a long way towards an addition to his shop. Ideally, when the cabinets are assembled they would be removed from the present shop to a different area for finishing and final work such as installing the doors etc. And from there be loaded for delivery. Moving cabinets around is time consuming as well, and all of that at least should be considered when looking at ways to cut labor costs in my opinion. Im curious as to how those of you who have opted to purchase a CNC deal with these type of issues? Surely not everybody has a shop even as large as the one my son has.

[@casper2501]

I made 500 buck out of my 3018 pro with increased bed lenght and new 775 drill motor that have higher rpm that the one that comes with the machine. The machine cost me around 300 dollars with all the tools and upgrades. I got the money, learned CAM and CAD and had a lot of good time while working with this little abomination 😅

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That's awesome!

[@johnallen8094]

Your vacuum pump is just like a dental suction pump but bigger and they are the same price as the one you’re using!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I actually got it off a dentist!

[@Wolfen6]

$9K for a vacuum? Nah, could have gotten a Black Box Hurricane for less than half that. Yikes!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

You have one of those?

[@noelle1314]

We’ve been throwing the idea of adding a cnc to our woodworking shop at our boss, he’s hesitant. If we showed him this video, his hesitancy would quickly turn into “screw that noise!” 😂

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Tell your boss my first CNC paid itself off in 4 months. This one is 4 times more expensive and will do it in 6.

[@Mattieh00u]

that new rig looks sweet. I though my onefinity cnc had a bunch of hidden costs.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

The costs add up

[@itzshayne_]

You don't scare me buddy. If you did it, I can to :). Thanks !!!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

100% true! Not meant to scare anyone. Just meant to inform.

[@calvarycustomsllc]

Mike, this is fantastic information that isn't really talked about! We all needed the video and you stepped up and knocked it out of the park. Well done Sir! You gave me a ton of insight for me to prepare for whenever the time comes for me to dive into a large CNC machine like yours. Even though these hidden costs means more money for operation, this certainly makes me more confident when it's time to buy. Thanks Dude! Keep it up!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I couldn't be happier that it helped! Makes me happy man. Thank you!

[@YiAmber-c9g]

woodworking tools manufacturer can supply better price and quality to our friends.🎉🎉

[@usermodeactivated]

Hello, thax for the help, Can you tell me the name of the software? I can't find it

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Vcarve Pro and Mozaik are my two main softwares.

[@mitchellquinn]

... can you swap the output of the vacuum pump and use it as an air hockey table?? Inquiring minds need to know!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Of course I can. I can do what I want!

[@mitchellquinn]

@@CoffeyCustomBuildsVideo plz! 🤣

[@terryspross1484]

Is your name Johnny Like Johnny the Complainer

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Is your name Terry like Terry the Terrible KZbin Commenter?

[@InspiredCraftsman]

Very cool! Keep in mind that moving the vacuum pump outside the room will put your shop under vacuum. Makeup air will come in from wherever it can affecting the conditioned space.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Very good point. However the air coming in is far cooler than the air it's putting out. So in the winter we will repipie the hot air back in.

[@InspiredCraftsman]

@Coffey Custom Builds nice! My dust collector piped outside affected my water heater. Was a learning experience

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Interesting. How so? Fortunately no water heater in the shop.

[@InspiredCraftsman]

@Coffey Custom Builds I piped the dust collector through the wall of the garage from outside. The gas water heater is not in an enclosure in the garage. Turning on the dust collector would blow out the pilot light as makeup air flowed backwards through the vent system. I'm in the process of moving my water heater out of the garage now. It gives me more shop space and I'm adding an air return to the dust collector closet.

[@undaware]

@@InspiredCraftsman ..if it's got good filtrattion pipe it back in

[@YTDumpsterBaby]

You could have just stopped at "Look at my shop, My shop is amazing!" Money well spent. Your place looks fantastic and clean. Congrats on your success.!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

🤣🤣

[@ianoconnor1515]

You need to show him what it can do for his bisness and he needs to wayup the cost with the amount of work that he thinks he could get out of it

[@Z-add]

Mozaic software has next to zero youtube presence

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah they keep it behind their forums pretty hard.

[@hunkydorian]

You got the beard, you got the cap, you got the black hoodie, but I can't see your tattoos.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Tramp stamp

[@quietwoodworking]

What percentage of these expenses are tax deductible?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I am not sure but it's a high percentage.

[@ProfessorOfEconomics]

What is the model of your original Laguna?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It's a Laguna Swift 4x8

[@makerspace533]

If you move the compressor outside, plumb the air intake to take air from the air-conditioned shop. If you don't, plan to get a much bigger air dryer. You will also need to drain the tank much more often.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

We drain the tank twice a week and the air dryer is handling it great. I'm in California. Low humidity.

[@Rowow]

One suggestion is to add duct tape at the edge of the MDF to avoid vacuum leaking. Helps alot

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah that works for sure. We water down wood glue and paint it on the edges. It dries quick and seals it well but doesn't get adhesive on the fly cutter when we resurface.

[@Rowow]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds that's a much better solution thanks!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

@Rowow it works great and it's cheap

[@jacobbrown1690]

You make it back in a few weeks. Not a big deal

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Haha no kidding

[@SergeyRyabenko]

Best of luck with your business!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thank you so much!

[@boriserjavec6470]

What sort of work you do in your worshop?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I focus on custom furniture and one off pieces but my employees focus on small batch production and cabinetry. Built ins. Kitchen.

[@thomaskletzl6493]

software for 1200 dude thats the price of my hole cnc

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Everything is relative. What software do you use?

[@thomaskletzl6493]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds fusion 360

[@jeremiahjohnson3337]

Tip I got from another makerspace was having a plastic brad nailer and plastic brad nails to nail down your workpiece to the MDF board. Works great, plastic brads don't damage your bits (if you accidentally go through them and you can just pop off your piece using a flexible metal paint scraper. Of course pneumatic nail gun, brads, air compressor (we have an ATC anyway) are an expense.

[@uwishpal]

Had no clue a plastic brad nailer existed lol

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Those are cool for sure.

[@darthbleh5523]

While I have no ambition to run such a machine as a home hobbyist it’s still super interesting. Thanks

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

The hobbyist machines have a lot of costs for sure.

[@harrelsontrumpets]

These are not hidden costs, they are requirements that are logical requirements just like any tool or production process. Hidden costs are typically unexpected repairs or unusual maintenance requirements. You are describing normal costs associated with manufacturing.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

This is a resource for people looking into investing in these machines. Not a video of me complaining about the costs.

[@fredygump5578]

If you haven't done it yet, consider putting the dust collector outside next to the vacuum pump and air compressor! My AC can barely keep up with the heat my dust collector puts out. I live in Minnesota, so I have mine vented inside...because I don't want to deal with heating make-up air in the winter!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Actually getting an exterior rated dust collector soon!

[@StevenDavisPhoto]

Damn, the new CNC is a huge upgrade. 3 phase is a whole nother level. I'm just doing this as a side business though, so probably will stay at this level.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah the buy needs to make sense for sure.

[@themondaymeetup-raw3425]

Great video Mike. Certainly a lot to consider before going down that route, even for a hobbyists set up

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Absolutely. There are a lot of costs. And I'll be the first to say that if you have a woodworking business you really can't be competitive without a cnc.

[@davidthompson9359]

Great video. I've saved this in my CNC folder so I can watch it when I finish my AVID CNC build that's been on hold for a year due to Solar electrical install damages causing shorts for almost a year. Once I get my wife's chicken coop and run built I can get back into building my CNC/workshop in the garage.....

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Wow what a headache! Sorry to hear that!

[@herlinghandcraftedhardwood]

Great video Mike. All great points and highlights on the hidden costs. One big cost or loss is time. Between set up and education a lot of time goes into setting these things up. the opportunity costs can be through the roof. I have hobbiest sized cnc. Company called openbuilds. Seemed like the right decision for me at the time. Till I found out after it came that i had to put every single piece together. Every screw nut plate etc. I lost about a week of work just assembling not including learning how to use a cnc building the table running electric or dust collection. Love watching your growth brother and can’t wait to see what you have in store for the future.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Those "you put together" cnc's freak me out!

[@asderven]

I can only imagine the hidden costs. I thought wooohooo $400 expensive router. Than I saw the bits I required, that was 300 dollars, vacuum cost another 200 dollars. That is just for a simple router. I got tracks for it, I got the plate for it to run on tracks. The cost is significant. I am building a sbr rail slab flattening, that is about a 1,000 dollars in total. As soon as you add a computerised system, one can imagine how the cost increases significantly.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah the money adds up quick

[@Mtaalas]

You went and bought industrial grade setup to a small shop... well it's crazy, but also you made the calculations and you figured that it'll pay itself back and create more money. CNC is at it's best doing repeat work. You can minimize and optimize all expenses when you do 10000 of something instead of one. Single shot orders are expensive for this reason for the customer, but as Titans of CNC constantly tell you, the money is in 24/7 operation lights out and having single operator tending ten machines. And that customers buying 10.000 of something again and again are the ones who truly pay the bills. Hope your risk will be worth taking. :)

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It already paid for itself last month. Thanks for the concern though. This is my 4th CNC machine. I know what i'm doing. Have a great day!

[@pawelqueyu1030]

I still want to buy CNC router atc

[@tstanley01]

What are you going to do for makeup air when you put the vacuum pump outside? I have been looking into this because I want to AC my shop, but haven't found any decent solutions.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Just been running the mini split. Pumped the exhaust back into the shop for the winter and will pump it outside in the summer.

[@bobbyaloma9214]

Heh my carpentry brother. Saw your channel, Been making saw dust for 40years. After watching your video an the costs I guess I won’t retire my worm drive yet. Just as funny confluence; my name is also Coffee, no y. Proud of the fact I still have ten digits…lol

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That's awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@BruceAUlrich]

I knew about some of that stuff, but some of it really surprised me. Wow!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah there are some unexpected costs for sure.

[@robertlackey7212]

I am designing a small (~300mm x 400mm) CNC to cut custom soapstone insulators for my business , sealing everything up with bellows and other devices will make the machine bigger and more expensive and the dust from soapstone is talc. I just don't know if I need to seal it all up or not , any advice ?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Seal it up

[@friendlywoodworks441]

Thank you for showing what Hobby CNC owners run away from...I don't want to spend less for a machine that cannot cut it.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It’s incredible how much cncs scale. It goes so much bigger than you realize when you’re starting

[@MrLydo617]

Thanks Mike, great setup. Mosaic is great software good luck with the cabinets👍👍

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thank you sir!

[@X19-x5f]

This is great info. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Happy to help.

[@Zynn16]

I am no longer looking to buy a CNC machine!!! Im not sure i want to go thru all of this right now. Maybe I'll take another look at getting one once i retire and have time to deal with all of this!!! Thanks for sharing this TRUTH with us!!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Happy to share!

[@jackmieoff6202]

Vetric aspire!!!!! Save yourself a bunch of headaches. . ... Just a guy with his 2 cents. ASPIRE!!!!!!!!!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I have that

[@konradbreeggemann2321]

does the new one have a dedicated drill bank? I run two different CNCs at a custom cabinet shop and having the drill bank saves so much time over a jig or even a boring machine, but all those bits are a HUGE hidden cost.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

This doesn't have that.

[@Hellseeker1]

I love Fusion 360

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That is a solid one for sure!

[@woodworkingandautomation]

Nice summary Mike! Large CNCs have hidden costs, that's why I made a small one with automatic loading system. Enjoy!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That's cool!

[@MrMaher2008]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds Thank you!

[@wiiperico]

I've been seen your KZbin channel videos and am impressed by your expertise in CNC machining and also for being very honest about the hidden cost of CNC machines. I’m from México and I already have a CNC Laser but I'm mostly focused on wedding decorations and wedding cards and I get my clients through Social networks ads. I'm particularly interested in how you've successfully attracted clients. Could you share some insights on how you market your services and any tips for someone looking to expand their client base in this field? Best regards, Pedro

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thanks

[@wen9222]

Great video man. I just bought a CNC. Do you hard wire the CNC for the power cable or there is a plug like the stove? Thanks

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Definitely hardware anything over 20amps.

[@LorenZimmerman-xg9sf]

Yeah, If you want to spend a lot you can, we bought a used, refurbished 5 by 8 foot CNC with vacuum table and and 10 HP Spindle + Aspire for $5000... and then we built a small 30" x 30" CNC for vcarving, everything is built from wood (well just the frame, gantry, and z axes), as for hold downs, a small wood piece and screws work... just 110 volt plugin (oh.. the 5 x 8 CNC is 3 phase, luckily we had that already) that small CNC has a grant total of $1000 + tiny electric cost on the days that I use it.. although that wooden CNC is only good for vcarving (kinda light duty), and then right now I am building a 4 x 8 foot CNC out of aluminum and I am not cheating on linear motion, ball screws, high quality glides and a premade $500 z axes, 4hp Chinese spindle, and luckily we have a not used vacuum machine so maybe I'll add a vacuum table... the total of that one is expected to be around $3000. As for dust boots, a 3d printed dust boot works, and we already had a 100HP vacuum system in the shop, although a small grizzly does not cost that much... Anyway just watch the video, and decide for your self what your cost would or could be, because he explains EVER detail...

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Right on

[@pinkeye00]

Let's graduate to 3-phasea CNC with 80A circuits and 1,000/mo operating costs. That's not hidding costs, thats economy at scale.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

This is a 3 phase 80amp machine

[@andrewbrown8148]

Wow, that's an eye opener~! And to think that I'm having trouble choosing between an X-Carve Pro & a OneFinity. Rookie blues, right? ;-) Thanks for the info...super informative~!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It's all relative for sure. Many of those costs are tied to hobbyist machines. Software. Dust collection. Tooling.

[@myfourbits6901]

So, I have gone through the video.. AND IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. i AM NOT THERE YET. But hopefully soon..THANK YOU !

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

You'll get there

[@metalheadmachining4586]

Nice video new sub. I spent a pretty penny for mine. Even if you want to just do hobby work / side job it's expensive. I run a Laguna IQ 24x36 travel, Jet dust collector 1.5 hp with aspire. Get ready to drop 15-20k to have fun with a small dependable setup. Just curious how often do you lube your linear guides/ballscrews and do you use white lithium spray or something else?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I'm looking at selling my Swift and getting a 2x4 IQ Pro as we speak. I need some floor space and the SUV does everything we need right now for sheet stock. Both my machines have built in lubrication. One is automatic the other is a manual lever. They use gear oil.

[@metalheadmachining4586]

@@CoffeyCustomBuilds ahh that's nice .Those little Lagunas you can't beat em.

[@jermainerace4156]

That Laguna is obviously a hobby machine, just look at the castings! Also, professional machines come with their own control, so you DON'T need software, if you actually know how to program.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

What machine do you have?

[@BobBob-eh5sb]

I think there is a big difference between buying a cnc for your already established business, and buying one in hopes of starting a business around said cnc. The machines you show here are for the professional shop to do production with, not the guy with a garage shop or small shop. You have added a ton of cost to an already very expensive machine, but that’s hopefully justified if it boosts your business enough to pay for itself and provide you with more profit. Can’t speak for everyone watching this, but I can say you’re not really talking to me. If for no other reason than if I put either of those in my garage shop, there wouldn’t be room for anything else, let alone the cost of even just the machine. 7 years ago I bought a desktop cnc with a cutting capacity of around 2’ x 3’. I got the DIY kit for around $2200 at the time. A computer to run it for around $300, Vectric Vcarve to design with for around $500 to $600, I think. By the time I had everything needed to use it I had about $4000 in it. It’s worked nice for totally cnc projects and as an easier or only way to do work on projects that were created by more normal woodworking methods. Have I made money with it, no not much. Certainly not enough to pay for itself. Most have ended up as gifts or something for myself, whether for the house or the shop. My original thought was to make money with it, probably got that idea watching too many KZbin videos. lol. It’s a good machine and there are many good desktops out there, but they aren’t designed for production work where they run 8-10 hours everyday. For that you need what you have there, large industrial machines designed to handle production and I’m glad to hear that they were a good investment for you.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

There is a difference. This doesn't claim to be for beginners.

[@shikutoai]

I spy, with my little eye, a non-code-compliant junction box - just to the right of your air dryer ;) If you get an "uh-oh button" (knockout filler/plug) and fill the open hole in the bottom of the box, you'll be good. 8:16 Edit: Oh, I just got to where you're moving the compressor and vacuum pump out of the shop. Looks like that j-box was feeding the vac pump, so it should get looked at again.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah it wasn't done. It is now.

[@RobSandstromDesigns]

You provided good information and thingds for people to think about.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That's the goal. Give people information for their research

[@stretchhfab7315]

I love him talking about how expensive his tooling is... i have mill bits for the bridgeport that are 200$ a piece..... i got wrenches thar cost more then his tooling. Besides if your making money using the machine, tooling cost gets eaten into cost of product. Called shop supply charge.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

You're***

[@MrJashuaDavies]

boss has a Kuka robot carving EPS foam alongside me. oh human artist replaced by a robot, eh? well let's consider he needs designs in CAD, hire 3d modeler. i work from a sketch w measurements. Next that 3d model needs toolpathing, difficult skill set to source... affordable options might be foreign. we had a guy in Ukraine who spoke perfect English... and had to quit when invading Russians got too close. Oh and the power requirements narrowed our options down to a building that... let's just say it's less than ideal for manufacturing. oh but the robot is faster than i am! right? think again. it runs for hours and hours. but, it can run all night, right? uhh no it can only go to the end of its program and then a person has to... wait, person? yeah it needs an operator to refill it with special shaped blocks and set up the next program. and clean up the debris... so let's tally up, one 3d modeler, one toolpather, one operator-- that's 2 subcontractors and one employee and it does what I do... only slower and triple the decibels. and it can't tell if it made a mistake or not, it just keeps grinding away. now, if the job requires i make nine perfectly identical sculptures? okay that's why there's a cnc robot. that's the one category where it's superior

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Exactly

[@lazygardens]

So ... double the cost of a "budget professional" machine for the setup if you are starting from zero? Fortunately, a 30 amp outlet doesn't cost more when it's for a $90K machine instead of a $5K machine.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

This is an 80 amp service. But my first machine, which is a budget professional, was less than 1/3 the price. The added side costs made it roughly 4 times more.

[@mattivirta]

all machine can use same CAD and CAM software, CAM make you plan to G-code and all machines use normal G-code not need buy ewery machine own software, and if use linuxcnc machine running software not need more ,all g-code can run one linuxcnc software, only stupid buy all software new if buy new machine, waste lot money than idiot. most factory use only linux base software because have safety lot more than any windows base worst toy softwares, and linux can controller flexiple all machine than windows softwares or machine factory own worst softwares if have own special works. etc. and factory use linux base soft because have safety REAL TIME working not worst windows system . im build factory automation last 40 year and newer not has seen any factory level machine who use windows base systems, not newer working well, and safety and alltime not problems. linux have only who can use factory softwares safety and longtime whitout problems lot. all machine factorys own softwares not newer working well longtime and this have super expensive use.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Hard to understand this

[@terryspross1484]

So let me guess. You thought by buying a machine for whatever amount, it would get delivered and you thought it would pop up like a birthday card and start running right from the box. I get some xtra cost but your like -I needed to go to Home Depot and buy a broom and shovel along with trash bags for the mess on the floor Another $25 dollars, then I had to get a garden hose and a connect it to the faucet another $8.99

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Read the room dude 😂😂

[@superchargerone]

omg 12v spindle?? everything associated with 12v high current will be expensive not just the larger gauge wires required for the amps but the power supply themselves. If the options were available, would have been better to opt for or changed them out to something with higher voltage. Overall, a very nice thorough coverage of the unspoken ancillary cost of running CNC. It is expensive.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

12v? It's 12 HP. It's a 3 phase 220v 50amp spindle.

[@richardoneal1055]

Seal the edges of the MDF for maximum vacuum force on piece.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

We just edge band it with the Contouro.

[@jstarr3676]

I mainly plan on using one for cribbage boards, routing letters for a project, a few signs to engrave things into, so i don't need anything expensive. Id like to match the price of my laser cutter, $1,200. Any suggestions?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I don't know of any at that price point but I'd look at the Onefinity machines. They seem solid.

[@jstarr3676]

@CoffeyCustomBuilds thanks for the tip, I know shark sd has a few around that but then they jump up in price

[@sakimuyusamuel]

The title is misleading. It's like telling us when you are buying a car the only cost you know is the cost of the car. That's very wrong! . Before buying the machine you know you will need tools and consumables.......these are not hidden costs. If they were hidden costs to you then politely I request you learn a skill called '' thinking through '' issues

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Lmao you think I didn't know about these costs going into this? Do you think I made a video complaining about the costs of things? Or is it more likely I made a video for others who are looking into buying a large CNC and want to know the costs? I politely ask you to think thing through before you comment.

[@ersdds1]

Just a thought. When you build your shed, make it big enough for new dust collection. Better outside for noise and disposal of Saw dust?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I have an exterior rated dust collector coming

[@GnosisMan50]

It’s my understanding that if you’re mass-producing all manner of furniture, then all those machines justify the cost. But if you’re making a few chairs, some cabinets or a table, then why have all those machines? Having a lot of machines with very little work, makes no sense to me because it adds the cost of maintenance, tooling, electricity, and these machines take up space. In the end, it all depends on what you’re making.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

There would be no need to have the machine if I was making a few chairs. That is not the case. We are booked into the middle of next year and have multiple contracts with multiple national online retailers. But if you aren't busy you don't need one unless you have disposable income and just want one.

[@danielreed5199]

Everything is a consumable, sorry to have to point out the obvious, but making a distinction is just confusing. If friction exists a part is going to wear down, even if you add something to reduce the friction it will still wear down, albeit slower but then you have the cost of the "consumable" you are using to reduce the friction and thus extend it's lifetime.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yes, by nature everything deteriorates. But typically when referring to consumables the tool themselves aren't part of that conversation.

[@mickob8160]

As a cabinetmaker and specialist cnc programmer and machinist if you are wanting to nest cabinetry I would have to say you have gone in the wrong direction. I worked a biesse rover with a converted bed for nesting with onboard tool change, 32 bit multi borer and bidirectional circular saw. Only additional costs were dust extraction tooling and air. No need for a spoil board with holes in it just a sheet of mdf and good to go. I could easily cut 30 sheets in a day while still edgebanding or assembling

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

You do machining and cabinet making? At the same time? That's cool. We have done 30 sheets in a day on this. Average is 20.

[@deadlift1974]

Have you 230v single phase electric supply?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I do.

[@walterplaessmann5865]

Definitely need to weigh the value you get out of set up like that and the big upfront investment. Value not only in dollars, but time, capabilities, new creative opportunities, etc. Good thing you had space right where you needed it to build a shed for the compressor and vacuum pump! And don’t forget to add in that nice tool chest to store all the bits and other assorted stuff for all that equipment. Looking forward to seeing this new monster machine in action!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It's a lot to consider!

[@mikeburke1993]

Very good.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Thanks!

[@vadimkorob2689]

Any business where you work with your hands requires certain investments. And probably in most cases, if someone starts a business like this, they've worked in that field for someone else and should know the prices of all the things they'll need.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

And some people search this info on KZbin. This is part of that research. That's the point.

[@paulbritton1436]

Air compressor Electric air dryer for air system Dust collection hoses are wear items Tool holders are a wear item Tool collets are a wear item Proper greases and lubes. Can be $250 a tube 3 phase power. Converter if needed

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah that's why I mentioned them in the video. They add up quick.

[@odin823]

if you're doing this as a hobby, yes, you will run into costs that you won't be able to justify. but if you are doing this as a business, you can offset the overhead with profit.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Correct. I think most people on here are hobbyists

[@nickmattern136]

Drinking Game: every time he says specifically “Its not free and it costs money” drunk halfway through the vid.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Alcohol poisoning

[@storytellerHD]

Great video. Very informative dude. Where were you six months ago? We just bought our first Shop Sabre CNC and got caught off guard on the Air Compressor/Dryer requirement. Also, loud noise is definitely a factor as it costs MORE money to buy low db rated equipment (quiet dust collection, low noise rotary screw compression, etc.) There's a strong temptation to go cheap on many items because of what you're stating. We also have an Epilog laser cutter but this is WAY different. Going full on CNC is much larger game.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Yeah you can do it cheaper but you should do it right the first time.

[@rsilvers129]

I suspect $3000 would have worked for vacuum pump budget. I know some are up to $15,000.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Becker pumps are the gold standard.

[@surewhatever8843]

Thank you! I was just working to identify and cost out all the necessary “extras” and it was turning into a headache project.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

That's why I made this!

[@davidclarke5198]

Only viewed this video up until he got to the software, seems to me, only an idiot would not have done their research into these costs when spending this amount of money. Do your research people!

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Only an idiot would think I made this video to complain about these prices instead of me making it to educate those who are researching said prices.

[@terryspross1484]

Ya but why aren’t you shooting the cost to the customers, I mean if a job needs a special bit or whatever you would figure the cost for materials or bits

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Guy, of course those costs get built into overhead. This isn't a video of me complaining 😂 this is my second CNC machine. Do you think I made a video to complain about the cost of this purchase or more to share the costs with people who are researching what these costs are? Don't be dense. This video isn't for me to vent. It's for me to educate others.

[@ersdds1]

What material are you using on top of your spoil board that has a 1" hole grid?

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

It's a gasket told by All Star CNC.

[@MrPINKFL0YD]

Of course it all costs money! Someone else made it all. God knows what your point is.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

The point is to show people the costs associated with these things for those who are researching.

[@robguyatt9602]

Just a couple minutes in and no hint of "hidden" costs. I put it to you there are no hidden costs to a business having done its homework. Don't think I'll bother continuing.

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

Okay bye