Coil Pack Driver Circuit / Arduino / 555 Timer

[@danielstarnes7354]

Just built this and got it working. First project and second try. It's so satisfying watching this run, thanks a million!

[@0033mer]

Nice work! Getting it to run properly is where you really learn a lot.

[@RideGasGas]

Cool, thanks for this. I recently replaced the sparker module in a gas fire pit with an equivalent epoxy potted version. Saved the old one to cut open for fun later. The igniters on my gas grill are getting a bit flakey and it just occurred to me that this would be an easy fun way to replace them since I'm not sure parts are available for that unit anymore.

[@0033mer]

Glad it helped

[@thestateofreal2533]

How would someone do this for a 4 cylinder engine and sequence each cylinder? Most engines have a CYP (cylinder position sensor or cam/crank position sensor) that can assist with this. I’m interested in building a non-waste spark coil on plug setup.

[@gerrymcerlean8432]

Thanks for an extremely well produced and explained video. I understood everything but I still have a few questions (answers would be appreciated but not expected). I am currently researching electric fences. I propose using a car coil controlled by an Arduino Nano. By the very nature of an electric fence, the secondary side of the circuit will be open circuit most of the time unless an animal completes it. Will this damage the coil, since the energy in the secondary winding has nowhere to go when the field in the primary collapses? I also wondered why you felt a driver circuit was necessary to drive the IGBT? This has, as you said yourself, a MOSFET front end which is basically just a capacitor. Surely an Arduino could supply enough current to charge this up to its V(th)? I realise there could be a very high, but extremely brief, in-rush current but couldn't this be limited by a resistor, if necessary? Thanks again for your time and effort in sharing.

[@0033mer]

Spark plugs fail and go open circuit without damage to the coil. An Arduino GPIO can source up to 40 mA while currents during charging/discharging of the MOSFET input capacitance can be as high as 1 or 2 amps depending on the MOSFET and switching speed. Check out these other videos that might help you further: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJPYpqd7jdCMa8U kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHW2f4dsbb52ac0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5usppWAmrmFr7s

[@gerrymcerlean8432]

@@0033mer Thanks for you're very helpful reply.

[@Graemecns]

You mention a tc4424 IC At present I am using your circuit but Using the 12v input which is also the coil voltage not the 5v in your circuit. On my pulse detonation engines using HHO fuel with an Arduino for spark also fuel injector. But occasionally it seems to scramble the display on my LCD Button Shield. Sometime it will corrupt the sketch and the arduino will stop. It may be getting some feedback from the HF of the sparkplug. Did you do a circuit diagram using the tc4424? Would it be a better circuit to use and maybe fix my intermittent problem.

[@0033mer]

The trigger input of the COP is isolated from the high voltage transformer. I would check your power supply and grounding.

[@Graemecns]

@@0033mer it only seems to fail when the spark plug is generating spark

[@Graemecns]

@@0033mer I have rebuilt the circuit but still have the issue of running for a short time then stops. I don't understand when you say the Cop is isolated. It needs a common earth to trigger the coil is there a resisor/diode capacitor. Can you draw a circuit for your hookup of the Cop wiring?

[@0033mer]

Make sure your trigger pulse is no longer than 3 msec (dwell) and the polatity is correct. (some are negative triggered) There are two grounds as indicated in the video. One for the trigger common and another for the supply ground. Check your wiring to the vehicle service manual where the COP came from.

[@Graemecns]

@@0033mer OK. I will check it out the dwell could be the problem It may be saturating the coil. I have been also using a high frequency spark generator option and that repuired 10 ms on time. Wires toyota corolla 12v +, common to earth, trigger in and igf ignition fail.

[@LousyPainter]

You always have neat ideas. Thanks

[@0033mer]

Glad you like them!

[@ccv3237]

Wonderful video! Thank you very much. Can you please provide us a link to a circuit diagram of your spark detector when engine running at min. 1:18 ?

[@0033mer]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJDEeISghd-sidU

[@sidharthap]

Phew! Glad ur back Ken, I thought u got lost up in the mountains when testing the LoRa antennas from the previous video. Glad 2 c ur doing fine 👍🏽

[@0033mer]

Thanks for the concern! Have been busy writing course material for high school teachers during this Covid time. I actually had to walk down from that mountain during low cloud cover when the chopper could not get in during winter conditions. Halfway down the mountain Search and Rescue was called and got us out. That was back in my early career days when everything was exciting.

[@Enigma758]

Shouldn't there be current limiting resistors on each base of the complementary pair for protection?

[@0033mer]

The transistors are configured as emitter followers where the input resistance looking into the base of the transistor is Beta times the load resistance (RL). Since the load is an insulated gate device the resistance is high so there is no need for current limiting resistors. If you want to add one the circuit will still perform properly.

[@Enigma758]

@@0033mer Gotcha, thanks. I'm really enjoying your videos!

[@MuhammadAhmad-ou6lt]

Hello Sir! I'm using 3-pin COP to signal it with the help of Arduino uno when test starts it freez the Arduino

[@altaccount3760]

So much learning I still don't understand how you get them to fire sequentially in relation to timing this would be handy if my engine had one cylinder or like you said for diagnostics but this stuff is so hard to understand at all so much going on I'm getting there though

[@sangcxl31]

Hi Meer. Thanks for the video. Im just wondering. Is there any basis why you select 10ohm on the output that goes to the cop trigger input? Im referring to the diagram u shows at 08:45? Im thinking of wiring this cop (that with internal trigger) to the a ecu that is equipped with coil driver. Thus im planning to make the igbt in the coil to always “on” and be controlled directly by the ecu that already have built in coil driver. Thank you in advance! Looking forward for your reply!

[@0033mer]

IGBTs have input capacitance so there is an initial current surge when turned on, charging the capacitance. If you are using a coil driver designed for the application it is not needed.

[@sangcxl31]

@@0033mer thank you for the explanation! Really appreciated. Originally the ecu output is driving the coil that without igniter. Its only have 2 wire, one supply and the other is ground that controlling trigger signal. Im planning to swap the coil using the one with internal igniter. So im thinking off, is it possible the internal igniter is always switch on, and solely control by the original ecu? So that the 12v pulse trigger signal could energized the primary coil (with internal trigger) thru its v supply amd ground only. Hope you could advise. Is it possible to force on the trigger input by providing constant 5vdc?

[@maxdavies5776]

Im wondering how much of a gap that coil can jump.

[@ishigamiyu1991]

IM GLAD YOU'RE OK!

[@bkennb]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I’m designing a transistor assist points ignition retrofit and would like to use the modern auto ignition IGBT for it. So I was thinking of using a basic PNP switching circuit to drive the IGBT with maybe LEDs to monitor the states. I didn’t know if there was anything to add to make it reliable. Maybe a large heatsink or maybe something to protect the PNP transistor? It seems like it would be very simple but with my lack of experience I’m probably missing something. Would the circuit on and the engine not running maybe overheating it?

[@0033mer]

To get your project up and running quickly you could use an ignition module from a GM HEI distributor. They have been around for a while and are proven. Check out this video showing the circuit description and where to get a module. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqOphWeait94fpI

[@bkennb]

@@0033mer Wouldn't that require an inverted signal from the points to the G terminal?

[@0033mer]

Yes .. you could use a NPN transistor ( 2N3904 or 2N2222 ) Connect a pull-up resistor from the base to Vcc. The points would be connected from base to ground. Connect a pull-up resistor from collector to Vcc and ground the emitter. The output from the collector is the inverted signal driving the G terminal.

[@bkennb]

@@0033mer ok thanks

[@bkennb]

You got me looking around and I found an easier way. Adding 1K a pullup resistor between the B and the G terminals no inverted signal is needed. I haven’t been able to post links to youtube comments before but if you google this it will get you there. how-to-trigger-hei-using-stock-points-dist.978979 Thanks again.

[@purelife9000]

"Okay, in this video..." is the only thing I understood. Gotta start somewhere, I guess.

[@eliotmansfield]

Have you got the Arduino code that you used for the testing?

[@lasersbee]

Excellent tutorial as usual... Thanks

[@neodiy]

This is superb video tutorial but under appreciated

[@0033mer]

Thanks a lot

[@rmt5820]

Do you have any video how to convert 2 plugs with 2 wires to this 4 plugs?

[@nissaarwz4645]

Hello Sir , the driver circuit you showed with the 2 transistors : can it be used for real life application? will it be reliable enough? I'm planning to built a COP system using an arduino.

[@0033mer]

I have used the two transistor driver many times with no failures, but for true reliability use the TC4424 driver IC

[@altaccount3760]

So do I need some kind of microcontroller that can take input from the cam trigger and very four 5v signal wires at different times to manage cop on a four cylinder or would you have four individual setups like you showed with staged timing I'm so confused LOL

[@0033mer]

A setup for one cylinder is easy. For multiple cylinders you would need a missing tooth trigger wheel mounted on the crankshaft with a pickup feeding a microcontroller. Early engines used a distributor driven off the camshaft.

[@altaccount3760]

@@0033mer so the signal from the 4 + 1 crank signal (I might be wrong there just trying to understand this all it might be 12+1) sends the signal to a micro controller and the micro controller will basically send out 4 5v signals at the relative times? Thank you so much for replying btw! I'm still learning again sorry if this makes no sense

[@altaccount3760]

@@0033mer or maybe a better question would be how does my cam sensor or crank sensor tell the microcontroller how to fire at different times and where is the microcontroller on the speeduino is that like part of the auduino thing

[@0033mer]

The missing tooth creates a "sync" in the data stream to #1 cylinder and the rest of the teeth sense the crank position for the rest of the cylinders. Check out the Speeduino site for documentation and more info.

[@Project-gr6zy]

I will be trying this out but for a ford 300 i6 running a carburetor, of course with some frequency modulation too

[@leonhiem]

Your videos are always interesting

[@0033mer]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@simplelyf4072]

Another question, is a coil basically a transformer? Transforming 12v to higher volt spark ?

[@0033mer]

Yes .. It is basically a step up transformer where the number of secondary windings are much greater than the primary.

[@delmarmabini]

Hello sir, What is the voltage value of the 220microfarad?

[@0033mer]

25 volt

[@mohamedericsson2254]

Thanks for the valuable info But I am get confused here about the calculations of RPM VS spark frequency Does it means that 555 driver circuit can’t run the car? Also if I designed the 555 circuit to generate pluses equivalent to 5000RPM Can it operate the cars or the frequency of 555 circuit must match the RPM?

[@0033mer]

Modern automotive ignition systems are controlled by the onboard computer (ECU). The throttle body lets in air detected by the mass air flow sensor (MAF) which determines the injector timing with O2 sensor feedback and the crankshaft/camshaft position sensor which all work together to generate the spark at the correct time. This video demonstrates how to test the coil pack. Cars with simple points/condenser distributors can be run by a 555 timer circuit. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJPYpqd7jdCMa8U

[@mohamedericsson2254]

@@0033mer thanks for your kind reply. Yes I am talking about old cars with distributor, if I designed the 555 circuit the spark frequency is fixed at a certain value independent from RPM For example if the RPM is 1000 frequency will the same at RPM equal 5000, is it healthy for the engine or I have something missed?

[@0033mer]

The substitute ignition project is for emergencies to get your car off the road. The 555 timer frequency is fixed so you are basically in limp mode with a limited speed range.

[@williamgibb5557]

There was time when you could use a model T coil, which was a vibrating circuit to replace a distributor on the engine. Roughly 1950s through 1970s. Engine ran poorly but would get you home.

[@Asyss_Complex]

At 5:25 is there a reason why there is no a flyback diode across the primary coil? I know that IGBTs can handle high voltages so that may be the case.

[@0033mer]

The schematic is a simple version of the circuitry for ease of understanding. A flyback diode would cause current to circulate in the primary causing the spark to be delayed. Some IGBTs use active clamping where the device goes into linear mode dissipating the energy stored in the inductance.

[@Asyss_Complex]

@@0033mer True, I have been studying about transients and I couldn't stop thinking about the noise generated by the coil and transmitted through the power supply. Thanks for sharing! - Cristian

[@jaystradinger4352]

I’m trying to build a points to smart coil driver using a CD4538BE chip. The coil is a D514 LS2 for and using the chip, I can’t seem to control in a stable manner. What am I doing wrong?

[@0033mer]

You need a MOSFET and a gate driver to energize the primary of a D514A coil. If you want to drive a coil with logic circuits, then check out a LS1 Gen3 coil which has a built in igniter. HT-020102

[@jaystradinger4352]

@@0033mer sorry, the D514 is a AC Delco p/n and has the igniter built in, like the haltech you’ve cited. The points trigger the 4538BE chip

[@jaystradinger4352]

And the 4538 (via 7805) drives the Igbt coil/D514

[@Ham549]

I got a four pin ignition coil and all I needed is three resistors and an optional cap to run it.

[@spudmckenzie4959]

Thank you. Massively helpful.

[@0033mer]

Glad it helped!

[@t.z.6920]

Hello, Thank you for sharing. I have a question for you, I want to use "33410-77E2" ignition coil from Suzuki XL-7, it has three terminals and I could not find the datasheet. Can you help me, I want to drive it with an esp32. Thank you.

[@0033mer]

On a three terminal unit it is usually: 1 Ground 2 Trigger 3 Power +12 volts Use a voltmeter and check pin1 and 3 for power, then 2 will be the trigger.

[@t.z.6920]

@@0033mer Thanks for your reply. The problem is I have only the ignition coil and I don't have access to a vehicle to verify Power and Ground. What is the position of wires 1-2-3 (left to right) or 3-2-1 (right to left)? Thanks.

[@0033mer]

Look closely at the connector near the bottom of the pins, sometimes they stamp the pin numbers. If not, search online for a service manual.

[@petereiso5415]

Does thee US have a different metric of time to most places? 8 sparks per second is 16 revolutions per second and multiply that by 60 to get rpm, 960.

[@0033mer]

Here we calculate precisely: 8.333... sparks per second is 16.66666667 revolutions per second times 60 to get RPM, 1000.

[@petereiso5415]

@@0033mer and I agree with you there but not with 8. When it's about 8, or 8 and a bit, I would agree then too. thanks for the reply

[@maxvolovich9407]

Do you have the shamanic lay out for this project. This and a fule injector tester using a 555 timer are 2 things i am looking to make.

[@0033mer]

The 555 timer circuit would be the same to drive a fuel injector with a VNLD5090-E as the driver IC.

[@mxfreaks]

Hi thanks for making the video! I was hoping you could help me solve something, I'm trying to advance an hour meter for a modern dirtbike because the battery died on the original and it isn't replaceable so I had to buy a new one and I'd like it to match from when it died. The hr meter has a single wire that wraps around the spark plug wire several times and I'm assuming it detects the pulse as it fires. I bought a NE555 square wave pulse generator board off Amazon. I powered the board with 12v dc and tried hooking up the single wire from the hr meter directly to the output of that board and also wrapped it around the output wire and a combination of both and nothing worked. I'm now thinking it's likely cause it doesn't have enough output power so it's not reading it. If I used an old ignition coil I had laying around and had the signal generator output go to the ignition first and then wrapped the the hr meter wire around the ignition wire would I be on the correct path or way off. I also tried wrapping around the spark plug wire of my modern car and it didn't work. In addition I tried a CFL light bulb and the ac wire of a power supply all with no luck. after watching your video I'm thinking I my retry the car spark plug and just isolate the trigger input wire and wrap it around that if you think that would work. Please help I cannot waste many more hours on this lol.

[@0033mer]

It should trigger off a car ignition wire. I would verify that your new meter actually works. Most cars have resistive carbon wires so you might try triggering it with another dirt-bike.

[@mxfreaks]

@@0033mer thanks my ignition coil driver only had 3 wires so I tried wrapping it around the 3rd wire with no luck and just tried the first now but haven't had a chance to test it yet. Is the carbon the coating over the wire or the stuff wrapped around the bundled wires that looks like electrical tape almost?

[@teling2134]

Could you use a logic level triggered mosfet to drive the the coil?

[@0033mer]

Yes .. if it outputs the proper 5 volt trigger waveform.

[@Jajatube1]

every educational, great teaching

[@sbalneav]

Did you do the code for the Nano in Forth? If so, would you mind sharing it? I'm still plugging away trying to learn Forth on Arduino!

[@0033mer]

Forth code was used to control the coil pack using Timer #1. To get started using Forth on the ATmega328p micro check out these videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmfVfnmZrM6eaa8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoqTYpJvmaaBmpo

[@aurthorthing7403]

Sweet. I gotta build that. I've been playing with some high voltage transformers from arc lighters.

[@0033mer]

Go for it!

[@berkinke]

i did extensive google searches but i couldn't find something like a datasheet for my coil. It's also from Volkswagen group. How do I find the correct connection for my socket? 06F 905 115F

[@0033mer]

Order a service manual for the make and model of your car. There are online sites where you can download.

[@MuhammadAhmad-ou6lt]

Hello Sir! I'm making same type of project but I face a little bit problem when coils run on it Cause Arduino uno to stop and freezing also how can I figure it out

[@0033mer]

The COP has two ground terminals for isolation purposes. Connect the Uno to the signal ground and the battery supply to the power ground.

[@MuhammadAhmad-ou6lt]

@@0033mer Thanks Sir ! 😍 The Arduino Freezing problem is solved

[@AT_Eng]

how can we variable the frequency for RPM while sticking to the constant dwell time of 4ms? plz guide

[@0033mer]

Vary the 330k ohms resistor which controls the frequency.

[@BradJenksNorCalQuality]

@@0033mer So a potentiometer could be used to change the resistance, changing the frequency?

[@0033mer]

Yes, you can use a pot.

[@michaelr6205]

Is there any way you could share some wiring diagrams? This is very interesting to me.

[@0033mer]

Schematics and instructions start at 6:02

[@steventempler9319]

Can you tell me the Ohms on most coil pack coils

[@0033mer]

Coil resistance varies with each car make and model. A typical coil resistance is about 1.5 Ohms for primary and 8000 Ohms for the secondary. COP (packs) contain electronics so the primary coil is not accessible. Check service manual for details.

[@TheDrunkenMug]

Verry good and clear video, thanks allot !!

[@0033mer]

You are welcome!

[@simplelyf4072]

Really great video. I didn’t realize you could power a spark plug using 12 or 5 volts. Since you used 5v, does that mean the spark is also lower voltage than if you used 12v ?

[@0033mer]

The coil pack is powered by 12 volts (pin 1 on the connector) . The trigger signal is 5 volts.

[@luizcarlosf2]

Can you do another one for the fuel injector ?

[@0033mer]

The 555 timer circuit would be the same to drive a fuel injector with a VNLD5090-E as the driver IC.

[@luizcarlosf2]

@@0033mer Thanks ! Wanted to do something with my generator for quite a while. Found a Lambda part on Elecktor. Keep up the good work!

[@t1d100]

One of my early forays into electronics was with a group that was developing CDI ignitions for RC airplanes. Basically, they were hot-rodding weed-eater motors to fly big planes. They were doing amazing things with the code... Developing timing advance curves that would change the advance based on the RPM. One guy branched off into motor scooter ignitions and made a business out of it, for awhile. The Chinese circuits came on the market and killed the DIY effort and the guy's business, as I recall. Funny, I wasn't interested in flying model planes, at all. I participated purely for the electronics.

[@rodriguezfranco3839]

Do you still have some info? I am trying to design a programable CDI , I found a few schematics and already builded base prototype but any info would be much aprecciatted

[@t1d100]

@@rodriguezfranco3839This was many, many years ago and I just don't remember much about it. I checked my computer files and I do not have anything that would be helpful. I do not even remember the name of the forum, or the thread. I think it may have been the RC Groups Forum. They seem to have lots of threads on the subject. Maybe try going to that forum and search CDI. HTH

[@thaermajeed4954]

Hi .. many thanks for this great explaining. please, can you share the IGBT No. ?

[@0033mer]

The FGD3040G2 is used in many ignition applications. www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/fgi3040g2_f085-d.pdf

[@SCSautomotive.1988]

Really great helpful video.thanks for you 💖

[@0033mer]

Glad it was helpful!

[@spudnickuk]

very helpful video, Q. i would like to run a gas/LPG engine via a solenoid . So i would like to have the solenoid let the gas in then it gets ignited can anyone give such information on how to use an arduino to do so.

[@0033mer]

You can use a ULN2803 to drive the solenoid. It contains 8 drivers which can switch 500 mA each. They can be paralleled for more current drive. Tie pin10 to Vcc for transient control. Check out this video where it is being used. kzbin.info/www/bejne/poexaGebgqmFjbc

[@spudnickuk]

@@0033mer Thank you for very much for your information as a complete novice with circuits im not sure how one can setup and could do with an experts help . What i would like to do is run a 12v ignition coil and a 12v solenoid that lets gas into a chamber and then ignited by the spark plug via a trigger and also have a potentiometer to control the cycle rate I have made a working type with Arduino using 2 x 12v mosfets that are controlled from the Arduino to control the solenoid and a Ignition coil. but using 1x 12v battery to operate the Coil& solenoid via the mosfet and a separate 3.7v to run the Arduino But if i try and run the Arduino using a buck converter from the same 12v battery instead of it independent 3.7v battery to operate the Arduino i get a active loop with out me pressing the trigger So im getting an earth loop and no I have no idea how to sort out I am willing to pay for such help :)

[@0033mer]

You should have someone local look at your setup. It's hard to troubleshoot via emails. I would first try an "isolated" buck converter. Check out Murata, they have a line of dc to dc isolated buck converters.

[@RixtronixLAB]

Nice video, thanks for sharing it :)

[@0033mer]

Thanks for the visit

[@ratulloch1]

Cool video - Heads up 1hz = 60RPM so 60 * 8hz = 480 RPM

[@0033mer]

60 * 8.33333333 = 500 RPM It's a repeating decimal.

[@TheRainHarvester]

Boy the distributor could never get out of sync. Butt imagine the knock that would happen if an electronic controller sparked at the wrong time for the current rpm!!

[@cndbrn7975]

you're awesome, thanks

[@projetonovagenesisnordeste8181]

Tô pensado no choque q vc vai levar a grafite transmite energia tiko

[@0033mer]

The coil pack was not powered.

[@projetonovagenesisnordeste8181]

@@0033mer como queira

[@yeferson3159]

Hi, I don't speak or write English very well, I'm using a translator :). I really liked your video, I found it interesting, did you make the code? If so, could you share it? :)

[@jayjayjayjay1703]

Good explain

[@nolegotube]

Thanks so much... 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@0033mer]

You're welcome!

[@herrstattlich]

Hi Mr. Ken, thank you for this informative video. This is my first time watching your sharing and just had to clicked that subscribe like and bell button right after finished watching. Btw, would you kindly share the sketch that you uploaded into the nano? I'd really appreciate it.

[@0033mer]

Thanks for the feedback. I do not use the Arduino IDE so there is no sketch. I write my code using the FORTH programming language which is interactive. Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoqTYpJvmaaBmpo

[@herrstattlich]

@@0033mer interactive programming sounds very interesting. But anyways, what pin 9 does in this setup here is just generating pulse which can be interactively controlled by keyboard is it?

[@0033mer]

Yes ... check out other videos for more examples.

[@Edmorbus]

Thanks for sharing

[@0033mer]

Thanks for watching!

[@HarpreetSingh-yo9ir]

Great explaination. I have made 400 V CDI circuit. All is need is the ignition advance retard Program. It would be appericiated if you can guide me a lil about this