Colle Exercises for Violin with a Pencil

[@onsLinneke]

Thanks for posting this! It feels like I have to learn how to play all over again, but in the end I will be much better, I can already feel that.

[@snort455]

I found your video because my teacher told me I needed to work on bow hand. She recommended similar exercises, but this video goes even further. You are a fantastic teacher! Thank you.

[@DaniTorresOfficial]

Finally a clear explanation of where my pinky should go, which I am struggling much with! Thank you!

[@kamranmohaghegh2884]

Excellent explanation 👌. You have extracted the fundamental movements from the complex bow hold and demonstrated it with the simplest tool "a pencil". What a great job 👏👏👏

[@banjiddle]

Watching your videos again with a pencil. I’m really enjoy learning from you! Thank you!

[@gryffynda1]

I seem to notice an improvement in my bow hand/arm just from watching your video! Thanks!

[@RedDesertViolin]

gryffynda1 It's like magic! Keep up the good work!

[@alikhan6259]

You explained in such great detail. I'm confident that from now on I will be bowing with more control. You are a great teacher!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Thanks, Ali. Best of luck to you!

[@teresarockdriguez623]

I love how you explained the way the finger should be at the Frog and Tip, it just helped alot!!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Great! Thanks for that feedback!

[@danielebiancullo6189]

fantastic !!! you are the greatest violin teacher I ever seen !

[@theantipro]

Thank you so much for this informative and helpful video. I have made my self crazy trying to get the proper technique for the loose wrist effect. Best wishes from a grateful fiddle player.

[@wunderjahr]

very helpful. you are a great teacher indeed.

[@RedDesertViolin]

They say the best teachers are the ones who struggled themself.....and I can say I struggled as a student. Thanks for your kind words!

[@abbasdaoosh1813]

wonderful teacher

[@RedDesertViolin]

Thank you! 😃

[@RedDesertViolin]

Good! I'm so glad it helped! You are very welcome!

[@aravindrajasekharan]

This Video Helped me a lot.. Simply Amazing.. Thanks a lot ..

[@GokanTube]

Muchas gracias, tenía muchas dudas respecto a esto. He estado intentando imitar la tecnica de Maxim Vengerov pero era vastante difícil. Me has quitado muchas dudas. Gracias.

[@ValyTraveler]

this has helped me out a lot...Thank you...

[@RedDesertViolin]

Glad it helped, Valyncia. Thanks for watching, and keep up the good work!

[@suhaskatdare1187]

you explained very nicely thank you Mam 🙏🏿

[@RedDesertViolin]

Thank you!

[@RedDesertViolin]

@Danofnj Good idea for a video. I have something like that which I will upload. It explains the difference between our bow hand in an up bow, and our bow hand in a down bow......but it doesn't do the Colle' over and over. I think you have nailed it though: The change from Up Bow to Down Bow is the CLINCHER!

[@ohohenio]

Red Desert Violin . Love your video, are these “Colle,” exercises applicable to “Old Russian hold?”

[@delaneysavidge5126]

Your videos are very helpful, thank you very much for making them!

[@RedDesertViolin]

I appreciate that, D.S. Thank you for posting!

[@Enahse]

That tutorial was really helpful Laura, thanks. The point you made about where to place the tip of the pinky on the pencil may have solved my pinky slipping.. very frustrating when it 'used' to happen.

[@loralynstaples5483]

It set me free when I learned that tip! (In my master's studies!)

[@eulerdoq1]

gosto muito do seu jeito de ensinar, parabéns.

[@MeredithElaineVillanuevaMEV]

Thanks you so much. I’ve seen so many videos and you explain it so well! Ahhh I’m so happy

[@RedDesertViolin]

Great! Colle' is no great mystery. The problem is that we use the word for a bow articulation, but we also use it to describe loose, flexible fingers. It is BOTH.

[@RedDesertViolin]

@kd029 Thank you SO MUCH for letting me know about that. Yes, I posted those videos, and D'Addario is so friendly and welcoming, they wanted more videos.....I just don't have time to post in 2 places. I really need to send them some more, just to stay on their good side! Thanks again ---Lora

[@r324104]

Thank you very much for uploading this. I am a beginner. It's really very helpful to me. Thank you. OX

[@Chronically_JBoo]

Thanks for sharing such awesome videos.

[@anatoliaanatolia7102]

The exercise you showed worked very well. Thx a lot 👏👏 Laura, you are very likeable 🙂

[@RedDesertViolin]

I'm so glad! (and you are so kind!)

[@chrisgilman3472]

This is exactly what I need sort my dodgy bowing out thanks! (and although you said this wasn't really for your bow hold, the pinky on the inside is the one detail the videos I've been watching on bow hold are missing out)

[@RedDesertViolin]

Glad it helped, Chris! Yeah....I didn't learn about the pinky on the inside until I was in my grad program! Yikes! But it sure has helped my balance! Thanks for watching

[@sandeepuniyal6164]

Thank you so much 🙏🎹

[@RedDesertViolin]

Cool! Glad it helped!

[@jaxx8431]

As a beginner I noticed that my fingers ridged. Following your exercises, I am noticing an improvement in my left-hand's dexterity. Thanks.

[@RedDesertViolin]

The thumb straightens out to some degree as you go toward the tip, but it only goes from being round to being elongated-elliptical.

[@Danofnj]

I like the Jelly Fish!! Could you make another video with closeup of the Colle over and over again with narrative. i.e.: in slow motion, especially the transition from up to down bow? Love ya video's

[@clak.]

Putting the pinky on the inner octagonal really helps me a lot

[@RedDesertFiddle]

Good! I'm glad it helped. It was a major breakthrough for me.

[@samaralajmi318]

Helped me alot!!! Thank YOUU!!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Great! Glad it helped!

[@moranalilith]

This is fascinating. The only exercise I remember doing with my bow was windshield wipers.

[@RedDesertViolin]

Yes, the pencil exercise can transform your bow hand! Good luck!

[@collectorghost]

Wow..! Thank you so much. This is what i need :D

[@RedDesertViolin]

+Min kyoung Kim Great! Glad I could help!

[@banjiddle]

Excellent lesson, and Thank you Lora for demonstrating the bow hold, and colles. I don’t know what colles is, other than in ortho we have colles wrist fractures we see a lot of during falls, so it must be wrist exercise. I like the pencil practice, and jellyfish straight fingers up with claw down. I’ve seen violinist lift their first finger off while bowing down? Thank you!

[@RedDesertViolin]

That is really interesting that "colles" is a medical term involving the wrist. Because the colle' stroke could be described as using a flexible wrist to facilitate a smooth bow change. But that is not quite accurate.....colle' is SPECIFICALLY flexible FINGERS.....and the wrist just comes along for the ride. And colle' is best in small doses. YOu can get bow disruptions from using too much colle', or what my teacher used to call "being more Catholic than the Pope". :-P

[@RedDesertViolin]

@r324104 I'm glad it helped! If you are a beginner, you don't need to worry too much about colle' yet. The biggest priorities for a beginner (before colle') are: Learning to play with a straight bow, staying on a good sounding point, choosing what sounding point you want, bow hold, posture, relaxation, creating beautiful tone, and playing in tune. That's a TON of stuff! Good luck! --Lora

[@saadkhaled7478]

The problem is once you gathered that TON of skills and started on your Cole technique, you feel like your starting from scratch. The whole TON... is all gone 😂😂

[@MsMusk100]

thanks

[@RedDesertViolin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@notme7310]

I love you~ You remind me of my auntie :) _If only I could spam the like button..._

[@RedDesertViolin]

Well, you must have ONE COOL AUNTIE! :-)

[@smellslikepez]

Thank you so much. I have really been struggling to develop a good colle technique. This gives me a great way to work on it even when I don't have time to pick up my violin.

[@RedDesertViolin]

Fantastic. Any time we can capitalize on "dead time" like commuting, waiting in lines, or lunch breaks, it's like adding extra hours to our day! Keep up the good work!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Tr0jan1337--Your thumb will naturally straighten slightly, along with your fingers, on the UPBOW, but I would hesitate to say it should be absolutely straight. You should try to keep it bent, but allow it to elongate on the upbow, only as much as necessary to get that good "jellyfish" or "Colle'" motion. Thanks for the question! --Lora

[@PianoSightReading]

Great exercises! I'm a violin teacher and I've always struggled with teaching this to my students. When would you say is a good time to teach this though? And would you teach a beginner basic wrist/colle movement or leave it 'till later? Some people seem to get the right movement right away while others don't...

[@thierrycourteille3934]

Many thanks, very kind explanation... Thierry, from France Where is red desert ?

[@RedDesertViolin]

Thanks, Thierry! The Red Desert I am referring to is Sedona, Arizona, near my home. It's famous for its red rock formations.

[@RedDesertViolin]

@GokanTube No hay de qué. Me alegra que lo ayudó a usted!

[@anthonyparke5561]

Thanks Laura. Never having had a teacher I always read the pinky should NEVER be straight. However I found it awkward to keep it curved when bow arm was extended. So clearly from your example it is ok and natural for pinky to be straight sometimes. And I guess this doesn't cause tension. Straight pinky is good at times then?

[@RedDesertViolin]

Yes, Anthony, it is fine to let the pinky go straight when you approach the tip of the bow. For short people like me, it is necessary. Some REALLY tall people don't need to do it....so only do it if it is necessary. (some people even take the pinky off completely at the tip, but make sure to put it back as soon as physically possible) Good luck!

[@stagedoro9560]

Very good!! excellent explanation. But I wonder if Bach, Mozart or Paganini cared about so much detail... they just played.

[@RedDesertViolin]

Well, plenty of treatises were written back in their day as well. I'm sure they did care about detail....or the treatises wouldn't have been written. But some people are very natural and perhaps they don't need to bother with detail. But we don't really know!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Obrigado! Está doce!

[@suhaskatdare1187]

Mam make a vdo for good tone production 🙏🏿

[@RedDesertViolin]

It's on the top of my list! Stay tuned! (no pun intended)

[@Tr0jan1337]

Hi, Lora! When applying the jelly fish technique into bow should my right thumb be flat at up bow's and bended at down bow's? Btw thank you so much for doing such a great work!

[@RedDesertViolin]

Hey there! YES....once you practice this colle' technique, it will come so naturally, you will not need to concentrate on it, just like riding a bike! When your teacher says things like "You need to work on your bowing"...ask for SPECIFICS! Your teacher should tell you HOW to work on your bowing! (or you can check here with me!) Finally: I think practicing in a mirror is one of the MOST helpful things you can do. Make sure to stand so you can clearly see if your bow is straight! Good Luck!

[@RedDesertViolin]

@snort455 Thanks, Snort455! If your teacher is suggesting this sort of thing, she is probably doing a good job! Stick with her! (and thanks for your compliment) --Lora

[@malihedaghlavi3225]

I love you You helped me alot♥️

[@RedDesertViolin]

@206ggg Good question! Why do we bother with all this fancy colle' mumbo jumbo? Basically, a good colle' will give you EXCELLENT control at the frog, it is the source of sautille', and to some extent also to spiccato. It gives you good legato strokes, and smooth bow changes. Colle' is THE SOURCE of most advanced bow techniques. However, many beginners OVER-USE it. Too much colle' can backfire. Think of it like salting a dish. Only use as much as is needed, and no more!

[@SunilAruldas]

A very useful video. Just by the way, pencils ✏️ have a hexagonal [6 sided]cross section, not octagonal [8 sided] (at least the ones I've seen 🤔)

[@RedDesertViolin]

AURGH! You are correct! I mis-spoke. I was thinking of a STOP SIGN....which is octagonal. Thanks for the note!

[@enenengin]

■ THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO BUT HOW I WILL VIBRATION LEFT HANS AND FINGERS ?????? WHERE IS THAT VIDEO. ADD VIDEO PLEASE

[@RedDesertViolin]

I could have SWORN I said it had to be a hexagonal/octagonal pencil in the video! I'll add an annotation to make sure people know that. Thanks!

[@liliana-tu5oo]

😊

[@RedDesertViolin]

@206ggg If your teacher is telling you to study it, your teacher needs to tell you HOW. Ask for specific exercises. I'm sure your teacher has lots of exercises in mind.....maybe he/she assumed you already knew them! And describe the creepy sound......do you mean CREAKING or CRUNCHING? If yes, that is because your PINKY isn't doing his job at the frog! Let me know how you're doing! Colle' is exciting when you get it!

[@jkitley2]

Does the thumb ever straighten out? Or should it always remain curved?

[@anissarumiati6013]

Hello Red Desert Violin, very nice tutorial! im still a noob, just started learning and i have a question: is colle bowing required in all bowing situation? i mean, since it produces better sound, is it better to do colle bowing in all possible situation? Thanks in advance

[@RedDesertViolin]

+Rumi R Hi Rumi, Good question. Yes, colle' is "omni-present" in advanced players. Sometimes it is very pronounced, and sometimes it is impossible to detect, but the motion is always happening. It is most obvious in legato slow passages, or maybe at the frog during a string crossing.....but it is always happening, like the current in a river.

[@anissarumiati6013]

Thank you for your fast response. Also all of your videos are very very helpful to me. I hope you have a very nice day!

[@YuriBad10]

❤❤❤❤

[@RedDesertViolin]

Hope it helps!

[@RedDesertViolin]

LOL! Well, basically, I am teaching coordination exercises that can be done conveniently without your instrument in hand. The coordination will benefit you when you try to learn "colle" on your violin. HOWEVER: colle is an advanced technique, and if you are a beginner, you really do not need to focus on it yet. It can do more harm than good to try to do colle' prematurely.

[@atifyilmaz]

Hi laura can you tell me when we use jellyfish exercise?

[@RedDesertViolin]

The "jellyfish" develops flexible wrist and reciprocating finger motion which assists us with smooth bow changes at the frog, it is also a prep exercise for learning the colle' motion.

[@TheGospelDefense]

Hi Lora, thank you so much for this wonderful help, but I still have a problem with colle, when I do down bow, as my fingers change its position my bow kind of jumps a little, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, do you have any idea what could be causing it to jump? Thx once again.

[@RedDesertViolin]

YES! You are "flipping" your colle'......try doing it in super slow motion....that is how it must be on the bow. In addition to making it SLOWER, you are doing too much colle'.....we only need the tiniest amount for a smooth bow change...that is why you can hardly see the pros doing it.....because they are doing it in such a small, slow, and smooth way.

[@TheGospelDefense]

Red Desert Violin Thank you so much, I'm gonna practice it as you said, and see if I progress a little bit more. :)

[@lilbago3845]

may pinky finger is to short what can i do about it when im doing colle may pinky down form the bow??

[@RedDesertViolin]

Hi Kosay I think it will be ok for your short pinky to come OFF the bow temporarily, until you are able to put it back on the bow, if that makes sense. My pinky has to come off the bow at the VERY TIP, because my arms are too short....its not big deal. We all must adapt for our own body type!

[@lilbago3845]

Red Desert Violin thank you for replying to me i think it will be great to try thank you again ...

[@anntangpanit2684]

What if my thumb keeps curving the wrong direction as I try this?

[@RedDesertViolin]

The latest wisdom I read about the thumb on our right hand is to "let it yield".....so, try to focus on your finger motion the most. Try to alllow thumb to "yield" or move in the way most natural to your thumb. The main "wrong" thing you need to avoid is the thumb totally collapsing into a backwards, locked bend.

[@Jubjoys]

my pinky keeps falling off from the bow every time I do colle . am I using to much force to do?

[@RedDesertViolin]

+Jub Joy You might be using too much force, or trying to do TOO MUCH colle'. But, if you are pretty sure tha'ts not the problem,, there's a little trick you need to use. Did I explain in the video about placing the pinky on the INNER OCTAGONAL of the bow? Don't put it on TOP....because he will fall off constantly. Instead, put him on the inner octagonal, and then, as you approach the frog, you can tilt your bow slightly toward the scroll......and your pinky sits on top now, because the inner octagonal is now on top. It gives pinky great security, and gives you great control at the frog. Hope this helps!

[@RelaxCreatorMary]

well maybe the fact that my pinky is way shorter than my other fingers gives me a hard time :/ will i ever be able to do colle?

[@RedDesertViolin]

If you have a super short pinky, it adds a little more challenge for you, certainly. But I have a friend whose pinky is ridiculously short. (it comes to her ring finger's middle joint!!!) ...and she plays professionally. You just have to adapt in little ways, for instance, your pinky will be more straight than other people's because it is reaching more. Just learn to adapt, and DO NOT let it be an excuse.....because my friend is proof that it does not have to hold you back.

[@RelaxCreatorMary]

Thanks,you are right,great response :)

[@joumanarashad2895]

I know this is completely unrelated to the video, but how do I know when to shift on a music sheet?

[@joumanarashad2895]

Shift positions*

[@RedDesertViolin]

+Joumana Rashad Hi Joumana, that is a GREAT question! Well, if there are fingerings, and the fingerings do not fit for 1st position, then that implies that you should shift to the designated finger. But you probably are asking how to choose fingerings, and why do we shift? That is a much harder question. But a couple guidelines will help you: there are 3 primary reasons to shift: 1) to avoid a clumsy or excessive string crossing. Often it is easier to shift than to do repeating string crossings, or maybe you would have to cross strings for just one note.....totally inefficent.....so it's easier to shift so you don't have to cross strings for one note. 2) Similar to 1, sometimes we shift to keep a passage on ONE STRING, so that a passage has ONE VOICE, one timbre, and you don't have a single note jumping out from crossing to another string, keeps it smoother, etc. 3) We can shift for expressive reasons, like, if you have the same note twice, maybe you want to shift to a new finger the second time you repeat the note, and make a little slide. Or maybe you want to do an expressive slide instead of crossing strings. Oh, there is a 4th reason: obviously, we have to shift if we go high on the E string.....so that's the 4th.

[@joumanarashad2895]

+Red Desert Violin Ok, thanks so much! That helped a lot!

[@RedDesertViolin]

I don't teach my beginners Colle' until Suzuki Book 2...and even then, I "sneak" the exercises in without telling them what they are. Once they have the motion mastered (jelly fish and pencil exercises), then I reveal to them the purpose....it's so fun...once they see how it translates to the BOW.....they are like, "Ahhhh! Cool!" The most common mistake people make with colle is using TOO DARN MUCH of it! I tell my kids it's a Class 1 felony to use it, so they can't get caught....parents smile.

[@FroutoQueen]

do you mean hexagonal pencil? Im pretty sure octagonal ones dont exist

[@RedDesertViolin]

OMG, I had to go to a pencil, and I counted the planes....that is bizarre. I would have bet $100 that it had 8 sides....good thing we didn't place any bets. You are correct. HEXAGONAL!!!

[@RedDesertViolin]

You know what caused me to make that assumption: the frogs on violin bows are OCTAGONAL....(I just counted to make sure);-)

[@FroutoQueen]

@@RedDesertViolin ah I see, yeah that's probably why 😂😊

[@fuhrer07]

Hi I've been trying to do this colle movement and I haven't been able to do it right, I just started playing the violin like 3 months ago, 2 moths taking private lessons, 1 month following the suzuki method right now I'm at minuet 2 but everytime I try to do the colle I kinda lose the grip of the bow, meaning my pinky finger slips in front of the bow :/ is this because I'm not placing it on the inside side of the bow? when I try to do the exercises I think I make them right with the pencil but as soon as I try it with the bow I can't do it :(

[@RedDesertFiddle]

Hi Oscar! You sound like a good student! In my opinion, it is still a little early for you to do colle'. I would focus more on relaxing the bow hand PERFECTLY, learning to use a flexible, soft wrist, and learning about the weight transfer from the INDEX to the PINKY. Index has to pronate at the tip, and pinky gets a free ride. But at the FROG, the pinky is balancing all the weight, and index is just helping with control. And all the way from TIP to FROG, the weight shifts from index to middle, to ring, to pinky, and then the reverse from Frog to Tip. Now, if you are determined to work on colle', first thing I would say is: DO LESS. Pretend like colle' is ILLEGAL and you don't want to get caught using it! Most beginners do way too much. All you need is just the slightest motion in the fingers.....if everything else is relaxed and in place, it should be fine. Often, the pinky is not secure, especially at the frog. Like you said, putting it on the inside edge can help a ton. GOod luck!

[@fuhrer07]

Hi again, thanks for the tips I will follow your advice and concentrate in getting a better bowing technique for now, I just being trying the colle technique because I like to try to learn new things but yeah maybe it's too early for me, I will work harder on my intonation as well, btw I didn't mention it before but I'm 30 years old so it's kinda tricky to teach my fingers new movements they're not used too lol but what I lack in youth I have it in determination I think I practice really hard at least I try to do it 2 hrs daily and I hope some day I can play the violin good enough to be able to play the songs that I have always wanted to play, your videos have been of great help for me to advance in my suzuki lessons although I don't know if I'm moving too fast after just being practicing suzuki from 1 month ago and almost finishing the first book, what do you think?

[@RedDesertFiddle]

Oscar Molina I'm a fan of biting off more than you can chew......sounds like your're doing a great job. Keep it up:)