CIA Legend | Former Director of the Directorate of Operations | Case Officer | Jose Rodriguez

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Today we hear a unique Combat Story from the former Director of the CIA’s Directorate of Operations and long-time Case Officer Jose Rodriguez. Jose’s level at the CIA was equivalent to a general officer in the military, to give you an idea of his responsibility and impact.
Jose was a case officer and Chief of Station in several Latin American countries and would eventually lead Latin America Division at the CIA before transitioning over to CTC right after 9/11 where he served as the Division’s Chief Operating Officer (a title he made up in true Agency fashion) and then was tapped to lead CTC just months after the invasion of Afghanistan.
Jose has a fantastic book titled “Hard Measures: How Aggressive CIA Actions After 9/11 Saved American Lives” which recounts not only some of the innovative HUMINT ops he ran as a CO (like his ability to use horses to gain access), but also some of the incredibly challenging decisions he made at the highest levels of the CIA, including the creation of the Enhanced Interrogation program.
This was a really special episode for me given Jose’s role and history at the Agency and hope you enjoy a glimpse behind the curtain of one of the most secretive organizations from someone who went from the bottom to the very top as much as I did.
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- Intro Song: Sport Rock from Audio Jungle
Find Jose Rodriguez Online:
- Learn more about Jose en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Ro...)
- Hard Measures book: a.co/d/hkicr4h
Show Notes:
00:00 - Intro
00:41 - Guest Introduction (Jose Rodriguez)
01:59 - Interview begins
03:14 - Senior Leadership of the CIA
06:45 - Childhood
10:55 - Coming to the U.S. for the first time
13:20 - Interviewing for the CIA
17:38 - Fighting diversity in the Agency
19:05 - The importance of writing
21:30 - Deputy Director of Operations
30:58 - The relationship between Case Officers
33:02 - Becoming a good writer
34:48 - Loosing an Agent
37:55 - Becoming Chief of Station
42:47 - Tactics used to inspire
44:25 - First time in combat enviornment
48:18 - The feeling going into CTC
56:50 - Restructuring the CIA
01:10:26 - Challenges of Controversy
01:17:25 - CIA casualties
01:26:00 - Complexity of CIA operations
01:41:50 - Afterthoughts on the CIA
01:52:15 - Miss most from the Agency
01:55:00 - Would you do it again
01:56:18 - Closing thoughts
01:58:59 - Listener comments and shout outs

[@borod5571]

Thank You Dad for everything you did.

[@ColKurtzknew]

Your dad is an amazing man as I'm sure you know

[@vivek27789]

Your dad is a legend.🙏

[@colinmccavitt1]

Know Jose super well. Great guy and a real American hero.

[@jerrygoldfuss466]

Great episode, wow what a career. I served with LT Spann in Okinawa L 3/12 in '94-'95. He was a great guy. I was in guns plt and LT Spann was in HQ plt. I was a gung ho boot PFC, one day I had to help HQ platoon on a working party, I ask LT Spann if he was a lifer since he was an officer,I figured he would say yes. I was dumbfounded when he told me he wanted to get out and get into the CIA. I was deeply saddened to hear that he was the first American killed in the war on terror.

[@rumcayislandcaribbean8546]

54:18 🤣 slip of the tongue buddy? haha

[@enyskept]

😮

[@mugshotmarley]

"North Pakis...Afghanistan"

[@paradiddlediddle8630]

I was a Huey crew chief in Central America during the 80’s wars when Jose was involved down there.

[@mariomartinez8723]

As a Honduran, American citizen, I thank you for your service.

[@user-rz1ik4cq6j]

And ? You want a GI JOE badge for knowing him ? What is your point exactly ?

[@chrisbentleywalkingandrambling]

We owe this guy a lot. Thank you for your service. Both of you.

[@ck3082]

For?

[@bro-bh5kj]

This man tortured Camarena for those who dont know!

[@catsforhire9116]

​@@ck3082hard times call for hard measures. top tier terrorists who cause hard times were captured because of these hard measures.

[@JustSayingOL]

I love your podcast. I have gained so much from listening to veterans share their stories, mindsets, humour, humanity and capabilities. The irony of the antagonists is that they don't have to engage in any of the difficult and sometimes awful things they are so quick to judge from their comfortable suburbian banal bliss because of people like you and those you give a platform to share never mind the thousands of voiceless who will not be known... Shout-out from South Africa .

[@ck3082]

Sorry we dont appreciate being lied to by people like Jose into a bs 20 year wasteless war

[@kengills5174]

I served as the US Marine Detachment Commander of the Marine Security Guard Detachment US Embassy Panama City, Panama with Jose. I was a GySgt at the time with Jose. We served under Ambassador Deane Hinton. Jose Rodriguez is a wonderful person and an incredible professional. Semper Fi!

[@wendylabonte9330]

Such an insightful pocast..Jose is a very intelligent man who we should be so grateful thT he was in office when he was. The gov. And president should have their ass kicked for not supporting him...thank you Jose for your dedication and service!

[@edwardb7811]

Jose is a people person. One indicator is that he is universally known by his first name, even though he attained a rank equivalent to a four-star general. People who meet him like him. He realizes loyalty is a two-way street. He protects people and doesn't let them be thrown to the wolves. He knows how to get the best out of people. He had to make quick decisions under intense pressure when there were no easy options. These decisions saved countless lives, in the United States and elsewhere. There were officials, in both the legislative and executive branches, who initially urged hm to pull out all stops, but later tried to second-guess him and said he went too far and crossed the line. Some of those same officials had been briefed on, and approved, his plans to combat terrorists, but later denied that they had ever been briefed on and approved those plans. Jose is a modest man who would be embarrassed by my praise, but I have to state that he is a true American hero and patriot.

[@klk1900]

I’ve always liked Jose’s work. So I think I should put in context for the younger people so you understand the mindset we were in after 9/11. WE WERE SO PISSED OFF WE WOULDVE INVADED CANADA! So on the questionable ENHANCED IG TECHNIQUES; you have no idea how easy it was to support that. I say this for younger generations should you find yourself in the same position. You will be so angry you will support things that ultimately will create more enemies! You gotta stay levelheaded, don’t fall in that emotional trap! -- unfortunately we created so many enemies in the middleeast regarding Gbay, black sites, Iraqi prisoner abuse, etc. that pissed off the few people that supported us. It basically confirmed everything osama bin laden told them. - so just always keep that in mind. NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU THINK YOUR PROBLEM IS, YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE IT WORSE! (Via knee jerk reactions)

[@leeming1317]

8:45 this is what terrifies me where I fear going, Having been in similar situation, That fear, distrust, This citizen stocked the egg carton backwards, he must be a spy, I hope its just my ill-conceived nightmares from the past, not a moment of clairvoyance of a coming future

[@leeming1317]

I haven't been able to watch your stories for awhile, I want you to know i appreciate these videos even if I can't get them to right away, I want also thank you for highlighting roles female warriors have in our armed forces, and that we too can get into the thick of the fight and support our amazing ground pounders! 💪

[@davidhalbleib5040]

Always interesting and insightful. Thank you.

[@leeming1317]

11:35 I'm happy he found the place marked "Church" My boys seemed to have mistook that sigh as "KEG" 🤣

[@johnmoore9404]

Another great episode, gives you different view of the past events and things that happened.

[@acd617]

Another fantastic guest and interview. Ty

[@leeming1317]

16:30 YESSSS! Adapt Improvise Overcome

[@leandromarques4927]

Mr.rodrigez thanks for your contribution and your advices .

[@leandromarques4927]

Mr ,Rodriguez , thanks for your contribution for The peace and safety of the EUA and Europe.

[@edwardb7811]

Great interview! Jose cares about his people.

[@titanium7992]

Hard Measures ordered after watching this episode.

[@terryboyer1342]

I ordered it too. But also ordered The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government.

[@indy500tabasco8]

Good interview

[@carlostoro9949]

Amazing interview!!! Thank you!

[@mikefry9920]

Thank you Jose

[@fishstickbio594]

Love this podcast ! 🔥🔥🇺🇸👏

[@leeming1317]

13:20 This is awesome! I like from what I gather, Immigrant family, aspiring son to reach for stars, to agency, like it sounds so cryptic, but like kids say "FULL SEND" These stories are so awesome!

[@OBXBeaches]

Truly amazing career.

[@randytrite862]

God bless you both for your excellent service and for doing many amazing things to keep our country safe and the thousands of lives that you likely saved in the many years you both served! God Bless you both!

[@lesserlogic9977]

Wow, I have so much more insight

[@dichebach]

Would have loved to hear this gentleman's views on the rot that afflicts the FBI.

[@WjB_96792]

Pretty sure he would steer clear of politics which is what your referencing. A republican talking point that has no basis in fact. The career people at the fbi continue to do their jobs in accordance with and the enforcement of the rule of law, free of political considerations and bias. Beware of political clowns that denegrade the free press and law enforcement agencies and de-legitimize them because they fear their work. Anyone that believes such blatant attempts to manipulate the population is a classic sheep being led around by his nose.

[@DianaKazimiera-]

Great respect Mr.Jose Rodriguez BOWS ! 🕊️ I wish all the best for CIA🇺🇸 Legents #Elite

[@adamsilkwood4850]

Oh Hell Yea

[@lesserlogic9977]

Mr BAllen has an incredible knack for the art of telling a creepy story.. Be ready!

[@marlonvinicius7724]

My dream is to move to the USA and be able to enter a country with such a beautiful history, and be part of the American army and also the CIA, carrying out irregular war operations in other countries, and leaving Brazil for good, which is becoming an increasingly communist country. I have military knowledge, I served the Eb with the FAl 7.62, MAG pistols... I'm studying a lot of English for a day if I'm lucky to be recruited.

[@paranormalwithdave]

I cannot believe this only got 23k views deserves 230k

[@lisakurkowski9131]

Great one😊

[@xorksantamonica5183]

asi que viviste en buga...saludos desde colombia

[@WjB_96792]

Incredible story. A rare glimpse into an exemplary career at the cia and a true legend among his peers! Thanks to all who made this interview happen and to you tube for providing the medium with which such stories can be told and enjoyed by the unwashed masses! Mahalo nui!

[@jonathanray83]

Rough Riders Ride Or Die Good, Sir. Rock of The Marne Sir CottonBalers For Life Jose ❤🐎🐎🤠🤠

[@bryoncooley5156]

First thing’s first, thank you for your service sir 🙏Were you involved or even familiar with the Kiki Camarena case?

[@bro-bh5kj]

Thats a dumb question YES he tortured and killed him obviously he's not gonna talk about it being that he's CIA

[@johnconover52]

I know him and I’m better for it!

[@ahsanmohammed1]

1:08:00 Any parallels between the enhanced interrogation, (aka, torture), and the South American policing and criminal culture? Lebanese origin General Abizayd and Abu Ghurayb culture. Not to forget, they were chosen by some people. For this? 🤔

[@mariomartinez8723]

As a Latin American, I can tell that you need to do your homework. You need to read up some more on “South American policing and criminal torture. More often than not, the taken simply disappeared. Their families had no rights or means to decry whatever may have happened to them. There were no political rivals to demand inquests into their deaths. Whatever passes as their versions of “the press”, they were silent. What you refer to did not become a political issue. They simply disappeared or their bodies were found without explanations ever being provided. Those lucky to have lived were silent, for decades. The attempt at a comparison is only an option because America holds itself to a higher standard and allows freedom of the press, making the comparison possible.

[@camosquid5114]

Great podcast. Thank u to Ryan and Director Rodriguez.

[@leeming1317]

15:30 I love this point, basically screening for highest english proficiency, I feel like China has a flooded market and can just purchase info highest bidder, We've... I gather a lot of cash we can go around, we should do the same for info gathering, I don't want to miss-out because there's a bar set to do this! When we have Cap't'n kirk equivalents who may be able to bend the rules to accomplish an impossible mission. I don't think i have right words to describe my senitment

[@7777osunajoe]

HI ' I Loved the whole story and how it was presented " I have to ask if you can ask him if he ever met my Uncle ' who has been with the agency for more than 30 years as well ' he was also an Airforce Commando , with several Commendations and medals ' he was also in Latin America for most of his career. I am actually surprised he hasn't been on before ' his name is Samuel Osuna From Richmond, Texas and our family is forever proud and respectful to him " thanks

[@Muma_M]

Josh Brollin in tha Company🎉

[@gunsnsails]

Wow. That is all. Just... Wow.

[@RamadiTaxiDriver60M]

RIP Southside. 12/29/09

[@leeming1317]

Even the perfect fantasy benches will have their downfalls, Preach Jose Rodriguez 🙌

[@kelvintorres2675]

🙏🔥🙏

[@rudolphvaleriano1578]

Check out Felix Rodriguez also Pappy’s boys

[@gunnar4554]

Jose the torturer, yes?

[@edgargomez5599]

so this is the guy ol boy talks about then huh?

[@matt-mw5kr]

Bravo Zulu 🌟

[@Budrob998]

Sad part is he only should have to tell this “explanation “ of the facts one time and stuff should have been changing real quick , yet he feels he has to stress it , sad

[@KabbalahredemptionBlogspot]

He should teach leadership at West Point

[@user-rz1ik4cq6j]

You mean torture with impunity ??

[@promokk]

Definitely the HUMAN RESOURCE GUY! SHESH....

[@bradalan7188]

⛩

[@Northstar-Media]

The man from Del monte he say yes 🎉 His mother liked the milkmans milk 🥛 💦

[@Rodzilla5332]

I've listened to every episode on Spotify and love it. HOWEVER I'm curious as to why, when you have a guy like this on, to not ask how they feel about the IC now turning all their powers on Americans. Calling parents that go to school board meetings violent extremists. Labeling patriotic groups like Mike Glover's "DVE's" or domestic violent extremist. Partnering with big tech to censor speech of half of the country. That's why you get a different reaction from your military service when you tell people what you've done. I don't know why. Maybe you agree with it. Maybe not. It was an opportunity.

[@michaelsamuel9917]

All this time I thought he was Cuban?

[@conventionaldudetactics5564]

Felix Rodriguez is the Cuban CIA officer you are probably thinking of.

[@michaelsamuel9917]

@@conventionaldudetactics5564 Yes Thanks for the correction.

[@conventionaldudetactics5564]

@@michaelsamuel9917 absolutely brother, we are all trying to learn.

[@michaelsamuel9917]

@@conventionaldudetactics5564 Yeah I liked how the Cuban guy was instrumental in capturing Che, he got what was coming to him after those bastards murdered thousands of ppl in Cuba mostly poor folks.

[@jajajajaitschris1950]

wasn’t this the guy who PLOTTED on kiki’s kidnapping in Mexico!?!!!?!

[@MR-nl8xr]

What happened to Kiki was so F ed up. So many Soldiers get sold out by the higher ups. i wonder if Jose knows anything about Project monarch.

[@conventionaldudetactics5564]

No, that would Felix Rodriguez, a Cuban. I would love to find out if they knew each other though.

[@lindawatinie441]

A55hole

[@weinerdog137]

Torture. Not my hero. Crime.

[@mariomartinez8723]

Would it still be a crime if you and your loved ones had been meant to travel in one of those 11 planes that were NOT blown up?

[@bro-bh5kj]

I wouldn't be surprised if this man has an ulcer growing for what he did! What goes around comes around

[@user-rz1ik4cq6j]

You are actually the first comment who makes me smile ! Thank you for that. Everybody here is praising him like some saint

[@spiritualsoulconsciousness4566]

These CIA people should be sorry for all the poverty, death and destruction caused and continue to cause with their illegal interventions around the world, something if they have insurance, a reserved space in hell?!

[@boomerang_911]

Had no interest in hearing a two hour video. First minute in, captured by the humbleness of Jose Rodriguez, I listened to the whole thing, and I am overwhelmed with how lucky America was to have this man in service during a very critical time. 🫡

[@fernandolabrada8456]

Thanks to men like Jose Rodriguez we can all enjoy the freedoms our great republic offers. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE! 🇺🇸🫡

[@bro-bh5kj]

He killed a fellow American! A real American born citizen not a war criminal who worked w the CIA to avoid prosecution