College of Spirits Bard: Optimization and Analysis for D&D

[@BOOXMOWO]

First character I'm going to roll up is a Halfling Spirit Bard with a Criminal background. Glad that 5e is finally letting me play a small medium at large.

[@billcasey9672]

Bravo! Great set up, heavy impact. Also, vile, vile, vile ,vile, and vile.

[@accidentalhero3051]

Well done sir!

[@bnerd__]

i have been playing this exact characte for a year and I am so angry I didn't think of this first. bravo

[@fyng.1582]

A friend pointed this out to me - the Tale of the Renowned Duelist isn't Inflict wounds, because it actually does have a range of 30 feet still. Even though you make a melee spell attack, it doesn't change the targeting rules (30 feet) of Tales from Beyond. It's much the same way Thorn Whip makes melee spell attacks at a range of 30 feet. It doesn't make it GREAT, but it makes it mildly better at least. Especially at low levels when its definitely better than your cantrips.

[@abacusite]

So here's a point of interest about the focus: You can get focuses which add +1 to saving throws or attack rolls. These affect spells even without material components. You can very easily justify the d6 affecting spells without material components as the other focuses with +1 effects do the same.

[@spriggangt]

Precisely my thought. I honestly feel like this was the intent. I am not gonna go RAW here because it's more than a little ridiculous. RAI is the way to go with this. Also hard disagree on this being College of Whispers adjacent. RAW, I'd still give this a B. RAI I'd say a pretty easy A. The Tales ability is incredibly strong and I think the college of spirits bard that is being played in my campaign has "wasted" a bardic inspiration dice one time where a situation never came up where he needed to use the Tales feature he rolled. That is only because the session was short and they didn't get into any fights so the temp HP and AC never came up. Every single tales ability is EASILY worth a bardic inspiration dice.

[@LittleBananaJoe]

I really don’t understand this point at all. So healing word doesn’t have material component if I cast it normally. But if I use the focus to cast it, I get a bonus. I don’t understand why this wording should ever mean that we can ONLY use spells with this feature that initially require a component. I’m not a lawyer and English isn’t my first language. But to me it seems like an add on, not a limiting factor

[@JACKSTAY]

@@LittleBananaJoeI read somewhere it was a copy paste from artificer that didn’t take into account that artificer states you cast all spells through your tools

[@SnarkyRogue]

I think my favorite concept here is the table with physically impossible to obtain results until higher levels when your BI die increases in size. Just a neat little way to scale a feature.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I agree it's a cool idea. They probably should have had the highest numbered effects be the best ones though, I'm not sure they are.

[@SnarkyRogue]

@@TreantmonksTemple Yeah I was thinking that too. There's an odd or rather non existent power scale there it seems. Though, part of me is kind of glad as I rarely get to play in games where the d12 options would be accessible anyway so I'm kind of relieved in a way, that I'm not missing out on much.

[@benjaminhill3378]

I like giving Guidance range because that puts the cantrip more in line with how I WANT to play it (as opposed to how it's written). Admittedly it's a difference of "shouting 'Guidance' from across the room" versus "physical walking over there and tapping my friend on the shoulder REALLY OBVIOUSLY" but that's enough of a quality of life improvement that I'm all for it.

[@samueldrunkard6129]

you can use animate dead or tiny servant to get as many creatures as you need for spirit sessions

[@TheDylls]

I like the idea of opening up the seance spells to any school, but every time another character takes place in the seance for a spell of a school that they haven't previously been a part of a seance for, they take 1 psychic damage for each lvl of the spell

[@kbeazy_3050]

I love spiritual session for the revivial aspects. Have gentle repose as a spell known, then require a ritual to cast revivify or raise dead

[@antoniodominguezgarcia1956]

Revivify would not work if you cast gentle repose as a ritual because it would take 10 min and revivify only works for a minute after the death. Casting gentle repose with a spell slot or using raise dead would work but it is not as good

[@snazzyfeathers]

@@antoniodominguezgarcia1956 It's homebrewed dude....

[@studynot757]

@@antoniodominguezgarcia1956 just need to get an order of the scribe Wizard in there to cast Gentle Repose as a ritual but using their class feature to do it in 1 action :D. THEN you get the bard to revivify

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

But gentle repose is not a bard spell :(

[@kbeazy_3050]

@@Ricardo-zo1ti bards can learn any spell as a bard spell

[@goadfang]

Regarding the ranged Guidance: I think that's actually very powerful depending on your DM. I am strict about Guidance. If someone is going into a conversation with an NPC and the cleric, clear across the room, says "I cast Guidance on him" then I say "wait, so you're telling me you're dropping what you're doing and running across the room to touch and pray over the guy about to have this critical conversation with this NPC? And you don't expect that to just maybe affect this NPCs reaction to this conversation?" If that rushed prayer is enough to sour the NPC's impression of the speaker/group then there goes the advantage of Guidance. That dynamic changes a lot of the cleric can do that from 60 ft away. And they can just sit there and spam that Guidance again and again from that range, praying and concentrating on the recipient. That's HUGE.

[@joseluizps95]

Been refreshing your page all morning waiting for this

[@gilgamesh1973]

I disagree that spirit session is a limited weakened version of magical secrets. In fact, it is a fairly versatile ability. Magical secrets locks you into just one spell. Just at level 6, this open you to 1. Summon undead 2. Vampiric touch (great if you have a familiar) 3. Life transference 4. Revivify These necromancy spells are great to hold onto as backup spells, but if the need arises then switch those out for the divination spells when the RP or information gathering is more important.

[@johnmichaelarnaud]

Life Transference becomes AMAZING if you're in a party with a Twilight cleric. They become this THP engine that powers your Life Transference with MINIMAL detriment to yourself. For more fun at higher levels, take Speak with Animals (which you normally wouldn't want to spend a spell known on) and Mass Suggest your way to a horde of powerful beasts following you around and defending you--potentially for weeks! Recently did that in Chult in the early stages of Tomb of Annihilation, and let me tell you: a thundering host of T-rexes, Allosauruses, Velociraptors, etc. was quite the sight to behold.

[@mixplit74]

I can also see the 60' Guidance being used in combat in certain scenarios. Specifically for Athletics and Acrobatics checked either for Grappling, escaping Grapples or bypassing difficult terrain or dangerous map features. These rolls come up semi-often in some campaigns, though of course you have to weigh the benefits against the other things you could be doing with your Bard in that combat. But if your other best option was chucking a Vicious Mockery maybe helping the Barbarian keep his grapple up is better.

[@perz343srry]

If you consider cantrips 0 level spells you could grab chill touch/toll the dead with Spirit Session to make use of Spiritual Focus's damage bonus. Not saying it's great, just that it's an option if cantrip = 0 level spell and you play as intended with the Focus

[@binolombardi]

I’m not sure that works since the the feature states the bard counts as a person fir the ritual. This means the bard, who needs to be the person present to perform and benefit the ritual anyways, makes the minimum number of allies 1 since the bard itself counts as an ally.

[@tyleremery7088]

Neither chill touch nor toll the dead have a material component (they are both V/S only), so they can't be cast through the spiritual focus and thus can't benefit from the bonus damage.

[@JelloBrand]

@@tyleremery7088 No one is going to play it like that though, so I think this is totally valid. Despite obvious RAW issues

[@MEIZimm]

@@tyleremery7088 if your DM rules that way, find a different table lol. You're guaranteed to not have any fun with that kind of insane rule nitpicking.

[@AdamZollo]

Wizards of Coast forget their own rules on using a focus? Seems so to me and I'm not at all surprised.

[@johngleeman8347]

A huge goof. Thankfully no one is going to run Spiritual Focus RAW. XD

[@mattbriddell9246]

I think 95% of players and DMs are either not going to know this rule to begin with or will just dismiss it as too bothersome to implement.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Where do the rules say that _only_ spells with a material focus can be cast through a focus? The (barely existent) rules for foci specify that using one eliminates the need for a material component that isn't consumed and doesn't have a value specified in the spell description. I can't find any rule, one way or the other, whether a spell without a material component could be cast through the focus.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

​@@RTukka The artifcer feature looks to me like a roundabout way of saying all artificer spells have tools as a material component, in addition to any material component in the spell description. This is what makes the tools required to cast the spell - without it the tools, like any other focus, would be an optional. Since tools are also a focus other material components could then be ignored unless they are consumed or have a value specified.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

​@@RTukka Also, that's a RAI, not RAW, argument and a more convoluted one than that Spiritual Focus seems to intend that it can be used regardless of material components.

[@geddylee632]

So I watched this a few months ago before my new campaign, this is the one of best bard subclasses for a mega dungeon. If your party is taking 3-5 short rests (we started at level 5) with a ton of small encounters these stories are really good for conserving spell slots. This is a niche case just like whispers is very strong in a roleplay heavy campaign.

[@tyleremery7088]

It's worth noting that the invisibility from tale of the phantom only ends early if the target hits with an attack. If the attack misses, it doesn't end. If the target casts a spell, forces a saving throw, or deals damage in some way without an attack roll, it doesn't end.

[@mattgerlach744]

In my current campaign, my party was going through a dungeon and we had to jump over a pit one at a time, and in order to apply guidance to each of those ability checks my cleric had to be the last man to go. I would have loved to be able to cast guidance from a distance.

[@johnmichaelarnaud]

Another overlooked benefit of Tale of the Clever Animal is that, unlike Bardic Inspiration for most bards, you can choose yourself as the target (not looking at you, 14th level Lore bard), giving you the bonus to your OWN mental checks--including Counterspell. Heading into a big boss fight as the main counterspeller? Heading into a big negotiation as the party face? Need to convince a powerful enemy of a lie using Deception as your party's only CHA character? You want "lowly" Tale #1.

[@dragondrummer3257]

I like the visuals in this video. And of course as basically always, your great analysis!

[@kolskit]

Maybe the level 3 Bardic Dice feature would be more fun if it said something like 'You can choose any one result equal to or less than the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration dice'.

[@DaDunge]

3:00 Say you're climbing up a cliff, you can cycle through giving each of your party members guidance as they move.

[@jonathanwynes2542]

This is similar to what I had in mind. Say you’re crossing a bridge and someone slips down and has to climb back up. Most of the time you can plan who goes in what order and save guidance person for last but in a situation that is unexpected the range could be crucial.

[@Malisteen]

Am excited for your thoughts on the Undead Warlock. Never thought I'd see a Warlock patron that would give Hexblade a run for its money as a multiclass dip for Conquest Paladins.

[@bringitonbatman]

Depending on whether or not your DM forces you to worry about alignment, Spirit Session should also allow you to attain Spirit Guardians as a spell. Personally, this is THE spell that makes the most sense to me from this feature. Though if you take it IMO it should only be necrotic.

[@michaelcords4006]

I personally love the 60ft range. Simply because its a visible spell that your casting and typically speaking - if another player is trying to do something involving an npc, you don't want to clearly cast guidance on the pc in view of the npc

[@joshuagaliley7564]

Using the group seance from the 6th level ability to pick up Speak With Dead provides some fun role playing opportunities. It is circumstantial, though.

[@davidstratton696]

Y would u do that when Bard’s get speak with dead naturally? Better to pick something they can’t get naturally.

[@Spectrulus]

Thanks for going in depth on this! I wasn't certain about the Van Richten book, and I was mostly curious about the player options, as my groups have a hard pass on horror.

[@pranakhan]

Love to see some content aimed at DM mechanics; To see how you would design a Dread Domain, incorporating other hazards & phenomena; elements curated from the other books to build an optimized player-level challenge!

[@flandequeso4847]

I think there is some misunderstanding between this kind of interpretation of the Spiritual Focus and the subclass's intention. Nothing in the rules says that spells that don't require a material component can't also be cast through a spellcasting focus. The rules are essentially absent on this instance, but arcane foci are described as channelling the magic of spells, which doesn't rule out using them more broadly. I think the clear intention is for every single Bard spell with a healing or damage roll to be applicable for this feature, you just have to be holding your skull or tarokka cards when you cast it. Otherwise the feature would be practically pointless, and the rules on handling foci unnecessarily restrictive.

[@misterpig7739]

I agree with this and that’s the way I plan on having it be at my table.

[@inMYtimeOFneed92]

@@sharkforce8147 Amen.

[@flandequeso4847]

​@@sharkforce8147 I agree with your point about "It doesn't say that I can't" being a terrible option in most cases because of out of bounds exploitable shenanigans. But similarly there's the opposite case, where restrictions are placed where no justification for those restrictions exists. I think that there's enough within the existing rules surrounding focus use to confirm that allowing their use for none "M" component spells is the proper way to rule it, despite some ambiguity... The rules are consistent on the fact that "M" components require focus use, but don't comment on the inverse - probably because the designers feel they don't have to. I can't see a reading of the sentence: "an arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells" where the meaning is taken to be that it can't channel the power of none "M" component spells, as anything other than counter-intuitive, or even misleading. The line between rule and flavour text is blurred here, but you wouldn't require a particular rule to allow you to sleep in a bedroll or take a cork out of a potion bottle. Since before now casting none "M" spells through a focus made no mechanical difference in essentially all cases, until the spirit Bard, I'd be comfortable treating the design of this subclass as confirmation that the 'liberal' interpretation is the proper intended ruling. Ultimately it's a pointless quibble, but I find pouring over silly DnD rules like I'm dealing with legal arguments more fun than doing actual work.

[@perrinsilveira6759]

My only thing to note is that Tale of the Beguiler gives incapacitated, which could be lifesaving vs a spellcaster with pumped-up concentration checks like any optimized mage would have. That could 100% swing a fight or save an entire party from something like a microwave combo as it isn't even a spell and can be done through a force cage.

[@MagicScientist]

I wonder if the intent with spiritual focus was for it to work if you use the hand holding the focus to perform somatic components as well, which opens up a lot more options.

[@tomgymer7719]

Worth noting that an 11 roll also removes petrified, which lesser restoration doesn't, usually you need greater restoration, a 5th level spell with an expensive and consumed material component. Still niche, but good when it comes up, especially as petrified is one of those conditions that often stays around until actively removed, rather than having a duration.

[@predwin1998]

If you can spare the time I could imagine a stressed Bard with a petrified party member desperately seeking out different spirits (rerolling the feature) until one of them offers the solution. With up to 5 attempts per short rest and rolling 2 dice per attempt this means you're likely to have a cure after only one or a couple of hours, or even without any rest if you get lucky.

[@timeforsuchaword]

One of my big issues with the subclass is the action economy of Tales from Beyond. It's an inspiration and bonus action to roll for something you may or may not want to use at the time, an action to use it, and sometimes another character's reaction as well. That's really expensive, especially if you roll something that isn't particularly useful.

[@THEdeadlynightshade1646]

Why not use it before combat that way you know the roll and can plan accordingly

[@timeforsuchaword]

@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 You should, but that only works for the first use. Considering how much of the power budget is centered on the feature and the power level of the particular options, I don't think once per combat is good enough.

[@THEdeadlynightshade1646]

@@timeforsuchaword fair enough I mostly think in early game terms since you only get a few uses before they come back on short rest

[@chriscarter8371]

I disagree a bit about Guidance only being useful if no one else has it. Not that this is game breaking or anything, but due to Guidance requiring concentration, I have found a number of times where I'm concentrating on something else (Detect Magic immediately comes to mind, as not every DM is cool with repeatedly handwaving ritual casting) and have to choose whether or not it's worth it to drop concentration to get the bump on a check.

[@1217BC]

He didn't say it was only useful if no one else has it, he said each additional character with it adds less value. Most of the time, one guidance source is all that is needed. A second person able to cast it often won't. But yes, sometimes a situation like the one you present will make it helpful. A third player with guidance will be even less likely to be needed, as both of the others will have to be concentrating, or otherwise unable to cast it. It's a case of diminishing returns.

[@chriscarter8371]

@@1217BC Yes, I wrote "only being useful if no one else has it" whereas he said it was "only a valuable feature if no one else has it". Those aren't the exact same thing, so fair enough. I understand what diminishing returns are, but I simply disagree that it isn't a good feature. I have no way to objectively measure the value of a second character being able to cast Guidance. Anecdotally, across different groups when playing the lone character with Guidance, I have fairly often run into situations where it would have been helpful to have another character capable of casting it. It is a cantrip, and again, I'm not trying to say it's a necessity or anything, just that even with a second character capable of casting it, I still find it to be a solidly useful.

[@jorgh5255]

The spiritual focus does work with magical secrets. So at least you can add to more spells that way..I would not choose your magical secret spells based on this though.

[@DuckyDarko]

I love the flavor of this subclass

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Me too.

[@Sulicius]

Guessing it right now: TM doesn’t like the inspiration feature because random boosts are not reliable/powerful enough.

[@Sulicius]

I was wrong!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@Sulicius Yeah, it surprised me too

[@THEdeadlynightshade1646]

@@Sulicius foolish fool you never underestimate the power of wait what? He liked it? Huh *hands over 20 gold pieces grumbling* x.x

[@sophiacozzo8964]

As a DM I, too, would use the "holding the focus" rule. When they talk about that in the UA video that seen to be the idea

[@sesimie]

As a Bard connoisseur and someone writing a novel on my Lorebard....this is a must see video...

[@Razdasoldier]

Tale of the Clever Animal does buff dispel magic, Couterspell, and telekinesis checks

[@edwardglover7392]

I just want to make sure you know that Tale of the Renown Duelist is still used from 30ft away, despite being a melee spell attack, as there is no clarification of range other than the "target within 30ft".

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I didn't know that, but looking again you are 100% correct.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

@@TreantmonksTemple I envision it as the bard manifesting the spirit of the duelist 30 feet away, which then makes a melee (spell) attack.

[@mattbriddell9246]

Before you start ho-humming the seance feature, remember that you can get some darn good spells like Telepathic Bond, Arcane Eye and even Hunter's Mark that will probably see use every adventure day.

[@davidstratton696]

Well Bard’s get telepathic bond naturally since Tasha’s. Still your right. Tho I was thinking more like revivify (tho I think Bard’s should get this naturally), or maybe gift of alacrity or wither and bloom (if your Dm allows those that is), or what I’m thinking about with mine is picking up inflict wounds or spirit shroud (spirit shroud definitely fits). And being able to switch it out is amazing.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

I would probably waive the cast through focus requirement of the spiritual focus feature. If you have the focus in your hand, you get the d6 bonus. Otherwise, the feature is almost useless.

[@the_ceeman]

You can use spirit session to get summon undead 👍

[@muriomoira]

Was considering multiclass spirit bard/divine sorcerer (for sanctuary, guiding Bolt and shield) for an exorcist, grab summon undead with spirit session... Any opinions?

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

You missed that Tale of the Angel cures petrified on top of what Lesser Restoration cures.

[@iljkozlatar9845]

I made a native american shaman like character and it worked perfectly. The third level feature Spiritual Focus is a great option. You strap a skull, a couple of rattles or carve a spirit board on the back of your shield and pronto. You can use a shield with no limitations to cast magic. There is no way that all of the pary members will not join jour ritual when you start dancing next to a fire sa a Spirit Sessoin. You just give a candle to the shy ones. I tell you, shamanism is the way to go with this subclass.

[@lucienbreitkopf1169]

There are some nice picks you could go for with spirit session that might not otherwise fit your magical secrets picks. Starting at lvl 9, I would probably pick up shadow of moil for an option to be actually decent in combat. But really, the feature somewhat overlaps with magical secrets and will probably cover more situational spells than real staples you'd pick up via secrets (well, and you get it a bit earlier).

[@Motaku1978]

I'm getting such a "13 Ghosts" vibe from this character subclass, and is how I would play the character.

[@JonathanMandrake]

I could also imagine it very much like a tribal shaman channeling the spirits of his ancestors and telling their tales, and changing the 12 names to things like The Tale of the Gazelle instead of Tale of the Runaway, Tale of the Cleansing Rain instead of Tale of the Angel and so on.

[@Maxiom5]

Im convinced the Focus is meant to apply to all spells. Otherwise literally no healing spell a Bard learns can qualify. To me the Intended reading is that they can use it on any bard spell and I would rule that way in a game I DM'd.

[@Halbed_Lemons]

Actually one singular healing spell qualifies: Regenerate, a 7th level spell gained 7 levels after you get the ability (most games don’t even get to 13th level either so for the most part you’re just gonna be using it with shatter and/or heat metal for the most part)

[@Klaital1]

I think you misread the Tale of the Beguiler, it's a bit better. The way it's written, the wisdom saving throw is only to negate the psychic damage, and they get incapacitated even if they succeed on it, compare how differently it's worded than the Tale of the Mind-Bender.

[@blackpeoplestorytime802]

Your right I think it's an auto incapacitation from what I see that's like a free counter spell for enemy concentration spells. Or auto knock a dragon out of the sky

[@SambaRoomba]

Any recommendations for useful spells to pick up through Spirit Sessions? Revivify seems like a safe and obvious one, but anything fun and situational you'd recommend for this quasi-Magical Secrets?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Revivify sounds like a good pick. Maybe animate dead, arcane eye?

[@mattbriddell9246]

Arcane Eye, Telepathic Bond and Hunter's Mark would be spells I'd use on a regular basis with this feature. Scrying, Speak with Dead and Divination/Commune would also be good ones to use when the situation calls for them.

[@davidstratton696]

@@mattbriddell9246 Telepathic bond, speak with dead, and scrying are all already on the Bard list so no reason to really pick them unless u really wanted other spells first but still want these.

[@KingNefiiria]

Ranged guidance is a 1d4 difference between letting your ally do some cool monk shit or landing on their tailbone. Ranged guidance is the difference between letting you ally roll with advantage on an investigation check or roll with advantage and a d4. It's better guidance, don't sully it by saying it's practically worthless if someone else happens to have guidance.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

Regarding Spiritual Focus: The Artificer casts spells through their tools even if those spells don't usually have a material component. Couldn't the Spirits Bard similarly choose to cast spells through their Spiritual Focus that don't have a material component? This would open up several spells to be enhanced, like Cure Wounds and Dissonant Whispers.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

The rules have specified that all Artificer spells use a material component whether listed or not.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

@@TreantmonksTemple The main sentence structure only says that you must have your tool(s) in hand when you cast. Then they add a clarifying parenthetical saying this means "the spell has an 'M' component when you cast it." IMO, this means that the M is the effect, not the cause. I guess the Spirit Bard subclass just needs an erratum adding a similar parenthetical here. That way everyone will be happy.

[@jelte3754]

Cool. I love the dark layout!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I'm glad you like it

[@S0nyb1ack]

What would everybody choose for their go-to spells as seance options? I think picking up "Summon undead" would be my default option. Maybe I would pick "revivify" before a fight I know could be extremely deadly (like the party getting ready to take on a dragon and having a second revivify caster might be useful to have). Maybe "Animate dead" could be interesting? When I initially read the feature I also thought Divination would be the go to school, but then I found all those necromancy spells I would potentially be interested in, because they are otherwise not available to bards :P

[@taintedtoaster]

I don’t know if this is super relevant, but the spell Wither and Bloom should get the d6 to damage and healing- and you can get it through the ritual ability you’d also get at level 6.

[@JelloBrand]

I think they should errata spellcasting so your focus can be used no matter the components AND it replaces material (excepting normal limitations)

[@scumbad7953]

I might be wrong but Tale of the Runaway looks like it could also be used on an enemy to waste reaction/manoeuvre them away from your allies.

[@J2982able]

The target uses its reaction to teleport, not you using yours. So the enemy would be the one picking when and where to.

[@wyattweber9983]

Wow that was not my reading of Spiritual Focus and doesn't seem like the intent but I guess it is how the spellcasting focus rules work, just doesn't seem right to penalize the feature that hard to me, mostly an issue with the wording of the rules regarding use of a focus though. I had a think about Tales of the Duelist, correct me if I'm wrong but I see nothing to say it wouldn't still have a 30 foot range just because it's a melee spell attack. It may be the intent but nothing seems to specify that, so to my mind it would work like Thorn Whip as a spell attack with range but that you can also use within 5 feet of an enemy without the ranged attack disadvantage.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You're right about Tales of the Duelist. 30 foot ranged melee spell attack - like Thorn whip I guess.

[@bwhit7919]

I can’t wait down until you break down the Dhampir, the fourteenth campaign-specific race that would completely redefine optimization if it were allowed in every campaign

[@bigdream_dreambig]

🤔 I wish the Tale's timing was different. My instinct would be to tell tales every night (e.g. around a campfire) or during a short rest, but that tale gets "erased" and must be reacquired at the END of every short and long rest. My first thought is to just ask the GM to allow the reset to happen at the beginning of the rests, but I'm worried that may have undesirable side effects.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

...although I guess this would interfere with the timing of the Spirit Session...

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Huh? Where do the rules say that _only_ spells with a material focus can be cast through a focus? The (barely existent) rules for foci specify that using one eliminates the need for a material component that isn't consumed and doesn't have a value specified in the spell description. I don't see any rule, one way or the other, whether a spell without a material component, or (so long as the caster has enough hands free) spell with a material component that is consumed or has a value specified, could be cast through the focus. If RAW says nothing about, one way or the other, about using Spiritual Focus with spells that don't require a material component, then DM's will have to make a ruling based on RAI or whim. Thus, ruling that a Spirits Bard can't cast a spell without a material component through their focus because there is no rule specifically saying they can, strikes me as akin to ruling the character can't ascend or descent a flight of stairs because there are no rules for stairs and thus no rule specifically saying they can be traversed.

[@karifox4980]

Isn't Guiding Whispers worse for a familiar? If it was still Touch you could cast it through the familiar, including on itself. The 60 ft. range means it has to be cast from you. Unless this feature makes the range Touch (60 feet)?

[@davidstratton696]

I mean considering the familiar can’t go more then 100 ft away from u it’s really not that big. It’s still a big upgrade to the cantrip flat out. I mean u could probably also still cast it normally tho u would have to talk with the Dm.

[@dragonhearthx8369]

Probably the best and your only choice for the spirit session spell, would be "wither and bloom"

[@troyyrob]

Being able to get a divination or necromancy spell for free basically frees up your magical secrets. You could prepare Revivify if you know you're going into a deadly boss fight for example.

[@DaDunge]

more than one guidance can be powerful. You can chain keep it up on people when yo travel, giving two people in the party guidance to their initiative.

[@kr3if750]

I have a character who is a phantom that bases on traveling around the world telling stories and when I've seen this subclass i decided - no matter how bad or good this is I will ask my dm if Im allowed to change my sublcass to this, which he did and I'm happy

[@ianlewis8726]

Could you use Tale of the Dragon on an enemy? Getting the BBEG to breathe fire on his minions’ backs would be pretty awesome.

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

That actually sounds awesome. I don't know if you can, though

[@davidstratton696]

@@Ricardo-zo1ti U can target enemies with it tho so nothing is saying u can’t. And honestly I’d be severely disappointed if a DM didn’t allow this. It just sounds so awesome any Dm that wants to take the fun away that this will give us no Dm I’d want to play with.

[@billnightbloom]

Would love if you could do a optimized chronurgist wizard build up to level 20

[@benhalstead5176]

The problem with this is that Runaway and Traveller are obviously better than a number of options on the spiritual table that come into play at higher levels, but getting those options reduces the chance of getting the options you want - It needed to make the higher number options better, so that the feature improved with level, instead there's little scaling and the odds get worse the higher level you go - Mystical connection goes some way to remedying this, but as it stands I can't see much point taking the subclass that high, maybe 5th for the Beguiler and Phantom options or 6th if you really want spirit sessions.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yes, the table order should go from 1=worst to 12=best.

[@Johnny_Shields]

I'm not a huge fan of random tables either but I actually like this one's implementation. It helps that it only has 12 good options.

[@martinsgaming_coc4395]

Hey, I am making a bard for a new campaign and I cannot decide between the college of spirits or the college of Lore. HELP PLEASE. I am so undecisive and both offer great things. I am in a campaign with all new players and I am the only spell castor. Being a new player myself, the bard looked easier than say a wizard or some other spellcaster

[@Zephyn13]

I prefer Lore over all other bard subclasses. Cutting Words to reduce enemy attack rolls or to reduce aoe damage feels great and saves lives. It's usually a good idea to max your Cha as soon as possible for more inspiration dice. At 5th level, they come back on a short rest, so you can negate attacks all day. I wouldn't say Bard is easier than Wizard, mainly because wizards can keep adding spells to their books while bards should be more careful in what they learn. Neither is particularly difficult, though. Work with your DM to swap out spells if you find that you don't like the choices you've made.

[@braevblackthorn6853]

Making a Fey Hobgoblin Spirits Bard, (Storyteller) for a kids mini campaign. Good help combo.

[@jamesonstalanthasyu]

I like the under 30min videos best. :D

[@markziff7234]

You may replace one of the components of a spell with their focus, so verbal/somatic can be replaced!

[@Guyoverthere07]

I imagine you're referencing this second sentence under the rules for Casting a Spell > Material Components. "In place of the [objects referenced in first sentence] components" is what they mean to say. We unfortunately cannot replace a V/S component with a M. That being said, absolutely no one who has read Spiritual Focus should adhere to the RAW and sleep soundly at night. The RAI is clear in that it's supposed to buff damage and healing spells with rolls. The fact that it cannot functionally buff any real healing spell in the game is an obvious red flag that they botched their intention. Material (M) Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components-or to hold a spellcasting focus-but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.

[@McCrappy]

"You can retain only one of these tales in mind at a time, and rolling on the Spirit Tales table immediately ends the effect of the previous tale." Would this mean that temporary HP given from rolls 3 and 6 on the spirits table would disappear?

[@abike5395]

I think so, yes

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I believe the temps, once given, would follow the standard rules for Temporary hit points.

[@clenzen9930]

Have you ever done a Swords Bard Analysis?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I believe I have in a far more abbreviated way. I haven't done a dedicated analysis video for them though.

[@MaMastoast]

@@TreantmonksTemple I found it very odd that knife throwers are specficially used an example for the swords bard, but they didn't gain the thrown fighting style in tashas.

[@cp1cupcake]

What spells do you recommend for the ritual?

[@theshadowbadger]

I often find myself wanting to cast guidance and saying “fuck it’s touch range” or PCs trying something risky and asking for a guidance and I have to say no because it’s touch. Overall, having a spirit bard giving both a guidance and an inspiration allows players to take risks they otherwise wouldn’t, and risky moves make for exciting play.

[@michaelhenman4887]

Just to point out, option 12 is way worse than stunning strike in one critical way: the stun ends at the end of a creature's turn, which means that depending on how initiative shakes it, it may not provide your party with any offensive benefit at all.

[@bluj7060]

Do you think it would be viable to take a few levels after 3rd in twilight domain cleric or peace domain cleric and continue to 17th/18th level for bard?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I mean it's a bit of a stretch on ability scores, though you could get away with a Wis 13 if you're dipping Cleric (Peace is an exceptional 1 level dip), so yes, perfectly viable I expect.

[@bluj7060]

@@TreantmonksTemple I was thinking that too. I thought that maybe I could do the reverse and go cleric 17/bard 3, but both of these domains are so good that they don't even need the extra stuff from bard.

[@carolxs]

The wording on spiritual focus is surely a mistake, I'm ruling on my table that the bard gets the effect when holding the spiritual focus. Also I'll let them use a bardic inspiration AND get the random effect as a bonus. This is too awesome as a role-playing class to not be used because of wording mistakes

[@minine6508]

Does Spirit Session feel incredibly strong to anyone else? at 6th level, you get access to spells like Gift of Alacrity, Fortune's Favor, Tongues, Blindness/Deafness, Revivify, and Summon Undead. At higher levels, you can get Eyebite, Divination, Scrying, Rary's Telepathic Bond, and True Seeing. Most of which aren't on Bard's spell list to begin with. And you get them for free. Spells like Rary's, True Seeing, Divination, and Tongues might not be incredibly useful to learn as a Bard normally, but getting them for basically free on a short rest could be very potent.

[@davidstratton696]

Scrying and telepathic bond are already on the Bard list naturally. I know some of the ones u mentioned aren’t like revivify (even tho it should already be naturally) but not sure about some others. Still yea it’s good especially with being able to swap it out.

[@FallstarFL]

The spiritual focus is to push you to pick certain types of magical secrets. Spiritual Weapon, for example.

[@arbitrary_mike7833]

Spiritual weapon doesn’t have a material component.

[@johnwilliams7827]

Are not all spells cast through your arcane focus if you channel through one? I don't understand why you are saying the bard cannot use spiritual focus' d6 on all healing and damaging spells

[@TreantmonksTemple]

No, only spells that have an M component are cast through a focus, which is the problem with the feature as written, though as I mention in the video, allowing it to work for any damage/healing spell rolls is probably how it should be run at the table.

[@mrjek01]

@@TreantmonksTemple maybe they mean that if you use the ability it requires the spiritual focus. Thereby adding the material component tag to the spell. Much like how Artificer uses tools for their spells.

[@TheUrns]

RAW the focus is only used to replace the material component of a spell. So it would only apply when a spell has one. I think the RAI is that you can use it on every bard spell you cast while holding the focus. So i would rule it like that on my table.

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

Can't wait for the next video which I presume will be the Undead Warlock, I think Wotc has been going out of there way to make the new warlock subclasses powerful and interesting, to give full warlocks a reason to not be Hexblades. And I'm definitely brewing up an Undead/Conquest "Lich King" build.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You are correct, that's next!

[@BlueFoxXT]

Dope! Funny enough, when the UA first dropped I started a Blindfighting Fighter/Undead Warlock build based on Illidan, and the Dread form being his demon form. Seemed fun but I didn't want to commit to it since UA always gets nerfed (except for Clerics of course)

[@clarkside4493]

Crypt Keeper as the subclass.

[@HobbNoblin]

Party comp idea. Please explain, in detail, how dead this party would be. - Variant Human Bladesinger Wizard Wood Elf Kensei Monk Hexblood Archfey/BoAS Warlock Lightfoot Halfling Spirits Bard No real theme. Just kinda like those class ideas, both together as a party and each on their own.

[@becomeanastronaut6232]

So just for my own clarification: rolling a Tale, giving it to someone (say it lasts 10 minutes) and then rolling again on the table will IMMEDIATELY cancel any ongoing effect for your ally, right? So there's no way to have multiple Tale buffs up at once? Or even to have a Tale in your mind at the same time as a Tale effect is active?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

There's no limit on the number of tales you can have active, just that you can have in mind, so if you are saving a tale for use, you can only have that one saved.

[@becomeanastronaut6232]

@@TreantmonksTemple I... Don't read it like that. "Rolling on the table ends any currently active effect" sounds like the effect of the Tale once it's applied to any ally...

[@davidstratton696]

@@becomeanastronaut6232 Honestly that’s bs and shouldn’t even have been added. It was so unnecessary and I honestly people should just ignore it. It makes the subclass more interesting and fun. It makes sense to only be able to have one stored at a time but once it’s used it should be active till it would normally expire (not if u roll on the table again to get another stored one). It just makes sense that way too. Another thing people should just ignore is the the whole spirit focus thing only working on certain dmg and healing spells where it should just work for all. It’s not like ignoring these breaks the game at all it just makes things more fun and makes things make more sense. I wouldn’t want to play with a nitpicking Dm who wants to do nothing but take the fun out of playing this subclass (I can understand if it would break the game but it wouldn’t).

[@macfine]

Just because you don't need to cast through a focus, Doesn't mean you can not cast through the focus

[@Quintal100kg]

By RAW it does though

[@macfine]

@@Quintal100kg by RAI it clearly Doesn't by this feature

[@smnb6652]

I'm no biggie on the Bard, but I really like the flavour of this one. Might be cool for a shorter campaign.

[@a99barnsey]

I think you undervalue spiritual focus. It's pretty cool to get the d6 added to a cantrip damage AND your healing word. Where it can really be effective is taking magic missile as a magical secret. RAW you roll damage once for each missile, so the d6 would affect each one. It basically doubles magic missile damage. And you can dip into hexblade to boost that even further. At level 11 you could be doing 1d4+1d6+5 per missile, which is solid damage.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

As I mention in the video, it doesn't apply to any cantrips, nor to healing word, and nor to magic missile now that you bring it up, because none of those spells are cast through a focus.

[@Indestructoboy]

@@TreantmonksTemple Spiritual Focus apologists always ignore the exact reason why this feature is so rough. It's happening all over my video as well, despite me calling it out multiple times.

[@a99barnsey]

@@TreantmonksTemple I don't think that's necessarily the case. At best, it's debatable. There is nothing specifically saying you can't use a focus to channel a spell. There are other examples like the instrument of the bards in which the description states that only spells with a material or somatic component work. That isn't stated here. At least not explicitly.

[@a99barnsey]

@@sharkforce8147 Except there are other examples where it is explicitly stated that spells must have a material or somatic component in order for an item to affect the spell. To me, that implies that the text of spiritual focus is flavor text. If it wasn't then it would similarly be explicit in saying "must have a material component".

[@andrecosta8680]

I guess spiritual focus is intended for all bard spells

[@johngleeman8347]

Gosh I hate the trend of them writing your high-level kit benefit to be the privilege of being less random with a random ability instead of improving the ability directly. Grinds my gears.

[@JelloBrand]

Doesn't this one technically have both improvement and less randomness because of the higher bardic die accessing better features?

[@Bain6969]

We need a lignting - heavy metal subclass bard

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

I think tales from beyond are actually pretty good for downtime, spice it up a bit

[@SpiderWaffle]

Does spiritual focus make L3 College of Spirits Bard the best AoE damage dealer in the game, at 3rd level? :O You could be a feat race and get metamagic adept for empower spell and careful spell. Next L3 oneshot baby!

[@phelps6205]

The bonus damage/healing only comes at lvl6, also, the way it is written, it is SUPER restrictive on which spells it affects.

[@SpiderWaffle]

@@phelps6205 Oh shoot, only useful part comes at L6 :'( Works on pretty much all AoE damage though.

[@mikeroberts817]

I hate the mechanic that varies the strength of a feature depending on (essentially) how many party members you have. I like games with fewer players. Why should I get a worse feature because of that?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

There are some ways around this. Things like familiars and the like could technically participate.

[@perplexingpantheon]

Honestly, I'd probably just let that extra d6 apply to any spell the bard casts whilst holding the spiritual focus in my game. That type of design and ambiguity in the wording is too much of a headache.

[@morganpetros9635]

When you consider that the extra d6 roll from Spiritual Focus *doesn't kick in* until 6th level, the feature actually IS pretty useless as written. I do like your house rule idea for it, however.

[@alathepriest9637]

I'm not sure I'd call the "Spiritual Focus" ability as negative as you are. If cantrips count as spells then Vicious Mockery gets a damage boost, and the 1st level Healing Word can now compete better against Cure Wounds since its main drawback is the low healing in exchange for range and bonus action.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Although cantrips count as spells, the feature as written only works on spells with an M component

[@alathepriest9637]

@@TreantmonksTemple interesting, didn't know you could only use a focus for a spell with a material component, i'll have to keep that in mind in the future, thanks!

[@bigdream_dreambig]

@@alathepriest9637 I'm not so sure about that. Up until this point, you have only ever gained a _benefit_ from using a focus with spells that required material components. There may be nothing saying you can't cast a spell through your focus that doesn't absolutely need it. That's what the artificer does with its tools, after all.