Former Shin Bet Chief - Ami Ayalon discusses the Gaza War, Peace, Hannibal and more.

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Күн бұрын

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@documentdocument5096 3 ай бұрын

honestly, I was really excited to listen to him. Unfortunately I don't think he said anything meaningful or of substance the entire hour. It was a lot of "we should do better" and "we didn't understand". As an israeli would say - there was no "tachles". It's the same critique I have with Lapid in the nytimes interview a few months back or Olmert on haaretz podcast - there's a lot of critique on the government but they don't address root problem, which is culture and the story the palestinians tell themselves. That's why Haviv's lectures at Shalem College are so good. I know I commented on this before, but you really need to get Dan Schueftan. He's so blunt, serious and at the same time hilarious (full of israeli and Jewish jokes) - a perfect mix of politics and comedy

@alwise3963 3 ай бұрын

Dan scheuftan is awesome. After reading your comment, I found him on KZbin. Wow. He should definitely be a guest.

@joge2468 3 ай бұрын

@@documentdocument5096 I’ve recommended Dan for months, to no avail. I can’t get enough of that man. I would like to hear something new from him though, but Noam isn’t great at interview prep. Don’t you find Gur a bit myopic? He thinks he’s discovered a unified field theory - and he’s not funny, which is off-putting in a Jew. 😉

@geek321 3 ай бұрын

I totally agree about haviv's lectures...

@shap987 3 ай бұрын

@@joge2468I'm not familiar with Dan, so I plan to look him up. But Noam doesn't do interview prep? There are criticisms he's guilty of, but that isn't one of them.

@JLP4444 3 ай бұрын

I listened to Haviv's lecture on how Palestinians see things and was a bit put off by the line that Palestinians see Zionists as instruments of the British because the British are the ones who stopped the Nazis from annihilating Jews. At what point does adopting a pose of just neutrally "trying to understand" reflect an unhealthy unwillingness to make judgements? We don't say "oh, but you have to understand, the KKK felt threatened by blacks since they refused to be enslaved and make KKK members money"

@joge2468 3 ай бұрын

Both Miri Eisen and Dan Schueften would offer challenging responses to Ayalon’s views. Noam, you would love Dan. He’s the quintessential secular Ashkenazi. Funny as hell. Einat Wilf would be a great guest too. I have to say, it was super bizarre to hear someone claim he understands the Palestinian perspective and then proffer an interpretation vastly different from pretty much all other ‘experts’ on the Middle East. I do agree, however, that the U.S. is pretty much clueless. Wilf has coined the term “westplaining” for how western countries explain the conflict.

@alwise3963 3 ай бұрын

Agree that Dan scheuftan would be an amazing guest

@GandalfMrPotter 3 ай бұрын

@@alwise3963 Einat repeatsthe same - one argument: Palestinians want all of israel.

@joge2468 3 ай бұрын

@@GandalfMrPotter Ultimately, they all repeat one argument. But, someone really knowledgeable on the subject, should be able to directly respond to Ayalon’s specific claims. The interviewer would need to keep them tightly on topic.

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

@@joge2468May be Benni Moris

@joge2468 3 ай бұрын

@@jennybravo7019 This isn’t his area.

@christophgriener9852 2 ай бұрын

Isn't the headquarter of the IDF in Tel Aviv, surrounded by civilians?.

@catch451 3 ай бұрын

You people are just wonderful. I love the conversations you have, the topics you discuss, the humor you display. Please keep it up;).

@GandalfMrPotter 3 ай бұрын

The best pod/interview i've seen so far...and i've seen them ALL. So much knowledge, and the most objective i've seen so far, which came as a huge surprise given his career and life experiences.

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

He is such because of this career and life experience, not despite of them. Those people are ones we should listen to and not know nothing clowns.

@adaptiveagile 3 ай бұрын

Objectivity shouldn't at all come as a surprise. Israel his diverse opinions from far left to far right, and many in the security establishment--from the Mossad and Shabak to the IDF--have similar, or even stronger views than Ayalon.

@GandalfMrPotter 3 ай бұрын

@@jennybravo7019 bravo bravo

@veralevy7036 2 ай бұрын

Where has the shin Bet Been on seventh October it was them who said that everything is all right and agree to let the party where all these young people died just happened. It was them who said it is safe and everything is OK.

@JLP4444 3 ай бұрын

Just a comment on guest selection--I get the sense that critics of Israel have so flooded the zone with frequent repetition of critiques that there's this default assumption that conventional views are biased toward Israel. But what if there's an element of the opposite--that conventional views are biased against? I'd like to hear from someone from the right, like Gadi Taub, who can make a robust, reasoned case for many conservative positions that tend to get demonized in US.

@chronicalIyoffline 2 ай бұрын

Maybe go listen to Ben Shapiro or watch some of the talking heads pierce morgan had on about this topic? Ben is a platform self admitted to catering specifically to a conservative audience and Ben & several other conservative online channels I’ve watched specifically avoid having expert guests on for that exact reason. It’s more for expressing opinion and going with data that can be found on google no matter how accurate or not. Not really great places for learning (especially accurate learning) but if you’re looking for like minded individuals to validate your feelings/views that you’re on the right side of history then you’re far more likely to find it from right wing commentators than from interviews with historians, military personnel, investigative journalists, professors, Palestinian refugees, etc. If you want something to show you the views of this generations American Jews watch the documentary called Israelism I believe is the name. If you want expert interviews on this topic I have a ton of recommendations for that too but if you didn’t like this episode you may not be interested

@boris5926 3 ай бұрын

please speak with einat wilf i am pretty sure she will rebuke everything he says..

@GandalfMrPotter 3 ай бұрын

she repeats one argument: they want all of israel.

@boris5926 3 ай бұрын

@@GandalfMrPotter do you think its not a valid argument ?

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

Because she knows better?

@kaderdoukoure3509 3 ай бұрын

@noam did he change your perspective of the many certitudes you seem to hold?

@kaderdoukoure3509 3 ай бұрын

@ElishevaLeibovici 3 ай бұрын

Israeli listening. Thank you for this interview

@Govinda_005 3 ай бұрын

This guy is fanatical lunatic

@2345piratesurfin 2 ай бұрын

why?

@khanaafaq6202 2 ай бұрын

Because he spoke the truth

@soma7581 2 ай бұрын

Are all the other ex Mossad heads with similar views / regrets lunatics too?..

@hookmuiyb 2 ай бұрын

US did not define or discuss the political goal in Iraq till the end of the Iraq war..This guy is not really bothered about impact of october 7th. He just want to defeat a political opponent.

@najmagulled6540 2 ай бұрын

wow! i dismissed this interview thinking it was a biased- talking point which has become a mainstay in the channel BUTThis surprised me...the OLD man is soo pragmatic even learned why Fatah is hated and seen as collaborators!

@PDM1967 3 ай бұрын

This is a fantastic interview. Couldn’t care less that its a “comedy channel”. Thanks.

@bryanmurray9846 2 ай бұрын

Noam, do you guys take down comments? I think Ive had at least half a dozen removed.

@sandy_of_jox 2 ай бұрын

I just wrote one in a generally positive emotional vein and it didn't even appear, just - Zip! vanished into the ether. I believe KZbin picks up certain key words in certain combos and just goes "nope! No free thinking for you, sunshine!" It's happened frequently on posts about this conflict - I don't think it's the creators nuking the comments mosta the time, but rather the bots.

@izzykhach 3 ай бұрын

Ayalon's attempt at depicting a moral equivalence between the Israeli and Palestinian sides in terms of desire for peace and a willingness to negotiate is disingenuous. He is the reason that there is no longer a political left in Israel.

@everythingandmore5537 3 ай бұрын

As the ex director pointed out, Israel must remain a Jewish state. The Palestinian side wanted a 2 state solution, one 100% Palestinian state and the other Israel, a state of all its people. Thus, no more a Jewish state. That's the core of the issue. The reluctance of the Arafat to recognize a Jewish state. Arafat recognize Israel as a state of all its people without zionism and thus the right of return of Palestinian refugees.

@kiswindsidaguigma9261 2 ай бұрын

What guy is saying is pure logic. There are an estimated 7 million jews and estimated 7 million arabs on the land. Palestinians are living orientalist live, making lot of babies, while the laic jews live western lifesty, making less babies. So if the problem is not solved, in the future you will have more arabs than jews. If this gap reach a certain point, arabs will be the dominant party. It's that simple.

@lucabonaccorsi1526 2 ай бұрын

The enemy is the occupation

@Home4Facts Ай бұрын

Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro would be a great guest to have on. Also, Noam you claim to be Jewish but don’t believe in God or practice Judaism. So it begs the question, what makes you Jewish?

@christophgriener9852 5 күн бұрын

@@Home4Facts What is Jewish about gay parades and sodomizing prisoners? Are those Jewish traditions like spitting on nuns that Ben Gvir approves of? Weren't Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed for such things (obviously not the last tradition with spitting on nuns)? Is disregard for the taking of innocent lives Jewish? Is it Jewish to provoke war or to corrupt other nations' governments? I hope not and that if Jews commit such crimes and betrayal, that they're condemned and held responsible by Jews everywhere. Confirming the old stereotypes in front of the whole world is dangerous and innocent people will suffer because of it (their suffering being used to justify further suffering...).

@geek321 3 ай бұрын

Would be interesting to hear Haviv Rettig gur response to some of Ayalon's statements regarding Camp David and Olmert's plan.

@mikekimveteran 12 күн бұрын

Thanks for having him on. Ami is right. He is one of the best military analysts. I do not agree with everything he says but he is dead on re. "Political Horizon." This is how the hardcore FARC in the Colombian 30 year war were able to drummed out from the peasant revolution.... This is how things improved in Iraq when I was there. The political horizon is the only path for peace. Political possibilities in the populace must be seen by the masses. Look at the hardcore Viet Cong , they were eventually weeded out of the Vietnamese Communists. This guy is a retired Admiral and was an Israeli Navy SEAL. He graduated from the Harvard JFK School. And, he was Director of the Israeli Spy Program. He has lots of combat experience going way back. He deserves to be listened to... Incredible mind.... He is so right about the Vietnam War. Sun Tzu... taught we understand the enemy after we understand ourselves.

@YogaladyToronto 3 ай бұрын

From 33.08 min., Mr. Ayalon presented a very frank and realistic perspective, IMO. Externally interesting interview!

@Tori57 2 ай бұрын

Read which website for explanation of Hamas strategy? Couldn't understand the word(s)

@sarahk93882 2 ай бұрын

Frustrated that he was asked about whether he believes and failed to do give a clear answer. Overall fantastic interview for many points regarding past conflicts

@p.berlondon 3 ай бұрын

Well thank God you’re going to think about it. We all have a claim on all lands everywhere. And the converse is equally true. It doesn’t belong to any of us.

@marikaoconnor5058 3 ай бұрын

Human nature? Defined by self-interest and personal survival. A miracle when occasional agreement is reached. Pray for both sides.

@katjarectenwald1840 3 ай бұрын

I second best podcast I‘ve seen so far. Gotta read his book.

@winetamer 2 ай бұрын

Excellent as always. You should consider trying to speak with both Einat Wilf and Tzipi Livni who will give you very different perspectives on the Palestinian narrative.

@waddahElyemen 2 ай бұрын

As soon as he said command center under hospital he lost his relationship with reality

@christiansmith-of7dt 2 ай бұрын

The soil out here is like concrete , you dont bury black pipe in concrete , it will just wrought out

@givemepinkveg 3 ай бұрын

Izenkot is not in the war cabinet unfortunately

@retepelyod 3 ай бұрын

God help us.

@christiansmith-of7dt 2 ай бұрын

Just put it up on some six inch redwood blocks so the thing doesnt rot out and cut down the two risers about a foot , the guy who brought out the propane tank brought out some p e pipe if it was going to be buried underground , i dont know if they bury black pipe in mariposa county , but they never let me bury that crap in southern california

@Ldanels 2 ай бұрын

Very insightful

@CA-we6rq 3 ай бұрын

This is the difference though. Most Israelis and "Jews" can accept their failures and responsibilities in causing or potentially softening this conflict. The other side doesn't. Who are saying things like this on the other side? Unless self-criticism is a wide practice in the Arab world, and this just seem like a big waste of time. And I am not saying that we should only use the language of middle east region. Power and violence. That is not the world everyone wants. I am a Christian, and I see the same phenomenon in most Western nations. Can we only criticise ourselves?

@khadimndiaye7730 3 ай бұрын

This generalization is exactly the problem. As Ami Ayalon is saying: on both sides are reasonable voices and extreme voices, and currently on both sides the extreme voice is leading. This should make you wonder, why the west is listening only to the extreme voice of one side and fabricates a one sided narrative. As a reasonable voice on the other side, that got marginalized in the global debate, you always are confronted with the extreme narrative of the opponent. This is the kind of discussion that is going on. How do you expect a marginalized reasonable voice to react, when it is confronted with insane arguments like: "you are all the same, you are at fault for the conflict, you are Hamas, you don't deserve to live on your land, its fair that Israel is taking it from you, you are not human" As an reasonable marginalized voice its a totally different situation than for Ami Ayalon, who's land is not either totally destroyed or occupied and diminished. To empathize, you first need to understand: the other one is a human being just like you, and that he got to his ideas because of the narratives in which he was born into and the opponents of his narratives he has to face. Meaning everyone has his reasons. There are many moderate voices on the Palestinian side in the US, in UK, even in Israel, that would happily agree that Hamas is super bad, but Netanyahu's government that keeps on expanding the settlements is part of the root cause of the problem, but than they are labelled antisemites, at least here in Germany.

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

Follow Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib, and you'll see Palestinian equivalent of the pragmatic Israeli left.

@c3p024 3 ай бұрын

@@khadimndiaye7730 who exactly are saying these words that you included in "quotation marks", other than the straw man that you have created in your mind? You have no clue how far back the violence in the Syria-Palestine is. It is the default.

@khadimndiaye7730 3 ай бұрын

@@c3p024 conservatives here in Germany unfortunately …

@khadimndiaye7730 2 ай бұрын

@@c3p024 you can also watch Pierce Morgan, that is arguably inviting the most diverse group of ppl discussing this argument. Admittedly it’s not an intellectual format but it’s the tone of the general debate in the western world

@nihadhamid8584 2 ай бұрын

Valuable information but he needs to deliver it without saying useless sound like Aaah It’s quite irritating actually.

@ADag83 3 ай бұрын

This is what Israeli optimism looks like 😢

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

How does your optimism look like?

@ADag83 3 ай бұрын

@jennybravo7019 I'm not sure why my longer posts keep getting swallowed up. Does KZbin filter out words like "peace" and "two state solution" and "I agree"?

@meshzzizk 2 ай бұрын

@@ADag83 fwiw i'm a compulsive yt commenter, my comments disappear or get hidden all the time, and i have never been able to determine any clear rhyme or reason for it (i.e. why some instantly vanish and others don't). i frequently glance at comment sections under videos and see, e.g., a one-word comment that's just a well known racial slur in the standard spelling. apparently that's fine! but if i take the time to engage the substance of the video by dashing off two short paragraphs with complete sentences, it will set off some mysterious filter and no one will see my post. totally maddening.

@denisewhorms2508 Ай бұрын

I cannot believe he didn't answer the question about Oslo. He didn't because it has always been a lie.

@marinasalganik2417 2 ай бұрын

Invite current not ex leaders Ex leaders are partial and subjective to defend their previous actions

@Liberty-rn4wy 2 ай бұрын

It should be pointed out that Mr. Ayalon is a Labor Party member, in other words politically leftwing.

@tttrrrification 3 ай бұрын

Most Israelis consider this guy a joke

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

Well, those idiots who consider Netanyahu as decent person or Ben Gvir/ Smotrich as serious and wise people, they probably think that Amy Ayalon is a joke. And we all can witness where these idiots lead us to. But hopefully, they aren't "most of the Israelis" at this point.

@sandy_of_jox 2 ай бұрын

Could you, or someone, possibly tell us nosy outsiders why? I found him a little frustrating in a similar way to Norm Finkelstein, but I can't quite put my finger on it, apart from the vague feeling he might be more interested in selling copy now he's been retired from the service for 25 years.

@tttrrrification 2 ай бұрын

@@sandy_of_jox I can give a few points. He isn't serving for a long time now but still thinks he knows how everything works. In general we know our systems and a lot of the people who get to the top are not top people they are just good politicians. So his credentials are less impressive than they sound to begin with. He is part of a big minority of "experts" who try to blame everything on Bibi Netanyahu. Whatever happens is somehow Bibi's fault. Disregarding that Bibi might have the toughest job in the world, I mean it's a small country surrounded by enemies, 2 million Arab citizens, refugees coming in, academics leaving for better salaries in the US, not rich with natural resources, the UN is objectively against Israel, etc. etc.

@2345piratesurfin 2 ай бұрын

your mother probably views you the same way

@samuelgoldring9691 3 ай бұрын

Israel accepted the 1947 UN 2 state plan while the Arabs said no ,only an Arab state no Jewish state. Islamists were taught and teach others that Allah’s honor would be degraded if an infidel state were allowed to exist. On the other hand the Jewish position divide the land so each people will have something.

@adamali2599 3 ай бұрын

BS ! ..... If they accepted the "border of 1947", so why the fuck don't they just take their share and leave the rest alone ? why do they have to play as if they own the entier earth, so they give to whome they want and refuse to whome they don't want ? ..... And since when does the UN start to create countries? UN doesn't own one single meter of land to give it to anyone

@jennybravo7019 3 ай бұрын

You should tell this all to Ayalon as he probably knows less than you do.

@christophgriener9852 2 ай бұрын

What right did the UN have to take people's land and give part of it to others? The Palestinians had been under the Ottoman yoke for centuries and when they finally are free of it, someone else wants to treat them even worse and drive half of them off their land and no guarantee that the other half wouldn't also be taken later. Even more Christian Palestinians were driven off their land relative to their percentage of the population than Mohammedans and Jewish Palestinians protested the establishment of a Zionist state as well. By the way Israel was founded in 1948, so it couldn't accept anything in 1947, although the ethnic cleansing and terrorist activities of the Zionists started earlier.

@2345piratesurfin 2 ай бұрын

why would someone give up their home to invaders? Go accept your historic homeland in europe. Its not your land to break apart.

@meshzzizk 2 ай бұрын

in 1947 the arab view was that they should not have to abandon over half of their homeland to pay for the crimes of european antisemites. as a jew i find that view to be fairly understandable, especially given that the european powers which were trying to strong-arm the arabs into accepting partition were the same ones who'd ruled over the arab world as colonial empires for generations. the ottomans and british were finally gone and now the palestinian arabs are asked to give up 56% of their country because these foreign empires had so brutally persecuted the european jewry that the jews were determined to have a state of their own--somewhere else. and if islamists are taught to reject "infidel states" then you have to explain why iran and russia are such close allies. aren't the russians infidels too? isis seems to think so. and yet... but here's the most important reason what you're saying is just not serious: the israelis conquered the west bank and east jerusalem in 1967, and immediately set about building settlements in these illegally occupied territories. and they've only doubled down on this project of settling the land which international law and all prior land-for-peace initiatives designate as the territory of what should be an independent palestinian state. if the israelis had the slightest intention of ever given the palestinians their own country on that land it makes no earthly sense that they'd relentlessly continue to build and expand and slice up this territory, ensconcing it in security barriers to keep palestinians out of jewish areas with barbed wire and militarized fences. the closest israel ever came to having a leader willing to make peace through a two state settlement was yzhak rabin. but rabin 1. maintained until his very last speech that the olso talks would not result in a fully sovereign palestinian state but rather a "state minus" 2. was assassinated by a rightwing israeli zealot, of whom there are many more in power today than there were back then.

@dinasule4673 2 ай бұрын

7:58 🤡 is asking who's the enemy? For starters, those babies in incubators left to die, 355 bullets on a 6 year old? Hind??? This is the END my beautiful friend. The world is watching 👀

@poetibtisam687 3 күн бұрын

So strange. Always talking about Palestinians, and what they said or didn't say. But not talking with Palestinians directly and hearing them directly. I was shocked that the director of the secret service of Israel did not know that Palestinians had a Palestinian narrative until after 20 years from 1967 and when the Intifada (Palestinian uprising) started. Did he ever look at a map of Palestine before 1948? It is in all world maps.. Did he know that the Palestinian territories are illegally occupied by Israel according to International law? The same law that created Israel? Did he know about the tens of UN resolutions about Israeli occupation? Seriously strange . . Israel does not need to negotiate peace and such. It needs to abide by UN resolutions that are sitting there for over half a century... but they want to negotiate in order to give as less as possible than there is in the UN resolutions. . . basically cheating on the law. . . And the sad part is that everyone pays for this dishonesty, everyone in the world . . . End the Israeli occupation of Palestine . . not in 40 years from now, but 57 years ago already, plus reparations and right of return and a host of things that are needed to indeed grant Palestinians freedom and full human rights. They are not human animals as the war-cabinet member said.. They are a people living under the longest lasting military occupation in the world.. Please speak with Palestinians directly. Enough of ghosting them. Thanks!

@LaMariposafer 2 ай бұрын

Comedy cellar USA. Right on.

@teresabock2532 2 ай бұрын

🤍🇮🇱🌼🇧🇷🙏

@Liberty-rn4wy 2 ай бұрын

Mr.Ayalon said that before Oct. 7, 2023, only 30% of Palestinians supported Hamas. According to the Washington Institute, it was 57% who said they had a slightly positive view of Hamas. And let's not forget that Hamas was elected by the people of Gaza.

@marinasalganik2417 2 ай бұрын

Blaming politicians oh well Nice trick

@Mr---mr4ll 2 ай бұрын

😂 he looks very very very indigenous to the Middle East

@michaelkelemenToronto Ай бұрын

The beginning was very slow but in the end it was really interesting. You should have him back and grill him a little harder. He gave reasons why the Palestinians rejected the peace offers. But he never provided the sense that they really had a passion for it themselves and would come up with counter offers rather than decide that diplomacy was useless and launch the second intifada which is one of your perennial issues.

@bettymulders7641 3 ай бұрын

Than you think it is a religious war?

@cpg-fx7ew 3 ай бұрын

It's not a religious war

@gg_rider 2 ай бұрын

@@cpg-fx7ew Palis say it's NOT about borders or peace. Palis say it's an existential war to annihilate Yehuda and for eternity in Jannah. Are you implying Palis are LYING about holy war for holy land?

@cpg-fx7ew 2 ай бұрын

@@gg_rider It's not a war for a holy land, idiot. Different narratives emerge among different factions during conflicts. Look up the PFLP- they have a completely secular motivation for their rebellion.

@Hassan-lx5kj 2 ай бұрын

FREE PALESTINE PEOPLE AND LAND FROM ZIONEST

@samuelgoldring9691 3 ай бұрын

Israel accepted the 1947 UN 2 state plan while the Arabs said no ,only an Arab state no Jewish state. Islamists were taught and teach others that Allah’s honor would be degraded if an infidel state were allowed to exist. On the other hand the Jewish position is sharevthe land so each people will have something.

@Norlimon 5 күн бұрын

Why would they say yes?

@imiljostruiken2176 2 ай бұрын

Isrealy kild thaer one prame minister ho wanted peace 😂😂😂

@adamflamm4444 2 ай бұрын

Great ar not answering questions.

@MrAdventurer1968 Ай бұрын

He is laying as his leadert

@rachelkeane331 2 ай бұрын

I think you need to change the name of your podcast. I adore the comedy cellar in NYC but this is no longer the appropriate name and people wont take you seriously as they should.

@Hassan-lx5kj 2 ай бұрын

FREE USA PEOPLE AND LAND FROM ZIONEST

@veralevy7036 2 ай бұрын

That guy is really shameful. Unbelievable how much Haiti is against Prime Minister Netanyahu was always right against the failure of these people for over 10 years

@kiswindsidaguigma9261 2 ай бұрын

This guy fought all Israel Wars. He risked and sacrified everything for Israel. And he's telling you his opinion from his experience. How many wars did you fight for Israel?