CoH3 Patch 1.8 Multiplayer Balance Update! SHARK and Fredsch Analysis

[@paulfaure6210]

Hello N7 Shark !! Thanks you thanks you for this excellent and consistency cast, as always !! 🥰👍 This new adjustement of balance brings many good things, but, also, maintain many bad issues for 1v1. I make 2 parts, because it is a little bit longer, as always. 😁 Let’s stay positive and start with the good news : => Delay US vehicles options and reduce number (longer for a second, critical decision about "late game timing" Medium Tank). Just Lastly !! => US Side need to pay Greyhound HMG roof to make his damage. Just finished the "time" where US Side can reach infantry weapons upgrade AND Vehicles efficiency. And, now, WM and DaK infantries, under green cover, pay vs US Vehicule action, and let's some time to organize a counter action. => "US limit pop" has been decrease. "Final pop" gonna be "-2" number of unit. It is great for the balance, because of "infinity life" of US infantry. => "8 Rad" cost +15 Fuel. An heavy cost for a scout car, but his abilities, to show far, deserves that.

[@paulfaure6210]

Now, the "negative" issues : => "UKF limit pop" has not been decrease, like US side. I do not understand that. UKF Riflemen are so powered, exactly as US side (Huge long range DPS). => UKF Side, Helping the Royal Engineer to come faster on the field and reach easely the murdered close combat fight : "WM already unhappy gonna cry". => "Devs's delayed vehicle project" do not match on UKF side vs WM. +5 Duel for Humber. That changes nothing about the problem. => WM Side, "Grenadier forgotten". Reduce "build time" just give 4 seconds faster to arrive with the first one. But Grenadier suffers with same problem : -33% DPS face Allied Riflemen (US short range and UKF long Range). If a closed Pioneer can discourage US Riflemen and UKF Royal Engineer, WM Grenadier stay "nude" vs UKF Riflemen. WM Grenadier 1 of this 3 "buffs" : a significant Manpower reduced cost (-50 or -60 Manpower to allow +1 unit in the time just before "middle game"), or a significant increased DPS on all range (+15%), or a significant reduced upgrade Manpower (just +60 Manpower for a Jager, and +80 Manpower for a PzGrenadier ; probably the best compromise). => WM Side, Pioneer get +10 hp by soldier. +4s life under green cover. Nothing out of cover. So, not really effective, specially with Flamethrower tactics (which needed often an "out of cover" movement). => WM Side, "8 Rad" Tank doc get +1 Commander Point... Okay, just look at him ... WM "8 Rad" can be stored at the museum (can come on the field between 11 and 13 min, just 1 min before medium Tank). Another counter UKF Humber option fly and allow UKF to not use Boys 😑... => WM Side, WM "middle game medium tank" has been delayed too. LoL !? Theses options was already impossible before. That stay the same issue. => WM Side, Sniper +40 Manpower. He was already difficult to play and monetize at the beginning of "middle game". Now, it is a "worth choice"... Devs just added another of many WM units at the museum. Too bad. => WM Side, PzGrenadier get more efficiency at mid-range and long-range to encourage players to use it. It’s a failure. If PzGrenadier become a better "defensive position" unit, the long range stay a fail, and this unit have nothing vs vehicle. So His high cost, with theses issues, forces WM Player to spend money for PaK40 in addition. The frontline fights cannot keep with a poor number of units. WM T3 do not offer a "good" issue vs Allied's infantry style and fast "late game" medium tank. => WM Side, 221 +5 Fuel ... Huh !? Already this unit cost a too higher fuel (coming too later), because of weaknesses Grenadiers who needed T1 vet. to exist. This unit come back "quickly" at the WM Museum too. => US Side, M8 Scott stay at +3 Commander point (7-9 min), with phosphorus smoke, and without T3 : That annihilates WM T3 options. So, I think the realistic statistics, offered by the "Top CoH3 players", on the "1v1 balance match up" will remain the same. DaK and WM will have to continue working miracles to win some victories, unfortunatly.

[@wFredsch]

Tnx for having me brother!

[@SuperKrisNOR2]

Thank you so much for running down the patch notes!

[@N7-SHARK]

Happy to do it!

[@luke4010]

Awesome! Thanks for the patch notes Shark 🦈

[@akai7sora]

I think all the "moving accuracy buff" + "moving cooldown nerf" combinations on units like the 250 and Dingo where designed to impact their anti-vehicle dps without making too much of a net difference in their anti-infantry dps. You did mention earlier in the video that accuracy is less of a concern when targeting vehicles vs targeting infantry.

[@N7-SHARK]

Really smart. This is a good read. Thanks!

[@BishBashBosh90]

Thanks for the video Shark and Fredsch!

[@ThijsB-se5ir]

Thanks man.

[@N7-SHARK]

Of course!

[@jamesespinosa690]

Amazing. Nerfing the fun out of the game always works really well. Light vehicles are so soft that if you struggling, then that's on you. Recrewing team weapons is half the job of these trucks. They are already very expensive. It really feels like we're just nerfing what players enjoy doing rather than giving the meta time to develop. Light vehicles require so much micro to work. There place on the battlefield IS to snowball your side if you can control them effectively.

[@N7-SHARK]

I agree that they need to be viable... I'm a little concerned that we're going to see infantry into tanks and light vehicles get skipped now... But the problem relic is trying to solve is the spam. It's frustrating and immersion breaking to just see a horde of light vehicles that can ignore anti tank guns because they can take multiple hits. In the end, you want lots of approaches to be viable and the meta was becoming very stale at high levels. But no light vehicles is just as bad. We'll see how it pans out.

[@jamesespinosa690]

​@@N7-SHARK I genuinely do not believe that games should be balanced for "high level" play. Those players are tiny minority of the game, who have the skills to develop counters if given enough time. I've been watching Starcraft Brood War evolve for over 2 decades now. I believe this is lazy and impulsive. When they patch things this frequently, there is no time for a proper meta to develop. Furthermore, you stated it yourself. DAK, the light vehicle faction has the lowest winrate. So the problem clearly isn't the light vehicles. You don't need to kill them, if you can push them off, over and over and over again. While pushing forward. You will gain map advantage. If we make light vehicles "one shottable" then they will never be used at all. If you make them too expensive, then they have no utility. One of my favourite parts about CoH3 is that light vehicles have a place. To me. The clear way to balance this, is to make the top end medium and heavy vehicles cost less resources (or their buildings). So that they can come out earlier and threaten the light vehicles. This then puts pressure on your enemy to strike a balance between Light vehicles, light AT, and dedicated AT. Generally speaking, I'm in the camp that it's better to buff under performers than it is to nerf whats strong. Its anti fun. See whats been happening in Helldivers 2. Regardless of my opinions, thank you for the response, and thank you for the vid!! Have a great day!

[@N7-SHARK]

@jamesespinosa690 you hit on a couple of really good points here. I agree that light vehicles need their place and I'd love to see all the timing adjusted to keep them viable. I also love the concept of buff weak units vs nerfing strong ones... This game is best when multiple options are viable. As annoying as it is to balance for top tier play, I really respect that relic is trying to balance for everyone and all game modes. It's really tough to do, especially with so many factions. If I had to guess, I'd say they're probably ok with shifting the meta at patches because it keeps the gameplay from getting too stale... Think call of duty vs StarCraft. Thanks for watching and for the thoughtful analysis! Love comments like this

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@N7-SHARK Cheers!

[@georgfischer2328]

Thank you!❤

[@jc3834]

Good on you dude.

[@jittersgeyser620]

The grenadiers may be a bit strong now? I won 5 games straight pretty easily. Allied infantry wasnt that threatening like usual. May just be coincidence.

[@N7-SHARK]

We'll have to see. I've also seen rifles be very powerful.

[@Rainwarlord]

Nice breakdown. DAK infantry is very strong rn for 1v1 in my elo. Pgrens with the bike CA can really hurt if microed properly with Gustas being the icing on the cake.

[@N7-SHARK]

Yeah. I've only played one game with Dak so far but I think you have to try to spread them out early to get them to bleed

[@misterchoc2893]

Dak flak nerf is gold

[@N7-SHARK]

Yeah suppression on the move is really frustrating to deal with. Glad they changed it.

[@SuperKrisNOR2]

Can you upload a video going over thoughts after playing the patch?

[@N7-SHARK]

Absolutely. I'll put one together this weekend after I get some games in.

[@timothyevans5557]

100 popcap though, it really doesn't matter on that scale.

[@Kamourii]

So handsome

[@N7-SHARK]

Lol how'd you find this channel?

[@strategist6962]

Bunker spam got buffed lmao. Regardless of how OP it may or may not be, it really just needs to go away from the meta in team games. Not fun at all

[@N7-SHARK]

Yeah. Balancing for team games and 1v1s is really tough. Bunkers aren't too bad in 1s but insane in 4s

[@jittersgeyser620]

I deal with em pretty easily. I think it is a neat strategy. Just build MGs and a coupl anti-tank. Quickly starting eating away at it.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Skill issue?

[@strategist6962]

@@jamesespinosa690 Reading issue? I said REGARDLESS of how OP it may or may NOT be, it needs to go away because it is not fun. I have no problem dealing with them, but it does end up becoming a bunker destroying slog for 20+ minutes.

[@N7-SHARK]

For me it definitely is

[@jacktaylor6135]

We need more british buffs 😢

[@mongolen-kn2yc]

we dont lmao more allies nerfs please...

[@N7-SHARK]

What game modes do you play?

[@N7-SHARK]

Same question... Which game modes do you play?

[@BishBashBosh90]

Thanks for the video Shark & Fredsch!

[@N7-SHARK]

Our pleasure!