Comics Need Saving: Manga's Winning Secrets

[@ComicDrake]

A lot of folks seem to think that I am advocating for comics to be coming out on a weekly basis to emulate Shonen Jump and that is not true. In fact, you'll notice that in this video, I specifically said that American comics need to SLOW DOWN. The weekly model in Japan is absolutely brutal on its creators and frankly, it's extraordinarily unhealthy and takes advantage of them.

[@basco3332]

oh phew I found this video from a twitter post that went fairly viral saying that they knew this video would be annoying or something along those lines. I thought it'd be the same release weekly stuff but I also agree that it should take the shonen jump model but slow it down by A LOT. Similar to what Jump+ weekly (maybe some comic writers might actually want this to really push their comics to the frontlines at the start), bi-weekly, monthly, but maybe bi-monthly too. Anyway, glad to see that the tweet was a misunderstanding.

[@potatoemporer2174]

Damn@@basco3332

[@edocursedmark2693]

W topic

[@edocursedmark2693]

Manga just better

[@ComicDrake]

@@edocursedmark2693 And you're totally welcome to that opinion, no matter how close-minded it might be. A lot of great manga, but there's also a lot of shitty manga. There's a lot of great comics, there's also a lot of shitty comics.

[@GrandLineReview]

Manga influencer here. Can confirm that giving me $4500-$8000 to promote your comic is a good idea.

[@beef3442]

How has no one noticed your here

[@emperorluffy6001]

LOL

[@joshuamanlapaz9380]

Hi liam! Huge fan!!!! Ypu were the inspiration for me and my friends making an HxH roleplay DnD system

[@Elisandro2cool]

It’s the Dude in the Room!

[@jonathansherman2487]

This is like the filler where the strawhats and the z fighters met up

[@annache250]

As an old Gen Z, I knew way more kids who were into manga than western comics. The ability for a middle schooler to simply walk into their public/school library and start a new series at volume 1 (which had decent amount of content) created a whole generation of weebs.

[@shinyocelot04archive]

I tried that with my library but a majority of the starting volumes were in use. Nobody seems to want the Marvel trades aside from the occasional one off.

[@annache250]

@@shinyocelot04archiveVery true but many libraries let you reserve these titles. And also, it’s not very clear on where to start on a western comic title

[@RetroCinemaKingSpaceTheaters]

I just got into comics recently. Things like manga and manhwa have many advantages over American comics. Comics should try and make themselves more known to all ages. They should also try and give people more quality taste than manga.

[@shinyocelot04archive]

@@RetroCinemaKingSpaceTheaters Exactly. Even then the only stuff for general audiences released by Marvel consistently are the digest sized marvel masterworks to compete with manga. Yet I see manga in more places than comics. You'd think with how big the MCU is Disney would put trades in retail stores, but there's none. There's no advertisements for the comics at the movies either. Very weird.

[@kaison12205]

Same

[@wrenwry]

It’s absolutely insane that Marvel and DC movies don’t help promote the comics in any way at all. Even a simple “based on _______ comic” at the beginning or end of the movies would be massive for readership.

[@aetherkid]

Seriously. Thor: Ragnarok saying it was based on Planet Hulk, Love and Thunder saying it was based on Thunder in Her Veins, these would do well to get sales

[@JohnDoe______]

I think the problem is anime try to be more faithful adaptations so that once the anime season ends you can go and read the manga With comic book adaptations though they don’t so some feel like their is no point to continue reading

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

Didn't DC just start doing that with the new Superman show?

[@somecanadiangirl1]

This is what got me cautiously optimistic for James Gunn handling DC. Citing the specific comics he was drawing from. Those comics saw boosts in sales after that announcement.

[@_FoxHoleCharlie_]

That and opening weekend give out a "free" comic with a ticket. Even if it's 1% of movie goers that go to a shop, that's big numbers

[@marklafrancis253]

One thing not mentioned but I will always argue is manga’s greatest strength is consistency behind the product. Manga are USUALLY handled by a small team who follow a singular vision, with the main writing and art being from the same source. It’s not like western comics, where creatives shuffle in and out. Some western comics even have creatives come in just to fix the old teams failures instead of crafting their own story, which leads to more back and forth and so on. That’s one of the reasons books like Saga and invincible are so beloved, they have a consistent team. At this point I don’t see how the big 2 could pivot into a more consistent model, and honestly the manga business has proven itself to be a complete mess of abuse and crunch so its not like manga is perfect, but manga comes from passionate creatives who usually have a vision. They aren’t assigned books and told to make due as if the books themselves are ad copy.

[@zerohz]

the refusal to end a series causes some problem. Marvel and DC obviously don't wanna end their characters story and wanna keep it going on and on like some soap opera they are going in for almost a decade orignal creators of those characters are either dead or very old. It's hard to have a single team in such case where the coperate won't end the stories, marvel more so cuz they don't reboot very often. I get the appeal but it does alienate everyone involved. And copro greed doesn't allow for creative or risks that a single creative vision might have so they keep replacing them forever

[@richborn6700]

​@@zerohzthis so much. Spider-Man has been around over 60 years and only aged from 15 to about 28. I wish characters would be allowed to age. No way Batman can have so many sidekicks and only having been doing this about 25 years in story.

[@zerohz]

@@richborn6700 they are not trying to tell cohesive stories, are they? They want money and a true and tested formula that works to varying degree. Changing a character or status quo for too long is risky, people maybe or may not like it. And they can't risk it so will keep coming back to where they started. If they were making a one and done it might be different but they could just grow a bone too.

[@rollingwithstones]

You're absolutely correct. Like I said in my comment, the content is a bigger turn-off than the mode.

[@Deoxys911]

If it's higher quality we're looking for you can't really go wrong with giving passionate artists a high degree of creative control over their work, including when to conclude the story. It's too bad so much media is so highly made-by-committee these days.

[@OMACexperiment]

"Sale comics to kids, but only make it affordable for single adult men in their mid 20s to early 40s to afford" has been the business model for the last 20 years!

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

Late stage capitalism, baby 😎

[@notaraven]

The collectors bubble was probably the worst thing to happen to comics. Comics are meant to be disposable, work you can cut your teeth on and where audiences can see new ideas. Now stuff like webtoons are that medium.

[@skylopez2593]

Not all comics are meant for children anyways 😅. I didn’t start reading Western comics till 7th grade. There were some very mature scenes that I was probably too young to look at. Kids who can afford manga are probably scarred for life. Anime and manga isn’t really for children.

[@danielebowman]

Agree with all of this. Prices, endless crossovers and the collector bubble @@notaraven

[@TheRedCap30]

Literally me rn LMAO. I would have loved to get more into comics as a kid but I didn't want to drop a few dollars on one issue.

[@supervideomaker9136]

As a manga reader who loves comic characters, tbh I think the problem with comics is too fundamental. Like I have no problem with comics but I just can’t get into them. Mainly because I don’t know where to start and the stories never end. Like for example, Spider-man is my favorite character but he is never getting his happy ever after. The story is never going to end and that’s what I like about manga and indie comics, they have an ending to their story.

[@aba1design]

Definitely. Even with long series at least they are always going somewhere or building to something. Like One Piece for example it is still building on the same story it was 20 years ago. Everything still makes sense and you can just read issue 1 till current and it all makes sense and there is a end in sight.

[@TheSkaOreo]

With Super Hero books, you can't really read them like you would a regular indie comic or manga. Obviously Spider-man's story can't really end because the character is worth billions and a bunch of people would stop reading Marvel comics should Marvel provide a definitive end to his character. The best case scenario is to read through story arcs that are interesting from writers + artists you enjoy. Once you get over needing to know what's canon, it because a lot easier to make your way through the inconsistencies of the modern comic book. More importantly, many of these books are made specifically to act as a starting point for new readers, so you don't actually have to be aware of every little thing that has been happening within the canon. Basically: don't sweat it so much. Read what you like.

[@aba1design]

@@TheSkaOreo A lot of people have said that to me but I just don't think its a hurdle a lot of people can get over. Its like a story that restarts anytime anything happens. The anime equivalent would be a series of only filler. Its great some people still enjoy it like yourself. Which is awesome but honestly I think the industry as a whole is doomed if they keep going this way. A lot of sitcoms and American TV used to have a similar writing model where everything came back to status quo at the end of every eps. Even they have all had to change and adapt over the years because people get bored if nothing ever progresses or goes anywhere.

[@supervideomaker9136]

@@TheSkaOreo while this may be true, i think the general publci isn't really ok with this model which is why i think manga will always win over comics(and indie comics)

[@KamuiCage]

@@TheSkaOreo Marvel would make money form Spider man without actually having to make new comics. New fans would would still buy the books to read the same stories their parents or grandparents read year before them. Dragon Ball came out in 1984 kids born 30 years after that can walk into a store and read dragon ball from start to "finish" the Original Db story is still making money

[@unchartedchartz]

Remember when James Gunn talked about Grant Morrison's Batman run when announcing DCs slate, and the omnibus sold out the by like the next day? The movies are the way to get people into comics. There's so many people that love the movies and don't read comic books, they could put runs that inspired the movie at the beginning of the credits or something.

[@monty_coolmccool]

Also, complete side note, comic writers should be paid more if they are going to be taking from their runs anyways. Comics are a fantastic medium, and if they can spawn multi billion dollar franchises than the creatives should be paid and the comic runs, writers and artists given credit

[@galactic85]

Heck I used to work at a movie theater and they sold tons of superhero merchandise whenever marvel films came out. Why not put a bunch of cheap reprints of old single issue comics on display at theater concession stands so that people can grab them? Print them cheap on newsprint too if they are so worried about wasting money.

[@kaior1]

same

[@goazer2]

Because american comics serial format is bad and isn't worth investing in because there's no payoff. Like legit the movies are a fusion of the american comics with all the best parts of manga. They have with consistent canon and high quality so it's worthwhile(or used to be) worth putting your time into it.

[@monty_coolmccool]

​@@goazer2 Those movies would be nothing without the comics though. There's also more interesting things you can do with a comic book than a film imo

[@bobi200samatar6]

Here's something western publishers can do: put their books where people can see them! You don't have to abandon comic stores, but try putting books in grocery stores, and general book stores, make it easy for people to know that a title exists. Archie Sonic did this and that book lived for 2 and a half decades!

[@Kobe.T]

Archie was my introduction to comics, and the fact that I could buy them myself at basically every grocery store check out is a huge reason for that

[@benjipc5637]

The office supply store near me sells Archie comics and they're pretty much the only comic books that they have there.

[@danilo9498]

How many books were on Supermarkets and grocery stores for a long time they didn’t sell there either

[@joeparrigen4982]

Back in the 80s, that's what they used to do. I don't know why they stopped.

[@bobi200samatar6]

@@joeparrigen4982 my understanding of this isn't that great, but I think it had to do with publisher's trying to recreate the vintage comic boom. So they specifically started sending their books to specialized comic stores so investors could buy them, hold onto them for years and hope to sell them for millions. It didn't work, but I guess the comic store model stuck around.

[@lor8262]

I think one thing that makes it easier to get into manga over American comics is how closely anime and manga are to each other. Many animes are almost 1:1 with their books. I got into a lot of mangas because I caught up with the and the manga became the only way to experience the rest of the story, I think fatiftial adaptations of some popular current comics could really helps boost sales if ongoing series.

[@DJmouchi777]

It doesn't help that most CBM fans have some sort of active disdain for comics. I've had so many experiences where someone trys to speak on comics like they're some kind of authority and the only knowledge they have is an adaptation that gets everything about the character wrong except maybe visuals. They'll disparage the original and call the adaptation an improvement while knowing next to nothing about the source material.

[@lor8262]

@@DJmouchi777 it doesn't help that most CBM's these days feature radically difrent charters and story's then the comics themselves. I don't think it's bad that the movies are unique but there's such a huge disconnect between the two it's no wonder cbm fans don't make the jump

[@jandro4644]

​@@DJmouchi777 yeah, every time I see a twitter thread about the boys is about how the tv series is such a big improvement from the comic, and comic is crap and blablabla. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[@izuto727]

Yeah, more adaptation should be a recap to catch up comic

[@Darkwiccawillow]

That also applies to light novels. I liked the anime. I wanted more content, so I picked up the lights novel.

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

I grew up in India and in 2000s Marvel and DC tried to really push their comics over there. They collaborated under Gotham comics, that printed comics in India. They were smaller sized and different page quality, which helped make them super affordable for the readers in India. And this wasn't just in India either, a lot of South Asian countries had them. They also partnered up with Indian brands and offered pocket size comics with a purchase. That's how I read JLA by Grant Morrison for the first time. They even had older comics published in a thing called Comic World which was a big digest with other Indian comics. Also, Gotham Comics had a subscription option that made it easy to get those comics at home. They even had fan art contests to keep readers engaged. They even had multiple translated copies of these comics. BTW Gotham Comics is the reason why Spider-Man: India exists. Without DC and Marvel working together like this I would've never gotten into comics. But sadly they stopped that initiative without any great reason after 7 years or so. Marvel and DC are really bad at engaging with their readers. They have a huge international fanbase but they don't even acknowledge them. Whereas physical copies of Manga is easily available in no matter what country I've visited.

[@tusharrathore6330]

Also most of current Marvel and DC stories kinda sucks.

[@susear5939]

Same. I got into comics in the 2000s via the Gotham Comic prints. They were cheap, I could pick up a bunch and be invested for a while. You even got posters with some of them. The digests were a treat.

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

@@susear5939 That's awesome!! I loved those posters!

[@Deoxys911]

Mentioning the different page quality gave me an interesting thought: what if comics were made with lower quality paper even in America thus making them more affordable and giving big fans more incentive to get digital copies/subscribe to the digital service so they can appreciate the higher quality?

[@joshuawhite8131]

That's so crazy, I live in South Africa and I also had a bunch of those Gotham Comic books growing up in the 2000s

[@mrpingasman3079]

For comics to truly be saved, they first need to shed the reputation of being impossible to get into because of years of continuity. Good writers don’t lean on long form continuity very much, and when they do they offer recaps or recommend the source story. It’s mostly people looking in the comic fandom from outside that make comics seem more complicated than they are. I saw a thread on twitter talking about how a tiktok user was recommending their viewers to actively not read Batfam comics and instead read ao3 fanfic (yeah I’m serious, they actually said that) and how it actively hurts the reputation of comic books.

[@DJmouchi777]

I saw that tiktok. What makes it worse is that they were a Tim Drake fan. You know, the Robin that had an almost 200 issue ongoing and multiple miniseries. Like, he's probably the easiest Batfamily character to get an understanding of besides maybe Batman himself. I can't imagine telling people who like a character to not even attempt to read the series they came from.

[@Navek15]

Ya, I never understood where this misconception came from. The first comic run I got into was when Dan Slott’s Mighty Avengers run started at Issue 21. And it provided all the information and continuity I needed to understand what was going on, and made me want to learn more about the Marvel Universe.

[@mrpingasman3079]

@@Navek15 it most likely came from the 90’s, the peak of multiple onrunning series for a character/group, high issue numbers, and variant covers

[@icebearnicho8256]

As many continuities and reboot, Marvel & DC need to start fresh with one "final reboot". Now, hear me out, their fictional verses are too jumbled and nobody can understand anything, the cosmologies are all over the place, and nobody can cohesively tell how things connect. They need to pay the best writers in the industry, decide what characters are integral to the universes, and put them each on specific books so they can tell the very best stories they have to offer. Because they have a smaller, more developed team of writers, they can work together to see how their individual stories connect and overlap, and starting with Book 1, fans won't be lost. They can comfortably say "from here on out, ONLY what's written in this reboot is canon" so ppl can focus on buying all the new books and the old books have more collector's value. Even tho I love multiverses, they can put theirs in the background or remove it, give the universe new planets and races to write about, and from their follow a working business model for decades to come.

[@richborn6700]

​@@icebearnicho8256problem is they do exactly what you said. They try to streamline for new readers, but within 100 issues there is usually too much continuity and several crossovers

[@FoolsGil]

There's also one thing manga has that comics don't: a sense of finality with choice. You won't have to worry about a retcon with a manga story, well not often anyways.

[@zanerobbins3794]

dragon ball z s to the brim with retcons

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

​​@@zanerobbins3794Still not NEARLY as egregious as western comics get. Dragonball is messy for sure but it never goes back in on itself as hard as superhero comics do. Spideys clone saga had a powerful moment where Aunt may wakes out of a coma to talk to Peter about his identity/secret before passing away peacefully in her home. *EXCEPT ACTUALLY, that was a genetically modified actress hired by the green goblin to mess with Peter and make him sad.* Do you see how utterly retarded and soul crushing reading that is?

[@wiraadi7927]

I don't understand American Comics. Why don't they just hire 1 really good writer, let's say for spiderman, let him be in universe 1, start from issu 1, let the story evolve and ends (peter happily married/dead/whatever), the end of the said universe stroy and fans would get their sense of finality. If marvel need another boost from spiderman in the future, just create universe 2 spiderman, focus solely on that, let the story finish instead just randomly throwing new universe here and there while the main universe story keeps going nowhere

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

@wiraadi7927 Because it started as a grassroots, ragtag, pulpy magazine focused format. Getting new talent and switching them around can, at the very best of times, lead to dynamic and exciting story arcs that'd be tough to replicate with one person's vision and energy. Of course on the other hand, it can often lead to cluttered disorganized storytelling, filled with contradictory desperate plot swings that lead to stuff like Peter Parker selling his marriage to the devil to keep his geriatric aunt alive for a few more years. Or the clone saga if you REALLY wanna go down the rabbit hole for Spider-Man.

[@DBAnthony009]

@@zanerobbins3794 You picked the one outlier. The majority of Manga is 1 linear story. We're not going to solve this problem by comments like this.

[@akirahellfire]

For me, the reason I mainly read manga is mostly because, more often than not, there's endings. It's easier to be a casual reader if you know the exact length of the entire story or if you hear about how a current ongoing series is entering it's final arc and how much time you might need to commit. I feel much more comfortable jumping into a new series getting hyped up. With American comics, I only really get that from indie series. I also think that having an animated adaptation really help out manga, as well. Like when you get really hyped about anime so much that instead of waiting for the next season you start reading the manga to see what happens next

[@agsdragon5475]

I agree I think comic book status quo and power scaling is fucking shit

[@idimation5579]

As someone who was a major weeb in high school and had this exact perception of American comics being hard to get into, my perspective changed once I got a hold of Image/Dark Horse/indie comics. Those comics covered a wider range of genres, were easy to get into, but sadly don’t get the same amount of attention as the Big Two do in the mainstream.

[@TheBoyFromAngelsEgg]

That's why I always recommend indie comics to new comers, much easier to get into.

[@tommyvasquez2708]

i hope that as invincible continues to grow as a show, people will get into its comics and try to get into other image comics as well

[@arturofernandez4058]

I've always been much more into Vertigo/Image than Marvel/DC. Partly because they were more isolated concepts and original ideas. And partly because they were individual series. You start at issue 1, and end when it ends

[@TheBoyFromAngelsEgg]

@@tommyvasquez2708 hopefully Saga gets adapted as an animated series.

[@idimation5579]

@@tommyvasquez2708 Same

[@wawfleu]

One thing I think makes it more difficult to get and stay into comics is the constantly changing writers. You never know when a writer is just gonna shit the bed and ruin or fail to keep up with the last writer

[@K1ng1995]

😮 I think it also comes from the idea of "Nostalgia CAN be toxic" Look at say the original X-Factor comics. When those started. None of the original 5 X-Men were members of the team anymore. Magneto was now leader of the team, Cyclops had retired and became a father with Maddie Iceman and Angel had quit the superhero game altogether. Beast joined The Avengers Jean Grey was dead So a lot of older writers missed the old members of them so they resurrected Jean behind Claremonts back. Thus creating the whole "Inferno" Arc. That's the problem. There are so many toxic fans that hate it when writers try something new that actually works really well.

[@ExeErdna]

@@K1ng1995 This is true because look at how the other writers were so toxic with Hickman's X-Men storyline which seems like it was supposed to end years ago. Yet currently it just a mess of mutants fighting mutants, humans hating mutants AGAIN, Nimrod is alive again. It really makes me think "what was the point?" Yet I heard they did such because Hickman wanted to cook and others didn't like it.

[@Vulkan1998]

There many comic books who written by one writer and illustrated by one artist. For example preacher by Garth Ennis, but those aren’t really mainstream like manga.

[@----x-----]

The big secrets of manga's success are very simple: consistency, quality, love to their fans a single manga writer/artist always controls a series so it's always going to be consistent in tone, art and direction. Quality is pretty high let's be real a lot of modern comics suck in art or story they are prompted by corporations and carried by brands while manga must to stand their own and are works of passion. Finally manga authors and their audience share the same page,mindset,tastes, they enjoy the same things, manga authors give fans what they want as opposed to comics writers who often think they are better than the fans even antagonizing them out of spite

[@ExeErdna]

Which is the sad thing people be like "chill out i'll buy your stuff" yet they go on a blocking spree and acting childish. When they clearly screwed up

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

yea some manga authors like the one for jjk outright act like fans themselves you can feel the passion

[@pionieresvizzero2224]

French comics are even better

[@arx3516]

One important thing to keep in mind is that the american comics scene is dominated by only one genre: the super hero one. Japanese Manga and european comics on the other hand have a lot if different genres. Not everyone is fond of stories about guys in spandex fist fighting on rooftops, some peoplel may prefer detective stories or romantic ones.

[@keremmazman3761]

You can find detective stories or romantic stories in american comics, you just have to look outside Marvel and DC. You can look for Terry Moore's works for romance and Ed Brubaker's non superhero works for noir crime stories.

[@AlexBrown230]

@@keremmazman3761 This is why i miss Vertigo. Vertigo (which i only know exists because it was owned by DC and sold on shelves in book stores and comic shops) had Sandman, 100 Bullets, Hellblazer, Preacher. Most mainstream western comics are superheroes and you have to dig deeper to find other comics or go indie and do the legwork to find something you want to read. With manga you got Jujutsu Kaisen, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Bleach, My Hero Academia all different genres, all mainstream. You can dig deeper to find other stuff but you already got variety right at the top layer.

[@AlexBrown230]

@@keremmazman3761 What is the first thing you find when you go into a comic store or a bookstore and go to the comic section? Superhero comics. Now go to the manga section and tell me how many genres do you see on display? Those are the ones that sell, the popular mangas, the mainstream mangas. Look at the genres and tell me how many do you see? Let's be honest the only reason vertigo sold was because it was owned by DC. Now tell me how many or how often do you see non superheroes that aren't owned by one of the big two being put up on shelves, most western comic readers don't know that the comic they want exists or if it does because all they see is superheroes. That is the entry barrier to comics and manga for someone going to a book store or comic shop for the first time.

[@keremmazman3761]

​@@AlexBrown230 You can start following Image, they publish lots of series Vertigo would probably publish if they were around. Couple of their series got an adaptation(most notably The Walking Dead) and couple more adaptations on the way. Most Vertigo writers and artists has some Image work. Most of the popular superhero writers has non-superhero Image books.

[@chrissolace]

Pretty spot on take. Japanese manga has their popular “shounen” action genre, but that genre isn’t about one topic; it can be an adventure story about pirates fighting each other, ninjas throwing spells at each other, a death reaping swordsman fighting ghosts, a group of humans in a apocalyptic world fighting giant man-eating humanoid monsters, etc. And as you said, it’s not hard to jump into other genres, since this main one already has a little bit of other genres in it. Some of these action ones have a bit of hidden romance, so maybe you look for more romance oriented series. Oh, you like the down time developing the characters or them doing not much at all? You can look at slice of life. And it’s not hard to find. When I went into my Barnes and Noble, I could look at an action manga, maybe not be interested, turn around, and find another genre. If I went to the comic section, it’s pretty much going to be 90% superheroes and a lot less easy to browse through than manga.

[@jonmayhew4468]

I think one of the biggest flaws in western superhero comics is the books can never have real consequences or endings. How many times can you read Batman vs the Joker, puts him back in Arkham only for him to escape again and the cycle starts all over? Its applicable for any Marvel/DC superhero really, they've had 60 years of this issue, character deaths are meaningless and the status quo is always eventually reset. It all means nothing

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

That not really a flaw of western superhero comics. Lots of major franchises, such as Doctor Who, Scooby Doo, Sherlock Holmes, and others have lasted many decades with many reboots and retellings, or in a sense no "real" ending. I'd argue this is an advantage of serial storytelling.

[@henriquechagas7017]

This is such a popular thing to say and yet it's so wrong. There is a status quo in comics, yes, but it doesn't mean stories have no consequences. Hank Pym hit his wife by accident in the 70s and that stayed with his character until he died (yes, he's still dead.) Tony Stark went from alcoholic arms dealing asshole to a real hero over decades of comics, this didn't change. Spider-man graduated high-school, left the bugle, finished college and however many other things changed in Peter's life since highschool. Karen Page was killed in the Daredevil comics, never came back. I could be here all day giving examples of how many heroes changed through the course of their history, but you get the picture. To say comic history is a circle that just repeats itself is, in my opinion, just plain laziness.

[@spiritofpostpunk7207]

​@ryszakowy you know there is other types of comics other than superhero comics

[@Hawkatana]

It's also a problem in some Manga. Freeza has been brought back from the dead *TWICE* now in Dragon Ball, and Naruto's remaining fans are falling off from Boruto in droves.

[@kaybee328]

​@@ryszakowyyesss that would be such a good way of doing it

[@retroandyart]

Speaking as a former comic shop owner, I think you’re pretty much spot-on with your assessment. DC and Marvel both are awful at bringing new readers in. The movies have helped, but they aren’t significantly offsetting the number of people who leave the hobby. I will say, Marvel’s Epic Collections are a really good way to get into a specific character. They’re clearly numbered, collect everything you need to follow a specific story, and they generally get reprinted with enough frequency that it’s not too hard to find them. But they are printed out-of-order, and none of the major heroes have had complete runs finished yet. It’s not a perfect solution YET, but it WILL be a HUGE help as time goes on.

[@Marabcd315]

I think the thing that's (justifiably) hard for non-comics readers to understand is that 9 times out of 10 the best place to start is finding a well received run of a character you're interested in and start at that run's #1, everything being sold as so interconnected is so harmful to accessibility

[@utubrGaming]

There's a reason why I somewhat mentally silo, as DC is interconnected, between "JLA stories", "Gotham Stories", "Metropolis Stories", "Space Stories", "Titans Stories" etc. Other than grounding itself fully into the different settings, it means it has a more solid identity in terms of setting and tone.

[@ahhcount]

I agree with this since that's how I got into moon knight. People have been praising Jed Mackay's ongoing then started reading. There are a few things referenced that the comics mentioned happened before, but I still enjoyed reading them and not having context for some of those things didn't affect my enjoyment.

[@invisibleBDK]

I know you said “you have to get over it” many times in this video in reference to the sheer scope of these series, but it is precisely the thing that people are not going to do. Manga are simply more digestible, they have a clear beginning and ending, and don’t carry around 60 years of backstory and variants (aka baggage, confusion and intimidation). You read them 1,2,3, they end, and it’s satisfying - then you pick up the next one, which is probably a completely fresh new world. Other things you point out are issues as well, as far as distribution, but primarily, I think people want satisfying stories and characters they can feel ownership of, reading with a clear goal, met with a sense of completion, and that seems impossible for DC/Marvel heroes due to the decades long backlog and, hey did we mention, it’s never-ending going forward too? Nah. Just no no no thanks to that.

[@CartoonistDave]

Dude great comment. I’ve been trying to get into American comics for decades but it’s just an unattractive product. And we(the audience) tell the comic companies and commentators what we want but they seldom listen. So i just stick with manga and indies. It’s so easy to read instead of doing comic homework with marvel and dc.

[@jadenbryant9283]

Maybe give them stories that are standalone and m you don't need continuity like stories like Superman:secert origin batman:Year one stories that you don't need to know a ton about the lore or continuity to really follow

[@notaraven]

I dont think the issue is the lore or backlog, comics do a pretty good job explaining the essential stuff to readers. I think the issue is how interconnected everything is. When i read one piece i can feel comfortable that there isn't going to be a massive event where pain kills half the crew because of events in naruto's manga that stretched over 2 years.

[@nookmiles1895]

That's the problem, though-what actually counts as essential? Characters get married, break up, marry other people, die, come back to life, have children, lose them, etc. Even in a single book, that would be a whirlwind, but DC and Marvel's biggest characters exist across multiple books, each with different events that should, in theory, be essential. Sometimes Brainiac is responsible for Krypton’s destruction, other times he’s not. Sometimes Jonathan Kent has already passed away by the time Clark becomes Superman, while other times, he's still alive. Even the origin of superhero's powers, what should be set in stone if we're expected to take these stories seriously, is subject to major change. One moment, Peter Parker gains his powers from a simple radioactive spider bite; the next, they’re tied to some kind of mysticism.

[@davidbernard1770]

A big thing for me is the fight scenes. manga like Kengan and Sakamoto Days are able to effortlessly convey motion and impact which is something i barely see in the stiff fight scenes in comics

[@lishark843]

Suzuki Yuto in fight scenes is a BEAST

[@Navek15]

I think that could be because usually comics are only around 22 pages, and need to fit as much plot as possible. I honestly think a 40-page monthly at around $3.99 would give ya more bang for your buck.

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

sakamoto days has some sick action

[@aromalja9861]

Read lookism

[@russellwestbrook462]

This is one of the main things for me, fight scenes in comics look like you paused a movie and usually you’re seeing the reaction to the action

[@shoxy-the-pinecone6113]

modern audiences want to follow series, not characters within a universe. thats why comics are falling off and manga is thriving and thats why the spider verse series is so popular despite mcu fatigue. i love one piece but if i had to read a different series for each major character i very quickly would give up on it

[@chaserseven2886]

except the new spider man isnt a part of the mcu

[@shoxy-the-pinecone6113]

@@chaserseven2886 yeah that’s my point, people love spider man and superheroes but they don’t want to feel like they have to keep up with other series to keep up with the series and characters to care about

[@MelodicQuest]

So true. Spiderverse does such a great job of handling multiple narratives and having them all tie into each other. Across The Spiderverse isn't just Miles' story but Gwen's as well, and that's why audiences love it.

[@Madtylerp]

Very well said i agree the fact that if I want to know who Ben Reily is or Cletus Cassidy are i gotta reading their series is not the way to go .

[@guyonyoutube3850]

i find myself completely avoiding getting singular issues, instead waiting for them to release volumes. it's kind of like buying an entire season of a tv show on dvd vs. just one episode over and over again.

[@sebastianshook6771]

It's How I Prefer Collecting Comics. Not To Mention It's Often Cheaper.

[@jokeronline702]

The biggest issue for comics with me is the numbering, and having multiple running series. I don’t know which ones I need to read between Spider-Man, The Amazing Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Peter Parker: Spider-Man. I know Amazing is supposed to be the mainline but what are all these other books? Are they canon? When do they take place. It’s all just so confusing

[@KingOfFools784]

Best I can say is just read what’s interesting to you. If you want a full storyline and then find a run by a specific author. If they ever end up referencing events in other books they tend to tell you which one.

[@richborn6700]

It was so bad in the 90s when all Spider-Man stories were multi part crossovers with each of these series having a different part of the larger story. So you have ONE STORY, with four separate sets of writers and artists telling it. Just a fuckin mess

[@avoidant560]

I also have the same difficulty with the numbering system, but then I looked around for an alternative like their imprints (DC Black Label or Marvel What If) that offer shorter, one-off stories without worrying about continuity and started reading stuff from there.

[@aba1design]

This is exactly the thing that made me stop reading comics when I jumped on during the new 52

[@Jeicemeiser]

The other MASSIVE problem with the Western model for the Big Two is the phenomenon of the crossover/event comic. Even in trades where you can follow one creative team’s cohesive take on a story (which is rare enough with artist/writer changeover), many times that run will get completely derailed by a crossover, event, or some other editorial mandate. I cannot count the times I have been reading a series in trades and had to stop between one “chapter” and the next to google search the reading order to what other trades I needed to pick up from the library in what order to make the one I’m reading make sense.

[@phenixnunlee372]

I was reading the batman beyond comics and they did that and it was like well tim drake is batman beyond because future's end? why drop.

[@Nawona]

Exactly, that is a HUGE editorial mistake in my opinion

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

​​@@Nawonahard to call it a mistake when its nearly every single time a big crossover happens. Requiring me to buy multiple issues from eight different books JUST to read Death Of The Family isn't just a mistake. It's godawful writing and management.

[@mreddboy]

Big agree. Blackest Night is one of the most annoying crossovers to read through in proper order. Even with just the core books: Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corp and Blackest Night, you have to jump between each book after an issue to get a coherent story.

[@antoinehenderson1659]

I totally agree on the graphic novels bit. TPBs are cheaper than buying the same number of issues, but they are still quite expensive.

[@Kirazz]

Drake, my girlfriend used to only read Manga until I showed her Zatanna and Black Cat (she is very picky with her characters) now both of them are her favorite characters. I used your channel to help her find more content and now she's hooked, even watching stuff without me (The Mantis and Secret Invasion videos) she wants to get more in touch with other books but she doesn't know where to start

[@TheBroganBurke]

I've always been baffled that no publisher has tried to pull off a subscription anthology. If there was an indie comics magazine I'd be hella all over it

[@yakobi8434]

Is that so? I hope to write comics of my own one day and am going to art school to pursue an entrepreneurial degree..do you think a comic market benefit from magazines that similar to entities such as Shonen JUMP?

[@TheBroganBurke]

@@yakobi8434 I've thought about cuz I also want to make comics. But if some artist pooled money to put together a cheaply printed manga-style magazine, I do think there could be enough of a market for subscription zine that allows independent comic stories new eyes and sustained audience. It's like a comic equivalent vinyl LPs and casettes

[@20035079]

@@yakobi8434 if it's in areas where people actually shop & not specialty stores, absolutely. there's basically zero competition for it right now & Dotdash Meredith/A360media are only doing certain types of magazines aimed mainly at older people right now (and their magazines are the only ones i see near checkout lanes)

[@GenerationWest]

There's an easy way to structure the comics, like seasons or make a numerical list of comics in order of legacy numbering/character appearances that tells you "You are here". Marvel and DC Fandom pages do this, and it's the best way to track down a character's appearance and storyline... yet, the companies themselves hardly do it. Plus, companies may not want to, but sometimes, we need jumping on points, especially when some arcs have complete stories, or are retconned out of existence. Like I said prior, the wikis help, but shouldn't be the go to.

[@WarriorBoy]

In some of the trades you can get, there will be reading lists of adjacent stories and where you can go. I remember some other roadmaps to storylines in the past where it would give you a breakdown of what you stories you need to buy next, but I like the idea of them releasing something comprehensive for that character like you mention that the Wikis do. And publicize and promote that the roadmap itself exists.

[@DragoRaRaRa]

As someone that reads both comics and manga I can confirm it is significantly easier to keep up with and purchase manga than it ever is in comics. I think the worst aspect of comics is that because everything is connected together in massive events, it makes it harder to keep up or retain interest. It also ruins potential storylines when major events get delayed (see doomsday clock). They need definitive where to start benchmarks and to make them widely accessible.

[@kingdomheartsguy44]

I always tell people to read Invincible as their first comic. It's so easy to get into and read. You can buy the entire series in 24 paperbacks, 3 thick books, or 12 hardcovers. Each one is easily numbered on the spine. Image Comics does a great job cataloging their comics in an affordable and easy way. More comics should follow this model.

[@Ninja5ifty]

The point you made about anthologies really hits home since old issues of Marvel Comics Presents really helped me get invested in the medium, and only getting bits and pieces of each story kept me interested in the next issue. One other benefit of trades and collected editions is that you don’t have to hunt down those random single issues that you can’t find locally and therefore end up stuck with an incomplete run

[@jazzmazz9214]

I feel like that would work very well currently with a lot of the X-men stuff. X-men right now is all telling one story from different perspectives, so an anthology book that you could get monthly as opposed to picking up 10 different books in a month would help.

[@cheesydawg371]

Something that I think DC is doing really well rn is selling older books for cheap at Ollies. I got like 4 books of varying thickness, one even being a hardcover, all for around $20. I would have never picked these up with their original prices and most comic book stores don't seem to care about that.

[@tableprinterdoor]

Invincible feels like it gets all the good parts of comics with all the good parts of manga. A good middle-ground.

[@vontheunknown7982]

Honestly, I love both comic and manga equally 😊🎉

[@captnbluehat]

Most people dont.

[@admiralAlfonso9001]

Same it’s tomato tomahto for me

[@Navek15]

@@captnbluehatThen those people are spoilsports

[@N.Kunwar.]

Very true they both are the biggest pillars of popculture.

[@armandotorres8962]

WHAT? NO! YOU MUST LOVE ONE ONLY!!!

[@P_Tookay]

THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME WITH XMEN! I could not believe my ears when I heard you say that. Not only is it difficult to keep up with the titles, it is annoying having to cross my eyes to read 6 different titles at once! Boom Studio's Power Rangers is a great example of a contemporary comic title done right. It's an engaging story with a dynamic plot that continually develops familiar characters while also adding cool new ones.

[@Enjoysaeli]

You always make good points on the business end of the comic industry. Because yeah, while I love having every bit of Shonen Jumps catalog for 3 bucks (even rereading One Piece on it again), it'd be great for comics to have a similar service.

[@kaison12205]

I mean dc universe infinite is like 6.50 a month and gives you a very very large amount of dc’s catalog the more expensive version basically only puts you a month behind the series. It’s a pretty good app my friend has been reading Batman’s entire run chronologically. And I’ve been using it to get into the Grayson run and less popular runs that seem different and interesting

[@peterm1925]

I'm glad you're talking about this. I recently complained to my husband that there were too many tie-ins for DC vs Vampires and it seemed so convoluted that I couldn't imagine it being appealing to anyone not already chin deep into comics.

[@TheSpiralCurse]

I tried to read Blackest Night at one point and found out how many side books I'd have to also get and it killed any enthusiasm I had

[@phenixnunlee372]

@@TheSpiralCurse OMG right I hate tie-in so much. I was subscribed the DC universe app and it could handle the order for me.

[@bladox971]

For manga, something that often happens is that a person watches 1 season of an anime and when caught up then switches to the manga. It often makes the transition very easy from watching to reading

[@ancientking224]

Thank You for this video. I've tried to get into Marvel and DC Comics and started off with the Ultimate Spider-Man run and DC Injustice that started my jumping off point. With that said I could never and still can't figure out what new Comic came out recently so usually what I ended up reading was years out of date or a series that doesn't connect to the mainstream. I mainly went to popular but miscellaneous series like Archie Sonic and Invincible which while a bit confusing to navigate it was easy to find a timeline on the series to figure out what to do. I still try to keep up with DC and Marvel during their big events or the big hero's like Batman and Spider-Man but as mentioned comics are pretty expensive for something I can finish in 15 min. Overall thank you for pointing this out as it's mainly you and Comicstorian that still keep me in the loop.

[@AdorianDelmore]

what I love about Manga and Manhwa is that they are not trapped in a loop like comics are. with the fact that no villain can actually die or change permanently, that there are a lot of What if universes and if no one dies, then you replace them with another variant of them, instead we get to see the characters we follow develop and grow over time. this is why I liked the MCU when it started because it felt like we were following a timeline of events and developments.

[@cheesier5153]

I’m very conflicted ngl Floppies are my favorite part of comics as they are such a time capsule But you are right in that it would be beneficial for the companies in bringing in new fans if they switched to the manga model

[@griffinharp1106]

I don’t think the manga model would actually work for american comics.

[@ItsButterBean1020]

I like the idea of having certain series go on hiatuses with a yearly schedule cycling them out

[@ajanaya8055]

The difference between Manga and Comic: Manga has a beginning and definite end (generally). Comic is in a constant perpetual loops.

[@ComicDrake]

Wait until you find out that western comics aren't just Marvel and DC. 🤯

[@ajanaya8055]

@ :Y

[@Spantzcatdog]

Just DC and Marvel

[@What-ish]

Even as a moderate comic fan I have trouble getting into comics. I usually gravitate towards self-contained stories and oneshots like elseworlds because it's easier to hop right in. I have had so many situations where I start reading a comic and within the first few pages I realize there's a bunch of events and information being referenced that I never heard of, which I'd have to catch up on by reading 6 other series and whatever the main event is. It's a lot sometimes.

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

This

[@Jay_D_Generate]

You know what's crazy, I've read floppies for decades and I only just recently heard about DC Universe Infinite. Sure current single issues are a month behind but full access to their digital library is more than worth it. I would have subscribe to this a long time ago if I knew it existed. I've had the jump app since back when it was a dollar a month and I love it.

[@ManiacX1999]

I was hoping you would go over the "critique" that comics have become "too political" over the years versus Manga. Which, I know is BS because comics have always been political and manga gets political too. But i think that'd be beating a dead horse since you already had these points for previous videos. I still liked this one since it actually brought up the obvious solution, pay for ads. Bruh, how did I never notice that?

[@mysticlegion8088]

Ignoring that comics wasnt in your face political back then is why u guys will never understand why the hack, axtivist, insert writers are killing comics. I wanted to read the comments to see if u guys are finally understanding but all of u are still willingly blind.

[@shinyocelot04archive]

It seems so obvious, yet nobody's really doing it. If there was a "this is the comic that inspired the movie" type of advertisement for MCU stuff it would work.

[@matti.8465]

​@@shinyocelot04archive Maybe release trades compiling specific issues an upcoming comic book movie is based of?

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Just cause it was done in the past doesnt mean you should rehash it...or should be bring back all the past tropes as well that got increasingly ridiculous😂 And then theres good and poor taste and good and poor WRITING. Comics have occupied the poor side of the spectrum for a LONG time now. Nobody minds these ideas if theres GOOD execution but then again not EVERYthing has to have it Also dont even bring up manga. Manga works because they understand the meaning of GENRE and have subsections for all their different works. Meaning no one could ever complain about what they got because they were tols BEFORE hand what it would be and it isnt FORCED onto them. Not to mention Mangakas dont get into PISSY arguements on twitter with their fans, call them names and block them💀

[@ManiacX1999]

@@no.1spidey-fan182 Manga that's on this side of the world? You know only the profitable ones get imported right? Imagine the amount of slop that isn't...

[@gatonegroloco]

I’ve always said we need a justice league comic anthology with each hero getting their own story + one where it’s multiple of them working together. Good to see someone agrees.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@ryszakowy What is your problem man?

[@gatonegroloco]

@@IkeOkerekeNews yeah not gonna lie I have no idea what he’s getting at.

[@stealthgamer4620]

@@gatonegrolocoHe’s saying there’s this existing series of comics of anthology, it’s obviously boring but the company isn’t exactly punished for their current formula/model. What sucks is we, the readers and consumers are really the ones taking the consequence of “we know comics can definitely be better.”

[@orioli14]

You mean like "JLA: world greatest superheroes"?

[@thevenom2731]

They need to get rid of single issues and release trade paperbacks as the standard.

[@alessandroaleman4512]

As a stranger who used to live in Budapest, Hungary, funnily enough comics were more widely available in Hungarian than manga, and surprisingly their printing quality is much more high quality than standard comic formats sold in other countries, at the cost of a smaller a5 size, *AND* being 5 years behind print than other countries, which means Hungarians are still reading comics from 2017 as of right now. When i was growing up, there were a boat load of Hungarian comic conventions and festivals where you could find anything comic related!

[@Ckapter]

I grew up in side a comic store. I spent nearly 10 years working them out if HS… then I just stopped caring. I found board games and TTRPG’s and my interests drifted… then an old friend told me about getting Comixology as part of my prime subscription. Now my kid and I read books together most nights about bed time ritual. Having digital access is soo nice! I really hope your video gains traction and changes start happening. I’d be more than happy to shift my 5.00 a month from Comixology to Marvel or DC if their prices drop and more content is available.

[@KALELSUPRMN]

A few things that I'm really enjoying with DC right now... - The trailers for the new DC movies all seem to be advertising books at the end. Hopefully that inspires some folks to go out and pick up those issues (and others) - And also, the current "Knight Terrors" event in DC. I haven't jumped in just yet, but I like that they're pausing most of the regular issues during the event and very clearly identifying which tie-ins are part of the event (e.g. Knight Terrors: Superman #2, etc), vs. just having some random Superman ### crossing over into an event. Stuff like that, coupled with adopting some of the manga model could really be helpful. The hardest part for me years ago was just figuring out where in the hell something starts in the grand scheme of continuity, reboots, relaunches, etc. etc. Trades and some general help from online resources/reddit really helped me out a lot.

[@RuinedDruid897]

My hot take is that the pacing of western comics and the dialog of them is what holds them back. I have read so many marvel series only to feel like barely anything has happened, same with spawn. Read FMA or Fruits Basket and after a few pages I feel like more meaningful character development happens than will happen in 5 issues of a western comic.

[@tykefloyd3749]

I bought that same Max Rebo book last week at my local Comic Book store that has been in business for over 35 years (Comics & Collectables in Memphis, TN) and while I’m sad to your favorite store has shut down recently I don’t believe it is necessary to abandon the entire business model. Single issues may be preventing new readers from entering the medium but they are keeping a whole ecosystem of mom and pop businesses alive.

[@NeroPiroman]

One author writing one story at a time without convoluted crossowers and decades of even more convoluted continuity is why manga is winning

[@NiohArcadia]

Another thing think is an issue (Pun intented) is that American Comics just only seem to be known as "The Super Hero big punch" books when of course there's way more than that but obviously to non-reads/casuals they don't know that. I done think there is one solution to something like this honestly.

[@MadridMonarch]

Imagine Marvel and DC doing something like Shounen Jump… showcasing different multiple series chapters together and having a free trading card included… It’s too bad nothing like that will ever happen for western comics.

[@lishark843]

The card does not come with the Shonen Jump tho, it comes with the V-Jump

[@ExeErdna]

Yet both basically want you to spend nearly $100 per month just to keep up and they wonder why there's so much piracy.

[@Sappysappster]

Yknow seeing the title and thumbnail I really thought this was gonna be a "Place, Place: Japan" type video but the arguments you made here are compelling. And I could honestly see them working to bring in new comicbook readers as a lite manga head the one thing that has kept me away from reading comics is the huge mountain. people always say "You can start anywhere dude." And whilst that's true (to an extent), it's like telling someone who doesn't know how to draw "Just draw dude" You're not wrong, but I you don't tell me how to develop my craft, I'm going to be drawing in circles to the point of frustration (and eventually quit)

[@chads.1726]

Modern American corporations rarely reinvest their profits into their products or services. Almost always going directly into admirative pockets (never the talent/creators, they are not seen as "important") This is why we get half assed regurgitated amalgamations of comic's in movie/tv form. Short sighted profit chasing supplanted the more traditional way a long time ago. great video drake. glad there are people like you doing the exceptionally hard work of explaining this stuff, it is hard.

[@aetherkid]

A famous philosopher wrote about this 150 years ago

[@chads.1726]

I am well aware of that. But when you talk about him many people shut their brains off and start repeating things they have been told but have never thought about@@aetherkid

[@minidwarf4266]

The most advertisement I’ve seen was for the first Dark Knight Metal series. For those that don’t know they released the first run they released an album alongside it and it was actually a big seller for the event. However after one trailer and a behind the scenes video of Tyler Bates working on a track (that didn’t even make the final version of the album) there was absolutely no news as to when the music itself was going to drop. It got to the point where people assumed the album was cancelled until out of the blue they dropped the whole thing without telling the public. I believe something similar happened with the second DC’s Metal story as well.

[@vincentbatten4686]

Single Issues are holding people back at this point. But if we are talking about the big 2, then they need to consider how unavailable a lot of their books are, and the fact that there are too many books for a single character or team of characters at any given time. The constant renumbering and relaunches create confusion as well.

[@masomamakes2004]

1:48 It seems like every story is connected…that makes it extremely daunting. It’s like one piece.

[@lenardregencia]

Do an actual continuity run that is easy to follow, give writers/artists their own style, introduce new protagonists/heroes, take risks, and be consistent.

[@phelipeperegrino]

Here in Brazil, comics are released in this anthology format. It's a very practical format that I've always advocated for. When you buy the Superman magazine, for example, you get all the titles related to the character: Superman, Action Comics, Supergirl, Superman: Son of Kal-El, and any other relevant titles for the ongoing storylines or special miniseries that might be coming out (like Superman & Authority, for instance). The issue, however, is that the prices of the editions have been getting higher and higher, deterring new readers simply due to financial reasons.

[@jjrneptune]

I got into comics by reading compendiums of The Amazing Spider-Man, but eventually fell off. Later I got back into comics upon realizing that because I have aphantasia normal books didn’t speak to me but comics did. The only thing was I got back into collected works (namely Hickman’s East of West) and have stayed with mostly image stuff since. I want to read the cape stuff but it does feel too big and too convoluted. Drake’s absolutely right, when the books say 1->2->3, it’s infinitely less daunting.

[@orioli14]

Recently got into image myself. Just picked vol 1 of EoW. I am having a great time.

[@jjrneptune]

@@orioli14 without a doubt my favorite comic. Keep me posted 🫡

[@orioli14]

​@@jjrneptuneit was pretty good. Really liked the artstyle, and the settings are intresting. I am not 100% hooked yet, but I'll pick the next TPB soon.

[@jjrneptune]

@@orioli14 in my opinion it only gets better. Dragotta’s art is wonderful though, and who doesn’t like a western. Thanks for updating me too, kinda fun to see someone’s progress. Wasn’t expecting that.

[@febreeze4655]

My main problem is that just about every big comic franchise has several different continuities, short side runs, crossover appearances, etc. and it's just a hassle to keep track of it all. If I want to know the full story of spiderman, I gotta read all these crossovers that each have their own context with other characters and their comics. Whereas in most manga, it's a single series with a single vision where you can just read through it like you would any book without missing anything.

[@wdcain1]

I don't see the long-running continuity being a problem anymore. For both the big two, the writers cherry pick what is and isn't canon for their run. And I'm not talking about an obscure line of dialogue from a comic decades ago. There are lots of examples of a hero's powers not working like they're supposed to.

[@victorstarzak-tomon8445]

In Europe (France at least) they did exactly what you said regarding monthly issues: they publish 1 single issue of "Marvel comics" with American issues of spider-man, avengers, Thor, ironman etc... It's kinda cool even if I don't like the current run on SM. I agree that they should publish hardcover instead, that's what I'm buying the most. Very interesting video, love your content 😁

[@blufudgecrispyrice8528]

The things I'd personally like to see American comics adopt are: Creators creating new IPs (not necessarily superhero oriented) that are owned by them pretty much. I guess Image Comics does this though it could stand to be a little more like a manga magazine. This is good because: readers are more likely to be invested in the creators (this has been on the rise), creators will have an actual sense of responsibility for what they create (instead of reducing beloved characters to symbolism because they're forced to work on them) and it allows for a series run to be separated as it's own unique thing instead of, "Alan Moore's version of the Joker and Batman". Having multiple magazine umbrellas... Shueisha has Margaret Comics in addition to various others like Shounen Jump. I think DC's Vertigo this, and a lot of my favourite comics are from there but I don't know what happened since I don't live in America. This allows for proper segregation of the types of titles people would be interested in. To be fair, while I do like superhero comics and enjoy the sheer talent behind them, I enjoy graphic novels more because they are more standalone and owned by the creator. I hope that graphic novels and non-superhero comics rise. Not to say that I hate superhero comics, but I don't like having to see my favourite artists and writers work on another Superman comic (even if I like Superman). It's weird... even when it comes to animated TV... There's Batman the Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Batman: Caped Crusader, etc. They're good, sure, but there are so many different anime adaptions that offer so much variety. Sure manga can be too shounen oriented, but at least there's a little more individuality and for lack of a better term, autership.

[@CalvinNoire]

Batman: Caped Crusader hasn't even been released, what do you mean by that?

[@blufudgecrispyrice8528]

@@CalvinNoire I think I was just giving examples.

[@suchnano]

As someone who recently started reading comics much more, specifically FOR X-Men, I feel you. It started off well enough with the Dawn of X book, which, like you suggested, had X-Men, X-Force, Marauders and a few more all within, all in their reading order and it really gave me a chance to see the story u fold through each and how they related to one another. It also got me to read things I ordinarily wouldn't have (Hellions, which was great imo). When the book ended and I had to continue reading and keeping track of issues on my own, and then books just kept being introduced. It's to the point where even as a huge fan of many of the current X-men comics and characters, it's just a lot to keep up with, and pretty big stuff feels easy to miss (looking at you, Magneto)

[@EmmisonMike]

I feel very conflicted about this because the benefit to american comics is their interconnectivity. Once you know these people then reading a new comic anywhere is like walking into the Cheers! bar. And there's an incredible artform to catching people up with the continuity so far (Under the Red Hood (at least the video, which i like more don't @ me) is phenominal at this because it not only has to catch you up on Jason Todd but also the Red Hood in a story that has enough strength on its own to really work. I don't want to give that up) but part of what makes Manga so approachable is each story being wholly their own thing. they are all (barring spinnofs) different IP's altogether. That being said, my two favorite american series: Immortal Hulk for Marvel and James Robinson's Starman for DC, were just about as walled off as you could get for either universe, and i love them because they're walled off. But i also love them because they draw from deep wells of worldbuilding you typically couldn't get from a Manga. When Hulk takes a step, the whole world notices, and they do take action in ways that still feel focused and beneficial to the story. Starman is several things, but one of those is a Gen X'ers love letter to Golden Age DC. It's beautiful and rad and you don't need to work in the same universe for a work to have direct influence on you, but having it there so overtly has a potency to it you can't replicate. So much of American Comics has been hamstrung by the CCA and cultural biases to "being just for kids." throughout all of this we have (had) one thing going for us that isn't present in other countries' comics, and I don't know what it'd look like to lose that. It feels like it'd have to go in order for comics to keep going, because this distinction is tied to an inviable business model.

[@Handles_be_dumb]

Mini-series that make good starting points: Spider-Man Blue Doctor Strange: The Oath Wolverine: Origins Planet Hulk Vision: Little Worse than a Man (and Little Better than a Beast) And if you want something a little different, 'Marvels' is incredible.

[@Chronoir3]

*They literally tried to make superheroes named Safe Space & Snowflake. That alone speaks volumes*

[@ComicDrake]

And that book never came out because everybody on both sides knew it was a terrible idea. There's thousands of manga series and surprise surprise, some of it also sucks.

[@mlgodzilla4206]

About what? Those never became a thing? And let’s not pretend manga doesn’t have stupid ideas either

[@Spantzcatdog]

And the comics about them never happened due to the backflash.

[@crusty.kamikaze]

Get over it. They never made anything with those characters

[@Akane1051]

When you said "´physical and digital can work hand-in-hand" it made me think that companies could do sponsorship but with physical stores: you get them hooked up with free issues online, you then advertise the physical store to buy the full volume, but also the store has its own "get two free months if you sing-up with our link" deal like influencers have.

[@WRDend]

Manga tells a single story. When it's done it's done. The characters can age and time progresses (for most series). W.Comics reboot the story once its finished. The characters dont age or progress much and there's no ownership over the book you're writing. Naruto was 'one man, one vision,' while Spiderman is made by comittee.

[@HELLO_KORO]

My biggest knack with comics is picking up the 1st issue and it's the direct continuation of another characters book

[@andrewcabrera505]

This video made me realize just how uneconomic it is for me to read weekly issues. My rationale despite the cost was always the collection aspect. I understand comic speculation isn’t a smart industry, but it was less about making money and more about being able to say I had cool issues. My dad collected comics and had an awesome collection, so it felt like I was building on that. Plus, I’m impatient so getting the issues the week they came out before any spoilers was neat. Despite all of this, yeaaaah it’s a really costly and uneconomic habit compared to buying TPBs and saving that money for something else. What do people think?

[@jazzmazz9214]

I think that just binge buying TPB is just more economic. Unfortunately, it only really works for finished runs, and only works if those runs are still in print.

[@the7569]

I totally agree with you here, the American comic book industry really does need to adapt to the times and I do think that the best model is to copy the manga industry. I think something important to note about shonen jump that a lot of people don't realize is it is not only a great compilation that lets you read every chapter released that week, it's also affordable for literally everyone. The book is made almost entirely out of recycled paper, they are not meant to be collected or kept, they're meant to be bought to read those chapters, at a cheap price, and then you recycle the book at the recycling bins usually next to where you bought it. Then if you really love a series you buy the solo volume and you keep that because it is much higher quality. I think this is super important to mention considering you said a single comic that you bought cost you $5. Shonen jump in Japan usually costs about that much. We are talking about the difference between one story and like 10 stories lol. Not to mention it promotes sustainable practices. If the American comic book industry wants to adapt I think that specifically following this model of physical weekly release is super important. If you make these weekly compilation books too expensive once again people just won't buy them. Why would I spend $20 on a compilation book where I'm not super interested in like four of the five stories. It has to have that cheap entry price, because that encourage you to buy it even if you only like one story, and then you will read the other stories anyways. I just think that that is also important to note when talking about this business model because I think it's a genuinely integral part of why shonen jump works so well. It's cheap enough for a kid to buy on their own with like their allowance or lunch money or whatever. They probably won't have to ask their parents to buy it for them, because chances are even younger kids have $5 laying around somewhere. One more thing is I also think the reason people think comics are harder to get into than manga is because manga tends to be a single Creator effort. A character like Batman has so many different stories, constantly written by different writers. And that's just how it's always been in America, but in Japan it's almost always been one mangaka who writes the entire story, and usually draws pretty much the entire story too, aided really only by an editor and once they get bigger some assistants. One piece can be daunting because it's over a thousand chapters, but you still know that all of those chapters are going to be one cohesive story, so you can start at issue 1 and just keep going knowing that it's not going to like randomly change to a different art style or someone else writing it. These more creator-driven properties make it easier to get into stuff because that's the entire story. Of course there are a few exceptions, of course there have been reboots where people have maybe taken an old character and got the blessing of the creator and reimagine them. But for the most part if a creator creates something they're the only person that works on it. Which is very different from the American comic structure of constantly switching between writers and artists, it's a more character defined rather than creator defined system. I feel like that's also a barrier, people don't know where to start because in a new comic run you don't know if they are going to be drawing from sources that came out 50 years ago, or if way through the series that you're loving they're just going to change the guy writing it, or they get some random dude to write a single issue that creates ripples throughout the entire series. I think of the American comic book industry wants to do better they have to be not only better at selling their comics, but better at working with specific creators. They have to let you get to know the writers and artists behind these characters from places other than just their own personal Twitter that you look up because you are now hyper into the comics universe. Something that shonen jump does that I think is really important is at the end of their issues they will often have a creator Q&A section. All of the people currently writing books for shonen jump all comment on this one thing, some creators even have their own separate Q&A section where people would mail in questions they would answer them in the volumes. Connecting with the individual creators like this I think is integral to the success of manga. Yes it is a collaborative effort. But it's still a project created by one person, sometimes comic books can feel more like A bunch of people who aren't talking to each other all trying to work on the same project. Having a deeper connection with the comic book artists, alongside letting them have stronger creative control like most indie comics do I think it's a really important way to get people to connect with American comics more

[@chazjohannsen]

Thank you for approaching this issue with logic and reason. Too many comic KZbinrs focus on “Marvel Went Woke” as the reason Marvel is in the dumps.

[@TheSpiralCurse]

I never get that cause manga full of gay and trans characters sell gangbusters. There's even a joke about how quick Luffy snuffs it without the Trans community

[@RenceAsANoob]

@@TheSpiralCurse there's a big difference on how they handled gay characters. Marvel/DC literally shoves in to your face where the whole characters personality is either being gay, or whatever issues/uniqueness they have. While on the other hand, manga handles the characters very well. Examples I have with a something-something series that Marvel created, where they had characters/superheroes named as Snowflake and Safespace... seriously though... not only that, iirc, they're in an incestious relationship. Yeah, they're twins. Manga on the other hand, there's Bon Clay from One Piece, who's Luffy's BESTIE and helps him to save his brother after infiltrating Impel Down. There's also Ivankov, who's also gay and amazing character, not only that, he/she/they're really charismatic and saved Luffy from a certain death. And then there's Spider-Man Fake Red, where the fake Spider-Man's crush turns out to be lesbian, but did they made it a really big deal? No, but you're able to learn something about that certain character.

[@Bighomie39]

​@TheSpiralCurse holy crap you're right lmao. He wouldn't even get to Jaya without Bon Clay

[@pedrooginio]

@@RenceAsANoob This. Many western writers don't know how to write a character besides a very offensive stereotype. This gets worse when the audience (ie the consumers) are called names when they reject these offensive stories and characters.

[@WarriorBoy]

@@pedrooginio Are you implying that Manga and anime creators have never or don't commonly use offensive stereotypes?

[@ToonGrin]

One idea I've had for the longest time is bring back the old titles like: Action Comics, Detective Comics, Weird Worlds, Strange Adventures and turn those into anthologies with specific characters and treat it as a division of genres.

[@AbisexualCarpenter]

Here in Brazil comics where sold as anthologies but the publisher decided to start selling floppies instead and I stopped buying cause it’s too expensive

[@RichardPulfer]

Speaking as someone in a small town, the nearest comic shop is nearly 40 minutes away. I think floppies could be part of the solution if they came back to local grocery stores and pharmacies. I think new readers would pick up a book, especially if they have some familiarity with the characters from movies and TV shows. That said, the floppies would have to be **way** cheaper to really appeal to casual - and especially younger - readers.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Heck i didn't even get into comics until I was in my teenage years and I read ultimate Spiderman trades and thanks to the trades and graphic novels section at my local library and that's how i was able to get into the marvel universe while DC on the other i was able to read there stories thanks to there trades and hardcovers with there characters and now i am a comics fan today, the problem like you said with modern comics is that both companies refuse to adapt and advertise there books outside of the comic book shops themselves and advertise in movies tv shows or even there games which would actually help get people into there comics similar to what manga does with there audience with there anime but that's just my opinion on that subject matter as a whole. I also agree the comic book industry really needs to adapt to stop focusing on single issues and just tell the stories in graphic novels and tradepaperbacks could actually help the industry evolve and stop holding them back for nonsense like stupid gimmicks and events 24/7 but that's just my opinion.

[@delevingne8691]

Some Manga Recommendations: Vagabond, Jujutsu Kaisen, Blue Lock, Hunter X Hunter, Bleach , Sakamoto Days, Dandadan, Solo Leveling, Tokyo Ghoul, and Chainsaw Man.

[@BeNice108]

I wanted to be a comic fan, having grown up barely able to watch the animated shows/movies. The sheer number of reboots, copycat characters, multiverse, and other narrative junk makes these comic stories incredibly unappealing the more I experience them. I don't want infinite versions of a character. I want one good version of a character, because what's the point in sticking with them if they change what I like about these characters. Plus, the art for much of the actual comic books looks worse than just being generic. It's a real shame, because all the quirkiness and creativity that defies logic is right up my alley.

[@samtonnude941]

Pure cope

[@BeNice108]

@@samtonnude941 Huh? What I want I get, from every other franchise known to man. It's not unreasonable.

[@Comicbroe405]

Absolute banger video. Love all the points in it & the discussion that's been carried onto the comments has been great too.

[@samsaalfeld4273]

It does burn me to have to agree with you about single issues. I have a good collection going, but the more I bought the harder it is to store them. That’s why I’ve been going through my beloved collection and buying the trades instead, they tend to be easier to read and they look better on shelves. I’ve lost sleep over this, I swear

[@NANA-lt6hd]

I think knowing where to start reading comics is no longer a bigger issue as it used to be given that you have this nice thing called the internet to find out reading orders. I think the biggest problem with comics is that nothing ever sticks and buy that I mean character developments and conseqences of actions i.e. universes get destroyed and remade every event, characters grow only to revert to how they were before growing (i.e. Peter always on/off woth MJ, villains becoming reformed heroes only to go back to being heroes, constant retcons etc.). Readers nowadays don't want to invest the time and money into a character or story that will be made pointless by the next comic run or major event i.e. why should I read about Dr. Doom taking up the mantle of Iron Man and the adversity he's facing trying to be a hero given his past as a villain when MARVEL will just drop all the character growth just to revert him back to classic Dr. Doom.

[@zorandire3946]

I easily got into reading the brilliant Steel Ball Run manga by Hirohiko Araki due to his Part by part stories in Jojo's, I want to see some more independent comics boom in popularity in the more Western culture since i do prefer more western storytelling and artstyle.

[@JoaoSantos-bp5rm]

the way you said “make a book with batman, nightwing, batgirl” is the way comics are sold here Brazil, I started to know more characters and books because this way of distribution

[@emenefer]

I've always been interested in comics and comic culture, due to my pre-existing love for garage sales and thrift stores. But My whole life I had the problem you described- where tf do I start??? I buy comics now, but even still, I usually buy omnibuses. The only series I'm currently collecting separate issues for is Locke and Key, and that's mostly because it's such a short series that I feel confident I can grab them all.

[@MantasticHams]

Agreed on comic formatting, Comics should be switching to a graphic novel/tv streaming model (i say tv streaming because its essentially the same, you drop a whole arc at once, but it provides wiggle room for digital distribution, where you could release the graphic novel piecemeal over the course of a week or a month in order to extend its buzz and keep the fans all on the same page for longer so everyone can chat about each episode.). OR, alternately, to a short-form webcomic like model, where applicable. I think combining these models for the most popular properties like spiderman would make a lot of sense, you could have 1-2 mainline comics, say a spiderman that releases a graphic novel once a month, and then a rotating cast of monthly side novels starring characters that compliment the main storyline, then a bunch of weekly or even daily web comics that are non-vital but light and fun, and still in-universe, for the people who want a constant drip-feed.

[@antoniotorres1674]

The main problem with comics is one, that's the only real problem. They never end. There is no end to batman, to spider-man, manga does end and the way you keep reading is that there is always new stories. In american comics, they appreciate your support by rebooting, retconning or cancelling the story you were reading.

[@alexsere3061]

As someone who has read some comics here and there. It definitely helps when it's a non comic source. I read immortal hulk just bc a channel that works on horror decided to talk about it.

[@felipeaguena5289]

To me it's like this: Manga have stories with a beginning - middle - end. Comics float into this eternal limbo, doomed to be milked for ALL eternity, so why even care? That's what my take anyway

[@felipeaguena5289]

@ComicDrake__ is it a oenis,?

[@JamesLawner]

Also, when you talk about comics being like anthologies or like Shonen Jump, nowhere is this more prevalent than in Europe where they republish not only translated comics titles, but they compile them into anthology-like collections; it's like getting a collected edition every month! However, the ones they have in the UK have the most foul-smelling paper and ink stock used (at least from what I experienced like a decade ago), and the books' presentation resembled traditional single-issue comics, but the ones in France for example, resemble collected editions/graphic novels. I should also mention that typical collected editions do exist in Europe too.

[@iheanyihemeson5420]

Manga is more akin to indie comics shonen jumps like image comics. The stories are individually created shonen jump just publish it. I don't think we can use the manga model for western comics. The industries down to the bone are completely different.

[@stanislaviliev6305]

I swear for the whole time I've been subbed, only now did I saw your sub count, and wtf, you always felt like a bigger 2M+ youtuber

[@ComicDrake]

Nah, I've always been relatively small. 😅 I'm glad I seem like I have 2m of production value though!