Comaland - Commodore 64 demo - First Place at X2014

[@safsafmando1418]

the texture-mapped cube at 8:06 was impressive

[@the1marauder2]

Well, I've just seen the high bar in c64 demos sets. Well done Censor/Oxyron. Also, 4 dislikes? 4 people have no digital souls.

[@DeathBringer769]

The music is so damn addictive, and yes the demo is damn impressive of course too :)

[@samsam2235]

19:37 "Maja, wo bist du?" gets me every time. This demo is a masterpiece.

[@purrbox7514]

It makes you wonder "what if...." The SID chip was actually meant to have have 32 oscillators instead of 3. Just imagine the warm sound it could have created. The c64 could have been a staple in every recording studio. Electronic music would sound a whole lot different today.

[@AstralS7orm]

Do you mean like this demo? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXmnf5aJnr6Dmac That's actually 8 SIDs so just up to 36 voices...

[@axonis2306]

No, because it would cost much higher and greatly reduce its customer base.

[@bradleyhove4177]

Wonder no more - the designer of the SID chip, Bob Yannes, took two other Commodore employees and built Ensoniq synthesizers. You can get tell the heritage is shared listening to the Ensoniq ESQ-1, capable of some C64 type sounds but in a much more "full" quality.

[@pixymisa8087]

The Apple IIgs had a 32-voice sound chip by the same designer as the SID.

[@Asterra2]

My "what if" has always been along the lines of an Amiga with 8 voices. (Makes all the difference in the world-just look at the SNES. Amiga games were 99% forced to choose between music and sound effects.) Full stereo panning for all voices would have been nice, too.

[@EvilCensor]

Some beautiful effects here. Well executed and sequenced. To have seen this in the 80's would have been unbelievable.

[@nzoomed]

Imagine how good the games could have been if we had people like this on the dev teams!

[@SwordfighterRed]

Go take a look at Red Zone for the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive to get an idea. :)

[@rbxgemini]

This demo probably takes up all of the computers RAM, making it unusable for gaming.

[@destruxandexploze2552]

GEMINI Unless they get a RAM expansion cartridge. 😉

[@Bustermachine]

@@destruxandexploze2552 Still limited by computer's address space unfortunately. :( And @GEMINI I think his point is that the skill needed to get this much out of the machine would still have been applicabe within the confines of a games graphical budget. This sort of intimate understanding of the hardware and software tools is how games that are graphically impressive for their era are created.

[@jrmb242]

The common misconception of non-programmers is that retro demos are actually harder to do than current games, while in fact - the opposite is true. If for nothing else but the much, much more advanced math knowledge needed for building a modern 3D engine. But... if you want a modern programming art... real art... try 4k demos like Hoody or Elevated from RGBA guys. If I'd have to choose what to code or be shot into the head, if this... or their stuff... I know pretty well what I'd pick to have a chance to survive. ;-)

[@pedrogoncalves8301]

7:23 gives me goosebumps, feels like I'm instantaneously transported to the 80's

[@MMSZoli]

holy suit! That's really impressive... Fantastic gfx and very addictive musics...

[@mircomuller7937]

All pretty cool, but the IK stick-figure at 9:40 is insane! Since it is rotating on the floor I do not think sprite-animation tricks could have been used. Does anybody know the folks from Censor Design & Oxyron who wrote this? One has to keep in mind... all the C64's 6510 CPU can do is 8-bit integer addition, subtraction and shifting. That a very limited tool set for implementing linear algebra in 3D to get that stick-figure to dance.

[@Wasserstoffperoxid2020]

Its an Animation. they used 3 "Pictures". Each of those Pictures are done with a Characterset.

[@doomniel]

The SID chip should be mandatory in every electronic device... even in toasters.

[@supper_e1823]

Instead of a ding, you would get a funky jam session with your toast lol

[@johnsmith1953x]

Thermometers.

[@sgamer-xc1bd]

13:33 It's hard to believe that music and sound effects are coming from the SID 0_0

[@Sno6403]

PCM sampling? Or just really good use of the sound chip?

[@YszapHun]

this is tracker sampling. obviously not created from simple waveforms like sine, saw, noise, pulse or triangle

[@Kromaatikse]

Making the SID chip do that is an achievement in itself. It doesn't have "PCM" or "tracker sampling" features natively; you have to bend it over backwards to emulate them.

[@greenlemon9763]

Those are pcm samples

[@magnarharestad9690]

Hi guys, here is an answer from the Music Composer himself. :) The song is actually a Protracker module file of 48kB size. Out of that, 23kB is songpattern data because the Protracker format is quite stupid that way that it actually reserve 1kB per song pattern. As you might also know, is that the Amiga supports 8-bit PCM at a sampling frequency of up to 28kHz, but on the C64 we can only manage to play 8-bit samples in 8kHz so all the samples are in the Amiga module already sampled at that fixed frequency rate. The song is then converted into a new C64 format with the OxyMod tool that THCM created. Basically, it is a tool that analyze the song patterns and create a packed-version of that data. So those songspatterns of 23kB are packed really well and ends up in just a few kBs. Furthermore, it analyze the samples and how they are played and shortens them and pack them into memory. Which means that the other 25kB of sampledata is further reduced. In the end, the song is "only" half the memory of the C64, which means you can have quite a lot of sprites and bitmap animations also added to it. Since the C64 Music-player is not only playing 4ch Amiga module, there is also added a 5ch for the greeting voices. So in practise; You are listening to a 48kB sized Amiga module with a 5ch greeting voice ;) Now, that on a ordinary stocked C64 without any expansion or cartridge tricks. I am still amazed by THCM making this possible. He is the true wizard behind it all, really! Thumb up for him!

[@agpxnet]

Best 3D effects on a C64 demo I've never seen, these guys are 8-bit 3D Wizards!

[@chinosts]

Astounding programming skills..

[@KLa35]

My fave bit is of the dancing endoskeleton.

[@orkestargtmp]

They squezzed the last living bit from c64. Excellent work!!!

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

Outstanding achievement. One of the best examples of taxing the C64 to its limits I've ever seen. Well done. JW3HH

[@p3kkalang3r]

Always upvote rotating 3D cubes!

[@iambugking]

Haha, they're my weakness.

[@clyth41]

This is class just class....long live the c64...

[@tinyreelservicesinternatio575]

Glad to be alive, beeing able to enjoy these state of the art demos !

[@welshie6313]

Just stumbled on this now. Holy crap, it's amazing! 64K machine!? Amazing work!

[@ettit6283]

I can't believe it's done on C64... 64 KB of RAM! WOW!

[@ChrisJackson-nd9yt]

God damn. This is the new Dutch Breeze. A standard-bearer for the next 5 years. It's missing that Dutch sense of humor but the visuals, effects, sound and music have raised the bar so high I imagine some sceners will quit over it.

[@Sno6403]

This stuff is insane. Wow

[@iambugking]

How do they save the animation of the dancing guy? It's incredible!

[@johnnybravo8281]

Fantastic best C64 demo imho...I Love it so much

[@gavinthecrafter]

The music at the end has this sort of- nostalgic quality to it almost. To me it's kinda like Home Resonance as being nostalgia for things that never existed. Does anyone else have this feeling or am I being crazy?

[@Wolf-SkidRow]

Excellent work by censor amazing skills putting the 8bit to da max.....Also good recording work mr mouse enjoyed watching this...

[@shouse_zip]

WhiteWolf aftermath You mean 4 bit music, right?

[@Wolf-SkidRow]

no i ment the C64 buddy that was a 8bit ;)

[@CWild-Music]

Just fantastic piece of artwork… Thank you for this moment guys !

[@way2muchNFO]

we were once given great tools.. for the icons of the past and future to meet once again

[@bigmaxy07]

I imagine you all had a 1980's like me and this music has just put me right back there. Beautiful.

[@ThomasWinders]

6:31 - rescue on fractalus FTW ;)

[@DIYDSP]

my face is melting.

[@Baphomets_Kid]

You should get that checked out.

[@manixburn6403]

Love the greeting screen, tune and all.

[@JohanBrodd]

I'm friggin impressed right here!

[@dpac0]

One word: WOW

I am still angry at myself to this day that back in the days of the C64 and ZX Spectrum I went for the absolute piece of shit ZX Spectrum. I must of been mental! This demo even blows away some Amiga demos. It's bloody gorgeous! How the hell they managed it on 64k is beyond belief, or even 128k. The amount of colour on the screen at once is awesome. I am in awe!

[@ICanDoThatToo2]

+yogibear2k10 Actually, it took around 680k. I saw 3 flips, which is 4 disk sides, and each side is 170k. Still not that simple; they had to load that data while playing the demo.

[@MariuszZaleski13]

+yogibear2k10 I had C64 and was thinking this same about Amiga 500. C64 + Floppy was this same price as A500a and the guy in the shop told me that whan I was buying it. As I wrote some basic programs in the notebook already for C64 I decided to stick with it. It was fun time, specially because I was on demo-scene very quickly and met lot's of awesome people. Some of them I know till this day. It's true that C64 had many paradoxes in the architecture that programmers could exploit and display things that were jaw dropping :-) Not sure what would happen if I had A500. Maybe this same, maybe not. Today I think that what supposed to happen happened and gave up being sad about it. It doesn't matter now anyway. There is n C64, no Amiga and no ZX Spectrum anymore. PC and Mac took over everything. Today I write for PC in .NET, play with databases etc. It's different than C64 (I was writing software for it for good few years and member of demo scene too). After digging into it deeply I started to love it too. C64 seems very simple now compared to what is going on in software for PC. We need to go with the flow, not to get stucked looking back with sentiment.

[@richardphilip9028]

+yogibear2k10 You're extremely naive- first you won't go for a Commodore 64 and now you won't go for a turntable? Pity, pity.

[@richardphilip9028]

yogibear2k10 And having a mentality like yours on everything is a horrible way to think. Ooh, it's old. So are my grandparents- I suppose instead of visiting them, I'll just emulate them. You know, you've made me realize that stupid is not a person, but a feeling- when you make stupid accusations with no facts to back them up, I feel stupid knowing that people like me, who have done research and know their stuff can't possibly teach idiots such as yourself the truth. This is mainly because you don't care- you're right and everyone else. I'm just warning you- I came for revenge. You did not finish what you started, and I will ensure that this is ended once and for all.

Richard Philip LMAO Revenge in what? Your stupid comments make me look like a genius! Yes, I am right and everyone else is wrong, so get over it. Yes, a lot of old things are now pointless (especially crappy vinyl,) and old computers (whats the point?) And you should feel stupid, cause you are. Doing research? So, what you saying is that you have done research not based on your own skills/knowledge, but someone elses who just happens to share your views. GREAT! Lets not have our own opinions, lets just agree with some other idiots! Core, that will work! Also, you need to read what you write before you press the enter key. You statement reads like a dyslexic 4 year old! (you may have to look up the word Dyslexic and you are definitely too stupid to know what it means.) I just LOVE the warning! I haven't laughed so much in ages! I eat children like you for breakfast (if I can be arsed!)

[@5HlNOBI]

BRILLIANT!

[@zadislive]

This is massive!

[@OneEyedJack1970]

These demo guys (and gals?) never cease to amaze.

[@DementedCaver]

Impressive, most impressive.

[@curiousottman]

Mind blown.

[@fitfogey]

Just incredible.

[@AmigaVR]

Awesome demo🤘🏻

[@hai.1820]

That skeleton dance is amazing!!

[@trixylizard6970]

6:49 Dude! Shoutout to Rescue on Fractalus 1985!

[@angels.3815]

Amazing! Good job!

[@Locateson]

Ok so it has been 7 years already? Damn I'm getting old.

[@felixisdev]

Nice SID tunes!

[@andrea71italia]

Per quei tempi il mitico Commodore 64 era avanti 10 anni rispetto alla concorrenza e non per niente è nel Guinness dei record come computer + venduto nella storia e il numero di programmi software scritti

[@TheXextreem]

How in the f*ck have you get that speech with the SID chip just how wtf! 3D is already impressive but the speech wow just wow.

[@HuntersMoon78]

Amazing what can be achieved with 1Mhz and 64K or memory

[@freaker126]

this old game intro is so damn long. Had to forward till 6:43 just to watch the gameplay. :p

[@xiaochicash]

5:17 Where those sprites? I counted no more than 8 independently moving objects on the screen, so they must have been. But they are so big.

[@DavidGalloway]

+xiaochicash The bee and what it was holding are sprites but the clouds in the background are a 'text' screen with character set. You'll notice that they move fairly chunkily and also when they overlap sometimes you notice they are tiled. (Verified using icu64.)

[@diamondsmasher]

+xiaochicash The trick with the C64 is timing the sprites with the scanlines. After a line of screen (including the sprites) has been drawn, they can move the sprites to a new location to be drawn again. So while they can only use 8 sprites per scanline, they can keep using the same sprites over and over per screen.

[@djmips]

+diamondsmasher That's a common technique, but in this case only the bee is a sprite.

[@SettimaLegione]

probably the bee is a combo of sprites, to add more colors and size...

[@doctorsocrates4413]

This is incredible.

[@reset1974]

Superb!!!

[@way2muchNFO]

a machine from 1982

[@ps9117]

How is this possible?!?!?! C64 omg

[@jlewwis1995]

O wow, was there 3D rendering in some of those scenes? 😨

[@KC9UDX]

At least that's what it looks like

[@SpacePoodle]

whoa, how is this even possible??

[@johneymute]

mind blowing.

[@StruttinSuccess]

That's amazing for 1982 technology (based on "left over" 1970s technology). I'm curious: if you slowed down to-day's latest PC to 1 MHz and reduced RAM to 64K, then would a programmer be able to pull off the same demo?

[@themriron2391]

An even better demo, in fact; nowadays architectures are so much more efficient. For example, I heard once that a 3GHz Pentium 4 would equal a modern single core i3 down clocked to 500MHz

[@Bustermachine]

@Kurt Pedersen That's an argument against modern lazy programming. Not what could be done with modern hardware and programmers trying to push it to the limit. Which unlike software has only grown more exacting in the care of its design and manufacture. I can assure you such programmers still exist. They simply tend to get payed exorbitant amounts of money making highly specialized and very reliable code that most consumers will never see because it's operating deep in the guts of the electrical grid or the guidance systems of missiles or in medical machinery.

[@AnthonyFlack]

You wouldn't be able to do these tricks on a 1MHz processor without the VIC-II video chip.

[@AstralS7orm]

Hmm, no. C64 has a lot of custom hardware in it making amazing things possible. (Sprite blitter, programmable RF driver, VIC-II, SID.) To do this fully in software, you need a bunch more memory and clock. I'd say 640K, SB16, Pentium 2 and SVGA is enough for everyone. I mean everything C64 can pull off. To go full hardware and timing emulation, you need current top of the line CPUs though.

[@Wasserstoffperoxid2020]

9:40 der kommisar geht um... wer hats noch rausgehört?

[@japosnes6210]

Anyone rememers "Simulmondo"? An Italian software house very popular in animations and 3d in those years

[@betterbeavailable]

Amazing. Nothing else to say.

[@MichalTerajewicz]

Remember famous Future Crew's demo from PC around 1993? This is better!

[@Exabyuwu]

The thing is this might be going at one frame per hour and all of those complete frames played at 30 fps

[@turekretromaniak]

SUPER ! MUSZĘ TO ZOBACZYĆ NA MOIM C128D - MICHEL MNIE ROZ......AŁ :)

[@deadpoolredsuit4892]

1:46 Music

[@gamewizardks]

Amazing. I love it.

[@baro8266]

Un capolavoro! Qualcuno mi spiega perché riesco a caricarlo su VICE e non su C64 con scheda KUNG FU FLASH? Non parte!

[@Kevin93.]

??????? Comment ils ont fait ?!?! Comment ils ont fait pour faire la 3D sur C64 ?! Et comment ils ont fait pour trouver des sons digital pour ça !? 🤩

[@Reraiser777]

kann vielleicht wer in kurzen worten beschreiben wie sich die digitalisierten soundsamples (wie bei jeroen`s turbo outrun) oder sprachsamples (wie in dem comland-demo) im c64 generieren lassen?

[@Ohlukei]

Der Soundchip kann einfach gesagt in den verschiedensten Frequenzen "brummen". Dadurch kann er musik oder sprach samples erzeugen.

[@crazyleg2006]

C=64 for life, Betches!

[@allan.n.7227]

WAUW!!!

[@teckyify]

This is just ridiculous!!! Wtf how even???

[@SchardtCinematic]

This was done on a standard C=64 with no upgrades or modifications to the original out of box hardware?

[@guesswhoscoming9046]

Yes

[@SilvercattoOsom]

Why do we need RTX cards for ray-tracing again? The Commodore 64 can already handle it back in 1982!

[@pansaroma]

that times :D

[@neonvoid]

brutal

[@Amiga4kT]

Flip DISK. yeah. And punch the sidehole :-)

[@withgrowinginsanity198]

How???

[@PSPBobb]

Does anyone know if the 3D rotating, textured cube is calculated real-time? I just can't believe my eyes.

[@destruxandexploze2552]

Bobb, sorry for the late reply, but in the description it says recorded from a real C64 and new SID chip. Yes, this truly is real time. Your mind is blown wide now isn’t it?

[@herrfriberger5]

@@destruxandexploze2552 *Calculated* in real time, not displayed in real time!

[@iViking90]

No NTSC version I assume?

[@TonHet1]

1mhz...

[@Josh-le6lu]

This is art, but I know you don't need some anonymous stranger to tell you that.

[@Elbas_Tardo]

Standard c64?

[@Raccoon49]

The fairy has a cute butt! :) And I love the dance part!

[@Mayhemsurfer]

no way this is done on a standard c64-

[@MrMousefromXeNTaX]

Assuming this is a compliment, since of course it was on a vanilla C64. That is the golden rule of demo making on the C64. It has to run on the standard C64 with stock 1541 diskdrive, because that is used for the competition.

[@bubis]

iNsanE

[@ecernosoft3096]

As a true atarian, this is **impressive.**

[@BelgorSunstrider]

Wow

[@ulysmusic]

Tres bon !

[@stevearbogast8556]

Get the fuck outta here! this demo is insane!!!!!!!

[@random_precision_software]

Not bad for a PC demo lol

[@way2muchNFO]

escaepe vaelocity

[@matthiasbohme3746]

☮DANKE. DAS sind credis..sagts man so.. C:R.E.D:IS!

[@gehtniemandwasan2925]

Looks like amiga. No, better...

[@bigmoney66b]

I call major bullshit. As a C-64 owner and someone who coded 6502 and BASIC I can tell you there is no way this was done with an actual C-64, a modded 64 maybe, but not a genuine c-64........processor of an original C64 would never be able to handle this, and you could never possibly cram this entire demo in 64k. no fucking way !

[@mikezuurman1445]

+bigmoney66b Nice trolling. I guess you weren't much of a coder then.

[@ChrisJackson-nd9yt]

+bigmoney66b partially true. Some of the logos, music and code were done on other platforms then ported over to c64. However, as long as it runs on a c64, that's all that counts in the end. People were "cheating" by converting Amiga stuff to the C64 back in the 90's.

[@SerBallister]

BASIC, that's your problem right there.

[@afrosheenix]

SerBallister you got it. This was all assembly.

[@64Abstract]

6502 ASM better than BASIC lol.

[@sergiomax1607]

fake

[@destruxandexploze2552]

sergio max Nope, it was a demo and dev team made for a 2014 Commodore Tech Meet-Up