Color Reversal Process with RA-4 Paper - Large Format Friday

[@Raychristofer]

Dude you have humbled me for years I thought I was the best KZbin presenter and yes I am very good but I think you have me by a few points. Lol

[@MatMarrash]

Wow thank you so much for the compliment! I really like how you take the time to lay out and fully explain your process and take on films and gear. I remember watching your Lomo Metropolis and Lomo Purple videos. Also keep up the great work in-camera with B&W paper!

[@Raychristofer]

@@MatMarrash Thanks bro, much respect.

[@karinbrockmueller9672]

I love seeing the practical aspects, not just theory that you share. Theory i can look up. But what actually works in real life can be quite a bit different.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for the comment Karin! With a process that's so far from the real world usage of this material, I want to set folks up for the heavy experimentation that will be needed to start getting results.

[@imuttoo]

Love the very personal aspects of this one Mat! Informative and educational as per usual - also very uplifting. Thank you.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Ian! I take this one to heart since it's the closest thing I can get to that beautiful Polaroid 809 and Polaroid 20x24 look.

[@xoxrayxox4247]

Good video~Thanks Mat~Could I enlarging the color slide film with this processing?because the original cibachrome or ilfochrome is no longer avaliable.

[@MatMarrash]

Great question! This process was originally discovered by folks looking for alternatives to enlarging slides. So yes, this very much works in darkroom printing and I would argue it is easier in that setting.

[@jacopotassinari]

I'd really like to learn more about the ra-4 reversal process and wish to try it as soon as possible, thanks for the great video ^^

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks! I recommend checking out the video's I've linked to in the description. Ethan and Joe are masters of the process.

[@MichaelWellman1955]

My favorite quote: "It sounds easier than it really is". LOL. No it doesn't sound easy. I've enjoyed enjoyed seeing what people are doing with this and I understand the attraction to it but for me I think I may try something simpler like wet plate--LOL. Thanks for this video. I appreciate those pics even more now that I know what they had to go thru to get them.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Michael! I gave wet plate a go back in 2011 and 2012 when it was starting to come back into vogue and never got the supporting kit to make it viable for a kid fresh out of college. I'm having a blast with this and still think this is a tad cheaper than wet plate. Now time to make some ULF "plates"!

[@bthemedia]

Great to see this positive print process exploration again! very cool work! 👍👏

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks! It's a process that needs more attention and people working with it. This paper is cheaper than B&W and such a unique, punchy look.

[@jessejenkins6930]

Great video Matt! And yes changing things up now and again is also a great way to save yourself from burn out. I know it definitely helps me sometimes in that regard. And that was one of the main reason’s I switched entirely to film 6yrs ago. Because you can never run out cool and interesting things to do with film. I’ve always loved the fact that every roll of film always comes out just a little bit different than the next. That’s why I got bored with digital early on fairly quickly. Because I felt like all of my pictures just seemed to look all the same. Or in my mind they seemed a bit too perfect, if that makes any sense.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Jesse! It seems as though we migrated to film for similar reasons. That imperfect look of film and the addition of alternative processes does offer a wide range of results and "looks". Sometimes digital is too perfect for the job, but it can also be mighty convenient!

[@Brackcycle]

Very cool Mat! With so many smart people (you, Ethan Moses, Joe Van Cleave and Brendan Barry) I think I'll wait until the process clears. Certainly inspiring. I really like the unique colour casts you and others are getting. Good luck with project. I am just working on making my kit work for me. I just got some new sheets (Hp5 plus) today, so I hope to get going on my pinhole and barrel lens experimenting again. Are you finding supply of 4x5 FP4plus a bit low at the moment? I would guess that the supply has dwindled due to Covid and will be slowly building up again.

[@MatMarrash]

Hi Peter thanks for the comment! You definitely want to get comfortable with your camera and "the dance" first before throwing a bunch of new variables into the mix. From what I've seen in the industry, Ilford films dipped a little low around May and June but you should be seeing more inventory now that all of their films are shipping out again.

[@unityoc]

I'm interested in shooting RA-4 as a paper negative to be contact printed onto another sheet, I'm just looking for rolls without branding on the back. Have you ever experimented with that?

[@MatMarrash]

Never tried that process but should be within the realm of possibility. On another video, someone pointed out in the comments that a higher gloss finish will work before for contact printing and enlargement. Non-branded rolls typically have high minimum order quantities and cost more, so be ready to do a lot of work to justify cost.

[@scottwittenburg253]

Thanks for sharing this - can’t wait to get started on it!

[@MatMarrash]

Have fun!

[@Jacksymmar]

Very good stuff. I do it in my Darkroom using enlarger to expose the color positives with the same chemical process. Getting a Darkroom print from positive become simple.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Raymond! I had heard there were some folks using this to print color positives, and nice to hear that it's easy to do there as well!

[@karinbrockmueller9672]

Alright, so I've been wondering - How do you keep the notes straight. As in, what note belongs to what negative once you unload the film in the dark and put it in a developing tank etc....

[@MatMarrash]

Hi Karin, a lot of it is just remembering the scene, but for similar ones, check out my follow-up video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2ith4CjgZdreNE There's a few methods shown during the video for keeping track of settings, filtration, etc.

[@lassenielsen3308]

Hi Mat! Have you considered using a fixed (not exposed) sheet of colour film as a filter? Wouldn’t this give you the right amount of filtration?

[@MatMarrash]

The fixed-out C41 sheet is only a half-way step, there's still the tungsten balance of the paper to get to, filtration varying on your ambient/flash source. See my follow-up video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2ith4CjgZdreNE

[@lassenielsen3308]

@@MatMarrash ah! I see! I just saw a guy on Facebook stating, that he just used a fixed sheet op portra and he got really nice colours.

[@iNerdier]

Are you compensating for tungsten or for the orange film mask of colour negative film? I suspect the latter and therefore, maybe try a sheet/shot of unexposed but developed film as a filter? Probably not perfect but should be an easy approximation.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for the suggestion! Funny enough a few of the shots in that slideshow were using a piece of unexposed, processed c-41 film as a filter. Still had lots of cyan to eliminate, but closer than using a single B&W print filter.

[@iNerdier]

Mat Marrash rats, I knew that seemed too easy.

[@anaphael]

moofy hey just wanted to let you know that i may found something really cheap to get filtration quite close. Its balanced for 5500k so for most flashes, but if you are shooting outside under 6500k daylight you can simply but one more 1/8sun cto in front. MY FILTRATION : are some godox v11t 2x the strongest orange filter +1 1/2 cto and i think 1x 1/8 magenta , ill post some results of the ra4 pictures soon on my insta schafer.leon

[@iNerdier]

Leon Schäfer that’s good to know, if still slightly confusing. I haven’t had a chance to try myself yet but I am borrowing a colour meter so I will try and measure exactly what filters it needs with that.

[@anaphael]

moofy hi i would love to see your results, with that color meter. i tried it with a digital camera, but the paper is balanced under 3000kelvin and my digital camera doesnt really do that, so i would love to hear your results

[@nunca_te_acostaras]

Nice Matt! I am doing this but only in black and white untill now... hydrogene peroxide is not need it to bleach before the color development? Thanks!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Juan! Since this is done on color paper, no bleaching is needed since the color developer will only work on the color dyes and not the silver in the paper. Then the blix will take care of the excess silver from the B&W negative.

[@nunca_te_acostaras]

@@MatMarrash cool! using h2o2 110 vols. makes it even more expensive, better if is not needed! Crazy idea, Mat... do you think compensating the white balance on camera but aswell after the B&W developmente (instead of using white light to re-exposse, using an orangish light) could work?. my RA-4 kit will arrive in about a week, I have time to think about it...

[@MatMarrash]

Hey Juan this has been a topic of discussion among RA-4 reversal printers. The color balance of that step doesn't appear to alter the final image too much. My setup uses a tungsten balanced light just to be sure. Such an interesting and fun process!

[@gregelisara9153]

Hey Mat, thanks for the inspirational videos. I'm just starting LF (4x5) and was drawn to it by the zen of the whole process, so I find these types of video interesting. I was interested to hear about your Speedotrons - I'd love to see a video on using strobes for LF.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Greg, strobes for LF is on the list of future LFF episodes, for sure!

[@m00dawg]

I don't need another reason to want to get into 8x10, but now I have one :) Thanks Mat! Really cool to see more folks trying out the Ethan-Joe method! Really does make me want to do both color printing and 8x10. I don't anticipate I will ever be able to find (or afford) and 8x10 enlarger so if I ever got an 8x10 camera, it would be for contact printing BW's and probably a scan workflow for E6 and C41. This certainly is another potential fun thing to add to the "benefits of spending all my money on 8x10" category ;)

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Tim! I'm horrendously biased, but there's a reason they call 8x10 the perfect format! Killer contact prints, insane scans/enlargements, in-camera alt process and direct positive, 8x10's got it all.

[@erwanlecornec5393]

Hi! That is such a cool endeavor! Well done I love when people ar pushing limits like that! I pretty sure you've tried it so then the curiosity is why it's not working: why not use an 85 filter meant for tungstene balanced film stock? Do you still have a wrong color cast? Maybe just correcting it when you re-expose it may be a better solution though... With a color enlarger and it's filters even... But for that to work you would need predictable results which you don't seem to get!... Man that's complicated and so exiting!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Erwan, I'd recommend checking out the follow-up video if you haven't already: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2ith4CjgZdreNE Some more consistent results and the theory behind it are revealed. Long story short, it's a very picky process with much tighter tolerance than even slide film!

[@daniel_malva]

Hey man! Stunning results here! So, did you teste Dektol stock or one type of dilution? You can try to use a negative orange base as a filter. Thank you for sharing it!! Cheers!

[@MatMarrash]

Hi Daniel thanks for the comment. I've used this technique with Kodak Dektol (1+2) and Ilford Multigrade (1+9) with good results. Using a single color negative isn't strong enough filtration, you may need 2-3 to get a decent color balance.

[@daniel_malva]

@@MatMarrash Great! I've tried it a long time ago but made a negative image. Have you wroten these steps in a blog or a pdf? Where could I read about your experiments?

[@szadow_]

@@MatMarrash what was your dev time&temp with Ilford Multigrade (1+9)?

[@MatMarrash]

I treat it like any other B&W RC paper, 90 sec. @ 20C.

[@MatMarrash]

No blog posts, but there's a new video up now!

[@davidweiss7411]

Thanks Mat. Your video spurred me to Iorder paper, chemicals and filters today. One question: what volume of RA-4 developer are you using per session? This is one shot, but do you use it on several sheets in one session or is good for only one sheet, then you need new developer? I take it the blix will last a couple of months.

[@MatMarrash]

Awesome news David, have fun with it! So I'm using Kodak Ektacolor RA-4 chemicals that mixes up one-shot using a Stock solution, replenisher, and a small bit of water. For 8x10 sheets, I mix up 1-2L at a time and can use for upwards of 20 sheets in open trays. The blix lasts a long while, but I'll keep a tally count on a piece of tape on the bottle to track use.

[@67jmadison]

Awesome video, Mat! I had no idea this was a thing...

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Madison, it's a wildly fun process that's a change of pace from conventional films!

[@Sanigobass]

have you tried an 85b filter?

[@MatMarrash]

Hey Santiago, #85b's aren't strong enough, check out my follow-up episodes on the channel, LOTS of improvements have been made to the process since airing.

[@kylemichaels3590]

This is amazing! I was thinking it looked a lot like type 59 (same emulsion as 809) before you even mentioned it haha. Makes me wonder if you could color correct expired polaroid using a filter pack as well! I think because it’s so much more of a challenge when using a process that has so many factors that could potentially ruin your photo that it’s that much more satisfying when everything works. I know I feel that way when I shoot an old expired polaroid sheet film that’s perhaps decades old, and you have to account for the how much sensitivity it might have lost, the temperature when processing, getting an even spread (or at least centered spread), and color shift all on top of the normal factors that go into shooting large format. To me there’s also an added romantic aspect to the idea that the sheet of film you just exposed has been waiting DECADES to fulfill its purpose and probably passed through so many hands and so many places and when it all comes together to make that final image and it’s somehow still a full spread and properly exposed that’s pure magic!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Kyle! I tried to use correction filters a few years back on Polaroid an all it appeared to to was lengthen exposures and not change color much. I think it was due in part to the film and the chemicals expiring simultaneously. Totally agree on the satisfaction you get when making something work that's super old and just waiting for the right photographer. Cheers!

[@Ashleelori]

Thank you for this 🍀🙏✊✊✊✊

[@MatMarrash]

You're welcome Ashlee! Have you tried RA-4 reversal yet? It has that expired Polaroid look if you let it. :)

[@briansegarra9312]

Tetenal has a small pack of ra-4 chemestry I think, also if fpp sell 4x5 cut paper I would totally try it

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for the comment Brian! I've never personally tried the Tetenal RA-4 kit, and I'll pass the word along to FPP HQ.

[@TimFitzwater]

I believe I heard you talk about this process on FPP. Very cool stuff. My studio is all Speedatrons as the photographer I bought it from started with 4x5. I have to put a lot of diffusion in front of some of them shooting with my Canon 5DIV!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Tim! Yup I was chatting it up on FPP for a while, it's definitely something easier to show to viewers than talk about via audio only. If you've got the Speedo's I'd say give it a try! Throw that Mark IV into video mode and document the process.

[@TimFitzwater]

Mat Marrash it was definitely better to see the visuals for sure! Looks awesome even being “off”. If you are ever in the Akron area and want to nuke some slow film hit me up! My goal is to try it myself eventually- that is why I dig the channel.

[@MatMarrash]

Hey Tim will do! I've got extended family and friends in the Akron/Canton area so I'll hit you up next time I'm in that neck of the woods.

[@TimFitzwater]

@@MatMarrash oh nice! My studio is in Cuyahoga Falls - right across the river from Akron(beautiful Gorge here).

[@jalakanen]

I really need to try it.

[@MatMarrash]

You totally should, it's tons of fun! (albeit a bit smelly)

[@ImperiousImages]

Ive been interested in this process as a possibility for getting into 8x10. I had settled to only shoot x-ray or cheaper BW film, but this may be a solid alternative. It seems the combination of filters can have a huge impact on the colors. Is this the same filter as Ethan Moses? Also, we need a link to where to buy that Andy Warhol shirt!!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks and yes, the filters make all the difference in the process. I'm getting closer to what Ethan and Joe were using, but having fun playing around with different filter combinations. Ethan is dead-on with using B&W print filters 0 + 1/2 (or 1) in front to compensate for strobes. Outside lighting is tricky since color balance is always changing. Check out Uniqlo for awesome art shirts, sometimes they even have photo brands on there!

[@eyedunno7078]

Thanks Mat, I've been waiting for this episode- love the Andy shirt too!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks! There will be updates on this process as I get it a little more consistent. Also if you like random photography and art shirts, keep an eye on Uniqlo. From time to time they get some sweet ones.

[@xander1052]

perhaps the best way to shoot with the paper is to shoot under studio lighting?

[@theclovercross]

real fun seeing more on this process. I'm gonna try the bw route first but I'm hoping to try this in the future :)

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks! In retrospect, I should have introduced the B&W negative process first, but that's coming soon! You should definitely try them both.

[@miracleyacht__1538]

This idea came to me randomly but what if you just held a piece of clear, developed color neg film in front of the lens. Wouldn’t that be the exact color correction you’d need?

[@MatMarrash]

As someone that's exposed several hundred additional RA-4 sheets as direct positive since this video, that only gets you half-way!

[@miracleyacht__1538]

@@MatMarrash wdym?

[@MatMarrash]

@@miracleyacht__1538 Full explainer here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGWnipR-rdRqnMU

[@nolanlister194]

Doing exactly the same! Almost got the filtration down with strobes... then the slog begins with natural light

[@MatMarrash]

Yeah natural light can be a bear, but still a lot of fun with funky colors!

[@gerryyaum]

fun video thanks for inspiring.. my project THE FAMILIES OF THE DUMP got shut down because of Covid..

[@maxfig4167]

why don't you try getting color correction filters. you can use yellow filter yellow is the opposite of blue, may be you can get correct color with those filters, just in case you can get them on freestyle.com (and this is not a propaganda)

[@MatMarrash]

Check out the update, progress was made: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2ith4CjgZdreNE :)

[@terrywbreedlove]

Seattle fell to pieces. I live just 4 hours away. I bought 5 rolls of 120 Cinestill 800 months ago after waiting a year for it to be on the market again. Was planning a nice warm summer weekend shoot with lots of tourist and . Planned to shoot some city street lights and the Ferris wheel on the water front etc. Then riots and shootings and burning everything. So I am staying way out here in the sticks until they stop the violence. Also had a May road trip planed to New Mexico but yes Covid 19 lock down ruined that. Shooting a Flower in my carport on 4x5 tomorrow 😝

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for sharing your experience Terry! This year has been a rough one for ongoing projects in just about every discipline. Start back simple and with tools you already have on-hand. Hope you knock it out of the park with the flower shoot!

[@ThuNguyen-mh3hc]

Some segments in the video are stamped not adjacent to each other

[@Stringandsealingwax]

tl,dr.